I like the iRex mainly because of its larger screen and 16 gray scales but the $700 price is absurd, $500 is a more reasonable for me. SONY is way more affordable at $350. I'll be using it mainly to read PDF files. I know iRex has zoom function while SONY doesn't but I was wondering if using the solution below will make the PDF more readable, is there a video show this method? I also read about pdfrastafarian for the SONY which I'll explore.

When displaying PDF documents, the Reader offers two sizing options, small (S) or medium (M). These sizes are available in both orientation options. If the PDF document is too small to be read in Vertical, change the orientation to Horizontal to display the document.

Which one should I buy iRex or SONY?

If only there was a forum here titled "Which one should I buy (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=123)"... ;)

BTW, the Reader offers three sizing options; small, medium and large.

Thanks looks like iRex is for me but I'll think it over and over since $700 is a rip-off.

I've purchased 5 Sony Readers and only one has failed.
I've had three different iLiad's and they've all failed.
Reader is a local (inside US) repair/return, iLiad is a return to Germany and I've been back billed by UPS $104 for shipping to return one unit.
The Sony has working power management, you can slide the switch to suspend/unsuspend it and it responds in seconds. The iLiad needs 10's of seconds to turn on/off.
You can legally purchase from a collection of over 11,000 ebooks for the Reader, you can't for the iLiad. Yeah I know, you try to convince yourself you'll only read PDF's for work, but then you download Teaching the Au Pair to Submit from the Sony Store and your fate is sealed. :)

For me, the near instant on/off has been the "Killer App".

Wow that is one good reason of not purchasing the iRex iLiad but from my POV, the SONY screen is way too small, my range would be 8-10 inch. Maybe I should wait for Jinke V9 which should be available by end of 2007.

If it's all about size for you - get the iLiad. If you want battery life and easy of use - get the Sony. It depends very much on what kind of reading material you plan to use. Check out the various threads posted here with photos comparing the two readers.

I was steered to the iLiad until scotty1024 revealed his experience with it. Last thing I need is a $700 lemon. I was thinking of getting the SONY for $250 and then in 2008 get Jinke's 10' V9. I think this is the best route for me. I save $450 and has a lower risk of product malfunction and cheaper cost of repair.

I was steered to the iLiad until scotty1024 revealed his experience with it. Last thing I need is a $700 lemon. I was thinking of getting the SONY for $250 and then in 2008 get Jinke's 10' V9. I think this is the best route for me. I save $450 and has a lower risk of product malfunction and cheaper cost of repair.

Well... Always remember those who've had bad experiences tend to be the most vocal... And people have been quoted > $200 to get screens replaced on the Reader...

The Sony Reader is more of a consumer product for reading pre-packaged bestsellers, versus a more flexible b2b product.

But if you can't afford $700 for a reader then don't buy it...! Bit of a no-brainer...!

It's not that I can't afford it, I just don't want to make a bad investment. I'm again geared towards the iLiad since my choice is either to own 1 iLiad or 1 SONY reader and 1 Hanlin V9, the price difference becomes smaller. I like the iLiad more but don't like the cost of future repairs. What is the warranty period on the iLiad?

Ouch just programming on the iLiad can damage it and you can't fix it by yourself!! You have to pay 75 EURO to reflash it. Plus they have horrible tech support according to some users.
http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?t=922&highlight=warranty
I wanted to get the iLiad because there utilities available online but now I'm scared of doing any programming on it since I'm not a programmer, so I WILL make mistakes.

Ouch just programming on the iLiad can damage it and you can't fix it by yourself!! You have to pay 75 EURO to reflash it. Plus they have horrible tech support according to some users.
http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?t=922&highlight=warranty
I wanted to get the iLiad because there utilities available online but now I'm scared of doing any programming on it since I'm not a programmer, so I WILL make mistakes.

Again you are listening to all the "horror stories"... There's no current SDK although one is planned real, soon, now. If you don't want to brick it then wait until there is a supported SDK... Dunno about you but tech support seems fine with Irex regularly answering questions...

I wish you were right but according to the poll below iLiad does not have a good reputation. The poll is small so hopefully more people will vote, right now it does not look good, I'm swaying back to the SONY Reader. The more I read on iRex iLiad, the bleaker it's future looks. Philips should just buy the company and take over it so it'll be on par with SONY.
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8002

I wish you were right but according to the poll below iLiad does not have a good reputation.

That poll shows that of 15 people nearly 50 % think its reliable and nearly 50 % think it isn't... Not very representative...

I'm swaying back to the SONY Reader. The more I read on iRex iLiad, the bleaker it's future looks.

Well... Up to you... I think everyone who has one wouldn't swap...! The Iliad is a good product if you focus on what it *can* do. There's too much focus (on these boards and elsewhere) what it *can't* do it. If you buy for the former you'll think its great, but if you buy it for the latter you will be disappointed...!

I've made my choice. I'm buying a SONY. Thanks for all the help. $250 not a bad price. I'll get the Hanlin V9 next year, I think it'll be the same price as the iLiad.

50/50 is not a good sign. A product must have overwhelming positive reviews to be a success, like movies, 2.5 stars out of 5 is not good, it's needs 4 stars to be good. SONY here I come. iRex, go to Philips and sell yourself!

What follows is entirely IMHO: (Sorry, kinda long)
I have to agree with Jaed, concentrate on what the device can do for you, not on what it can't do. None of these devices brew a cup of coffee, but that's not what they were intended for. Yes, the iLiad is darn pricey and it was a bit oversold in terms of promised features. Some of those have been added over time (scribble, some form of annotation) and others are promised soon. I have both devices, the iLiad and the Sony Reader. They are two very different devices. I was attracted to the iLiad for the larger screen, ability to read PDF which is my preferred format for both professional and personal reading. Currently, it is my preferred device. I am not a programmer, just a user and for what I do which is read documents and e-books, it does just fine most of the time. The iLiad is somewhat fragile and if not for some good cases, mine would've been history long ago. I don't think I'd bother to repair mine if it did bust, because of the long delays and the costs of both repair and shipping. I'll admit the iLiad is not a great consumer device as there is no bookstore or desktop interface, but it probably wasn't intended to be that in its first gen manifestation. The Sony Reader is a more consumer-friendly device, even though the Connect bookstore and desktop interface is not as sophisticated as say iTunes. If you are interested in mostly reading popular, newer major publisher works and being locked into the Sony DRM doesn't bother you then the Reader is for you. I haven't invested in a lot of Sony BBeB books because for now I see no way I can adapt to another device (like my PDA or another e-reader) currently and possibly in the future. I have no trouble finding the books I prefer to read (yes, BobR, it's still romance) through other means than the Sony bookstore. My Reader is gathering dust lately mainly because I dislike spending the time to adapt my pdfs for the Reader or convert them to RTFs. I do appreciate the device's sturdiness, bookmarking capability, and its instant-on boot time and power management is superior to the iLiad's. I was very pleased to read Sir Howard's encouraging words about the future of the Reader. It's great that there are a growing number of e-reading devices being developed and hopefully some of these will have commercial success and longevity.
Glad you made up your mind, rsuryase. Good luck.

Well... Always remember those who've had bad experiences tend to be the most vocal...

Again you are listening to all the "horror stories"...
This kind of logic is not of much use, if you are the one with the problem...
(nothing bad meant :) )

rsuryase - The Sony is $350, do you have a discount to get it for $250?

Also iRex I believe is majority owned by Philips still. It was originally a spin-off company from Philips and I imagine they still maintain a pretty large stake in it.

I recently bought an Irex Iliad (firmware 2.8) and I am quite content with the device. Main advantages (to me) are:

- A big screen (larger than the Sony), so easier on the eyes
- 16 colors (vs. 4 for Sony)
- Possibility to make notes on PDF. This is a really nice feature of the Iliad!
- Zoom possibilities makes it easy to read almost every text.
- No conversion needed: The Iliad reads standard PDF and HTML (and several other formats).
- Usability: The Iliad is very easy to operate. I like the flipbar (to flip pages) very much. I can't compare to Sony however.
-Regular updates, with very easy install using WIFI.
- No DRM: I don't want to "hire" content and become dependent to the software supplier or become limited to one device.

For the techies:
- Linux inside so I can adapt the device to my needs if I'd like to. For example I can add a chess program and a calculator. But it is also possible

I now have more than 4 Gb of pdf's ready to be read on my Iliad. In my Iliad I have a MMC card with 1 Gb of books (computer, business, philosophy, life sciences/biology, literature). Great!

I also own an iLiad. So far the biggest downside for me is the (bad to non-existant) power-management. And as you can see from some of my posts I am no fan of DRM.

@Rene:
the Sony Reader could also have the badge "Linux inside" on it. But there is one problem about adapting the device, so far there is no way of reflashing the iLiad without sending it back to the repair center and paying a 75 EUR fee.
And as everything is running as "root" on the iLiad, I wouldn't want to touch anything.

I also own an iLiad. So far the biggest downside for me is the (bad to non-existant) power-management. And as you can see from some of my posts I am no fan of DRM.

@Rene:
the Sony Reader could also have the badge "Linux inside" on it. But there is one problem about adapting the device, so far there is no way of reflashing the iLiad without sending it back to the repair center and paying a 75 EUR fee.
And as everything is running as "root" on the iLiad, I wouldn't want to touch anything.

You are completely right. The non-existent power management is a problem. Although, I don't have a problem switching the device off. It will take 10 s to restart and double press the News/Books/Docs/Notes keys will bring my last read document back (I like this behaviour).

Indeed, you will have to pay for reflashing, but I didn't get a root account for my Iliad.

Hi

I bought a SONY reader about 3 months ago and I kind of think it was a waste.
It's a closed system.
The iRex is way more open. You can install software upgrades as they become available.
So I'd suggest you buy irex if you can spare the money, otherwise just wait.
btw 700$ will buy you a low end laptop which is definitely better value for your money.
sorry to discourage you... I was very enthusiastic too... 3 months ago

...
Indeed, you will have to pay for reflashing, but I didn't get a root account for my Iliad.
um, the last thing I know is that everything on the iLiad runs in the root user's context. Somebody knowing it better may correct me now.

You can get $100 if you apply for a SONY card. I just purchase the SONY Reader with a 2 year service plan with accidental coverage, everything comes to $450. I would love to get the iLiad, I just don't like the prospect of going through any repairs, I don't have piece of mind handling such fragile objects. I'll wait for the Hanlin V9 next year.

I don't have piece of mind handling such fragile objects.

Um... You do know that the Iliad isn't made of hand-spun eggshells...? :blink: :D

Hi
I bought a SONY reader about 3 months ago and I kind of think it was a waste.
It's a closed system.
... I was very enthusiastic too... 3 months ago Many at MobileRead have already opened the Sony (both physically and via code) so its secrets are being discovered on almost a daily basis.

Some posters have pointed to the iRex as better than the Sony because it has no DRM. Since the Sony also supports RTF, TXT, LRF, and PDF; one can simply ignore the DRM formats and have a wonderful reading experience.

Since the Sony does not support PDB, LIT, or HTML I have converted the non-DRM files to RTF for the Reader. It is a simple matter and a lot of the conversion can be done in batch mode. With the Conversion tools available from the MobileRead Wiki Page (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_conversion) conversion is not a scarey or time comsuming thing anymore.

I've had the Sony for a couple of months and it was a great investment for me.

Yeah that's what I thought, I have a pretty fast PC, Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz, so conversion shouldn't take long, if it does, I'll just convert when I'm sleeping. I have a PVP and this is how I do it.

I have adobe acrobat, is there a tutorial to convert PDFs to Sony Reader's specs without converting to other formats?

Wow the majority of the reviews at irexshop.com is negative, many 1 out 5 stars, looks like I made the right choice purchasing the SONY, though I still prefer the iLiad. Hopefully SONY's next Reader will feature an 8'-10' screen. Jinke's Hanlin may suffer the same fate as iRex being it's not local so repairs will be expensive. https://www.irexshop.com/product_reviews.php/products_id/28

Wow the majority of the reviews at irexshop.com is negative, many 1 out 5 stars, looks like I made the right choice purchasing the SONY, though I still prefer the iLiad. Hopefully SONY's next Reader will feature an 8'-10' screen. Jinke's Hanlin may suffer the same fate as iRex being it's not local so repairs will be expensive. https://www.irexshop.com/product_reviews.php/products_id/28

Um... Aren't most of those reviews back from July when it was first released and the initial firmware *was* a bit ropey...? For example, the PDF reader didn't have zoom/pan like all the others... Who in this day would release a reader that didn't do that...? :blink: :D

I think you are now looking for reasons not to buy this thing. Thats fine and thats your choice... But I would prefer it if you didn't post up FUD without looking at it critically...

Now please excuse me while I quickly download the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/g24) direct & wirelessly (via a shell script) to my Iliad, slap on some quick scans of docs I need to review, and even quickly transfer a book as well. Dang, I was supposed to have added some comments to a spec I was emailed yesterday. Oh well, will do that on the train...

And I wonder when the next firmware update will be...? :blink: I mailed in some bug reports that the developers told me they'd put on the list...

Software updates can only do so much. Judging how iRex is doing right now, they CANNOT compete with SONY. SONY's next Reader will probably kill iRex totally if SONY enters the EU market.

Software updates can only do so much. Judging how iRex is doing right now, they CANNOT compete with SONY. SONY's next Reader will probably kill iRex totally if SONY enters the EU market.

One's a consumer product, the other is B2B...

Unfortunately such products overlap since they are similar and do the same things. I don't think iRex can survive just doing B2B, they need the mass market. Economics rule at the end of the day. SONY will crush iRex if they enter the EU market. The companies that will survive will most likely be big corporations like SONY. Just look at previous ebook reader companies that went under, they were small corporations.

Unfortunately such products overlap since they are similar and do the same things. I don't think iRex can survive just doing B2B, they need the mass market. Economics rule at the end of the day. SONY will crush iRex if they enter the EU market. The companies that will survive will most likely be big corporations like SONY. Just look at previous ebook reader companies that went under, they were small corporations.

I don't think the Sony will crush the EU market as there is a lot of resistance to DRM. Sony has a very bad name regarding open formats and interoperability. In addition, the Sony isn't suitable for reading A4-documents, which most magazines, newspapers and documents on the web are. It is meant for books only.

The DRM is just an addition, it can read other formats. Right now SONY has a small screen but if the next Reader is 8-10', say bye-bye to iRex.

The DRM is just an addition, it can read other formats. Right now SONY has a small screen but if the next Reader is 8-10', say bye-bye to iRex.

You could be right, but frankly I don't care. I need a working device that allows met to read A4-paper without much problems and I need it now. The Iliad is the only device that allows me to do this. So, for me, the Iliad is is the best choice.

What would be your choice when the Iliad and Sony would be the same price?

I think the Iliad offers a lot of advantages compared to the Sony. It is just a matter if these advantages are important to you.

SONY simply because it's lower risk, great tech support and warranty and the company will be around for a long time. However if iRex iLiad becomes Philips iLiad, the I'll have to scrutinize a little bit, comparing each one's features, read reviews from popular websites. That's why i hope Philips will buy iRex soon, the tiny company can't compete with SONY. BTW, don't forget Jinke will be releasing a 8' and 10' Hanlin ebook end of this year. I'll rather get Jinke's 10' than iLiad's 8' and I bet the price will be the same.

SONY simply because it's lower risk, great tech support and warranty and the company will be around for a long time. However if iRex iLiad becomes Philips iLiad, the I'll have to scrutinize a little bit, comparing each one's features, read reviews from popular websites. That's why i hope Philips will buy iRex soon, the tiny company can't compete with SONY. BTW, don't forget Jinke will be releasing a 8' and 10' Hanlin ebook end of this year. I'll rather get Jinke's 10' than iLiad's 8' and I bet the price will be the same.

Personally I see the Sony as a higher risk... What happens to the DRM'd content if Sony decides to switch to a new format, or pull the plug...? (If you think thats impossible, look at Microsoft and their recent change in DRM'd formats)

"great tech support"... Dunno if you noticed but Irex have a forum where they respond to issues and even take on board suggestions. They interact on mobileread.com.

And you do know the relationship between Phillips and Irex...? :blink:

What would be your choice when the Iliad and Sony would be the same price?

Thats a no-brainer with all the extra functionality the Iliad has...!


I think the Iliad offers a lot of advantages compared to the Sony. It is just a matter if these advantages are important to you.

Exactly...! No point buying a device unless it does what you require it to do...! :D

Personally I see the Sony as a higher risk... What happens to the DRM'd content if Sony decides to switch to a new format, or pull the plug...? (If you think thats impossible, look at Microsoft and their recent change in DRM'd formats)

"great tech support"... Dunno if you noticed but Irex have a forum where they respond to issues and even take on board suggestions. They interact on mobileread.com.

And you do know the relationship between Phillips and Irex...? :blink:


Again DRM is an additional feature, it does not ONLY read DRM files. If they pull the plug or change to a new format, then SONY essentially becomes an iLiad with less features. Besides SONY can provide a firmware upgrade so it can read the new format. I know iRex is a spin-off from Philips but it's still a separate company with different bosses. Bottom line Philips doesn't support iRex products. I want Philips to buy iRex so iLiad will have as good of a warranty as SONY and it'll have a local presence in the USA. My main beef with iRex is the lousy warranty support and being outside the USA. SONY has great service plans.


Wait till something bad happens to your iLiad and you have to send it back for repair. The bills will start piling up, just take a look at scotty1024's experience. I wish you good luck though.

Thats a no-brainer with all the extra functionality the Iliad has...!



Exactly...! No point buying a device unless it does what you require it to do...! :D


I think I have clarify that If we're talking about the 6' SONY and the 8' iLiad and the price is the same, of course I'll choose the iLiad BUT if it's a future 8' SONY and a 8' iLiad, I'll go for the SONY.

Wait till something bad happens to your iLiad and you have to send it back for repair. The bills will start piling up, just take a look at scotty1024's experience. I wish you good luck though.

You seem very determined in your opinion that the device is unreliable and made of taffy papers and string... But when my 6-month old Iliad kicks the bucket I'll be sure to tell you.

Just got my SONY Reader today, took less than 24 hours to arrive using express shipping. I'm satisfied with it, considering my other option was the $700 iLiad. Screen is small though, so reading PDF is not easy on the eyes. Luckily there's the SONY Connect store or I would have return this item, I can use this Reader and read new ebook releases. Like iPod needs iTunes, SONY Reader needs SONY Connect. jæd is right, if SONY pulls the plug on SONY Connect, the SONY Reader will lose much of its value unless there are other ebook online store selling new release titles whose format is compatible with SONY Reader which I don't know of any. I'm contemplating of getting the iLiad too to read PDF but I think I'll just wait for Jinke Hanlin V9 10', I can read magazines on a 10' screen. :happy2:

Congrats on your new toy, rsuryase!...unless there are other ebook online store selling new release titles whose format is compatible with SONY Reader which I don't know of any.If you like SciFi (particularly MilSciFi, though they have other sub-genres too), there's Baen Publishing's Webscriptions.net (http://www.webscriptions.net). They sell in several formats, including RTF, which works nicely with the Reader -- just bump up the font size, and you're good to go -- the prices are quite reasonable (except for one glaring exception which is a casualty of trying to get Tor Publishing to come out to play), and very bestest of all: no DRM whatsoever. :nice:

Other than them, I don't know of any others either. :shrug:

Then there's the Silk Pagoda offering of 10,000 books in Sony format (sized PDFs.) Reading all of them should take me to the end of the battery life on the Reader assuming that I don't pick up a few others along the way.

-RenE-
What would be your choice when the Iliad and Sony would be the same price? Not a valaid question. The Iliad is currently over twice the price of the Sony. The converse would be, "If they kept their current price levels and the features were identical...."

There is talks about DRM support on the iRex forum http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?t=898&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

seems like it might be mobipocket
http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=18286#18286

scotty1024 is right! The near instant on/off has been the "Killer App". Too bad iRex iLiad can NEVER have this feature, looks like I've made the right decision. :D iLiad users would have to dole out another $700 for iRex new reader to get this feature. :(

scotty1024 is right! The near instant on/off has been the "Killer App". Too bad iRex iLiad can NEVER have this feature, looks like I've made the right decision. :D iLiad users would have to dole out another $700 for iRex new reader to get this feature. :(

For you it might be, for me I don't care about this feature. It is very personal what features are important to you and you should ma ke a decision by comparing the two (or more) devices closely. The bigger screen alone of the Iliad makes the Iliad for me a winner. Find the device that fulfills as much as possible of your requested features (like creating notes in PDF's :) )

By the way, I read about a Dutch school today that is going to experiment with supplying study books on Iliads to their students. Great initiative and I think that these are the B2B-opportunities that Irex is heading for.

Must be a school for the wealthy to be able to spend that kind of money plus the repairs costs they WILL get in the future. Imagine children handling such fragile products.

True, true. Touch screen, larger screen, writing capability and WIFI do justify a higher price but I think $600 would have been more appropriate. I would have purchased the iLiad if there weren't so many complaints from technical issues such as fragility, low battery life and high repair costs.

Must be a school for the wealthy to be able to spend that kind of money plus the repairs costs they WILL get in the future. Imagine children handling such fragile products.

True, true. Touch screen, larger screen, writing capability and WIFI do justify a higher price but I think $600 would have been more appropriate. I would have purchased the iLiad if there weren't so many complaints from technical issues such as fragility, low battery life and high repair costs.

I think someone should tell this kid about economic differences, differences in political systems and life-style, and the idea of "correct-choice-for-purpose"... :D

But I think we'll need to get that book uploaded to the Connect store before he'll be able to read it... :D

You mean social class? I'm middle-class, are you upper-class?

[...]
True, true. Touch screen, larger screen, writing capability and WIFI do justify a higher price but I think $600 would have been more appropriate.[...]

The enormous price difference is partly because of the strong euro. In the Netherlands (and rest of Europe) I pay 649 EUR, which is expensive, but compared to the Sony (very difficult to get here) the price difference will about 200 EUR. In my opinion this isn't that much for the extra features you get.

Shortly, Irex international (outside the EU) sales will be hurt by the strong EUR.

BY the way, for the same reason I buy my books in the US currently. Including the shipping costs it is still significant cheaper than buying the same book in The Netherlands and also more convenient.

Also, I'd wish Irex stopped advertising with 21 hours reading pleasure as they cannot make this statement true and will cause disappointed customers.

Instead of hours, why not use number of pages turned, like SONY? This is how eink works right? It only uses electricity when the page is turned.

Whew, this thread is being beat to death (which is good, mind you, so everyone can air their opinions). IMO, I'd probably have adopted the iRex a while back, but at it's current price I'd rather pick up a second-hand TabletPC and do all it can do plus more. I know Tablet's aren't even a part of this arguement, but given the pricing issue and arguement about capabilities... Since I have only done preliminary research into the device, I can only base this on initial observations of what existing users have posted in open forums regarding battery life is; one thing I do know for certain is my Tablet's battery life is ~5 hours of constant on, while searchs indicated ~7 hours for the iLiad. Of course when it comes down to it, I've used my Reader almost every day and have only had to charge it once (not including the initial charge), and I received it over a month ago. I've left the screen on many times, came back hours later, and noticed no indication of power consumption (since the Reader only uses power on page flips). During this time, I've read several books and about a couple of manga books (~200 pages each). Try that with either of the two previously mentioned devices; not gonna happen.

From a pure book reading perspective, the large screen sells me when reading computer tech PDF's; but on the flip-side, there have been some pretty darn good conversion tools out there that have made PDF's much more viewable. I am absolutely impressed with the size of the screen compared to the Reader's, just wish Sony would have opted for a little larger screen.

While it is cool that you can install "other" apps on the device, I wouldn't use this for such purposes, as that is what my PDA is for and my PDA is much more portable. I can't believe Sony actually put an MP3 player in the Reader, what a waste (plus, it looks like an after-thought).

From the cost perspective, the Reader win hands down; especially if you lock in the $150 credit using a new Sony Card account (not SonyStyle).

Finally, as to DRM... I think it has pretty unanimously been agreed that this is really a non-issue for several reasons: a) it's a choice you make to purchase DRM'd books as opposed to open-content (although this is the only way to purchase books through Connect), b) it's just a matter of time before the DRM is busted (RE: M$'s LIT format & $ony's inability to keep any platform truly locked down; i.e., just look at the PSP, it's a battle they've all but lost), and c) there are several tools you can use to put the content you want on the Reader, even converted to the Reader's native format.

My Final Verdict: I'll stick with the Reader to do what it's made for: reading eBooks, and I'll use my PDA & laptop for what they're for. Sure, it would be nice to have an all-in-one device; we'll see one at some point in time, but until then I'll just bide my time.

Since both the Sony Reader and the iRex are made in Asia the value of the US dollar vs. the Euro does not matter. Each of us have or will make our choice based on needs, wants, features, and cost. For me it was the Sony Reader. Others differ.

I think one should bear in mind that iRex now have a sales partner in the US, so maybe shipping, returning et al aren't so hairy or expensive as before (http://www.ereaderoutfitters.com).

For me, screen size was the clincher when I was deciding what to buy, but since then, seeing photos of the Sony Reader and the iLiad side by side have confirmed my choice for me, the resolution is not the same, those 16 scales of grey vs. 4 (my guess as to reason) make a real difference to image quality. And being able to annotate is nice, I got hooked on Sudokus. :)

eReader Outfitters, the US based distributor for the Iliad, does not have any stock in the US. When one purchases through them the shipment still comes from the warehouse in Europe. The advantage of eReaders seem to be that there is no VAT on the purchase and that they are based in the US.

Economics rule at the end of the day. SONY will crush iRex if they enter the EU market.

I might agree with you about the relative size of the companies, and their likeliness to be there in a few years' time, but there's a very good reason for Europeans not to buy a Sony Portable Reader.

There's a big UK market for gadgets, and quite a few people who like gadgets in continental Europe, but I started to look for other e-ink readers because I feel the European market has been let down by Sony. I waited through the Librie and the Portable Reader, assuming that the European release of the Portable Reader would turn up a couple or three years after the US release. Sony apparently have no plans to bring out the Portable Reader for Europe. I suppose there'd be language issues about trying to produce content for all European countries--but I suspect British gadget-freaks plus people from other countries who can read in English would make a big enough market for it to be worth doing.

Us European types have been watching theYanks on the forums complaining about having to deal with a European company -- it's just as bad the other way round, plus non-US Portable Reader owners apparently have to pretend they're in the US just to get content onto the device.

The iLiad is the first e-ink reader to be available in the UK, which is quite a step forward. If Sony had definite plans to roll out the Portable Reader in Europe, it might well be worth waiting for, but they're not even planning for it in a few years' time. There's a definite tone of We Might Change Our Minds And Bring It Out But Don't Hold Your Breath in Sony's statement.

Yes, Sony definitely missed the ship on not launching in multiple countries at once. I think their gameplan was to see how well it performed in the US prior to launching in other countries to avoid another Librie snafu (it's what I'd have done). Hopefully, given the success of the Reader and the rampant adoption of eInk displays, Sony will get off their duff and supplant their products in other countries for other more entrepreneuring companies beat them to the the punch.

I totally feel you pain with all the taxes and tarriffs being applied to imports, guess it's all about the government wanting to make their buck on something the couldn't tax in the country of origin. Wonder where China would be if countries taxed the hell out of their imports?

Finally, as to DRM... I think it has pretty unanimously been agreed that this is really a non-issue for several reasons: a) it's a choice you make to purchase DRM'd books as opposed to open-content (although this is the only way to purchase books through Connect), b) it's just a matter of time before the DRM is busted (RE: M$'s LIT format & $ony's inability to keep any platform truly locked down; i.e., just look at the PSP, it's a battle they've all but lost), and c) there are several tools you can use to put the content you want on the Reader, even converted to the Reader's native format. So far as I know, .lit is the only e-book DRM that has been broken - and this is done by side-stepping the DRM rather than actually breaking it (PDF may be another example, but there are levels of PDF security and I don't think the highest levels have been broken). This has not seemed to have prevented publishers from using the .lit format, and it has probably increased sales of .lit books. I'm sure that all the existing e-book DRM schemes could be broken, but perhaps only by a huge effort that may not be forthcoming for a relatively small market segment. Note that most "breaks" of DRM are of the .lit kind, i.e. some defect in the total system rather than the actual encryption.

A defect in the security of a MacroHard product that makes the security irrelevant? Who'd'a thunk it? :laugh4:

its only been about 6 months since the us launch of the sony reader. why all the fuss over the pond. they had a lot of stuff before us.

to the average consumer, not anyone here, the sony is a paperweight without the sony bookstore. they are not going to seek their own books, just buy them. unless they have the rights for the books to sell in a country or union there is no reason to offer the reader for sale.

This appears to be a limitation (feature?) of associating the e-book with a single device. MobiPocket (for example) seems to have no problem selling e-books to everyone, presumably because they have worldwide rights to the book and/or no technical means of limiting sales (MobiPocket books are mulit-device and sold by multiple sites).

I am surprized that there is no technical work around to the USA only limitation. If your ISP is in the US, or just has a US domain associated with your PC, how does Sony discover that you are not physically in the US?

If your ISP is in the US, or just has a US domain associated with your PC, how does Sony discover that you are not physically in the US?I don't think they give a flip about the IP or the domain, or where you physically are for that matter (we've had reports of the Reader being sold on U.S. military bases overseas, for instance). They apparently just go by the billing address on the credit card you try to pay them with. Kinda hard to spoof that. :sad2:

Do pre-paid "gift" credit cards work? It appears that the name and address on the card can be changed by the recipient (which could be yourself).

Yup. The pre-paid gift cards work just fine -- that's one of the work-arounds that folks have come up with. :yes:

I don't think they care about the addresses on those, just the gift card #.


My best guess here is that they're showing "due diligence" about not distributing books where they don't officially have distribution rights. :shrug:

A Sony pre-paid gift card needs a US credit card in the loop, but a pre-paid VISA (say) gift card would not. Buy a VISA gift card with your UK (say) credit card, then register it to yourself with a US address.

Hmmm. Just might work. :nice:

You can recharge those things, too, can't you?

So far as I know, .lit is the only e-book DRM that has been broken - and this is done by side-stepping the DRM rather than actually breaking it (PDF may be another example, but there are levels of PDF security and I don't think the highest levels have been broken). This has not seemed to have prevented publishers from using the .lit format, and it has probably increased sales of .lit books. I'm sure that all the existing e-book DRM schemes could be broken, but perhaps only by a huge effort that may not be forthcoming for a relatively small market segment. Note that most "breaks" of DRM are of the .lit kind, i.e. some defect in the total system rather than the actual encryption.

You have a point, but what I was stating was that no matter how they try to secure something, it will be broken. That's the cool thing about software, once it's on your box you can do whatever you want to it to see how it works and how to make it bend to your will. I think the fundamental factor that pushes how quickly DRM is broken, or any security for that matter, is the number of people who are using it or are going to be affected by it; e.g., a cracker won't attack a little-known format if he/she cannot gain noteriety through the act, so hitting a more commonly used format equals quicker/greater fame.

LIT, PDB, PDF, RB, et al., have all been broken at some point. As to PDF's, why do you think Adobe keeps creating newer "updated" versions? To fix what security flaws that have been exploited, be it in DRM or software activation. It doesn't matter how the exploit is enacted, simply that it was enough to circumnavigate the security in the first place.

Quote from my personal email from Sony (Uk) dated 31st May, on eReader release date:

"Thank you for your email. At this time we do not have any release dates for the Ebook reader, however we have been informed that it should be coming towards the end of the year."

It appears we're not going to have to wait too long for it to hit this side of the pond. Now all I need is for them to do a deal with Amazon/Mobipocket and one will be joining my iLiad on the 'bookshelf' :D

I've never seen physical version of Sony in action but as a new iLiad owner I can tell one thing: if the screen would be smaller than iLiad has, you could mostly read only sci-fi novels on it...

I've never seen physical version of Sony in action but as a new iLiad owner I can tell one thing: if the screen would be smaller than iLiad has, you could mostly read only sci-fi novels on it...

iLiad = $699
Sony - $299 ($60 with credit card offer)

And I wonder how I'm able to read my Mystery books when I'm only able to read sci-fi novels? Can you tell me is my Sony special since it allows me to read more then just sci-fi? Or have I found the easter egg to allow me to do this wondrous feat? Please tell me since I'm really only supposed to be reading sci-fi. Is it because the screen is smaller then the iLiad that I can read sci-fi and not nothing else? I never knew I was doing things all wrong. Would you mind helping me remove all the books that are not sci-fi so I do it right?

Much as I prefer reading on the iLiad to the Sony, I too find that a slightly curious statement. The Reader is approximately the same page size as a paperback book; the iLiad is approximately the same page size as a hardback book. Why ever should the page size have any influence on the subject matter one reads on it?

...The Reader is approximately the same page size as a paperback book; the iLiad is approximately the same page size as a hardback book.

You've said this a couple of times, so I'm taking it up with you (hehe, sorry, but screen size was my main issue in iLiad vs. Reader): your comparison is off, by quite a bit, unless my paperbacks and hardbacks are a very weird size. Photo, to prove it, is attached.

The paperback in photo is: 17.9cm x 10.6cm, diagonal: 20.8cm (8.3")
iLiad screen is: 16.4cm x 12.2cm, diagonal: 20.3cm (8.1")
Hardback is: 23.4cm x 15.3cm, diagonal: 27.8cm (11.12")

The iLiad is a bit shorter and wider than a paperback, that's why I format with practically no top/bottom margins, and 1.4 side margins. The Sony Reader is a lot smaller, it's only the same size as a paperback if you include the case. :p :smash:

edit: I have quite a few paperbacks falling to bits, which was useful for this photo, heh.

Perhaps one of the reasons Sony is dragging it's feet with the Reader in Europe is the simple fact that most "new" techs take at least a year or two after appearing in the US before they become available around here - and I won't even bother comparing with Japan.

It happened with 3G phones. It happened with Blackberries (well, that type of "phone", I've never actually seen a blackberry here). It happened with digital photography. The only notable exceptions are when the tech is actually developed here (such as Philips & the CD back in the 80's).

Aside from that, of course, is the fact that with file-sharing being legal over here, there's much less of an incentive to use something such as the connect store. Thus, there's less of an incentive for Sony to bring out the Reader here.

On the other hand, the high book prices in Europe (compared to the US - and specially with the high euro/low dollar) should make it a rather lucrative market for selling ebooks... then again, that might be the very reason they're such sticklers about only US customers buying from the Connect store...


EDIT:

Oh, and as far as the Reader coming over to this side of the puddle, a quick email to Sony Spain resulted in a utter lack of knowledge, with only the faintest recognition that something such as the PRS500 even exists somewhere in the world. Ie. No plans for it coming to Spain, nor any knowledge of which countries it's available in, nor any info on warranty coverage, nor anything on whether it will become available anywhere in Europe at all. I think they might've not known what the PRS500 was and just tried to hide their ignorance altogether actually :P

You can legally purchase from a collection of over 11,000 ebooks for the Reader, you can't for the iLiad. Yeah I know, you try to convince yourself you'll only read PDF's for work, but then you download Teaching the Au Pair to Submit from the Sony Store and your fate is sealed. :)


Legally I'm not supposed to purchase anything from the Sony Store due to being a non US resident however lying about my location worked fine. So if I want to be legal the iliad is a better option with all the mobipocket books available for download.

Legally I'm not supposed to purchase anything from the Sony Store due to being a non US resident however lying about my location worked fine. So if I want to be legal the iliad is a better option with all the mobipocket books available for download.

The weird thing about Mobipocket vs Sony Connstore: Why can Mobipocket sell me an ebook from a website in France but Sony can't sell you an ebook if you're not in the US?

I don't get it.

MobiPocket has international distribution rights and Sony ConnStore doesn't. It's pretty straightforward, actually.

The distribution rights that Mobi does or doesn't have has no effect on the distribution rights that Sony does or doesn't have. :shrug:

MobiPocket has international distribution rights and Sony ConnStore doesn't. It's pretty straightforward, actually.

The distribution rights that Mobi does or doesn't have has no effect on the distribution rights that Sony does or doesn't have. :shrug:

Does Mobipocket actually have such rights? If such rights are available, then why didn't Sony acquire them? Are they mentally deficient?

Does Mobipocket actually have such rights? If such rights are available, then why didn't Sony acquire them? Are they mentally deficient?One would assume that Mobi has them, since they are distributing internationally, and not getting sued.

Think it through for a bit, Nate the great:

The rights are negotiated, usually from the publisher and/or other distributors, I suppose.

Sony's mental acuity, or lack thereof, likely has less to do with it than with whether those who hold the international distribution rights are at liberty to negotiate them (as they may not be if they were, say, locked into some sort of exclusive contract or some such), and their willingness to negotiate an agreement with Sony.

Further complicating the matter is that the distribution rights will be held by multiple (potentially a big multiple) entities.

It's a simple concept, yes, but like so many legal things, the execution is ... not so simple.


Please note that I have no detailed knowledge of the actual processes involved, so that's mostly guesswork -- considered guesswork, but still guesswork.

Please note that I have no detailed knowledge of the actual processes involved, so that's mostly guesswork -- considered guesswork, but still guesswork.

But it's a really good guess.

It gets even worse when you go back a step before the publisher/distributor agreements. First, there's the negotiation between the author and the publisher. In simple deals, the author sells, say, First North American print rights to the publisher along with a bundle of ancillary rights like world publishing rights and e-rights. Those ancillary rights are usually transferable, and publishers sell them all the time. Scholastic, for example, bought the US rights to the Harry Potter books. Publishers often buy paperback rights, but sell them down the road to a house that is better equipped to handle them. Insane as it seems, e-rights are also being sold on a regional basis these days. Also, said rights might be sold exclusively or non-exclusively.

Now that authors and their agents are getting more savvy, it's not uncommon with hot properties for an agent to sell all the various rights separately; First North American rights to this publisher, First European rights to that one, etc. Or an author may choose to retain the e-rights and use them for promotion, as long as it doesn't conflict with any non-compete clauses included in the other rights sales.

It can get very messy.

I think I understand the difference. Mobipocket can sell books anywhere because they are not the exclusive publisher of their format in any market (besides possibly France). Any one can publish in their format. Fictionwise, for example, relies on Mibipocket DRM servers, but likely negotiated not with Mobipocket but with the various publishers, agents, authors for the right to sell in the US market.

Sony, on the other hand, is the exclusive publisher of its' format.

Sony, on the other hand, is the exclusive publisher of its' format.

Or exclusive distributor, I don't know. But yes, that would be my guess. Most likely, their contract includes something like "exclusively in the US and solely for use on blah blah blah."

You've almost got it, Nate, I don't believe that the format matters one whit, but otherwise you're pretty much there. :nice:

Or exclusive distributor, I don't know. But yes, that would be my guess. Most likely, their contract includes something like "exclusively in the US and solely for use on blah blah blah."

And here is another big difference between e-books and print books. Print books are protected by the Constitution so the government cannot stop you buying them from wherever; the big textbook publishers tried to get an injunction to stop the US sale of textbooks printed for use in Asia which are identical to the US editions except they are much cheaper, so even some campus bookstores order and sell those; they failed.

Legally I can buy a print book from what country I want whatever the "US rights" of the respective book. And not only that, I can make a business out of that, buy in bulk from country x and resell here in the USA.

E-books status is unclear, but as far as I know right now they fall under the software category so their sale can be restricted territorially.

E-books status is unclear, but as far as I know right now they fall under the software category so their sale can be restricted territorially.
I think this goes back to the physical nature of p-books vs. e-books. P-books are difficult to copy, e-books aren't. P-books are difficult to distribute, e-books aren't. When a publisher has regional publishing rights to some content, the physicality of the books makes it difficult for the books to wander across borders. The PITA factor limits things.

Electronic content, on the other hand, has no physical limiting factor. It makes regional rights almost meaningless. For all intents and purposes, New York to Beijing is the same as New York to Boston. The nature of the technology creates situations where the consumer just has to state "I am in country X" to gain access to regionally restricted content (as with the Sony Reader). The movie industry had to gain or force the collusion of DVD player manufacturers to enforce regional restrictions. That added a little bit of the PITA factor back in.

Let's hope the e-book industry never goes down that road.

It could also just be a case of the legal environment the 2 companies operate in. The laws may not allow restrictive trade practises in France.

It always amazes me the a country like the US which seems to be based o nthe idea of freedom seems to have one of the most restrictive economies

I think this goes back to the physical nature of p-books vs. e-books. P-books are difficult to copy, e-books aren't. P-books are difficult to distribute, e-books aren't. When a publisher has regional publishing rights to some content, the physicality of the books makes it difficult for the books to wander across borders. The PITA factor limits things.



thats not quite true about pbooks being difficult to copy Actually they are far easier to copy than ebooks,. All you need is a copier with a document feeder, guillotine the spine off the book and drop the pages in the feeder. Come back in a few minutes and your book is copied. What could be easier. Ok a non DRMed book is easier to copy I'll admit