View Full Version : Export to ePub from InDesign CS5


gardefjord
07-19-2010, 08:59 AM
Hello everybody, I watched this tutorial and downloaded a trial for ID 5, can't seem to make it work, I don't get any ToC in my ePub-file.
Everything gets divided into ten smaller xhtml files but not at the paragraph-style I choose.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6mZaksmIs&feature=player_embedded

charleski
07-19-2010, 10:19 AM
InDesign will split the file when it encounters a heading style that's been assigned to Level 1 in the generated ToC. Other levels in the ToC will be ignored.

The generated ToC used to govern the file-splitting won't show up in the ePub, if you want a ToC in the actual ePub rather than using the one generated by the ebook reader, then you'd need to create one yourself using links and anchors.

If you attach an epub that you'd made it would be easier to see what's going wrong.

brewt
07-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Ptooey.

Couldn't help but notice:

The 'Embed Fonts' checky-boxy-thingy wasn't in the export dialog as in cs4, and the guy said "don't worry about fonts, as it will always defer to the default fonts on the device." So unless it's hidden in some preference, font embedding doesn't seem to happen in cs5.

Metadata was being entered through i-tunes. CS4 wasn't great on metadata either, but he didn't even broach using cs5 to do that or the cover image.

Miles to go before calibre has anything to worry about.....


-bjc

charleski
07-19-2010, 12:24 PM
So unless it's hidden in some preference, font embedding doesn't seem to happen in cs5.It does.

This video purposely glosses over the subject of embedding fonts since it's aimed at making epubs for the ipad.

Metadata was being entered through i-tunes. CS4 wasn't great on metadata either, but he didn't even broach using cs5 to do that or the cover image.As might be obvious from the 'book' he's producing in the video, it is aimed at small-time content creators (the type who might want to cash in with an 'iPad Tips' book that tells the user how to turn the machine on...). InDesign lifts the bulk of the metadata straight from that specified for the document itself, and is reasonably comprehensive in filling in fields like rights, description, location, coverage etc, as long as those have been entered correctly.

Miles to go before calibre has anything to worry about.....Why would a database program have to worry about InDesign? Anyone using calibre to create epubs is just making life hard for themselves.

brewt
07-20-2010, 11:12 AM
So, no font embedding on the ipad?

charleski: Do you have cs5? (I don't so my opnions may not matter too much...)

What would cheer me up on Adobe is to have hyperlinks retained on the placed word doc.

-bjc

JSWolf
07-20-2010, 11:18 AM
So, no font embedding on the ipad?

charleski: Do you have cs5? (I don't so my opnions may not matter too much...)

What would cheer me up on Adobe is to have hyperlinks retained on the placed word doc.

-bjc

iBooks does not support font embedding. So if you were to embed fonts, iBooks would ignore that.

gardefjord
07-24-2010, 06:24 AM
If you don't have InDesign, go download a trial version.
I've figured out what was wrong, had pages which was on "odd pages" and "even pages", this obviously dosen't work. But this thread sure seams to becoming interesting :)

rdopfel
09-07-2010, 12:45 PM
hi charleski and others, i do hope that you are able to help me.
you said this which is exactly what i am attempting -successful but inconsistent and i do not understand what i am actually doing.

"The generated ToC used to govern the file-splitting won't show up in the ePub, if you want a ToC in the actual ePub rather than using the one generated by the ebook reader, then you'd need to create one yourself using links and anchors."

i've been self-learning indesign cs5 with the free trial using tutorials, podcasts, forums such as this - made much progress but the TOC is a real problem - i will not admit how many days and hours i've already tried to sort it all out. Your quote above - just the way you describe what you do - lead me to post.
although the below now seems to work, if you don't mind reading thru you will see that I feel that I need to understand what is happening.

new > book
add each chapter [chapter1, chapter2 etc.]
select chapter1 > assign paragraph style 'chaptertitle'
select hyperlink > text anchor > chapter1
-repeat these steps in each chapter.

result [what i think ] each chapter uses it's 'chaptertitle' as the anchor - or place that one would jump to from the navigation panel on an ebook device.

My method cont.
new > doc > name it tocchapters
'place' table of contents [this is a document of the actual table of contents from the print version]
select chapter1 (the text in this tocchapter document
> assign paragraphstyle 'chaptertitle'
click hyperlinks > click on the icon of the anchor > navigate to the correct .indd file
> select chapter1 > select the anchor from drop down

repeat this for each chapter (each separate .indd chapter document) in the table of contents.
add this .indd to the book using the + sign.

make certain 'tocchapters.indd' is selected
layout > table of contents
toc style says default (it is only when i click save file that i can name it so at this point it is default)
title contents (where or why does this show up ? what does it mean ? i leave it.)
include paragraph style 'chaptertitle'
my options:
- no page #s (it's and ebook)
check create pdf bookmarks
deselect replace existing toc
check include book documents

click save toc style button > name it bookchaptertoc


when i export it as an epub
table of contents:
check inculde indesign TOC entries
tocstyle bookchaptertoc
check suppress autoentries for documents

this is NOW working in the adobe digital reader.
i can click each chapter name and it jumps to the chapter.
BUT the page that is the actual Table of Contents in the ebook only shows up when i scroll past the bookcover
AND
chapter one is a blue link
why ?

Questions.
Is my method efficient ?
Will this work on sonyreaders, ipads, smartphones, kindles ?

This is a bit long but if anyone wants to clear me up on the below it would be great.

1. Why do some of the tutorials do something where they end up 'floating text' into the toc. I do not understand how this works - technically.
This was happening to me - i would see the little piece of text attached to the pointer and until i figured out that i had to click outside of all of the text frames more than 1x to get rid of it - i was getting duplicate copies of chapter names - or so i think that was why.

2. Also i ran into this - if you can follow and let me know how I should have reversed it. I totally corrupted more than one of the tocs that i had working.
the result in the navigation panel of adobe digital reader brought in all of the 'footnotes' to the toc in the adobe digital reader navigation panel.
I think it happened when i tried to 'load' to the toc to another trialbook and i all of the boxes checked [basic paragraph style1 chapterheadings, footnotes etc. etc)

3. The other major problem was that I would get 2 instances of the chapter names in the navigation panel. Some suggested that I make certain that i deselect 'replace existing toc' and i did this and it worked but somehow i did something and started getting 2 instances again.
It is the 2nd instance of each title that actually works as a link to each chapter.


Thanks for the help. My book has 8 chapters with footnotes some of which are hyperlinks to websites and they all import well into indesign doc.

charleski
09-07-2010, 08:57 PM
It would be a lot easier to work out what your problems are if you create some sample documents that show the issues you're having.

One thing I did forget to mention is that InDesign CS5 has a known bug with internal links when 'Include InDesign ToC Entries' is ticked, as it fails to include the correct filename along with the name of the anchor. If your book uses a lot of links in the text (e.g. for footnotes or an index), then it's a better idea to export without the InDesign-generated ncx ToC and edit the output with either Sigil (convert paragraphs with the relevant heading styles to <h1> etc tags) or Calibre (use epub-to-epub conversion and insert an XPath expression that will pick up the styles used in your chapter headings).

But if the only hyperlinks are on the ToC page then it's easy to edit that manually and enter the required filenames to go with the anchors.

rdopfel
09-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Hi Charleski and others. Thank you Charles for responding.
Okay - I think i have fixed my problem with the toc.

I tried a bunch of stuff basically deleting every instance of every paragraph style, searching every file for any created toc syles, deleting part3 which would just stopped showing up on the nav panel in adobe digitial editions....
.
A kind fella named Marcus on an adobe forum looked at the files.
He fixed it using dreamweaver and going into the css. Haven't used dreamweaver in years but I did love it to make webpages !!

But i want to complete this task myself - if possible so I went back at it.

I ended up uninstalling the indesigncs5 and checked the box for preferences - just an instinct.
i reinstalled and now i can get the chapter to show up in the nav panel

Not certain how this will continue since i have many.

My question has to do with the glich you mentioned. I've invested so much time using indesign (learning it) I do have footnotes and they work fine in adobe digital editions.

Why might this be a problem ?

thanks again for responding.
regina

charleski
09-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Footnotes and other internal links will work fine as long as you don't rely on InDesign to generate the overall ToC, i.e. keep 'Include InDesign ToC Entries' unchecked. You will then need to generate the ncx ToC yourself in either Sigil or Calibre.

http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/2010/06/indesign-cs5-creates-faulty-links-in.html

Chang
11-02-2010, 07:52 AM
My problem is about images. InDesign CS5 changes the image resolution to 72 ppi during the EPUB export. It also renames all the image files. In CS3 and CS4 versions there used to be option to keep the image as original so InDesign wouldn't do anything for the images. In CS5 this option is gone and I really miss it. I used to edit all my images in PhotoShop and didn't let InDesign to mess up my images. Anyone else missing the setting for keeping the images as originals? Any idea is Adobe bringing this option back?

Here's a good article about InDesign CS5 editing the photos: http://carijansen.com/2010/09/13/image-quality-and-epub/ (http://carijansen.com/2010/09/13/image-quality-and-epub/)

gardefjord
11-05-2010, 04:58 AM
I do think you can keep the originals, posting a screenshot here, though my CS5 is in swedish I'll hope you understand where to put your settings. It's in the "export for ePub" window. http://img.skitch.com/20101105-x3bd8hf5eabfpatgbktp2ug9d.jpg

Chang
11-08-2010, 06:24 AM
That's weird :blink: Howcome you have that option but I don't have? At first, I thought it's because I didn't have the latest InDesign version but after updating InDesign to the latest version, nothing changed in the settings menu. I added screenshot of my settings menu in attachments.

charleski
11-08-2010, 01:39 PM
Yes, that's the way the export filter looks on English CS5. This option was present in the CS4 filter, but not any more. Strange that it's still present in the Swedish version.

The best option is to swap the images out for optimised versions once the epub is exported. The alternative would be to fake it out by making sure all images are specified as 72ppi (with no resampling) in Photoshop and leaving the Formatted box unchecked.

Adjust
11-08-2010, 08:48 PM
Correct I don't have a keep original option there either...

Adobe have really screwed the pooch with ePub CS5 output

NewDay
11-08-2010, 09:52 PM
I agree, Adjust. It's a sloppy piece of work. Very disappointing.

pholy
11-09-2010, 07:22 AM
If you must use InDesign to create epub files, at least go to

http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/

and pick up Epub Straight to the Point. Aside from its excellent general info, it has a whole chapter devoted to fixing InDesign created problems...

Valloric
11-09-2010, 08:07 AM
If you must use InDesign to create epub files, at least go to

http://www.pigsgourdsandwikis.com/

and pick up Epub Straight to the Point. Aside from its excellent general info, it has a whole chapter devoted to fixing InDesign created problems...

From the looks of the TOC (http://www.elizabethcastro.com/epub/toc.html), her advice seems to be to go from a Word file to InDesign to make an epub. That's terrible advice. The fact that she had to write "a whole chapter devoted to fixing InDesign created problems" should have told her that...

NewDay
11-09-2010, 10:11 AM
She covered Word for folks who don't have InDesign. You can't judge that book simply by the TOC.

Valloric
11-09-2010, 10:55 AM
She covered Word for folks who don't have InDesign. You can't judge that book simply by the TOC.

Of course I can't. That's why I'm interested in what the book actually talks about, and since this thread apparently has people who read it, I'm asking what is is the pipeline she advocates.

If it's interesting, I may buy the book out of curiosity. One can always learn new things.

Adjust
11-09-2010, 05:10 PM
She describes two methods of producing epubs. Via Word, and via InDesign.

What I do, is layout the book using InDesign (for Print version) and then do the conversion to epub from that.

I, however, understand that what InDesign makes is simply the epub container with the relevant files needed. To get the decent ePub from ID requires alot more hand coding work.

Liz, does an excellent job describing what ID gives you straight up and what it doesn't. She also goes into detail about how to fix the problems ID creates. For example.

Not adding the Date into the meta data etc etc...

Chang
11-10-2010, 05:08 AM
How have you solved this kind of problem:
My book contains only 1st level headings and they don't start on a new page. How can I keep the book layout as it is and still get the headings in TOC? If I leave the "use 1st level entries as chapter breaks" unchecked, InDesign will chop my chapters by itself with ugly result. I bet somebody has faced the same problem because not in every book a new chapter means a new page :)

Adjust
11-10-2010, 05:56 PM
I don't do Automatic TOC generation as I think it's flakey. Doing a search for TOC problems here and on the Adobe Forums proves it.

I always do the TOC linking manually after I've made the epub. By unzipping and editing the toc.ncx file.
e.g.
Each entry in the toc is listed like this:

<navPoint id="navpoint-10" playOrder="11"><navLabel><text>Chapter_05</text></navLabel><content src="Chapter_05.xhtml"/></navPoint>

So all you have to do is move the </navPoint> around to create the TOC levels.

Title page </navPoint>
Part One
Chapter One </navPoint>
Chapter Two </navPoint></navPoint>
Part Two
Chapter Three</navPoint>
Chapter Four</navPoint></navPoint>

Which will look like this:

Title page
Part One
Chapter One
Chapter Two
Part Two
Chapter Three
Chapter Four

Chang
11-11-2010, 02:10 AM
So do you manually cut your whole document into smaller documents and export your epub from a book?

Adjust
11-11-2010, 03:48 AM
Yes. I think I have much more control over it and its parts that way

nhmuse
08-15-2011, 04:25 PM
Hello - no one has posted to this thread for quite some time, but I am looking for other people who are using the InDesign CS5 to epub and mobi workflow on MacOSx.

I have found Liz Castro's epub book very helpful http://www.elizabethcastro.com/epub/ But it doesn't answer all of my questions.

I have also found Anne-Marie Concepcion's video tutorials at Lynda.com very helpful. http://www.lynda.com/InDesign-CS5-tutorials/to-EPUB-Kindle-and-iPad/75445-2.html

These are great resources but I still have issues to resolve.

I posted a new thread a few moments ago with my current experimental workflow. It has info about the software I'm using -- Sigil, Springy, BBEdit or Dreamweaver, and Amazon Kindle Previewer.

I am interested in discovering the simplest, quickest, easiest route from printed book InDesign files to epub and mobi. I'm not interested in making the ebooks look exactly like the printed books, so I've been simplifying my print design files to make the conversion go more smoothly and be compatible with as many devices/readers as possible. (HA!)

KISS -- keep it simple stupid -- is my motto at present!

If you are interested, let's start a forum for this workflow - how do you start a forum?

thank you...

mariyak
10-09-2011, 07:56 PM
Hello, everyone I read those post and I got lost. :) I am not sure if you already find a solution to the inside TOC in indesign cs5.0, However, I have been struggling with this fo a month now and yesterday I found my solution after I wached one of the video lessons of lynda. She gave a link where you can download a script that will fixs the bugs for exporting hyperlinks and cross reference in indesign cs5. Thr only downsize is that do not work with the book option in indesign.
The link where you fan download the sript and there are instructions how to install it and use it is:
www.teusdejong.nl
Hope it will work for someone else.

nhmuse
10-14-2011, 08:34 AM
Hello - regarding the TOC in indesign cs5 - you can't generate the toc from withing ID5 and export it out. it doesn't work that way. However, you still need to name a stylesheet for the TOC. If you get Elizabeth Castro's Epub Straight to the Point ebook, she tells you the exact steps to follow to export to epub. After that, however, I use Sigil to doctor the exported files. After this point, the instructions in her book are okay, but need to be updated.
There is a fair amount of fixing to do to the ID5 exported epub. You have to know html and CSS, and understand the xml in the .ncx files. I have had good success if the book is all in one InDesign file.
I also watched all of the epub tutorials on lynda.com and got snippets of information that helped a lot. It also helps to inspect someone else's epub in Sigil so you can see what they did, and use that as a guide.
Has anyone tried BookBaby's service? I would like to see an epub that was created by them if anyone can suggest one, that would be great. If you would like to see an epub I did recently, take a look at Rodman Philbrick's Listening to Kids in America available at Barnes & Noble and for the Kindle at Amazon.

thanks for this thread and this forum. other posts and this one have helped me tremendously!

wannabee
10-17-2011, 08:16 PM
. . . . . . . . you can't generate the toc from withing ID5 and export it out. it doesn't work that way. . . . . . . . . Yes you can, it can be achieved this way.

If you Create h1, h2, h3 paragraph styles and use them for chapter headers, section headers and subheadings you can then create a Table of Contents from the LAYOUT menu. When you save the TOC the pointer cursor will display PLACE TEXT. Place it anywhere on the pasteboard off the page. The TOC will display in it's own text box.
When exporting to ePbub the TOC will be included. See the attachment of the InDesign export dialogue box which features the settings for exporting the TOC from InDesign that I use. Don't include fonts if you require it to validate.

nhmuse
10-21-2011, 09:21 AM
thanks, Wannabee -- that gives you a text version of the TOC, but not a linked version that would appear as part of the ereader interface, correct?

wannabee
10-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Correct. If you want an inline TOC you have to manually create one using hyperlinks.

JSWolf
10-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Correct. If you want an inline TOC you have to manually create one using hyperlinks.

But remember, this is ePub. It just looks silly to have an internal toc when ePub has toc.ncx.

Jellby
10-28-2011, 05:39 AM
It just looks silly to have an internal toc when ePub has toc.ncx.

Not necessarily. The internal TOC can contain pictures, descriptions, etc., and be in general more verbose than the NCX.

In some cases, they will both be the same, and then it's redundant, granted. But in some cases there is more info in the TOC than a simple list of chapters.

nhmuse
10-28-2011, 11:48 AM
Yes, Jellby! Actually, I've seen in the recommendations somewhere on the mobileread or Amazon site, or maybe it was in Liz Castro's book or in multiple references, that doing both kinds of TOC is recommended, because some readers prefer the internal TOC, which can be made "richer" as you described, and some readers prefer the built-in toc.ncx. So you are pleasing the most people if you do both.

JSWolf
10-28-2011, 11:52 AM
Not necessarily. The internal TOC can contain pictures, descriptions, etc., and be in general more verbose than the NCX.

In some cases, they will both be the same, and then it's redundant, granted. But in some cases there is more info in the TOC than a simple list of chapters.

In most cases, it's nothing more then a duplication of toc.nxc and not needed. Then they go an link the chapter headers back to the internal ToC. Not good at all. And this (IMHO) is because of Amazon so when they convert the ePub to mobi, the ToC is not at the end which is a software flaw in the conversion and not an ePub issue.

JSWolf
10-28-2011, 11:54 AM
Yes, Jellby! Actually, I've seen in the recommendations somewhere on the mobileread or Amazon site, or maybe it was in Liz Castro's book or in multiple references, that doing both kinds of TOC is recommended, because some readers prefer the internal TOC, which can be made "richer" as you described, and some readers prefer the built-in toc.ncx. So you are pleasing the most people if you do both.

How are you pleasing both? If you have people who prefer toc.nxc, then having the internal ToC is not pleasing at all. Unless the internal ToC is that much better, there's no need for it. Get rid of it. It just makes you look like you are cow-towing to Amazon.

DaleDe
10-28-2011, 02:13 PM
I suspect you are not going to convince John to change his opinion. The best bet is to ignore his comments on internal TOC, they are his opinion and not the opinion of the management.

Dale

JSWolf
10-28-2011, 04:13 PM
I suspect you are not going to convince John to change his opinion. The best bet is to ignore his comments on internal TOC, they are his opinion and not the opinion of the management.

Dale

A lot of people I've talked to feel the same or similar about internal ToC in ePub. Why do you think it's a good idea to go backwards with the ToC?

DaleDe
10-28-2011, 07:34 PM
A lot of people I've talked to feel the same or similar about internal ToC in ePub. Why do you think it's a good idea to go backwards with the ToC?

Well it is not backwards, just different.
1. Sometimes the printed TOC is different text or different levels than online TOC. Some internal TOC's even include short descriptions.
2. The external TOC only displays one level at a time for multilevel for most readers and perhaps the user can use the internal TOC to see a full perspective of the book and it may be easier to scan through with more lines per page.
3. In addition some folks want to preserve the printed book to the extent possible. Others are also making a mobi book and they want them to be similar.
4. ePub 3 has adopted a pure html approach for the TOC using ol, li syntax so it is easy to have both using the exact same document. I do not see an internal TOC as doing any harm, it is easily skipped.
5. A few readers don't do multilevel well for the external TOC anyway thus making the internal one a good option.
6. External TOC doesn't use embedded fonts, while the internal one does.

Dale

JSWolf
10-28-2011, 07:41 PM
Well it is not backwards, just different.
1. Sometimes the printed TOC is different text or different levels than online TOC. Some internal TOC's even include short descriptions.
2. The external TOC only displays one level at a time for multilevel for most readers and perhaps the user can use the internal TOC to see a full perspective of the book and it may be easier to scan through with more lines per page.
3. In addition some folks want to preserve the printed book to the extent possible. Others are also making a mobi book and they want them to be similar.
4. ePub 3 has adopted a pure html approach for the TOC using ol, li syntax so it is easy to have both using the exact same document. I do not see an internal TOC as doing any harm, it is easily skipped.
5. A few readers don't do multilevel well for the external TOC anyway thus making the internal one a good option.
6. External TOC doesn't use embedded fonts, while the internal one does.

Dale

1. I find those just too bloated.
2. Still it's in the way and when you get books that have pages of ToC, it just gets to be a pest having to flip past.
3. Preserving the printed book...most novels don't have a ToC. So an internal ToC is not preserving anything as the internal ToC never actually existed in print.
4. Easily skipped in some cases, not all. And it doesn't look good.
5. Blame the software, not the format. Most readers use ADE and ADE works with multilevel toc.ncx just fine.
6. But it's there and annoying no matter what font.

pholy
10-29-2011, 10:07 AM
I give up, Jon; we're never going to convince you to to tolerate an in-line ToC.

Now you give up, too. Your rationale will not convince me to change my opinion.

That's all it is: opinions; you have yours, I have mine.

If you are having trouble skipping past my in-line ToC you can always use the external one to find the place where you want to start reading...

JSWolf
10-29-2011, 11:42 AM
I give up, Jon; we're never going to convince you to to tolerate an in-line ToC.

Now you give up, too. Your rationale will not convince me to change my opinion.

That's all it is: opinions; you have yours, I have mine.

If you are having trouble skipping past my in-line ToC you can always use the external one to find the place where you want to start reading...

One thing I've never read or heard from anyone...

"Gee, I wish this ePub had an internal ToC."