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Old 02-01-2013, 02:15 AM   #57
avantman42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw View Post
You're a hard man to impress.

Of course "hand crafted" doesn't really apply very well to computer created stuff at all. When I write software these days I use one of several different high-level programming languages. To truly "hand-craft" I would need to go back to punching cards - that would qualify, wouldn't it?
As you say, "hand crafted" is difficult to define in terms of computer-created stuff, and I don't think it's a term I'd use for anything I'd made with a computer. This is one of the reasons why I asked Jon exactly what he meant.

I've written software in a variety of languages, and I've used SCADA packages to create interfaces. I've never written anything on punch cards or tape. I wouldn't call any of my software hand crafted, but I would say it was written by hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
I suppose you could say that only he can explain what he means...but what I described is kinda the common understanding...
You may be right, but I'd have assumed he meant not using a WYSIWYG editor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
If your definition of hand crafting is only "writing the raw code in a text editor." Then you can "Hand craft" an html document in Sigil...it is a text editor - albeit specialized. You go into "Code view" and just start typing on a blank sheet...codes and all. And yes, I have done exactly that with Sigil.
I've not used Sigil much, but I don't really see a difference between using code view in Sigil and using a text editor. In either case, you're writing the HTML tags by hand. That's what I'd take "hand crafting" to mean in this context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
Even with a text editor (my favorite up until recently has been notepad++) there are built in tools that make your job of writing the code easier...if I tell it that I am writing in xhtml it will turn all the appropriate selectors/properties/values pretty colors and highlight matching tags. The editor also has certain functions that are built into it...like being able to save the file into a particular folder in a given format - open multiple files up from the same folder - rename the files, etc. Using those tools/functions in no way lessens the "hand-craftedness" of my html work. Does the fact an artist uses a saw and sandpaper discredit their work?

The same goes for Sigil. It has an added set of ePub specific functions that I use as tools for me to create an ePub.
I use Geany on Linux, which has similar code highlighting features for various languages.

I think I should clarify something here. I am not making a value judgement. I'm not criticising Jon, or saying that he should write ePubs in Notepad. I simply wanted to clarify what he meant. Earlier in the thread (post #31) he said "Now, I might consider buying your eBook if you hand crafted it and put it up and Kobo and B&N." To me, hand crafting a book implies writing the raw HTML, CSS etc in a text editor. On the other hand, I've seen Jon talk about Sigil before, so I didn't know if he meant writing raw HTML etc, or if he meant using a dedicated ePub editor like Sigil, as opposed to writing in Word then converting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
Did you know that there are many different ways to achieve the same result when it comes to formatting an html document?? Different people will do things different ways. The act of going through a document line by line tweaking tags and THINKING about what is wanted - rather than letting a computerized algorithm make assumptions about what is intended - is the difference between "hand-crafted" and "automatic conversion".
Yes, I'm very aware of that. I've been writing HTML since 1998

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
I would say that Sigil is fine for hand crafting. It's your words, your code, your format. Sigil just helps you build the shell. What goes into the shell is all yours.

Also, I would agree that hand crafting is also taking a converted ePub and fixing it so the code is neat and easy to deal with.

I just finished fixing up an ePub that now no longer longer look (internally) like it used to. All the messy code has been replaced. I would call it hand crafted given how much I changed. None of the original CSS exists.
Thanks for the clarification, and I'm sorry if you (or anyone else) thought I was implying that you should edit the HTML in Notepad (or vi, or ed, or whatever even more extreme example you can think of).
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