Well, after an unsussesful trial some days ago I today tried again to find a Zaurus console application which runs on the iLiad. And I was finally successful. :-)

I took the Zaurus armutils (http://www.elsix.org/index.php?w=project&p=481), unpacked them into a directory on my sd-card and tried some of them:root@ereader:/media/card/apps/usr/bin# ls
arch comm fold less namei readlink sum unexpand bc csplit getopt lessecho nl rev tac unzip bzip2 diff gpg lesskey od run-parts tcsh vmstat bzip2recover diff3 gpgv lesspipe paste sdiff tempfile watch cksum expand join lspgpot pr skill top cmp fmt ldd mawk ptx split tsort

root@ereader:/media/card/apps/usr/bin# ./less
./less: error while loading shared libraries: libncurses.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

root@ereader:/media/card/apps/usr/bin# ./mawk --help mawk: not an option: --help

root@ereader:/media/card/apps/usr/bin# ./fmt --help
Usage: ./fmt [-DIGITS] [OPTION]... [FILE]... Reformat each paragraph in the FILE(s), writing to standard output. If no FILE or if FILE is `-', read standard input. Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too.
-c, --crown-margin preserve indentation of first two lines
-p, --prefix=STRING combine only lines having STRING as prefix
-s, --split-only split long lines, but do not refill
-t, --tagged-paragraph indentation of first line different from second
-u, --uniform-spacing one space between words, two after sentences
-w, --width=NUMBER maximum line width (default of 75 columns)
--help display this help and exit
--version output version information and exit In -wNUMBER, the letter `w' may be omitted. Report bugs to <bug-textutils@gnu.org>.

root@ereader:/media/card/apps/usr/bin# ./comm --help
Usage: ./comm [OPTION]...
LEFT_FILE RIGHT_FILE Compare sorted files
LEFT_FILE and RIGHT_FILE line by line.
-1 suppress lines unique to left file
-2 suppress lines unique to right file
-3 suppress lines unique to both files
--help display this help and exit
--version output version information and exit Report bugs to <bug-textutils@gnu.org>

Now someone more capable then myself could try to run the X11 apps from http://www.pdaxrom.org

Well cool, just read your thread and thought, well that's worth a try...
So googled a little, and found a nice mp3-app for Zaurus... copied it to the Iliad
ipkg'ed it into my favourite testing directory... and taadaaa it's working!

So for those who can't wait to have Mp3-Player functionality I recommend the
MadPlay Mp3 Player (http://www.mneuroth.de/privat/zaurus/madplay.html)

Finally SOUND :D

Greets
Kris

wow. that's truly impressive. You think the shared libraries from zaurus should also work?

Well dunno,
i'm not that much of a Linux-Geek to be able to answer that...

But what harm can do a little testing :rolleyes5 as long as it's reversible :D

Finally SOUND :D

Greets
Kris

Cool! Thank you for trying.

Cool! Thank you for trying.

Your welcome!

Now what's missing is a nice Interface, maybe one could modify a matchbox-panel that way... just read some documentation, but unfortunately nothing that told me howto to acomplish such task...

Can't be that difficult I guess...

I killed the matchbox panel and started it with different arguments to see what happens. But actually before modifying file I would really like to be able to make an image of the whole thing. There must be a way to do it...

I killed the matchbox panel and started it with different arguments to see what happens. But actually before modifying file I would really like to be able to make an image of the whole thing. There must be a way to do it...

I made two backups, from my linux machine, where the Iliad was 192.168.1.100:

first is an archive to play with
ssh root@192.168.1.100 'tar -cf - /' > iliad.tar

second is a complete dump of the flash memory:
ssh root@192.168.1.100 'dd if=/dev/tffsa' > iliad.dd

the second should be everything that needs to be written back to the Iliad, however, it's unclear how to do that. :)

one can only hope they have something in the backhand, which is similar to the system used on the Zauri. Wasn't their flash/update program hidden in the flash, where a user couldn't accidently kill or reach it?

I heard that there is a Java VM for the Zaurus. Does that mean that the same VM could also work on the iLiad?

I haven't got mine yet (and even if, I wouldn't know how to do it), so could someone try the VM on the iLiad?

Possibly, there is another thread about Java where this is answered in more depth:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7040

I konw about that thread, since I started it, but as far as I know the zaurus has not been mentioned in it yet, though jeode was mentioned I think. Thanks anyway.

Ahem:

You can use Personal Java (essentially Java 1.1) on the Zaurus. It's licensed from a company called Jeode and works pretty good.

Oooops, sorry.

Oooops, sorry.

No problem, I am used to be ignored. ;-)

I think that the Jeode VM needs Qtopia to run. But maybe it will work with JamVM: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=19626&hl=java

Could someone who is not worried about installing software give it a try?

The idea is to use not the executables from Sharp, but the ones from gpe or anyone not using qtopia.

YEAH

display rotation works!

get
http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/3.5.1/feed/ncurses_5.4-r0_arm.ipk
http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/3.5.1/feed/xrandr_0.0cvs20040915-r0_arm.ipk
(these are OpenZaurus builds)


then do

xrandr -d :0 -q

and finally, to rotate:

xrandr -d :0 -o right


sorry for the picture quality.

:-) Great!

awesome. If compatibility is so good, we are going to need some site to put the valid packages and start a "distribution".

What about Nokia 770? It is touchier, because it is a most advanced minor number of the glibc and kernel 2.6, plus "hildonization". I am not even sure if Zaurus binaries work in Nokia.

If you like I will gladly offer space on my site irexiliad.com

PM me and we can get something set up

hacking season is *so* on.

even gaim from OpenZaurus 3.5.3 installs. (with 2 additional libraries)

i think we've got it.

even gaim from OpenZaurus 3.5.3 installs. (with 2 additional libraries)
For those who're only human... could someone translate please?

Well done, DHer!

To celebrate the moment, we opened another section: iLex Downloads (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=109)

Some info: Binaries can be attached to threads. Upload of .ipk packages allowed. If you have suggestions, feel free to PM me (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=3) or any other member of the MobileRead team.

so would this work?

http://only.mawhrin.net/fbreader/

For those who're only human... could someone translate please?

In a nutshell:

The iLiad architecture and operating system seems to have some similarities to a PDA (electronic organizer). This PDA is called Zaurus and it was made by Sharp.

Like the iLiad the Zaurus is running a flavour of Embedded Linux as operating system. Trial and Error has shown, that some of applications created for the Zaurus can also be used on the iLiad. That means, that we can take some of the Zaurus applications, install them on the iLiad and pray that they run.

The interesting thing is, that the Zaurus is a very special, that means a very geeky PDA, resulting in people with too long hair and too much time :D trying to create their own applications or even their own operating system for the device. As there are really many people of this kind out there, this resulted in many different home brown operating systems being created for the Zaurus personal digital assistant. As these operating systems have to be written in the flash memory of the device, they are often called ROMs:

Sharp ROM: factory OS from Sharp (in thrilling Japanese)
Cacko ROM: a Sharp ROM on steroids (a russian guy made some serious modifications)


Those two use a graphical user interface, which was created by a Norwegian company called "Trolltech". You can think about this graphical userinterface as an embedded linux application, which offers other applications its services like all inclusive catering for window elements, dialogs, touchscreen- and key events. The name of this gui (graphical userinterface) is nearly as funny as the name of the company itself. It's called "Qtopia", or in short "Qt".

Now some of the guys with the too long hair and the too much time decided not to like Qt, because it comes or comes not with some licensing problem. They therfore decided to create their own graphical userinterface, called "Opie". In this process they even modified the underlying embedded linux operating system: "Open Zaurus" was born.


Open Zaurus: new embedded linux with new graphical userinterface OPIE


Now some of the guys of the guys with too long hair and the too much time decided that this is all Kindergarten and that the poor little but very powerful Zaurus should run a graphical user interface like it's Linux desktop cousins do: X-Windows

So they took some serious magic and time and out came: pdaxROM


pdaxROM: new (?) embedded linux with x-Server and window manager


pdaxROM uses an embedded linux with an application called X-Server. This X-Server gives the other graphical applications all the windows and input methods they need. Unfortunately it does not give them window elements like buttons and dialogs. Therefore another application on top of the x-Server on top of the Embedded Linux operating system was needed: The window manager "Matchbox". It's called window manager, because it manages the windows supplied by the X-Server.

Now the really interesting thing is, that the iLiad is pretty much like a Zaurus running pdaxrom. That means: It has Embedded Linux with X-Server on top and Matchbox on top of the top.

It should therefore be possible to "borrow" some stuff from pdaxROM and to put it into the iLiad. It should also be possible to "borrow" non graphical stuff from one of the other ROMs for the Zaurus.

Gaim was borrowed this way. It is an application, which should allow us instant messaging on the iLiad. Now the only problem is, that we don't have an application called "xterminal" running on the iLiad yet. Such an xterminal is needed to run non graphical applications in a window on top of all the other stuff. Of course we could also run non graphical applications outside the graphical X-Server. But then we wouldn't see them without connecting another computer to the iLiad. And that would probably be really to geeky for every day use. But wait, where did I put my Zaurus...

Puuuuh... I hope I didn't produce too much confusion with this post. In any way, I am no linux expert myself. I only imported a Zaurus and had to learn some stuff in order to use it the way it really shouldn't be used according to the Japanese guys who invented it...

Btw: Please don't be angry about the long hair thing.... I have too much time myself. ;) And please correct me if necessary. It's still confusing for me...

Gaim was borrowedthis way. It is an application, which should allow us instant messaging on the iLiad. Now the only problem is, that we don't have an application called "xterminal" running on the iLiad yet. Such an xterminal is needed to run non graphical applications in a window on top of all the other stuff. Of course we could also run non graphical applications outside the graphical X-Server. But then we wouldn't see them without connecting another computer to the iLiad. And that would probably be really to geeky for every day use. But wait, where did I put my Zaurus...

Aren't there two ways around this...? Firstly can't we run things via the pdf reader...? Ie, install a something over ssh and then call it from a pdf. And secondly, can we not find a xterm app for the Zaurus and run it on the Illiad...?

Aren't there two ways around this...? Firstly can't we run things via the pdf reader...?

We can and do (e.g. to switch on the network), but we cannot see the output.
We can also let the applications appear in the content listing application. But then we also cannot see the output of our non graphical application.

And secondly, can we not find a xterm app for the Zaurus and run it on the Illiad...?

We should. But as I do not dare to install application packages (called IPK) without knowing how to backup the whole thing beforehand, we have to rely on some of the professionals here...

Thanks R2D2. Your post was very clear and illustrated a lot of things to me.

I also understand your concern with the installation of possibly critical software without the possibility of a backup. So the rest of us users will have to wait for that, but what you say sounds really good in principle.

Thanks again for all your work. And I don't only mean R2, but everyone else here. I truly appreciate it and I'm sure the rest of us techno-dummys does as well.

In a nutshell:
That's an amazing nutshell! You (or someone else) should post this to the Wiki (http://wiki.mobileread.com/index.php?title=ILiad_hacking&action=edit).

And secondly, can we not find a xterm app for the Zaurus and run it on the Illiad...?

It seems we are near now. Xterm asks for two previous issues to be solved: the ncurses library, and the input method. DHer has superposed a second ncurses upon the one installed in the iLiad and it seems this was enough to get xrandr working (note how stupid it is that xrandr asks for ncurses: this is the typical chaos of package dependences). The input method needs some kernel modules: usbmouse.o or hid.o or similar ones for the kernel 2.4; given that the Zaurus does not have a "USB A" connection, we will need to look for these modules elsewere or compile them ourselves. It is possible to compile modules without having the ful source of the kernel; some students of me did it for the Zaurus 5500 a couple years ago.

A more convolved input method could be to jack a bluetooth tongle in the USB port and manage input from a BT keyboard. This is even more complicated.

A third alternative could be to wifi-network with a machine having a keyboard and do some bridging. For a stable method I think it will be the funnier solution: a PDA plus an iLiad, cloning somehow the chinese Hanlin V2.

@R2D2: The problem is not long hair, it is the facial hair. I must use a barber blade to get rid of it after three weeks.

given that the Zaurus does not have a "USB A" connection, we will need to look for these modules elsewere or compile them ourselves.

A more convolved input method could be to jack a bluetooth tongle in the USB port and manage input from a BT keyboard. This is even more complicated.

The new Zauri (C3000) are USB host. The drivers are included in the Cacko ROM. It does also include BlueZ drivers for bluetooth.

p.s.:

Don't worry about your hair. ;-)

ok, there is a terminal application, called rxvt

now we just need a reasonable input method. :)

edit: FBReader doesn't work (yet).

ok, there is a terminal application, called rxvt

now we just need a reasonable input method. :)

edit: FBReader doesn't work (yet).

Besides Zaurus, the Familiar distribution for the iPaQ series does contain modules for kernel 2.4.19, here

http://ipkgfind.handhelds.org/details.phtml?package=kernel-module-hid-2.4.19-rmk6-pxa1-hh37&official=&format=

But the problem is going to be the dependence between packages; for sure we do not need another kernel, just the module... but perhaps also some /etc to describe the hotplug, not sure.

Thanks to everyone's input we revised our decision to start a new forum section for downloads. Instead, we set up a dedicated feed repository for iRex binaries.

Well done, DHer!

To celebrate the moment, we opened another section: iLex Downloads (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=109)

Some info: Binaries can be attached to threads. Upload of .ipk packages allowed. If you have suggestions, feel free to PM me (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=3) or any other member of the MobileRead team.