Wish I could see the future (aka Newbie making a choice)

[texasnightowl]

So, I typed out a really, really, really long post before...that kinda summarizes all my thoughts and everything I think I've learned over the past few days of reading posts here. But then I realized that my questions and concerns come down to just a couple of points.

1. Formats
2. Being "Future Proof"

And really, the 2 go together. I don't want to spend say $1000-1500 or more in the next 2 years only to find I can't read my purchases if I switch to a new reader at the end of that time.

So what I think that means is I'm about to choose between the Sony and the Cybook.

Sony PRS-505
Yeah, it has a proprietary format. But, if I buy this one, I'm going into ownership knowing that I don't plan to buy any BBeB proprietary books. I'll buy LIT, MOBI/PRC or other and convert them (ConvertLit and found the mobi python files). This isn't so hard to swallow given the Calibre and Book Designer tools. And the price and aesthetics are good.

Amazon Kindle
Proprietary format. Problem being that given the sheer number of books available from Amazon's site, I *would* want to buy them (unlike with Sony). BUT, I can't read them on my PC and let's say 2 years from now I want to move to a different reader. As things stand right now, I lose these books. As far as I've been able to tell, DRM'd Kindle files have no way of being converted to another format. And, the price and aesthetics suck.

Bookeen Cybook
Uses Mobi...the "de facto" standard. And I managed to find the scripts that would allow me to de-drm for "future proofing". MobiPocket Creator would allow me to convert other files for use on it. Price sucks, but aesthetics are OK.

So, I think my choices are in this order: Sony, Cybook, Kindle.

The unknowns are:

Is Amazon Kindle going to take over the world?
How soon will someone figure out how to de-DRM Amazon Kindle files?

The other questions I want feedback on:
Which device do you own and what format do you primarily download?
And if you are a Kindle owner - how concerned are you about the inability to use those files on any other device in the future.

If your primary concern was not having to rebuild/replace your collection as time goes by, which format and reader would you choose for today?

If I go with the Cybook and adopt MOBI, will it be around for the next 30-40 years?

FWIW, I am a re-reader. I'm only in my mid 30's, but I have some books with me that I've had since I was in middle school. They've been thru multiple moves in at least 5 states. And I recently helped my parents move. They have boxes and boxes of books too...ebooks would have been much easier on the back!

[jerryleejr]

Let's rephrase a little, What if there was a universal format, Which device would you choose? If you were going for mostly non-DRM books there are a variety of conversion methods available for which ever Reader you have. That is if you can not find it natively. Also I believe that if a universal format is adopted most Devices should release a firmware update to allow the transition and if say you have bought DRM Books from let's say Sony and they offer that same title at a later date in the new format, You should be able to re-download it for a minimal charge if not Fee. I really think your first consideration should be Content Which device will allow you to read what you want without any conversion, Next you should look at features what can you live with or without? There is alot of useful information on the forum and I am sure others will jump in with varying opinions but the main focus should be what will fit your needs now. Readers are in the infancy stage at this point and since my crystal ball is currently in the shop I would say get to reading and in a couple years things may iron themselves out.

JJ

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by texasnightowl

Is Amazon Kindle going to take over the world?

Clearly not, given that 95% of the world can't buy it.

If I go with the Cybook and adopt MOBI, will it be around for the next 30-40 years?

The question is rather irrevelent. Mobi files are just a wrapper around HTML, and there will be tools around to convert HTML to pretty much any reading format for the foreseeable future, certainly.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by texasnightowl

Amazon Kindle
Proprietary format. Problem being that given the sheer number of books available from Amazon's site, I *would* want to buy them (unlike with Sony). BUT, I can't read them on my PC and let's say 2 years from now I want to move to a different reader. As things stand right now, I lose these books. As far as I've been able to tell, DRM'd Kindle files have no way of being converted to another format.

Almost all Kindle ebooks are in the AZW format, which is essentially DRMed MOBI, and crackable by mobidedrm. A minority of Kindle ebooks are in the TOPAZ format (typically with extension .azw1), which is not currently convertible to anything else.

The most future proof of the current crackable formats (LIT, MOBI/AZW, eReader) is LIT, because it is is very thin wrapper around the OEB ebook standard. MOBI is also based on OEB, but it does more processing of the input OEB document than LIT does. However, MOBI and eReader may be good enough in most cases because all you typically need is the underlying HTML. Note that if you go the "always format shift" route, any of the current ebook readers, including those without DRM support, are candidates.

[Patricia]

Yes, I've got a Sony. I save all my books in html, so that I change change formats if I change devices.

[texasnightowl]

Originally Posted by jerryleejr

Let's rephrase a little, What if there was a universal format, Which device would you choose?

Sony. Best price. Nice looking. Easily available. Don't have to ship to France for warranty issues. Not 1st gen. hardware.

Originally Posted by jerryleejr

I really think your first consideration should be Content Which device will allow you to read what you want without any conversion, Next you should look at features what can you live with or without?

Kindle or Cybook.

As for features...I don't need a dictionary or wifi or the ability to annotate. I just want to read.

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Almost all Kindle ebooks are in the AZW format, which is essentially DRMed MOBI, and crackable by mobidedrm. A minority of Kindle ebooks are in the TOPAZ format (typically with extension .azw1), which is not currently convertible to anything else.

Really? So the mobidedrm script will work on AZW files? Cool. I did a test with it on a Secure Mobi book from Fictionwise but didn't realize the script would work on AZW files too.

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Note that if you go the "always format shift" route, any of the current ebook readers, including those without DRM support, are candidates.

Yeah, which is probably part of my indecision.

I really wish readers were under $200...that is a price point at which I would just take a jump without overthinking it.

As for the Kindle, I probably would go for it despite the "proprietary mobi format" if it a) wasn't $359 and b) was less ugly. I have seen one in person...granted for only a couple minutes...but a friend bought one and brought it into work and I couldn't believe how cheap and ugly it seemed. Maybe it grows on you?

[jerryleejr]

Yeah, which is probably part of my indecision.

I really wish readers were under $200...that is a price point at which I would just take a jump without overthinking it.

As for the Kindle, I probably would go for it despite the "proprietary mobi format" if it a) wasn't $359 and b) was less ugly. I have seen one in person...granted for only a couple minutes...but a friend bought one and brought it into work and I couldn't believe how cheap and ugly it seemed. Maybe it grows on you?

Same here that is why the Sony looks really good to me!

JJ

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by texasnightowl

Sony. Best price. Nice looking. Easily available. Don't have to ship to France for warranty issues. Not 1st gen. hardware.



Kindle or Cybook.

As for features...I don't need a dictionary or wifi or the ability to annotate. I just want to read.




Really? So the mobidedrm script will work on AZW files? Cool. I did a test with it on a Secure Mobi book from Fictionwise but didn't realize the script would work on AZW files too.



Yeah, which is probably part of my indecision.

I really wish readers were under $200...that is a price point at which I would just take a jump without overthinking it.

As for the Kindle, I probably would go for it despite the "proprietary mobi format" if it a) wasn't $359 and b) was less ugly. I have seen one in person...granted for only a couple minutes...but a friend bought one and brought it into work and I couldn't believe how cheap and ugly it seemed. Maybe it grows on you?

Ummmm no. If you think something is "cheap" and "ugly" ... then it is unlikely that it will grow on you. Since your personal tastes do not run toward the Kindle, by all means do not buy one. You will only sit around second guessing yourself, no matter what happens in the future.

So .... now that a Kindle is NOT among your choices ... it should be easier to pick something you like.

(Me ... I find the Kindle quite elegant and beautiful, so I love it. Just plain love it!!)

[jerryleejr]

As for the Kindle, I probably would go for it despite the "proprietary mobi format" if it a) wasn't $359 and b) was less ugly. I have seen one in person...granted for only a couple minutes...but a friend bought one and brought it into work and I couldn't believe how cheap and ugly it seemed. Maybe it grows on you?

DG any thoughts?? Wait for it....

[texasnightowl]

Speaking of features...of the 3, which has the most "organization" options available...ie. the ability to group books by Author, Series, etc., maybe in folders?

[Elsi]

Where do you live in Texas?

1) I live near DFW and would be willing to meet you with a Kindle and a Sony PRS 505 to show off.

2) On August 23, we'll hold a MobileRead gathering in Austin. Come meet the gang and see whatever devices people bring. I, for one, would love to see a book on an iPhone or iTouch -- not that I'm going to get one of those.

[JSWolf]

The Hanlain V3 is supposedly going to add Mobipcoket support sometime soon. And if they do, you'll have DRM Mobipocket with proper folder support there.

Also Sony is going to be adding ePub support to the 505 so that will help with ePub books being sold now and in the future. So it's a hard choice. The conversion tools for the 505 make it's like outlast the Sony eBook store.

The Gen3, I am reading about problems with firmware updates. Wait till they get sorted.

The Kindle will read non-DRM Mobipocket format.

Then there is the Astak ones coming out with eReader or Mobipocket using 6" and 9.7" screens.

[iterati]

You really can't know what formats will be available in 20-30 years, how the world will be (or even if still there is a world to that).
Your best bet is PLAIN TEXT; that doesn't necessarily mean unstructured text but text that is made up from printable characters that can be read and understood by people, like xml, html and so on. Generally if you open a file with a simple text editor (notepad for windows) and the text is readable then you are all good. Formats like fb2, epub, html are OK.

Anyway, it's great to plan 30 years ahead if it's about for example a house but for such a device better focus to present (in 30 years we'll probably have true AI and computing will change a lot).

[iterati]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The Hanlain V3 is supposedly going to add Mobipcoket support sometime soon. And if they do, you'll have DRM Mobipocket with proper folder support there.

Already did. I've tested it and both DRM-free & DRM infected mobi files work. Not extremely impressed, fb2 is my preferred format. It supports ePub as well.

[texasnightowl]

Originally Posted by Elsi

Where do you live in Texas?

1) I live near DFW and would be willing to meet you with a Kindle and a Sony PRS 505 to show off.

2) On August 23, we'll hold a MobileRead gathering in Austin. Come meet the gang and see whatever devices people bring. I, for one, would love to see a book on an iPhone or iTouch -- not that I'm going to get one of those.

Elsi - Thanks for the offer! But actually, I don't live in Texas currently. I am in North Carolina right now and though I plan to get back to Texas eventually, it hasn't happened yet except for vacations to see my folks. But thanks!