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Old 11-02-2012, 10:26 PM   #1
Barty
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Your rights and cloud storage

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/1...loud-computing

<<
The government maintains that Mr. Goodwin lost his property rights in his data by storing it on a cloud computing service.* Specifically, the government argues that both the contract between Megaupload and Mr. Goodwin (a standard cloud computing contract) and the contract between Megaupload and the server host, Carpathia (also a standard agreement), "likely limit any property interest he may have" in his data.* (Page 4)
>>

Remember kids, You should have no expectation of safety or privacy for any data you put on the cloud.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:22 PM   #2
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I've been saying this since 2009. How is this new?
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:39 PM   #3
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1- If it's on the internet, anybody can get to it.
2- If it's on the internet, it's out there forever. Or until the asteroid hits.

No privacy, no security, no do-overs.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:17 AM   #4
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It will be interesting to see if Google, Amazon and Apple to mention a few big corporations make a move to have legislation passed to make it safer for "their customers" for they will want it to seem very secure in order to encourage people to buy into their cloud structures and their machines with little internal memory and no removable memory.

I fly in the clouds but I sure don't trust any of them.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:38 AM   #5
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...I fly in the clouds but I sure don't trust any of them.
^This
+1
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by teh603 View Post
I've been saying this since 2009. How is this new?
I'm sure the EFF has been saying it since before then.

I agree it isn't new, but:

1) People don't necessarily realize that putting data on a cloud service reduces their legal protections.

2) It's still not a good thing for those services to receive less protection.

3) FYI Goodwin did have a local copy, but claims his hard drive failed, thus the data was lost.

That said, the EFF is asking for a summary judgment, and the Feds are saying they want a narrow hearing so Goodwin can prove his interest.

I also don't see any indications in the brief that indicate they've access the data. I.e. as per usual, the EFF is a bit hysterical in its claims.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #7
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Things like this bear repeating... At least once a year.
(Not too often, though.)
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:13 PM   #8
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It's unfortunate that you can lose rights by outsourcing the holding of your data; that would be like losing a right to your money because you held it at a bank rather than in a sealed baggy in your toilet tank.

I personally use cloud storage frequently to back up my data, but I also encrypt the data; it's not a perfect solution, but the redundancy for me outweighs the other risks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
I also don't see any indications in the brief that indicate they've access the data. I.e. as per usual, the EFF is a bit hysterical in its claims.
It's not that hysterical since the government admitted to going through the seized Megaupload data to see if there was any infringing files in Goodwin's account they could use to call into question his credibility; so they specifically went into his data to support their position, even though Goodwin isn't the target of either a criminal or civil investigation, he's just affected by the government's seizure of property.

Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 11-03-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #9
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I fly in the clouds but I sure don't trust any of them.
Whiteout conditions
(been there, definitely NOT fun
VFR Hang glider pilot)
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by teh603 View Post
I've been saying this since 2009. How is this new?
Youngsters.

Some of us old warhorses have been waving the banner since the rise of the mainframes in the late 60's/early 70's. Today it is about the "cloud" but back then it was with the IT depts who were the ones who "owned" the data stored in their centers. The words may have changed but the concepts are the same.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:55 PM   #11
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You have no rights if you put your property in the hands of someone else who owns those clouds.

If you want to keep control of YOUR property, keep it in YOUR possession! Portable storage space is very cheap these days and comes in all different sizes and prices.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #12
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My reading is slightly different: the issue is with the terms of service that people are agreeing to. The "cloud" is just a buzzword that has no real meaning. In this case, the law is defined by a contractual relationship (which is biased towards the vendor).

If you really want some sort of protection over your data, you better make sure that you are entering a contract that protects your rights to that data.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:14 PM   #13
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Youngsters.

The words may have changed but the concepts are the same.
The data centers are still refrigerated glasshouses. Main difference is they now house clusters of PC servers instead of VAXes and 360's that weren't XBOXes.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #14
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If you really want some sort of protection over your data, you better make sure that you are entering a contract that protects your rights to that data.
Contracts won't really help you if you or the vendor do not break it, but instead the government steps in and confiscates all data held by your vendor. I say won't really because in theory a vendor could write protection/compensation clauses in, however i doubt any vendor would offer such a clause because they have no control or ability to mitigate such a situation.

I suppose what should happen is goodwin sues megaupload, megaupload sues carpatihia and in return carpathia would need to sue the US government.

Really the situation has been created by the government going beyond a fine grain targetted clamp down and instead pulled a lot of innocent people into the mix.

The government created this mess with a wide ranging confiscation, they shoud foot the bill for providing access back to individuals who claim their accounts are not holding illegal material (which i see no problem with them doing so, as their t&c of using various cloud sevices likely said you cannot use it for storing illegal content). Even that is a bad situation, but if you're files are mistakenly caught up in a criminal investigation, it's unfortunate, but giving up some privacy to get them back may be the only option.

That said, i hope the fbi are required to prove that the majority of held content really is illegal, otherwise their original confiscation should be brought into question as been too widely scoped.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
You have no rights if you put your property in the hands of someone else who owns those clouds.

If you want to keep control of YOUR property, keep it in YOUR possession! Portable storage space is very cheap these days and comes in all different sizes and prices.
does this apply to my bank account as well? [emphasis mine]

Last edited by Ravensknight; 11-04-2012 at 02:53 PM. Reason: bad coding
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