[Gideon]

Yes, but my entire point is people are going to act on their absurd beliefs with or without science and research. Some of us may be able to look at research and reason our beliefs out on that, but most people don't. And most people won't.

People are stupid - they cling on to things with or without reason and often no amount of reason will change them. The whole argument is really moot on that point. I'm sympathetic with that particular part of the atheist polemic (trying to deal with these issues that get obfuscated by religion often) but I think they're screwing up by attacking religion en masse and treating it as all the same. It may have "unrational foundations" no matter what (and I'm not convinced it does. I think the evidentialist argument is a bit crap) but if we're talking about the values people pursue and what a reasonable society should look like...

Argue for that. Argue for the value of those reasonable beliefs. You don't attack someone foundationally - that just makes them defensive. You show them how what they believe foundationally doesn't necessarily lead to to the negative actions. There's a lot of common cause with atheists and liberal religionists (liberal in a theological sense) and that would be better served by working together against those problems than pretending like your local Episcopalian has much in common with your local Southern Baptist.

But even if you have a society of atheists - you're still going to have a lot of unreflective, idiot atheists that will do whatever someone tells them to. You'll have petty prejudices and constantly creates "others" and "outgroups" they can be against. The ways in which they passionately order their life will no longer be God but some other nonsense things. It's easy if you're a fairly intelligent person with some education to go "well, I'd not go along with that" but it happens. And your average intelligent, educated person is not a typical example of humanity.

I just think this whole issue is a red herring. It divides our common purposes. It gives the people we both think are problematic a common cause and a rallying point. It's like the "war on Christmas."

Ultimately, I view it like this: If you're concerned about what the evil that religion may partake in - there are better ways to fight it - ways that might actually accomplish something. If you just want to complain about religion and religion people - you just keep doing what you're doing.

(and I mean "you," of course, in the sense of speaking to atheists that take the position of these "new atheists.")