TamsPalm (http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com/2007/01/19/sharp-zaurus-line-eol-production-ceases-in-february/) has posted the sad news that Sharp is ending production of it's line of Linux Zaurus PDAs in February. Apparently, parts will be available for a long time from third party suppliers, which is a testament to the dedicated following that has been built by the products.

The Zaurus is one of those devices that everyone says they love, but nobody actually seems to buy or own. I think we all just really like the idea of having a clamshell device, but when it comes down to it, other form factors are usually more practical. Pocketable form factors like the Treo and other smartphones are often criticized, but they work.

If it's not going to fit in my pocket, then I want it to be easy to carry around, and big enough to get extra usability. That means a "real" keyboard (even if it's small), and a bigger display. A small notebook computer shape would be nice, so you can carry it like a Franklin planner, and the screen isn't exposed.

Usually electronics are rather fragile, so devices need to stay relatively convenient to carry even when in a case. That's one of the big reasons I'm very high on the future of UMPCs. I think they'll eventually get the form factor tweaked so that you can do decent typing on it, and it's still small and portable, and easy to carry around with you. (If you don't carry it around most of the time, what's the advantage over a traditional notebook computer?)

So you can see why I think the Zaurus line didn't catch on, just like most other clamshells. Mostly, it's the form factor. I'm not sure why they didn't go ahead and add a better keyboard like the old handheld PCs. You remember... like the Jornada 720 (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc=us&product=61677). Believe it or not, I have still recently seen those in use for pharmaceutical field sales.

And, of course, if you don't have mainstream 3rd party software options or a spectacular set of built-in applications, then it becomes a hard sell. People want to be able to use the device, not just admire it's form factor.

But if you have been wanting to use a new Zaurus, or would like to pick one up for the novelty and gadget factor, this may be your last chance outside of eBay.

Via Palm Addicts (http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2007/01/sharp_has_decid.html).

To me it always seemed like a sideways copy of the Psion -- a device I had 2 of and did a lot of application programming for back in the 90s. It is also a form factor that I do not wish to revisit.

I am one of those that never gave it even a passing nod as something I would like. While some of the features were good, tyhere were too many negatives IMHO to make it a viable product.

TamsPalm has posted the sad news that Sharp is ending production of it's line of Linux Zaurus PDAs in February.

I can't say that this surprises me. But I agree that it is sad.

The Zaurus is one of those devices that everyone says they love, but nobody actually seems to buy or own.

I have an SL-C760 - the clamshell Zaurus. It's really nice - as a pocket-sized laptop. But for the same price, I can buy a full-size laptop with all the performance that the Zaurus doesn't have.

In the case of the Zaurus, it tried to fit the market of the people who were using a PDA, but wanted something more like a pocket-sized laptop. Unfortunately, it picked up the laptop's drawbacks - poor battery life. When you add that the PDA applications were bad - really, really bad - it means that they missed their market.

So you can see why I think the Zaurus line didn't catch on, just like most other clamshells.

I have to disagree. If you don't like the clamshell, the Zaurus also came in the 5000, 5500 and 6000 models which were non-clamshell. But they didn't sell well either.

No, the Zaurus failed because:
1. It was an awful PDA
2. It was a poorly powered laptop
3. It was priced the same as a full-size laptop

In a nutshell: it was a solution that didn't have a market.

That being said, my Conics order will be here next week with the new 12 hour battery for my C760, spare power adaptor and stylus.

This is sad news indeed. I have owned two prior models before buying my current C3100. Sharp's hardware design and the support of the community (oesf.org/forums) made it one of the greatest gadgets of all times. Will something like that (a small Linux laptop with a great screen, full keyboard and a huge battery life) appear on the market again?

My guess is that the resale prices will keep high after they discontinue the product.

Alas...

Hi Bob,

You may not be aware of it, but there's a very active and lively Zaurus community over at OESF.org/forums....

I've had several Z's the past few years and they were all great devices.

Especially, since unlike the MS PPC/HPC world, the Z's run Linux so there's tremendous flexibility for those that want it to customize the devices to run the way you want (not just the way MS for example wants you to use it).

Currently, I'm running 'pdaXrom' OS on it, so it is literally a little laptop that can fit in your shirt pocket.

The clamshell models do fit in your pocket, without a case.

Zaurus's sold very well in Japan the past few years as they were designed solely for the Japanese market. Unfortunately, Sharp dropped them for non-Japanese markets some years ago. But even when the non-clamshell models were sold in the US, etc, Sharp never supported them well nor had any real marketing campaign to help generate interest. So it was no surprise to me that they didn't do well here at the time.

However, since the Zauruses ran Linux, could be reflashed with new OS, and still had English language option in them, this provided a great opportunity for those interested, to get one and use it outside of Japan, without Sharp support.

So given the fact that there are a lot of Zaurus owners out there around the world using them, without manufacturer support is a testament to how great the Z's actually are.

The only thing I felt lacking in the recent Z's was built-in wifi support. However, I use a CF WiFi card or a CF ethernet card so this hasn't really been that much of an issue.

Obviously, the keyboard was not as good as the Jornada 720 since the Zaurus is about half the size of the 720...so how could it be??

However, I've found that for short amount of typing the keyboard is surprisingly good. If you want to do more extensive typing you can add a USB external keyboard.

If you or others want to see what you can really do with a Zaurus check out this website....

http://www.users.on.net/~hluc/myZaurus/

You'll be surprised....

:wink:

Here's to the Z's.....

:cool:


Mark

You make a very good point, Mark, about the smaller size of the Zaurus relative to the Jornada, and I have heard good things about the usability of the Zaurus keyboard.

And thanks for the additional info. That link is especially impressive. You might have just sold a few more Zaurus's with that! ;-)

I hope you guys keep the Zaurus legacy going for a long, long time to come!

I have a Zaurus and use it several times a day. The main reasons I haven't found anything else that can replace it:


Best screen and keyboard on a device capable of fitting in pants pockets
Linux/Qt environment is much easier to program for than PalmOS or Windows Mobile (I wrote my own database app, and have a couple of other apps in progress)


I use it primarily for text files and databases: shopping lists, taking notes, inventory of stuff I own, finances tracking, etc. But it also works pretty well as an mp3 player (20 GB between CF, SD, and internal microdrive...and I actually use Ogg Vorbis files rather than mp3s), e-book reader, Japanese<->English dictionary (I read a fair number of Japanese novels and comics), video player, photo viewer, and so forth. The default PDA programs are rather weak, but I rarely used such apps even when I had a Handspring Visor, and much improved apps are now available for it. I can see how that would have killed it outright for a lot of Palm users, though.

The first main problem (from my perspective) with the Zaurus was that it wasn't supported adequately outside of Japan; a much higher proportion of non-Japanese users than Japanese users wrote useful software for the platform, and that development work pretty much ground to a halt when it became clear that none of the newer models would ever be marketed overseas. Then Sharp basically moved the entire development staff onto other projects...the device hasn't seen any major improvements in hardware or (built-in) software since the SL-C760 was released in mid-2003. Overall PDA sales had been declining for years, and all of their major competitors had already pulled out of the Japanese market, so they had no real incentive to put any effort into it.

It's aggravating to see the constant parade of interesting bits of technology being developed, but not a single device released that I actually want to buy...I really dislike Windows Mobile, PalmOS is antiquated and hard to write good software for, the iPhone apparently won't allow installation of apps you develop or download yourself, most e-book readers aren't good for much other than reading text and maybe listening to music, and UMPC devices won't fit in my pocket (I live in the Boston area, and generally get around by walking...without any sort of backpack or bag). I guess there just isn't much demand in the rest of the population for a "pocket computer"...

Thanks, Bob...

If only I got a commission on those Z's...

:wink:

You make a very good point, Mark, about the smaller size of the Zaurus relative to the Jornada, and I have heard good things about the usability of the Zaurus keyboard.

And thanks for the additional info. That link is especially impressive. You might have just sold a few more Zaurus's with that! ;-)

I hope you guys keep the Zaurus legacy going for a long, long time to come!

Amen, to what you wrote, jmbowman!

The only point I'd make is to say that I assume you're referring to the lack of newer apps developed for the Qtopia OS that comes with the Zaurus.

While that is true, the real strength of the Zaurus platforum using an open-source OS, Linux has shown itself if you look at all the many Linux apps now available (for free) that have been recompiled to run on the Zaurus if you reflash it to run either OZ (OpenZaurus) or pdaXrom (or one of its variants, such as pdaXii13 that I use now).

For example, check out the OESF.org forums in the pdaXrom section (it also includes posts on pdaXii13) and you will see many great current Linux apps you can download for free.

Here's a link to the 'New Packages Announcement' thread, it's now 14 pages long.....

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18415

If you've never tried flashing your Z, it's not that big of a deal and you can always re-flash it back to Qtopia if you want to, don't know why you would want to, once you've tried pdaXrom...but it could happen....

:wink:

Check it out....


I have a Zaurus and use it several times a day. The main reasons I haven't found anything else that can replace it:


Best screen and keyboard on a device capable of fitting in pants pockets
Linux/Qt environment is much easier to program for than PalmOS or Windows Mobile (I wrote my own database app, and have a couple of other apps in progress)


I use it primarily for text files and databases: shopping lists, taking notes, inventory of stuff I own, finances tracking, etc. But it also works pretty well as an mp3 player (20 GB between CF, SD, and internal microdrive...and I actually use Ogg Vorbis files rather than mp3s), e-book reader, Japanese<->English dictionary (I read a fair number of Japanese novels and comics), video player, photo viewer, and so forth. The default PDA programs are rather weak, but I rarely used such apps even when I had a Handspring Visor, and much improved apps are now available for it. I can see how that would have killed it outright for a lot of Palm users, though.

The first main problem (from my perspective) with the Zaurus was that it wasn't supported adequately outside of Japan; a much higher proportion of non-Japanese users than Japanese users wrote useful software for the platform, and that development work pretty much ground to a halt when it became clear that none of the newer models would ever be marketed overseas. Then Sharp basically moved the entire development staff onto other projects...the device hasn't seen any major improvements in hardware or (built-in) software since the SL-C760 was released in mid-2003. Overall PDA sales had been declining for years, and all of their major competitors had already pulled out of the Japanese market, so they had no real incentive to put any effort into it.

It's aggravating to see the constant parade of interesting bits of technology being developed, but not a single device released that I actually want to buy...I really dislike Windows Mobile, PalmOS is antiquated and hard to write good software for, the iPhone apparently won't allow installation of apps you develop or download yourself, most e-book readers aren't good for much other than reading text and maybe listening to music, and UMPC devices won't fit in my pocket (I live in the Boston area, and generally get around by walking...without any sort of backpack or bag). I guess there just isn't much demand in the rest of the population for a "pocket computer"...

I tried OpenZaurus a while back, but at the time it wasn't as stable as the default ROM. I've seriously considered trying out pdaXrom (especially if I could get Qt 4 applications running on it), but that would prevent me from using the Japanese<->English dictionary...it's a closed-source Qtopia application. Still might be worth it (I could install some reasonably good open source Japanese dictionary tools instead)...I'm getting ready to migrate from my SL-C760 to an SL-C3000, now would be a good time to play around with it.

But this illustrates one of the basic problems with writing software for the Zaurus...people are running multiple, incompatible operating environments on it. The problem wouldn't be so bad if it was just a few people having fun trying out alternatives...but the default ROM is so stagnant that it motivates a lot of people to move off of it. Yet there are also a lot of apps that require Qtopia and Sharp's proprietary libraries, and flashing the ROM is a frightening prospect for many users, so the default is still in widespread use as well. While I was working on PortaBase, it proved infeasible to provide binaries for all of the environments in common use: old Sharp ROM, new Sharp ROM (with much-improved file selector), old OpenZaurus (mostly compatible with stock ROM), new OpenZaurus (using improved but binary-incompatible gcc version), pdaXrom (with X but no Qtopia), etc. The bad PDA apps scared off the Palm users, but this packaging nightmare is what drove off the commercial developers (those few who were willing to work in such a small market, that is).

Many Zaurus users have complained that developers ran off and spent all their time writing alternate ROMs instead of developing apps, but I think the main reason for this is that there was no channel for making improvements to the base environment...Trolltech was reluctant to accept 3rd-party contributions into Qtopia, and Sharp wasn't even bothering to deploy the new versions that Trolltech was releasing. So if a developer didn't like the way something in the base platform worked, they really had no choice but to go off and roll their own ROM.

Anyway, summarizing this into something relevant for e-book readers and portable computing devices in general:


It's important to allow for customization of the base platform and (especially) the default apps so that power users can tweak things to their liking; otherwise, they'll move to (or create) an environment that does allow such customization
This customization should be enabled in such a way that compatibility with existing applications is retained, so that the result of developers' work can be used readily by other users
The base platform and apps should be updated regularly with the most popular customizations so that the baseline for new development doesn't grow too fragmented
Compatibility with existing software is a huge plus...pdaXrom came about largely because of the vast supply of existing software written for an X11 environment. I can appreciate the desire to spur development of software optimized for a PDA's software stack and UI conventions, but the way Qtopia handled it (by not supporting existing GUI apps at all) was far from optimal...what's really needed is a way to adapt existing software to work reasonably well on the platform with minimal effort. The iPhone would be promising here, if not for the limitations on installation of custom apps...

I tried OpenZaurus a while back, but at the time it wasn't as stable as the default ROM. I've seriously considered trying out pdaXrom (especially if I could get Qt 4 applications running on it), but that would prevent me from using the Japanese<->English dictionary...it's a closed-source Qtopia application. [Snip]

Yeah, I tried OZ too, first impression was great, but then quickly faded and got rid of it. Lots of potential, but not ready-for-primetime I felt...

As for Qtopia, there are several options for having Qtopia and X on your Z...again search around the OESF forums or check out meanie's site...


But this illustrates one of the basic problems with writing software for the Zaurus...people are running multiple, incompatible operating environments on it. The problem wouldn't be so bad if it was just a few people having fun trying out alternatives...but the default ROM is so stagnant that it motivates a lot of people to move off of it. [Snip]

Again, the default ROM stagnation issue relates to Sharp's lack of support for the Z outside of Japan. So, given that everyone who bought one (except the non-clamshell design Z's) outside of Japan should have known that they were buying a Japanese market only device, there should not have been any surprise about this situation, right?


Many Zaurus users have complained that developers ran off and spent all their time writing alternate ROMs instead of developing apps, but I think the main reason for this is that there was no channel for making improvements to the base environment...Trolltech was reluctant to accept 3rd-party contributions into Qtopia, and Sharp wasn't even bothering to deploy the new versions that Trolltech was releasing. So if a developer didn't like the way something in the base platform worked, they really had no choice but to go off and roll their own ROM.
[Snip]

Again, this relates to Sharp's decision to make Zaurus a Japanese market only device, hence to support for everyone else....

But in the meantime, I and many others are enjoying using our 'micro-laptops'....

:cool:


Anyway, summarizing this into something relevant for e-book readers and portable computing devices in general:
[Snip]

Seems like there are a few of us Zaurus usrs here!
I think the lack of marketing or any attempt at selling it in US sealed it's fate for eventual pull out. The clamshells were never even introduced in US less for importers.

I started with a 5500 and tried OZ for awhile, got fed up with its stability issues, lack of proper support for Chinese and snobbish replies on the forum. I left it to rot for awhile, tried Jornada 720 then got a C1000 zaurus and with Cacko rom, it's a winner!

I still ocassionally try out pdaXii13 to see if things are better, but so far Cacko is the deal.

Oh, and did I mention I'm surfing the web and replying to this forum on my c1000? :)

I think I'll use my z for another 2~3 yrs but its hard to move to a keyboardless device once you try it. Ah well, SHARP are really geniuses in making cool pdas and dumping them!

I used to have a Zaurus long ago but typing on the keypad was horrid and I absolutely despised how the memory wiped when the battery died. PDAs, then, weren't much better but at least they were more flexible with the touch screen. Eventually, I gave up on both and use my cell phone and a small notepc. At the moment, I'm learning how to capture conversation on a digital voice recorder and transcribe it into text on my notepc. It's not quite as slick as I'd hoped. When Intel's Santa Rosa platform makes it to the shelves, I plan on changing to a tablet.

I used to have a Zaurus long ago but typing on the keypad was horrid and I absolutely despised how the memory wiped when the battery died. PDAs, then, weren't much better but at least they were more flexible with the touch screen. Eventually, I gave up on both and use my cell phone and a small notepc. At the moment, I'm learning how to capture conversation on a digital voice recorder and transcribe it into text on my notepc. It's not quite as slick as I'd hoped. When Intel's Santa Rosa platform makes it to the shelves, I plan on changing to a tablet.Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred can do that (transcribe dictation recorded on a pda and transferred to the desktop) just as you mention. I am planning to do a review at MR of that capability very soon!

Sweet! I look forward to reading it. =)

I can't believe it's gone. I just found out. :disappoin. So my only chance would be to get it on eBay. That sucks. I'm going to get an ulcer (http://www.pharmacy-online.ca/drugs/nexium.jsp) if I keep missing these gadgets.

I can't believe it's gone. I just found out. :disappoin. So my only chance would be to get it on eBay. That sucks. I'm going to get an ulcer (http://www.pharmacy-online.ca/drugs/nexium.jsp) if I keep missing these gadgets.

Conics (http://conics.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=23&osCsid=bb3877218702309e532ee7ec4e8717fd) still has some in stock.

I can't believe it's gone. I just found out. :disappoin. So my only chance would be to get it on eBay. That sucks. I'm going to get an ulcer (http://www.pharmacy-online.ca/drugs/nexium.jsp) if I keep missing these gadgets.

FWIW, I think I read on one of the OESF forum threads that Sharp is still making the Zaurus...just not planning to release any new models...

Do a search over at OESF forums if you're interested....think TriSoft, European Zaurus importer, may have commented on this...

HTH,

Mark

I can believe it that they've decided to stop marketing of the Zaurus, considering the way current UMPC have been moving. You can pick up a full-featured laptop with a larger screen, keyboard, etc. for around the same price. It's tought o compete with that kind of market; perhaps Sharp has a new product up their sleeves that they're just about to unveil that would have made their Zaurus line obsolete?

If anyone is in line for a Zaurus, let me know what you're looking for and I'll check the local second-hand shops; I know I can pick up any range of Zaurus from $180 and up. They're used, but you won't be paying a mint for something that will be dropping from production soon.

Dell and Sony dropped their pda lines only to move into the UMPC space. Hopefully Sharp is simply refocusing.

Dell and Sony dropped their pda lines only to move into the UMPC space. Hopefully Sharp is simply refocusing.

Think they've already done that, Bob....

For quite some time they've been releasing other devices in Japan and Korea that at first glance look like Zaurii, but are not. They are various language dictionary devices with some other limited features.

They do not have the Linux based Qtopia OS....som much more limited and you can't reflash them to other Linux OS's like the Zaurus....

So it goes...

:(

You're right about the whole line of translator/portable encyclopedias available over here; they're almost a requirement for meaningful communication or learning. I actually saw a nice little Sony one a while back that could have fit in your front pocket; pitty I haven't seen more in that size. On a side note, I don't think this line-up was meant to replace the Zaurus line though, I think maybe they will have a UMPC that runs Windows coming soon (it's fits in the average consumer's comfort zone without having to learn a new interface). There are some nifty little portables around, though most have a drawback or two that could be fixed if they really wanted to sell better; i.e., listen to the consumers.

I'll be taking a peak here in a day or two to see what's new. :thumbsup:

Dragon Naturally Speaking Preferred can do that (transcribe dictation recorded on a pda and transferred to the desktop) just as you mention. I am planning to do a review at MR of that capability very soon!

I doubt voice software will work; I've used Dragon for years on the desktop in perfectly quiet situations and it sucks.

Clamshell devices were the perfect form factor the only problem was MS dropping the OS to be greedy to go after a separate market the palm devices. Sharp old clamshells had a nice size and feel. I owned them but the new Linux version was more thumb input. I also owned virtually all others in the clamshell era and the best for hardware design is hands down the Psion 5mx or Revo. I switched to the Jornada 728 due to it having MS applications built in.

What is really needed is for a UMPC or MID device to copy either a Psion or HP Jornada or Zaurus type clamshell design and update it so it runs full windows. That will sell millions.

Here is an interesting fact, the HPC clamshell devices (only devices with touch type keyboards like Zaurus, Psion, Jornadas, etc.) sold over 2.3 million per year in the 90's. The entire UMPC market from the many 7" devices and including OQO only sold 350,000 worldwide in 07'.

The real problem is to me so simple. Now that technology can provide a device to run fulll windows and be pocket size they all forgot the great clamshell form factors and tried to re-invent the wheel. What do all users typically use for inputing their full windows laptops, etc. a real keyboard. duh... A thumb or pen input is just not what people want for a device that has full windows applications.