[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by emellaich

I've been reading a few free fiction (not science fiction) books from Amazon lately. The ones where the author has a six book series and gives the first one away as a promotion. Anyway, it's been jarring to see these 'modern' books that have no concept of a cell phone. Our character would get stuck in a broken down car and have to hike back for help, or would go searching for a pay phone to check in, etcetera.

<chuckle> Usually, the concern is that fact will overtake fiction, and the SF elements in the book will become dated because we've advanced enough to know better. Here, the problem is advancing technology producing things the SF writers never thought of. It's hard to remember that there was a time when the cell phone was not ubiquitous.

Another jarring note recently occurred when re-reading a favorite Zelazny. The main character, a judo/fitness buff would light up a cigarette every few pages as he thought about something or another. Cigarette smoking is something I've run across several times in my 'older' books. It's just a bit jarring because it never (?) shows up in current books.

It probably shows up, but it's much less popular. Back when Roger was writing, especially in his earlier days, smoking was more prevalent. (Roger smoked a pipe.) The TV series "Mad Men" is set in advertising in the '60s. The usual question is "Did everybody really smoke like chimneys and drink like fish like the do in the series?", and the answer from ad men who'd been in the business back then was "Yes. We did."

These days, smoking is in disfavor, and an increasing number of places are banning it, and imposing confiscatory taxes to try to stem it. (NYC is one such: city and state taxes and surcharges bring the price of a standard pack to about $11. Amusingly, you can buy back of small cigars, the same size as cigarettes, for $2.50. They aren't technically cigarettes, and slip through the loophole.)

Finally, on the subject of SF, SciFi, Science Fiction (Hard, soft and space opera), and, dare I say it: Fantasy. I do recognize most of these distinctions, and if you and I sat down and discussed it we could probably even agree to common definitions. I'd even let you convince me of your definition. Now try to fit a list of books into those defined categories. The problem that I found is that even with a common definition people will disagree which category a particular book fits into. In many cases, the book will fit into multiple categories. For example, some people I know would put the Honor Harrington series into fantasy because she is an empath.

Oh, I agree that definitions are porous, and you can find plenty of edge cases. To give a few offhand:

Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern
Pern is a lost colony, the inhabitants got there by starship, and the dragons are products of genetic engineering on the indigenous fire lizards. But people coming in in the middle see a feudal society, medieval level of technology, and fire breathing dragons and say "Aha! Fantasy!"

Randall Garret's Lord Darcy stories
Darcy is Chief Criminal Investigator for the Duke of Rouen, in an alternate history in which Richard the Lion Hearted settled down after being wounded in the Crusades and became a very good king indeed, founding a Plantagenet dynasty that still rules. Magic was developed instead of science, and theoretical thaumaturgists use sophisticated mathematics to work out the structure of spells that will be cast by working sorcerers. Darcy's partner, Master Forensic Sorcerer Sean O'Lochlain, uses magic to uncover clues Darcy uses to solve crimes. It's all worked up in best hard SF style, and was first published by John W. Campbell in Analog Magazine.

Melissa Scott's Silence Leigh novels
Silence is a sorceress who travels the stars with her two husbands in a ship powered by mystical forces. In Silence's society, alchemy is the dominant paradigm. Science also exists, and can be used, but the paradigms are antithetical: if you use one, you can't use the other.

Patricia Kennealy's Celts in Space series
In Kennealy's universe, St. Brendan the Navigator is St. Brendan the Astrogator, who led the Tautha De Danaan off Earth millenia ago, and founded a star nation based on the planet Keltia that is still locked in battle with its ancient enemies the Fomorians. Science and magic exist in Kennealy's universe, and computer controlled starships deliver naked, blue painted Fian warriors to the battlefields where they will wield broadswords against their opponents while mages cast spells in support.

But I'd love to know what definitions of SF and fantasy the folks you know use if they can call the Honor Harrington series fantasy. Would they also toss James H. Schmitz's "Federation of the Hub" stories into the fantasy pot, since many of them feature a heroine who is a powerful telepath, and psi powers are an accepted part of her society?
______
Dennis