View Full Version : How to go to a page on Kindle??? Locations are annoying.


pashlit
09-11-2010, 11:15 AM
Hello there,
I found this question have been asked numerous times on different forums, but I didnt find any answer. Correct me if I am wrong but locations AKA page numbers on Kindle have absolutely no sense. How am I supposed to go to a particular page? I read half of a book on another ereader. Then I sold that ereader and got Kindle DX. I put the book back on DX hopping to continue reading from page 242 and just found "Locations 75-90" or smth like that. Is it a joke or dont I understand something???? Why dont they allow us just to use page numbers? Yeah, I can try to use search by a word or phrase but its annoying.
Thanks

HarryT
09-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Because page numbers according to screen size and font size selection. Page 242 on a Sony PRS-600 is not going to be the same as page 242 on a Kindle DX.

Locations (which are a count of 128 bytes in the file) are independent of the size of the screen or the size of font that you've chosen. They can be used to give an absolute reference within a book.

daffy4u
09-11-2010, 11:25 AM
Kindles do not use page numbers only locations which are more accurate than page numbers. Page numbers will change depending on the size font used but locations will remain the same.

For some folks locations are annoying but that's the way it is. :)

The best way to try to find where you left off in your book is to use the search function. If you can remember a phrase or something unique on the last page (or near the last page), use that as your search term and the Kindle will find it for you.

TheKindleWorm
09-11-2010, 11:30 AM
For people new to ereading in particular, having locations instead of page numbers must feel very odd. However, locations provide (as HarryT said) an absolute reference to the part of the book you're reading.

I love locations because I can read a book on Kindle for iPhone and the same book on my Kindle and get to exactly the same place on each via the location. Yes I can also sync up wirelessly too but sometimes I find it quicker to input the location manually.

If you're reading a paper book or a book on a non-Kindle platform and you want to get to the exact same spot on your Kindle - open the book on your kindle and search for a phrase on the page of the book you're reading.

pashlit
09-11-2010, 11:33 AM
I understand that page numbers are different on different ereaders. But I d rather prefer page numbers instead of annoying locations. It much easier to remember page number than some absolute reference. I tested several models and I think this is actually the most annoying thing an ereader can have. The second one is absence of folder support that Kindle also kinda lacks. :smack:

poohbear_nc
09-11-2010, 11:35 AM
Also - while you are reading - if you encounter a "page" with something you know you will want to refer back to, or need to re-read, put a bookmark on that page. Bookmarks are also great to use if your book does not have an active Table of Contents to allow you to jump from chapter to chapter - bookmark the first page of each chapter.

Tiersten
09-11-2010, 11:36 AM
You don't have to remember them though. You can just add an annotation and the ereader will remember your position in the book by itself also. Page numbers are only useful if you're referring to a paper based copy of the book as well.

HarryT
09-11-2010, 11:39 AM
I understand that page numbers are different on different ereaders. But I d rather prefer page numbers instead of annoying locations. It much easier to remember page number than some absolute reference.


Perhaps it is, but what use is a page number if it doesn't get you to the point in the book where you want to go? You said that you had read half of a book on another reader, and then bought a Kindle DX. Even if the Kindle did support page numbers, the page numbers that you had remembered on the other reader would be useless to you, because they wouldn't correspond on the Kindle. I really don't see what you would have gained, at all.

The second one is absence of folder support that Kindle also kinda lacks. :smack:

The Kindle supports collections, of course, which are very like folders.

pashlit
09-11-2010, 11:42 AM
You don't have to remember them though. You can just add an annotation and the ereader will remember your position in the book by itself also. Page numbers are only useful if you're referring to a paper based copy of the book as well.

If I read 300 pages, didnt put any bookmark but want to go to around page 132 how can I do that??? Yes I can remember that the stuff I want was between 130-140 pages but noway I can remember it was around some locations.
Sorry guys, while locations might be useful in finding a page on iPhone or smth it makes no sense to me in real life. At least they could've had both locations and page numbers where we could choose which one to use.

TheKindleWorm
09-11-2010, 11:43 AM
The thing is even with paper books, the same book eg Pride and Prejudice will have differing page numbers unless you get the exact same edition.

This was annoying at school and university because you could only ever rely on going to a particular chapter with a paper book and not a page number.

At least with studying with a Kindle, you'd all be on the same page :)

Tiersten
09-11-2010, 11:46 AM
If I read 300 pages, didnt put any bookmark but want to go to around page 132 how can I do that??? Yes I can remember that the stuff I want was between 130-140 pages but noway I can remember it was around some locations.
A page number is just a number as well. Same as a location. You just have to get used to page locations instead.

HarryT
09-11-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm afraid that's just the way it is. If you can't live with it, perhaps you'd be better off returning your Kindle and getting a reader that has page numbers.

pashlit
09-11-2010, 11:47 AM
Perhaps it is, but what use is a page number if it doesn't get you to the point in the book where you want to go? You said that you had read half of a book on another reader, and then bought a Kindle DX. Even if the Kindle did support page numbers, the page numbers that you had remembered on the other reader would be useless to you, because they wouldn't correspond on the Kindle. I really don't see what you would have gained, at all.



The Kindle supports collections, of course, which are very like folders.

Harry. collections are not folders. You cant create a folder on PC and just upload it to a device. I had like 150 docs on the device I had to group using collections. It was pretty uncomfortable and time consuming. May be you can argue its good to have tags instead of real folders but again I d prefer just having folders. I tried other device with folder support and it was very comfy and fast.

pashlit
09-11-2010, 11:48 AM
I'm afraid that's just the way it is. If you can't live with it, perhaps you'd be better off returning your Kindle and getting a reader that has page numbers.

Yep, might do that. I have 30 days I guess. Love the screen and other stuff but dont like colletions and locations. :rolleyes:

HarryT
09-11-2010, 11:49 AM
Oh yes, I'm well aware of the difference between folders and tags and, like you, I'd prefer real folder support. However, collections are at least better than nothing at all. If you need folders then there are of course many reading devices that do support them.

Tiersten
09-11-2010, 11:50 AM
Harry. collections are not folders. You cant create a folder on PC and just upload it to a device. I had like 150 docs on the device I had to group using collections. It was pretty uncomfortable and time consuming.
This tool would do that for you (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94261)

pashlit
09-11-2010, 11:52 AM
Oh yes, I'm well aware of the difference between folders and tags and, like you, I'd prefer real folder support. However, collections are at least better than nothing at all. If you need folders then there are of course many reading devices that do support them.

But there are no devices with Pearl screens!!!! Amazon bought them all:smack: Sony realeased a 6 inch with Pearl. Dunno about others. But I need a big guy, 9.7 inch or bigger. And they are not out yet. Cant wait to see whats gonna happen in Ocober with PB, SONY and others releasing there toys :thumbsup:

daffy4u
09-11-2010, 11:52 AM
Harry. collections are not folders. You cant create a folder on PC and just upload it to a device. I had like 150 docs on the device I had to group using collections. It was pretty uncomfortable and time consuming. May be you can argue its good to have tags instead of real folders but again I d prefer just having folders. I tried other device with folder support and it was very comfy and fast.

There is a MobileRead member who is taking beta testers for software to create and mange collections via a Windows computer. Read this (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94261) thread.

Tiersten
09-11-2010, 11:53 AM
But yes, if you really don't like the location system and the not quite a folder collection organisation then the Kindle is probably not the best for you. I find the collection system a little annoying sometimes but i've gotten used to it along with the location numbers.

daffy4u
09-11-2010, 11:54 AM
But there are no devices with Pearl screens!!!! Amazon bought them all:smack: Sony realeased a 6 inch with Pearl. Dunno about others. But I need a big guy, 9.7 inch or bigger. And they are not out yet. Cant wait to see whats gonna happen in Ocober with PB, SONY and others releasing there toys :thumbsup:

If you're within the 30 day DX purchase window, you may want to return it now until you see what happens with the other readers. You can always re-buy a DX if you don't see something better.

HarryT
09-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Are you familiar with the different ways of managing collections on the Kindle? There are a number of different ways to do it. The "slow" way is to select a book, then "Add to Collection", and choose which collections you want to add it to. That's rather painful for a lot of books. A much faster way is to open the collection, select "Add/Remove Items", and then choose which books you want to add or remove. That's enormously faster.

Madmanden
09-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Perhaps you should just stick to real books. Sounds more like your thing. ;)

As for locations - I've noticed that if I divide by ten it's usually not too far of the 'real' page number.

grizedale
09-11-2010, 02:24 PM
I would like to be able to turn the locations bar off, to be fully immersed in an ebook I would prefer not to know how long there is to the the end...

TheKindleWorm
09-11-2010, 03:33 PM
Perhaps you should just stick to real books. Sounds more like your thing. ;).

Even in jest, I don't think that's good advice :) I personally think there's an ebook device to suit everyone - it's just finding one that suits you.

I went through a few before deciding that a Kindle really suited me best. It's figuring out what works for you and perhaps in the OPs case, page numbers are a deal breaker.

JMikeD
09-11-2010, 03:59 PM
A few days ago, I came across a post that was complaining that the page numbers were worthless on his device, because they changed every time he adjusted the font size.

iBooks on the iPad uses page numbers, and they (the page numbers) are pretty worthless. They change not only with font size, but with page orientation.

I don’t see any difference between remembering I'm on page 427 as opposed to location 437.

sirmaru
09-11-2010, 04:14 PM
My Sony PRS 900 does use page numbers equivalent to the page numbers in the printed book. Font sizes do not alter the page numbers but do alter the size of that printed page from one screen to many screens.

Thus, the OP should buy that one instead of a Kindle WiFi LG 3.

For me locations are just fine. They are EXACTY like page numbers and with notes, highlights and bookmarks there is plenty of control

In the Sony PRS 900 too many highlights and / or notes and the ebook freezes. Unfreezing it loses all those items.

In the Kindle 3 one can go direct to any location and / or highlight, note or bookmark So far I have not discovered any limits to these locations however there may be a limit to highlights in particular books. I have hundreds of hightlights in my eBibles on the Kindle 3 and so far I have not reached any limit. Also, they do not end up freezing the device either.

andavane
09-11-2010, 04:50 PM
I was also confused by locations in the beginning, until I learned to look at it another way:

If I have a book with a certain paragraph I like on say page 58, that para will only be on the same page in another book in the same edition. When they bring out a new edition, my favourite para will, like as not, be on a different page. This has led to confusions. In one case when I was moderator on another forum I had to make frequent requests to members kindly to refer to which edition they were referring. Editions which were out of print never had the same page numbers as the newer editions, and this caused confusion galore.

You could use the word 'page' if you wanted to. Example:

In this copy of Tale of Two Cities, my location (page) is:

3548-56 / 6053.

Let's expand this to: 3548-3556 / 6053.

So you could think of the book as having 6053 little pages, and the page I'm on contains all the pages between 3,548-3,556.

You could if you want take a mean point and say you're on page 3,552 / 6053.

We could divide both sides by ten if we wanted, so if the book was 605 pages long, I'd be on page 355, or just over half way. 59% of the way through.

At least, that's the way I see it :)

Mike 01Hawk
09-11-2010, 06:46 PM
Again, I wish I could turn off locations so I DON'T know where I am in the book (physically so to speak).

grizedale
09-11-2010, 06:58 PM
Again, I wish I could turn off locations so I DON'T know where I am in the book (physically so to speak).

here here!

pashlit
09-11-2010, 08:33 PM
I was also confused by locations in the beginning, until I learned to look at it another way:

If I have a book with a certain paragraph I like on say page 58, that para will only be on the same page in another book in the same edition. When they bring out a new edition, my favourite para will, like as not, be on a different page. This has led to confusions. In one case when I was moderator on another forum I had to make frequent requests to members kindly to refer to which edition they were referring. Editions which were out of print never had the same page numbers as the newer editions, and this caused confusion galore.

You could use the word 'page' if you wanted to. Example:

In this copy of Tale of Two Cities, my location (page) is:

3548-56 / 6053.

Let's expand this to: 3548-3556 / 6053.

So you could think of the book as having 6053 little pages, and the page I'm on contains all the pages between 3,548-3,556.

You could if you want take a mean point and say you're on page 3,552 / 6053.

We could divide both sides by ten if we wanted, so if the book was 605 pages long, I'd be on page 355, or just over half way. 59% of the way through.

At least, that's the way I see it :)

Yeah, after I read your post I figured out how I can convert the 4727 locations in my book to the page number I need. It was not hard to figure out at the end. Still page numbers would be better for my use.
I think the next Kindle should be with folder support, Wacom touch screen and support more formats (c'mon, at least Epub). Other than that I like the device.

nimblem
09-11-2010, 09:21 PM
My old reader had page turn till the end of the book. Although they do change with font size, personally I liked it much better. I agree that locations are confusing.

Madmanden
09-12-2010, 05:27 AM
Again, I wish I could turn off locations so I DON'T know where I am in the book (physically so to speak).
While I can't figure out why someone would want that, it is at least easily solvable by masking the location bar with tape or something similar. :)

At least on the Kindle you don't have the physical book in your hands telling you if you're near the beginning or end. ;)

bluemoonjules
09-12-2010, 05:42 AM
Hmmm....guess this illustrates the benefit of researching features and functions before you buy......

matt314159
09-12-2010, 02:17 PM
I personally don't see why they can't have it user-selectable....so that if you want to use the "pages" convention (imperfect as that may be) you can use that system, and if you want "locations", you can use that. I kinda liked how the sony used "pages". If you bumped up the font, it just took more screens to get through that "page". It felt more like a "book" experience to me, and in that way, I actually preferred it. I still find the "locations" disconcerting. I like the progress bar but wish it would say I was on page 298 of 405 or whatever. The 405 number being based off the original mobi file in its default state.

Piper_
09-12-2010, 03:36 PM
I wish they'd give the option too. Locations and file management are the only two areas on which I felt like I was making a sacrifice when I decided on Kindle.

The search is ok for finding a known string in the Kindle. The trouble is going in the other direction; locations are no help in directing someone to a place in a pbook.

Calculating pages based on averages is something processors were made to do for us, so it would be nice if they at least did that, but even then, that calculation is only helpful for books of simple, linear text. It doesn't work for books with many linked or other formatted sections that throw everything off too much to be any use.

A ratio of screens views to paper pages is always going to be more dependable and easier to calculate than a ratio of bytes to paper.

HarryT
09-12-2010, 03:42 PM
The search is ok for finding a known string in the Kindle. The trouble is going in the other direction; locations are no help in directing someone to a place in a pbook.


They are equally no help for that. Suppose you're talking about a book like, say, "Pride and Prejudice" with 100 different paper editions, each of which is going to be paginated differently. What use is a page number for that? All that's meaningful to give if you want to direct someone to a particular location in the book is a chapter reference.

Dr. Bob
09-12-2010, 05:02 PM
Hi all. New here.

My vote goes to page numbers. I don't think it's a good idea to go against a convention that has been in use for hundreds of years. The solution is simple and has been mentioned in this thread a few times. You simply have to make a distinction between 'pages' and 'screens' as units when navigating through a text. When you enlarge your font moving through a single page will just take more screens. If in a given situation it would take 4 screens to make up one page in addition to the page number a percentage of the page you're on could be shown. Like:

Page 82 - 00%
Page 82 - 25%
Page 82 - 50%
Page 82 - 75%
Page 83 - 00%
Etc.

Was this really too difficult to grasp for Amazon?

I have no problem with supplying an additional method of navigating through a text like locations but I do have a problem with offering it as the only method. It's basically a proprietary formatting method that moves away from standardisation across platforms. And that's a bad thing.

Of course in order to use page numbers you have to position Page Break codes in a digital text. If Amazon hasn't taken the trouble to do this when they made their ebooks for the Kindle they have a problem addressing this issue. If indeed a location is a 128 byte chunk from the beginning of the file as I believe was mentioned in this thread then it's clear that no human intervention is required to calculate these location numbers. For using page numbers that human intervention would be required. Someone would have to decide where the page breaks go/ought to be if you want to keep them the same as a paper version of that book.

Of course if a book has never been published in paper format you'd need a different method to define a 'page'. It shouldn't be too hard to calculate the average number of characters/words on an average printed page and agree on using that number to calculate a page number. And if for reference purpose you want an exact location? Page xx (or Chapter xx) - Line yy should work (line meaning sentence). Computers are very good at keeping track of such numbers. They've been using something similar like that for quite some time in a rather well known book. Begins with a B. ;)

I don't have a Kindle and only use 'Kindle for PC' so far but found the use of locations annoying. It would definitely feature on the minus side of my list when deciding what e-reader to buy.

:cool:

desertgrandma
09-12-2010, 05:11 PM
BTW. Just today a new version of Kindle for PC has been released.
(Version 1.2.1 (30427) it says in the About info.

:cool:

Welcome to MobileRead, Bob. Click on my linky and introduce your self to let us welcome you properly.

Enjoyl

sirmaru
09-12-2010, 05:17 PM
The search is ok for finding a known string in the Kindle. The trouble is going in the other direction; locations are no help in directing someone to a place in a pbook.


You can use chapters. They are the same in both kinds of documents.

In Bibles this is easy since Books, Chapters and Verse numbers are EXACTLY the same. I read The One Year Bible NLT each day and make my notes in the KJV and NET. All are Kindle books and its easy going back and forth especially using the DVJ feature.

If one really wants pages, then use the Sony PRS 900. It uses print book page numbers but the number of screens per page varies depending on font sizes.

church mouse
09-12-2010, 05:41 PM
No solution will satisfy all.

On my Sony, how page numbers are used depends upon which format is being read. Epubs have "absolute" pages i.e. they remain the same no matter what font size is used, but people have complained on the Sony forum that this can mean you are shown being between pages eg. 32-33 etc.

In LRF my Sony will recalculate the page according to the font size one chooses - so page 100 will be different depending upon which font size I am reading in.

Personally, I like the epub system for pages, but I am getting used to locations whilst I test my Kindle out (I already have a feeling my like of epub pages will not be enough to tempt me back to my Sony).

emalvick
09-12-2010, 08:57 PM
As a new Kindle user (and new to ebooks), I have to say that I don't much care for Locations, but then I don't they are any worse than page numbers. Having gone through college where I was happy to buy an older edition of a text book, it became all too familiar to have page numbers be different. Even Chapters were different in those cases.

In terms of the original post, the easy, although probably imperfect, solution would be to look at what "page" or location you were on with respect to the total number of pages...

i.e. if you are on page 300 of a 600 page book, you could say you are 50% of the way through your book. You could then go to your ebook and based on the number of locations bring yourself to the 50% point of that book. For instance, if the same book had 8000 locations, you should put yourself to that location. You shouldn't be too far off from where you need to be.

That would probably be about as accurate as you could do if you were jumping from various printings of any other book. A page number is really only as good as keeping with that edition or printing of a book will do.

The other solution is to navigate to whatever chapter you were in if the book your in has chapters. That wouldn't be much different than the comments with respect to the Bible earlier in the thread.

Ultimately, I like the % reference on the location bar. Locations don't mean much to me, but then in reading a print book, page numbers only meant something with respect to my progress in the total of the book. I just cover more locations than I did with pages. Of course I'm not reading any faster, but it feels that way sometimes ;).

Alisa
09-12-2010, 09:31 PM
Hi all. New here.

My vote goes to page numbers. I don't think it's a good idea to go against a convention that has been in use for hundreds of years. The solution is simple and has been mentioned in this thread a few times. You simply have to make a distinction between 'pages' and 'screens' as units when navigating through a text. When you enlarge your font moving through a single page will just take more screens. If in a given situation it would take 4 screens to make up one page in addition to the page number a percentage of the page you're on could be shown. Like:

Page 82 - 00%
Page 82 - 25%
Page 82 - 50%
Page 82 - 75%
Page 83 - 00%
Etc.

Was this really too difficult to grasp for Amazon?

I have no problem with supplying an additional method of navigating through a text like locations but I do have a problem with offering it as the only method. It's basically a proprietary formatting method that moves away from standardisation across platforms. And that's a bad thing.

Of course in order to use page numbers you have to position Page Break codes in a digital text. If Amazon hasn't taken the trouble to do this when they made their ebooks for the Kindle they have a problem addressing this issue. If indeed a location is a 128 byte chunk from the beginning of the file as I believe was mentioned in this thread then it's clear that no human intervention is required to calculate these location numbers. For using page numbers that human intervention would be required. Someone would have to decide where the page breaks go/ought to be if you want to keep them the same as a paper version of that book.

Of course if a book has never been published in paper format you'd need a different method to define a 'page'. It shouldn't be too hard to calculate the average number of characters/words on an average printed page and agree on using that number to calculate a page number. And if for reference purpose you want an exact location? Page xx (or Chapter xx) - Line yy should work. Computers are very good at keeping track of such numbers. They've been using something similar like that for quite some time in a rather well known book. Begins with a B. ;)

I don't have a Kindle and only use 'Kindle for PC' so far but found the use of locations annoying. It would definitely feature on the minus side of my list when deciding what e-reader to buy.

:cool:


The problem comes more when the book has multiple editions. Most books have at least two. Believe me. Amazon has spent some time thinking about it. Personally I prefer a way to denote location that is consistent. Locations are within the Amazon and Mobipocket universe. So while I will take that over a changing "page" number any day, it is not my ideal. I like the previously mentioned chapter/paragraph scheme. Portable amongst file formats, printings, etc. After all, as more books go digital, the concept of a page becomes vestigial.

Piper_
09-12-2010, 09:46 PM
They are equally no help for that. Suppose you're talking about a book like, say, "Pride and Prejudice" with 100 different paper editions, each of which is going to be paginated differently. What use is a page number for that? All that's meaningful to give if you want to direct someone to a particular location in the book is a chapter reference.

I agree! Chapters --and sections-- definitely help and I'm for using them whenever possible. I was just comparing the relative merits of "Locations Vs. Screen counts."

On that question, I don't think they're equally no help, for the reason I gave:

A ratio of screens views to paper pages can be calculated. A ratio of bytes to paper pages cannot be calculated.

It isn't a deal breaker; I'm very happy with my Kindle :2thumbsup

I just wish they'd give me the page option, like I wish they'd give directories and epub support. :D

I understand no epub, but the only thing I can see locations being better at is locating a word or sentence inside an exact matching file version of title. It's not like the 100 editions of Pride and Prejudice will have consistent locations.

catsittingstill
09-12-2010, 10:26 PM
My vote goes for locations.

Much like page numbers, only more accurate, because they refer to smaller chunks of text.

readingaloud
09-13-2010, 04:27 AM
Most people would find locations more comprehensible if Amazon just divided by 10 and put in the decimal point for you. Then locations would be about the same size as pages, and it would be easier for most people to use them to get oriented in the book.

Dr. Bob
09-13-2010, 07:39 AM
To me the whole point is that once you use computer technology you're not restricted to using only one single method to designate a location in a text. It shouldn't be an "or" choice but an "and" choice. The question Amazon should have asked is: "What methods shall we offer our customers in addition to the page numbers they have been used to all of their life and will expect to be there, to find their way in the ebooks they pay us for?" Frankly I have few illusions that the main reason for their choice was that it's the method that requires the least effort on their part because location numbers can simply be calculated and require no human intervention/effort and human effort equates cost a.k.a. "money".

The fact that page numbers are not accurate across different paper publications of a book is not important. Obviously with paper books there is no alternative. The page size and font type and size will dictate spread over how many pages a text will be. But with computers? The possibilities are endless. First of all it will be no problem at all to keep the same page numbering between different editions of ebooks as long as the core text with the same page break codes doesn't change. Added introductions at the beginning? In print Roman numerals are used to separate numbering of parts of a book. Roman numerals could be used in ebooks and reading devices/software too. But you'd have to think of it and implement it before production. What else is there? Negative page numbers? That would also be an option. If Amazon releases a new edition with a foreword by someone will they have a method to keep locations the same in the core text as in the previous edition?

But hey... you can do anything(!!!) with computers. And e-readers are just (dedicated) computers. So at the bottom of the screen of whatever device you use it could(!) say:

Preamble - Page 1 (etc.)
Introduction - Page 1 (etc.)
Prologue - Page 1 (etc.)
Chapter 1 - Page 1 (etc.)
Chapter 2 - Page 32 (etc.)
Epilogue - Page 212 (etc.)
Or even:
Epilogue - Page 1 (etc.)

But also variations like:
Chapter One - How it all started - Page 1 (etc.)

Geddit? You are free to use any way you (the hardware and software designers let you) choose to tell you where you are in an e-text. And any of as many ways you want (the choices made by the hardware and software designers let you).

You know how on DVDs you can select a Language audio track? Or a commentary track? Or subtitles in many languages? Or even an extended version with some of the cut scenes put back in? Worried about inconsistencies with regards to page numbering? How about the following?

You open an e-book on your device which would have a settings menu with a page numbering sub-menu with the following choices:

Page numbering:
First edition - 1984 - Hardcover
First edition - 1984 - Paperback
Second edition - 1995 - Hardcover - With introduction by the author.
Second edition - 1995 - Paperback - With introduction by the author.
Selected works - 2008 - second of three books.
E-book - Chapter/Paragraph.
E-book - Chapter/Sentence.
E-book - Uniform Page Numbering (a yet fictional standard page numbering method).
E-book - Locations.

Notice how these e-book standards can do away with editions linked to a particular year.

And it would even be possible to show several of these at the same time:

Footer, Left: First edition - 1984 - Hardcover.
Footer, Centre: Chapter/Paragraph.
Footer, Right: Locations.

As far as I'm concerned this whole discussion is a non-issue if only hardware and software developers (and the business managers that employ them) would have an adequate vision on what the transition of print to e-book should offer us.

Unfortunately.... "The incompetents are running the Earth." And we risk getting stuck with bad choices made by those in the positions to make these choices for us.

:cool:

Nicky_oz
09-14-2010, 06:45 AM
It looks like the Kindle 3 doesn't have page numbers either?

I couldn't work it out from the user guide or the Kindle itself, interesting to hear what people think on this thread, however I find it a bit pointless, locations are only good for a Kindle..if you are transferring accross a device that doesn't support 'locations' then it's just useless. Hopefully Amazon will fix it next time. i have to say, with my Nook and on the medium font the page numbers were the same as the printed book (compared side by side).

TheKindleWorm
09-14-2010, 07:09 AM
I have to say I find it surprising how much importance many people seem to place on page numbers. If you want to remember certain parts of a book, use bookmarks. If you want to relate to a printed book, type in a search term from the printed matter to get to the same spot in your Kindle. And if you want to know how far you are in a book, just look at the progress bar at the bottom which shows the percentage read.

Just seems like people are really digging to find criticisms sometimes - or maybe it's because I'm more of a "my glass is half full" type person and I always like to look at the positives!

pashlit
09-14-2010, 09:13 AM
I have to say I find it surprising how much importance many people seem to place on page numbers. If you want to remember certain parts of a book, use bookmarks. If you want to relate to a printed book, type in a search term from the printed matter to get to the same spot in your Kindle. And if you want to know how far you are in a book, just look at the progress bar at the bottom which shows the percentage read.

Just seems like people are really digging to find criticisms sometimes - or maybe it's because I'm more of a "my glass is half full" type person and I always like to look at the positives!

Its not because of that. Its because what is more comfortable for people. Yes, at least having a choice between locations and page numbers would be a good idea. Its not hard I think to implement this feature. I dont find locations that difficult but I would definitely prefer using page numbers. I am not saying locations should be removed. If people like em, let em be. But I just want to have page numbers as well as many other people want.

TheKindleWorm
09-14-2010, 09:22 AM
Yes I'm starting to wonder if it is perhaps like some sort of nostalgia tied up with reading paper books? Perhaps some people also miss the smell or feel of paper books too - my father always sniffs new magazines or books which I find odd but well ...

I guess Amazon maybe should think about implementing page numbers as well seeing as so many people seem to feel so strongly about it.

Percyiris
09-14-2010, 09:43 AM
Well, I'll throw in my two cents; I can't seem to get used to locations either. The page/location option would be my preference. As a previous writer noted, it wasn't a deal breaker though. I never really used locations anyway on my DX. It's this discussion that got me thinking about it.

Madmanden
09-14-2010, 09:50 AM
I think I mentioned it before, but for people who like having page numbers, dividing the location by ten (just remove the last digit) seems to work pretty well. So if a book has 3752 locations = 375 pages.

JSWolf
09-14-2010, 09:57 AM
I do like the way ADE does page numbers. They aren't perfect, but at least they work well enough regardless of the orientation/font size.

warp
09-14-2010, 10:25 AM
For me locations are the intelligent answer to the problem how different screen sizes, font sizes etc affect the book page numbering. Sure there is a difference to physical books, but while reading I watch the percentage and not the location number...

gca3020
09-14-2010, 01:30 PM
To me the whole point is that once you use computer technology you're not restricted to using only one single method to designate a location in a text. It shouldn't be an "or" choice but an "and" choice. The question Amazon should have asked is: "What methods shall we offer our customers in addition to the page numbers they have been used to all of their life and will expect to be there, to find their way in the ebooks they pay us for?" Frankly I have few illusions that the main reason for their choice was that it's the method that requires the least effort on their part because location numbers can simply be calculated and require no human intervention/effort and human effort equates cost a.k.a. "money".

The fact that page numbers are not accurate across different paper publications of a book is not important. Obviously with paper books there is no alternative. The page size and font type and size will dictate spread over how many pages a text will be. But with computers? The possibilities are endless. First of all it will be no problem at all to keep the same page numbering between different editions of ebooks as long as the core text with the same page break codes doesn't change. Added introductions at the beginning? In print Roman numerals are used to separate numbering of parts of a book. Roman numerals could be used in ebooks and reading devices/software too. But you'd have to think of it and implement it before production. What else is there? Negative page numbers? That would also be an option. If Amazon releases a new edition with a foreword by someone will they have a method to keep locations the same in the core text as in the previous edition?

But hey... you can do anything(!!!) with computers. And e-readers are just (dedicated) computers. So at the bottom of the screen of whatever device you use it could(!) say:

Preamble - Page 1 (etc.)
Introduction - Page 1 (etc.)
Prologue - Page 1 (etc.)
Chapter 1 - Page 1 (etc.)
Chapter 2 - Page 32 (etc.)
Epilogue - Page 212 (etc.)
Or even:
Epilogue - Page 1 (etc.)

But also variations like:
Chapter One - How it all started - Page 1 (etc.)

Geddit? You are free to use any way you (the hardware and software designers let you) choose to tell you where you are in an e-text. And any of as many ways you want (the choices made by the hardware and software designers let you).

You know how on DVDs you can select a Language audio track? Or a commentary track? Or subtitles in many languages? Or even an extended version with some of the cut scenes put back in? Worried about inconsistencies with regards to page numbering? How about the following?

You open an e-book on your device which would have a settings menu with a page numbering sub-menu with the following choices:

Page numbering:
First edition - 1984 - Hardcover
First edition - 1984 - Paperback
Second edition - 1995 - Hardcover - With introduction by the author.
Second edition - 1995 - Paperback - With introduction by the author.
Selected works - 2008 - second of three books.
E-book - Chapter/Paragraph.
E-book - Chapter/Sentence.
E-book - Uniform Page Numbering (a yet fictional standard page numbering method).
E-book - Locations.

Notice how these e-book standards can do away with editions linked to a particular year.

And it would even be possible to show several of these at the same time:

Footer, Left: First edition - 1984 - Hardcover.
Footer, Centre: Chapter/Paragraph.
Footer, Right: Locations.

As far as I'm concerned this whole discussion is a non-issue if only hardware and software developers (and the business managers that employ them) would have an adequate vision on what the transition of print to e-book should offer us.

Unfortunately.... "The incompetents are running the Earth." And we risk getting stuck with bad choices made by those in the positions to make these choices for us.

:cool:

The problem with this approach is how expensive it would be to do. You would have to manually have a person go in and number these sections, then have a copy editor double-check.

The comparison to DVDs isn't really valid, since a DVD represents far more man-hours for a single product than a book does, and therefore will likely have little touches like this. Imagine if any time a publisher wanted to put a book from their back catalog in Kindle format, they had to have a person spend (at minimum) a day adding in section headers, or worse going through 5-10 old editions and plugging in page numbers manually?

Let's say a single man-day of work (though I think that's being *very* conservative). Now say they want to do this for 2,000 books in their back catalog. That's 5.5 man-years.

Now compare that to an automated process that creates a new location every 128 bytes (characters). This process is entirely automated and will likely take a few seconds per book. All of a sudden you can do 2000 books in less than a day.

I'm not saying that e-books don't deserve better treatment, certainly we've all run into more typos and editing mistakes than exist in p-books, but that right now it's simply not profitable to spend a lot of time giving them the attention they deserve.

Now me personally, I've only ever really used the percentage progress bar at the bottom of the Kindle (in the few weeks since I've had one), and it does me fine. I do really like the tip about dividing location by 10, however, and will certainly keep that one in mind, but I really do think if you can pull yourself out of a p-book paradigm, Amazon's solution does make the most sense.

Also keep in mind that having a lot of settings and options to change things is not something that Amazon wants to do. They want their devices to appeal to a broad demographic, not just gadget people (and lets face it, if you're on an internet message board, you're already more of a gadget person than the general populace). My fiancé's grandmother saw the Kindle last weekend and immediately (within 2 minutes) knew how to use it. She has never owned a computer or gone on the internet. This is a woman who needs directions to operate a digital photo frame. If Amazon wants to be a success in this business, it's her and people like her they need to grab. Not you and me.

Dr. Bob
09-14-2010, 02:38 PM
The problem with this approach is how expensive it would be to do. You would have to manually have a person go in and number these sections, then have a copy editor double-check.

The comparison to DVDs isn't really valid, since a DVD represents far more man-hours for a single product than a book does, and therefore will likely have little touches like this. Imagine if any time a publisher wanted to put a book from their back catalog in Kindle format, they had to have a person spend (at minimum) a day adding in section headers, or worse going through 5-10 old editions and plugging in page numbers manually?

If publishers have done things intelligently then they will have files with the text of at least every book they published in the last few decades. It's quite conceivable it should be possible to not only use these to create the e-books but also to extract page break positions from these files. IF they've managed these files the way they should have. This might be a pretty big if.

And effort/cost? How much effort do you think goes into getting a book ready for printing? A printer has many requirements with regards to the files they get sent by the publishers. Then there's the effort/cost of producing the physical book and let's not forget the effort/cost that is taken up by the logistics of getting the books to the readers. Once an e-book is on Amazon's servers the entire logistics process is automated. No human intervention/effort required anymore and negligible cost. What is saved there surely can be used to properly prepare a book for its e-incarnation.


Also keep in mind that having a lot of settings and options to change things is not something that Amazon wants to do. They want their devices to appeal to a broad demographic, not just gadget people (and lets face it, if you're on an internet message board, you're already more of a gadget person than the general populace). My fiancé's grandmother saw the Kindle last weekend and immediately (within 2 minutes) knew how to use it. She has never owned a computer or gone on the internet. This is a woman who needs directions to operate a digital photo frame. If Amazon wants to be a success in this business, it's her and people like her they need to grab. Not you and me.

Of course e-readers must be user-friendly but that's mostly done by selecting adequate defaults to require little or no user interaction for straightforward reading and designing a properly thought out user interface for additional tweaking of the user's preferences if he desires to do so. It needn't be more difficult than using the menus on a DVD. The presence of these menus don't seem to have impeded the sales of DVD players. E-readers manufacturers should wish for the same level of market penetration as DVD players.

In the end I think it's mostly a matter of mentality. Whether you choose to sell something that takes the least effort/cost to produce and you can get away with selling to the public without them protesting too much or whether you are motivated to offer the best product you are able to create.

I'm afraid all too many people fall into the first category.

:cool:

Purple Lady
09-16-2010, 01:31 AM
Most people would find locations more comprehensible if Amazon just divided by 10 and put in the decimal point for you. Then locations would be about the same size as pages, and it would be easier for most people to use them to get oriented in the book.

This is pretty much what my thought was - instead of 128 byte chunks of text, why not 1280 byte chunks of text and forget the decimal point? I think the problem is just that you end up with 4 digits for location and multiple locations per screen instead of 3 digits for pages which is easier to remember (for me at least)

I saw a thread a few months back that asked "when people ask what page number you are on, what do you tell them?" Since my reader uses epub which has page numbers that stay the same no matter what font size you use this question completely confused me. This explains that question for me.

xnowimcoolx
09-16-2010, 03:20 AM
From an academic background page numbers are of the utmost importance. Although I've never asked I can't imagine any of my profs being keen on me citing a kindle number as a page number.

Once for a course I actually read a book on my kindle, used it as a source and then went to the library to track down page numbers and cited the library edition of the book rather than the kindle edition. It was a royal pain!

Page numbers should be incorporated if for only that reason.

Tomsk
09-16-2010, 08:01 AM
From an academic background page numbers are of the utmost importance. Although I've never asked I can't imagine any of my profs being keen on me citing a kindle number as a page number.

Once for a course I actually read a book on my kindle, used it as a source and then went to the library to track down page numbers and cited the library edition of the book rather than the kindle edition. It was a royal pain!

Page numbers should be incorporated if for only that reason.

The example you've used illustrates that page numbers are not ideal for referencing a position within a book.
Your professors would have had to obtain the same edition of the book if they wanted to check your references.


From my observations, it seems that Kindle location numbers refer to the sentences, subject to a minimum number of words per sentence.

I think the best method of referencing a position in a book would be chapter and paragraph number. Using sentence number is a bit too unwieldy especially if the position is in the middle of a long paragraph. A chapter and paragraph number would be independent of the book format (hardback, paperback, ebook, braille) and font size. There could still be differences between editions though.

For me personally I never had to bother with page numbers in pbooks, so kindle's locations or percentage bar don't bother me either.

Raheldm
09-16-2010, 08:15 AM
During my studies the professor often had a diffrent edition of a book and I had to search through it to find the important pages. One time the professor even had to go through our book to help us with the pages because everything was messed up and nobody could follow him anymore.
I don't get the problems with the locations.

isotherm
09-16-2010, 09:19 AM
I have a Kindle book with 100,000+ "locations." :smack: The physical editions of this book all have the same page numbering (they just enlarged or shrunk the page). The footnotes often reference page numbers, which are hyperlinked in the Kindle edition. Therefore it is sometimes possible to find a page number in the physical edition by searching for "p297" or such -- if there is a footnote referring to that page. I use the book sometimes in a group context, and it is still annoying if they say "turn to page such-and-such," and I have to ask for some text on the page to search for. Nonetheless, I knew of this limitation before I got an eBook reader. To me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for certain applications.

If a publisher has an eBook where page numbers are important (for example, a textbook), it might help for them to include a section at the end with hyperlinks to every page (p1 p2 p3 etc). Then they would show up in a search. If page numbers are a necessity, it seems like PDF is the best option, since it retains the analogue of paper pages.

HarryT
09-16-2010, 09:22 AM
From my observations, it seems that Kindle location numbers refer to the sentences, subject to a minimum number of words per sentence.


No, they are a count of units of 128 bytes in the file. This has been repeatedly stated throughout this thread.

pashlit
09-16-2010, 09:30 AM
I have a Kindle book with 100,000+ "locations." :smack: The physical editions of this book all have the same page numbering (they just enlarged or shrunk the page). The footnotes often reference page numbers, which are hyperlinked in the Kindle edition. Therefore it is sometimes possible to find a page number in the physical edition by searching for "p297" or such -- if there is a footnote referring to that page. I use the book sometimes in a group context, and it is still annoying if they say "turn to page such-and-such," and I have to ask for some text on the page to search for. Nonetheless, I knew of this limitation before I got an eBook reader. To me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages for certain applications.

If a publisher has an eBook where page numbers are important (for example, a textbook), it might help for them to include a section at the end with hyperlinks to every page (p1 p2 p3 etc). Then they would show up in a search. If page numbers are a necessity, it seems like PDF is the best option, since it retains the analogue of paper pages.

PDF is like ghetto workaround on Kindle. If I want pages I have to convert to PDF. If I want to read in other language with different encoding I have to convert to pdf... etc. But then I loose hyperlinks, dictionary supports, annotations, text resizing and other stuff. PDF support is horrible on Kindle. Is it so darn hard for Kindle programmers just to include all that stuff? Its a pretty expensive device (I am talking about DX) so it should have descent feauters. I like the device, its feel and other stuff but the lack of some simple things makes me look towards other gadgets.:cool:

Sischa
09-16-2010, 09:30 AM
Reminds me about the painful discussion between people asking still for folders and others moving on to tags and categories.

There will always be some people living in vers. 1.0 and crying about changing things and others who see the advantages from 2.0 and "live" them.

I can see no point in trying to explain the advantages if someone tries to ignore them. There are still products wich are doing it the "1.0 way" like using pages, folders, mp3 players with the option to simple copy&paste files ... get yourself one of this.

Locations are one of the best inventions in ebooks they make life so damn easily (especially for readers or books which don't support synchronisation). :2thumbsup

SirCumference
09-16-2010, 09:37 AM
I really enjoy the location feature and am glad it is uniform for Kindle devices. In this way I can ask a fellow Kindle user what location they are on and easily get to the same place. On the same token I can simply ask anyone using a physical copy of the book what chapter they are on or some phrase and such to search for. Generally if someone is trying to direct you to a certain place in a book there was something memorable about the place in the book, and a chapter or phrase is much more likely to be floating around in their head than a page number which may or may not help you. Hopefully locations will become the new standard for ebooks. It certainly doesn't help to have a page number if it doesn't correlate to anything at all when it comes down to different editions. I don't see how anyone can argue the point that page numbers and locations aren't exactly the same thing except that locations are actually a more accurate representation of where you are in the book and that chapters or a searchable phrase are not the best possible means to reference your place between formats/editions.

Tomsk
09-16-2010, 09:41 AM
No, they are a count of units of 128 bytes in the file. This has been repeatedly stated throughout this thread.

oops! :smack: I skimmed this thread and missed that.

RonF
09-16-2010, 09:57 AM
This is pretty much what my thought was - instead of 128 byte chunks of text, why not 1280 byte chunks of text and forget the decimal point? I think the problem is just that you end up with 4 digits for location and multiple locations per screen instead of 3 digits for pages which is easier to remember (for me at least)For me at least, part of the issue is the multiple locations :p If they just put the location that is at the top of the viewed page instead of all of the locations on the page, it would work smoother for me.

So instead of Locations 1046-56, it would just read Location 1046. I don't know if it's just me, but that would translate more to having page numbers. :chinscratch:

SirCumference
09-16-2010, 10:00 AM
Makes sense. Perhaps locations are too accurate then but your dilemma that it should only list the first part of the location instead of the dash indicating there are more locations on the page is simple. Stop reading past the first part of the location.

ivanjt
09-16-2010, 12:17 PM
Locations are useless for me and the PDF manuals that I use my DX for. The index and contents uses pages and I need something like a 'go to page number' to get to the section I need without having to page through everything.

Before anyone asks why did I get a DX - simple answer - screen size.

HarryT
09-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Locations are useless for me and the PDF manuals that I use my DX for. The index and contents uses pages and I need something like a 'go to page number' to get to the section I need without having to page through everything.


It sounds more as if what you need is hyperlink support in a PDF file - something which the Kindle is almost alone in not providing. That way you could simply use the hyperlinks in the TOC and index.

pashlit
09-16-2010, 12:26 PM
Locations are useless for me and the PDF manuals that I use my DX for. The index and contents uses pages and I need something like a 'go to page number' to get to the section I need without having to page through everything.

Before anyone asks why did I get a DX - simple answer - screen size.

Same here. Only because of screen size and Pearl screen I got DX. There are no competitors so far to DX. :angry:

andavane
09-16-2010, 12:30 PM
The value of locations is shown in this post http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98847
where a very small section of text is focused on.

Purple Lady
09-16-2010, 04:26 PM
For me at least, part of the issue is the multiple locations :p If they just put the location that is at the top of the viewed page instead of all of the locations on the page, it would work smoother for me.

So instead of Locations 1046-56, it would just read Location 1046. I don't know if it's just me, but that would translate more to having page numbers. :chinscratch:

which leads back to the question of why didn't they just have static page numbers in the first place. That should make the people who like locations happy because they are the same on every device and just make more logical sense.

I wonder what the person who first decided to use locations thinks of their decision now. I know I look back on programs I wrote years ago and wonder what in the world was I thinking. Since page numbers could be built on a specific number of bytes, implementation of page numbers shouldn't be much different than locations are.

susan_cassidy
09-16-2010, 05:05 PM
Because, if you have the font size set to very large, you might have the same "page number" on more than one screen, which would not help you go to a specific part of the book.

Regarding why they display 1046-56, and you only want 1046, why is having more information than you feel you need a problem? Only look at the first number, and ignore the rest, and others of us can use both numbers, if we want.

Purple Lady
09-16-2010, 05:17 PM
I have a very large font and have the same page number on multiple screens and don't see a problem with that. It's the same as reading a pdf or a word doc on your pc - you will always have the same page number on multiple screens with a larger font.

I guess this is personal preference thing where not everyone can have their choice. I've seen multiple posts asking for the choice to display what you want - isn't one of the features of ereaders the ability to view according to your needs? Amazon should offer a choice. I didn't realize so many people would prefer locations.

RonF
09-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Because, if you have the font size set to very large, you might have the same "page number" on more than one screen, which would not help you go to a specific part of the book.

Regarding why they display 1046-56, and you only want 1046, why is having more information than you feel you need a problem? Only look at the first number, and ignore the rest, and others of us can use both numbers, if we want.
Which would be why I started my post with "For me at least," and "it would work smoother for me" Everyone has their likes and dislikes, and if this is the worst thing there is, I'm a happy camper ;) Glad you like it the way it is - for me, this device would be a little better with a little less info. But it is nothing that is bothering me to any degree, just another viewpoint that I wanted to mention.

TheKindleWorm
09-16-2010, 05:35 PM
Wouldn't it be great if you could build a Kindle to order. Choose your casing style and colour and then customise the firmware onboard. Bit like an off-the-peg computer. That way everyone could choose what they wanted.

I think I'd plump for bamboo casing with memory card slot for unlimited extendable memory, a slide out keyboard please to make device not much bigger than the screen which would be made of unbreakable and scratch resistant plastic. In my dreams ...

Purple Lady
09-16-2010, 06:23 PM
well then I want a purple one with all the other stuff you said:)

but non hardware stuff should have some optons.

xnowimcoolx
09-16-2010, 06:34 PM
The example you've used illustrates that page numbers are not ideal for referencing a position within a book.
Your professors would have had to obtain the same edition of the book if they wanted to check your references.

My point is that using the kindle system is meaningless to any professor unless he/she BOTH has a kindle AND has purchased the book on the kindle (possible, but unlikely). Page system means that although the proper edition needs to be tracked down, a library should have it (especially if, for instance, the work is being done at a major university).

Piper_
09-16-2010, 08:08 PM
Locations are and always will be a flawed system as long as they count bytes instead of visible text.

None of my reasons for not liking locations has to do with a nostalgia for the smell or feel of paper books or a refusal to adapt to a new paradigm. :cool:

I don't like them because they are bad UI, misleading (precision != accuracy), and they don't and won't even match across files of the same exact title within the same format.

There are a million things I love about my Kindle, but whether a weakness affects me personally or not, I'd like to see the technology be the best it can be. :)

We need a standard that works at least somewhat across platforms, and any method that measures bytes doesn't even make it to the table.

TheJohnNewton
09-17-2010, 08:39 AM
What I understand a "page" to be is the amount of content that fits on one unit of a display for a given formatting of the content. A display could be a piece of paper or an electronic screen. In either case the size of the display, the font used, the spacing, the formatting will all alter the amount of content that makes up one page.

An important characteristic of a page is that it is a function of the content (the text and any graphics), the display size, and the formatting. Because of this when you alter any of these three factors the paging changes. This is true for any kind of display be it paper or electronic.

Now I have ebooks on my reader that have static "page" numbers embedded in the text. I realize these are an attempt to reference the ebook content back to some unknown printed version of (hopefully) the same content. While I understand why somebody would find this useful how am I to know what printed version was used to determine this paging? What if there is no printed version? What if there are multiple printed versions? What if their are multiple editions of the content? And most confusing to me, shouldn't the page number on MY EREADER be based on the amount of content that I see on MY SCREEN rather than some unknown theoretical paper version? When ebooks become the dominate format are paper books going to have theoretical ebook based page number scattered throughout their pages?

captcrouton
09-17-2010, 10:01 AM
I vote with locations because as many books as I've read, I've only seen one page on my Kindle. What I would love is to have the screen saver match the book. Often people see the screen saver and they think I"m reading that author. Silly muggles.

In other news, I think that Alexander Dumas looks fresh off the cast of Welcome Back Kotter. But that's for another forum.

jempweber
09-30-2011, 02:18 PM
My biggest problem with Kindle is that I'm using binominal keys, i.e. Plant Key:
0:
Plant with flowers: go to 1
Plant without flowers: go to 2
1:
three or more flower petals: go to 3
less than three flower petals: go to 12
2:
woody plant: go to 24
non-woody plant: go to 32
3:
white flowers: go to PAGE 142
other colour: go to 4
4:
... You'll get the idea :-)

If I had a flowering plant with 5 white petals, I had to go to page 142, however on Kindle that is not possible with its locations in 128 bit steps... Any recommendation for an ereader with a way to find the original page numbers from the paper copy would be very much appreciated

DiapDealer
09-30-2011, 02:39 PM
Whoever converted that particular physical book to an ebook should have been smart enough to convert those hard coded cross-references to hyperlinks. That's hardly something that an eReader manufacturer is going to able to account for.

HarryT
10-01-2011, 05:45 AM
Precisely. Cross-references in eBook should be hyperlinks. That's an example of a "quick and nasty" eBook conversion, where the publisher didn't take the time to replace the page number references by hyperlinks.

jpl83
12-14-2011, 01:21 PM
How about I'm reading a non fiction book and I want go go to Chapter 47 from the table of contents. How do I find that on my Kindle?
Thanks

HarryT
12-14-2011, 01:25 PM
How about I'm reading a non fiction book and I want go go to Chapter 47 from the table of contents. How do I find that on my Kindle?
Thanks

How do you find what? The table of contents? Tap the top of the screen to display the menus, then "Goto", "Table of Contents".