A Brother's Price by Wen Spencer

GlenBarrington · 12-13-2016, 05:07 PM

This is a novel of gender role reversal, and I guess we could say, of court politics. But instead of a few characters reversing our culture's gender roles, it is an entire culture that reverses the roles.

In this world, men are rare and valuable, so women form 'families' to share the men available to them. Generally there is one man for however many adult "Sisters" not related to him. While the founding groups of 'sisters' may not have started out as blood relatives, the families over time do become true genetic relation. Families who have historically been able to produce male children gain status, influence and are considered at least to be on the path to being wealthy.

The men, however aren't in the catbird seat here. They are virtual prisoners of their families from the moment they are born till they die and rarely leave their homes. Because there are so few men, they can't be risked in dangerous occupations. The early death of a husband before his children, male or female could secure suitable spouses could mean the death of an entire family, and certainly it would mean a loss of wealth, prestige, and influence.

Men are largely uneducated, work as homemakers, and are pretty much sold and traded between families. I got the feeling that the culture was largely lifted from that of the ancient Greeks, though this culture was more technologically advanced.

In the beginning, even though I have been reading Science Fiction and Fantasy for over 50 years, and consider myself reasonably skillful in making the mental and emotional shifts required by that genre, I found myself almost quitting the book. However, I'm glad I didn't!

My sense of disorientation and 'wrongness' was pretty strong at first. Stuff like this shouldn't happen to a strong male character. I had to read almost a third of the book to really 'get into' the situation of the novel. And there ARE some minor flaws in the book that didn't help, though I'll point them out in a bit.

This character is a young man from a reasonably prosperous, but backwater family of no particular influence. He is about to come of age and facing dim and dismal marriage prospects; when he happens to save a princess of the realm. This changes his life and propels his family into the always dangerous world of court intrigue for which they are un prepared and unwilling to enter in to because of who the recently deceased father of the family was. They are backwater for a reason.

As I said in a prior paragraph, there are some flaws, and they kept it from getting my full buy in.

Fist and biggest in my mind is why does this male shortage only happen to humans? Why aren't the other animals affected? Was it a disease? Are the people of the story not really humans but some similar species? It wasn't ever explained or even addressed. And no one even wonders aloud why this discrepancy even exists.

Another flaw that I chose to overlook because I thought it would get in the way of the story, is that in such a world women would evolve to be larger and stronger, while the men would become smaller and weaker. The men are physically weak, most of the time (but not always), while the women aren't really described at all.

Oddly, the young man is able to fight off the attackers of the princess and then carry her BACK to his house. That seems a flaw in the story logic to me.

I think this weakens the story, in our world, where men are expected to do the fighting and the dangerous jobs, men are still VERY much aware of other men's physical size and ability to do violence. The author might have two women meeting for the first time, think "she seems strong and capable", but I think it far more likely women in this world would notice if the other woman is a leftie or a rightie, any limps or weakness in the limbs. that sort of thing.

Now this last 'flaw' might have been overlooked on purpose since the author, Wen Spencer couldn't know at he time she wrote it, if people would perceive it as a serious work or an attempt at highbrow erotica though there isn't much that could be construed as erotica. I have no way of knowing. But I think in a world where there are so FEW men, female homosexuality might well be more culturally accepted even among women who were not really lesbians.

We have precedent in that several of the ancient Greek societies seemed able to accept homosexual behavior in men who weren't committed to that life completely. The book might have hinted at it once, but I think considering there didn't seem to be any overtly religious objection to it, this might have been a bigger part of the cultural, political, and economic life of the society in the book.

On the whole, I thought this was a pretty good book, and I'm glad I read it. If you're worried about it, it isn't a particularly titillating story, but it will hold most people's interest. Worth reading.

FizzyWater · 12-13-2016, 07:00 PM

I can't give anything like the detail in my opinion that you did - I read this back when it first came out and my memory is not what it was.

However, I agree this was a good book and worth reading.

I would make one comment about when the young man saved the princess. I think in a mostly rural world, it wouldn't be impossible that a protected young man still wouldn't be strong enough to do what needed to be done. I imagine those farm chores would definitely require strength.

I think you do make a point. If I remember correctly, one reason why he was willing to be brave and risk his life was because so many of his protector sisters were not available (didn't they travel into town or something?) So this could be a case of his actions being driven by need, and not otherwise typical.

GlenBarrington · 12-13-2016, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FizzyWater

I can't give anything like the detail in my opinion that you did - I read this back when it first came out and my memory is not what it was.

However, I agree this was a good book and worth reading.

I would make one comment about when the young man saved the princess. I think in a mostly rural world, it wouldn't be impossible that a protected young man still wouldn't be strong enough to do what needed to be done. I imagine those farm chores would definitely require strength.

I think you do make a point. If I remember correctly, one reason why he was willing to be brave and risk his life was because so many of his protector sisters were not available (didn't they travel into town or something?) So this could be a case of his actions being driven by need, and not otherwise typical.

I think you're right about him being stronger than the typical 'city boy'. I think that was even mentioned in passing in the book (not sure). However I can buy in to the idea that he would fight off the attackers, his skill with guns was explained by the mention that his father insisted that the boys be trained to use them along with the girls, but I have a hard time with him carrying the princess back to his house.

In our world, we don't have the expectation that women (especially ones living in such restricted circumstances) would have the upper body strength to carry a full grown man a mile or so to the house. the 'spunky' ones would fashion a travois and drag the man back. I think that would have been a more logically consistent scenario and would not have altered the story any.

Like I said, I chose not to let it interrupt my enjoyment of the story, and maybe I'm looking for nits to pick. But as a lover of Science Fiction and alternate universes of all kinds, I feel obligated to point out when the universe being created isn't quite "right".

I get the impression that the book is older, so the likelihood of continuing with this universe is kind of small, but I'd buy either a sequel to this story, or other books set in this universe.

Darqref · 12-14-2016, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

I get the impression that the book is older, so the likelihood of continuing with this universe is kind of small, but I'd buy either a sequel to this story, or other books set in this universe.

Funny, but I've always assumed this story was a declined space colonization, ie, human but not originally from this planet. That's the only way I could think of for this type of genetic outcome to occur - any natural evolution of this type of genetic situation would lead to much more differences between male and female, since there isn't any genetic pressure for the males to retain anywhere near the physiques described.

My random thoughts about sequels usually includes a new ship arriving.

hildea · 12-16-2016, 12:53 AM

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out! I've read a couple of Spencer's Elfhome books, and liked them, but have never read this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Another flaw that I chose to overlook because I thought it would get in the way of the story, is that in such a world women would evolve to be larger and stronger, while the men would become smaller and weaker.

Not neccessarily. If the number of boys born dropped sharply say five hundred or a thousand years ago (because of some disease or mutation which somehown spread to the whole population), that's enough time for the culture to change drastically, but not enough for evolution to make much difference.

For evolution to have this effect, there would also have to be something in society which caused weak men and strong women to have more children than others, but that might be there -- I haven't read the book yet

GlenBarrington · 12-19-2016, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hildea

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out! I've read a couple of Spencer's Elfhome books, and liked them, but have never read this one.

Not neccessarily. If the number of boys born dropped sharply say five hundred or a thousand years ago (because of some disease or mutation which somehown spread to the whole population), that's enough time for the culture to change drastically, but not enough for evolution to make much difference.

For evolution to have this effect, there would also have to be something in society which caused weak men and strong women to have more children than others, but that might be there -- I haven't read the book yet

Good points that I didn't think of.

hildea · 12-30-2016, 04:31 PM

Thanks again! I've read it now, and liked it a lot. I'll check out more of Wen Spencer's books.

I especially liked the worldbuilding, but plots and characters were good too. The romance subplot was interesting -- in a world where one man marries a group of sisters, a happy ending to a romance plot requires him to love (or at least like) all his wives, not just the main love interest, and vice versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Oddly, the young man is able to fight off the attackers of the princess and then carry her BACK to his house. That seems a flaw in the story logic to me.

His 14-year old sister fought them off, by shooting from cover, so they didn't know that there was just one attacker. She wasn't strong enough to carry the princess herself, so she went home, and returned again with our hero, who was able to drag the unconcious princess up on a horse.

Quote:

But I think in a world where there are so FEW men, female homosexuality might well be more culturally accepted even among women who were not really lesbians.

There are a couple of brief mentions of this, like this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Brother's Price

He knew some women pleasured others for money, but his mothers and sisters kept him innocent of the details.

bgalbrecht · 01-10-2017, 12:14 AM

I picked this up when it was on sale recently, and my impression was that it could have been a post-apocalyptic Earth. I didn't think that it was unreasonable for Jerin to be muscular, since he was allowed to work out and train with his sisters. Since higher testosterone levels are related to muscle building, unless whatever caused the rarity of men also affected testosterone levels, I would think that a male who was doing heavy lifting and other sorts of manual activities would still develop muscles.

pdurrant · 01-10-2017, 03:13 AM

"Fi[r]st and biggest in my mind is why does this male shortage only happen to humans?"

Many SF (& fantasy) stories start with a single 'what if?' That is this story's one change: The human sex ratio is wildly skewed. The author doesn't choose to give a reason, and the characters in the story don't wonder about it because that's just the way things are. SF stories where the characters explain commonplace things to each other went out in the 1940s.

I bought A Brother's Price back in Fictionwise days. I thought it was great. Thanks for bringing it to other people's attention.

12-13-2016, 05:07 PM	#1
GlenBarrington Cheese Whiz Posts: 1,986 Karma: 11677147 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Springfield, Illinois Device: Kindle PW, Samsung Tab A 10.1(2019), Pixel 6a.	A Brother's Price by Wen Spencer This is a novel of gender role reversal, and I guess we could say, of court politics. But instead of a few characters reversing our culture's gender roles, it is an entire culture that reverses the roles. In this world, men are rare and valuable, so women form 'families' to share the men available to them. Generally there is one man for however many adult "Sisters" not related to him. While the founding groups of 'sisters' may not have started out as blood relatives, the families over time do become true genetic relation. Families who have historically been able to produce male children gain status, influence and are considered at least to be on the path to being wealthy. The men, however aren't in the catbird seat here. They are virtual prisoners of their families from the moment they are born till they die and rarely leave their homes. Because there are so few men, they can't be risked in dangerous occupations. The early death of a husband before his children, male or female could secure suitable spouses could mean the death of an entire family, and certainly it would mean a loss of wealth, prestige, and influence. Men are largely uneducated, work as homemakers, and are pretty much sold and traded between families. I got the feeling that the culture was largely lifted from that of the ancient Greeks, though this culture was more technologically advanced. In the beginning, even though I have been reading Science Fiction and Fantasy for over 50 years, and consider myself reasonably skillful in making the mental and emotional shifts required by that genre, I found myself almost quitting the book. However, I'm glad I didn't! My sense of disorientation and 'wrongness' was pretty strong at first. Stuff like this shouldn't happen to a strong male character. I had to read almost a third of the book to really 'get into' the situation of the novel. And there ARE some minor flaws in the book that didn't help, though I'll point them out in a bit. This character is a young man from a reasonably prosperous, but backwater family of no particular influence. He is about to come of age and facing dim and dismal marriage prospects; when he happens to save a princess of the realm. This changes his life and propels his family into the always dangerous world of court intrigue for which they are un prepared and unwilling to enter in to because of who the recently deceased father of the family was. They are backwater for a reason. As I said in a prior paragraph, there are some flaws, and they kept it from getting my full buy in. Fist and biggest in my mind is why does this male shortage only happen to humans? Why aren't the other animals affected? Was it a disease? Are the people of the story not really humans but some similar species? It wasn't ever explained or even addressed. And no one even wonders aloud why this discrepancy even exists. Another flaw that I chose to overlook because I thought it would get in the way of the story, is that in such a world women would evolve to be larger and stronger, while the men would become smaller and weaker. The men are physically weak, most of the time (but not always), while the women aren't really described at all. Oddly, the young man is able to fight off the attackers of the princess and then carry her BACK to his house. That seems a flaw in the story logic to me. I think this weakens the story, in our world, where men are expected to do the fighting and the dangerous jobs, men are still VERY much aware of other men's physical size and ability to do violence. The author might have two women meeting for the first time, think "she seems strong and capable", but I think it far more likely women in this world would notice if the other woman is a leftie or a rightie, any limps or weakness in the limbs. that sort of thing. Now this last 'flaw' might have been overlooked on purpose since the author, Wen Spencer couldn't know at he time she wrote it, if people would perceive it as a serious work or an attempt at highbrow erotica though there isn't much that could be construed as erotica. I have no way of knowing. But I think in a world where there are so FEW men, female homosexuality might well be more culturally accepted even among women who were not really lesbians. We have precedent in that several of the ancient Greek societies seemed able to accept homosexual behavior in men who weren't committed to that life completely. The book might have hinted at it once, but I think considering there didn't seem to be any overtly religious objection to it, this might have been a bigger part of the cultural, political, and economic life of the society in the book. On the whole, I thought this was a pretty good book, and I'm glad I read it. If you're worried about it, it isn't a particularly titillating story, but it will hold most people's interest. Worth reading. Last edited by GlenBarrington; 12-14-2016 at 08:09 AM.

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12-13-2016, 07:00 PM	#2
FizzyWater You kids get off my lawn! Posts: 4,220 Karma: 73492664 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Device: Oasis 2 and Libra H2O and half a dozen older models I can't let go of	I can't give anything like the detail in my opinion that you did - I read this back when it first came out and my memory is not what it was. However, I agree this was a good book and worth reading. I would make one comment about when the young man saved the princess. I think in a mostly rural world, it wouldn't be impossible that a protected young man still wouldn't be strong enough to do what needed to be done. I imagine those farm chores would definitely require strength. I think you do make a point. If I remember correctly, one reason why he was willing to be brave and risk his life was because so many of his protector sisters were not available (didn't they travel into town or something?) So this could be a case of his actions being driven by need, and not otherwise typical.

01-10-2017, 12:14 AM	#8
bgalbrecht Wizard Posts: 1,806 Karma: 13399999 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: US Device: Nook Simple Touch, Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Clara HD, Kindle 4	I picked this up when it was on sale recently, and my impression was that it could have been a post-apocalyptic Earth. I didn't think that it was unreasonable for Jerin to be muscular, since he was allowed to work out and train with his sisters. Since higher testosterone levels are related to muscle building, unless whatever caused the rarity of men also affected testosterone levels, I would think that a male who was doing heavy lifting and other sorts of manual activities would still develop muscles.

01-10-2017, 03:13 AM	#9
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 71,632 Karma: 306652114 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Voyage	"Fi[r]st and biggest in my mind is why does this male shortage only happen to humans?" Many SF (& fantasy) stories start with a single 'what if?' That is this story's one change: The human sex ratio is wildly skewed. The author doesn't choose to give a reason, and the characters in the story don't wonder about it because that's just the way things are. SF stories where the characters explain commonplace things to each other went out in the 1940s. I bought A Brother's Price back in Fictionwise days. I thought it was great. Thanks for bringing it to other people's attention.

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