This mail stands for itself:
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:05:24 +0200
From: TechSupport <techsupport@irextechnologies.com>
To: <ali>
Subject: WG: Ticket number: 364

Dear Mr. <ali>,

Probably some files have been damaged/removed, which prevents the iliad to
boot correctly. This is not covered within the warranty.

We can offer a reinstallation. The cost for reinstallation and transport
costs to pick up the iLiad and send him back is 75 euro.

Would you please inform us, if you want your iLiad to be repaired?

Thanks in advance.


Kind regards
<some name>

So if their iDS upgrade process eats my iLiad I'm not covered?

That doesn't sound too wonderful. We're beta testing their product, bad things can and likely will happen, and we get to pick up the bill?

nice...

:sleepy:

same here. Files damaged (cause they let their applications obviously move files and write manifest.xml's everywhere in the Filesystem)= user fault = no warranty = 75 EUR

I want a way to flash that thing myself, or at least a serial console. :furious3:

If they do not provide protection for important system files, i bet, that this will have to be repaired within warranty terms.

Its not our fault, that they let all the applications run as root. Use different users (as mentioned by forum members before) and no harm could have been done.

Since reading files from the internal memory via browser is possible and a known issue, i dont think, they can deny warranty.

Ouch. It's one thing if you fuck up your iliad by trying to implant a back door, but a bug in a documented feature (the directory listing) shouldn't be a reason to make you pay.

I would say it's warranty or, if this doesn't help, follow the gpl violation path. But this would mean that you won't see you iliad back very soon.

I am not sure why they hesitate to release the sources as they should do and allow us to reflash the device ourselves. I don't buy this "we have to clean up the sources first" excuse that's been around for months.

But then again - 75 Euro isn't a bad extra income for them - it's a 10 percent extra in addition to the original purchase price.

I agree, they can't deny warranty. Just put the thread in their forum, that will add some extra pressure and help them to rethink their policies.

This company really needs to learn a LOT .... ;)

ali had that idea already:
http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?t=245

ali had that idea already:
http://forum.irexnet.com/viewtopic.php?t=245


Oooops :) Thanks, missed it.

Is it just me or does Jan's response, read as extremely condescending, and downright rude?

Not to mention the fact that he's essentially saying "To buy you off and stop you complaining so publically, we will push your repair through quick".

--edit--

Sorry I couldn't resist responding to him, and pointing out an obvious flaw in his respose (at least to a novice like me) and call him on the buying you off point.

do you really think that will stop me from complaining, that a local flash update/overwrite (be it from a memory card, usb-stick or over ethernet) or a console of some kind (serial or ethernet), could have avoided all that?

For me this "one-time free rapair" reads like:
We repair it this time for free, so stop poking around in the innards of the system or the next time you will have to pay for sure.

I admit looking through the system files, with the content lister was neither clever nor "daily use". But I still keep my point, that this happened is a flaw in the software concept of the device (running everything as root ...).

I avoid talking to their forum (for obvious reasons, I don't like their sometimes rude voice and I don't like being "accused" of things), so I quote employee Jan here again:

Reading files with standard Linux tools will not harm the iLiad.
What are standard Linux tools? Tools like SSH?

If you create "content" yourselves in order to hack the iLiad you are basicly not using the iLiad for the purpose it is designed for. In a normal user behavior this situation will not happen. That is why the service desk responded as they did.
Can anyone explain me "normal user behavior" and how using a built-in feature can be considered hacking?

I can understand you want your iLiad repaired, but than face the consequences of your actions without pretending you "did not do anything abnormal" and sharing your frustration in many forums since we react as you could have expected.
Yes, dear customer, face the consequences and get rude remarks for your criminal actions.

We will prepare a fix to the ContentLister to prevent these kind of "accidents" and will release this in the coming days for users to download.
Ahh, and suddenly here he talks about a software fix.

I dont post here alot but I dont see Sony having an Development forum where you can communicate openly to engineers... maybe time to be a bit more positive and use this opportunity to work with them instead of against them, before they change their mind.

just my 2cents.

Sony, havn't touted their machine as open for you to write your own applications.

Sony havn't sold the machine early to allow us to pay to be beta testers.

iRex have done all the above, and on top of that, have been downright rude to people pointing out problems in their software.

Yes but Sony published the Librie source in a timely fashion, and has kept publishing it. Plus you can re-flash a Librie with out shipping it back to Japan.

In any case, even if iRex published the sources tomorrow, the lack of re-flash wouldn't be solved.

If they published the sources tomorrow though I can tell you one thing that would happen, they'd get all kinds of source code being sent back to them with bug fixes and enhancements. They really should have thought of that before deciding not to publish the source.

If they had setup a CVS server with the source and invited developers in, with limited check in's... the iLiad would be far more developed and polished today than it is.

I dont post here alot but I dont see Sony having an Development forum where you can communicate openly to engineers...
We hope this to change with the upcoming release of the Sony Reader ;)

You can hope all you like, but I somehow can't see Sony doing it.

Is it just me or does Jan's response, read as extremely condescending, and downright rude?

Yeah, from his reaction I thought he must have written all or part of ContentLister...

I can only imagine that yesterday wasn't a wonderful day at iRex. The Flickr pictures with the glued in WiFi card must have raised a few eyebrows as well.

And speaking of condescending...

I finally reach iRex this morning to get my unit replaced.

Karen: Sorry sir, the engineers decide whether to replace or repair your unit.

Me: I'm told EU laws says I can elect to repair or replace, not your engineer.

Karen: Yes, but it has been more than 7 days?

Me: Yes but it stopped charging last Tuesday and every time I called the number on your web site it said "This number has been disconnected".

Karen: Sir, most Europeans would know not to dial the 0 to call us...

Me: I'm not from Europe, I'm an American. :rolleyes5

Well done, Scotty.

The fact that it has been less than 7 days nonwithstanding, under EU law (http://www.evz.de/UNIQ115602235902144/doc1209A.html), is there really such a 7 days limit?

Me: Yes but it stopped charging last Tuesday and every time I called the number on your web site it said "This number has been disconnected".

Karen: Sir, most Europeans would know not to dial the 0 to call us...

Me: I'm not from Europe, I'm an American.

But why didn't you phone the commercial line and ask "excuse me, what's the support number, since I can't get through on the one indicated?" or... well, many other options for getting the number before now? :huh:

Err, Ok you all know that iRex in't my favorite company atm, and I am loathe to defend them...

But...

If you don't know how to dial an international number (dropping the first 0 is standard) how is that their fault?

Or am I missing something vital?

That said if that was verbatim, it may have been correct, but it's hardly a polite response.

I dont post here alot but I dont see Sony having an Development forum where you can communicate openly to engineers...
We hope this to change with the upcoming release of the Sony Reader ;)
I think I remember hearing somewhere that Sony had a policy barring their folks from participating in forums and such. (shrug)

Salt to taste. :happy2:

But then again, didn't Sony once have a Clie' Developer's Forum?

Perhaps there are exceptions to this no forums policy I think I remember hearing about.

Maybe Alex will turn out to be right on this after all. As he said, we can hope so, anyway. :happy2:

Sony, havn't touted their machine as open for you to write your own applications.

Riocaz, as far as I know they haven’t done that (and I’d rather be wrong on this): they just said that with the free developer SDK you will be able to develop and install your own file readers, not downright run your own arbitrary applications.

Again, I’d much rather be wrong on this, because I would like to be able to run my scripts and apps on the iLiad.

BTW: hello everyone, I just joined this forum, I’m a just another hopeless MobileRead n00b and new iLiad owner (got it yesterday, so far it’s looking very good).

whats a reader if not an application?

First off, welcome, verbosus!
they just said that with the free developer SDK you will be able to develop and install your own file readers, not downright run your own arbitrary applications.
I was thinking that file readers would qualify as applications. Now whether they want users to be making applications that do other things, that's a different matter, isn't it? :happy2:

whats a reader if not an application?
Hehe, point taken. But is every application a reader? :-)

Whats the point of providing an SDK if they don't want people doing exactly that.

My understanding of it was they are developing it as a reader. If others want to write/port applications that allow it to do other things then all well and good.

Otherwise what was the point of that suduko game thing they were showing off at one of the shows?

Otherwise what was the point of that suduko game thing they were showing off at one of the shows?

I haven’t heard of that one, but could it be an HTML page with a JS sudoku (like this (http://www.geocities.com/binnyva/code/javascript/sudoku/)) instead of a standalone sudoku app?

Either way, it's not, strictly speaking, a reader app. :mad:

Either way, it's not, strictly speaking, a reader app.
Hey, that was my point ;-)

Oh, then we've all been arguing the same point! :rolleyes5

*grin*

Sounds like my old workplace. I can't count the number of times that my ex-boss and I would end up almost shouting at one another over something and the arguement would end "So if we both think XXX is YYY then why the hell are we arguing about it?"

End of story (my half... b_k?):

Got it fixed and returned. Apparently it was opened - may be a hint that there's no JTAG interface (or anything equivalent) in the external connector. They got my package on friday, and on monday they returned it. I got it yesterday.

I got a boatload of Fresh Netherlands Air (TM) for free -- check the attached image.

nothing till now. I already had called UPS to pick up when i got the mail from Karel. So the package was going to Dueren/Germany first, before they internally collect it to Eindhoven/NL.

Haven't heard anything from iRex or UPS yet. (although, I never asked for the status of my iLiad)

I avoid talking to their forum (for obvious reasons, I don't like their sometimes rude voice and I don't like being "accused" of things)

This might possibly be caused by cultural misunderstandings. After all, iRex is a Dutch company. As a rule of thumb, just take nothing personally. Generally communication is more direct than you can expect elsewhere in the world, I notice when I return there. Just a thought, being Dutch myself.