I don't know why this rumor keeps going around, but Mowgli is NOT for sale.:)

Whenever I see Mogui's name, I think Mowgli.

I suspect that the module will also handle the slower sppeds, so it's probably going to be almost anywhere that you can get Cell Phone coverage, you'll be able to download. That's urban and the transportation corridors, or probably 90% of the population.

WiFi is definitely NOT ubiquitous. I don't know of anywhere outside of my house that I've been able to get WiFi, while I've been able to get EV-DO to work in 90% of the places I've been lately. The places where I couldn't get EV-DO, I couldn 't get wifi either.

You can get WiFi at, uh, for example, my house.

Alisa, mogui is pronounced mow (the lawn) gway. 伊恩

Alisa, mogui is pronounced mow (the lawn) gway. 伊恩Don't stop there: ... and it means ...?

Sorry NatCh. Translation services cost extra!

I thought it was 'more guy' like I thought you were! :laugh4:

Sorry NatCh. Translation services cost extra!Okay, you leave me no choice but to ... use google!

Seems to root back to Hebrew (by way of Scottish influence) to "God is gracious" or "God is great" -- am I in the right ballpark? :wink:

Okay, you leave me no choice but to ... use google!

Seems to root back to Hebrew (by way of Scottish influence) to "God is gracious" or "God is great" -- am I in the right ballpark? :wink:
Try the Wikipedia. It's more like Demon or Devil or some obscure 3rd century Chinese warlord.

Try the Wikipedia. It's more like Demon or Devil or some obscure 3rd century Chinese warlord.I was working from the (presumed) Chinese characters he tacked on the end of his post. :pleased:

I was working from the (presumed) Chinese characters he tacked on the end of his post. :pleased:
I was going by his user name. If you read the wikipedia entry, I suspect that they are the same thing. The original meaning has been corrupted a bit over time.

Quite possibly, so, RalphTrickey. :nice:

C'mon guys he left a clue... lawn... Garden Gnome!

C'mon guys he left a clue... lawn... Garden Gnome!
Careful! I could put a spell on you!

I suspect that the module will also handle the slower sppeds, so it's probably going to be almost anywhere that you can get Cell Phone coverage, you'll be able to download. That's urban and the transportation corridors, or probably 90% of the population.

WiFi is definitely NOT ubiquitous. I don't know of anywhere outside of my house that I've been able to get WiFi, while I've been able to get EV-DO to work in 90% of the places I've been lately. The places where I couldn't get EV-DO, I couldn 't get wifi either.

Last check in our town there are ZERO 3G services and no plans to add them anytime soon. But that was a year ago I looked into it...

Meanwhile we do have a muni wifi that works for the most part...sorta...but almost anywhere I am in town I have wifi. It costs me about $15/mo for up to three simultaneous connections.

EVDO is expensive. $60/mo for so-called unlimited plans. Of course those unlimited plans are quite limited. Data caps and use restrictions are pretty restrictive.

OTOH, wifi can exist in every home with broadband...it can be had at McDonalds, Starbucks, Burger King, Borders, Barnes & Noble, UPS Stores, Kinko's...etc...wifi is a value added service many small business owners can easily afford to bring in customers.

Ignoring the technical merits of one service over the other...cost is the main issue...

I am just thinking that EVDO service is an expensive addition only a small subset of cellular consumers will have...wifi is pretty common, almost everywhere...the idea is to get the device into the hands of as many consumers as possible. Better to have a more flexible wireless option...so, hopefully it will come standard with wifi and have an option to add an EVDO module.

I am not aware of EV-DO being available in the UK, out 3G phone network is W-CDMA as fas as I know.

However, even assuming that there is a W-CDMA or even a GPRS version of the Kindle for the UK/Europe, surely this would mean it needed a SIM card to access the network. Does this mean that Amazon will have some mega deal with a cell network to provide the connection so it "just works", or will Kindle users all have to shell out for another cell connection plan to use the Whispernet?

Careful! I could put a spell on you!

:laugh4:

I am not aware of EV-DO being available in the UK, out 3G phone network is W-CDMA as fas as I know.

However, even assuming that there is a W-CDMA or even a GPRS version of the Kindle for the UK/Europe, surely this would mean it needed a SIM card to access the network. Does this mean that Amazon will have some mega deal with a cell network to provide the connection so it "just works", or will Kindle users all have to shell out for another cell connection plan to use the Whispernet?
The documents said it was EV-DO/CDMA a year ago. I assume/hope that they've set up contracts with a major carrier to allow for downloads. I'd hope that they are covering the cost of that in any subscriptions/downloads.

Amazon probably set themselves up as their own cellular carrier and has signed peering agreements. Not exactly peering, since Amazon will only be leeching. But at any rate, this would do away with the need for monthly usage billing to the customer. Amazon just pays the carriers for actual usage at wholesale rates. Then just calls that money the "cost of doing business". The money to pay for bandwith would come a little from device sales and a little on book sales percentages.

All speculation of course.

Speculation it may be, MikeF74, but it's an excellent idea -- certainly the only approach I'd consider buying into as a prospective customer.

I hope the wonks at Amazon are as clever as you are. :grin:

Someone should search cellular company FCC filings for "whisper" to see if they can find any fairly new carriers with that in their name.

All I really want to know is this... Will I be able to buy a Kindle - this week - for a very low price as long as I sign up for a 2, 3 or 5 year ebook subscription program! By very low I mean less than $100!

When someone can tell me this and where the Kindle is listed within Amazon, I'm ready to buy!

Derek

EVDO is expensive. $60/mo for so-called unlimited plans. Of course those unlimited plans are quite limited. Data caps and use restrictions are pretty restrictive.

Actually my "unlimited" EVDO data from Sprint is $15. I would imagine that the amount of use they would be anticipating from Kindle would be fairly small and Amazon probably could get a special pricing deal possibly with a small per-download fee.

All I really want to know is this... Will I be able to buy a Kindle - this week - for a very low price as long as I sign up for a 2, 3 or 5 year ebook subscription program! By very low I mean less than $100!


I think the answer to that is "definitely not".

Just skimming but that thing looks too large IMO..... I guess I am just happy with the sony reader..........Doesn't take much LOL.

Rumors are that the Kindle, Amazon's leaked E Ink e-reader, may be heavily subsidized to push the online retailer's e-book sales. Quoting Nick Hampshire of Afaics:


Related: Amazon E Ink reader? (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7569) (with specs), Remember Kindle? (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8111) (with pics)


No... the Kindle won't cost a mere $50. The SONY READER costs $300, so it's no surprise that the Kindle costs $400.

The Sony Reader and Amazon Kindle are relatively comparable on most levels. The Reader is cheaper and it doesn't charge you for RSS feeds, but some people can just pay for stuff like that. The specs are laid out here:

http://comparati.com/1125-Amazon-Kindle-vs-Sony-Reader

But... The major differentiators are (and these are very big deals):

1) The Kindle has EV-DO internet.

2) The Kindle has 4x the titles to choose from.

You just can't argue with those two facts. That's why the Sony Reader was a dud and the Kindle will pave the way for success in this market.

1) The Kindle has EV-DO internet.

2) The Kindle has 4x the titles to choose from.

You just can't argue with those two facts. That's why the Sony Reader was a dud and the Kindle will pave the way for success in this market.

Well, you *can* argue those two facts, or at least their relevance or how "big" they are.

EV-DO is in many ways less useful than, for example, wi-fi. About 60% of the land area in the USA doesn't have sprint EVDO, and as far as I know, no where outside the USA. But many places have wi-fi hotspots that truly are free (i.e. no charges for rss, blogs, or emails from yourself of your own content.)

The 4x the titles to choose from is quite misleading. A large number of those titles are not consumer titles, and it also includes a lot of public domain and vanity press titles that are either free elsewhere or not worth reading in the first place. Looking at consumer oriented titles from legit publishers, the advantage for amazon is pretty marginal.

All that said, the kindle is an interesting offering and I am curious whether it kills off sony and is successful enough for amazon to care.

The question is, how many units must amazon sell for them to consider this a success? I would venture it would have to be 5 times what sony sold, i.e. hundreds of thousands of units in the first year or so.

I come to that conclusion by noting that they devoted their entire front page for 3 days to this product during one of the busiest shopping weeks of the year, and as of this writing it still consumes 1/3 of the front page. That kind of push is worth many millions in revenue from an eye-balls point of view, they could have been pushing other items that are hot and would have sold many thousands of units.

Hence, anything less than a hundred thousand units in year one has to be considered a disaster for Amazon.

Fair enough, but judging by consumers' reactions to the Kindle, 100k is a very reachable number. Just getting a foot in the door in this business is a start. As handhelds merge with phones (and e-readers), Amazon is at least trying to stake a claim in this market. They're doing pretty well, too:

http://comparati.com/1125-Amazon-Kindle-vs-Sony-Reader

Even the Bookeen and Sony folks have ended up fairly happy.





Well, you *can* argue those two facts, or at least their relevance or how "big" they are.

EV-DO is in many ways less useful than, for example, wi-fi. About 60% of the land area in the USA doesn't have sprint EVDO, and as far as I know, no where outside the USA. But many places have wi-fi hotspots that truly are free (i.e. no charges for rss, blogs, or emails from yourself of your own content.)

The 4x the titles to choose from is quite misleading. A large number of those titles are not consumer titles, and it also includes a lot of public domain and vanity press titles that are either free elsewhere or not worth reading in the first place. Looking at consumer oriented titles from legit publishers, the advantage for amazon is pretty marginal.

All that said, the kindle is an interesting offering and I am curious whether it kills off sony and is successful enough for amazon to care.

The question is, how many units must amazon sell for them to consider this a success? I would venture it would have to be 5 times what sony sold, i.e. hundreds of thousands of units in the first year or so.

I come to that conclusion by noting that they devoted their entire front page for 3 days to this product during one of the busiest shopping weeks of the year, and as of this writing it still consumes 1/3 of the front page. That kind of push is worth many millions in revenue from an eye-balls point of view, they could have been pushing other items that are hot and would have sold many thousands of units.

Hence, anything less than a hundred thousand units in year one has to be considered a disaster for Amazon.

Fair enough, but judging by consumers' reactions to the Kindle, 100k is a very reachable number. Just getting a foot in the door in this business is a start. As handhelds merge with phones (and e-readers), Amazon is at least trying to stake a claim in this market. They're doing pretty well, too:

http://comparati.com/1125-Amazon-Kindle-vs-Sony-Reader

Even the Bookeen and Sony folks have ended up fairly happy.

Well, Amazon is not doing all this to "get a foot in the door." They want to not only dominated the ebook market but grow it ten-fold. Currently the entire market in english speaking countries is only about $25 million retail a year. Owning 100% of that tiny market would not interest Amazon in the slightest. If they cannot grow this industry into the hundreds of millions, which they *then* dominate, then they will exit this business within 2 to 3 years.

Sony, I'm afraid, is putting a brave face on. I don't see Sony surviving in the ebook business past 2008. Just look at the comments in some of the mobile read threads, littered with people saying "my kindle has replaced my sony", and almost nothing on the other side of that.

Sony was already struggling to justify their ebook venture. Kindle is the final nail in the coffin for Sony. I'll be amazed if they don't shut it down sometime in 2008. Normally these kinds of decision are made in June through August. The decision will be made before the manufacturing season for 2008 holidays begins in September.

Bookeen is a small private company and this may in fact be good for them by growing the market. Their requirements for revenue to stay in the game is no where near what sony's is. Big companies will dump products far faster than small companies will, in general.

I suppose if Sony does drop ebooks (and I don't know if they will, and I don't own a Sony Reader anyway), it's possible that someone else will buy that end of the business. Maybe even Amazon, but I kind of doubt it. They'd have to either support BBeB or provide a software patch to convert Sony devices into virtual Kindles, then convert existing Sony purchases to Kindle store purchases. I think that would be a brilliant move on their part (if Sony does exit the market), but it wouldn't be cheap for them.

On the other hand, Borders or Barnes & Noble might take on the Sony ebook business entirely.

Fair enough, but judging by consumers' reactions to the Kindle, 100k is a very reachable number. Just getting a foot in the door in this business is a start. As handhelds merge with phones (and e-readers), Amazon is at least trying to stake a claim in this market. They're doing pretty well, too:

http://comparati.com/1125-Amazon-Kindle-vs-Sony-Reader

Even the Bookeen and Sony folks have ended up fairly happy.
What a load of misinformation. There is a lot of it there. I've flagged a number of points for review as they are flat out wrong.

EV-DO is in many ways less useful than, for example, wi-fi. About 60% of the land area in the USA doesn't have sprint EVDO, and as far as I know, no where outside the USA. But many places have wi-fi hotspots that truly are free (i.e. no charges for rss, blogs, or emails from yourself of your own content.)

1. Kindle will automatically fall back on the slower Spring data network, covering pretty much everywhere in the U.S.

2. It's a matter of perspective. In my office, a big Fortune 500, there is NO open wifi, but sprint's network works just fine.

Just look at the comments in some of the mobile read threads, littered with people saying "my kindle has replaced my sony", and almost nothing on the other side of that.I'm not sure that's a very good point of comparison seeing as nobody had a Kindle before it launched two weeks ago -- how could they be replacing one with anything?

Right now folks who want the Sony over the Kindle would just buy a Sony. :shrug:

There are several threads talking about why folks went with or want to stick with their Sony Readers instead of going Kindle. In any case, it's no surprise that the Kindle fits some people's needs better than the Sony does, the reverse is true, and for that matter some are best served by the iLiad. I think it's waaaaay to early to announce a winner in this arena, especially when it's not entirely clear which devices will shake out to be direct competitors. :unafraid:

The biggest single drawback to the Kindle is that you can't do anything for free.

The biggest single drawback to the Kindle is that you can't do anything for free.

I've downloaded a bunch of free mobibooks and they work fine.

I've downloaded a bunch of free mobibooks and they work fine.

exactly, there are just a many free things you can do with the device as will any other eBook reader and for now there are even more.

You can submit files to convert and receive them via email for free.
You can create your own content for free in MobiPocket.
You can use non-DRM MobiePocket books for free.
You can browse the web for free.

Dale

exactly, there are just a many free things you can do with the device as will any other eBook reader and for now there are even more.
You can submit files to convert and receive them via email for free.
You can create your own content for free in MobiPocket.
You can use non-DRM MobiePocket books for free.
You can browse the web for free.Dale
I read somewhere that it cost US$0.10 to convert your own material for installation on the Kindle. Also the web access was restricted to Amazon's store. Is this obsolete information? Or is it just pre-launch speculation?

If I am mistaken, you may start stewing the crow.

I read somewhere that it cost US$0.10 to convert your own material for installation on the Kindle. Also the web access was restricted to Amazon's store. Is this obsolete information? Or is it just pre-launch speculation?I think the problem is more that it's incomplete info.

My understanding is that they charge you the 10¢ if you send the file to them for conversion and have them send it directly to your Kindle. If you have it sent to another e-mail address and xfer it via USB, there's no charge.

What I haven't heard anything about is if they charge you for your Kindle to receive e-mails. I'm wondering if you'd get charged if you turned around and e-mailed the file to your Kindle yourself. :chinscratch:

Any attachment sent to @kindle.com will be converted and go to the device. Any attachment sent to @free.kindle.com will be converted and bounced back to your Amazon.com username (email address).

The Kindle does not receive the contents of the email, just the attachment.

Also the web access was restricted to Amazon's store. Is this obsolete information? Or is it just pre-launch speculation?


You can browse any of the web you want -- just enter the URL or follow links. Whether the page will display well is another question, most pages are usable.

Also, if the website has a direct link to the prc, mobi, txt (etc) file, you can even download it direct to your kindle from the kindle and it will be added to your list of books and indexed. I can't use the mobileread prc links from the kindle (because they are behind funky php functions which makes the Kindle try to display the raw file rather than download it), but direct links to prc files, from, say, Project Gutenberg, work fine.

Currently there is no cost for web access, but Amazons reserves the option to charge for it in the future.

I read somewhere that it cost US$0.10 to convert your own material for installation on the Kindle. Also the web access was restricted to Amazon's store. Is this obsolete information? Or is it just pre-launch speculation?

If I am mistaken, you may start stewing the crow.

If you get the converted file sent via EVDO then it costs .10 for delivery but if you get it delivered by email it is free.

Web access is not limited today at all. It is called experimental and it is free. What will always be free is wikipedia access, store access including free EVDO delivery but for now everything is free.

Another thing that is free is that there is a dictionary preinstalled at no additional charge on the unit.

Dale

I read somewhere that it cost US$0.10 to convert your own material for installation on the Kindle. Also the web access was restricted to Amazon's store. Is this obsolete information? Or is it just pre-launch speculation?

If I am mistaken, you may start stewing the crow.

You are mistaken.

While it costs $0.10 to deliver attachments 'wirelessly' to your Kindle is free. By mailing them to yourname@free.kindle.com they will be converted for free and delivered to your email. You can them copy them via USB to your Kindle.

The web browser can access any web site, though it is limited in capability (mobile sites work best).