Hello, all;

I recently bought a Sony Reader to replace my old Gemstar GEB2150. I mainly had to go from online reviews and documentation as to the Reader's features since no one locally sells it and I never had the chance to see a physical unit before I bought it. I received the Reader yesterday and am in the main very happy with it, but one thing bothers me. Even in very good, strong light my Reader's background is a darkish grey, never white, and it does not have good contrast with the black text. All of the photos I've seen of the Reader's screen made it look like the background was, if not a bright white, at least clearly white, rather than grey. Can other folks tell me what their Reader screens look like? I don't know if mine is normal or if there's something wrong with the unit.

Thanks!

The pix tend to make the background look whiter than it really is -- it's one of the challenges of e-ink, that it doesn't photograph well. :(

That being said, it ought to be a fairly light gray in the background, such that if you get it in direct sunlight, it looks nearly white. I do know that the display gets a bit more ... fluid with use, so the contrast is a bit lower when it's been idle for a while, and improves after using it a bit, but that shouldn't take too much use to see, 4~5 page changes in quick succession should do it. Oh, yeah, it does get more sluggish as the temperature drops, so if you're using it in a particularly cold environment, you'll probably see some of that. Hmmm, and a low battery charge can result in the contrast dropping too....

Thanks for the reply! I think that part of the problem may be that I'm going from the GEB2150, a device with a backlight, to the Reader. It does seem odd not to have the backlight and it may be affecting my perception of the contrast.

One thing I noticed early with this kind of display is that it does not do well with the yellowish lighting we have been accustomed to use.

You have to spotlight it with a compact fluorescent (CF) bulb. And in the process try not to light your hands, they will have a tendancy to be brighter than the screen; uncomfortably distracting. My favorite reading setup with it involves a cantilevered floorlamp with a CF in it right over the center of my head while in an easychair, with a lounging cover and two cats on my legs. :smiley2:

I've tried it next to a window in direct sun. At this it is the best ever outside reading experience, even more than paper, which becomes too bright and better than any edisplay available.

I have found that a light in front of me provides the best experience. When the light is behind me I seem to go in and out of shadow and good reading a bit. Directly overhead tends to get my face in the light path or a reflection off the glass. Not much of a reflection, but a reflection none the less.

Yes, you definitely need a good reading light for the Reader. In dim yellow light, the screen background does indeed look dark grey, but it bright white light it's almost white.

All of the photos I've seen of the Reader's screen made it look like the background was, if not a bright white, at least clearly white, rather than grey.

The same effect has been noted for other e-ink devices as well.

See, for instance, http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7573

Definitely try to find some Full spectrum Compact Flourescents or regular incadescent bulbs. This are much whiter than normal lights and make the contrast look much better on the reader.

I'm sorry to say after having experienced the Reader for 2 months that eink technology is terribly flawed.

When after all the hoopla that this screen is the same or better than a paperback book, it makes you think.

If you have to pay $350 to read dark gray type on a light gray background with lousy contrast, on a fuzzy screen with ghosting problems; and then format and reformat files, while having 4 copies of every book in 4 different format, just in case; and then try 4 or 5 different book lights so you can read 150 characters in 10 seconds and get a cramp in your finger because instead of reading you're turning pages....

I'm sorry... I'm going back to grow with own trees in my own forest and print my own books on my 600 dpi laser printer with black toner and use any font I want with 10 point type.

Sony Reader does not represent a step forward; it's just another exercise in futility.

I'm sorry to say after having experienced the Reader for 2 months that eink technology is terribly flawed.

When after all the hoopla that this screen is the same or better than a paperback book, it makes you think.

If you have to pay $350 to read dark gray type on a light gray background with lousy contrast, on a fuzzy screen with ghosting problems; and then format and reformat files, while having 4 copies of every book in 4 different format, just in case; and then try 4 or 5 different book lights so you can read 150 characters in 10 seconds and get a cramp in your finger because instead of reading you're turning pages....

I'm sorry... I'm going back to grow with own trees in my own forest and print my own books on my 600 dpi laser printer with black toner and use any font I want with 10 point type.

Sony Reader does not represent a step forward; it's just another exercise in futility.
The text is black and not gray. The screen is not fuzzy. If it was, I'd have returned mine right away. yes the ghosting is a function of eink at present. But really, if you pay attention to the words and not the ghosting, it's not all that bad really. As for having 4 or 5 different formats of a book, that's up to you. I have them in 2 or 3 formats. I have them in the LRF, maybe LIT if that's how I bought it, maybe HTML or text if from Project Gutenberg, maybe HTML or HTML0 depending if I used Book designer or html2lrf to convert. Other then that, I have no need for other finished formats other then LRF and/or LIT. The source files I keep because someday it's possible that the Sony will support more formats or I'll end up with a different reader that I'll need to use the source files for. That's the nature of ebooks at the moment.

I'm sorry you are not happy. But have you really sat down and just read your books instead of looking at the reader? I know you see what you feel are problems when you look at your reader, but if you just look at the words, I think you'll find the problems are not really such problems.

Jon

When after all the hoopla that this screen is the same or better than a paperback book, it makes you think.I find that statement completely astounding. :stunned:

We've dealt with displays that are nowhere nearly as good as a paperback book for, literally, decades. All that time, a display that is as good as print has been a proverbial grail of the display industry. It finally arrives, only to bedismiss ed as though it were of no consequence whatsoever. :no:

I'm utterly stunned by that, I don't even know how to respond to it.

I can honestly say that I'm glad your print to paper method works for you, and I do hope that it continues to work for you for as long as you need/want it to, but that's the extent of the comment I'm going to allow myself to make. http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/lipsrsealed2.gif

I find that statement completely astounding. :stunned:

We've dealt with displays that are nowhere nearly as good as a paperback book for, literally, decades. All that time, a display that is as good as print has been a proverbial grail of the display industry. It finally arrives, only to bedismiss ed as though it were of no consequence whatsoever. :no:

I'm utterly stunned by that, I don't even know how to respond to it.


Perhaps the issue is that us Reader "fans" are coming to the Reader from years of reading eBooks on Palms, Pocket PCs, etc. Compared to that reading experience, the Reader is a revolution in clarify and "pleasure" of reading.

I would guess that perhaps this is Brian's first encounter with eBooks and that he's rather fallen for the "hype" that eInk is as good as, or better than, printed paper which it certainly isn't. The screen resolution is nothing like that of commercial printing and the contrast isn't as good, either, especially in poor light.

I completely disagree with the statement that "eink technology is terribly flawed", however. It's the best we've ever had, and we know it's going to get a lot better in the future.

For us eBook fans, the Reader is the best there's ever been. Perhaps, though, the hype is better than the reality for "newbies" to the eBook scene.

Okay, I can see that possibility. :shrug: I'm still pretty astounded though. :grin3:

I guess HarryT is right about brian_el_nino.
However, I am n00b here too :)
I came straight from paper books to sony reader. I have never used other devices to read books. I hate to read from PC monitor.

I like the reader though :) Moreover, I went to Belarus to visit of my in-laws and I didn't take the reader because I was scared of their customs. So, I took a paperback edition of a book. It was OK after 4 months reading on the reader only, but when I came back and continued to read the book on the reader I appreciated it even more. No regrets, no nostalgia.

Hmm, I've been reading books on electronic devices for many years now, but I have to say the Sony Reader (and by extension eInk technology) is not exactly the bee's knees.

It *is* dark grey on light grey, esp. as I am looking at a 'real' book next to it right now. The font in the real book is smaller, yet eminently more readable. And in both cases, if I want to read in a darkened room, I have to attach a doodad to either one to have light directly on my text, as opposed to my almost 10 year old REB1100 with *backlight*... 2 steps forward, one step back... The REB is readable in the shade outside, and the times I have tried to read in full-blast bright sunshine are few and far inbetween, so that improvement has rather limited practical impact.

The resolution is still not quite high enough for comic/manga reading, esp. the text in the bubble. To some extent, it was working out better on my old REB1200 at 640*480, mostly because the color helped defining the text, like MS's Cleartype or Apple's solution.

Now don't get me wrong, I think, unlike the initial post, that the Sony Reader is usable, but it's mostly a trade-off. It's OK, I can live with it, but it's not nearly as great as some people here make it out to be.

It is a sad state of affairs when companies are experimenting with flexible displays, color and other gimmicks when they have, after all these years, not even managed to produce ONE SINGLE simply BLACK & WHITE (!) truely *large size* *high-resolution* *high-contrast* display readable in daylight AND with decent backlight in low-light conditions... in other words, like the books we've had for centuries with at least one notable improvement (the ability to read in the dark without additional light)

And I won't even get started on the software end of things, where things could be much better since there hasn't been any technological hurdle for years, and yet we're stuck in DRM-babel without even a frickin' search function or dictionary lookup, which I have enjoyed almost 10 years ago (!!) on my REB1100/1200...

Since a rant would not be complete without reminiscence, attached is the image that gave me hope of improvement. It took several *years* since to get a consumer version, without the double page format, and in reality not looking as nice, and without the software features I took for granted back then...

It is a sad state of affairs when companies are experimenting with flexible displays, color and other gimmicks when they have, after all these years, not even managed to produce ONE SINGLE simply BLACK & WHITE (!) truely *large size* *high-resolution* *high-contrast* display readable in daylight AND with decent backlight in low-light conditions... in other words, like the books we've had for centuries with at least one notable improvement (the ability to read in the dark without additional light)Well, there's also the improvement in weight and bulk over carrying around several books at once. :shrug: :wink:

The Sony Reader is my first e-reader. Earlier display technologies were simply unacceptable to me for serious reading. Although the Reader isn't perfect, I find it very useful and convenient. While the contrast is not as high as paper and ink, the ability to increase the font size is a huge advantage in low light situations, especially for those of us with presbyopia. It is more convenient than a book because I don't have to hold it open or change my hand position when I flip pages. And, of course, it is much better for traveling since it can hold many many books.

All in all, I think the Reader is a fine piece of technology.

... to read dark gray type on a light gray background with lousy contrast, on a fuzzy screen with ghosting problems; want with 10 point type...

.

I'll tell you that I mostly used to read old paperback books. They're grey on yellow and the printing is much fuzzyer than what you say about eink screens. And ghosting? That paper was so thin that you could clearly see the printing on the opposing page. Compared to that and the fact that most portable devices force me to secrete lacrimonious fluids profusely for the 15mins I can use them, I'd say eink is great... Strike that. Awesome!!!

Well, there's also the improvement in weight and bulk over carrying around several books at once.
Point well taken.:smack:
Of course, that advantage is common to any electronic storage device vs. the old-school physical media. Now if we could leverage it further for fancy things like searching :p

Oh, I agree there, allovertheglobe. I think that part of their reluctance to do a search function in the Reader may have to do with being afraid that the relatively slow processor and display refresh might be long enough to scare some folks away. Personally, it wouldn't bother me much to have to wait a few seconds for my search results, but I don't think that attitude is necessarily the majority one among Sony's target market. :shrug:

The resolution is still not quite high enough for comic/manga reading, esp. the text in the bubble.

I disagree, actually the resolution is EXACTLY the resolution manga is printed on initially. around 166DPI, newspaperquality.

Granted, 1on1 reading of manga-images is not good because the digital images gets resampled. But if the size is converted correctly, it becomes very readable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/athlonkmf/IMG_1021.jpg

In fact, the size of the reader is exactly as big as a manga-book.

(i've converted a lot of mangatitles for the reader now. It's 2GB worth of lrf-files, which were about 40GB of cbr/cbz-files.

I do agree that there are a lot of improvements needed for the reader, but I'm very satisfied with it as it is now.

some improvements I'd want:

-folder hierarchy
-left/right hand usage.
-the TOC follows the current page
-builtin lighting

I disagree, actually the resolution is EXACTLY the resolution manga is printed on initially. around 166DPI, newspaperquality.
Granted, 1on1 reading of manga-images is not good because the digital images gets resampled. But if the size is converted correctly, it becomes very readable.
In fact, the size of the reader is exactly as big as a manga-book.<snip>
I do agree that there are a lot of improvements needed for the reader, but I'm very satisfied with it as it is now.
Glad you're happy with the results. As far I'm concerned, I still stand by what I've written: "The resolution is still not quite high enough for comic/manga reading, esp. the text in the "bubble"." (emphasis added)

In other words, I can live with it, but some Manga are still pretty much unreadable. I have tried the various samples in this forum, as well as a couple of my own. The artwork may look OK, but the text-size some scanslation teams picked is so small that it is literally ~5-6 pixel high, and no amount of futzing with sharpening or levels is going to make this legible. Obviously, you can't just change the text-size as with a regular book.

As far as comparing it to print, I have to disagree. First, professional print is not done at 166DPI, it might be 166LPI (Lines Per Inch), a completely different resolution scale used by professional printers.

Second, and most importantly, I'm putting a recent legally purchased Tokyo Pop manga next to the reader, and both are indeed the approx. the same physical size. But the difference is remarkable! Not to mention contrast, but there is tiny text a millimetre high still sharp and legible, which would be a 4 pixel blotch at best on the reader. There are highly detailed screentones pushing the limit of the lineprinters they use, which turn inevitably into mushy shades of grey on the reader. And so forth...

Contrast aside, the artwork, including some of the simpler screentones, doesn't look half bad on the reader with proper filtering and re-sizing, and text is sufficiently large in most scanslations, but it doesn't compare to the real deal... yet. But that is the compromise for "free" mangas.

A higher resolution would help, like the Iliad, but price and size offset that benefit. The Hanlin V9 looks promising, with a 825 * 1200 resolution pretty much double that of the Sony reader.
(http://www.jinke.com.cn/compagesql/English/embedpro/prodetail.asp?id=34)

Meanwhile, the Sony Reader will have to do for me.

Glad you're happy with the results. As far I'm concerned, I still stand by what I've written: "The resolution is still not quite high enough for comic/manga reading, esp. the text in the "bubble"." (emphasis added)

In other words, I can live with it, but some Manga are still pretty much unreadable. I have tried the various samples in this forum, as well as a couple of my own. The artwork may look OK, but the text-size some scanslation teams picked is so small that it is literally ~5-6 pixel high, and no amount of futzing with sharpening or levels is going to make this legible. Obviously, you can't just change the text-size as with a regular book.


What kind of manga are you reading then? In the picture i've attached, you'd see that the text in the bubble is clearly readable. I don't know which samples you've tried, but I'd like to see them too then.

I've got my own way of processing my collection, which could be the reason why I don't have a problem with it.

As for the resolution, I've done a short research before buying the reader and I've read that on "recycled/cheap"-mangapaper the resolution is about 160DPI, therefor I concluded that the reader's resolution just fit it.
(i'm comparing to the "jump"-magazines, not the hiqh-quality paperback volumes)


I've just bought a manga from the connect store with the credit and indeed, the quality is really washed out... quite terrible.
I've uploaded one sample of the manga I converted for the reader, try that one out: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=74024&postcount=2

Not trying to speak good of mangascans, but if scanlations are better quality when converted to lrf compared to a "legal" manga-ebook.. I think i'll stick to scanlations for now.


Now that i've previewed the manga I've bought in the connect reader, I understand why it's so washed out on the reader itself. The resolution is much higher than the reader's. When downsampling, the reader makes it all fuzzy...

I too can read the text in the attached photo. I don't see a problem with it.

One problem (I'm guessing based on other books) that the connect store has poorly formatted the Manga. Left wide margins so the photos have to be shrunk more then they would have they used no margins.

My second reader arrived Thursday though I purchased it on 7/30. Following instructions posted elsewhere I contacted Sony and had no problem receiving the 149 Summer Promotion Extension as they promptly sent me my $50 coupon code. Thanks Sony!!

Right off I noticed a large difference in contrast between my two readers. In the past on the this forum I've seen people rave about how ink and paper like the lettering was in their books. I always thought, "well its nice" but its not _that_ nice. Well... With my original reader long reading sessions tired out my ol' eyes. And I needed perfect lighting to read without strain for long sessions.

The new reader is night and day better. The blacks are inky black and the background appears to be a bit lighter as well, but the big difference is the true blackness of the "ink" in contrast to the dark grey on my orginal reader displays. On the new reader the lettering seems to almost float of the screen.

If you look are the attached shot of the Reader menu you can see this across the very top. Thats not glare. The new reader, the left one, the top bar is darker then the reader housing itself. On my old reader the Reader housing (plastic) is darker then the black (more dark grey) ink. It is really noticable by looking at the right side where the numbered tabs are. Notice how dark the curser/pointer is on tab 2 as well as the contrast forming the 3-Dness of the tabs. The Icons on the left are clearly darker as well.

The second attachment shows the noticable difference in greys and black in a cover shot of a book. (Dreaming In Code)

The first shot was taken with "natural light" from the bottom of the shot. The second shot was taken with a flash, which I tried to center between the two readers.

Now that I have two readers(!!) I'll give Sony a call on Monday and see if I can get the first one repaired. So far they've been very good to me.

Hmmm.... looking back at that pic I first made, the contrast of my reader sure has diminished 2 months. While in this pic I made when I first got my reader
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/athlonkmf/IMG_1021.jpg
menu is really black.

Now, the menu is grey and washed out. The same as your reader...

Now, the menu is grey and washed out. The same as your reader...

That question was asked rather early on, I remember: what *is* the life time of e-paper, and how does it deteriorate? No info could be found at the time, but it might be that we have some clues here.

Unless, of course, different generations of e-paper were used.

As far as comparing it to print, I have to disagree. First, professional print is not done at 166DPI, it might be 166LPI (Lines Per Inch), a completely different resolution scale used by professional printers.

It's not so different.

LPI tells you how closely lines can be positioned and still be distinguished from each other = resolved. If you think about it, x LPI = 2x DPI, as there has to be white between the lines if they should be resolved. 166 DPI is thus approx 83 LPI, and that's on the level of newspaper image print quality.

Hi - new poster, but have had my Reader since 12/06. I noticed the same thing with my Reader as well - the ink being lighter than newer versions (I compared with a friend who got hers about a month back).

Unfortunately, after calling Sony Support, they said there's nothing that can be done about it - after going through the requisite hard reset and firmware upgrades questions.

I asked if Sony was aware of the problem and/or able to develop something to improve the ink, but again, nothing out there right now.

So it looks like I will either have to make do with my current one or badger the family for a new one come b-day!

If anyone else has better luck, please do share! Thanks :)

Hi all,

First post... this is my first use of the eReader. I like it, except I do feel the contrast is not as good as I expected. But the biggest issue I have is with bleed through. Is this normal? Every previous page shows through when viewing the next page, making it hard to read. Is there a fix or do I just need to learn to live with it?

Thanks for any tips... and I did see mention somewhere of a way to use the joystick to turn the pages. How do I implement that... it would be fantastic. Thanks again.

Look at the stickies. The info on the mods is there someplace in (I think) the developer's section in the Sony forum section.

But the biggest issue I have is with bleed through. Is this normal? Every previous page shows through when viewing the next page, making it hard to read. Is there a fix or do I just need to learn to live with it?It sounds like you're talking about what we often call "ghosting" -- that is to say that it looks like a very pale shadow of the last page is still there on a new page, are we talking about the same thing?

Assuming the answer is yes to that, I'd tell you that ghosting seems to be more pronounced on a new display, and generally diminishes over time and use. I've had mine since ... um, fall sometime, anyway, and it used to be fairly pronounced in the ghosting department, but there's barely any at all now. :shrug:

Additionally, there is a variable resistor on one of the circuit boards inside the Reader that adjusts contrast. Usually more contrast brings more ghosting, however. You'll have to search the forum for details on that one, I'm afraid I don't recall off hand the details (perhaps someone else will, though :nice:), and I don't know how you feel about the idea of doing surgery on your toys. :grin:

I'm slowly going through the whole troubleshooting forum and this kind of worries me now. How many people are experiencing this fading? While I know I'll probably be buying a better reader in a couple of years, will my current one be faded as badly as in the posted pictures after not even a year of regular use? This makes me concerned more than anything else I've seen. - Colt

Colt, I've had the Reader since its initial launch, and I cannot observe any increase in fading or ghosting. On the other hand, recently my girlfriend bought a new Reader, and while it has a slightly better contrast than mine, it also has more ghosting (especially around the edges). I guess it's really device-specific.

I think mine's faded some since I got it (shortly after launch), but the ghosting has decreased too. There does seem to be some 'wear in' fading that occurs on most/all e-ink, but it should be minor and limited (i.e. it should stop fading). :shrug:

I'm slowly going through the whole troubleshooting forum and this kind of worries me now. How many people are experiencing this fading? While I know I'll probably be buying a better reader in a couple of years, will my current one be faded as badly as in the posted pictures after not even a year of regular use? This makes me concerned more than anything else I've seen. - Colt
You forget the fundamental rule. Most people who have no problems don't just out and post "my reader is wonderful, no problems". It's the people who have the problems who post "my reader is not so wonderful because I have a problem". For every person who posts "I have a problem", there are more who don't have a problem. My reader is wonderful, no problems.

My Reader is wonderful too, no problems here either. :grin:

Maybe we should start a thread ....

Oh, I know that most people with no issues never post saying so... But when several people document the same thing, it makes me worry some naturally.

Well, sure, perfectly natural. :yes:

That's when it gets tricky: how much weight should such reports be given? I could list the things I do to try and decide that, but they're probably the same things you do, so .... :shrug:

Oh, I know that most people with no issues never post saying so... But when several people document the same thing, it makes me worry some naturally.

I am like you when it comes to buying gadgets. I seek as much advise as possible from online reports. The problem is that most of the time I am more confused afterwards than I was before. As someone who is really picky about choosing his gadgets let me say that I never regretted buying the Reader!