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Old 10-11-2007, 10:39 AM   #46
NatCh
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I don't think it was his point, exactly, but I suppose it's true that most music isn't worth buying to any given person, but different people would have different ideas about which parts were worth buying.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:45 AM   #47
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I personally consider a lot of today's rap to be unsuitable for the kids they try to sell it to. Parents need to watch this. A lot of rap is offensive and racist. The problem is that we have censors for network TV. And they won't let things on TV that is a lot more tame then this rap. yet this rap is allowed on TV in for form of some awful video. It's not right.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:48 PM   #48
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Isn't that rather a subjective judgement? I'm an opera fan, but I'm well aware that many people can't stand it and certainly wouldn't consider it "worth buying". I can't stand "rap" music, but many people consider that worth buying. We all have different tastes, and I'm sure that most music that's commercially published is bought by somebody.
I should have stated it "IMHO".

But the point can also be made that a lot of the music that people download they would not buy anyway. Doesn't excuse it, but I don't believe RIAA's going to get any richer doing this.

BTW, I love opera. And people that listen to opera don't have it rattling out of their car trunks at the stoplights.

Dan <><
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:35 AM   #49
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But the point can also be made that a lot of the music that people download they would not buy anyway.
You're saying that if there was music someone wanted, and they couldn't get it for free, that they wouldn't buy it? Come on! If that were the case, there would be no music industry today!

I don't know a lot of people who indiscriminently download gigabytes of music that they've never heard, just hoping that they'll pull a few good ones from the pile. People selectively download what they want, generally based on hearing it first, or being recommended by a peer.

Before the internet, people occasionally experimented by buying new artists and albums, they taped off the radio, or they watched MTV. They were therefore exposed to a lot of music that they would not buy, because it didn't strike their fancy. I haven't gotten the impression that people use download services the same way. They generally cherry-pick their music, ignoring the stuff they don't like. And I think you'd find that most of those people, if denied that music for free, would buy it if they wanted it.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:39 AM   #50
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WHen Napster first came out, a lot of people shared incomplete CDs. Sales went up 6% because people downloaded tracks they liked and decided they either wanted the CD or another CD from the same artist. The RIAA managed to close down something that was actually making them money.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:10 AM   #51
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WHen Napster first came out, a lot of people shared incomplete CDs. Sales went up 6% because people downloaded tracks they liked and decided they either wanted the CD or another CD from the same artist. The RIAA managed to close down something that was actually making them money.
Isn't that a bit like saying that if a kid steals a Ford, they might like it so much that they'll go out and buy one?

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Old 10-14-2007, 10:15 AM   #52
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It's more like that they stole the hubcaps and liked them so much they bought the whole car.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:20 AM   #53
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Isn't that a bit like saying that if a kid steals a Ford, they might like it so much that they'll go out and buy one?

It's like try before you buy. And it worked. But the RIAA had their heads so far up their rear that they could not see this.
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Old 10-14-2007, 12:22 PM   #54
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So are you condoning stealing music, merely because some people who do so also buy legitimate music? Sorry, but to my mind, the crime is not removed or "legitimized" merely because of that.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:48 PM   #55
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HarryT, I think it would be worthwhile seeing if more people bought more music after downloading "free" (if "pirated") samples. Several people, including some researchers at places like Harvard, have made that claim. I happen to think it's a plausible claim, after reviewing the research. I suppose it still doesn't negate the fact that the people sharing files are breaking the law, but if the research is correct, the content publishers are really acting against their own interests by pursuing such laws.

Steve, with regard to people downloading songs they don't like, see John Scalzi's (or maybe it was Charlie Stross') discussion of the "gift-giving" economy of file sharing. Some people download content just so they can offer it to others.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:17 PM   #56
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Steve, with regard to people downloading songs they don't like, see John Scalzi's (or maybe it was Charlie Stross') discussion of the "gift-giving" economy of file sharing. Some people download content just so they can offer it to others.
Okay... I did read that, and I guess it's a fair point. However, I believe the people who do this are a small percentage of downloaders compared to people who are just trying to get the music they like. And I still question whether even the mass file offerers are downloading and converting material they don't like, and therefore wouldn't potentially buy. If that were the case, there would be as massive a catalog of non-pop music as popular music (mostly rock and rap) , and that is not the case.

Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 10-14-2007 at 07:19 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:01 PM   #57
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Isn't that a bit like saying that if a kid steals a Ford, they might like it so much that they'll go out and buy one?

Hey, Harry, I have a neighbor who plays music so loud that I can't help hearing it. I sure wish he would quite making me steal his music. Now I know why silence is golden - it cost more money to listen to it!
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:50 PM   #58
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So are you condoning stealing music, merely because some people who do so also buy legitimate music? Sorry, but to my mind, the crime is not removed or "legitimized" merely because of that.
I'm not saying it was legal, I'm saying that sales were up. So instead of learning from the Napster model and say offering sample songs available online at say a low bitrate of 64k they just shut down Napster. They didn't look at the big picture. The big picture was that it was not harming sales at all. It was increasing sales. They could have overlooked things that time while sales were up till sales started to drop and then go after Napster. But trying to shut down something that is making you money is rather silly.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:54 PM   #59
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So are you condoning stealing music, merely because some people who do so also buy legitimate music? Sorry, but to my mind, the crime is not removed or "legitimized" merely because of that.
Sounded more like an observation than a value judgment to me.
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Old 10-15-2007, 03:08 AM   #60
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Easy come easy go. Below is my take on the difference between stealing and buying.

I buy a CD, pay a fair amount of money for it. Too excited to wait to get home to listen so unwrap it in the car and stick it in the player to listen to on the way home. Once home listen to it again in the lounge while looking at the cover art and reading the credits and lyrics (with a magnifying glass these days). Over weeks I get to know the CD and play it when my mood feels right for it, sometimes years and even decades later.

Download a bunch of stuff for free on the net, forget what you have or where it comes from, have so much stuff you are never sure what is what. Never get to know any of it very well and it eventually it goes missing from your hard drive or where ever it was you stuck it.

Stealing is not just about respect for the artist but respect for yourself as well.
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