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Old 07-26-2010, 10:59 AM   #61
Ea
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But I'm not sure about the hard-wired part. If by that you mean that morality is innate, then I don't know if I would agree. I think our morality has a lot to do with external factors. Education, upbringing, environment, society, Mother Goose fairy tales, etc. We're not taught to scream and cry as infants, but we do. That's hard-wired into us. But if we have to be taught morals and ethics, then clearly, it must not be something we're born with.
While I'm quite sure our upbringing forms the core of our beliefs, including morals, how we deal with it are also affected by our personality. For example, I am most comfortable with fairly clear-cut "rules" and that people follow them in a consistent manner. Hence I (try to) do that, too. So I don't think I'd pillage and plunder even if there were only a few days left. It would be wrong and I wouldn't do it simply because of that.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:22 PM   #62
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In such a scenario, after a few days, we'd all fall short of petrol, electrical power, food, water and all form of essential services as everyone quits but the more altruistic. This really leads to negative actions from those who panic.

Death is as easy to face as the last day of vacation when one goes back to work...
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:41 PM   #63
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Despite the relatively short period of time, ones only concern will be the survival of oneself and ones family. For some there will remain an altruistic trait, but even this cannot be guaranteed.
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While I'm quite sure our upbringing forms the core of our beliefs, including morals, how we deal with it are also affected by our personality. For example, I am most comfortable with fairly clear-cut "rules" and that people follow them in a consistent manner. Hence I (try to) do that, too. So I don't think I'd pillage and plunder even if there were only a few days left. It would be wrong and I wouldn't do it simply because of that.
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In such a scenario, after a few days, we'd all fall short of petrol, electrical power, food, water and all form of essential services as everyone quits but the more altruistic. This really leads to negative actions from those who panic.

Death is as easy to face as the last day of vacation when one goes back to work...

I might change my residence and become one of your neighbors
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:52 PM   #64
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I might change my residence and become one of your neighbors
Someone who's been a scout is never without resource. Add imagination and you can rewrite the world...

Dear beppe, I'd love to have you as a neighbor. But I fear it would kill my marriage as I like wine so much and that we'd be partying over the limits a little too often... If the end was near, I'd have no objection.
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:18 PM   #65
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Someone who's been a scout is never without resource. Add imagination and you can rewrite the world...

Dear beppe, I'd love to have you as a neighbor. But I fear it would kill my marriage as I like wine so much and that we'd be partying over the limits a little too often... If the end was near, I'd have no objection.
Bold one: Estote Parati. Be prepared. I never forgot the lessons.
Bold two: Unless your wife is a registered Prohibitionist, I don't see any problem whatsoever except the ever increasing cost of booze chez vous. Remember that I come from a place where this problem has been resolved once for all long time ago. Explanation on request,
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Old 07-26-2010, 04:20 PM   #66
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so that's an end of the world party, then ?
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:10 PM   #67
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Bring the friends, the wifes (unless registered Prohibitionists), the partners and we will have good time. What else? Maybe kenny will change his avatar. I can bring the wine.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:24 PM   #68
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What is better adapted than the festive use of wine in the first place to test and in the second place to train the character of a man, if care be taken in the use of it? What is there cheaper or more innocent.
-- Plato
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:59 PM   #69
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Quote:
AT LUNCHTIME
by Roger McGough


When the bus stopped suddenly
to avoid damaging
a mother and child in the road,
the younglady in the green hat sitting opposite,
was thrown across me,
and not being one to miss an opportunity
i started to make love.

At first, she resisted,
saying that it was too early in the morning,
and too soon after breakfast,
and anyway, she found me repulsive.
But when i explained that this being a nuclearage
the world was going to end at lunchtime,
she took off her green hat,
put her busticket into her pocket
and joined in the exercise.

The buspeople,
and there were many of them,
were shockedandsurprised,
and amusedandannoyed.
But when word got around
that the world was going to
end at lunchtime,
they put their pride in their pockets
with their bustickets
and made love one with the other.
And even the busconductor,
feeling left out,
climbed into the cab,
and struck up some sort of relationship with the driver.

That night,
on the bus coming home,
we were all a little embarrassed.
Especially me and the younglady in the green hat.
And we all started to say in different ways

how hasty and foolish we had been.
But then, always having been a bitofalad,
i stood up and said it was a pity
that the world didn't nearly end every lunchtime,
and that we could always pretend.
And then it happened . . .

Quick asa crash
we all changed partners,
and soon the bus was aquiver
with white, mothball bodies doing naughty things.

And the next day
and everyday
In everybus
In everystreet
In everytown
In everycountry

People pretended
that the world was coming to an end at lunchtime.
It still hasn't.
Although in a way it has.
The lack of "repercussions" doesn't necessarily yield bad results
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:02 PM   #70
Ea
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The lack of "repercussions" doesn't necessarily yield bad results
Now that was something else!
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:51 PM   #71
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What is better adapted than the festive use of wine in the first place to test and in the second place to train the character of a man, if care be taken in the use of it? What is there cheaper or more innocent.
-- Plato
Very positive values. I will join your secret society if you ever want to establish one.

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Old 07-26-2010, 07:44 PM   #72
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Definitely, no work.

First, I'd stock up on some ammuntion while my wife raided the grocery store. She would pay for the food and booze if possible, but if things had broken down too badly, we would loot with the rest of them.

Next, I'd get a generator. I wouldn't assume that the power would stay on.

Then, I'd start calling people and gathering with friends, maybe even get together as a tribe to fend off the crazy people. I'd see if we could crash with some friends who have a defensible place in Malibu...with a swimming pool and hot tub.

Then, I'd try to pass the time as pleasantly as possible. Maybe a Buffy the Vampire Slayer marathon. I'd eat like a horse and surely drink to immoderation.

I wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone else, because now their time is even more precious than before. Except in self-defense, of course. My morality comes more from empathy than any religious dogma, so basically, I'd still treat others as I would like to be treated.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:49 PM   #73
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Definitely, no work.

First, I'd stock up on some ammuntion while my wife raided the grocery store. She would pay for the food and booze if possible, but if things had broken down too badly, we would loot with the rest of them.

Next, I'd get a generator. I wouldn't assume that the power would stay on.

Then, I'd start calling people and gathering with friends, maybe even get together as a tribe to fend off the crazy people. I'd see if we could crash with some friends who have a defensible place in Malibu...with a swimming pool and hot tub.

Then, I'd try to pass the time as pleasantly as possible. Maybe a Buffy the Vampire Slayer marathon. I'd eat like a horse and surely drink to immoderation.

I wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone else, because now their time is even more precious than before. Except in self-defense, of course. My morality comes more from empathy than any religious dogma, so basically, I'd still treat others as I would like to be treated.
I think that's the key. Morality is not.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:07 PM   #74
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This seems like speculation. You can easily say that they're too tired to do anything. I think where armies are undisciplined (no punishment), or respect for the non-combatant or combatant is non-existent many will do what they want.

The worst rapists in a modern army were probably the Russians after the fall of Germany. I'm sure the Germans did some nasty things. The Japanese were pretty horrible.

Many will not becuase many have a moral outlook on life. Some becuase they don't like to hurt people. Almost everybody likes to think of themselves, whether religious or not, as good people.

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True, but there is also a different reason behind it. Many soldiers who are on the front lines have high stress levels due to war. After a few days soldiers on the front line survive by following the commands that have been hammered in during their combat training. How your actions will be after you have been true days of near-dead are different than a normal person who knows that the end of the world is near. I doubt that stress levels will be the same, because knowing the world will end is more liberating for the mind I believe (since you know you can't avoid the unavoidable).

Last edited by nguirado; 07-27-2010 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:18 PM   #75
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Even with repercussions, a lot of people dont have morals.
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