There have been observations that a few of the Connect online store e-book prices seem oddly out of line. We would like your help in compiling a list of these titles to pass on to Sony. (Thanks to Morbius for the idea.) No promises that anything will come of it, but surely Sony doesn't want their book prices to be set at prices that are not reasonable.

As the list grows, I will pass it to Sony for their consideration. If prices really are out of line, they might be able to work with the publishers on the price. There's no way to tell what Sony may or may not do with the list, or if publishers will want to work with Sony on pricing, but it seems to be in the best interest of everyone - customers, Sony and the publishers.

NOTE:This thread is NOT to be used for discussion of the store or pricing or general complaints about pricing. You can express those views here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7979).

Please provide all the relevant information for the book and pricing. Maybe that info like this is one way to start...
* Title
* Author
* Sony Connect price
* Competitor's price (Amazon, eReader, MobiPocket, etc)
* Is it available in paperback?

Links would be nice also. I'm sure a pattern will evolve as to how to best report these.

Remember that we're looking for prices that look out of whack, and might be a mistake, not a discussion of pricing or whether e-books are priced too high in general!

1. Anansi Boys
2. Neil Gaiman
3. $16
4. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=26681) , Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060515198/) : $8
5: Paperback

1. Coraline
2. Neil Gaiman
3. $10
4. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=14492) , Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Coraline-Neil-Gaiman/dp/0380807343/sr=1-2/qid=1160430880/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-4611293-7772746?ie=UTF8&s=books) : $6
5: Paperback

1. Thud!
2. Terry Pratchett
3. $16
4. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=26385) , Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060815310/) : $8
4. Paperback

1. Ilium
2. Dan Simmons
3. $16
4. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=14626) , Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0380817926/) : $8
5: Paperback

1. Radiant
2. James Alan Gardner
3. $15
4. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=24892) , Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0380813327/) : $8
5. Paperback

1. Exile's Return
2. Raymond E. Feist
3. $16
3. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=24309) , Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0380803275/): $8
5. Paperback

1. Salem Falls
2. Jodi Picoult
3. $19
4. eReader: $8.99
5. Paperback

1776 by David McCullough

Amazon: USD 10.80
Sony: USD 13.59

Well butter my backside and call me a biscuit! I was just doing some spot checking and Anansi Boys (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/037/217/400000000000000037217.html) has dropped to $6.39! In fact, they all seem to have dropped now.

Told ya Sony monitors this forum! :grin:

Didn't have time to do a lot of looking tonight, but here's some of the more serious "pricing errors" I was able to find:

1. The Truth (with jokes)
2. Al Franken
3. Sony price : $20.76
4. Amazon.Com : $10.20, BN.Com : $12.15
5: Paperback

1. Lies: And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
2. Al Franken
3. Sony price : $20.76
4. Amazon.Com : $10.78, BN.Com : $12.60
5: Paperback

1. The Book on Bush : How George W. (Mis)leads America
2. Eric Alterman, Mark J. Green
3. Sony price : $12.00
4. Amazon.Com : $4.50
5: Paperback

1. Dune: The Butlerian Jihad
2. Brian Herbert, Kevin J. Anderson
3. Sony price : $22.36
4. Amazon.Com : $7.99, BM.Com: $7.19
5: Paperback

Well butter my backside and call me a biscuit! I was just doing some spot checking and Anansi Boys (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/037/217/400000000000000037217.html) has dropped to $6.39! In fact, they all seem to have dropped now.

Told ya Sony monitors this forum! :grin:

Impressive. Well done, Sony!

Regarding categories, The Books of Magic should be at the graphic novels section (not fantasy), while Gibson's Neuromancer, Dick's Valis and The Divine Invasion, Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and Star Trek New Frontier should be at the sci-fi (not fantasy).

Sometimes the line between sci-fi and fantasy is blurry, but these cases are kind of obvious.

They also have quite some Sci-fi and Fantasy in the Astronomy section.

And....here's another list I was able to put together today, where Sony's prices seem way out of line. So in spite of some of the titles changing price, there still seems to be lots that don't make sense.

Actually, while compiling this latest list, I came up with what seems to be a pretty easy way to find mis-priced titles....simply pick a category, and start paging through the thumbnails, looking for anything in the $15-$20+ range. Invariably, I'm able to find paperback pricing for those titles on Amazon or Barnes and Nobel. So I think a good thing for Sony to do (rather than having us try to search all these out) would be to have their own folks just scan their database for books in that price range, and compare that list to paperback pricing/availability. I think they'd find where all their problems are!

Anyway Bob, as their still seem to be lots of overpriced titles, I'm hoping you'll still provide the lists supplied here to Sony, rather than assume they've fixed everything! And thanks for doing this! Here's my latest list:

1. The Dark Tower (book 7)
2. Stephen King
3. Sony price : $19.99
4. Amazon.Com : $9.99, BN.Com : $13.64
5: Paperback

1. Dead as a Doornail
2. Charlaine Harris
3. Sony price : $18.36
4. Amazon.Com : $7.99, BN.Com : $7.19
5: Paperback

1. Bag of Bones
2. Stephen King
3. Sony price : $22.40
4. Amazon.Com : $7.99, BN.Com : $7.19
5: Paperback

1. Goliath
2. Steve Allen
3. Sony price : $22.40
4. Amazon.Com : $7.99, BN.Com : $7.19
5: Paperback

1. The Last Vampire
2. Whitley Strieber
3. Sony price : $19.96
4. Amazon.Com : $6.99
5: Paperback

1. Are Men Necessary?
2. Maureen Dowd
3. Sony price : $20.76
4. Amazon.Com : $10.20, BN.Com : $12.15
5: Paperback

1. Without Mercy
2. Jack Higgins
3. Sony price : $20.76
4. Amazon.Com : $9.99, BN.Com : $8.99
5: Paperback

1. Cell: A Novel by
2. Stephen King
3. Sony price : $13.59
4. Amazon.Com : $9.99
5: Paperback

Thanks Morbius!

Of course, I'll be glad to make sure Sony sees the list every so often. Can't promise that they will always change prices, of course, but it's obviously is good to have that info available for them. Hopefully, as you suggest, they are looking at long term solutions to the pricing anomalies. Depending on the information and people that are available, plus maybe other circumstances like if there is any interaction with publishers (although Jane was suggesting they might not need to be in the loop), it might either be easy or hard to fix.

Regardless of whether they can continue to move prices, it'still pretty amazing that a company like Sony would even show this kind of interest in issues like this! I think the desire to get things right is half the battle.

1. The Rehnquist Choice
2. John Dean
3. Sony price: $20.80
4. Mobipocket (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=13324) and eReader (http://www.ereader.com/product/detail/5705?book=The_Rehnquist_Choice:_The_Untold_Story_o f_the_Nixon_Appointment_that_Redefined_the_Supreme _Court) : $9.99
5. Paperback

Regarding categories, The Books of Magic should be at the graphic novels section (not fantasy),

Actually, the "The Books of Magic" series probably is better off in the fantasy section...these are novelizations of the graphic novels...not the graphic novels themselves...here is a link to Amazon.com listing for the first volume:

Books of Magic #1: The Invitation at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Books-Magic-Invitation/dp/0064473791/sr=8-4/qid=1160575038/ref=pd_bbs_4/002-9842601-0004845?ie=UTF8&s=books)


- ChimpManZee

Actually, the "The Books of Magic" series probably is better off in the fantasy section...these are novelizations of the graphic novels...not the graphic novels themselves...

Sacrilege!

Another one, which I had intended to buy, but of course not at this price:

1. The Patriots Club
2. Christopher Reich
3. Connect $14.36
4. Amazon $7.99
5. Mass Market Paperback


I've put an update and some comments about this in the price discussion thread (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41864#post41864). (Still trying to keep this thread "clean.")

I have, on numerous occasions, emailed the Connect site with specific titles priced in error based upon the hardback prices. On every single occasion, they have corrected it within a day or two.

freakonomics - amazon $14.38, sony $15.96

Title: The Stories of Your Life and Others
Author: Ted Chiang
Sony Connect price: $19.96
Competitor's price: $10.95 (Amazon)
Is it available in paperback?: Yes

Well, this is a whole lot less encouraging than early indications led folks to believe. Seems from the recent threads that items that initially seemed to drop in price, supposedly in response to this thread, went right back up to their previously high prices. Every one of the books I listed still show at their inflated hardback-comparable price.

So perhaps we didn't have the impact on Sony we at first thought we had...which is going to be sad. I'm certainly not going to be spending $20+ dollars for an ebook version of something I could buy in paperback for $9 or less just about anywhere. Unfortunately, this is the exact kind of thing that has kept ebooks and e-readers from taking off. Not nearly enough content available, the company (in this case, Sony) usually claiming that until there's more buyers available, there won't be more content, yet that same company attempts to sell what content they have at such a high price no one is willing to purchase it. Classic Catch-22.

I'm going to try to put together another list of overpriced titles later today, and then perhaps Bob, you should go ahead and give the list of everything that's been added to this thread up to now over to whomever you might know at Sony, to see if they're really interested. I think it's becoming clear now that whatever caused some initial price drops we saw, it wasn't permanent, and may not have been at all related to what was happening on MobileRead. So Sony may not have someone watching these complaints here, and might not know about them after all. Or if they do, they're apparently not as concerned with them as we hoped they would be!

Perhaps not as far as Sony is concerned. I guess, some of it depends on how the books are digitized. If Sony got the digital copies of the originals from the publishers at no cost, then selling them at near the price of the paper copies is clearly an abomination. But if Sony actually had to hire help to OCR the paper books and then proofread, edit and verify the digital copies, then the cost to Sony may be more than the cost to Amazon, etc. Being a big corporation, I am sure Sony spent many millions of dollars on their Connect store web site, and it costs them more millions every month to keep it up and running...

It has been now established that the Connect store's selection of books is not particularly wide. I wonder then, how may people are actually buying books there. Not just using their $50 vouchers, but spending some of their hard earned money on eBooks. I am afraid they are not yet at iTunes numbers, not even close. So, the economies of scale have not picked up just yet.

I just hope Sony is not losing some major money on hardware costs as well, or we may see the Reader go the way of REB-1100 and Rocket eBook real soon. :uhoh2:

Sony corrected several price errors that I brought to their attention. As of this morning the corrections remain intact.

Fortunately, it doesn't seem like the pricing fixes were a loss as they seem to be back!The book that I had noted has also returned to the lower corrected price again (Patriots Club). I think they must have just had some problems with the way the pricing works at the store, and their software or store updates may have been undoing the fixes they made.

But I can assure you they do pay attention to MobileRead. We can't expect them to be at our constant whim and fancy, but I am certain they really do want to make things work well for their customers. That's not always as easy as it looks, and paying attention to us is not something they have to do... but it does go to show that they really care about what they are doing. Remarkably so, in fact!

They should pay attention to us, MR readers bought every device they built.
HEY! SONY! HOW ABOUT SELLING SOME IN CANADA!

Perhaps not as far as Sony is concerned. I guess, some of it depends on how the books are digitized. If Sony got the digital copies of the originals from the publishers at no cost, then selling them at near the price of the paper copies is clearly an abomination.Doesn't really matter what it costs Sony to process the books, porkupan, but rather what the pubs charge Sony for the books. They're the ones who set the pricing. :shrug:

A whole whack of Lisa Scottoline novels are mispriced at the hardcover price when mass market paperbacks have been out for years.

Devil's Corner
Lisa Scottoline
Connect Price: 15.96
Amazon MMP: 7.99

Killer Smile
Lisa Scottoline
Connect Price: 14.36
Amazon MMP: 7.99

The Vendetta Defense
Lisa Scottoline
Connect Price: 15.96
Amazon MMP: 7.99

Courting Trouble
Lisa Scottoline
Connect Price: 15.96
Amazon MMP: 7.99


Dirty Blonde ($15.96 at Connect) is still in hardcover, but has been out for over a year I think, and Amazon has it remaindered in place at $7.99.

Here's another:

The Martian Child
David Gerrold
Connect Price: 17.56
Amazon PB: 11.01

Shockwave
Stephen Walker

Connect Price: 15.96
Amazon: 7.99
PB and Hardcover both available.

The Collected Stories of Vernor Vinge

Amazon paperback: $11.86
Sony: Listed on book page at $23.95.

Edit: Correction. Now the Sony store lists different prices. Actual price (and listed as that on search results) $9.56.

Hot Damn!
James W. Hall

Sony Connect: $19.96
Amazon PB: $11.86

State of Fear
Michael Crichton
Connect Price: $15.96
Amazon MMP: $7.99

Prey
Michael Crichton
Connect Price: $15.96
Amazon MMP: $7.99

The Innocent
Harlan Coben
Connect Price: $21.56
Amazon PB: $9.99

from the connect main page:
The Kite Runner
Kahled Hosseini
Connect Price: $11.20
Amazon MMP: $7.87

This seems really silly. I'm sure that sony (or we) could put together a script that would go through every book on connect, then look it up on amazon, and compare.

Another one:

Olympos
Dan Simmons
Connect price: $15.96
Amazon paperback (http://www.amazon.com/Olympos-Dan-Simmons/dp/0380817934/sr=8-2/qid=1161226902/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-4854478-1622364?ie=UTF8&s=books): $7.99

I'm ready to buy this when the price drops.

losing my mind by Tom debaggio
Connect $19.20
amazon $11.62

State of Denial: Bush at War, Part III (Hardcover)
by Bob Woodward
connect price $12.95
amazon price $13.59

Bad Boy Ballmer: The Man Who Rules Microsoft
by Fredric Alan Maxwell
connect price $15.96
amazon price $12.95

A Lawyer's Life
by Johnnie Cochran
connect price $20.76
amazon price $5.99

State of Denial: Bush at War, Part III (Hardcover)
by Bob Woodward
connect price $12.95
amazon price $13.59

Bad Boy Ballmer: The Man Who Rules Microsoft
by Fredric Alan Maxwell
connect price $15.96
amazon price $12.95
I think these are ok, a couple of dollar difference is understandable. And don't point out the ones they have cheaper, come on! :happy2:

whoops, I got those backwards:
State of Denial: Bush at War, Part III (Hardcover)
by Bob Woodward
connect price $13.59
amazon price $12.95

This seems really silly. I'm sure that sony (or we) could put together a script that would go through every book on connect, then look it up on amazon, and compare.

Sony could implement a new policy:

If you can find a paper edition at any book retailer located in the United States for less than our price for the same title as an ebook edition we'll refund you the difference plus 10%.

I just wanted to add a note or comment about the Connect Store version of Freakenomics. This is NOT the new expanded edition - it turns out they're charging full price for the old edition. :(

Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity
by David Allen
connect price $12.00
amazon price $9.00

Stuff that I am sensitive to:


1. Archform: Beauty
2. L. E. Modesitt Jr.
3. Connect:20.76
4. Amazon: 6.99
5. Paperback


1. Legacies
2. L. E. Modesitt Jr.
3. Connect: $22.36
4. Amazon: $7.99
5. Paperback

A Year in the Life of William Shakespeare: 1599 by James Shapiro
Connect: $15.96
Amazon paperback: $10.17

Shadow Puppets
Orson Scott Card

CONNECT - $20.76
Amazon - $6.99 (bargain hardcover http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Puppets-Orson-Scott-Card/dp/other-editions/B000212BTA/ref=dp_ed_all/102-1943012-5996152?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)
Amazon - $7.99 cover price (mass market paperback http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Puppets-Ender-Book-7/dp/0765340054/ref=ed_oe_p/102-1943012-5996152)

Well butter my backside and call me a biscuit! I was just doing some spot checking and Anansi Boys (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/037/217/400000000000000037217.html) has dropped to $6.39! In fact, they all seem to have dropped now.

Told ya Sony monitors this forum! :grin:

Eh... as of 10/27/06, Anansi Boys is back to $15.96.. I just went to purchase and, well, now I won't.

Eh... as of 10/27/06, Anansi Boys is back to $15.96.. I just went to purchase and, well, now I won't.

Same here, I just logged on to the Store to buy it, but NOT at that price. I will be back from time to time to see if it's back and proper.

I noticed Ilium by Dan Simmons went up to $15.96, I definitely didn't buy it at that price a couple of weeks ago. In fact I've been waiting for the sequel, Olympos, to come down from that price since it is in paperback. This is a step backwards!

I highly recommend that you email Customer Service and inform them when they are charging hardback prices for books that are out in paperback. They will fix it within 24-48 hours.

I don't understand why people are posting their findings here instead of emailing Connect directly. They do respond.

Prowly 'cause we've got a thread for it, Michele. :grin:

I'm beginning to wonder if they don't have a two server type of set up. I mean one "source server" from which a "production server" is updated on a scheduled basis. That might explain the re-changing prices -- if they only corrected the prices on the server that we see & buy from, and not the source server, then the changes would get wiped out as soon as it refreshed. :shrug:

If that is the case, then perhaps SonyStyle needs to train their SysAdmins a bit better. :smile:

I don't understand why people are posting their findings here instead of emailing Connect directly.

Because complaining here and making them change the prices is way cooler than complaining directly at them.

I don't understand why people are posting their findings here instead of emailing Connect directly. They do respond.
Well, in my experience this is simply not true...within the first two days of my Reader purchase, I emailed customer service twice about multiple book prices that were obviously way too high. Each time, the reponse I got from them was that they don't set the prices, the publishers do.

When I would then quiz them as to why the publisher would "force" Sony to sell a book at almost twice the price that the "publisher" would allow Amazon, Barnes&Noble, or some other site to sell it at, they had no answer.

So when I started relaying those experiences here, the thread hit a nerve with others, and the idea for this ongoing list was put into place, in hopes that enough folks with enough different titles showing this issue would (when Bob forwarded it to someone at Sony) prompt them to take another look at their whole pricing scheme, as something is clearly wrong.

Now, if you actually have some contact at Sony yourself whom you think actually DOES go change prices as soon as you point them out, then perhaps you can go back through all posts in this thread and send the list of titles folks have mentioned to your contact. If they can actually change the prices for you, that would be great! But it certainly didn't work when I tried contacting them...

10/31/06 - Once again, I do not purchase Anansi Boys from connect as it is still $15.96 and nearly twice that of the closest competitors and paperback vendors.

Sigh; I'm soon going to finish my current ebook and be ready to purchase my next and well, Sony isn't going to get my money at the current rate. Further, they are going to force me to speak bad things about a good device due to lack of content at prices that match their competitors.

Support doesn't work.. perhaps moaning here will work again... doubt it.

-jbl

Sony changed the prices for a number of Lisa Scottoline novels back when I first mentioned it, and now they've all returned to the $15.96 mark.

Not only are these titles long in paperback, but ebooks.com and fictionwise.com sell the electronic versions for about $7.99.

When I was talking to their support about an old edition of a book which they were selling at hardcover prices, they sent me this bit of canned text:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Sony Connect!


Unfortunately we when we recieve the rights to sell the books on our site. The price is usually set at what we are allowed to sell those books at that price specifically. If the information I have provided does not completely answer your question, please update this incident so I may be of further assistance to you.

The English looks a bit iffy to be a template response...

BuddyBoy, you sure you e-mailed the right folks? Seems like Sony outsourced their Connect store personell, which is weird considering that the Reader and the e-books are only offered to US customers.

The Connect Store is run by a different Division, SonyStyle, I think. The more I think about it, the more I think that da_jane is most likely correct that their book distribution rights might not be worldwide. :shrug:

The Connect Store is run by a different Division, SonyStyle, I think. The more I think about it, the more I think that da_jane is most likely correct that their book distribution rights might not be worldwide. :shrug:
They cannot be worldwide before they study and adhere to every code of law, in concordance with copyright. Laws differ in every country. That takes a lot of time.

BuddyBoy, you sure you e-mailed the right folks? Seems like Sony outsourced their Connect store personell, which is weird considering that the Reader and the e-books are only offered to US customers.Oh yes, they were the right folks. They ended up giving me a credit on my account when I said I was going over their head to "head office."

The store just needs work...

I saw "Quicksilver" by Neal Stephenson... it listed on the Neal Stephenson page at $15.96. I clicked the title to get details... and it said it was $5.59. I added it to my cart, and it went back up to $15.96. I checked Amazon, and you can get the paperback for $10.85.

It's bad enough their prices are just not great, but when the price of an item varies that much depending on where you look at it... they really need to get it together or I'll just stop looking.

I checked out the three books of the Briar King trilogy by Gregory Keyes, it shows how strange the pricing is. The first book, the Briar King, is $3.99 on Connect, which is obviously fine, even cheaper than the alternatives. The second book, The Charnel Prince, is $14.36 which is way too expensive, Mobipocket has it for $6.99, it's $7.99 for Amazon paperback. The third book the Blood Knight is $14.36 but it just came out a few months ago, and is again a little cheaper than the competition. But that second book is definitely out of whack.

1 Fatal Flaw
2 Lashner, William
3 $15.96(Sony)
4 $6.75(Palm)
5 Paperback = Yes

1 Past due
2 Lashner, William
3 $15.96(Sony)
4 $7.19(Palm)
5 Paperback = Yes

1 Falls the Shadow
2 Lashner, William
3 $15.96(Sony)
4 $7.19(Palm)
5 Paperback = Yes

I emailed customer service about these titles last week (Thursday, Nov. 9), so I thought I'd take a crack at posting them here.

1. Thud!
2. Terry Pratchett
3. Connect $15.96
4. Amazon $7.99
5. Mass Market Paperback

Anansi Boys is still $15.96.

"The Tao of Warren Buffet"
Amazon Hard Cover $13.56
Sony Connect $13.59.

From a Sony Response Subject
Pricing Problem on "Tao of Warren Buffett"
Discussion Thread

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Sony Connect!

We sincerely appreciate all the time and effort that you have taken to explore our Connect service and to share your opinions with us. It is very important that we receive this feedback from our users so that we may better serve all our customers.

If the information I have provided does not completely answer your question, please update this incident so I may be of further assistance to you.

Sincerely,

Customer Support Representative
Sony Connect

What action will they take? It seems none beyond sending a standard form letter.

Here's one more out of whack price on a book that I would like to buy, but not at that price...

Failure Is Not an Option
Gene Kranz

Amazon Paperback Price = $10.20
(Amazon Paperback List Price = $15)

Connect Store Price = $13.59
Connect Paper Book List Price = $28.95

eBook ISBN: 0743214471

Ann Rule, Dead by Sunset
Connect: $18.40
Amazon: $7.99

Poison Study
Maria V. Snyder

Connect: $14.36

Amazon: $14.16 Hardcover
Amazon: $6.99 Mass Market Paperback

ereader.com: $6.30

Unfortunately this thread has no impact on Sony as best I can tell and serves only as a place for shared misery in sony connect pricing.

Anansi boys is -still- $15.96. I bought/read a paperback version of it over a month ago instead of purchasing through the connect store. :/

-jbl

Unfortunately this thread has no impact on Sony as best I can tell and serves only as a place for shared misery in sony connect pricing.While it originally was clearly being acted on by Sony, they don't seem to be following-up on it anymore. At least not frequently. My last posted price didn't see any effect either. But that's pretty amazing that they were paying that much attention to what customers have to say in the first place, so we have to give them credit for acting at all.

On the other hand, the pricing can be really frustrating. Even small amounts (what's a few dollars on a book when you are paying $350 for the hardware in the first place) can really affect how we feel about buying at the store versus finding alternate content at PG or Baen or elsewhere.

But we're fortunate to have both options for the Reader. Buy new popular books at sometimes overpriced amounts, or find other good books elsewhere. And except for the crazy exceptions, the Connect prices to compare favorably to most other online e-book stores, so it's generally a good alternative.

I bought 4 pBooks at a local store yesterday. All paperback of course. I already have a card that gives me 10% discount. I also had a $5 coupon. The total was about $42 before taxes and I paid $35 with taxes. I wonder if I already get all these discounts and paperback is a small light format already, then the pBook deal is at least as good as eBook deal and Reader advantages kind of melt away.

3 of the books I picked without prior info, by browsing shelves. Of course I like browsing shelves in a store. I don't think it would be as much fun to browse on-line. I wish I had Internet access to check ratings on books, but that is minor.

I guess the Reader/Connect store combo just isn't very compeling. I will certainly buy it after they fix the initial problems, but probably not for literature which is generally cheap in pBook format.

We will simply have to wait for publishers to clue in how much money they are wasting on pBook production as opposed to eBooks. Looks like they'll need a lot of time to create a proper eBook business model that works for them. In the meantime we'll stick to pBooks.

Bob Ninja saying, Reader advantages kind of melt away.

I'm not sure price is the advantage that is most important.

Being able to carry a library in my purse is why I bought the Reader --- it's in San Diego getting fixed now, which isn't good, but that's part of being an Early Adopter, I guess.

Another is getting books not readily available --- I've been following some older detective stories and just printed out an Encarta entry my husband sent me with a lot of titles and authors from the last two centuries. I can get these on public domain sites or CDs for the Reader, but probably not so easily, nor cheaply, in printed book form.

Also, I have hopes for the future: you know that dream of publishers printing to order? You order a book, they print it and mail it? Well, that never made much sense as technology is today ---------------- but they sure could send books electronically! So these arcane philosophy of Time texts I'm suddenly interested in -- I could get them for less than the $60 they are gouging students now, for the small print runs they do for philosophy majors.

I envision all books being available digitally, more cheaply, including rare ones. I think we have to wait a few years before this technology realizes its potential.

40 US cents more expensive than the paper version ?!?!?!

Transcendent, Stephen Baxter.
$14.36 at Sony, $7 (paperback) amazon

I wrote to Sony about a book that was grossly mispriced (USD 23 on Amazon for a hardcover vs 28 at Sony) and this is the response I got:

Hello again,


eBook prices are controlled by the publisher. Some price may vary between some stores but overall this price is in line with the market value.

Sincerely,

Keith
Customer Support Representative
Sony Connect
http://www.connect.com

Which concept of market value does this pricing adhere to - none that I could recognise !! This just bugs the hell out of me - I cannot understand how Sony could develop such a great product and then lose it so completely on content and software.

So, the price was the same at both Amazon and the ConnStore? Just trying to make sure I understood you is all ....

Assuming that's so, it sounds like the publisher just isn't letting them offer a discount is all (obnoxious, yes, but less obnoxious that other stuff pubs do all the time http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/smiliesadd1/shrug.gif).

The fact is that, for good or ill, the pubs do have something to say about pricing: you pay their price or you don't get their product.

For instance, the e-book of Off Armageddon Reef (published by Tor) is $18 on Baen's Webscriptions site (http://www.webscriptions.net) when all the rest of the individual books are priced at $6 or less (I'm pretty sure, I haven't seen any others higher, anyway) -- that's the price Tor required Baen to sell it for, and I don't think there's the slightest question of Baen's integrity on that topic. :shrug:

[QUOTE=NatCh]So, the price was the same at both Amazon and the ConnStore? Just trying to make sure I understood you is all ....

Sorry - it was 28 at Connect vs 23 for a hardcover at Amazon- have changed above

The whole "price is set by the publisher" is a bunch of crap I think. If the publisher sets the prices then bookstores would all sell at the same prices. You think Amazon lets publishers control their prices? No, they buy copies at wholesale for price X and resell at price Y, all the publisher/wholesaler controls is price X. I can't believe it's not the same at Sony. You think Sony allows the publisher to control their profits? That the publisher walks into Sony and says I'll sell you a book for price X and you're only allowed to resell it for price Y? I can't see how that would work, Sony would agree to buy it for price X and resell it for whatever price they wanted. It's up to Sony to insure their profits, I can't see them handing that control over to a publisher.

I think the whole pricing thing especially where they try to charge hardback prices for books in paperback, simply goes back to technical competence. I don't think they have a way to easily, automatically update book prices. Looks at the UI for the store, look at the problems many of us have had with the books themselves from the store with graphics, prices different in the cart than displayed, scan problems, etc... I think the general level of competence that has been displayed in the client software and the store probably permeates through the backend systems as well. It will get you by, but it's by no means great with plenty of room for improvement. I don't think they are maliciously intentionally trying to overcharge $10+ for some books, I just don't think they know better or their systems aren't setup in such a way as to make it better. That's the only explanation I see.

So, the price was the same at both Amazon and the ConnStore? Just trying to make sure I understood you is all ....Sorry - it was 28 at Connect vs 23 for a hardcover at Amazon- have changed aboveAh, well that makes sense then! Yeah, totally obnoxious. :yes:

The whole "price is set by the publisher" is a bunch of crap I think.
<snip>
It's up to Sony to insure their profits, I can't see them handing that control over to a publisher.You're right, it is a bit ... oversimplified, at best, disingenuous, at worst. It's probably more accurate to say that the publisher controls what price they sell the product to Sony, and Sony adds some standard markup on top of it, both to cover whatever costs they have, and for their profit margin.

You're right that bookstore prices vary, but where they vary is actually on their own markup. They like to call it a discount, since the "real" price is there for the world to see on the cover that the publisher applied to the book, and they're charging you less than that, aren't they? :wink:

If I recall correctly (from 10 or 12 years ago), that printed-on cover price is a 40% markup from the wholesale price (somebody with more recent knowledge on the matter, please update me!), so when you 'save 10%' at Amazon, you're actually paying 90% of 140%, or 126% (a ~26% markup) of what Amazon paid the publisher for the book. They may, of course have volume discounts too, just to make things interesting. :shrug:

As for why the ConnStore can't seem to get/keep the prices straightened out, updated, etc., I totally agree with you there, L.G. -- I don't see any question but that the ConnStore is in serious need of a few folks who have ... a better idea of how to set up and run such things. :grin:

:blink: both by J Miller

Is it business books that seem to be more?

What do you think of the business book content on Connect?

AndiR

I was going to post about one of Connect's featured books, Manhunt, was $17, and I saw that Amazon had the paperback for $10 the other night. Just looked again tonight, it's $10.36 on Connect now. Must be the paperback version. :) I'm glad I hadn't decided yet, I'll buy it now.

* The Road
* Cormac Mcarthy
* Sony - $14.95
* Amazon - $8.97

The pricing structure of Connect will be the downfall of the Reader. The traditional pricing structure of hardcover/paperback fails in the ebook marketplace and needs to be addressed. With music you get a CD. With a movie you get DVD. You are not forced to buy the content in one format for 12 months at more than double the price it will be in a new format later on. There will have to be some ebook pricing that stays the same and is competitive. I'm a Robert Parker reader and enraged at how long it takes the Connect store to finally realize one of the novels has been released in paperback so they'll switch prices on the store. It has, for some of his books, taken a month or so. Way too long.

I'm surprised I haven't seen media reviews of the reader point this out this issue.

I'm surprised I haven't seen media reviews of the reader point this out this issue.It takes too much time to notice such an issue, vampmiller -- the media is too busy bashing the Reader for not being a PDA to notice anything like a real issue with the ConnStore.

Do I understand you to say that you saw a Robert Parker book's price drop (a month or two after ) when it went from hard to paper back? Has it stayed there?

That would actually be good news, because the ConnStore has had problems with prices popping back to their original hardback levels after changing (briefly) to the "paperback" ones. If they're sticking, that's an improvement, and if ConnStore is catching and lowering the prices on their own, even if they're slow about it, that's an improvement too, as it means they must have (or be in the process of) actually worked out a process to handle that.

ConnStore still has issues (and I don't mean comic books!), but they do seem to be making some improvements.


One thing you said I think may have been less than fully considered:With music you get a CD. With a movie you get DVD. You are not forced to buy the content in one format for 12 months at more than double the price it will be in a new format later on.That's completely true, of course, but that is precisely what happens with books -- I go in and buy the latest hardback for ~$25 and 12~16 months later, I see it in paperback for $7 -- almost 1/4th the price.

Others see it differently, but I don't mind paying a bit of a premium to get a book (even an e-book) earlier, I don't think that a factor of four is acceptable for an e-book, because the publishing cost isn't any different for them like it is with hard/paper backs. :shrug:

I think the pubs are needing a bit of time to work through these things, though, they've been doing things mostly the same way for over a hundred years, it's all too much for them to grasp at once -- especially when they're (most of them) doing their dead level best to not think it through. :sad:

They'll come around eventually, I think. The example of music industry's travails seems to be instructive to them. :wink:

Hey Natch,

yeah, once the paperback Parker is finally available, the price stabilizes. I've not seen this jumping price phenomenon but it would peeve me to be on the receiving end of it.

The problem with the whole hardcover/paperback/ebook pricing structure is not just with the publishers. When Apple created iTunes, they really took the reins and lead the music industry in how pricing needs to happen and I don't think Sony is doing this with ebooks. If Apple had their own reader and utilized their iTunes store, I can't help think that things would run more smoothly and better for the customer.

But I do love my reader. I am in Japan right now where English books aren't so easy to come by. I was stoked to be able to bring 150 novels with me in my carry-on and to download a few more while I'm here.

But the pricing issue's a stickler. Hey, Robert Parker, if you're reading this - when you're done with your next novel, email me an rtf version and I'll paypal you $10. Works better for both of us.

Here's a price difference in Connect's favor:

The Terror
Dan Simmons
Connect: $14.39
Amazon: $17.15 (with additional shipping cost)
No paperback in sight yet! Download now before someone realizes!

If you're looking for other sources, I can suggest Bean's Webscriptions (http://www.webscriptions.net) site. If you like the sort of thing they publish, then it's a treasure trove. They have a "Free Library" so you can try out a number of their offerings gratis -- the better to get you hooked, of course. :beam: I'm assuming you already know about Project Gutenberg, and their public domain offerings, but you may not know that ManyBooks.net (http://www.manybooks.net) offers a Sony Reader formatted version of most of the PG holdings, which is very nice.

And that doesn't mention the effort going on here at MR to do 'deluxe editions' of public domain stuff for the Reader.


I agree that it'd be a different ballgame if Steve Jobs were in it, but the music industry is markedly different from the pub industry -- most music has been in the consumers' hands digitally for years, which means they were already at the table. That's just not the case for books, so the pubs have to be convinced that they need to come to the table in the first place, as such a heavy handed approach would just not work -- something about flies and vinegar comes to mind, for some reason. :wink:

Anyway, the pubs still largely have physical control of what we'd like to have digitally, so they can exert more pressure on pricing than the music folks could, who lost that control a long time ago (before they realized they wanted it).

One example from Baen: most of their individual books (excepting advanced reader copies), are $6 or less, but one book they have available (Off Armageddon Reef) which is actually a Tor publishing book is $18 (hardback's $26.95, I think) -- clearly there is a limit to how much Baen could convince Tor to lower their price, or that book would also be ~$6. :shrug:

The book and music and video markets only compare to each other just so far, before the similarities evaporate. However, we've seen a lot more digital movement in the book industry in the last five years or so than in ... well, than in about a century. :wink:

Certainly that's a good thing, and something we want to encourage. :yes:

The other thing to keep in mind is that for many (most?) books, publishers only negotiate for first-publication rights for a single continent. That does not include movie rights, it does not include serialization rights, it does not include e-publication, it doesn't include anything other than the right to publish a dead-tree book version of the work. That's why hard-back and paper-back version of the same book are often put out by different publisers.

Early on, book agents learned how to split all the various potentials for a book so that they negotiate each aspect seperately (and earn their 10% for each negotiation). The music world, however, was ramrodded by the record labels who coerced their young and naive artists (many of whom didn't have any agent to assist in the negotiation of recording contracts) into signing over all their rights to the record label, so the record label didn't need any further negotiation to bring out digital versions of the recordings, and they control all publication rights for many classic rock and jazz and pop songs, so it's a lot easier for them to get to e-distribution.

One can only hope that if people such as the members of this list keep bombarding the publishers with e-mails (most publishers are at least technically savvy enough to have e-mails and web-sites and do their book production digitally these days so it shouldn't be too much longer before they open the floodgates of ebooks) to convince them that there is a legitimate marketplace out here so they will begin to include epublication rights in their negotiations.

So whenever a book you want to read on the Reader isn't available, send an e-mail to both the publisher and the author (if you can find an e-mail address for them -- often this can be gotten from the publisher's web-site) to show them that there is already a marketplace for epublication but that also we're willing to pay and that the marketplace is growing!

First, apologies to readers because this thread is diverging. Moderators, feel free to move the last few posts and slap my wrists.

dhbailey... I think that's a great idea to let publishers know we want ebooks. It must be hard for their to gauge interest when there are so few ereaders around. When I'm back from vacation and have time (contradiction in terms unless you've been on vacation) I'll hunt around for a list of addresses for people to send their requests to.

At this point, I ONLY buy deadwood books is the ebook is unavailable. I love the size and ease of my reader, and the fact that it sits open so easily on the table leaving both hands free for lunch. I really hope this technology takes off. I can't wait to see the next iteration.

Roma By Steven Saylor Three Dollars more and its a "featured product"!

:-( AndiR

The fact is that, for good or ill, the pubs do have something to say about pricing: you pay their price or you don't get their product.The problem is that publishers are motivated by ratings. As long as ebook sales don't contribute to ratings publishers are not going to be keen to make sales that way for mainstream titles, where they are effectively losing a possible paper sale for every ebook sale made.

W.E.B. Griffen - The Hunters - Sony Connect - $21.56
W.E.B. Griffen - The Hunters - Amazon US - $17.79

This is more one they got right, but it's newsworthy for the title (and the implications).

Off Armageddon Reef Connect store: $12.80 (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/052/973/400000000000000052973.html) -- not a bad price, except that Amazon has the hardback on sale for $5.19 (http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0765315009/ref=s9_asin_image_1/103-5892873-7904629?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0QE0NJ0W8KK8QATKQH4Z&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=288448401&pf_rd_i=507846) for some unexplained reason. It may even be a glitch. :shrug:

The reason I find it interesting is that TOR is letting them sell it for $12.80, when Baen's Webscriptions (http://webscriptions.net/p-601-off-armageddon-reef.aspx) has it for $18.00 -- this from a publisher that's been somewhat leery of e-books at all. it also suggests that TOR feels that the DRM warrants something of a price drop ... though not very much of one. :smartass2

Ysabel by Guy Gavriel Kay

Amazon - Price: $13.51 (Hardcover) (http://www.amazon.com/Ysabel-Guy-Gavriel-Kay/dp/0451461290/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-9685864-9299268?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185475208&sr=8-2)

Connect - $19.96??? (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/054/084/400000000000000054084.html)

Connect - $21.56
Amazon - $10.88

The readers dillema :)

Folks, as well as posting here, please give Sony a call to let them know of these silly prices so that can hopefully fix them.

You can contact the eBook Customer Support Team via email or by phone at 877-CNECTME (877-263-2863).

A number of issues I would like to respectfully adress:

_____________________________

After approx. 7 months, it appears that Connect has not only lowered the price of Neal Stephenson's trilogy (The Baroque Cycle), but has also - FINALLY! - corrected the mispricing from one link to another link.

______________________________

I spent approx. 1/2 of my life (I'm 56) working at bookstores and also as a buyer for (at that time), the largest independent bookstore in Arkansas.

I could construct a very lengthy letter here - but I will not - stating all I know about how discounts, shipping, profit-margins, remainders, membership discounts, stripped returns, net pricing, returns, database managment of inventory, loss leaders, supplemental stock and other avenues of profitabilitiy [audio books, cafes, greeting cards, games, etc.], and how a class-action suit brought by independents years ago has impacted upon the book trade.

Some of the arguments posted on this thread (I'm talking logic and knowledge here) are simply erronenous.

I want to also make it very clear that I have been OUT of the book trade since 1989. Full disclosure.

I also want to make it clear that I know NOTHING about contractual content vis-a-vis ebook publishing/marketing.

There is a further confusion here as well, regarding book format: Hardback; mass market paperback; and trade paperback.

I just want to point out - with my contribution toward some further understanding the complexity of these issues - that I am a book lover with some marketing/selling knowledge, and that I am ALSO AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A HUGE AMOUNT OF IGNORANCE.

I'm not manufacturing any knowledge here; rather, I want to let everyone know about my strengths AND weaknesses.

Anecedotal information: Even when we were selling law books for the UALR School of Law, and purchasing said books from West at net pricing, and paying approx. 17% in shipping costs to get the cartons of casebooks, hornbooks, legal aids, etc. here, we had to price them accordingly in order to realize a profit and to also deal with overhead, salaries, damaged returns (time) --; even dealing with all these issues, there were still complaints about why were we charging such high prices for these textbooks.

It's like trying to explain to someone that if you are a member of this bookstore and you get 10% from a book that is already 10% off, the total wasn't actually 20%. Rather, when you take 10% from something and then take 10% again from that same something, you actually end up with 19% discount. [Try it with a $1.00 and see what you get.]

With all due respect to the syllogistic argruments circulating here, but there are contributing factors at present that add to a very complex issue.

Don

First of all, this thread should be a sticky, it took me a bit to find it again.

The book is Accelerando, by Charles Stross. It's 6.39$ at the Connect store and, get this, free here (http://www.accelerando.org/), care of Mr Stross himself. Which I found out only after buying the book from Connect.

He also put up a number of other novels and short stories online, but none of them are on Connect. Yet.

So, this is what a money-printing operation looks like.

Fuzzy, it's not only Connect where you can find e-books offered for free elsewhere. Accelerando, for instance, is offered for $7.99 @ eBooks.com (http://www.ebooks.com/ebooks/book_display.asp?IID=260147). Not cool, I know, but this is how things are right now.

* Title - The World Without Us
* Author - Alan Weisman
* Connect (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/054/048/400000000000000054048.html) - $19.96
* Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-1789582-6927944?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+world+without+us&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go) - $14.97 B&N (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780312347291&itm=1) - $17.46
* Format - Hard Cover

I emailed Sony on this and got the following response:

Hello,

Thanks for writing Sony Connect!

When publishers determine the pricing for print books (their “List Price”), they determine a separate List Price for the eBook version which is usually less expensive than the print counterpart (sometimes 40% less). CONNECT then provides an additional 20% discount to the customer. Some publishers have decided to keep their eBook prices the same as print book prices, other book retailers may discount that print title more than 20%, which would result in a deeper discount. We continue to work with these publishers to urge them to discount their eBook List Prices to provide you with the best eBook experience possible.

Separately, please keep in mind that with eBooks, there are no shipping fees or sales tax, and you get the benefit of instant gratification.

Sincerely,
Erica H
Sony Connect

* Title - The World Without Us
* Author - Alan Weisman
* Connect (http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/054/048/400000000000000054048.html) - $19.96
* Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-1789582-6927944?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+world+without+us&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go) - $14.97 B&N (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780312347291&itm=1) - $17.46
* Format - Hard Cover
MobiPocket has the same book for $24.95. And I cannot find it in LIT format at any of the shops I've looked at.

* Title: The Virtu
* Author: Sarah Monette
* Sony Connect price: $19.96
* Amazon, Borders Bookstores, Barnes & Noble: $7.99
* Available in mass market paperback

I've already emailed them and was told they would contact the publisher and email me with an update. Then then emailed me again a couple of days later to tell me that since I didn't contact them again, they considered the problem solved. I emailed them back to correct that notion.

Still no change in the price. :-(

ETA: I just took a look at the publisher's website and lo and behold, the problem: they have the paperback at 7.99 and the hardcover and ebook at 24.95. I guess I'll be reading the public library copy and waiting until I can pick up a used p-back copy.

Good news for me and other fans of Sarah Monette. The Connect price is now 7.99, same as the p-back, so I bought it today. Don't want to miss out on the chance, in case it reverts in the future. I don't know if it was my email or my post here that made the difference, but either way thanks to all here. If not for this thread, I wouldn't have contacted anyone at all. :-)

Joseph Finder's [i]Paranoia/i] is priced at $15.16 when the paper edition is MMPB and a LOT less.

http://ebooks.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/035/896/400000000000000035896.html