View Full Version : For Those Of You Worried About Privacy...


Xanthe
03-28-2010, 12:40 AM
...you've lost that battle a long time ago without even knowing you were fighting in the war.

There was a previous thread about privacy that got derailed before I could add these two cents about the subject. Basically what I wanted to say was that those of you who are hesitant about buying a Kindle due to Amazon's privacy policy really need to know that any information Amazon can sell about you is probably already available from multiple other sources. So don't let that be the deciding factor regarding your purchase.

Those of you interested in exactly what information can be accessed easily about you should check out this video of a lecture by a private investigator. I found it very interesting, and confirmed a lot of what I suspected about what information is available out there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1634316293369601334#

lene1949
03-28-2010, 03:18 AM
...you've lost that battle a long time ago without even knowing you were fighting in the war.

There was a previous thread about privacy that got derailed before I could add these two cents about the subject. Basically what I wanted to say was that those of you who are hesitant about buying a Kindle due to Amazon's privacy policy really need to know that any information Amazon can sell about you is probably already available from multiple other sources. So don't let that be the deciding factor regarding your purchase.

Those of you interested in exactly what information can be accessed easily about you should check out this video of a lecture by a private investigator. I found it very interesting, and confirmed a lot of what I suspected about what information is available out there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1634316293369601334#

Thanks... :) I'll watch it, when I have an hour to spare... :bookworm:

Fat Abe
03-28-2010, 05:42 AM
Steve Rambam put the finger on Amazon, Google, Paypal, Ebay, Skype, Myspace, Facebook, Yahoo, Monster, etc. Nice to know they're reading all my posts and emails, or monitoring my location, whenever I'm online. Dear officer: I did not run a red light at 10 PM tonight, because mobileread detected I was reading a forum post. Can I get an alibi?

Good post, Xanthe. I hope you don't get accused of wearing a tin foil hat by Amazon worshipper. LOL.

Iphinome
03-28-2010, 06:07 AM
Hmm it seems like the bots he's talking about that search and store information and then sell it are violating your copyrights on any information you happen to type. Class action lawsuit for massive DMCA violations anyone? I didn't make these stupid copyright laws why not show the government exactly what kind of genie they let out of the bottle.

kindlekitten
03-28-2010, 10:19 AM
Steve Rambam put the finger on Amazon, Google, Paypal, Ebay, Skype, Myspace, Facebook, Yahoo, Monster, etc. Nice to know they're reading all my posts and emails, or monitoring my location, whenever I'm online. Dear officer: I did not run a red light at 10 PM tonight, because mobileread detected I was reading a forum post. Can I get an alibi?

Good post, Xanthe. I hope you don't get accused of wearing a tin foil hat by Amazon worshipper. LOL.

I never said they didn't do data collection. they cannot look at stuff not purchased from Amazon on a Kindle. XXXXX.

and thanks for the dig on the name. it came about more or less as a joke. which you would know if you bothered to pay attention

Patricia
03-28-2010, 01:29 PM
We've had a number of complaints about the language in the post above, so I've edited it to comply with our posting guidelines. Personal insults are not on. Feel free to disagree with ideas, preferably in a courteous way.

Steven Lyle Jordan
03-28-2010, 01:48 PM
Dear officer: I did not run a red light at 10 PM tonight, because mobileread detected I was reading a forum post. Can I get an alibi?

Sorry, you could have been texting from the driver's seat. Pay the laddie at the door.

kindlekitten
03-28-2010, 02:21 PM
We've had a number of complaints about the language in the post above, so I've edited it to comply with our posting guidelines. Personal insults are not on. Feel free to disagree with ideas, preferably in a courteous way.

but insulting me is ok? nice!!!!!:angry:

and for the record, I didn't even swear. gotta love the double standards around here.

Bilbo1967
03-28-2010, 02:24 PM
but insulting me is ok? nice!!!!!:angry:

But that would be freedom of speech surely. Aren't you quite keen on that? Or is that only for you?

kindlekitten
03-28-2010, 02:28 PM
But that would be freedom of speech surely. Aren't you quite keen on that? Or is that only for you?

no, I'm the one that gets censored.

never mind.

I'm done

Bilbo1967
03-28-2010, 02:38 PM
no, I'm the one that gets censored.

never mind.

I'm done

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the censorship of your post. However, to respond to that by calling for more censorship seems anomalous from somebody whose signature line extols the virtues of free speech.

Xanthe
03-28-2010, 02:47 PM
Steve Rambam put the finger on Amazon, Google, Paypal, Ebay, Skype, Myspace, Facebook, Yahoo, Monster, etc. Nice to know they're reading all my posts and emails, or monitoring my location, whenever I'm online. Dear officer: I did not run a red light at 10 PM tonight, because mobileread detected I was reading a forum post. Can I get an alibi?

Good post, Xanthe. I hope you don't get accused of wearing a tin foil hat by Amazon worshipper. LOL.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Amazon; I'm one of their Vine Reviewers. I've also been putting reviews and lists up there for years. I've never bought any underwear from them so they don't know the color of that, but I imagine they know just about everything else. :D

They've taken a lot of my money over the years and will continue to do so in the future. I knew going in that my purchases would be in a database forever, and would probably be sold. I've reached an age where I refuse to be ashamed or embarassed by anything I do or have done; there are too many other things in life to angst over. ;)

If I had a Kindle, I wouldn't worry about them knowing what non-Kindle files I had on it, as kindlekitten has pointed out, since their access is limited to the data purchased from them. Nor would I worry about them sucking back my purchases; what happened was an isolated incident affecting a very limited number of purchasers, and their payments were refunded. To me that is not a big deal. Besides, if I consider a book important enough, I'm going to buy the physical book, not an ebook.

Besides, if I was putting sensitive documents or work documents on a reader, I would make sure that they were encrypted first, and if the reader doesn't support encryption, I wouldn't use it for such a purpose - I'd use a netbook instead.

It just seems to me, from reading various posts on the forum - and not singling out any posters because I don't know any of you very well - that some people get caught up with the minutia of privacy issues, not realizing that the point is really moot. :)

For those interested, there is a part two of that video available on Google Videos.

delphidb96
03-28-2010, 06:10 PM
...you've lost that battle a long time ago without even knowing you were fighting in the war.

There was a previous thread about privacy that got derailed before I could add these two cents about the subject. Basically what I wanted to say was that those of you who are hesitant about buying a Kindle due to Amazon's privacy policy really need to know that any information Amazon can sell about you is probably already available from multiple other sources. So don't let that be the deciding factor regarding your purchase.

Those of you interested in exactly what information can be accessed easily about you should check out this video of a lecture by a private investigator. I found it very interesting, and confirmed a lot of what I suspected about what information is available out there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1634316293369601334#


Yeahbut. You see, all of these privacy fears can be readily solved by a judicious application of .45 caliber copper-jacketed lead to the head of each and every CEO and senior staff who chooses to invade personal privacy that way. :D

Derek

DawnFalcon
03-28-2010, 06:55 PM
...you've lost that battle a long time ago without even knowing you were fighting in the war.

Simply because you chose to "hang your ass out online" doesn't mean everyone chooses to, and each and every single instance remains a multiple to the risk of your personal data being compromised. Some of us are perfectly aware of the issues, despite what I'm afraid I can only call propaganda otherwise.

Look: Overly broad privacy policies are, in general, a warning sign, and it costs very little for a company to fix them. There is nothing in the Amazon Kindle user agreement which states that they only store information about items they've sold you, if they can only technically do that, then why not put that in the user agreement?

It's hardly a moot point for anyone who's even marginally sensitive to privacy issues in general. It's a great way for a company to show their cooperation with the community, for starters, by having a sensible and limited privacy policy!

any information Amazon can sell about you is probably already available from multiple other sources. So don't let that be the deciding factor regarding your purchase.

So do you respond to unsubscribe addresses on spam? I mean, by your reasoning you shouldn't be worried about doing so.

pilotbob
03-28-2010, 07:09 PM
but insulting me is ok? nice!!!!!:angry:

and for the record, I didn't even swear. gotta love the double standards around here.

No one should be insulting anyone. The rules apply to all.

BOb
Moderator

HorridRedDog
03-28-2010, 07:18 PM
....

It just seems to me, from reading various posts on the forum - and not singling out any posters because I don't know any of you very well - that some people get caught up with the minutia of privacy issues, not realizing that the point is really moot. :)

....

Yes. But WE do know everything about you. Can you please turn on another light? :bulb2: It's getting dark in your room and WE prefer recording you in color.:bam:

This kind of thing has been going on for the last 60 years (& probably longer).

"A paranoid person is the only person that is capable of understanding ALL of the things that they can do if they want to. Of course they are crazy 'cause nobody cares about them."

Ralph Sir Edward
03-28-2010, 07:20 PM
Yeahbut. You see, all of these privacy fears can be readily solved by a judicious application of .45 caliber copper-jacketed lead to the head of each and every CEO and senior staff who chooses to invade personal privacy that way. :D

Derek


That's not very nice....I prefer to put their bonuses and stock options in the critics lounge at the end of Heinlein's Number of the Beast.

Xanthe
03-28-2010, 07:47 PM
Simply because you chose to "hang your ass out online" doesn't mean everyone chooses to, and each and every single instance remains a multiple to the risk of your personal data being compromised. Some of us are perfectly aware of the issues, despite what I'm afraid I can only call propaganda otherwise.

My point was that you don't have the choice anymore, whether or not you carefully read each EULA or Privacy notice. The information about you is already out there and is constantly being built upon. So it's not a matter of "hanging my ass out online", which I don't do, by the way. I take sensible precautions with my identity and personal information online. But I realize that everytime I make an online purchase or use a credit/debit card - since I'm using my real identity - that's another bit of data added to whatever record exists on me.

Look: Overly broad privacy policies are, in general, a warning sign, and it costs very little for a company to fix them. There is nothing in the Amazon Kindle user agreement which states that they only store information about items they've sold you, if they can only technically do that, then why not put that in the user agreement?

It's hardly a moot point for anyone who's even marginally sensitive to privacy issues in general. It's a great way for a company to show their cooperation with the community, for starters, by having a sensible and limited privacy policy!

They don't say that they are accessing other information either, do they? So the presumption can go either way. Sorry, but even if a company says they are keeping everything private and safe, I just take it to mean that at that moment everything is private and safe. I don't extrapolate that that situation will be the same six months from now.


So do you respond to unsubscribe addresses on spam? I mean, by your reasoning you shouldn't be worried about doing so.

No, that's not my reasoning. It's a matter of choosing winnable battles rather than banging my head against the wall. I don't see spam because of spam filters. I also use throwaway email addresses that I never check.

Xanthe
03-28-2010, 07:53 PM
Yes. But WE do know everything about you. Can you please turn on another light? :bulb2: It's getting dark in your room and WE prefer recording you in color.:bam:




Actually, I have the webcam on my laptop disabled for just that reason. ;)

Really though, I have it turned off because I don't use it, or instant messaging or have a Facebook page, or....

DawnFalcon
03-28-2010, 07:54 PM
They don't say that they are accessing other information either, do they? So the presumption can go either way. Sorry, but even if a company says they are keeping everything private and safe, I just take it to mean that at that moment everything is private and safe. I don't extrapolate that that situation will be the same six months from now.

Yes, but the agreement doesn't say they're not allowed to. It's about best practice, not about ideal situations!

It's a matter of choosing winnable battles rather than banging my head against the wall.

Sure, and this is one of them - there are alternatives to the Kindle which may well suit you better, and the privacy policy is one of many elements to consider. There is, quite simply, room for improvement on Amazon's part.

Fat Abe
03-28-2010, 08:58 PM
Oh my, I must have missed the brouhaha. Kitten, you can call me anything you want. As long as it is written with the wit of an Oscar Wilde.

Amazon is a wild place. There are things I love and hate about it. Why do they keep suggesting Kindle store photography books to me, when I have not purchased a single one? The ones I sampled were terrible. If anyone had bothered to sit through the Steve Rambam lecture, they would heard him explain the law of unintended data use (at the 34 minute mark). To this, let us add, the principle of misconstrued data use. If I choose to sample all books on the John Birch Society, does this make me a vehement conservative? Hah, it is time for some misdirection. Let me browse Amazon's books on libertarianism, oligarchy, plutocracy, aristocracy, social democracy, communism, and fascism. I'll bet that each and every political action committee would love to buy my email address from Amazon. In an Orwellian society, would the authorities consider me a friend or enemy? Keep 'em guessing, Schizo Abe. He receives junk mail from the tobacco companies and the cancer societies. No, I do not smoke! Please update your databases, all of you private data collection agencies.

Well, what do I like about Amazon? Answer- The book reviews and comments. I love the thrust and parry. Followed by occasional vitriol that flows from argument to argument. Case in point: reviews of the book, "The Quants: How a New Breed of Math Whizzes Conquered Wall Street and Nearly Destroyed It", by Scott Patterson. As topical as you can get, for who does not have a direct or indirect interest in money? The battleground of the 21st century is not the arena of physical violence, but the realm of words. Bless you Jeff Bezos, for it is better to duel with words than pistols and swords.

HorridRedDog
03-29-2010, 07:28 PM
Actually, I have the webcam on my laptop disabled for just that reason. ;)

Really though, I have it turned off because I don't use it, or instant messaging or have a Facebook page, or....

I can't believe that!!!

Another person who thinks that they can "turn off" the laptop camera.:rofl::rofl:

WE know of a person with a sticker over his laptop lens.

WE just replaced it with a see thru sticker like you see on buses.

P.S. - if you look closely my dog is watching all of you.