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Old 10-16-2010, 10:46 AM   #1
Barty
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What's with the inverted screen when turning page?

Yes it's common with e-ink readers, but the duokan firmware shows it's not strictly necessary. Duokan will change page almost instantaneously without a full screen refresh. You can even set number of page changes without a full refresh. I set it to 100 and see no ill effect. Similarly, the Sony 650 will quickly flip through pages if you hold down your finger.

So it seems with a bit of clever programming, you can get rid of or at least minimize the stupid page turning screen flash. At least make it an option for people who hate the flash and don't mind having to deal with the occasional screen artifacts and manual refresh.
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:58 AM   #2
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The overwhelming majority of people find that, after using an eInk device for a short time, their brain simply filters out the flash after and they are no longer consciously aware of it, just as you probably aren't consciously aware of your vision going black every time that you blink.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:13 PM   #3
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I actually like the page flash. It lets me know I have turned the page so that I can go to the top again.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by krazy4katz View Post
I actually like the page flash. It lets me know I have turned the page so that I can go to the top again.
With one of the ebook apps on the iPad, it is possible to set page transition to zero. When I tried that, it confused me. One page of text looks just like another page of text. I don't know about other folk, but I NEED a signal that the page has turned and I can start reading from the top again. I now appreciate having a page swish or scroll, even though it isn't technically necessary on my iPad screen.

There has been criticism of the flash of eInk and the artificial page turns in ebook apps, but I think the brain does need some sort of signal. Maybe the programmers knew what they were doing.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:48 PM   #5
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At least make it an option for people who hate the flash and don't mind having to deal with the occasional screen artifacts and manual refresh.
The page transition isn't a fixed sequence as it will vary based on temperature and the individual characteristics of that particular eInk screen. The Amazon default will err on the side of caution to give you a clean display when reading an eBook. You'll notice that it does a significantly faster transition when it is using the browser but you'll also start to see faint artifacts from the previous image/page.

Having an option to alter this isn't a good idea for a mass market consumer product as people will set it to a very low number and then think the Kindle is broken. The whole aim is to get a product that is easy to use and has minimal opportunity for the end user to break it or at least appear to break it.

People already complain about the very faint artifacts you sometimes see when you initially open a eBook from the home screen so making it worse isn't going to be good.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:08 PM   #6
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you know, short of having stuff wired directly into your head (I know, probably coming some day), I don't know how much faster the page turn could be. it is certainly MUCH faster than pbooks as it is!
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:26 AM   #7
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I've always wondered this too - surely they could come up with an algorithm to just clear the pixels they need.

However, after a while I never seem to notice it anymore. The only time I notice is when I demo to other non-Kindle users and they point it out.
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:59 AM   #8
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I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure that this is how it works from what I have seen:

They can't "just clear the pixels they need"
You can see this when you go to the main menu and select with the joystick to underline stuff, there will be faint ghosting under previous items. Also, when you use the cursor with the dictionary to search for words, you can see everywhere the cursor has been previously before you turn the page. It's not very noticeable because it is between words. But imagine turning the page and having this all over the page, in the form of faint words. It could be annoying to some users.

What I have noticed on the DX, after dictionary definition is used, and then you clear it with back, they repop the bottom bar, and the contrast is wrong on the bottom bar gradient, because they only refresh the pixels they need. It would be better to just refresh the whole screen, but whatever, probably saves battery life.

Sure you can set the screen driver to not invert the entire page, and it will display the text, but there will be slight ghosting from previous text that was inverted (similar to using a pencil eraser to erase some text, it does not completely clear it)

The further outward you invert something, the more clear space of ghosting you will have on the screen, so it's easier just to invert the whole thing at once.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:42 AM   #9
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What curstpriest said.

You can't precisely set the darkness of an individual pixel if you're just changing that pixel by itself. The only way to get it uniform across the screen is to refresh the entire screen. The difference is only slight and less than the difference between greyscales on the screen but your eye is very good at noticing it.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:20 AM   #10
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Why can't they tell the screen to go completely white and then refill. This would allow people to know when the page was reset but not be as distracting as the full black that you see when it refreshes. It is much better on the K3 than any of the other previous versions due to the speedy refresh rate and I hardly notice it after a while but it was a little had to get used to for new users.

Relating to refresh... I noticed a lot of ghosting when using the web browser. It's like it was not completely refreshing. It will go away if I manually refresh. Sounds like a software issue.
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:26 AM   #11
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Because the way the technology works is the way it works. The way you want it to work is a backwards design.

Do you mean you want to read white text on a black background, and have white screen refreshes?

let's be serious. Just deal with the way the technology works.

It's just like with LDC tvs, the black point isn't black because the backlight lamp is always on illuminating the rest of the image. The pixels are only set to black and some light still shines through. It's a limitation of the technology. If you have a serious issue, you have 2 choices.

1) don't use the technology
2) become an engineer and improve it
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmonster View Post
Relating to refresh... I noticed a lot of ghosting when using the web browser. It's like it was not completely refreshing. It will go away if I manually refresh. Sounds like a software issue.
It isn't a software issue as it is intentional because they want a faster refresh. Forcing you to do the full refresh like when you're reading a book would be annoying if you're trying to scroll down a webpage.

With the current technology in eInk screens, you can't have everything. You either have fast refresh but the potential for artifacts or you have a slower full refresh with no artifacts. You can't have instant refresh with no artifacts at least not yet. The eInk screen inside the Kindle 3 and other latest generation eBook readers is the new eInk Pearl screen and that has significantly improved the refresh speed already.
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:17 PM   #13
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i confess i was a bit cagey with the whole inverted-ness of the screen before i bought my K3. whenever i watched demo videos about the device the whole "turning to weird black" thing looked... well... weird... and black.
but like HarryT says, your brain just doesn't notice it any more after prolonged use.
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:16 PM   #14
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I got used to the black flash very quickly. And I'd rather have the black flash than faint ghosts of the previous page's text. That would be like reading a book printed on really lousy paper, where the print on the other side of the page partially shows through. Except every book would be that way. Not my cup of tea, really.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:52 PM   #15
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GHOST IMAGES are what was on the screen immediately before the current page... residual leftovers from the polarised ink... yes? well.... (this is the kicker!!!)... the inverted screen has this purpose... the ghost of the page you are reading is the background of that page !!! i.e. the last page was the background of that current page, so the whole background of the current page is just one big ghost !!! (ingenius IMHO)

So... it flashes an inverted version of the new page (the new ghost, as opposed to the previous page of text being the ghost), and then it builds up the real current page with a couple of gradual refreshes

It's the only way that we can read a page without seeing ghost from the previous page of text... the device completely eliminates the previous page's text from the equation, so that all there is, is the current page of text, and the background of the current page of text to use as a ghost... I hope the person that came up with the idea got paid a lot... as I said before... ingenius

Last edited by Balerion; 10-21-2010 at 02:06 PM.
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