It seems that my wishlist on fictionwise is suddenly half as small as it used to be. Upon investigation, it looks some books are no longer on sale, e.g. all books by Scott Westerfeld some of which were on my wishlist?

One book from him I bought is still displayed on my bookshelf but when I try to download it I get the following error: Error : Download is not authorized for this retailer.

Anybody knows what happened, and how many books are affected? Is it retailing to this 'agency model pricing' I've been hearing about?

EDIT: And of course this happens the very day I want to buy the last tome of a a fantasy trilogy I'm really enjoying! How frustrating! :(

EDIT again: Never mind me, I found the relevant thread on the general forum. Mods feel free to remove this post, sorry about the disturbance.

Whoa. I just reported something similar at eReader.com.
See Disappearing books at eReader.com Under the General forum.

:chinscratch:

Not only have titles been cut back, the formats available for certain titles have also be reduced.

Expect this at all ebook retailers. Until the publisher's new Agency Model pricing structure can be implemented, your wishlists and the selection available will both suffer disappearances.

It appears that the cause of the disapearing titles is thta Hatchette have pulled all their tirles from on-line retailers. The following appears on Books on Board whe n you click the link as to wehy a title is not available for download. This is not the first time that Hatchette have done this. A couple of years ago when the furoreor geo restrictions cpmmencede, Hatchette also pulled their books.

We are sorry that your ebook download is temporarily unavailable.

Hachette (the Publisher) has pulled all of its titles, as well as its imprints, from US distribution. The Hachette imprints included in this process are:

•Hachette Audio
•Hachette Book Group
•Grand Central Publishing
•Little, Brown
•Little, Brown Adult Books
•Little, Brown and Company
•Little, Brown and Company (UK)
•Little, Brown Books for Young Readers
•FaithWords
•WindBlown Media
•Orbit
•Yen Press
•Center Street
This issue is affecting all eBook retailers and not just BooksOnBoard. We are working with our distributors to resolve this issue as soon as possible. In the meantime, please help us out by writing the publisher directly at: customer.service@hbgusa.com.

Thank you,

Your BooksOnBoard Support Team

If FictionWise knew this was coming, why didn't they send an email to members informing them that prices were about to be raised? They have no problem sending out email about sales.

If FictionWise knew this was coming, why didn't they send an email to members informing them that prices were about to be raised? They have no problem sending out email about sales.

While Fictionwise probably could have handled this better, it's worth pointing out that BooksOnBoard did send out such an email and have been condemned for scaremongering in order to drive sales ahead of the change.

The fact is that the price increases will not be across the board, and the new model could also see some prices fall. It's all very confusing as it's been driven through by these five publishers at very short notice, probably in order to get the new pricing in place by the time the iPad launches.

Until the dust settles it's not at all clear what the outcome will be, and how the prices will really be affected.

It's also the imposition of sales tax on eBook sales in some states according to this new model that's going to have a significant effect on some stores and catalogues.

Graham

While Fictionwise probably could have handled this better, it's worth pointing out that BooksOnBoard did send out such an email and have been condemned for scaremongering in order to drive sales ahead of the change.

The fact is that the price increases will not be across the board, and the new model could also see some prices fall. It's all very confusing as it's been driven through by these five publishers at very short notice, probably in order to get the new pricing in place by the time the iPad launches.

Until the dust settles it's not at all clear what the outcome will be, and how the prices will really be affected.

It's also the imposition of sales tax on eBook sales in some states according to this new model that's going to have a significant effect on some stores and catalogues.

Graham

I think that Fictionwise could have alerted customers to ensure that the had the opportunity to download titles if they needed to do so. However the fact that Books on Board did not, indicates that the publisher pulled the books without notice. Either way, customers have likely been disadvantaged by this move from Hatchette. Thankfully all of my books are downloaded and liberated so are still avaialble to me, but I am sure that is not the case for all of Hatchette's customers.

Is the Sales Tax going to applied to all sales or only for states where the publisher has a physical presence?

For the states where the publishers have a "significant" presence.

For the states where the publishers have a "significant" presence.
So... New York? :p

So... New York? :p

I'm pretty sure that would be a big yes, since they tax businesses that don't even have a presence in NY, i.e. Amazon. I lived the first half of my life there, but am glad to be living elsewhere now, where the tax burden isn't so onerous. And the winters don't suck as much either...

-Marcy

Yep, a lot of titles gone today. From what I could tell my Buywise membership has expired, but I had $100+ in micropay. So I spent $60 of it today, but only because those titles were still on my wishlist. I'll see if the other titles pop up tomorrow...after that I'm on to other vendors.

My prediction that my wishlist would get cheaper was true. However, it also got SMALLER with an increased average book price....

Before: $356 / 41 books

Now: $109.29 / 12 books

An announcement, note on home page, smoke signal, anything would have been appreciated. At least BoB and Kobo told their customers. I'll check again in the morning. If they are gone forever, FW has done a terrible disservice to their customers.

I had about 40 books in my wishlist, today there were 5...

I'm done with Fictionwise. Three of those 5 books were restricted to me, the other two were multiformat. I put those in my cart and bought them with my remaining micropay.

It's sayonara Fictionwise. After 7 years of faithful buying, I've decided to leave. I hope B&N have a lot of fun in the future, I think they are ruining FW so they can close it down in favour of their own store.

If the publishers are going to dictate the prices entirely, then there is nothing to distinguish any of the existing ebook stores. I can't see them all surviving.

If the publishers are going to dictate the prices entirely, then there is nothing to distinguish any of the existing ebook stores.

I really can't agree with your premise. B&N, for example, will only sell to you if you live in the USA or Canada; Waterstones will sell to you if you live in the UK. You don't think that's a distinguishing feature?

Err, no I don't think it is a meaningful distinguishing feature. Within a region (which is all that you can access without jiggery-pokery) all stores sell the same books at the same price. Before today you could at least watch Waterstones, W H Smith, Books on Board etc. and cherry pick special deals when they appeared.

If a store is artificially restricted to selling to a specific set of customers and at a fixed price, then what is its Unique Selling Point? I don't see one!

If a store is artificially restricted to selling to a specific set of customers and at a fixed price, then what is its Unique Selling Point? I don't see one!

Leaving aside that this is only 5 of the publishers at present, albeit major ones, the distinguishing features will be based around ease of use, feedback, and added value.

Things like:


Excellent filtering, easy and clear with advanced options available
Good navigation
Useful features on your own bookshelf and wish list
Reviews
Recommendations
Discussion boards
Book news
Author interviews, interactive
Elements of social networking, such as book clubs
Disability support

Graham

Leaving aside that this is only 5 of the publishers at present, albeit major ones, the distinguishing features will be based around ease of use, feedback, and added value.

Things like:


Excellent filtering, easy and clear with advanced options available
Good navigation
Useful features on your own bookshelf and wish list
Reviews
Recommendations
Discussion boards
Book news
Author interviews, interactive
Elements of social networking, such as book clubs
Disability support

Graham


I really liked FW, but the current selection available to me doesn't make it worth the trouble anymore. Having said that, I might buy some things there still, and a huge part of my collection (actually, all but two books...) is in my FW bookshelf...

Sigh - I had a wishlist of 5 or 6 pages, now it's down to one page with 21 titles. I really really hope they will show up again, since I have no backup listing of my wishlist, I've been using it adding books I think look interesting when I run across them somewhere. Now I will probably never find those books again. :(

I lived the first half of my life there, but am glad to be living elsewhere now, where the tax burden isn't so onerous. And the winters don't suck as much either...

-Marcy

Amen Sister!

I really liked FW, but the current selection available to me doesn't make it worth the trouble anymore. Having said that, I might buy some things there still, and a huge part of my collection (actually, all but two books...) is in my FW bookshelf...

Agreed, I'm the same, I was very fond of FW. I still use them for magazine subscriptions, but have been forced to the UK sites for most other books. It would be great if they opened stores in other geographic regions, but I suspect this isn't ever going to happen now.

Graham

If a store is artificially restricted to selling to a specific set of customers and at a fixed price, then what is its Unique Selling Point? I don't see one!

We are becoming customers of the publisher more than the stores. You'll buy a book because it's one you want to read.

Lee

I went into my Fictionwise bookshelf last night and although all the books are still listed, I couldn't download 106 fairly new ones that were in secure formats. Most of the Agatha Christie titles from the sale a few weeks back and really pretty much everything I've bought in the last several weeks that was not multiformat. I know I should have downloaded them at once but I just didn't get around to it, most were the result of great sales like the Agatha Christie's or 100% rebates and I wasn't planning on reading right away, I just bought because the price was good at the time. I was also hoping that some of the titles in mobipocket would become available in epub in the meantime and I could have them switch formats for me. They've done that before for books not already downloaded. I sent a message to Fictionwise support but they really could have given people some notice before removing all these books from their inventory.

although all the books are still listed, I couldn't download 106 fairly new ones that were in secure formats.

Ouch! Hopefully they'll come back at some point. Luckily I've downloaded all my Agatha Christie books.

If they don't come back - another point against DRM. How can I switch them to a different device if I can't re-download them?

If they don't come back - another point against DRM. How can I switch them to a different device if I can't re-download them?
Depends on the format. Only Mobipocket is device-specific; eReader, MS Reader, and ePub are all account-specific instead (so as long as you still have the name/credit card for eReader, or can authorize the device for MS Reader/ePub, you can still use the old files).

If a store is artificially restricted to selling to a specific set of customers and at a fixed price, then what is its Unique Selling Point? I don't see one!

Potentially:
Good search ability
User reviews/ratings
Interaction with other users
Different payment options (Paypal, direct credit card, money order, others)
Mobile site layout option
Additional book-related features--a blog, news clips, pro reviews
Easy-to-use site--skins, accessibility, no blinky ads

And so on. Sites that considered those 5 publishers a major part of their offerings will have to find ways to draw in customers that aren't based on prices of book. And brick-and-mortar stores manage this; people don't shop at 7-11 because the prices are good. Ebook stores will need to drastically re-think their sales approach.

Fictionwise has the multiformat collection
Kobo has more Canadian books, some not available elsewhere
Amazon has the best interface and most robust reviews and social networking
Not sure what sets Sony apart

My wishlist at BooksOnBoard shrunk from 77 books down to 42 books. I emailed BoB and just got an answer:

As I understand it from our developers, they have coded such that these books remain on your wishlist but are now hidden to prevent attempted purchase while links are down. When the REP feeds are restored these titles will again be visible in your wishlist.

I assume other retailers like FW do the same thing.

Not sure what sets Sony apart
Like Kobo, they're 100% ePub.

My wishlist at BooksOnBoard shrunk from 77 books down to 42 books. I emailed BoB and just got an answer:

I assume other retailers like FW do the same thing.

I just checked my BoB wishlist and there were most of my books still in the wishlist but the ones that are being affected by all this nonsense are greyed out with a check back later message concerning the agency pricing. Good to know!

I just got another email from BoB updating my query about the disappearing books:

As an update, we amended our wishlist display to display those items that are still in our catalog, but not available for purchase. Those being the books from the 5 agency publishers. We did have to start off by hiding the titles completely, but are working on integrating them back in so that customers can see their titles still in the wishlist, but simply unavailable for purchase at this time. Due to differences with our distributors rolling out these changes, not all ebooks are able to be preserved, but we hope that the vast majority of titles in wishlists remain intact!

I must say they have great service keeping me up to date! My wishlist now has 64 books on it. The only thing we can do is wait and see how it all plays out. I mostly have older books on my wishlist and suspect and hope those aren't (too much) affected.

I went into my Fictionwise bookshelf last night and although all the books are still listed, I couldn't download 106 fairly new ones that were in secure formats. Most of the Agatha Christie titles from the sale a few weeks back and really pretty much everything I've bought in the last several weeks that was not multiformat. I know I should have downloaded them at once but I just didn't get around to it, most were the result of great sales like the Agatha Christie's or 100% rebates and I wasn't planning on reading right away, I just bought because the price was good at the time. I was also hoping that some of the titles in mobipocket would become available in epub in the meantime and I could have them switch formats for me. They've done that before for books not already downloaded. I sent a message to Fictionwise support but they really could have given people some notice before removing all these books from their inventory.

I am able to download my secure books even though most are not available for sale at the moment.

I am able to download my secure books even though most are not available for sale at the moment.

It may only be Mobipocket books that are affected then. I just tried redownlloading a couple of the Agatha Christie books. I could re-download the .acsm file for the ePub, but not the Mobipocket file.

That was because of an error originating at the Mobipocket.com web site:

Error

Description : Error : Download is not authorized for this retailer.
Source : download.asp
Number : -1

It may only be Mobipocket books that are affected then. I just tried redownlloading a couple of the Agatha Christie books. I could re-download the .acsm file for the ePub, but not the Mobipocket file.

That was because of an error originating at the Mobipocket.com web site:

Error

Description : Error : Download is not authorized for this retailer.
Source : download.asp
Number : -1

For the ePub and MS Reader books affected, I now get the following...

The requested eBook title cannot be downloaded at this time due to difficulty in communicating with the retail site. Please try again later.

I was able to download the Mobipocket version of one of the J. D. Robb titles I picked up a couple of weeks ago.

I just tried with several books in both MS Reader and Mobipocket and I'm getting the messages above. I couldn't try the epub books since I'm at work. I hope they get this resolved soon. Even if they no longer sell the book they should honor prior purchases.

Even if they no longer sell the book they should honor prior purchases.
It's not up to Fictionwise, most likely; in the past, they've been more than happy to fulfill prior purchases. I suspect the problem is past them, and at the distributor's doorstep.

From my Fictionwise bookshelf of purchased titles, I can see the following by publishers currently listed as no longer on sale:

Penguin: Can still download.
Hachette: Can still download.

MacMillan: Cannot download.
Harper Collins: Cannot download.
Oxford University Press: Cannot download.

Graham

One of my previous ebooks from Random House is no longer downloadable--Bold Type: Conversations 1997-2001 (http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/b4879/Bold-Type/Editors-of-Bold-Type/?).

Origins of Wish You Well (http://www.fictionwise.com/ebooks/b4085/Origins-of-Wish-You-Well/David-Baldacci/?) (Hatchette) is also un-downloadable.

However, several other Random House books are still downloadable. I believe both the above were the "free sample" ebooks to test that you could get the DRM to work on your computer/device, and apparently they're no longer available.

My FW wishlist went from around 110 or so to 40. That might be a good thing as I will save money that way. :)

I checked my nook wishlist tonight and removed a few books that had price increases (most of which I wasn't that interested in anyway). One actually went down from about $17.40 or so to just over $10.00. One insane price increase -- Dennis McDougal's "Angel of Darkness: The True Story of Randy Kraft and the Most Heinous Murder Spree" (a true crime book) went from under eight dollars to $19.99. This was a mass market paperback in 1982. I guess they think this price increase is OK because the paperback is out of print now. Riiight, like I can't find it on eBay. :p

Of course, I've had no problems with my Baen wish list. ;)

I cannot download any of the books that are no longer for sale. So until they are back for sale, most of my bookshelf is undownloadable.

Last week I pre-ordered the new Kim Harrison book when they had a 100% micropay rebate. It's no longer listed in my bookshelf. It's supposed to be available April 6. We'll see...

Other than that, all my books have been downloaded and backed up, thank goodness. And I took advantage of the great deals they'd had in the last few months, so I have way too much to read already. I think I'll sit back and wait to see how this works out.

Wow, I forgot all of this was coming. Thankfully I spent most of my micropay (maybe have 3 bucks left on it) and downloaded all of my library and set it up in Calibre last month. My Wishlist went from 17 books to 3 and only one of those is a Random House book.

I cannot download any of the books that are no longer for sale. So until they are back for sale, most of my bookshelf is undownloadable.

Hmm...I just checked a few random books in my bookshelf that are no longer for sale on FW, both secure eReader and secure Mobi, and they all downloaded fine.

What is your "wishlist"? Just a list of books you were intending to purchase?

What is your "wishlist"? Just a list of books you were intending to purchase?
Exactly.

Thanks!

I definitely, then, don't get the big fuss - stores start and stop selling merchandise all the time. Sometimes it's there choice, other times its a supplier's decision. It happens. Just like prices going up and down is sometimes out of their control.

The "price-fixing" that is occurring (just like gas-stations in my opinion) is more worthy of stress and attention.

Last week I pre-ordered the new Kim Harrison book when they had a 100% micropay rebate. It's no longer listed in my bookshelf. It's supposed to be available April 6. We'll see...

I just received the following e-mail from Fictionwise about my pre-order for the new Kim Harrison book:

Hello,

Unfortunately, we have had to take one or more of your pre-ordered eBooks
off sale. We will not be able to provide you with a working copy when
released by the publisher. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I have refunded this purchase for a store credit on your Fictionwise.com
(or eReader.com) account. If you purchased with a credit card, and you
would prefer a refund on your credit card instead, please submit a support
ticket or send an email to support@fictionwise.com .

Due to industry changes, our content suppliers are currently unable to
offer certain titles from several large publishers. We are working with
our content partners to resolve this.

Best Regards,

Rodney
Fictionwise/eReader Support Team

They knew this was coming. So offering 100% rebate on titles from these 5 publishers with a release date after April 1 was totally wrong.

They knew this was coming. So offering 100% rebate on titles from these 5 publishers with a release date after April 1 was totally wrong.
Of course, you're assuming that the publishers were negotiating in good faith with Fictionwise. That's not something I'm willing to assume at this point.

Unfortunately, we have had to take one or more of your pre-ordered eBooks off sale. We will not be able to provide you with a working copy when released by the publisher.

This is actually fascinating. It strongly suggests that Fictionwise are going to boycott any of the agency publishers who refuse to allow a club discount. This would allow them to honour their Buywise Club commitment of a 15% discount on any book purchased.

Expect a link to Barnes & Noble for books from those 5 publishers...

Graham

I'm not sure it's an out-and-out boycott.

I've been wondering if B&N is slowly cutting back the number of books from mainstream publishers on the Fictionwise site. There have been a number of books I've been waiting for that have been available for months on B&N.com, but not at Fictionwise.

I fear that - if B&N.com allows Fictionwise to continue for any long-term period - it will be eventually only for the indi publishers (multiformat books).

I got the same e-mail that Geertm got! It made me mad. This AM, I checked back and there are NO Kim Harrison books returned from a search. Another favorite author, Lili Saintcrow used to have 16 books listed and now only the multiformat books are listed. I stocked up on Micropay $ in December and in Feb. stocked up. Good thing I did!

Thanks!

I definitely, then, don't get the big fuss - stores start and stop selling merchandise all the time. Sometimes it's there choice, other times its a supplier's decision. It happens. Just like prices going up and down is sometimes out of their control.

The "price-fixing" that is occurring (just like gas-stations in my opinion) is more worthy of stress and attention.


I am bummed that I lost alot of my wishlist, I had books on there that I was planning on buying or was interested in and at 4 pages long I know I am not going to remember them all, I would also put books that were going to be released later on my wish list.

Why am I annoyed about the loss of my wishlist? Well if I had known it was going away I actually would have made some last minute purchases of books that I planned to buy in the next month.

As for merchandise changing, they are online books. Digital copies, its not like they take up alot of physical space. Even if a book is not selling well they can leave it available without it taking away from space.

As for price fixing? I agree, but I think this is going to backfire on the publishers in the long run. Maybe 20% of the book buyers are the ones that support the company long term, people like me who read 200+ books a year.

They should look at what Harlequin has done I think that they have made the transition to ebooks in a very smart way.

Ah well hopefully most of this will get sorted out fast!

Amy

I am bummed that I lost alot of my wishlist, I had books on there that I was planning on buying or was interested in and at 4 pages long I know I am not going to remember them all, I would also put books that were going to be released later on my wish list.

Why am I annoyed about the loss of my wishlist? Well if I had known it was going away I actually would have made some last minute purchases of books that I planned to buy in the next month.
We don't yet know that the wish list won't return if Fictionwise does continue to have these books for sale once the changeover is complete.

As for merchandise changing, they are online books. Digital copies, its not like they take up alot of physical space. Even if a book is not selling well they can leave it available without it taking away from space.
Fictionwise doesn't store the books in these cases on its own servers. There are third party organisations that host the book servers. When the publishers switch off access, Fictionwise loses access.

Graham

I got the same e-mail that Geertm got! It made me mad. This AM, I checked back and there are NO Kim Harrison books returned from a search. Another favorite author, Lili Saintcrow used to have 16 books listed and now only the multiformat books are listed. I stocked up on Micropay $ in December and in Feb. stocked up. Good thing I did!

That's wonderful for you. However, in my case, I had pre-paid for the one ebook affected and it was to be released on April 6th. That one book was yanked from my bookshelf. It is just as likely that the publishers forced this removal in order to force it to be re-listed at a much higher price. (More than $8.82 that is.) In which case, I just got bait-and-switched! So anyone who claims no price-fixing on the part of the publishers, I say, WRONG! And they're perfectly happy to bait-and-switch as well!

Derek

In which case, I just got bait-and-switched!

It will only be bait-and-switch if the book gets re-listed. It's beginning to look as though Fictionwise aren't going to be getting these publishers back (see earlier in this thread) in which case they have simply, correctly, refunded your money.

Graham

I am bummed that I lost alot of my wishlist, I had books on there that I was planning on buying or was interested in and at 4 pages long I know I am not going to remember them all, I would also put books that were going to be released later on my wish list.

Why am I annoyed about the loss of my wishlist? Well if I had known it was going away I actually would have made some last minute purchases of books that I planned to buy in the next month.

As for merchandise changing, they are online books. Digital copies, its not like they take up alot of physical space. Even if a book is not selling well they can leave it available without it taking away from space.

As for price fixing? I agree, but I think this is going to backfire on the publishers in the long run. Maybe 20% of the book buyers are the ones that support the company long term, people like me who read 200+ books a year.

They should look at what Harlequin has done I think that they have made the transition to ebooks in a very smart way.

Ah well hopefully most of this will get sorted out fast!

Amy

Sorry! I was reading both this and the related "lawsuit" thread in two tabs. My response should have, really, gone in the other thread - about not getting the lawsuit.

I totally get the consumer frustration, lack of communication, etc. Just not suing over it. :D

I'll have to look into Harlequin (their business model anyway ;). I didn't know they'd done anything special as I've never looked for their books.

They knew this was coming. So offering 100% rebate on titles from these 5 publishers with a release date after April 1 was totally wrong.

I disagree. A refund is totally appropriate. Jon, the glass is never half full for you is it?

BOb

I hope they go back to normal. I was waiting for Lilith Saintcrow new books. Also Kim Harrison, as the new Rachel book is due any day now, in ebook format.

What else is missing ?

At least they did not take them away from our library. Best back it up.

I got the same e-mail that Geertm got! It made me mad. This AM, I checked back and there are NO Kim Harrison books returned from a search. Another favorite author, Lili Saintcrow used to have 16 books listed and now only the multiformat books are listed. I stocked up on Micropay $ in December and in Feb. stocked up. Good thing I did!

Wow !! "Black Magic Sanctions" is 20$ (audio only, can't see the ebook) at BoB and 13$ at Barnes & Nobles. Don't remember how much it was at FW.

I hope they go back to normal. I was waiting for Lilith Saintcrow new books. Also Kim Harrison, as the new Rachel book is due any day now, in ebook format.

Do you have access to the version at the Apple Store for the iphone? It has an unencrypted ePub (sort of) and audio version of book as an App. Just download it, find the file, rename it to B.M. Sanction 1.0.1.tar.gz and use your favorite zip program to extract it. Then browse to Payload\BlackMagicSanction.app\book\epub\, zip it, rename to epub (you may want to remove the audio files if you don't want to crash your ereader).

The books was great, and the audio book was OK as well.

I got the letter too. They didn't actually "refund" anything, because the Kim Harrison book was on 100% Micropay rebate when I bought it. Unfortunately I then went out and bought other books on Micropay, figuring that, counting the Harrison book, this would give me a reasonable per-book price. Now I have one less book, which boils down to having overpaid for the others due to a mistaken belief that Fictionwise would keep its word.

I suppose it could be worse... one more book should use up my remaining micropay, after which I'll shop elsewhere.

Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look.
I look forward to reading it, I really do like Rachel Morgan's books.

I'm sad, though, for FW, this will only cause them to lose customers. Trust is fundamental in this business, and this time people will look elsewhere before they look back to FW. I've been shopping with them for almost 9 years, I've been very happy until now.
Let's hope for the best, and soon.

Do you have access to the version at the Apple Store for the iphone? It has an unencrypted ePub (sort of) and audio version of book as an App. Just download it, find the file, rename it to B.M. Sanction 1.0.1.tar.gz and use your favorite zip program to extract it. Then browse to Payload\BlackMagicSanction.app\book\epub\, zip it, rename to epub (you may want to remove the audio files if you don't want to crash your ereader).

The books was great, and the audio book was OK as well.

Thanks for the tip, I'll have alook.

I'm sad, though, for FW, this will only cause them to lose customers. Trust is fundamental in this business, and this time people will look elsewhere before they look back to FW. I've been shopping with them for almost 9 years, I've been very happy until now.
Let's hope for the best, and soon.

Do you have access to the version at the Apple Store for the iphone? It has an unencrypted ePub (sort of) and audio version of book as an App. Just download it, find the file, rename it to B.M. Sanction 1.0.1.tar.gz and use your favorite zip program to extract it. Then browse to Payload\BlackMagicSanction.app\book\epub\, zip it, rename to epub (you may want to remove the audio files if you don't want to crash your ereader).

The books was great, and the audio book was OK as well.

I disagree. A refund is totally appropriate. Jon, the glass is never half full for you is it?

BOb

If you go for a refund now and get it, then find out things are ok, you'll never get your club membership back. I say wait a bit and see what happens before rushing in.

It will only be bait-and-switch if the book gets re-listed. It's beginning to look as though Fictionwise aren't going to be getting these publishers back (see earlier in this thread) in which case they have simply, correctly, refunded your money.

Graham

But the publishers *will* be re-listing, at a higher price, of course, through other retailers that have been whipped into submission. Thus, it is still bait-and-switch on the part of the publishers. Sorry, but this needs to be - forcefully - explained to these self-same publishers by long, very long, prison sentences for upper management. Three or four decades would be about right.

Derek

But those same publishers will be showing some prices that have gone down. So they'll be able to easily get away with this.

Fictionwise never returned my numerous emails to them about my content they were selling in violation of contract. It took about 9 months to get my product pulled and they still owe me a decent chunk of money. They went in the toilet when Barnes & Noble bought them.

Scott

Given the fact that FW is now selling identical titles such as the Grisham novels at twice the price of BN, I fear that BN is using the Agency Pricing model as the opportunity to destroy FW.

It's no great loss at this point. Things started to go downhill when B&N bought them out, and the agency pricing is just the final straw. They used to be my favourite store and now I shop mostly at Kobo.

After doing a disappearing act last week, my wish list now has all the Gregory Macdonald Fletch and Flynn books from Random House, and at the same price as before $12 less 35% rebate (I am not a Buywise club member). So I am happy.

Ngrant,

Compare the price on FW with the price on BN. For those titles on both sites the FW are all more expensive than BN. Why would you pay more?

Fictionwise is also more expensive than Kobo. But Kindle is cheaper than both, and Sony seems to be matching the Kindle prices. So clearly, it is not 'everyone uses the same price' as they said it would be.

For various reasons most of the books on my bookshelf are from Simon & Schuster...I can now download a grand total of 1 of them. My hard disk crashed about a month ago so I don't even have those books saved on my computer! So that's it? I just lost $100 work of books and I can't get them back?

Fictionwise is also more expensive than Kobo. But Kindle is cheaper than both, and Sony seems to be matching the Kindle prices. So clearly, it is not 'everyone uses the same price' as they said it would be.
Ignoring Kobo, since that seems to be a currency issue, what agency titles are at Fictionwise that are more expensive than at other retailers?

Fictionwise is also more expensive than Kobo. But Kindle is cheaper than both, and Sony seems to be matching the Kindle prices. So clearly, it is not 'everyone uses the same price' as they said it would be.

It's possible that only Apple and Amazon had the clout to insist on contracts that said "nobody can have lower prices than ours." Without that, the publishers are free to insist on higher prices at some stores than others.

I don't think that runs into any legal problems; with retail it wouldn't, but with an agency setup, it's entirely unclear if it runs into weird consumer-protection pricing laws. (I still think the "nobody sells it lower than us" phrasing needs to be run past lawyers who understand pricefixing legalities; it certainly seems like either publishers or retailers are trying to establish an industry-wide minimum price.)

Given the fact that FW is now selling identical titles such as the Grisham novels at twice the price of BN, I fear that BN is using the Agency Pricing model as the opportunity to destroy FW.

Grisham's novels are published by Random House which is not a part of this Agency model change. Please keep your FUD to yourself.

Ngrant,

Compare the price on FW with the price on BN. For those titles on both sites the FW are all more expensive than BN. Why would you pay more?

FW has a 35% Micropay rebate and 5% Secure ereader rebate, making the net price $7.20 for each book. BN.com net prices range from $8.91 to $9.99 as their discounts are less (20 - 25%). I know the FW rebates are a little awkward to manage and the benefit can only be achieved buying in small batches then applying the rebates to the next batch... but what the heck, I can spare a few extra minutes to do it.

For various reasons most of the books on my bookshelf are from Simon & Schuster...I can now download a grand total of 1 of them. My hard disk crashed about a month ago so I don't even have those books saved on my computer! So that's it? I just lost $100 work of books and I can't get them back?

I didn't download all my new purchases at the end of March, and now there are about half-a-dozen books I can't download at all. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that the books will eventually come back - even if they're at the higher prices, so I can download them.

It feels too soon to know how this will all fall out (even though my tendency is to think it will probably fall out badly!)

I didn't download all my new purchases at the end of March, and now there are about half-a-dozen books I can't download at all. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that the books will eventually come back - even if they're at the higher prices, so I can download them.

It feels too soon to know how this will all fall out (even though my tendency is to think it will probably fall out badly!)

Yeah but the way it's looking I'm going to just use of the credit I have, download all my books when I can, and quit Fictionwise.

I was looking to get Robert Conroy's "Red Inferno", it's $9.75 on B&N and $18.95! on Fictionwise. Doesn't even have a rebate. Thing is, I can't even download from B&N cause I don't know what format I would get the book in. (I still have a PRS-500 and I need to be able to...uh...convert the ebook and I only know how to do that with .pdb formatted books)

Thing is, I can't even download from B&N cause I don't know what format I would get the book in. If you download via a web browser you currently always get the eReader version. If I am wrong and you get the ePub, see Barnes & Noble DRM for EPUB circumvented (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66295). The point and click ignobleepub.pyw is definitely simpler to use that ereader2html.py. If you want to check it out, the Windows B&N app will usually download the ePub version if there is one. So currently you can usually get both formats (eReader via a browser, ePub via the Windows app).

I was looking to get Robert Conroy's "Red Inferno", it's $9.75 on B&N and $18.95! on Fictionwise.
There does seem to be something odd going on, as "Red Inferno" is a Random House title and thus shouldn't be affected by the agency pricing.

Graham

Yeah but the way it's looking I'm going to just use of the credit I have, download all my books when I can, and quit Fictionwise.

This. Of the three books Fictionwise has deigned to leave on my wish list, all of them are available at Kobo and Sony, cheaper.

Yeah but the way it's looking I'm going to just use of the credit I have, download all my books when I can, and quit Fictionwise.

Done that... I believe I have $1,50 in micropay left... I'll check it once in a while, to see if there are some nice multiformat books.

The thing is, its looking like my Sony reader and Cybook are about to become expensive pieces of junk (basically), I go looking for a book and FictionWise no longer sell it, Amazon probably has it but its restricted to US customers only, Waterstones and WHSmiths dont sell it at all, this is happening 9 times out of 10 for me, all that's really happening is that authors are going to loose a lot of money from me because the industry is putting these ridiculous restrictions on everything! Way to loose money...

Mark

Ignoring Kobo, since that seems to be a currency issue, what agency titles are at Fictionwise that are more expensive than at other retailers?I noticed last week that John Maddox Roberts' SPQR series was much cheaper ($9.99) and more titles were represented at B&N than at FW, which is weird considering B&N owns FW. They are published by St. Martin's Press. I don't know whether that's a subsidiary of an agency publisher, but when I went to recheck the FW price just now I found they've mysteriously disappeared. Still at B&N though - perhaps I'd better buy the remainig books quickly...

I noticed last week that John Maddox Roberts' SPQR series was much cheaper ($9.99) and more titles were represented at B&N than at FW, which is weird considering B&N owns FW. They are published by St. Martin's Press. I don't know whether that's a subsidiary of an agency publisher, but when I went to recheck the FW price just now I found they've mysteriously disappeared. Still at B&N though - perhaps I'd better buy the remainig books quickly...

Get them from Sony at $9.99 each in ePub.

If you download via a web browser you currently always get the eReader version. If I am wrong and you get the ePub, see Barnes & Noble DRM for EPUB circumvented (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66295). The point and click ignobleepub.pyw is definitely simpler to use that ereader2html.py. If you want to check it out, the Windows B&N app will usually download the ePub version if there is one. So currently you can usually get both formats (eReader via a browser, ePub via the Windows app).

Thanks, that was pretty easy to set up!

I noticed last week that John Maddox Roberts' SPQR series was much cheaper ($9.99) and more titles were represented at B&N than at FW, which is weird considering B&N owns FW. They are published by St. Martin's Press. I don't know whether that's a subsidiary of an agency publisher, but when I went to recheck the FW price just now I found they've mysteriously disappeared. Still at B&N though - perhaps I'd better buy the remainig books quickly...

St. Martin's Press is a subsidiary of Macmillan.

Here's the full list:

Hachette (Grand Central, Little Brown, Faith Words, Windblown, Orbit, Center Street, Yen Press)

HarperCollins (Amistad, Avon, Caedmon, Ecco, Eos, Harper, ItBooks, Rayo, William Morrow)

Macmillan (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, FSG, Hill & Wang, Faber & Faber, First Second, Henry Holt & Co., Metropolitan Books, Times Books, Nature Publishing Group, Palgrave Macmillan, Picador, Quick and Dirty Tips, Scientific American, St. Martin’s Press, Minotaur Books, Thomas Dunne Books, Tor/Forge, Orb Books)

Penguin (Penguin, Ace, Alpha, Amy Einhorn Books/Putnam, Avery, Berkley, Dial, Dutton, Firebird, Frederick Warne, Gotham, Putnam, Grosset & Dunlap, HP, Hudson Street, Jove, NAL, Pamela Dorman Books, Perigree, Philomel, Plume, Portfolio, Prentice Hall, Price Stern Sloan, Puffin, Razorbill, Riverhead, Sentinel, Speak, Tarcher, Viking)

Simon & Schuster (Atria, Folger, Free Press, Gallery, Howard, Pocket, Scribner, Simon & Schuester, Threshold, Touchstone/Fireside)

Thanks for digging that up, Angst.

Ah, that explains where most of my other books went...they were under Tor.

Well I was in the same situation as a previous poster - I hadn't gotten around to downloading all the Agatha Christie's from the previous sale to my Mac desktop yet. Of course they're not showing up now, so I can't download them now, and they may not re-appear.

However, very fortunately for me, I had downloaded them all to my iPhone using the eReader app. As my iPhone is jailbroken (for this very reason), using a Mac app I have (PhoneView) I am able to access the files directly on the iPhone. This allowed me to copy all of the 453 .pdb files (all the ebooks purchased from FictionWise and eReader) over to my Mac. While they are named obscurely e.g. 1A7D9A3B6DDC2162.pdb, simply importing them into Calibre provides the author and title information from the files meta data. Even better, they are all DRM-free! So I have all my ebooks and can easily convert them to any format I choose using Calibre, which has been a real godsend for me. How lucky is that!

However, very fortunately for me, I had downloaded them all to my iPhone using the eReader app. As my iPhone is jailbroken (for this very reason), using a Mac app I have (PhoneView) I am able to access the files directly on the iPhone.

FWIW--PhoneView doesn't require a jailbroken iPhone. I have the same program and have never bothered to jailbreak mine. The program's a great lifesaver though for pulling files off the iPhone; I've used it retrieve songs purchased through iTunes that have "vanished" off my Mac but were still on the phone.

The program's a great lifesaver though for pulling files off the iPhone; I've used it retrieve songs purchased through iTunes that have "vanished" off my Mac but were still on the phone.
iTunes itself is supposed to be able to do that now. :)

FWIW--PhoneView doesn't require a jailbroken iPhone. I have the same program and have never bothered to jailbreak mine. The program's a great lifesaver though for pulling files off the iPhone; I've used it retrieve songs purchased through iTunes that have "vanished" off my Mac but were still on the phone.

That is correct. However you can only access the "root" of the iPhone filesystem, and hence the apps directories and the ebooks contained within the eReader app, on a jailbroken iphone.

On a normal iphone, you can only access the general area which Apple allows you to access. So for my circumstance, I could only have retrieved my FW ebooks from a JB iPhone.

That explains where all the Star Trek books went. *sigh*

Does anyone know when the publishers will be putting their books back onto Fictionwise?

No. Possibly never*.

Does anyone know when the publishers will be putting their books back onto Fictionwise?


* OK, probably not really never. But quite possibly not for several months and perhaps not even for years.

OK, probably not really never. But quite possibly not for several months and perhaps not even for years.

That's just AWFUL. There are so many of my favorite authors that I read only in eBook format and now I have to switch back to print, which I do not like or want to do.

That's just AWFUL. There are so many of my favorite authors that I read only in eBook format and now I have to switch back to print, which I do not like or want to do.


You could buy from other ebook stores. As you have an iPhone, you could get the Kindle for iPhone app, and buy from Amazon. Books bought that way are easy to 'liberate' so that you can move them to any future device.

St. Martin's Press is a subsidiary of Macmillan.

Here's the full list:

Hachette (Grand Central, Little Brown, Faith Words, Windblown, Orbit, Center Street, Yen Press)

HarperCollins (Amistad, Avon, Caedmon, Ecco, Eos, Harper, ItBooks, Rayo, William Morrow)

Macmillan (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, FSG, Hill & Wang, Faber & Faber, First Second, Henry Holt & Co., Metropolitan Books, Times Books, Nature Publishing Group, Palgrave Macmillan, Picador, Quick and Dirty Tips, Scientific American, St. Martin’s Press, Minotaur Books, Thomas Dunne Books, Tor/Forge, Orb Books)

Penguin (Penguin, Ace, Alpha, Amy Einhorn Books/Putnam, Avery, Berkley, Dial, Dutton, Firebird, Frederick Warne, Gotham, Putnam, Grosset & Dunlap, HP, Hudson Street, Jove, NAL, Pamela Dorman Books, Perigree, Philomel, Plume, Portfolio, Prentice Hall, Price Stern Sloan, Puffin, Razorbill, Riverhead, Sentinel, Speak, Tarcher, Viking)

Simon & Schuster (Atria, Folger, Free Press, Gallery, Howard, Pocket, Scribner, Simon & Schuester, Threshold, Touchstone/Fireside)Great list, thanks! I just copied it into a memo on my Zod so I'll have it handy in the days to come. (Geez, it sounds like I'm preparing for the end times or something. I wonder.)

You could buy from other ebook stores. As you have an iPhone, you could get the Kindle for iPhone app, and buy from Amazon. Books bought that way are easy to 'liberate' so that you can move them to any future device.

Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. It is wonderful to know. I'll keep Kindle in mind. Do you know - if I buy a Kindle book from Amazon, can I deliver it to more than 1 iPhone?

Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. It is wonderful to know. I'll keep Kindle in mind. Do you know - if I buy a Kindle book from Amazon, can I deliver it to more than 1 iPhone?

You can put move than one "device" on your account. I'm not sure how many, 3 or 4, I believe. I presume those Iphones aren't connected to other accounts.

Does anyone know when the publishers will be putting their books back onto Fictionwise?

I don't know about Fictionwise but BooksOnBoard expects/hopes to have most books back in the store by mid April, according to the newsletter they sent out this today.

That would be most unfortunate. I still have some money left as Micropay and just renewed my Buywise membership in December.
I understand it may not be their fault, but I would like to know if they ever said anything about this. Anybody has a statement or something like that ?
Or are we guessing ?

No. Possibly never*.




* OK, probably not really never. But quite possibly not for several months and perhaps not even for years.

Well at least I can currently re-download everything from Fictionwise, regardless of publisher. I thought I'd double check I have everything downloaded and backed up and good job I have (apart from one book).

I bought Martin Cruz Smith's - Stalin's Ghost - from BoB last week and forgot to download at the time. All my others from BoB are already downloaded and backed up. But now I get an error message:-

Error Code: 80131904
Error Description: Failed call to fulfill the title.
Error Details: The requested title has been restricted. (TransactionID
= booksonboard~00003486031_9B57CD08-E309-400F-8F3C-E6D3121BB386-410)

I know it is one of the agency titles.

So even though I have back ups of the others, I thought I'd just try and about half of them I can't download any more.

Hopefully I'll get a refund from BoB unless they are planning on putting it back up there.

Well at least I can currently re-download everything from Fictionwise, regardless of publisher.

I still can't download about half my Fictionwise books.

Books from both HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster in eReader format are giving me the error message: "The requested eBook title cannot be downloaded at this time due to difficulty in communicating with the retail site. Please try again later."

Mobipocket books from Hachette, Simon & Schuster and HarperCollins are giving an error message as follows
Description : Error : Download is not authorized for this retailer.
Source : download.asp
Number : -1

Mobipocket books from Penguin are working fine.

I do have most of my books backed up or at least recoverable, but following a computer crash I've currently lost 3 recent purchases in eReader format that weren't on either of my reading devices.

I have about half of my purchased DRM books aren't available right now including one I hadn't had a chance to download. :(

While Fictionwise probably could have handled this better, it's worth pointing out that BooksOnBoard did send out such an email and have been condemned for scaremongering in order to drive sales ahead of the change.

The fact is that the price increases will not be across the board, and the new model could also see some prices fall. It's all very confusing as it's been driven through by these five publishers at very short notice, probably in order to get the new pricing in place by the time the iPad launches.

Until the dust settles it's not at all clear what the outcome will be, and how the prices will really be affected.

It's also the imposition of sales tax on eBook sales in some states according to this new model that's going to have a significant effect on some stores and catalogues.

Graham

I don't know what you're smokin' bud, but I'd like to try some-IMO you're fantasizing if you believe prices won't increase with these changes. Except, maybe, for a few token books intended mainly to support claims that they didn't increase prices across the board. Watch out for claims that they didn't increase average prices either-they'll compute 'average' as meaning what you'd pay if you bought one copy of each book in their catalog. A true average would be the total cost of all copies they sell divided by the number of copies.

IOW, if they sell 100,000 copies of a best-seller at $20 each and 100 copies of a new author's short story at $1 each, the average price is $19.98, not the $10.50 they'll try to claim it is.

Somebody mentioned that BOB hid/ghosted wishlist books that were no longer for sale-and thought that others would do likewise. Again, I'd like some of that happy-dust. I've found that since B&N bought FW they've become less interested in working out customer problems, i.e. most responses I've received have been politely worded requests that I go away.

One thing that I think *will* work out with FW is the books that can no longer be downloaded from the bookshelf. They've left those entries in the bookshelf so, assuming the books are eventually made available again you shouldn't need to re-purchase them. (Won't affect me-I not only download my books immediately, but I back them up to my computer, liberate them so I can read them on any device I own, and then back them up to offline storage. So I'm protected, but I do note that it's a lot of work for most people. Work that shouldn't be necessary but, due to DRM & the unreliability of online 'storage' sites, is.)

calvin-c

I'm usually so good at doing the same as you but missed out on this one book. A refund would do, though I'd rather have the book back!

Will just have to wait and see

I'm seeing the term DRM a lot. What is that please?

I'm seeing the term DRM a lot. What is that please?

Digital Rights Management. This is a layer wrapped round the file of an ebook that limits what the user is permitted to do with it, ostensibly to curb piracy. In some cases (library lending) it can serve a useful purpose, but as with DRM on music sales it can prevent a legitimate purchaser being able to use the book in a way that seems reasonable at some future date (such as transferring it to another device) which causes considerable frustration and outright anger at times.

There are a number of different DRM systems in use, which just serves to make things even more confusing.

Searching for more info on the following will reveal the particular attributes of each:

Adobe ADEPT
Kindle (or Amazon) Topaz Mobipocket
Apple iBooks (or iTunes, or Fairplay) DRM
Secure Mobipocket
Secure eReader
Secure Microsoft Reader
Barnes & Noble DRM

There are probably others (is the Kobo DRM yet another?)...

Graham

I'm going to try that. I have also downloaded the iPhone app for Kobobooks and will do so for the Amazon Kindle as well.

I think it is unfortunate for us because Fictionwise did have the largest selection of eBooks on the market.

I hope everyone wakes up and comes to their senses soon.

I can honestly say that at the moment I haven't even tried re-downloading previous purchased books from Fictionwise...and I'm almost scared to try. Thankfully they were all in Calibre already.

What is troubling to me is the fact hat I randomly selected about 10 of this week's "new books" and none of them were available in either mobi or epub. I've had more poorly formatted books in ereader or ms reader than I have in mobi or epub, so I would really prefer not to buy ereader or ms reader formats!

I'm going to try that. I have also downloaded the iPhone app for Kobobooks and will do so for the Amazon Kindle as well.

I think it is unfortunate for us because Fictionwise did have the largest selection of eBooks on the market.

I hope everyone wakes up and comes to their senses soon.
Not even close unless you define market as 'books only available by purchase'. If it's simply 'books available' which is how I would define it, then Project Gutenberg outclasses it by at couple of orders of magnitude, I think. (IIRC 2 orders of magnitude is 100X?)

I don't know about Fictionwise but BooksOnBoard expects/hopes to have most books back in the store by mid April, according to the newsletter they sent out this today.

:eek:

You mean they actually communicated something about this problem, finally?!

Jeez, they've been my favorite place to go for years, but lately their customer service has been abysmal.

:eek:

You mean they actually communicated something about this problem, finally?!

Jeez, they've been my favorite place to go for years, but lately their customer service has been abysmal.

When this whole thing started they were the first to post a statement on their website about it, though it was called "scaremongering" on this forum. They also announced it in their email newsletter on March 26/27.

I've had some dealings with their support lately and they responded quickly and did everything to help me solve the problem.

Not even close unless you define market as 'books only available by purchase'. If it's simply 'books available' which is how I would define it, then Project Gutenberg outclasses it by at couple of orders of magnitude, I think. (IIRC 2 orders of magnitude is 100X?)

Actually, I was referring to currently published (new) books that are still in print rather than the wonderful stuff that comes out of Project Gutenberg which I also visit regularly.

I had about 40 books in my wishlist, today there were 5...

I had about 150 books in there. I've had some of them in there for ages. I don't think I could even remember half of what was in there. Hopefully, they will put the list back in there when all this hubbub dies down and the books are back for sale.

Well at least I can currently re-download everything from Fictionwise, regardless of publisher. I thought I'd double check I have everything downloaded and backed up and good job I have (apart from one book).

I had most of my books downloaded to my iPhone but not to my PC. Now I'm going through the arduous task of downloading them all to my PC so that I do not lose anything. *sigh* At least I am still able to download what is in my bookshelf.

The main problem for most customers of Fictionwise who may not be aware of the ways to strip DRM, or who would prefer not to break the law, is that at present they cannot redownload books with secure Mobipocket DRM, which would prevent them from moving their books to a new device.

Graham

The main problem for most customers of Fictionwise who may not be aware of the ways to strip DRM

How does one go about stripping DRM?

Most of my books are eReader pdb format books.

How does one go about stripping DRM?

Most of my books are eReader pdb format books.

It would be inappropriate to publish that on these forums. Someone wishing to investigate this would probably do a search on "stripping ereader DRM".

However, eReader DRM is not so bad as the purchaser only needs the original credit card number to use the book on a new device that also supports eReader. With Mobipocket you are forced to download the books again after entering the new device ID on every store you used previously.

Graham

I'm disturbed about the people who purchased books, but didn't download them, before the books were yanked....isn't that illegal? I know they keep a record of when/if a title is downloaded...if you purchased it, and didn't 'take possession'(download), surely they have to either make it available to you or refund your money? I'd definitely send some emails.... Also, did I understand correctly that some people can't access DRM books they've already downloaded?

About deDRMing...best I can recommend is--google is your friend, and there are a number of threads that explain how to go about it for the various formats. Use the Search, Luke...er...yeah:tiny:. Not having to worry overmuch about the format of an ebook before purchasing it is very liberating! Plus not having to worry that formats won't be supported down the road....

The only downside of the ereader drm is keeping track of outdated credit card numbers; I'd imagine it would build up after a while...

Thanks Graham and momghoti, you've been very helpful.

Not even close unless you define market as 'books only available by purchase'. If it's simply 'books available' which is how I would define it, then Project Gutenberg outclasses it by at couple of orders of magnitude, I think. (IIRC 2 orders of magnitude is 100X?)

I think you have your numbers the wrong way around. Project Gutenberg has just under 32,000 titles available. Just over 100,000 are available through its "Partners, Affiliates and Resources".

Amazon currently has over 480,000 ebooks available.

Even Fictionwise, with its greatly depleted stock thanks to the current fuss with the agency model, has over 45,000 titles.

I think you have your numbers the wrong way around. Project Gutenberg has just under 32,000 titles available. Just over 100,000 are available through its "Partners, Affiliates and Resources".

Amazon currently has over 480,000 ebooks available.

Even Fictionwise, with its greatly depleted stock thanks to the current fuss with the agency model, has over 45,000 titles.

I was wondering about those stats. Thanks for sharing.

Just did a check through Fictionwise and ALL of my husband's favorite authors are gone!!!

I'm disturbed about the people who purchased books, but didn't download them, before the books were yanked....isn't that illegal?

No, FW states that your ebook will be available for a certain amount of time after you buy it... and they will make best efforts to retain it beyond that time (I think they say 3-5 days.)

BOb

From the Fictiowise FAQ on "Expiring Downloads":

Because we own the eReader format, and because we serve all MultiFormat files ourselves, we can ensure continued availability of these purchased formats indefinitely. We cannot absolutely guarantee future availability of files delivered through third party aggregators, which currently includes all Secure Microsoft Reader, Secure Mobipocket, and Secure Adobe Digital Editions eBooks. This is why we strongly recommend MultiFormat and Secure eReader formats above other choices.

Graham

And from the Fictionwise Terms of Use:

9. Ebooks. After purchasing any downloadable eBook or product from Fictionwise.com, it is the Fictionwise Member's responsibility to download the eBook or product within 1 hour of purchase. If you believe an error has been made in the purchase, please do not download the eBook (you must contact us explaining the error at support@fictionwise.com). Once you download the eBook, then it is impossible for us to refund you for it. Please note: Because of the constantly evolving nature of the eBook industry and eBook formats, we do not guarantee that eBooks you purchase from Fictionwise will always be available in the formats that we "currently" support. That is why it is important that you download the eBook in the format of your choice immediately after purchasing.

Fictionwise, however, will make efforts to keep the product listed and available for download in the Fictionwise member's "Bookshelf" for one week, and longer when possible -- but this is not guaranteed.

Graham

Clearly, though, if you've not downloaded the book you've paid for, and it is no longer available, then you should be refunded for it, and I very much doubt that Fictionwise would fail to do this for you.

Graham

The one book I hadn't downloaded was a preorder that became available either last week or the week before. I'd been sick and then busy catching up with responsibilities and forgot to download the book. Right now I'm taking a wait and see approach. Hopefully, in the near future my book will be available to download.

And from the Fictionwise Terms of Use:

Graham
Not the wording I recall from FW's Terms when I signed up-and those are the terms I agreed to. As with many online services the Terms provide a 'weasel clause' whereby you agree to whatever the changes they choose to make in the Terms. Such clauses are of dubious legality. Some sites (I don't *think* FW is one) require that you re-agree to the Terms when they make a significant change.

I don't have the email I received recently from FW's customer service, but IIRC they said that they only guarantee you can download ebooks for 3 weeks after purchase. Quite a bit different from their current guarantee of 1 hour.

I think you have your numbers the wrong way around. Project Gutenberg has just under 32,000 titles available. Just over 100,000 are available through its "Partners, Affiliates and Resources".

Amazon currently has over 480,000 ebooks available.

Even Fictionwise, with its greatly depleted stock thanks to the current fuss with the agency model, has over 45,000 titles.

What I get for not researching before answering. Memory said they had over a million books. Apparently my memory is failing. What's my name again?

I have a book I think I pre-ordered that disappeared. I noticed an epub was out, checked my database in Calibre and didn't see it, so tried to order it. A message came up saying I had already purchased it in another format. I dimly remembered a pre-order ages ago so I checked my Fictionwise bookshelf. It was not there. And a search on FW did not turn it up. I hope that if this was a pre-order they refunded my money if the book is not available. But then why is the shopping cart telling me I have this book already?

Digging into my Outlook archive I can see that back in August 2007 the wording from Fictionwise on the email that came with purchases was this:

NOTICE: You should download your purchases as soon as possible. Fictionwise will maintain your purchases on your bookshelf for at least three months, and longer if we can, but that is not guaranteed. Make sure you back up your files.

Prior to that the email didn't have any information on the time limit.

Now, for a purchase in March 2010 it was still the same:

NOTICE: You should download your purchases as soon as possible. Fictionwise will maintain your purchases on your bookshelf for at least three months, and longer if we can, but that is not guaranteed. Make sure you back up your files.

So this has changed very recently... possibly over Easter.

Graham

It looks like most books are back on my bookshelf at both BoB and FW

Clearly, though, if you've not downloaded the book you've paid for, and it is no longer available, then you should be refunded for it, and I very much doubt that Fictionwise would fail to do this for you.

Graham

I'm not at all sure about that, Graham. FW have to pay the distributor at the time that you buy the book; do you really think that the distributor will refund FW their money simply because you've neglected to download the book?

The sale is "complete" when FW provide you with the download link. It seems to me that it's your responsibility to ensure that you download it, and that FW cannot be held to be responsible for any failure to do so on your part.

Well some good news, for those of you who couldn't download their books, please try again. I managed to get all except one of mine today (the one I couldn't get was an .lit format book).

I'm not at all sure about that, Graham. FW have to pay the distributor at the time that you buy the book; do you really think that the distributor will refund FW their money simply because you've neglected to download the book?

The sale is "complete" when FW provide you with the download link. It seems to me that it's your responsibility to ensure that you download it, and that FW cannot be held to be responsible for any failure to do so on your part.
This might depend on where you try to enforce the contract. As a general rule, a sale isn't considered complete under US law until you receive the goods or services for which you've paid. The question, which hasn't been submitted to judgment AFAIK, is whether the 'goods' is the book or the link?

Personally, from FW's advertising (which can be taken into account when determining the issue) I'd say it's the book-so the sale isn't complete until you download it. That does, however, put quite a burden on FW so I wouldn't want to bet that a judge would see it the same way. And non-US jurisdictions (or even regional/local variations in the US) might see it differently.

Why wouldn't you download the book once it is put in your bookshelf? They tell you that they may not be able to keep all of your books in your bookshelf, so it just seems like it would be common sense to download all your books as soon as you can to ensure you always have them.

FW DID complete their end of the deal by putting it in your bookshelf. They can't download it to your computer for you that is YOUR responsibility. If you didn't bother to move it to your PERSONAL pc that's on YOU not FW.

cfrizz, what about iPod Touch/iPhone users? That machine does not allow side-loading. The only way to get it onto the device is via the in-app download. I have several books backed up on my computer that I tried to download into the app and could not. Having them on my computer did me no good in terms of getting them onto my iPod Touch.

cfrizz, what about iPod Touch/iPhone users? That machine does not allow side-loading. The only way to get it onto the device is via the in-app download. I have several books backed up on my computer that I tried to download into the app and could not. Having them on my computer did me no good in terms of getting them onto my iPod Touch.

If you have a fictionwise account, you can probbaly use their Personal Content Server (no, I didn't know about it either). See this thread: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=865455#post865455

I've just gone back and downloaded all my un-downloaded eBooks from FW that I had bought over the last 3 months, even some from pulled authors and fortunately they all downloaded and I now have copies of all of them on my PC. Phew!

Even Fictionwise, with its greatly depleted stock thanks to the current fuss with the agency model, has over 45,000 titles.

How many titles do you think were pulled by the publishers from Fictionwise?

A lot. But they all seem to be back again now.

I did download most of my books in my bookshelf to my palm.. Now I have a new reader (ipod touch) with ereader installed, and 40% of my books, which I paid for (they werent even cheap) cannot be downloaded to my ipod's ereader...

When I first joined fictionwise the agreement was I could download my books at any time. They never sent me a message to say that this had now changed.

I thought, when you bought a book it was yours, or at least yours to read.

No, they have never promised that your books would be available indefinitely. They can't, because the books actually come from the distributor's server; FictionWise don't store them themselves. The book is only available for as long as the distributor continues to supply that book, and that's something that FW has absolutely no control over.

If you buy a book in a "secure" format, then you're only buying it in that one format. You can't, for example, buy a book in Mobipocket format and then later re-download it in eReader format. Only "multiformat" books have this capability.

I thought, when you bought a book it was yours, or at least yours to read.

It is, but it's your responsibility to keep it safely backed up, not the bookstore's.

A lot. But they all seem to be back again now.

They may be back for download from bookshelves, but Fictionwise still has under 46,000 books for sale.

This I calculated by adding the numbers in each fiction and non-fiction subject. (45882)

It can be quickly cross-checked, by adding the numbers shown for multiformat and secure eReader formats. (44629) This doesn't quite match the sum I found, either because some books are listed under more than one category or, more likely, because there are some non-multiformat books that aren't available in secure eReader format.


Fictionwise currently seem to have no Secure Mobipocket ebooks or sale at all. None.

It is, but it's your responsibility to keep it safely backed up, not the bookstore's.

I agree, backing up is always our own responsibility. It is always safer knowing it's on your own hard drive than someone elses. You never know about unforeseen circumstances, like now.

I freaked when this happened and so many authors I had purchased where no longer available on FW. Fortunately, I was able to download the books that I had purchased from the last 3 months to my iPhone (temporary for reading) and to my PC (permanent for storage).

They may be back for download from bookshelves, but Fictionwise still has under 46,000 books for sale.

This I calculated by adding the numbers in each fiction and non-fiction subject. (45882)

It can be quickly cross-checked, by adding the numbers shown for multiformat and secure eReader formats. (44629) This doesn't quite match the sum I found, either because some books are listed under more than one category or, more likely, because there are some non-multiformat books that aren't available in secure eReader format.


Fictionwise currently seem to have no Secure Mobipocket ebooks or sale at all. None.

Do we know the "before" number?

A lot. But they all seem to be back again now.

Are you sure? I have been searching on authors that I had purchased previously but still do not seem to be available, quite a few of them actually, but previously purchased books are available to be downloaded from one's bookshelf.

Are you sure? I have been searching on authors that I had purchased previously but still do not seem to be available, quite a few of them actually, but previously purchased books are available to be downloaded from one's bookshelf.

Ah, OK. I was just going from my own bookshelf - I didn't check to see if they were actually available for purchase.

Do we know the "before" number?

I didn't think to check before the books disappeared. But if it was less than 100,000 I'd be very surprised.

Hmm... secure books on their site are now a little below 20,000. Let me look at secure ebooks in my bookshelf.

Of the 13 secure eReader books on my bookshelf, 12 are no longer on sale.
I have 477 secure Mobipocket books, so I can only do sample. Of the first 25 in alphabetical order, only 4 are still on sale (& none of them in Mobipocket format)
Of the 8 microsoft lit files, 2 are still on sale.

so out of 46 books, only 7 are still on sale. That's about 15%. There are about 20,000 secure ebooks on sale at the moment, so before the change there might have been 130,000.

Take that with a pinch of salt, of course. It's based on a very small (possibly unrepresentative) sample.

Does anyone have hard figures?

You can't go by what's available for sale. All of my secure mobi ebooks that have a download link can be downloaded even the ones that are no longer sold. I have a number of mobi ebooks that are expired and without checking every one it appears that those are the ones that were withdrawn when one of the content servers stopped using Fictionwise. The same is true for my secure eReader and Microsoft Reader ebooks. It's only a handful of my secure ePub ebooks that have a download link are not downloadable.

You can't go by what's available for sale. All of my secure mobi ebooks that have a download link can be downloaded even the ones that are no longer sold.

But last week those books were simply not there on your bookshelf. That's what I'm saying has changed since then, so clearly progress is being made to restore "missing" books.

I didn't check before today but there are no books missing from my bookshelf. There is only one book I hadn't downloaded, it was a preorder, and it's always been listed. I just can't download it.

But last week those books were simply not there on your bookshelf. That's what I'm saying has changed since then, so clearly progress is being made to restore "missing" books.

Weird. AFAICT my wishlist has shrunk, but my bookshelf has never lost any books and has always shown all the books I've purchased (even though many are not for sale anymore, and at least one can still not be downloaded).

All my Mobi books were just gone. Now they've reappeared.

It is, but it's your responsibility to keep it safely backed up, not the bookstore's.

Wait... I have gone back to borders several times and told them I lost a book I had bought previously. They happily gave me a new copy.


















NOT !!!

BOb

That's about 15%. There are about 20,000 secure ebooks on sale at the moment, so before the change there might have been 130,000.

Take that with a pinch of salt, of course. It's based on a very small (possibly unrepresentative) sample.

Does anyone have hard figures?

I don't have any hard figures but if I go by what happened to my wish list, that shrank by 2/3 so that's about 67% fewer books than before. Very sad.

Do we know the "before" number?

I don't have hard numbers, but in January of 2009, they lost one of the content aggregators that supply them with ebooks, and they negotiated with publishers to allow previously purchased affected eBooks to be substituted with eReader versions. From the FAQ (https://www.fictionwise.com/help/Expiring-Download-Replacement-FAQ.htm) that Fictionwise put out during that crisis, they wrote: Approximately 300,000 eBook units were affected. This is less than 4% of all eBooks sold by Fictionwise.

Based on that figure, they claim to have had 7,500,000 books for sale. I question that number -- it sounds pretty high to me -- but I'm guessing they were doing some sort of math based on how many of their books were available in multiple formats. Regardless, the number of individual books that are now available for purchase does seem to have dropped by 50-65%. I went through about 6 pages of my bookshelf (out of 29 :D), and started counting how many are still available for purchase and how many aren't, and about 54% of the books that I own are no longer for sale. So very sad.

Does anyone know why some ebook stores seem to have recovered while others haven't? I mean, I just did a quick search for Nora Roberts (as a very popular author with a large catalog for comparison), and Fictionwise, Books on Board, Diesel Books, and Mobipocket.com each only had 7 - 10 of her books available, but Amazon's Kindle store, Sony's reader store, and Barnes & Noble.com all seem to have pretty much her entire catalog of ebooks available. Is it all about the power of the big names (Amazon, Sony, B&N) vs. the little guys? Do we think that Fictionwise and the rest will ever recover? Since B&N.com seems not to be having any problems, and since they own Fictionwise now, it seems likely to me that Fictionwise will just be phased out.

Based on that figure, they claim to have had 7,500,000 books for sale. I question that number

I'm sure they meant the number of copies sold, not individual titles.

Since B&N owns Fictionwise, one would think that FW could offer agency titles if they were willing to accept the same terms B&N does. I assume the reason they haven't has to do their inability to honor the Buywise club or use Micropay rebates with agency pricing. Hopefully they are trying to work it out.

I'm sure they meant the number of copies sold, not individual titles.

Ah yes, that would make more sense, wouldn't it? And now I feel stupid. :p

Since B&N owns Fictionwise, one would think that FW could offer agency titles if they were willing to accept the same terms B&N does. I assume the reason they haven't has to do their inability to honor the Buywise club or use Micropay rebates with agency pricing. Hopefully they are trying to work it out.

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping too. I have to say that Fictionwise's Buywise club and micropay rebates have been one of the biggest reasons that I've bought my books almost exclusively from Fictionwise over the last five years. I don't necessarily mind buying an ebook at the same price that the hardcopy sells for, but I balk at paying more for an electronic copy than a paper copy. And even the brick and mortar stores all have some form of rewards program to promote store loyalty, or at least the major chains do -- Waldenbooks, Barnes & Noble, etc. It seems vastly unfair to me that ebook sellers are having to discontinue the electronic version of an established practice. I can only hope it will all work out in the end.

Three ebooks I bought in the days just before this agency nonsense are not downloadable for me. I didn't realize I wouldn't have access to them less than 2 days after purchasing them, so don't have any copies. I wrote to Fictionwise about it today and am confident I will get my Micropay refunded. But I am so pissed that a publisher would yank access to a book that was *already paid for* that I just visited the darknet and got copies of them all. I'll be damned if I'm going to beg someone to take my money. I've already given it to them once and that is enough in my book.

-Marcy

Three ebooks I bought in the days just before this agency nonsense are not downloadable for me. I didn't realize I wouldn't have access to them less than 2 days after purchasing them, so don't have any copies. I wrote to Fictionwise about it today and am confident I will get my Micropay refunded. But I am so pissed that a publisher would yank access to a book that was *already paid for* that I just visited the darknet and got copies of them all. I'll be damned if I'm going to beg someone to take my money. I've already given it to them once and that is enough in my book.

-Marcy

I agree... 40% of the books I have bought are not available..

PS - I also wrote to Fictionwise..

I agree... 40% of the books I have bought are not available..

PS - I also wrote to Fictionwise..

I'm sure lots of the other hundreds of books I bought at Fictionwise aren't available, but at least I already downloaded them and backed them up. I bought a couple of titles that I didn't download, assuming I would get them a few days later. Well a few days later they weren't downloadable. Totally bogus. While I don't agree with it, I can at least see not letting a retailer sell them anymore. But removing access for that retailer's customers that have *already paid for the books* is just bullfeces.

-Marcy

I just did a quick search for Nora Roberts (as a very popular author with a large catalog for comparison), and Fictionwise, Books on Board, Diesel Books, and Mobipocket.com each only had 7 - 10 of her books available, but Amazon's Kindle store, Sony's reader store, and Barnes & Noble.com all seem to have pretty much her entire catalog of ebooks available. Is it all about the power of the big names (Amazon, Sony, B&N) vs. the little guys? Do we think that Fictionwise and the rest will ever recover? Since B&N.com seems not to be having any problems, and since they own Fictionwise now, it seems likely to me that Fictionwise will just be phased out.

Thanks for this. I went onto B&N to look for the eBook version of a book that is due to release soon and found that it was listed for sale and was pleased to see it is available in eBook.

I signed up for it (but haven't bought yet).

Downloaded the app to my iPhone and tried to purchase an eBook from B&N but got stopped because it wanted an US address for purchasing. Grrr .... it's an eBook for goodness sakes. Don't they know that the term "electronic" automatically bypasses geography?

Also noticed that eBook purchases get delivered only 1 hour after purchase rather than immediately. You take my money immediately and you don't let me have what I bought immediately?

Hmmmm ... okay that was 2 rants there.

The other problem with the B&N eBooks is that is looks like it needs to be delivered only via Wifi (Nook?) and 3G (iPhone or iPod Touch or Blackberry?) and I have not figured out how to download and backup purchases to the PC, what format the books are delivered in (eReader? Mobi? etc.). Cant tell from the iPhone when I logged on and downloaded a bunch of free books they were offering.

Hopefully if Fictionwise are nearly sorted in the case of downloads, BooksOnBoard won't be far behind. I still can't download the copy of Stalin's Ghost I bought on the 31st March (and unfortunately left to the following Monday to download - which I haven't be able to do yet).

The same is true for my secure eReader and Microsoft Reader ebooks. It's only a handful of my secure ePub ebooks that have a download link are not downloadable.
Were any of the MS Reader books you tried from Penguin Putnam?

Three ebooks I bought in the days just before this agency nonsense are not downloadable for me. I didn't realize I wouldn't have access to them less than 2 days after purchasing them, so don't have any copies. I wrote to Fictionwise about it today and am confident I will get my Micropay refunded. But I am so pissed that a publisher would yank access to a book that was *already paid for* that I just visited the darknet and got copies of them all. I'll be damned if I'm going to beg someone to take my money. I've already given it to them once and that is enough in my book.

-Marcy
According to FW's customer service (not that I believe them, but it's what they say) FW had no notice that the books were being pulled. Since they don't store the books themselves in all cases (IIRC they do store eReader & multiformat on their own servers) your ability to download them is dependent not only on FW's services but also on the services of the company from which the download actually comes. Per FW's customer service, that company (or companies) simply stopped honoring download requests with no warning or explanation given.

Assuming that's true, then it's not FW's fault. That doesn't mean they shouldn't refund your money-they should, but it's still not their fault. Hopefully they'll provide more information about the nefarious companies that are defrauding FW's customers, but probably not. Particularly since they seem to have worked out most of the problems. Sad-if they were more publicly active about pursuing these scoundrels they might have kept me as a customer. As it is, I have about 2 1/2 years left on my club membership, assuming FW lasts that long, I'll be out of there when that ends. And once my micropay is gone (down from $200 to $35 over the past 2 weeks, so it won't be long) I won't be a very active customer even while I'm still a member. So basically, they lost me.

As the retailer, it's my opinion that FW should represent the customers to the 'hidden' suppliers on whom the customers are actually dependent. They should *not* be cooperating with those suppliers to the detriment of the customers. Assuming they don't want to 'get involved' they should at least publish the names & contact info so the customers can complain directly.

According to FW's customer service (not that I believe them, but it's what they say) FW had no notice that the books were being pulled. Since they don't store the books themselves in all cases (IIRC they do store eReader & multiformat on their own servers) your ability to download them is dependent not only on FW's services but also on the services of the company from which the download actually comes. Per FW's customer service, that company (or companies) simply stopped honoring download requests with no warning or explanation given.

Assuming that's true, then it's not FW's fault. That doesn't mean they shouldn't refund your money-they should, but it's still not their fault. Hopefully they'll provide more information about the nefarious companies that are defrauding FW's customers, but probably not. Particularly since they seem to have worked out most of the problems. Sad-if they were more publicly active about pursuing these scoundrels they might have kept me as a customer. As it is, I have about 2 1/2 years left on my club membership, assuming FW lasts that long, I'll be out of there when that ends. And once my micropay is gone (down from $200 to $35 over the past 2 weeks, so it won't be long) I won't be a very active customer even while I'm still a member. So basically, they lost me.

As the retailer, it's my opinion that FW should represent the customers to the 'hidden' suppliers on whom the customers are actually dependent. They should *not* be cooperating with those suppliers to the detriment of the customers. Assuming they don't want to 'get involved' they should at least publish the names & contact info so the customers can complain directly.

Oh, I don't blame FW. I think they had every right to expect the publishers would keep access for books their customers had already paid for. It's the publishers and/or their distributers that I blame. Yanking access to already paid for books is just not cool.

That's why I made my journey to the darknet. If the publisher can't honor a contract -- and I feel that my paying for a book is a contract for them to provide it -- then I feel no guilt about turning to an alternate source for the book.

I'll be sad if this nonsense destroys FW. It is my second-favorite place to get ebooks, after Baen. And their selection is (or at least was) much wider than Baen.

-Marcy

That's why I made my journey to the darknet. If the publisher can't honor a contract -- and I feel that my paying for a book is a contract for them to provide it -- then I feel no guilt about turning to an alternate source for the book.


With respect, Marcy, it's not their fault if you don't download the book, is it? Doesn't their purchase e-mail ask you to download it within the hour?

With respect, Marcy, it's not their fault if you don't download the book, is it? Doesn't their purchase e-mail ask you to download it within the hour?

I have to disagree with you here. Marcy has paid for the ebook. Marcy doesn't have (and has never had) the ebook. To my mind that means she should get a refund.

If they're not willing to refund, I think she's morally OK getting the book some other way.

I have to disagree with you here. Marcy has paid for the ebook. Marcy doesn't have (and has never had) the ebook. To my mind that means she should get a refund.


Will the distributor refund FW because Marcy didn't download the book, do you think? I'm sorry, but it's really not FW's fault or responsbility to ensure that the customer downloads what they've bought.

Will the distributor refund FW because Marcy didn't download the book, do you think? I'm sorry, but it's really not FW's fault or responsbility to ensure that the customer downloads what they've bought.

Even if you were correct in your assumption that Fictionwise have paid the distributor, I think good customer service would require a refund.

But I suspect that Fictionwise don't pay the distributor until the file is downloaded - they do not cache encrypted files from the distributors when a sale is made (or else there wouldn't be this problem).

Of course, I don't actually know what the arrangements are between fictionwise and its distributors. But I'd be surprised if fictionwise has agreed to pay distributors for files it never receives.

But I suspect that Fictionwise don't pay the distributor until the file is downloaded - they do not cache encrypted files from the distributors when a sale is made (or else there wouldn't be this problem).

Of course, I don't actually know what the arrangements are between fictionwise and its distributors. But I'd be surprised if fictionwise has agreed to pay distributors for files it never receives.

FW doesn't receive the file at all. The download link on the bookshelf is direct to the distributor's server; it's not a link to FW. FW is not involved in the process of file downloads in any way - other than by providing the download link.

With respect, Marcy, it's not their fault if you don't download the book, is it? Doesn't their purchase e-mail ask you to download it within the hour?
As of March 22nd, the order e-mail said "three months", not "one hour".

Were any of the MS Reader books you tried from Penguin Putnam?

I got a message for a handful of ebooks that my location was incorrect and at least one of those was a Penguin book. My assumption is that once my locality is cleared up I will be able to download them.

With respect, Marcy, it's not their fault if you don't download the book, is it? Doesn't their purchase e-mail ask you to download it within the hour?


I checked the emails from my missing books and as of March 29 this was the message: "NOTICE: You should download your purchases as soon as possible. Fictionwise will maintain your purchases on your bookshelf for at least three months, and longer if we can, but that is not guaranteed. Make sure you back up your files. " Most of the ones in mobi format are back but I'm still missing all epub and most of the lit formats on books purchased within the past 3 months. A few were preorders that never were available.

With respect, Marcy, it's not their fault if you don't download the book, is it? Doesn't their purchase e-mail ask you to download it within the hour?

With respect, Harry, this is exactly what my email said:

NOTICE: You should download your purchases as soon as possible. Fictionwise will maintain your purchases on your bookshelf for at least a week, and longer if we can, but that is not guaranteed. Make sure you back up your files.

So I thought 2 days later would be fine, as it's well within a week.

Edit: And as I've said, I don't blame Fictionwise as I realize this is out of their control. If I thought this was Fictionwise's fault I would have simply cancelled the credit card charge if they wouldn't refund my money. However this is the publisher's fault, for yanking availability of books for FW's customers who already paid for them.

-Marcy

With respect, Harry, this is exactly what my email said:

NOTICE: You should download your purchases as soon as possible. Fictionwise will maintain your purchases on your bookshelf for at least a week, and longer if we can, but that is not guaranteed. Make sure you back up your files.


If that is what the wording says, then you are quite clearly within your rights to require either your book, or a refund. Sorry, I thought from your earlier messages that you were saying that these were books purchased some time ago. From what you've just described, you do indeed have an absolute right to a refund.

Has anyone received a refund from Fictionwise on their missing books? I'm wondering how it works when you received a micropay rebate as part of the deal? Do they refund you and then reduce your micropay balance and what if you've already spent the micropay balance?

Has anyone received a refund from Fictionwise on their missing books? I'm wondering how it works when you received a micropay rebate as part of the deal? Do they refund you and then reduce your micropay balance and what if you've already spent the micropay balance?

IF they refund, which they might not do yet on the assumption that they'll be able to get the books available very soon, on past performance they'll refund the CC, and debit your Micropay balance for the amount of the micropay rebate. I've no idea what they'd do if you've already spent the micropay.

Thanks. They've offered to refund the ones I never downloaded but most had some sort of rebate and I'd really just rather have the books if possible.

In checking my Bookshelf, fictionwise replaced (expired) all my Secure Lit books and replaced them with Secure ereader. Currently I don't have a ereader that can read ereader format (PDB), but I just ordered a Jetbook Lite.

It seems that books are coming back now, as I can now download several of my recent Agatha Christie titles which I couldn't download last week. Looking positive!

It seems that books are coming back now, as I can now download several of my recent Agatha Christie titles which I couldn't download last week. Looking positive!

That's good. They still don't have any of the books back on sale though.

I was pleased to see that this week they're doing a 25% rebate on Science Fiction books. Until I found it was Credit Card only! This is the first time I can remember a 25% rebate not applying to micropay purchases.

This is the first time I can remember a 25% rebate not applying to micropay purchases.

I noticed that last week with the 30% sale too.

Until this all settles out, I'm going to skip these CC only sales. I have a large micropay balance as it is. With the much smaller selection available, I don't see any need to add to it.

I was pleased to see that this week they're doing a 25% rebate on Science Fiction books. Until I found it was Credit Card only! This is the first time I can remember a 25% rebate not applying to micropay purchases.
I thought that this was typical of their "across the board" sales; the rebates on new titles will apply to Micropay purchases, but not the "all books in a category" or "all books" sales.

Used to be above a certain percentage off would require a CC (or Paypal) purchase.

I thought that this was typical of their "across the board" sales; the rebates on new titles will apply to Micropay purchases, but not the "all books in a category" or "all books" sales.

30% or less rebates have always applied to Micropay sales in the past, even across-the-board ones. E.g. the 30% off Science Fiction ebooks in May 2009.

30% or less rebates have always applied to Micropay sales in the past, even across-the-board ones. E.g. the 30% off Science Fiction ebooks in May 2009.

Yes, but it's always been true that in order to get the special rebates offered, you have to pay with a credit card/Paypal. In other words, to get a 30% micropay rebate, you have to pay with actual money and not the money in your micropay account. This has always been the case in the past and isn't new due to this upheaval. For the regular rebates (ie. the standard 10% rebate), you've always been able to pay with micropay while still receiving the micropay rebate. Did that make sense? It made sense in my head. :D

Yes, but it's always been true that in order to get the special rebates offered, you have to pay with a credit card/Paypal. In other words, to get a 30% micropay rebate, you have to pay with actual money and not the money in your micropay account. This has always been the case in the past and isn't new due to this upheaval. For the regular rebates (ie. the standard 10% rebate), you've always been able to pay with micropay while still receiving the micropay rebate. Did that make sense? It made sense in my head. :D

This can be variable, depending on some whim I have never been able to figure out.

For the past couple of months new DRM'd books have been available with a 35% rebate that does apply even when paying with Micropay. Good deal. But the 30% off sale last week, didn't work with Micropay.

-Marcy

Yes, but it's always been true that in order to get the special rebates offered, you have to pay with a credit card/Paypal.

Umm.. No. I even gave an example where that was not the case.

Umm.. No. I even gave an example where that was not the case.

I'm sorry, I guess I was a little too free in my use of the word "always". I didn't actually mean to say that you always had to pay with a credit card to get the major rebates, just much of the time. At least, that's been my experience. As Marcy said, it does seem to vary from sale to sale, and I haven't been able to set down any hard and fast rules either. In fact, there's even been a time or two when a particular book said you would get the rebate only with a credit card payment, but then after I added it to my cart, it let me pay with micropay and I still got the rebate. The whole thing's been a little buggy for a while. YMMV. :D

there's even been a time or two when a particular book said you would get the rebate only with a credit card payment, but then after I added it to my cart, it let me pay with micropay and I still got the rebate. The whole thing's been a little buggy for a while. YMMV.

That's true enough. there was the 75% rebate on Agatha Christie titles, for instance. That said CC only, but worked with Micropay.

I don't mind if the discounts on RRP drop, if the RRPs also drop. We'll have to wait until the dust settles I guess.

I bought a few books on Monday and only the club discount applied since I was using Micropay. All other rebates (which were less than 35%) would only be applied if I used a CC or Paypal.

I tried to re-download a book (just to test, I already have it backed up on my PC) and this is a book that is as Fictionwise puts is "No Longer For Sale" and I got this message:

"Territory not authorized.
You are attempting to download an e-book that has territorial restrictions and it appears that you are in a country that is not authorized.
Please contact the website you purchased this e-book from to determine if an error in processing has occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience."

I tried to re-download a book (just to test, I already have it backed up on my PC) and this is a book that is as Fictionwise puts is "No Longer For Sale" and I got this message:

"Territory not authorized.
You are attempting to download an e-book that has territorial restrictions and it appears that you are in a country that is not authorized.
Please contact the website you purchased this e-book from to determine if an error in processing has occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Yep, I got that one, too.

wow...from the response here and on other sites... fictionwise is doing a great job of upsetting potential customers..!!!

I tried to re-download a book (just to test, I already have it backed up on my PC) and this is a book that is as Fictionwise puts is "No Longer For Sale" and I got this message:

"Territory not authorized.
You are attempting to download an e-book that has territorial restrictions and it appears that you are in a country that is not authorized.
Please contact the website you purchased this e-book from to determine if an error in processing has occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Crap. Hope this is temporary and once things are sorted out they don't reinstantiate geographical restrictions based on geolocation of your IP address. If they do that I won't be able to buy the vast majority of books I'm interested in they sell :(

I tried to re-download a book (just to test, I already have it backed up on my PC) and this is a book that is as Fictionwise puts is "No Longer For Sale" and I got this message:

"Territory not authorized.
You are attempting to download an e-book that has territorial restrictions and it appears that you are in a country that is not authorized.
Please contact the website you purchased this e-book from to determine if an error in processing has occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience."
I just discovered this situation with five books at another retailer. Unfortunately, soon after buying the books, my hard disk on that computer died before I had made a local, external backup, so right now I'm out those books. I've contacted them, so I hope they can resolve the situation.

I think this is still on topic?

The ebooks that were on my online bookshelf at eReader.com (a Fictionwise owned
site, now both owned by B&N, of course) and that had not been available for download,
can now be downloaded, again.

Luck;
Ken

I got an email back from Fictionwise, which includes my own message at the bottom:

Hi,

We are currently working with our providers to resolve the download errors you are experiencing.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may be causing and thank you for your patience as we attempt to resolve this issue.

Please note: The four 'expired' items are NOT related to the recent errors. For more info about 'expired' ebooks, visit this page:
http://www.fictionwise.com/help/Expiring-Download-Replacement-FAQ.htm

Best Regards,

Simon
Fictionwise Support Team

================================================== ==========
You wrote:
I have bought 65 books from you... They're all in my bookshelf. I have paid good money for these books, and now 40% of the titles are unvailable to be.

Surely, since I've already paid for these book, before the geo-restrictions, I should still be able to download them...
Only 4 books comes up as 'expired'.

Thanks for your help

Lene Jorgensen

I got an email back from Fictionwise, which includes my own message at the bottom:
It'll be interesting to see how they resolve this. Assuming the problem is geo-restriction, and assuming that the restrictions haven't been recently added (i.e. they've technically been in the contract all along, but only now are being enforced) then the sale was a violation of the contract between FW & the publisher. *IF* that's the case, then I don't know what FW can do to make the books available again.

Of course it is possible that they switched source/publisher which might have the effect of GR begin recently added. (i.e. it would be a new contract) If that's the case they *might* be able to re-negotiate so the new source would honor previous sales. But who knows. Like I said, it'll be interesting.

I get the same geo restriction notice for about a dozen of my titles and I'm in the US. Same reply from Fictionwise, too.

A bunch more of my FW and eReader books are downloadable now. I've only got 3 titles left in limbo - all 3 are from Penguin Books.

With respect, Marcy, it's not their fault if you don't download the book, is it? Doesn't their purchase e-mail ask you to download it within the hour?

No, they don't do it anymore. Some time ago they did it, but nowadays (some months ago), they send only some mails and a lot of time after the book is available.

What is the situation with respect to authors, though ? I do not still seem to be able to see a lot of authors who were previuosly available (e.g. Lilith Saintcrow, Simon Green and many others I was interested into. The books I bought, though, seem to be available for download, still.)
Does anybody know if they will return to FW ?

A bunch more of my FW and eReader books are downloadable now. I've only got 3 titles left in limbo - all 3 are from Penguin Books.

The release list this week at FW was really sad. Still no return of the publishers that left and even the multiformat stuff was almost non existent.

The release list this week at FW was really sad. Still no return of the publishers that left and even the multiformat stuff was almost non existent.

They've updated today? Last week's new secure Science Fiction was something called "Area 51". Looks like it's still there. They also haven't updated the header - it still says rapid rebate ends on 20th April.

That's not to say they haven't updated and simply not changed this page but I sort of thought that meant they still hadn't updated.

I'm sort of losing faith in FW (and BoB and the others, truth be told). It's almost the end of April and they still haven't got themselves sorted. Plus I've got two new releases I want to buy tomorrow and they're nowhere to be found in the ebook world. Even Amazon isn't listing them (unless strangely you happen to be living in Latin America and the Caribbean).

I guess it hadn't updated when I looked earlier. Wasn't as bad as last weeks update after all, but I guess the agency books are not going to be sold on FW.

I agree - the last few weeks updates are all very thin. I imagine there is quite a bit of work involved behind the scenes to get everything back, and I wonder what the appetite of Fictionwise's new corporate overlords will be to spend much money on it...

It isn,t just Fictionwise .Diesel had David Webers new book a Mighty Fortress last week but now it is gone.Hello, When you release a book it should be available everywhere.

I tried to re-download a book (just to test, I already have it backed up on my PC) and this is a book that is as Fictionwise puts is "No Longer For Sale" and I got this message:

"Territory not authorized.
You are attempting to download an e-book that has territorial restrictions and it appears that you are in a country that is not authorized.
Please contact the website you purchased this e-book from to determine if an error in processing has occurred. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Fictionwise is easily sorted for geo pm for details

Fictionwise is easily sorted for geo pm for details

The error message actually has nothing to do with geo restrictions. I'm getting the same message on any title FW doesn't have access to anymore, even if they used to before the agency mess. And I'm in the US.

T
I'm sort of losing faith in FW (and BoB and the others, truth be told). It's almost the end of April and they still haven't got themselves sorted. Same here, I still only have one book left in my wishlist, and it's more than twice as expensive as when I put it there. All the "specials" in my newsletters are by authors I never heard of, and many of the blurbs (supplied by the authors?) are amateurish and poorly edited. And trying to view the fantasy listings by "FW release date", as I usually do, gives pages of Forgotten Realms sharecrops. I used to buy from FW once a week or so, but I haven't made a purchase since all this blew up.

I've been trying to wait and give Fictionwise a chance to get things fixed one way or another, but since there doesn't seem to have been any changes and they aren't even bothering to acknowledge the issue, I just sent this to them:

I have been a Buywise member for just over a year, and have purchased almost 300 books in that time. I have been happy enough with your prices and selection that I extended my membership for 5 years in June of last year and an additional year in October. Now however, due to the drastic reduction in titles that you carry, the reduction in sales and discounts being offered, and (maybe most importantly) the fact that you no longer seem to be offering your secure titles in my preferred format (Mobipocket), I am unable to find enough books to purchase from your company to make the Buywise membership cost-effective. I am therefore requesting that my Buywise membership be cancelled effective the end of the current membership year, and the membership fee for the remaining 5 years be refunded to me. Since I have used 2 of the $10 coupons associated with that 5 years of membership, of course I would expect that $20 to be deducted from my refund. I hate having to make this request, as I have been very happy with Fictionwise in the past. Unfortunately the recent changes make that no longer the case.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

We'll see what if any response I get.

^ Ya, I'm only a buywise member till august (thank God), but I sent them a message last Thursdayish, just asking if they expect to get back their old selection and why they have not posted anything on their site about this whole mess - I said explain to your members what is going on instead of leaving them in the dark.

No response as of yet. I've got about $80 micropay dollars that I am going to use up - though I'm not sure how right now - and then I am out of there.

They blew it. This whole Agency pricing model (and the issues its brought to FW) is not their fault, but their silence in this matter has been their undoing, imo.

That was pretty much my thinking too. If they'd even sent an email or posted a message on the site saying they were working on finding a solution, I'd have waited - my current year just started, so I could wait almost a year before making the request I did and it wouldn't make a difference to me. I just got tired of them refusing to say ANYTHING.

Well,

FW just added a couple of titles by Thomas Cahill (How the Irish Saved Civilisation) which included a rebate, even with Micropay purchase, so I used up some more micropay and brought my balance down to $67. My theory, use up micropay dollars as soon as possible since B&N is out to destroy FW.

Well,

FW just added a couple of titles by Thomas Cahill (How the Irish Saved Civilisation) which included a rebate, even with Micropay purchase, so I used up some more micropay and brought my balance down to $67. My theory, use up micropay dollars as soon as possible since B&N is out to destroy FW.Won't they have to refund unused Micropay if (when?) they shut the doors? It's practically impossible to use up the last bit of it, since you can't buy books on partial credit/partial Micropay.

^ I can't see them refunding MP dollars, for the most part the are like 'bonus' dollars. hopefully you didn't pay cash for any.

I've got to figure out how to use my balance and use it quick. Things don't feel right here.

I got mine down to .63 cents.

I requested a refund for the unused portion of my BuyWise membership. I got this response less than 24 hours later:

As requested, we have returned the unused portion of your Buywise Membership...[remaining details removed]

I requested a refund for the unused portion of my BuyWise membership. I got this response less than 24 hours later:

As requested, we have returned the unused portion of your Buywise Membership...[remaining details removed]

well... that was nice of them... now they are going to get a flood of requests for this. ;)

BOb

well... that was nice of them... now they are going to get a flood of requests for this. ;)

BOb

Yep, I made a similar request yesterday, and just received this response:

Karen,

Okay, I've asked our financial department to send the $104.95 (equal to 124.95 minus 20.00) back to your credit card.

Due to industry changes, our content suppliers are currently unable to offer certain titles from several large publishers. We are working with our content partners to resolve this.

Best Regards,

Simon
Fictionwise Support Team

I hope the refund comes through as quickly as they removed my remaining $10 coupon codes and changed the expiration date!

^ I can't see them refunding MP dollars, for the most part the are like 'bonus' dollars. hopefully you didn't pay cash for any.

I've got to figure out how to use my balance and use it quick. Things don't feel right here.It does seem appallingly likely that they won't refund anything for Micropay balances, at least without being specifically asked (seems like they'd have to offer some such option for people who bought Micropay directly - and I doubt they'll bother to have a separate policy for them). Or maybe they could offer Ereader or B&N credit instead? At any rate, the situation does smell "off" enough to make me go buy a couple of trashy mysteries just now, so my micropay is down to $1.45.

P.S. And a couple of short stories brings it to $0.05. Has anyone managed to make it come out even?

If you read on Fictionwise's MicroPay Help page (https://www.fictionwise.com/help/MicropayFAQ.htm) at the very bottom it states:

If I decide I no longer want to buy eBooks from Fictionwise, can I get my account money back?
Sure! Send an email to support@fictionwise.com and tell us your login id and email address, and ask us for a refund. We'll get it out to you within 60 days.

MDB,

Great find and great post. I sent some karma your way. Might I suggest you start a new post with this headline??

Don

I decided today to try to run down my micropay rebates as I had a huge balance on it.

Two things I found out - there are very limited titles available now that the 5 majors have pulled their books (which sucks!) and they have started using technology which checks your location against your IP address, so even if you have a legit US address but you are accessing from a different country, it will come back with a message saying that your actual location and your address on the system do not match.

Between the geographic restrictions on books, the IP address checking and the limited titles, it was a push just to be able to use my micropay.

They certainly are not making it easy for someone to spend money with them, are they?

I'm sure FW must really be suffering from dropped sales.

Even the title selections for what's new and their 100% micropay rebates are terrible. It used to be that there was always at least 1 of the 4 100% micropay rebates books I would want to get right away and take advantage of the rebate but now there is nothing.

I'm just going to try to use up my micropay rebates as quickly as possible and then I'm not going back to FW again. It's just too bad as I have been a faithful customer for years.

It all started going downhill after the B&N purchase. Doesn't B&N realise that we are now living in a global economy? Don't they know that (1) the world is not the US only and (2) people from other parts of the world would like to buy from them too, if they only let them. What are they afraid of?

I have worked by micropay rebates down to 13c. I don't think I could get it any lower than that.

Good bye, Fictionwise.

If you read on Fictionwise's MicroPay Help page (https://www.fictionwise.com/help/MicropayFAQ.htm) at the very bottom it states:

Good find. Though I wonder if they distinguish between micropay dollars that were bought for cash vs. ones that were 'bonused', as that whole micropay account faq talks about funding your micropay account will real dollars - doesn't talk at all about the dollars you get when buying books..

Well, it looks like I'm down to just one that won't download now...

Yep, I made a similar request yesterday, and just received this response:

Karen,

Okay, I've asked our financial department to send the $104.95 (equal to 124.95 minus 20.00) back to your credit card.

Due to industry changes, our content suppliers are currently unable to offer certain titles from several large publishers. We are working with our content partners to resolve this.

Best Regards,

Simon
Fictionwise Support Team

I hope the refund comes through as quickly as they removed my remaining $10 coupon codes and changed the expiration date!

Well, I made the request on the 28th, received the response on the 29th, and the credit showed on my card on the 30th. I'm certainly not complaining, but I am a little surprised that they're in that much of a hurry to give the money back! :headscratch:

Random House added Rex Stout books this week. The MSRP was a crazy $15 to $19 for books that are over 50 years old. However, I have wanted this series for ages and with the day one discounts and rebates and the 20% coupon they have going it was worth it. Of course I pay for them and they are unavailable for download. Really have to wonder about old Fictionwise.

Random House added Rex Stout books this week. The MSRP was a crazy $15 to $19 for books that are over 50 years old. However, I have wanted this series for ages and with the day one discounts and rebates and the 20% coupon they have going it was worth it. Of course I pay for them and they are unavailable for download. Really have to wonder about old Fictionwise.

They're available for pre-order at Amazon too. Publication date? 14th January, 2015!

They're available for pre-order at Amazon too. Publication date? 14th January, 2015!
Awesome. Fictionwise usually clearly lists when a book is a preorder. They had these listed like they were for sale immediately.

Checked these on the Random House site and they should be available as of 4/28. There are a few more coming up for sale on 5/5.

$15 to $19 is also the trade paperback price on these. Have I missed something? How can old series like Nero Wolfe and Fletch be in this price range on paperback? Are they trying this hard to kill the book industry?

Yesterday, 36000+ titles were available and today it's 46,000+ titles. More of my secure titles from my bookshelf are available for download. Looks like some progress is happening.

Random House added Rex Stout books this week. The MSRP was a crazy $15 to $19 for books that are over 50 years old. However, I have wanted this series for ages and with the day one discounts and rebates and the 20% coupon they have going it was worth it. Of course I pay for them and they are unavailable for download. Really have to wonder about old Fictionwise.

You're kidding! Well presumably not, but that's outrageous.

I'd seen them too and decided that the price was just too much even with the discounts and added them to my wishlist. Now I know not to bother buying them.

(I did see there were a very few Rex Stout titles with a different publisher at about $6 less discounts and multiformat)

$15 to $19 is also the trade paperback price on these. Have I missed something? How can old series like Nero Wolfe and Fletch be in this price range on paperback? Are they trying this hard to kill the book industry?

Isn't that a normal price for trade paperback? And it is logical. The new edition is only for some new reader or for old readers that want to have a nice edition. If you are happy with an ordinary paperback just buy it used.

Yesterday, 36000+ titles were available and today it's 46,000+ titles. More of my secure titles from my bookshelf are available for download. Looks like some progress is happening.

You are lucky. I am still missing 69 secure titles that I had never downloaded, including 43 from the Agatha Christie sale in February. The rest were bought in the week or so prior to March 31. The email confirmation on all said they would be available on my bookshelf for at least 3 months. Each time I contact Fictionwise support I just get a generic response that they are working on it. I sure hope this gets resolved soon. :(

I'm still missing 1 out of 11 ePubs and 73 out of 164 eReader titles. (Can't check my lit titles until I work around the issues with running Microsoft Reader on Win7 64 bit. Can only run the 2.0 version not the *latest* and must use IEx86 for activation and downloads.)

I was missing approximately 25% more titles before today so it is an improvement, however slight it may be.

Seems strange about the eReader titles. IIRC FW/BN owns the eReader format and those (and the multi-format) are the ones downloaded from their own servers.

The ereader titles that I can't download are from Penguin, Harper-Collins, and MacMillan. Fictionwise owns the format but not the content.