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Old 09-19-2012, 12:24 AM   #49
taustin
Wizard
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
It's not criminal fraud (nor any other kind of fraud) if the contract terms are, themselves, illegal and unenforceable.
Which is not the case here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
The insistence on selling "licenses" but calling them "sales of books" (amazon says "click here to buy this book!" in both print and kindle versions; it doesn't say "click here to buy or license the use of this book!"), and the phrasing that the license doesn't allow handing your kindle to your spouse to read your purchased books--combined with Amazon's casual permission of shared accounts--indicates that the TOU themselves may not be legally enforceable.
The key thing, to the degree it's been decided (which isn't much so far) is whether or not you get indefinite use for a single payment. Amazon's terms do include provisions that allow them to remove stuff from the device these days.

You bet your freedom that's unenforceable. I prefer to keep the promises I make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
Amazon could put a line in its TOU that says "all Kindle owners agree to vote for Democrat party candidates in the next election," but that wouldn't make it fraudulent for Republicans to buy a Kindle, nor to vote as they wish after doing so.
Which is, frankly, a stupid argument (as stupid as it would be to include such a provision). Copyright licenses do exist, and are enforceable, and are enforced by courts. The only real question is whether or not Amazon's terms constitute a license or a sale of goods. A couple of years ago, I'd have said sale of goods, without question. Now, it's far less clear.

And regardless of how the law turns out, if you make a promise you have no intention of keeping, you're dishonest. That Amazon is greedy and slimy (but operating within the law) doesn't change this.
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