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Old 10-01-2007, 02:23 PM   #16
zdevil
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But, most average folks will want to read the latest bestseller or recent paperback. So yes, they'll need to deal with DRM and if the device won't allow them to do that, then it won't sell.
Still I am not that sure whether "most average folks will want to read the latest bestseller or recent paperback (with DRM added on their e-readers)" is true of reality. Maybe it is only for the geeky readers in this forum. But I for one am not one of this group. I won't deal with DRM and will just head straight to the bookstore to get a paper copy.

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Old 10-01-2007, 02:28 PM   #17
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Still I am not that sure whether "most average folks will want to read the latest bestseller or recent paperback (with DRM added on their e-readers)" is true of reality. Maybe it is only only the geeky readers in this forum. But I for one is not one of this group. I won't deal with DRM and just head straight to the bookstore to get a paper copy.
Most average folks won't even care about the DRm as long as they can plug and play. Plug the reader intot he computer, purchase the book, send the book to the reader and read. That's what they care about. It's us geeks here that care. And it's the geeks that might not care about the latest books on their readers. As an example, if I gave my mother a reader that could not read the books she likes then it would be useless or I would have to do all the conversions for her. So you see, a lot of people will want it to work seamlessly. DRM won't be be an issue to them unless they find out they cannot use their device to read books they want.

So what I am saying, is the V3 is going to tank.
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Old 10-01-2007, 02:48 PM   #18
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Is V3 going to tank or not? Maybe. I don't care, as long as I can read all the non-DRM books I want to. I have no religious attachment to an e-reader.
If I am Jinke I will definitely launch an update to support DRM format if it can bring in huge market profits. Why not?
But ...
Is there a necessary correlation between how an e-reader sells and how DRM is implemented on the e-reader? I don't think so, unless there is hard evidence other than mere speculations. How big is the market of DRM ebooks now?
E-readers still have chances to evolve, but imho DRM is bound to fail and is going to tank, thanks to its massive unpopularity.
True, most "non-geek" readers won't even know the existence of DRM. But nightmare begins as soon as these unfortunate users try to copy/backup/transfer these documents to other media and then try to access it. Look, I am not talking about the non-geek mothers and fathers out there. The reality is most people who have bought/will buy an e-reader are largely of the "geeky" type who are not at all computer illiterate.
Will many non-geek moms and dads end up using an e-reader rather than reading paper? It's such a remote possibility unless this kind of products has successfully infiltrated the geeky market. Other by now common consumer electronics like PCs, laptops, PDAs, smartphones, MP3/4 players (or PMPs for that matter) all go this way.

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Old 10-01-2007, 03:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zdevil View Post
Is V3 going to tank or not? Maybe. I don't care, as long as I can read all the non-DRM books I want to. I have no religious attachment to an e-reader.
If I am Jinke I will definitely launch an update to support DRM format if it can bring in huge market profits. Why not?
But ...
Is there a necessary correlation between how an e-reader sells and how DRM is implemented on the e-reader? I don't think so, unless there is hard evidence other than mere speculations. How big is the market of DRM ebooks now?
E-readers still have chances to evolve, but imho DRM is bound to fail and is going to tank, thanks to its massive unpopularity.
True, most "non-geek" readers won't even know the existence of DRM. But nightmare begins as soon as these unfortunate users try to copy/backup/transfer these documents to other media and then try to access it. Look, I am not talking about the non-geek mothers and fathers out there. The reality is most people who have bought/will buy an e-reader are largely of the "geeky" type who are not at all computer illiterate.
Will many non-geek moms and dads end up using an e-reader rather than reading paper? It's such a remote possibility unless this kind of products has successfully infiltrated the geeky market. Other by now common consumer electronics like PCs, laptops, PDAs, smartphones, MP3/4 players (or PMPs for that matter) all go this way.
I suspect we can argue the merits and demerits of DRM without any results for the rest of our lives without doing any good. DRM is basically required by most publishers and all major libraries supporting ebooks. DRM is in the OS I buy and the audible books I buy and in many programs and gps maps as well. Even my Bible study program is heavy into DRM. It seems to be a fact of life but some implementations are better than others.

A good implementation is not time limited (except for libraries and samples). can be migrated to follow-on devices (and supported on more than one device simultaneously) and can survive computer crashes. And in some cases it can even be sold or willed. Perhaps we could move the discussion to the best implementation and then finally to removing it in some cases.

Dale
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:47 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
I suspect we can argue the merits and demerits of DRM without any results for the rest of our lives without doing any good. DRM is basically required by most publishers and all major libraries supporting ebooks. DRM is in the OS I buy and the audible books I buy and in many programs and gps maps as well. Even my Bible study program is heavy into DRM. It seems to be a fact of life but some implementations are better than others.

A good implementation is not time limited (except for libraries and samples). can be migrated to follow-on devices (and supported on more than one device simultaneously) and can survive computer crashes. And in some cases it can even be sold or willed. Perhaps we could move the discussion to the best implementation and then finally to removing it in some cases.

Dale
DRM is bad, yucky, filthy and ultimate EVIL! Not only that, it practices unsafe sex with poxed, underage whores!

Be that as it may, I tend to think we're stuck with the task of tongue-kissing it in the hopes the toad will turn into a prince.

Derek
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zdevil View Post
Is V3 going to tank or not? Maybe. I don't care, as long as I can read all the non-DRM books I want to. I have no religious attachment to an e-reader.
If I am Jinke I will definitely launch an update to support DRM format if it can bring in huge market profits. Why not?
But ...
Is there a necessary correlation between how an e-reader sells and how DRM is implemented on the e-reader? I don't think so, unless there is hard evidence other than mere speculations. How big is the market of DRM ebooks now?
E-readers still have chances to evolve, but imho DRM is bound to fail and is going to tank, thanks to its massive unpopularity.
True, most "non-geek" readers won't even know the existence of DRM. But nightmare begins as soon as these unfortunate users try to copy/backup/transfer these documents to other media and then try to access it. Look, I am not talking about the non-geek mothers and fathers out there. The reality is most people who have bought/will buy an e-reader are largely of the "geeky" type who are not at all computer illiterate.
Will many non-geek moms and dads end up using an e-reader rather than reading paper? It's such a remote possibility unless this kind of products has successfully infiltrated the geeky market. Other by now common consumer electronics like PCs, laptops, PDAs, smartphones, MP3/4 players (or PMPs for that matter) all go this way.
Once I can get a Sony Reader from the Sony Rewards website, it is going to be given to my mother-in-law. Sony had an advert about giving a reader to your mother for mother's day. I think eventually you will find more readers being advertised to regular folk (non-geek types). I know for a fact that if I gave my mother a Sony Reader, she would be able to use it without a problem. But, if you gave my mother a V3, she'd be lost. It would be useless to her. She could not go online to puchase a book she wants to read and use the V3 to read it. So yes, I do honestly think that only so many will be sold and then it will tank. It won't only tank, it will atom bomb.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:27 PM   #22
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Keep dreaming.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:34 PM   #23
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Keep dreaming.
The problem here is th V3 is trying ot go for the geek market. And with other devices such as Sony, Cybook, iRex, that market is not as big as it might be. Now the V3 is not for regular folk. So that makes the available market rather small. Small enough to tank.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:12 PM   #24
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Let's face it. The e-reader itself is just for the geeks. How many people have you seen around you using an e-reader? For me I am the only user I have actually seen in my life.
The problem is you don't have to repeat a thousand times bashing the device you have never touched. No one will stop you being the most pious believer of the Sony Reader, but please don't make the V3 owner feel bad unnecessarily. I am very happy with my V3, and my life is just as happy without the damned DRM ebooks at all. I just find it very annoying to see this kind of biased and unjustified bashing.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:53 PM   #25
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The problem here is th V3 is trying ot go for the geek market. And with other devices such as Sony, Cybook, iRex, that market is not as big as it might be. Now the V3 is not for regular folk. So that makes the available market rather small. Small enough to tank.
My understanding is that HanLin is not going for the consumer market at all. They are willing to sell directly to us but they are primarily in business to sell the hardware and SDK to developers who will customize and market the product. Those are the people who would need to concern themselves with implementing the DRM and its attending business relationships.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:05 PM   #26
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Dear Sirs,

We have a year to sell Ukraine lBookV8/Hanlin V8. In 2007 we sold 12,500 pieces of old V8 model and began selling a new model V3. We are now intensively updating software lBOOK V3. Trying to meet the requirements of our market. Preparing for publication SDK and Linux OS kernel.

Now device lBOOK V3 reads:

txt. fb2, pdf, djvu, html, doc, wol, chm,

plans: rtf, css

V3 best adapted to the use of DRM. The design is SIM - card reader, which are keys protection code.

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Old 10-08-2007, 04:55 PM   #27
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To LVD: How can I buy from you

LVD: How can I buy the V3 from you? (I am in US)
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Old 10-08-2007, 05:58 PM   #28
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By Unfortunately, I will not be able to provide service support to the US.
I do not have the moral right to sell you a device without servesnyh support. This is not correct.

For example, I now have problems with the quality of li-ion batrey Nokia BL5 (www.lbook.com.ua). If I sold you the device, it was not able to quickly replace the battery. This is a violation of your rights.

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Old 10-09-2007, 12:10 AM   #29
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The problem here is th V3 is trying ot go for the geek market. And with other devices such as Sony, Cybook, iRex, that market is not as big as it might be. Now the V3 is not for regular folk. So that makes the available market rather small. Small enough to tank.
I don’t think you’re very clear about the market of eBook device. According to my knowledge, Jinke Hanlin is the largest developer and manufacturer of eBook device in the world, their annual sales volume is larger than the total amount of other companies in this industry. The other band eBook devices are all originating from Jinke company, e.g Panasonic Sigema Book. Cybook is the reference design of PVI, even PVI also purchase terminal software from Jinke. Sony only sell eBook device in USA, and the price of iRex ebook is too high to be accepted by the consumers. I know that Jinke has a developing and design team with over 150 persons, which master the advanced technology. I think Jinke is the leader of ePaper device. If you carefully watch the existing ebook devices, you will find that Sony’s device refer to the design of the number keys of Hanlin M2 produced in 2002, and iRex ‘s device also refer to the design of page turning knob of Hanlin S6 produced in 2002. Hanlin eBook is adding the Mobipoket DRM, and there are several new models are in the process of development. I believe that Hanlin is a good choice.
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Old 10-14-2007, 12:03 PM   #30
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With Mobipocket DRM as a format to read on the V3, then I do think it will sell. That would help quite a bit. I've read of a lot of cases where someone purchases an ebook reader and the spouse then likes it and wants one. It's not an uncommon situation.
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