View Full Version : Amazon E Ink reader?


CommanderROR
09-11-2006, 12:13 PM
Good new everyone!

I Just found this on Engadget.com:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/11/amazon-kindle-meet-amazons-e-book-reader/

It Looks like Amazon is going for the eink front. With a major player like this, the whole ebook process could very well pick up quite a bit of speed.
The rather odd-looking device is named "Kindle" and seems to have all the necessary features onboard. details are still a bit sketchy, but our valued member DHer has found a link to the FCC approval and the manual, so at least some information is already available.
This new player on the ever-growing ebook market also includes some nifty features like a cover and a reading lamp right out of the box if the manual is to be believed!

Now I guess the big questions are "WHEN" and "HOW MUCH"!

Edit: While the information seemed to have been pulled from FCC, you can still find the manual in this thread

DHer
09-11-2006, 12:32 PM
yeah.

And except for it's retro-scifi-look (i don't know a better word to describe it), this might speed things up. I mean, amazon should be just the right one to flock content for an ebook reader.

All the FCC files:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=771214&fcc_id=
And the manual:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=703039&native_or_pdf=pdf

Btw: the manual shows it ships with a cover and a reading light, unlike the iliad ;)

Edit: Reading light means it is eInk AND it also has a mobile data service (EVDO, seems to be something american) so you can buy and get content *everywhere*

That's really, really cool.

CommanderROR
09-11-2006, 12:35 PM
Thanks for posting the links DHer!

The Kindle as this (ugly) thing is called comes with a reading light...that's a really nice idea...^^

NatCh
09-11-2006, 12:40 PM
"Interesting" that's one word for it, CommanderROR.

The thing is supposed to have a wireless modem, FAA may not like that, but I see it has an off switch.

I can't find anything else on it in Google or Ask....

The link on the picture (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=771214&fcc_id=) goes to some interesting files -- there's already a stinkin' manual posted there.

Apparently they've been paying attention, from the list of box contents, page v: "Reading light (including a protective cover and three AAA batteries)" (I had to re-type it, so any variation is due to that :mad: ). And it has a cover.

There's a comment about changing the battery.
Apparently the SD card slot is not external (under a cover).
And the Reset switch too (it's still a pinhole switch, under the cover).


You can read the rest for yourselves (43 pages), but it looks like they may be pretty far along on this rascal.

DHer
09-11-2006, 12:41 PM
Ok, i revoke everything:

Formats natively supported are: .AZW, .PRC, .MOBI, .MP3 and .TXT

that's not so cool.

800x600, 6", with 4 gray levels sounds like first generation eInk, though.

don't forget to check out: http://www.amazon.com/help/kindle every now and then. Until now there nothing online in there, but it's mentioned in the manual. :)

seems like we have a tendency to double post :P

TadW
09-11-2006, 12:44 PM
Heh, .MOBI doesn't come as a surprise given Amazon's recent commitment to the Mobipocket format.

DHer, the Sony Reader has similar screen properties, but according to Sony, it has a bettery E Ink screen than the Librie.

Btw, someone should add this ugly baby to the matrix (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_Reader_Matrix).

NatCh
09-11-2006, 12:47 PM
I hadn't seen the list of supported formats yet, DHer, but I do see a comment that you can 'convert' your own files.

The licensing section (ironically "section 8") of the manual is ... interesting reading.

NatCh
09-11-2006, 12:51 PM
seems like we have a tendency to double post :PA hazard of excitement, I expect. :happy2:

DHer
09-11-2006, 12:59 PM
ok, added the information to the matrix.

and, well, it wasn't me who found the stuff at the fcc. That was completely engadget's work.

Kudos to them.

NatCh
09-11-2006, 01:00 PM
battery pic -- 1530 mAh.

The Internal Photos (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=703027&native_or_pdf=pdf) file is extremely interesting. Wish I knew what an "AnyDATA" was.

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 01:09 PM
Kindle?

Thinking of burning away the paper format?

NatCh
09-11-2006, 01:16 PM
Kindle?

Thinking of burning away the paper format?I was thinking they might mean to suggest that this will start a fire, as a metaphor for changing to e-books. They're probably a bit late to claim starting that particular fire, but it admittedly has been only smoldering for quite a while.

It also looks like they mean for it to be about as "open" as a lump of wood, but I guess that's what metaphorical log-splitters are for. :happy2:


Ah, apparently the AnyDATA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anydata) is the wireless modem.

Alexander Turcic
09-11-2006, 01:20 PM
Kindle could also be a noun and mean something like "the young one" (attachment is from the OED).

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 01:21 PM
They might be late for the Iliad but they still have a chance for the Sony, and that Star Trek thing has a keyboard. E-mail possibilities? :huh:

NatCh
09-11-2006, 01:27 PM
em. I lifted a pic from the PDF, but I'm not sure how to get it into the matrix without trashing it. :(

It's not a very good pic, but it might do for now, that is, if someone who knows what they're doing would be interested in adding it. :grin2:

Edit: Nevermind, firgured it out, and I don't think I broke anything!

rjnagle
09-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Strange that it has no support for PDF. I guess they have some sort of conversion program on the desktop component.

Is it THAT difficult to have an ebook reader capable of supporting both a OEBPSish kind of file and a PDFish kind of file?

NatCh
09-11-2006, 01:31 PM
They might be late for the Iliad but they still have a chance for the Sony....Whether they beat the Sony will depend a lot on how close Amazon is to popping this rascal.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they won't be lauching the Kindle before the end of October (Sony's expected time-frame), but they may well beat the HanLin V2. :beam:

DHer
09-11-2006, 01:34 PM
The producer seems to be Hon Hai Precision Industries (aka Foxconn).

You know, the company with the slogan "free speech? we've heard about it".
l'Inq about it http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=34040

I don't think it's about beating or not beating. We should be happy that they might get ebooks right this time, so we don't have to wait another 5-10 years (again)

NatCh
09-11-2006, 01:43 PM
Strange that it has no support for PDF. I guess they have some sort of conversion program on the desktop component.

Is it THAT difficult to have an ebook reader capable of supporting both a OEBPSish kind of file and a PDFish kind of file?The manual doesn't say much on it, but page 15 mentions that "You can also convert and transfer personal MSWord, PDF, and other documents." (emphasis, mine)


I don't think it's about beating or not beating. We should be happy that they might get ebooks right this time, so we don't have to wait another 5-10 years (again)That gets a great big 'Amen' from me!

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 01:47 PM
Imagine Amazon doing e-book sales? Their site is major and operational not a newbie.

Sony should have delivered it's product sooner, now they lost their edge.

Maybe Amazon is hyping to get us to consider their offering. It's not the first time a company deliberately lets out info about a possible contender... :vulcan:

TadW
09-11-2006, 01:49 PM
You may be right, but in this case it was the FCC who leaked out the specs, and Engadget is known to spend their free time on FCC's website looking for unreleased information ;-)

bingle
09-11-2006, 01:56 PM
Imagine Amazon doing e-book sales? Their site is major and operational not a newbie.

Sony should have delivered it's product sooner, now they lost their edge.

Yeah, Amazon has the book sales thing down pat, but their hardware design team could use some inspiration... I mean, yuck. That thing is *ugly*. And they seem to be creating something that's only for reading Amazon books.

I still think there's room for other ebook devices to compete. We certainly haven't seen the perfect ebook reader announced yet...

rjnagle
09-11-2006, 01:57 PM
I doubt they are aiming for Christmas 2006. It doesn't make sense to keep it under wraps for so long. Sony Reader has captured a lot of advance publicity; my guess is summer 2007.

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 01:58 PM
Does Apple sell design services ?

Star Trek :vulcan: went of the airways long ago!

DHer
09-11-2006, 02:14 PM
That's not even remotely Star Trek.

Star Trek is PADDs with color display and way less frame.

That's Battlestar Galactica or Raumpatrollie Orion (strange black'n'white german scifi)

concerning "perfect" ebook reader: Until now the iliad beats all the other readers hands down. (well, except the price)

NatCh
09-11-2006, 02:22 PM
Until now the iliad beats all the other readers hands down.Considering that there are no other e-ink readers on the market at the moment, I agree with you. :laugh4:

I also agree that the Kindle is more like 70's Battlestar Galactica. :)

Mediamania
09-11-2006, 03:11 PM
Any chance of someone posting the PDF of the Amazon Kindle user manual? Seems it's no longer on the FCC site, mysteriously enough, or the link cited above (on page 1 of this thread) isn't working. Many thanks!

NatCh
09-11-2006, 03:17 PM
Well, butter my backside and call me a biscuit -- they seem to have shut it down.

How fortunate that I happened to pull a copy onto my hard drive. :beam:

Unfortunately, I didn't pull copies of the photos, those were interesting. :(

Addition: Some of the stuff seems to still be there, but they have, indeed, pulled the manual and the photos. (sigh)

Liviu_5
09-11-2006, 03:26 PM
My question now is when we are going to see a Google ebook reader. The trend in online content seems to be that the physical stuff (devices, peripherals, high speed access) is where the real money is, since digital content is becoming more and more available at unbeatable prices (0$!!).

Liviu

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 03:30 PM
I could'nt open the one you posted NatCh so I'm posting my copy and the one with the pictures.

Mediamania
09-11-2006, 03:33 PM
Many thanks for posting the manual. Anyone grab the pictures before someone in Seattle called and had them pulled?

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 03:33 PM
The one with the pictures is 2.25megs. It will not upload because of the 1meg limit. Anyone know how I can work around this?

NatCh
09-11-2006, 03:48 PM
The only thing that comes to mind is to screen cap each page and post them as pong files (PNG -- I call them that in honor of the Pioneer), or some other compressed variant. :shrug:

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 03:53 PM
I only have reader installed

yvanleterrible
09-11-2006, 04:04 PM
I tried to open it with Photoshop. It refuses because of a security lock. There is a security signature preventing extraction and copying content.

NatCh
09-11-2006, 04:09 PM
Open it in Adobe Reader and do Ctrl+Print Screen to get a screen capture of each individual page. :)

Or do you have a MacPuter? I don't know how to do a screen capture on MacPuters.... :blink:

lordvetinari2
09-11-2006, 04:44 PM
Oh dear, even the manual is ugly! A5-sized pages printed as A4, and all the images have bitmapped text. Doesn't say much for an ebook reader, I'd think.

This thing looks like a prop from the original HHGG TV miniseries (c'me on, someone say another TV series, this is fun!). I don't care much about design: I don't own anything Applish, but this is just plain stupid. I don't really need a keyboard, either, and that occupies too much room.

Oh Sony, where(fore) art thou, Sony?

NatCh
09-11-2006, 04:47 PM
I've been thinking about the ... odd format of the manual -- my theory on it is that they mean the text part (minus the margins) to be the size of the screen. :shrug:

Okay, how about Lost in Space?

NatCh
09-11-2006, 05:19 PM
It just occured to me that the way the side edges slant in toward the top face might make this thing a bit annoying to pick up from a flat surface.

pitcher23
09-11-2006, 05:35 PM
Now that Amazon owns Mobipocket, I hope this new device of theirs doesn't kill any chance of Mobi being available for the Iliad.

TadW
09-11-2006, 06:04 PM
Now think about how smart it would be if iRex approached Amazon and told them "dump that ugly duckling and get our iLiad instead"... we'd see lot's of happy iLiad customers with a big e-book retailer supporting them, and a happy iRex company for selling lots and lots of devices.

bingle
09-11-2006, 06:28 PM
Oh dear, even the manual is ugly! A5-sized pages printed as A4, and all the images have bitmapped text. Doesn't say much for an ebook reader, I'd think.

This thing looks like a prop from the original HHGH TV miniseries (c'me on, someone say another TV series, this is fun!). I don't care much about design: I don't own anything Applish, but this is just plain stupid. I don't really need a keyboard, either, and that occupies too much room.

Oh Sony, where(fore) art thou, Sony?


On the other hand, though, reading the manual, Amazon seems to have made some good decisions. They included a cover, you can change the battery (although it does seem proprietary...), and of course the content is king. Also, in black-and-white manual drawings, with the cover on, you can almost forget it looks like the early '80s ;-)

The choice to go with EVDO instead of WiFi is... confusing. Cell service is certainly more widely available, but EVDO is still fairly rare, I believe. Wifi, on the other hand, is becoming prevalent very quickly.

Also, of course, this is about the worst example I can imagine of the "platform" model that I rant about every chance I get ;-) I can't imagine Amazon is invested in making the best reading hardware possible; they're just trying to sell more books. And that's evident in the formats they support and the fact that they require conversion before reading popular formats like DOC and PDF.

The fact that Amazon is getting into the hardware business, though, gives me hope that the e-reader market will become a hot battleground. Maybe then we'll see some better options.

segatang
09-11-2006, 09:42 PM
It looks like some space craft in "STARTREK".
It is powerful, not bad.

Mediamania
09-11-2006, 09:52 PM
Interestingly, ALL the files posted regarding this device earlier today on the FCC site have now been removed. There's now a "Request for Dismissal" letter from a Florida engineering firm -- identified as a firm specializing in FCC approvals -- stating as follows:

"We would like to request the following application to be dismissed due to problems with confidential exhibits listed on the website and updated exhibits the applicant wishes to provide in place of exhibits that have been submitted for this filing."

Hmmmm. For all that disclosed information to be pulled seems unusual. And for Amazon to withdraw their application seems odd, if it means starting the FCC approval process over again.

Is this a PR move? Or is there something else going on here? Anyone with expertise in these matters (FCC disclosure) have any insights?

hkabir
09-11-2006, 09:54 PM
Hi DaHer,

The link for manual is not working. Did they remove the pdf manual? Does anyone have the manual saved when it was available? It would be great if someone upload the manual for others who missed it. Definitely I'm one of them.

hkabir
09-11-2006, 10:06 PM
Apparently, amazon have prepared a webspace for Kindle. If you go to amazon site: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/kindle you can't see anything yet, but seems like the contents are not ready yet.

NatCh
09-11-2006, 11:30 PM
The link for manual is not working. Did they remove the pdf manual? Does anyone have the manual saved when it was available? It would be great if someone upload the manual for others who missed it. Definitely I'm one of them.Hey, hkabir, there are a couple of versions posted on the previous page (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7569&page=2&pp=20) of this thread. :beam:

Enjoy!

Ebook lover
09-11-2006, 11:59 PM
PVI (http://www.pvi.com.tw) is providing the E-ink panel

NatCh
09-12-2006, 12:13 AM
I'm guessing this doesn't bode well for Amazon beating Sony to market .... :grin2:

DHer
09-12-2006, 02:28 AM
Pulling the fcc application just because it leaked?

That sounds quite unbelievable.

But we'll see what the future brings.

Alexander Turcic
09-12-2006, 04:25 AM
Pulling the fcc application just because it leaked?

That sounds quite unbelievable.

But we'll see what the future brings.
I think it happened before. Sometimes the FCC publishes information that they weren't meant to.

TadW
09-12-2006, 04:32 AM
Is it real? Well, that's always the big question when you start discussing prototypes someone stumbled across on the web. A big hint that it might mean something popped up not long after the news broke, when the FCC page was abruptly pulled (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=771214&fcc_id=). In its place, a filing (PDF (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=703335&native_or_pdf=pdf)) has been posted, requesting dismissal of the product "due to problems with confidential exhibits listed on the website."

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060911-7716.html

yokos
09-12-2006, 05:54 AM
Family of e-reader devices get's larger again. This is a good news. :wink:

yvanleterrible
09-12-2006, 10:07 AM
It just occured to me that the way the side edges slant in toward the top face might make this thing a bit annoying to pick up from a flat surface.

When you look at the pictures in the manual, its obvious that it was designed to fit in a notebook. :uhoh2: At least since it does'nt grab your eye it makes it less likely to be stolen in a library.
The thing is ugly and made to be used on a table, not at all like the other readers. The keyboard is not well implemented but its a usefull feature to me.

The designer was surely discovered in a bomb shelter somewhere, where he's been hiding since the seventies. :happy2:

NatCh
09-12-2006, 11:32 AM
Netscape.com has an article (http://gadgets.netscape.com/story/2006/09/11/amazon-kindle-meet-amazons-e-book-reader-engadget) on this. Nothing we don't already know more about on the hardware, but they have an interview with Engadget Editor Ryan Block, in which he confirms that they found this by sifting the FCC site.

A couple of the other comments are of middlin' interest too.

yvanleterrible
09-12-2006, 04:04 PM
I think it happened before. Sometimes the FCC publishes information that they weren't meant to.

Maybe the documents were only for internal comm.

Pulling the fcc application just because it leaked?

That sounds quite unbelievable.

But we'll see what the future brings.

I just hope that its because the innards were Fcc tested and that a final design was not set.

Who knows how long it takes between FCC testing and final release? :blink:

leandroide
09-12-2006, 05:44 PM
I just hope that its because the innards were Fcc tested and that a final design was not set.


Well... I don't know, but reading the manual you get the impression that the product is absolutely mature. There is a sentence (page 8) that says "If you haven't already done so, remove the power adapter from the left-hand side of the Kindle box". That means that even the internal distribution of the elements in the package are decided!

NatCh
09-12-2006, 05:54 PM
Before they pulled the files, there was a lovely batch of pix if the internals of the box. They looked pretty solid to me. Nothing was glued in place, anyway. :tongue3:

bingle
09-12-2006, 07:07 PM
Well... I don't know, but reading the manual you get the impression that the product is absolutely mature. There is a sentence (page 8) that says "If you haven't already done so, remove the power adapter from the left-hand side of the Kindle box". That means that even the internal distribution of the elements in the package are decided!


Yeah, the impression I got from reading the manual was the same: they were ready to ship at that moment. I'm sure that's not actually the case, but it certainly seems more like months or weeks away rather than years.

Either that, or they just have very good speculative manual writers ;-)

scotty1024
09-13-2006, 12:35 AM
electrophoretic describes how e-ink works so its an e-ink device. Panel seems equivalent to Librie's from the pictures.

I guess we can now scratch any chance of a mobi license for iRex right off the hopes and dreams list. :D

The engadget pictures in the wild of the Sony Reader panel make it look stunningly better than the iLiad to my eye... The Sony UI is looking pretty nifty too.

lordvetinari2
09-13-2006, 02:43 AM
Either that, or they just have very good speculative manual writers ;-)

It doesn't cost that much to make changes to a manual, you know. A manual might look more or less ready for printing, and still undergo a month of daily (mostly stupid) changes. It depends how fine they thread (or at least that's the idiom in Spanish!), and how much money they got to burn.

Ken Stuart
09-13-2006, 06:28 PM
There was never anything that ugly on Star Trek. Here are some "real" PADDs:

http://www.moviepropking.com/PADDNOG.jpg

Earlier ones:

http://www.betteredit.com/images/startrekpadd.jpg

http://www.moviepropking.com/LIPADD1.jpg

RWood
11-22-2006, 03:17 PM
Speaking of DRM content and new machines, MicroSoft is introducing a new player this year that is not compatible with their old "Plays For Sure" format. Thus all the people who bought DRM music must now buy it again.

Edit: Mobi may well still be available for other readers to implement. Amazon is in the business of selling content, the more readers that can use Mobi, the more content they can sell. It will be a matter of implementing uniform DRM restrictions more than anything else. Apple on the other hand is in the hardware business and maintains iTunes as a service and a selling point for the iPod, it is not their main line business.

tcv
11-22-2006, 11:25 PM
MS is abandoning PlaysForSure. Well, I don't know that they have said that, but there is no PFS on the new Zune and DRM content wrapped in it won't run on the Zune. So, it seems like its days are numbered.

phuata
11-23-2006, 02:04 AM
I really don't care how it looks, so long as it works, is relatively inexpensive, and is available for purchase in Canada. Looking at the manual (thanks for posting the link to it), it looks like the Kindle allows for text searching, which is a feature I was wishing for in the Sony Reader. In two different places, it lists file types it will open, and the lists are not the same. So long as it opens .pdf, .rtf and .txt, Kindle is looking like one of my preferred choices so far.

kahm
11-29-2006, 09:31 PM
I really don't care how it looks, so long as it works, is relatively inexpensive, and is available for purchase in Canada. Looking at the manual (thanks for posting the link to it), it looks like the Kindle allows for text searching, which is a feature I was wishing for in the Sony Reader. In two different places, it lists file types it will open, and the lists are not the same. So long as it opens .pdf, .rtf and .txt, Kindle is looking like one of my preferred choices so far.

I agree. As long as it's cheap and I can actually buy it (I'm in Canada too), then it can look like anything it wants (short of eating babies and spitting pea soup)