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Old 09-28-2010, 04:55 AM   #16
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But, man, isn't that a little abrasive?

And anyway, you shouldn't need a whole legal pad. That is why the traditional paper is perforated into tiny squares.



OK, I apologize.
Ouch. I obviously didn't think it through
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:22 AM   #17
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For office, reading and academic use I think you need four things to happen before you could consider tablets would replace most paper usage;

- longer time between recharging (better batteries or lower power devices)
- large format slates (A5 and A4)
- colour
- handwriting, drawing capture

eReaders tend to focus on 1 while Touch pads like the iPad address 2 and 3. Tablet PC's address 2, 3 and 4.

I have used a Tablet PC and a Sony Reader to avoid using paper for reading and office applications since 2006. I don't expect a single device to address all these issues anytime soon and plan on getting an A5 reader and an A4 Tablet PC/Slate this/next year.

I don't plan on getting iPad since it is not a good enough note taking solution, simply duplicates the web browsing/media playing I have on my Tablet PC/phone and is not well suited to an Enterprise IT environment. In any case Jobs has pronounced that stylus will not be supported so that rules out the iPad for me for the foreeable future.

I wonder what rationale the Saskatchewan government is using to justify acquiring lots of iPads that they didn't apply in the last couple of years when office tablet solutions were already available...
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by dapriuk View Post
For office, reading and academic use I think you need four things to happen before you could consider tablets would replace most paper usage;

- longer time between recharging (better batteries or lower power devices)
- large format slates (A5 and A4)
- colour
- handwriting, drawing capture

eReaders tend to focus on 1 while Touch pads like the iPad address 2 and 3. Tablet PC's address 2, 3 and 4.
Looking at this http://www.google.nl/images?q=ipad+paintings I'd say ipad pretty much has drawing covered...

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I don't plan on getting iPad since it is not a good enough note taking solution, simply duplicates the web browsing/media playing I have on my Tablet PC/phone and is not well suited to an Enterprise IT environment. In any case Jobs has pronounced that stylus will not be supported so that rules out the iPad for me for the foreeable future.
Meh..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CwJcpzJ4oo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YcSC4bvoYw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YcSC...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpeIjaiQjx8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IutB8sJ83Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VASX-yZd31U

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I wonder what rationale the Saskatchewan government is using to justify acquiring lots of iPads that they didn't apply in the last couple of years when office tablet solutions were already available...
That's a question you have to think over. What made the iPad so succesful? Apple fanboys only account for a couple of millions, so no matter what people tell you, that's not the reason.

Could it be the speed and usability? Or the apps available for it? Or the 10+ hours usage time? Or the 9,7"4:3-ratio IPS screen? instant on? Or maybe the combination of all these reasons? Don't know, don't care. I just knows it works better than my old tablet.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:33 AM   #19
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Interesting quotes from a Saskatchewan government official about using iPads in place of paper:



There's also a poll with question: "Do you think Tablets will replace paper?"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2...ace-paper.html
Twenty-five years ago a woman who worked with me wrote an article about our paperless office. Some months later another publication wanted to write about our paperless office and wanted photos. I was told to hide all the paper. I laughed and said that I was quite proud of what we'd done but we certainly weren't paperless. I refused to hide the paper for the photo op.

I also remember discussing how doing away with cash would change our society. I honestly, when I was young, thought we would have done away with cash by now. Last time I checked, I still had cash in my pocket. Please don't tell Washington.

No, tablet computers will not replace paper. I have carried 3x5 index cards in my shirt pocket for years to make short notes to myself. I've tried a variety of electronic replacements and have found nothing that comes close to the convenience and usability. Most days I have occasion to either give a card to someone else and loan them a pen so they can make a note or I make a note and give it to someone else. I wouldn't do that with any electronic device. Sometimes I draw a map on my 3x5 index card.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:22 AM   #20
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Its ALL going to replace paper.

Eink readers, TFT readers, ipads, and other cool devices which we have not even seen yet. The sky is the limit! Each of them is going to take a bite out of paper. And the effect is cumulative.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
Its ALL going to replace paper.

Eink readers, TFT readers, ipads, and other cool devices which we have not even seen yet. The sky is the limit! Each of them is going to take a bite out of paper. And the effect is cumulative.
Exactly. No one device is going to replace paper use... but all of them will. The process has already started everywhere (except the bathroom, duly noted).

And as our environment tightens up, and we realize how much we need to preserve trees and avoid landfilling and burning, we'll see that we already have an excellent alternative to environmental degradation... some will be forced to change to help preserve our planet. And then everyone else will feel the pressure--"Why aren't you helping to save your planet? Hmm?" --and more will change.

Unfortunately, the conservative and romantic urges of paper-lovers will eventually be relegated to using what paper is left to send out expensive party invitations, and wipe their backsides. Paper will become too precious to do anything else with it.
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Old 09-28-2010, 09:48 AM   #22
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Exactly. No one device is going to replace paper use... but all of them will. The process has already started everywhere (except the bathroom, duly noted).
. . .

Paper will become too precious to do anything else with it.
You mean you don't know how to use the three seashells?!
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Old 09-28-2010, 11:59 AM   #23
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Exactly. No one device is going to replace paper use... but all of them will. The process has already started everywhere (except the bathroom, duly noted).
Again I am not convinced. All of those devices are great.. but unless it is one device, it is not going to replace paper. Why not? Simple, for them to effectively replace paper the device has to be always with you. I can see having a smart phone or a small tablet with you all the time, but not all the devices you would need to to replace paper.

Steve, you mentioned white boards earlier... and I agree they are great, but they have their limitations. The first is that while many offices have them, many of the other places that business gets done (Like say the local diner) do not have them. Further, they don't even approach being a permanent record. In some respects, the napkin in the diner has advantages over the white board.

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And as our environment tightens up, and we realize how much we need to preserve trees and avoid landfilling and burning, we'll see that we already have an excellent alternative to environmental degradation... some will be forced to change to help preserve our planet. And then everyone else will feel the pressure--"Why aren't you helping to save your planet? Hmm?" --and more will change.
Of course, paper is usually made from farmed trees and can be recycled. I also get more junk mail in a day than I use productively in most weeks. So I doubt this is the killer for paper.

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Unfortunately, the conservative and romantic urges of paper-lovers will eventually be relegated to using what paper is left to send out expensive party invitations, and wipe their backsides. Paper will become too precious to do anything else with it.
I am not particularly romantic about paper. Shoot, the vast majority of books I read these days are ebooks! I just think that for some things, paper has big advantages.

--
Bill
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Old 09-28-2010, 12:09 PM   #24
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You mean you don't know how to use the three seashells?!
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Old 09-28-2010, 02:11 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by bill_mchale View Post
Again I am not convinced. All of those devices are great.. but unless it is one device, it is not going to replace paper. Why not? Simple, for them to effectively replace paper the device has to be always with you. I can see having a smart phone or a small tablet with you all the time, but not all the devices you would need to to replace paper.
Neither am I convinced. What... you do all the things you mentioned on one sheet of paper? Or who carries around big tablets, small tablets, organizers, post-it notes, napkins and TP all at once? No... you use multiple types of paper for different things, grabbing them as you need them. You can as easily carry around 1 or 2 devices to do the lion's share of your work, and maybe grab a third when needed on occasion. I don't expect people to do everything on a smartphone (something I always have with me), but to be smart about using other devices when needed.

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In some respects, the napkin in the diner has advantages over the white board.
The white board is a bit larger. And that's all I'll say comparing white boards to napkins! You could try working at work...

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Of course, paper is usually made from farmed trees and can be recycled. I also get more junk mail in a day than I use productively in most weeks. So I doubt this is the killer for paper.
"Farmed trees" used for paper are not sustainable, in that filling a farm with one crop ultimately damages the local environment. It takes decades to centuries to grow an adult tree after one is felled. It is incredibly environmentally damaging to process a tree into paper, with copious water use, the chemicals and bleaches used to produce the paper and subsequently dumped into the local watershed, and the carbon burned to drive that paper to your local store. Paper can only be recycled 2-3 times, before it is useless pulp (which is generally dumped in oceans or landfills at that point).

And yes, junk mail needs to be stopped, too. Check out some of the services that will stop junk mail from being delivered to you... do your part!

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I just think that for some things, paper has big advantages.
For some things, yes. Not for most of the things we daily apply it to. And not for any business-related uses at all, as far as I'm concerned. We can do better. Now that we have the means, we should do better.

As to doing new things: You get used to... what you want to get used to.
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Old 09-28-2010, 02:30 PM   #26
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Steve, you mentioned white boards earlier... and I agree they are great, but they have their limitations. The first is that while many offices have them, many of the other places that business gets done (Like say the local diner) do not have them. Further, they don't even approach being a permanent record. In some respects, the napkin in the diner has advantages over the white board.
That particular perception of the paper as "permanent record", as the final destination for "important information" might have shifted in favour of electronic version.

When was the last time that you have received good, old, handwritten, "snail-mail" letter? Or written one?

The similar logic is applied to our day-to-day work. These days, practically nobody is rushing to print stuff before the deadline... because we do not send paper documents any more. More and more, the "final" version of the document is its electronic version. It is up to the consumer to print it, if he wants to do so.

The pressure on paper as a medium lies in its inadequacy to serve as a "permanent record". Paper slips for credit card transactions... is it PRACTICAL to keep them all? Even when we want to keep the "paper trail", more and more we need to aggregate the important data and commit to paper just the essential stuff.

There is nothing wrong with the paper as medium... as long as you ignore how much of that stuff ends up in your shelves, on your tables or elsewhere in your vicinity. And how annoyed I get when I have to browse through a (dusty, always dusty) pile of "important stuff" that seemed worthy of printing some time ago... and now has to go to shredder first, then to recycle bin.
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Old 09-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #27
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Isn't there a big environmental impact from all these electronic devices? Surely the batteries alone would make James Lovelock have an apoplectic fit? Have any studies been done comparing the relative environmental impact of (presumably recycled/recyclable) paper versus electronic replacements?
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Old 09-28-2010, 02:37 PM   #28
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sorry, duplicate post
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:16 PM   #29
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Isn't there a big environmental impact from all these electronic devices? Surely the batteries alone would make James Lovelock have an apoplectic fit? Have any studies been done comparing the relative environmental impact of (presumably recycled/recyclable) paper versus electronic replacements?
Yes, there have been studies done. They indicate that although individual devices have a significant environmental impact in production, they make up for it by replacing reams of paper products with a greater environmental impact.

Further, electronic devices are capable of being almost wholly recycled (though, in many cases, this is still not being done), so have a greater potential usage lifetime than comparable amounts of paper (which, as I said, can only be recycled 2-3 times before being rendered useless pulp matter).

As devices become more energy efficient and adept at replacing more paper products (including even more environmentally-damaging glossy magazine content), the advantage becomes even more clear.

Here's a page that discusses it further, and provides a link to an excellent study (tho a bit old now) on the issue.
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:28 PM   #30
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For taking notes however (meetings, training, etc.), I am still waiting for the "real thing", not gimmicks. In the meantime I'll stick to my legal pad.
I use a LiveScribe smart pen for that. It still uses paper, but it's the special LiveScribe paper that has the little dots on it to tell the pen what page and position your writing to.

Once your notes are in the pen you can save them to PDF files. You can also capture audio that is occurring when you jot something down, and play it back from that point. The audio/image link doesn't work with PDFs though; you need the LiveScribe image format and software to do that.

If you buy an additional software package, it will also OCR your notes and output a TXT file. Since I haven't bought the software, I don't know how well that works.
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