[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The reason why I'm thinking about this is, because it would be a good way to create a valid, clean, and bare-bones book, without any auto-generated stuff in there.

Toxaris' ePUBTools program already does this, and it works pretty damn brilliantly from Word.

Sigil could be used to write a book of course, but it doesn't have things like word count and such, and often it's no fun to edit a file converted with Calibre in Sigil.

Well, then, the obvious answer to this is, don't use Calibre to create ePUBs. Even Kovid will tell you this. I don't know why on earth people keep doing it, other than laziness. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. You can run a PDF through AbbyyFineReader (even use their free online converter) to get a reasonably decent Word or HTML file; if you do the former, you can use Toxaris' ePUBTools program to clean it up and output a clean EPUB, barebones.

Also, if someone who has written a file editor specifically for writing, that uses plain text files (WriteRoom, Darkroom, FocusWriter and so on) could instantly add EPUB-export capabilities by calling this command-line program. This would be a change that can be implemented within a few minutes. (Literally.)

Well, it seems to me that I don't know a single person who writes in a plain text editor, and the people who do are already using Markdown or Latex, so I'm missing the point? Other than trying to build an alternative to Scrivener, which certainly isn't a bare-bones editor?

The only requirement would be that the files are in the mentioned directory structure, because there has to be a way to tell the program what file goes where, of course.

OK...

The reason why I'm using a directory structure is because in that case, no descriptive file is necessary. One would not need to have a file telling the editor (or the program) that "Introduction" needs to go before "Chapter 1", even though "I" comes later in the alphabet than "C". "10-Introduction" and "20-Chapter 1" would do this automatically.

Or, you could use Word, use header styles, instead of typing all that stuff out per your first post, use ePUBTools (or not), and build a TOC. Then export it to ePUB. The OPF and NCX is already built for you. Word essentially already has this functionality, at the click of a button. Anyone who has used Word's styles, or used the outline function, or the document map, can order their stuff not only automatically but auto-magically. They can drag and drop material via the Outline view, or via the Document map.

Every editor that has a file explorer (and many do) will be able to correctly show the book just by displaying the folder structure, sorted by alphabet; there is no need to understand any file formats at all.

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning for this. Most of my clients do not know what a "folder structure" is. I'm not being critical of you, your idea, or my clients, but I think you're conflating MR'ers with the average author-typist.
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In the past, a writer would write parts of a book on a typewriter, or by hand, and then order them in a binder or something. Then the document would be typeset, printed, and so on, but the writer wouldn't do that himself (most of the time).

Even when using Word or OpenOfffice or something like that, a writer needs to bother with styles, and then do a conversion using Calibre or other tools. These programs invariably create weird auto-generated code.

No. Word or OO or LO create "weird auto-generated code" when the user hasn't bothered to learn how to actually use them. I don't see how on earth you can expect the same type of person, who won't take 2 hours to completely learn, stem-to-stern, a program like Word, as one of their daily, can't-live-without-tools, to go to all the effort to learn and use a type of Markdown language. I am stuck (yes: I mean, STUCK) using Markdown on both my PM system and my Customer Service system--they each work differently, mind you, so the markdown for things like headers, italics, bold, blockquotes, are different on each system--and having to add all those keystrokes unnecessarily to everything I type is a major pain in the ass. Instead of having a simple RTF editor, or even BBCode, it's Markdown. I would NEVER use markdown to write a fiction novel. You think people who send me material using 20 fonts, 3 of them "handwriting fonts," will use something like Markdown? Where, never mind all the stuff they won't get, they have to type tags around everything? Didn't we all, already see that this was not popular with Wordperfect? Which did work perfectly? But was abandoned like yesterday's dirty skivvies for something where people didn't HAVE to know where the tags went?

Using a setup like mine, would allow a writer to just write text, as if on a typewriter, using any editor, any operating system, or any device. Then they'd order it by numbering it, and the commandline program would spit out a clean file that can be handed off to a professional editor/layout dude. This file would not be a conversion: it'd be built from the ground up, so it would not contain any weird code.

Umhm. Because none of them are using italics, bold, underscores, headers....

Basicaly, one would need to know *NOTHING* about computers apart from how to create folders and opening and saving plain files, and still be able to obtain a usable (all be it bare-bones) e-book.

Your average user must be worlds away from our average user. Do you have any idea what 90% of our customer service/support is for? Seriously? It's for a) helping our clients to download a file from a browser, instead of it coming to them in email; b) finding the file after it's been downloaded, because they don't know what folders, directors, or the Downloads (dir) are, and c) figuring out how to "run" a program. They don't know how to open a file for which they don't already auto-magically have a program installed to open. If it cannot be opened and run in the program by simply double-clicking it, they can't do it. These are the writers that are going to "create folders?"

Sorry, I just don't see it. Maybe for the crowd that hangs here, but so far, I see a ton of Scrivener, Liquid Story Binder, Snowflake Pro, yWriter5, etc., buyers here, even on MR, not to mention Word, Wordperfect, OO, LO, etc. I have seen exceedingly few authors here who talk about how they write in NoteTabPro, or NotePad, or any other plain text editor. And, in fact, some have even more expensive, fancy "writing systems." Scrivener at $40 seems to me to be a total bargain, given what one gets, and I think it matches up with what the normal writer thinks s/he "needs." (Myself, I use Word for business and I use yWriter for writing, as I'm perfectly content with RTF's. I once bought LSBXE, and now I laugh at myself for being such an IDIOT. I've never tried Scrivener, because I already figure I've been stupid once. Outside of playing music for ya, if that's what blows your skirt up, none of those "packages" really do anything a plain old word-processor can't do on a regular computer system--except that Scrivener DOES make eBooks that seem to work.)

Just my $.02. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I think you're viewing authoring plus ePUBs as a goal; I think most writers see writing the story as the goal, and the formatting is an afterthought (trust me on this). Most won't even use Styles, not even to make their own lives easier, much less to do something akin to what you're discussing.

I know that user_none was thinking about a markdown-based ePUB editor/program about 6 months back. You should ping him and see if he's still working on it.

Hitch