Request: 100% Processing Visual Feedback

Sabardeyn · 10-20-2013, 03:23 PM

Kovid,
The recent post about calibre responding slowly reminded me of a particular annoyance I experienced on my older system. I'm hoping it is such a minor change that it can be implemented with a minute's coding. I realize the use case is limited, but I think this is a "better user experience" feature.

When performing tasks on a less capable computer system, the "processing dialog" appears showing that Book 1 of 18 has been completed, representing 5.5% of the task. This display is fine until you get to the end of the task. The last bit of processing never updates the dialog.

So at Book 17 of 18, with 93.5% done, calibre processes the last book, performs whatever clean-up and returns me to the standard view. Note that I didn't mention the processing dialog being updated to show 100% complete.

On a slow computer this almost seems like the process has hung at 93.5%, or terminated without fully completing the task. There is no feedback to the user to let them know things completed successfully. An older computer could be sitting at the 93.5% stage for 30 sec - 3 minutes or more, thus my request.

If the processing dialog could be updated to show 100% it might alleviate worry. Granted a quick check verifies accurate completion, but it shouldn't be necessary.

I realize that on faster systems the dialog performs the same way (not updating to show 100%), but faster systems don't appear to have frozen, either, while waiting for calibre to return to the standard view.

Use or ignore as you see fit. Just something that always worried me on an older computer.

theducks · 10-20-2013, 04:09 PM

There are many places where slow visual feedback is a problem to the user. Even on a modest system .

eg. I select 200 books to send via wireless to Calibre Companion. After I click Send to device: Nothing, for over a minute at which time the Job Wheel does spin. If I click again with in the 'dead' time, I get the Windows Not Responding (which finally clears when the wheel spins)

IMHO The UI needs to show immediate feedback (Hourglass, knock down/change the dialog...) that the click has been accepted... Then proceed to queue (can queuing be a 'job' so we have feedback that something is working, so there is NO dead UI zone)

DoctorOhh · 10-20-2013, 10:08 PM

Moderator Notice
All great suggestions. PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - The purpose of this subforum Thread moved.

kovidgoyal · 10-20-2013, 10:28 PM

Which task are you talking about?

Sabardeyn · 10-21-2013, 03:33 PM

Kovid,
Give me a couple of days. I will need to dig out the old computer, set it back up, and do some testing in order to give you a specific answer.

However the processing dialog I'm talking about is a module/sub-routine that you call for various tasks within calibre. I've seen it appear during more than one task. At the vary least when editing metadata in bulk. Sorry, but it's been 3-4 months since I switched computers so exact details are not clear any more.

kovidgoyal · 10-21-2013, 11:34 PM

For bulk metadata edit as far as I know the processing dialog is not a progress bar at all but a spinner, so there should be no 100% issue.

At_Libitum · 10-22-2013, 07:34 AM

In most cases you are right, but in cases where for instance you do

save files to disk (+1500 books)
send files to device (+1500 books)

there's a tremendous (compared to normal operation speed) amount of wait time before something starts happening and all that time Calibre is locked/non-responsive.

kovidgoyal · 10-22-2013, 07:55 AM

I probably should get around to moving those operations into background threads, to keep calibre responsive when operating on huge sets, someday...

theducks · 10-22-2013, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by At_Libitum

In most cases you are right, but in cases where for instance you do

save files to disk (+1500 books)
send files to device (+1500 books)

there's a tremendous (compared to normal operation speed) amount of wait time before something starts happening and all that time Calibre is locked/non-responsive.

Kovid
This is what I am seeing (just with 1 less zero quantities

) which is why I suggested doing something at the beginning to indicate ('proceed type' click accepted).
Foreground processing is not an issue (a lot of things preclude doing them in background ,safely> any way)

Sabardeyn · 10-22-2013, 05:49 PM

Kovid, still haven't had time to dig out the old computer, but I wanted to comment that the foreground processing isn't an issue for me. If I have to wait, I wait.

You're probably right, it is probably a spinner instead of a progress bar. But if so, it still never reaches 100%. The dialog stops at one step short of 100% (relative to the number of books being processed) and maintains that display while the foreground process wraps up and control is returned to the user. Again, on an older computer, this can be several minutes (yes, I timed it once at 4+ minutes).

I guess, psuedo-code wise, I could describe what I'm seeing as a Do Until loop where the Percent Complete and Update Dialog sub-routines are only called in after the loop is incremented. At which point, since the loop has hit 100, the dialog never gets to the final run of those sub-routines. So although the task is 100% complete, the dialog is sitting at 93.5% complete (per previous example).

Add in the user's slow computer and thus the "Ut oh, I think it's frozen" user perception I mentioned previously as the foreground processing cleans up and returns control to the user.

theducks · 10-22-2013, 07:52 PM

You probably are looking at the Progress bar for the Job (what you see when you click the spinner)

kovidgoyal · 10-22-2013, 09:33 PM

That's what I am confused by, there is no % completed type message for bulk metadata edits, what the dialog says is Processing x books, please wait...

Sabardeyn · 11-13-2013, 07:48 PM

Kovid,
My apologies for not responding sooner. The sudden death of a long-time and close family friend, and many work-related issues arose unexpectedly. Now that I've caught up to the rest of the forum...

I was able to finally setup the old computer system. This is a WinXP SP3 system, running calibre 0.9.37. I created a virtual library for Jules Verne comprised of 23 titles. I then used Edit Metadata in Bulk to swap title & author (per the checkbox). As the requested change gets underway, I see both a spinner and a progress bar below it in the progress dialog. As previously stated, the percentage completed does not ever reach 100%, it falls one iteration short, with the dialog closing when it should reach 100% complete (ex: 0%, 5%, 10% ... 90%, 95%, close dialog). However, this less capable system keeps the processing dialog onscreen for a longer period of time.

Using the new computer, Win8.0 and calibre 1.8 & 1.9, to run a similar test the same issue occurs, but because of the streamlining of the backend, or better CPU, it is harder to notice. In this case, only a spinner is shown, but once again it falls short of 100% before the processing dialog closes.

I realize that both computer systems need to be updated in order to make a fair comparison, but I didn't want to alter the old system in case you wanted some additional info/specs. Both systems are using the same external USB HDD and library. I think I've got some screenshots from the old system, but I forgot to sneakernet them over for uploading.

kovidgoyal · 11-13-2013, 11:21 PM

I still dont get where you are seeing a percentage. The message at the bottom of the dialog is "Processing n books, please wait..."

There is no percentage anywhere.

If you mean there is a pause after the dialog is hidden, it is because the various views in the GUI are being refreshed, and that pause is unavoidable.

10-20-2013, 03:23 PM	#1
Sabardeyn Guru Posts: 644 Karma: 1242364 Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Right Coast Device: PC (Calibre), Nexus 7 2013 (Moon+ Pro), HTC HD2/Leo (Freda)	Request: 100% Processing Visual Feedback Kovid, The recent post about calibre responding slowly reminded me of a particular annoyance I experienced on my older system. I'm hoping it is such a minor change that it can be implemented with a minute's coding. I realize the use case is limited, but I think this is a "better user experience" feature. When performing tasks on a less capable computer system, the "processing dialog" appears showing that Book 1 of 18 has been completed, representing 5.5% of the task. This display is fine until you get to the end of the task. The last bit of processing never updates the dialog. So at Book 17 of 18, with 93.5% done, calibre processes the last book, performs whatever clean-up and returns me to the standard view. Note that I didn't mention the processing dialog being updated to show 100% complete. On a slow computer this almost seems like the process has hung at 93.5%, or terminated without fully completing the task. There is no feedback to the user to let them know things completed successfully. An older computer could be sitting at the 93.5% stage for 30 sec - 3 minutes or more, thus my request. If the processing dialog could be updated to show 100% it might alleviate worry. Granted a quick check verifies accurate completion, but it shouldn't be necessary. I realize that on faster systems the dialog performs the same way (not updating to show 100%), but faster systems don't appear to have frozen, either, while waiting for calibre to return to the standard view. Use or ignore as you see fit. Just something that always worried me on an older computer.

10-22-2013, 05:49 PM	#10
Sabardeyn Guru Posts: 644 Karma: 1242364 Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Right Coast Device: PC (Calibre), Nexus 7 2013 (Moon+ Pro), HTC HD2/Leo (Freda)	Kovid, still haven't had time to dig out the old computer, but I wanted to comment that the foreground processing isn't an issue for me. If I have to wait, I wait. You're probably right, it is probably a spinner instead of a progress bar. But if so, it still never reaches 100%. The dialog stops at one step short of 100% (relative to the number of books being processed) and maintains that display while the foreground process wraps up and control is returned to the user. Again, on an older computer, this can be several minutes (yes, I timed it once at 4+ minutes). I guess, psuedo-code wise, I could describe what I'm seeing as a Do Until loop where the Percent Complete and Update Dialog sub-routines are only called in after the loop is incremented. At which point, since the loop has hit 100, the dialog never gets to the final run of those sub-routines. So although the task is 100% complete, the dialog is sitting at 93.5% complete (per previous example). Add in the user's slow computer and thus the "Ut oh, I think it's frozen" user perception I mentioned previously as the foreground processing cleans up and returns control to the user. Last edited by Sabardeyn; 10-22-2013 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Clarity.

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10-20-2013, 04:09 PM	#2
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,921 Karma: 55705262 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	There are many places where slow visual feedback is a problem to the user. Even on a modest system . eg. I select 200 books to send via wireless to Calibre Companion. After I click Send to device: Nothing, for over a minute at which time the Job Wheel does spin. If I click again with in the 'dead' time, I get the Windows Not Responding (which finally clears when the wheel spins) IMHO The UI needs to show immediate feedback (Hourglass, knock down/change the dialog...) that the click has been accepted... Then proceed to queue (can queuing be a 'job' so we have feedback that something is working, so there is NO dead UI zone)

10-20-2013, 10:08 PM	#3
DoctorOhh US Navy, Retired Posts: 9,863 Karma: 13806776 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: North Carolina Device: Icarus Illumina XL HD, Nexus 7	Moderator Notice All great suggestions. PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING - The purpose of this subforum Thread moved.

10-20-2013, 10:28 PM	#4
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,966 Karma: 22669822 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	Which task are you talking about?

10-21-2013, 03:33 PM	#5
Sabardeyn Guru Posts: 644 Karma: 1242364 Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Right Coast Device: PC (Calibre), Nexus 7 2013 (Moon+ Pro), HTC HD2/Leo (Freda)	Kovid, Give me a couple of days. I will need to dig out the old computer, set it back up, and do some testing in order to give you a specific answer. However the processing dialog I'm talking about is a module/sub-routine that you call for various tasks within calibre. I've seen it appear during more than one task. At the vary least when editing metadata in bulk. Sorry, but it's been 3-4 months since I switched computers so exact details are not clear any more.

10-21-2013, 11:34 PM	#6
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,966 Karma: 22669822 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	For bulk metadata edit as far as I know the processing dialog is not a progress bar at all but a spinner, so there should be no 100% issue.

10-22-2013, 07:34 AM	#7
At_Libitum Addict Posts: 265 Karma: 724240 Join Date: Aug 2013 Device: KyBook	In most cases you are right, but in cases where for instance you do save files to disk (+1500 books) send files to device (+1500 books) there's a tremendous (compared to normal operation speed) amount of wait time before something starts happening and all that time Calibre is locked/non-responsive.

10-22-2013, 07:55 AM	#8
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,966 Karma: 22669822 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	I probably should get around to moving those operations into background threads, to keep calibre responsive when operating on huge sets, someday...

10-22-2013, 07:52 PM	#11
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 29,921 Karma: 55705262 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	You probably are looking at the Progress bar for the Job (what you see when you click the spinner)

10-22-2013, 09:33 PM	#12
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,966 Karma: 22669822 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	That's what I am confused by, there is no % completed type message for bulk metadata edits, what the dialog says is Processing x books, please wait...

11-13-2013, 07:48 PM	#13
Sabardeyn Guru Posts: 644 Karma: 1242364 Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Right Coast Device: PC (Calibre), Nexus 7 2013 (Moon+ Pro), HTC HD2/Leo (Freda)	Kovid, My apologies for not responding sooner. The sudden death of a long-time and close family friend, and many work-related issues arose unexpectedly. Now that I've caught up to the rest of the forum... I was able to finally setup the old computer system. This is a WinXP SP3 system, running calibre 0.9.37. I created a virtual library for Jules Verne comprised of 23 titles. I then used Edit Metadata in Bulk to swap title & author (per the checkbox). As the requested change gets underway, I see both a spinner and a progress bar below it in the progress dialog. As previously stated, the percentage completed does not ever reach 100%, it falls one iteration short, with the dialog closing when it should reach 100% complete (ex: 0%, 5%, 10% ... 90%, 95%, close dialog). However, this less capable system keeps the processing dialog onscreen for a longer period of time. Using the new computer, Win8.0 and calibre 1.8 & 1.9, to run a similar test the same issue occurs, but because of the streamlining of the backend, or better CPU, it is harder to notice. In this case, only a spinner is shown, but once again it falls short of 100% before the processing dialog closes. I realize that both computer systems need to be updated in order to make a fair comparison, but I didn't want to alter the old system in case you wanted some additional info/specs. Both systems are using the same external USB HDD and library. I think I've got some screenshots from the old system, but I forgot to sneakernet them over for uploading.

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11-13-2013, 11:21 PM	#14
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 43,966 Karma: 22669822 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	I still dont get where you are seeing a percentage. The message at the bottom of the dialog is "Processing n books, please wait..." There is no percentage anywhere. If you mean there is a pause after the dialog is hidden, it is because the various views in the GUI are being refreshed, and that pause is unavoidable.