[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

Actually, it didn't. Please don't feel insulted if I say that your point about the appearance and rounded corners is visually ignorant. This comment is in the sense of relating to a level of visual subtlety that people who haven't designed anything don't appreciate, which means most people.

Are you saying that Apple redesigned the rounded corners in a way most people wouldn't notice the difference?

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

The radius isn't the same and the appearance isn't the same. It's similar, and I think it could be fair to say that it was likely to have been a source of inspiration.

The same can said about the iPhone and the Galaxy. They don't have exactly the same corner radius, they don't have exactly the same size for the device, they don't have exactly the same size for the speaker.

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

In reality, we know it isn't a rip-off because we have all seen the prototypes Apple made when considering the shape. Lots of the prototypes were similar to other phones around at the time, or around now.

By this logic Samsung didn't rip-off Apple because they have other models.

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

If it was a rip-off, the iPhone would have the same proportions and detail design features of the F700. It doesn't. The point is that there is far less similarity between Apple's iPhone and the F700, than there is between the Galaxy and Samsung's own F700! It's also a golden rule of design that you don't copy something unless you can improve it. In terms of the phone appearance (the hardware is a separate debate) it's not an improvement, and it's not even an advance.

Some people consider the extra buttons on the bottom and the bigger screen an improvement (Galaxy vs iPhone).

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

If I asked you to design a phone with curved edges and sides, and a flush bezel, it simply wouldn't look much like the iPhone. How come all the other Android phone manufacturers' devices aren't rip-offs? They were influenced by the iPhone, but aren't direct copies.

Not all of Apple's prototypes had rounded corners. Why didn't they go with this corner design?

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

I keep coming back to the point about being a designer, because it's germane to the argument. When you design something, you don't just start with a shape, produce a single version, and then build it. You start with your concept, and look at all the details. For example the radius, the bezel width, the flush fit, the positioning of the audio output and volume buttons, the curvature of the edges, the positioning of the speaker ('the slot' - not a card slot) the shape and size of it. All these things arise by design, not by accident. One or two things could be coincidental, all of them can't be. Why didn't they even introduce different colours? With the plastic back it was easy. That at least would have been an innovation, and arguably an improvement. The Samsung designers clearly copied Apple, because they chose not to copy their own design.

I didn't say that they are chosen by accident. But the different design elements serve a function. Like placing the speaker centered at the top. If you choose to ignore the function of the speaker this might seem strange, but try to remember that it's supposed to be a phone. And why would they introduce different colors? Most consumers use covers anyway, so what could possibly be the reason to market different colors, other that enforcing the idea that Apple should have a monopoly on black and white devices?

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

And your point about the logo is stupid. Sorry but you can't slap a logo on a rip off product, point at the logo and say, "See, it's different, look at that".

My point was that you were lying when you said that there are no details on the phone. Also in terms of design, placing the logo pushes the speaker at a higher position on the phone, adding to the differences between the models.

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

Look, just accept that you would have to be blind or prove that the Galaxy design existed in that form before the iPhone existed to disprove the claim that it's a complete rip-off. We know that Samsung can't prove that, and we know that Samsung looked at the iPhone's UI design. We definitely know that Samsung looked very hard indeed at Apple's charger and packaging.

I didn't say that the galaxy design existed in that form before the iphone design existed. My argument was that you can't complain about Samsung's use of rounded corners after the iphone went on the market when they were making phones with rounded corners before, just like you can't complain that placing the speaker at the top is a way of ripping-off Apple's design.

Originally Posted by jjallenupthehill

So - having looked at the whole picture, what is the overwhelming conclusion that any normal person ought to draw?

Come on - be sensible

The conclusion is that you simply refuse to use the same arguments for both Apple and Samsung. As a designer, are you telling me that you didn't notice the differences between the two chargers?

I'm not a designer, so I'm sure that I can't spot as many as you can, but from what I can see: 1. only the samsung has a logo, 2. they have a different color scheme, 3. they have a slightly different overall size, 4. they have a different radius for the corners, 5. they have a different shape at the USB end, 6. the USB side is made from different materials that make the samsung charger have a shinier surface than the apple charger, 7. the USB slot is bigger in the Samsung, 8. the slightly different shape would make the samsung charger easier to grip to unplug, making the difference an improvement, 9. the slightly bigger USB slot with rounded edges would make the USB cable easier to insert, making the difference an improvement.

According to your previous comments, if the situation were reversed, you would be arguing that this would be a case of using the other charger's design as inspiration, and not to directly rip-off.