Classics on Fictionwise.com

[ahi]

Are classics on Fictionwise.com as garbage as the sample text suggests? (i.e.: Barely formatted unproofread Project Gutenberg dumps.)

I notice that some larger books are available in so many pieces that the cost starts to approach $20, but the sample gives the impression one might as well get the .txt for PG's own website for free.

Do I have the right impression?

- Ahi

[doreenjoy]

I've found the classics at FW to be hit or miss.

Have you checked the uploads here on Mobile Read? I think you'll find them to be the best-formatted books anywhere, and they're free.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

I've found the classics at FW to be hit or miss.

Have you checked the uploads here on Mobile Read? I think you'll find them to be the best-formatted books anywhere, and they're free.

Definately the best advice. Before I found Mobile Read I had downloaded quite a few free classics from Gutenberg and the like. I have since replaced pretty much all of these with the same but better formatted from here.

This is not to denigrate Gutenberg etc by the way. Their aim is to get as many books as possible on-line as quickly as possible. That's an entirely laudable aim. If sites such as Mobile Read can then use those as a starting point for creating 'nicer' versions then that's an equally laudable, if slightly different, aim.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Definately the best advice. Before I found Mobile Read I had downloaded quite a few free classics from Gutenberg and the like. I have since replaced pretty much all of these with the same but better formatted from here.

This is not to denigrate Gutenberg etc by the way. Their aim is to get as many books as possible on-line as quickly as possible. That's an entirely laudable aim. If sites such as Mobile Read can then use those as a starting point for creating 'nicer' versions then that's an equally laudable, if slightly different, aim.

Actually, since they started using Distributed Proofreaders, I think there is every reason to assume their etexts have become very high quality. The problem is that a lot of the good stuff predates DP, and is thus of also hit-and-miss quality.

What license do the books available at MobileRead fall under? I presume commercial use is prohibited.

- Ahi

[pdurrant]

The stuff that is public domain is public domain. The stuff that isn't, isn't.

Fixing typos, smartening (or straightening) quotes, or adding an ebook wrapper doesn't give the editor a new copyright.

Perhaps an official response will be along shortly.

Originally Posted by ahi

Actually, since they started using Distributed Proofreaders, I think there is every reason to assume their etexts have become very high quality. The problem is that a lot of the good stuff predates DP, and is thus of also hit-and-miss quality.

What license do the books available at MobileRead fall under? I presume commercial use is prohibited.

- Ahi

[ahi]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The stuff that is public domain is public domain. The stuff that isn't, isn't.

Fixing typos, smartening (or straightening) quotes, or adding an ebook wrapper doesn't give the editor a new copyright.

Perhaps an official response will be along shortly.

I wholeheartedly agree, but I'm not convinced the law is clear-cut on this, and even if it is, there are a hell of a lot of (in my mind gravely unscrupulous) publishers out there that do their best to suggest/pretend/imply otherwise.

- Ahi

[pshrynk]

Book uploads at MobileRead are either in the PD, or are uploaded under a CC license. Commercial use of CC licensed products is not allowed. Commercial use of the PD books here might be considered tacky, but probably not illegal.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Book uploads at MobileRead are either in the PD, or are uploaded under a CC license. Commercial use of CC licensed products is not allowed. Commercial use of the PD books here might be considered tacky, but probably not illegal.

1. Do people explicitly affirm this during the upload process? Or might some uploaders be under the impression that they hold some copyright to their uploaded public domain works?

2. How might commercial use be made less tacky or altogether non-tacky? I have published a corrected/restored edition of Sun Tzu's Art of War (the public domain Lionel Giles translation) and would probably have had an easier time had I started from a source not in as poor a shape as the Project Gutenberg etext is.

- Ahi

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by ahi

1. Do people explicitly affirm this during the upload process? Or might some uploaders be under the impression that they hold some copyright to their uploaded public domain works?

2. How might commercial use be made less tacky or altogether non-tacky? I have published a corrected/restored edition of Sun Tzu's Art of War (the public domain Lionel Giles translation) and would probably have had an easier time had I started from a source not in as poor a shape as the Project Gutenberg etext is.

- Ahi

If it is CC license, then the protocol has been to state as such in the blurb that you give as you upload.

I suppose that if you were to ask the uploader if they would be cool with your using theirj original as the base for your effort, then that would be less tacky.

[ahi]

Good to know.

Having said that, because of the possibility of perception of tackiness (of which I was well aware even prior to its explicit mention) I have no plans at this time to use anything from mobileread as a source material for any of my work.

Just wanted to know. Definitely will consult with the uploader, if ever I find something I'd like to take and work with.

Thanks, all for both the advice and the clarifications!

- Ahi

[HarryT]

I'd be damned annoyed if anyone were to commercially "publish" any of the books that I've uploaded here, and especially the ones I've spent hundreds of hour proof-reading. I did that for people to enjoy for free, not for someone else to make money from.

I make not be able to stop them from doing so, but I'd be extremely angry if anyone were to do it.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'd be damned annoyed if anyone were to commercially "publish" any of the books that I've uploaded here, and especially the ones I've spent hundreds of hour proof-reading. I did that for people to enjoy for free, not for someone else to make money from.

I make not be able to stop them from doing so, but I'd be extremely angry if anyone were to do it.

You probably could stop them, Harry. You could threaten litigation.

If that didn't work, you could actually go so far as to retain a lawyer and have them send out a letter to the individual/company. As I noted, the law around these sort of things is murky enough that all but extremely large companies would be better off avoiding trouble than trying to win (or lose) precedent-setting lawsuits.

Having said that, Harry, I've faced similar anger before from people that feel I've done similar injustice to Project Gutenberg by my edition of The Art of War. A book that is abundantly available in a myriad very poor print editions, some poor enough to skirt consumer-fraud in my mind, precisely because somebody decided to just "publish" it, instead of actually putting in at least the bare-minimum effort necessary to publish it in good faith and in acceptable quality.

Part of me wonders if this is because of our general societal attitude that taking something free and using it to make money is somehow questionable (whether it is done by a multi-million dollar international media conglomerate or a father of two whose one-day-to-come profits will primarily support his family)... leaving only people with deficient scruples doing it, instead of those, who would find their conscience pressing them to ensure the end-product is worth their purchase-price.

- Ahi

Ps.: In case your post, Harry, was meant to be a hint-hint for me... I'll point out that I already wrote in my preceding post: "Definitely will consult with the uploader, if ever I find something I'd like to take and work with."

[HarryT]

No, Ahi, it certainly wasn't aimed at you personally. I know that you're a decent guy and would always ask permission.

[DixieGal]

This exact scenario happened here 6 or 9 months ago. I distinctly remember Patricia being livid because some doofus was selling her uploaded books on eBay, along with many of the other uploaders' books. I think it took Alex all of 15 minutes to have them taken down and the seller's account closed.

The catch was that the doofus didn't even bother to try to take out the MR blurb. It was just copy-n-paste, or maybe they were selling hard copies? Can't quite remember.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

This exact scenario happened here 6 or 9 months ago. I distinctly remember Patricia being livid because some doofus was selling her uploaded books on eBay, along with many of the other uploaders' books. I think it took Alex all of 15 minutes to have them taken down and the seller's account closed.

The catch was that the doofus didn't even bother to try to take out the MR blurb. It was just copy-n-paste, or maybe they were selling hard copies? Can't quite remember.

The "doofus" sounds unscrupulous, but on the other hand, as Pshrynk pointed out:

Fixing typos, smartening (or straightening) quotes, or adding an ebook wrapper doesn't give the editor a new copyright.

The reason the product in question deserved to be taken down has nothing to do with copyright, and probably nothing to do with any law at all unless MobileRead has actually registered its name as a trademark.