This thread is for posting questions about the Iliad. New Iliad owners can come here when they have received their devices to answer some of the questions the poor Iliad-less people posted... :scholar:

This is to prevent those question form cluttering up lots of other threads and getting lost or staying unnoticed.

Another good starting place is the Wiki (http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/IRex_iLiad). --Alex

First one, and a main one: Is GPL acknowledged for in the small print of the printed documentation, and if so for which software (Linux, xpdf, netpbm...)?

Even Sony acks it in the Librie docs.

What other software, non GPL, is acknowledged, and which versions (this is important for pdf)?

How is the screen protected? None of the pictures I have seen show any kind of a cover. The inside of my bookbag is a tumultuous, chaotic, environment. I wouldn't want to put an unprotected iLiad screen in there. Does it come with anything to cover the screen?

LauretteBradley: It isn't, and no.

But they will be selling a case soonish apparently (this really bugs me, I spent all this money and they don't even give me a case).

I also want to get a screen protector, just like we use for PDAs or smartphones, wonder whether iliad has this kind of accessories.

not yet unfortunately

About the GPL and other Software related questions..maybe the answer is here?

https://www.irexshop.com/conditions.php?osCsid=653f68b3821ea268a0cac076875e 52e1

I'm too jittery to read it now, but maybe somebody wants to take a look...lots of legal stuff in there...

About the GPL and other Software related questions..maybe the answer is here?

https://www.irexshop.com/conditions.php?osCsid=653f68b3821ea268a0cac076875e 52e1

I'm too jittery to read it now, but maybe somebody wants to take a look...lots of legal stuff in there...

Hmm... I am no Lawyer and english is not my native tongue, but this does not look GPLish, or am I wrong?:

Unless otherwise specifically provided in writing and signed by IRex, Buyer shall not have the right to any software source code.

Greetings,
Frank

I have no idea...there woas something aobut software rights and public availability and stuff so I thought it might be something like that...but I'm no lawyer either and english isn't my main language either so I thought that's for somebody else to plow through...^^

I'd be curious to know what books - if any - are on the Iliad already.
Wasn't there talk at some point of at least a dictionary?

The manual will be stored on the Iliad, at least thats what the quick-start guide says.

i think i have enough books for a few pleasant reading years :) And then there is always some recent novel, that you can get for your new toy. But mostly i will use it for manuals and references.

How is the screen protected? None of the pictures I have seen show any kind of a cover. The inside of my bookbag is a tumultuous, chaotic, environment. I wouldn't want to put an unprotected iLiad screen in there. Does it come with anything to cover the screen?
The weak point of previous e-ink displays (ie librie) was not the front but the backplane. It is a rigid display, and excesive torsion can break it. Perhaps the wacom tablet here gives additional rigidity.

Here's one for tomorrow:

The charger it comes with is it the travel charger that is shown on their accessories list?

And does that have a UK style plug as well as the US/european types shown.

Otherwise I will have to go out and buy an adapter, and this scares me.

for it being a "travel"hub, i sure hope they thought about that and it supports 110-240V and has several plugadapters. But then again ... ;)

The travelhub isn't the same as the travel charger according to their accessories in the webshop Tribble.

But they have a "travel" charger which doesn't have a UK plug type pictured...

*I would _hope_ so too, but until I see it, I won't be convinced*

I guess you will have to send CommanderROR a picture of your sockets then, so he knows, wether the appropriate plug is in the box :D

This type:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:G_plug.png#file

Hmm... I am no Lawyer and english is not my native tongue, but this does not look GPLish, or am I wrong?:
....
Yes, i have seen that to. But there remains one problem for Irex:
If it is indeed running Linux, it is GPL licensed, and they can not change that. GPL allows you to internally use your modified software without publishing the sources, but as soon as the binary software is public (like in the Iliad being sold to someone who is not from Irex ;-) ), you are forced to publish the sources. And in Germany and i think in other countries too, the GPL is already acknowledged as a valid software license. Don't have the articles yet, but just try a quick google for "netfilter" and "gpl violation". (most home routers are running on a Linux OS)

But, IANAL.

Yes, i have seen that to. But there remains one problem for Irex:
If it is indeed running Linux, it is GPL licensed, and they can not change that. GPL allows you to internally use your modified software without publishing the sources, but as soon as the binary software is public (like in the Iliad being sold to someone who is not from Irex ;-) ), you are forced to publish the sources. And in Germany and i think in other countries too, the GPL is already acknowledged as a valid software license. Don't have the articles yet, but just try a quick google for "netfilter" and "gpl violation". (most home routers are running on a Linux OS)

But, IANAL.

Some fineprint: they are not forced to publish the source of all the software running under the OS, only the modifications to the OS. Particulartly they are forced to publish the modifications of the kernel even if they are loaded as modules. Even Sony complies with this requeriment.

The application launcher can be a propietary application, and the same about the pdf reader, if they do not use GPL'd code. Also some GNU libraries can be linked dinamically against propietary applications.

please refrain from annoying iRex till we got our UPS tracking numbers ;)

(Note to the anonymous iRex guy out there and reading this: could you please comment on the GPL story?)

Some fineprint: they are not forced to publish the source of all the software running under the OS, only the modifications to the OS. Particulartly they are forced to publish the modifications of the kernel even if they are loaded as modules. Even Sony complies with this requeriment.

The application launcher can be a propietary application, and the same about the pdf reader, if they do not use GPL'd code. Also some GNU libraries can be linked dinamically against propietary applications.
You are right. Should have pointed that out myself, sorry. I'm not that "only software with source is good", i don't care, if i have to install a closed source program on my router to make it support WPA-Encryption.

One Question about the libraries: you mean those licensed by LGPL, or am i wrong (again)?

I'd like to know a number on the battery capacity, in mAh, I mean. Perhaps it'll be buried in the manual somewhere....

Or maybe someone has found this somewhere already, and could share.

I asked for that information and sent an email to iRex, but no answer so far. Ill post it, when and if i have it.

Thanks for helping with the information gathering Tribble...^^

you guys rock -- thanks!

Battery size of the iLiad is 1100 mAh. At least, thats the answer i got from iRex.

Ok...the plugs are all in the box...so no worries there.
the charger automatically selects the correct input voltage I guess because I didn't fina a switch.
Yep...there is a little 110-240V sign on the bottom of the charger.

everything is looking VERY good so far.
Software version 2.4

woot, but I don't see a 3 pin plug in your photo.

Oh well, it's all of £4 to but a European to UK adaptor

As long as the charger works on 240v thats the main thing.

woot, but I don't see a 3 pin plug in your photo.

You actually dont need a 3 pin plug. The third pin is only an additional ground. Not really necessary with many devices.

Actually one is positive, one negative, and one ground. But you are right...

The problem being that to physically plug it into a sokcet you need the larger ground pin, as it releases the shutters, which prevent idiots and children pokeing things into the live bits :-)

Actually one is positive, one negative, and one ground. But you are right...

The problem being that to physically plug it into a sokcet you need the larger ground pin, as it releases the shutters, which prevent idiots and children pokeing things into the live bits :-)

I didnt know that, We have many plugs that come without ground. And any idiot can poke into our sockets :) Well, you never stop learning.

It seems like the charger is one of those "slide in the plug of choice" types, they might send you the right plug (when I bought a battery charger from US they sent European), or you might be able to acquire the right one, so you don't have an extra bulky plug (with adapter and all).

Ok, went to check... if it's a standard type of slide-in plug, I have a UK version right here, which I can send you by post, if you end up needing it. :)

The UK is great on those type of security measures, like the typical light switch/cord in bathrooms. Clever guys! :D

Actually I have an old palm charger like that. I was just thinking that if they are similar designs, the 3pin bit may well fit the iLiad charger.

As I said though a europlug to UK adaptors are only 4 quid. as long as the charger itself works for 240v I'm happy.

Actually they are now leaning away from lightcords in the bathrooms. Which means that you have to have a switch outside the room.

Ok, the offer's still open, although I'll have to see the charger to make sure it actually works, lol, but the plug is just sitting here unused (we got our Blackberrys at work with a full collection of plugs). ;)

Pity, I love those cords and the click-click they do.

the "slde-on" mechanism look pretty standard and works very well, you might very wellb e able to use your plug or buy one that fits and just slide it on...

i'm going to read for a bit now...I'll tell you more in a little while.

Fair enough. Go have fun while we talk behind your back ;-P

Actually one is positive, one negative, and one ground. But you are right...

The problem being that to physically plug it into a sokcet you need the larger ground pin, as it releases the shutters, which prevent idiots and children pokeing things into the live bits :-)

The cap of a BIC pen makes a good work here. You insert it in the ground pin, the shutters are released, and then you can insert a round continental stile two-pin plug.

I think i would prefer to just buy the adaptor...

Is it nasty tasting to goats?

One of the things I'd like to do is chill in the bottom field in the sun and read. I can't do that with my Origami because conventional LCDs and sunlight just don't mix, of course. And if I take paper media down there, the goats try and eat them.

I think i would prefer to just buy the adaptor...
This is because you are a native. We continentals are always lacking adaptors for all our gadgets.

Is it nasty tasting to goats?

One of the things I'd like to do is chill in the bottom field in the sun and read. I can't do that with my Origami because conventional LCDs and sunlight just don't mix, of course. And if I take paper media down there, the goats try and eat them.

Hmm is there anything the goats do not try?

No, and that includes small children *(remembers being nibbled in a painful place as a small child)*

Hmm is there anything the goats do not try?

This leads to another question. Is the e-ink stuff toxic? Just imagine a goat nibbling at your iliad, cracking it open and dying from eating up the e-ink.

It *should* be nasty tasting to goats, otherwise iRex will be sued by all the ex goat-owners... :rolleyes5

Greetings,
Frank

This leads to another question. Is the e-ink stuff toxic? Just imagine a goat nibbling at your iliad, cracking it open and dying from eating up the e-ink.
It seems rather stable: my 800x600 broken display is not leaking any drop of ink. after two months

Is it nasty tasting to goats?

One of the things I'd like to do is chill in the bottom field in the sun and read. I can't do that with my Origami because conventional LCDs and sunlight just don't mix, of course. And if I take paper media down there, the goats try and eat them.

This is an important question to me -- I like to read a book in the park or on a beacj... Can you use the Illiad in full sunshine like a book...? Most LCD screens are either unreadable or quite hard to read in glaring sunshine...

This is an important question to me -- I like to read a book in the park or on a beacj... Can you use the Illiad in full sunshine like a book...? Most LCD screens are either unreadable or quite hard to read in glaring sunshine...

I would certainly hope so, since that's the whole point of my buying an E-Ink product.

Hopefully in a couple of years' time I'll end up with what I really want, which is something like my Origami but with a reasonably fast, colour e-ink display I can read anywhere.

The promise of portability isn't really fulfilled as long as "anywhere that's sunny" is excluded from places you can use your device.

Being able to lie in the field and read the net, do some writing, read or maybe play a game or two would be ideal, (goats willing) ;).

This is an important question to me -- I like to read a book in the park or on a beacj... Can you use the Illiad in full sunshine like a book...? Most LCD screens are either unreadable or quite hard to read in glaring sunshine...

even more interesting:

since even normal paper in bright sunlight tends to 'blind' me after some time (have to use sunglasses), is it possible to change the background color ('paper' color) of the iliad to, say, a light gray (or even invert the screen)?

can somebody who has a device check this, please?

thx

You can see a video of the device in sunlight:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6893

Also the screen never "blinded" me when reading outdoor, it just goes real close to white... (very light grey)

even more interesting:

since even normal paper in bright sunlight tends to 'blind' me after some time (have to use sunglasses), is it possible to change the background color ('paper' color) of the iliad to, say, a light gray (or even invert the screen)?

can somebody who has a device check this, please?

thx

Not about Iliad, but e-ink...
I have Hanlin V8, the screen is light gray, and it is perfect in sunlight! Better then white paper.
BTW, using Hanlin printer it is possible to make inverted books )) White text at balck screen :)

So here's something I thought of today, as far as ereader functionality goes. Maybe this has already been answered...

How does the Iliad work with non-sequential access? When reading fiction, just moving from one page to the next is fine, but in technical books or other reference books, I want to be able to jump around from place to place without having to page through. What's the interface for doing that on the Iliad?

In a perfect world, there would be a "hyperlinked" table of contents and index - maybe dynamically created by scanning the book. But I don't think we're there yet ;-)

Edit: I found the answer after more carefully looking at the Q&A (thanks FGFuzaxx!) No hyperlinking, but you can use the on-screen keyboard to jump to any page you like.

Yes, and page-jumping is a bit faster than what we saw in Henrycats vids.

Now...

Let me try to do a quick summing up of the day.
I haven't really postet a lot of info here during this day, but unfortunately not because I was so busy playing with my Iliad. Today was that kind of day where you don't get anything done. So I didn't read, I hardly fooled around with the device and I didn't get any work done either (have to do that tomorrow where I don't really have time anyway....^^).

What I can give you is some first-expereince info.

The device feels good and looks good (apart from that sloping edge). Qualitiy is good overall, but I found a slight "error" with my model where the plastic near the SD card slot can move a little bit. I don't think this is a serious problem, but i'd be interested to hear whether more people have that "problem".
The Casing is made of nice and elegant looking, slightly rubbery feeling plastic. The buttons are all nice and easy to handle, the page-flip bar is very comfortable and, although it isn't silent it doesn't click as loudly as Henrycat's vido would have suggested...it's a very acceptable noise.
The backside of the device looks a bit "strange", but it's actually helpful in the terms of ergonomics. One spot on the device gets a bit warm during operation, I guess this is where the processor is...^^
Room temperature here where I'm sitting is about 30 degrees celsius, and if the device doesn't have any trouble here, it won't have any trouble ever...^^ (though i'm not sure about direct sunlight...haven't tried as I don't usually read outside...)

The screen is great. You have to see it to believe it. You won't miss colour...^^

Continued in next post....

I think hyperlinking is also possible, if you create the html that way, at least, that's what they said it would do.

The boot-up time of the device is quite long....something that is rather awkward because you have to switch it off quite often (due to the missing power saving) at the moment. Once it worls as it's supposed to you could probably just leave it on most of the time. The manual indicates something like that.

The Software looks good from a design-point of view, but it is still severely lacking in MANY aspects. Contents of my SD card often don't show when selected, but I found a workaround for this...i'll have to do further testing to see if this alawys helps solve the problem.
I've used the HTML viewer and the PDF viewer so far. They are both not good at all...
The HTML viewer is a little better in my opinion. It allows changes in font size and displays text on the whole width of the screen (a bit too much so, I think adding a small margin would be good, but you can do that in the document I guess). The trouble is, that you only get one page at the moment. That doesn't mean that there is only one page of course...it just menas that you can't select a page number. The "page breaks" are also sometimes in the middle of a line...but it looks promising.

The PDF viewer...ok...it isn't that bad. Pages are shown quite well, if they have the right format. My document had large margins left and right, but I guess that was my own mistake while formatting. You can jump to any page and in the document I used it worked quite well. It was also quite fast (especially compared to the vids we've seen). We are still a few steps away from getting 1 sec. page updates, but it's looking better.

One thing that slightly bugged me is the fact, that the little indicator light on top of the device is constantly blinking weakly....weakly but very fast. This can be a bit annoying, but you can hardly see it in daylight, and in the dark you can't see the screen, so it shouldn't be a problem. I'd still like to know why it does this...looks like an error to me.

Notes works quite well as far as I can tell...the templates are also cool...at the moment the WACOM features are not really used, but I was told that they would be implemented in a later software version. I also didn't manage to save anything and export it to PC (I'm not sure whether this works yet), but I'll try it some time and let you know.

So far for now...i'll have to wash the dishes now...^^

Any special questions you think I can answer, just post them here...i'll look in later.

@ElaHuguet

It hink it was shown in Henrycat's vids...

Ah, there too, you're right! I was remembering some previous specifications. :)

@CommanderROR

Do you know what format the Notetaking tamplates are in?

some are in .xeb and some in bmp.
I haven't checked them all yet.

Commander,

A couple of posts you remarked a bit of a dissatisfaction with the contrast and not having as bright a background as paper. Is there any way to adjust this contrast? There was some disappointment in the timbre of you posts.

There has always appeared to be a bit of a grey cast in many of the pictures of the iRex. In a lot of the cases this was dismissed as just a phenomena from taking a picture of it and the light source. Now it sounds that it might be a bit more than that.

Just want to address this as it is a very important issue, and I am sure that others would want to know as well.

If you could shed a little 'light" on this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx!

I think hyperlinking is also possible, if you create the html that way, at least, that's what they said it would do.

Is that embedded in the page, then? I was thinking along the lines of a special index/TOC external to the document... so that you didn't have to remember where the index page was, jump there, page through, and jump to what you were looking for.... Seems like it would be a good way to avoid page refreshes, since those are the slow part. Or maybe it already works that way, I'll have to look at the video again.

I am getting antzy waiting for my iRex (if it will ever come!). I figure what I should do is prepare the myriad of manuals I have to be displayed on the iRex. Most of these manuals are in PDF form. I will probably have to put a bunch of bookmarks in to increase accessibility in these manuals. Most of these manuals are formatted 8.5 X 11.

What would be the best way to format documents for display on the iRex? Would it be better to be in a doc, pdf, or html format? Is there any viewer on the iRex that is faster on the page turns than the other? How do they handle bookmarks? How should the documents themselves be formatted for the best display? I have Adobe Acrobat 6 and but I am no expert in it's use. Looking up some of the help files on Adobe it says that you should make sure the files are "tagged" for display on varying electronic mediums, I accomplished this on one file so far, I will do more when I get home as I am on the road with the laptop and the tagging is fairly extensive load on the laptop. I also have MS Word which I am somewhat familiar with. Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I'm preparing several of my novels with the index on page 1, so it's easy to get to and remember, lol. On the other hand, in HenryCat's video, I seem to recall he brought the index up on the side of the page, so I guess you can do that to, but I don't know how to prepare that, I'll have to wait for the iLiad and the instruction manual. :D

I have Adobe Acrobat 6 and but I am no expert in it's use. Looking up some of the help files on Adobe it says that you should make sure the files are "tagged" for display on varying electronic mediums, ...

Tagging is mainly useful for accessibility such as reflow, or use where you extract the text from the file and feed to some other application. Essentially tags say what chunks of texts belong together and in what order. In 'simple' books this is rarely a problem: in newspapers and magazines it tends to be.

About the contrast:

Yes, it is a bit dissappointing. But it depends on lighting. In good light, it's more than adequate. In poor lighting it is a bit harder to read than a paper book. Overall it isn't really a problem. What I find strange is the fact that the screen can display whiter pictures than it does. If you load a page with lots of black "bars" you can see them as white aftershadows on the next page with a blank background...this is strange.
You are right that I was slightly dissappointed, but don't let that get to you. The screen is still excellent and readability is great.

About Document formats:
I put my PDF files in 12x16cm right now. That's ok for the heigt, but a bit too little for the width. (could also be that my PDF had margins that were too large left and right).
I didn't have a lot of time yesterday, so I only did a little experimenting there.
Bookmarks and all those nice little things are still absent in Software 2.4, so reading a novel is really hard since you have to open the file again, have to find your page again and all that...
Zooming in PDf files is also not implemented yet. With that feature, a lot of work could be saved...so I'm not going to make many customised PDFs just now...i'm waiting for the PDf viewer with zooming or even better the HTML viewer with pageing...^^

Anyone found out how to diectly jump to a page in PDF files?
Henrycat, maybe you can tell us (or has it been broken with 2.4)

Has anyone found out, how to enter a static ip, gateway and DNS in a profile?

LOL, ok, enough mucking around and making us jealous, tell us!! Do you agree with Commander, it's a good size, good read and all? :D

Commander,

A couple of posts you remarked a bit of a dissatisfaction with the contrast and not having as bright a background as paper. Is there any way to adjust this contrast?

e-ink devised various methods to update the pages of this kind of display. the slower ones usually get better contrast, but you can not scape of the recicled paper look. Which, in some sense, seems appropiate :-)

Has anyone found out, how to enter a static ip, gateway and DNS in a profile?

A serious question!!! they could be relying on DHCP

The size is very good. If you only want to read books, it could be smaller, and for anything other it could be bigger, so its a very pleasant compromise.

The device itself has a very nice grip and feels good in the hand. The material has a pleasent feel, and looks good. No cheap plastic feel. It seems very well manufactured. Good casing, screwed together with star screws, The buttons are good to press and are at level with the rest of the serface. The upper left buttons could be a bit difficult to press if you have large hands. Using the flipbar is actually very comfortable and feels very natural. Even the switching left to go forward comes very easy if you think in terms of flipping a page.

It comes with protective covers for the CF and SD slot, which is quite good. Unfortunately i am having trouble reading SD cards. I have a 1GB Sandisk and a 2GB Transcend 150x. The "GB card has not been recognized once, the 1GB gets recognized sometimes. I havent found out why and when yet. Trying to reproduce the error. CF cards havent benn a problm so far and seem to work niceley, but i have only a 512MB card hee, so broblems might occur with larger cards.

I used the USB port only to connect a USB lamp, and that worked :)

The display itself is really amazing. When i opened the box, i found it quite greyish. And it is not as white as i had thought, but the readability is excelent. Even the smallest fonts are readable. That was a surprise to me. The contrast is about the same as newspaper, and the display gets easier to read, the more light you have. The plastic cover (i think its plastic) is brushed and reflects little, but it does reflect. So you dont have the complete paper feel. All in all the diplay is great and i think the next generation display of eink might do wonders (this one is, comparted to lcd in sunlight).

The connection to iDs should be easy, if you have a properly setup DHCP Server. I do not, and there seems to be no way to enter static LAN information yet. The connection to the wireless lan works though. Encryption can only be done with WEP.

The software is still beta as mentioned before. PDF files can be read well. I tried a copy of scientific american and it was all readable but not comfortable to read (will test scientific papers later). No zooming available yet. I also didnt find out how to jump to a specific page. And reopening a file always starts on the first page

HTML reader works fine, but no pagination and text gets cut of in the midle of a line. Havent tested nested and linked files yet.

The notetaking works faster than i expected. If you get the templates (most templates are just bmp or jpg files 538x658) you can write notes (only one per image so far, saves note as imagename_note.xxx)
the provided xeb file has 10 pages inside it and you can write your notes there aswell, but the usage is not quite intuitive and there is no information about it in the manuals. But the writing speed is pretty fast and it seems to work ok so far. I think the next software updates will give us better notetaking possibilities.

The filelist needs some rework in my oppinion. The displayed filenames are to short and i could not distinguish between many files, because the prefixes were the same. I also think that there should be more than 6 files on a page. Maybe thta will be customizable in a future OS version.

i have been playing around with the device for about 5 hours now (almost on all the time lots of pen usage) and the battery is at a third of its capacity (indicator is to small to be more precise)

The best format for PDF files, if you make your own is 12x15cm (1cm at the bottom gets reserved for menu icons) then you have a comfortable reading space and can controll margins yourself.

For now, i have to say, i love it. If the software gets updated and can do, what was promised, then i will be a very, very happy camper.

Hope thats enough for now, but i gladly answer any questions that you come up with.

Hope thats enough for now, but i gladly answer any questions that you come up with.

Any open ports/running services?

Hope thats enough for now, but i gladly answer any questions that you come up with.

Could you upload a few pictures? Also, Do you suffer from the long time taken for changing page?

Any open ports/running services?
havent checked yet, will try to tonight.

THANKS, Tribble, that was really great info. Just one question: I don't have a card reader, and am questioning whether I need it. If I stick a SD/CF (I hope SD will be fine, don't want to buy another one) into the iLiad, can I load books onto it by connecting the iLiad to the PC?

@Ela...

The Iliad will (or so they say) work as a card reader sometime, at the moment it's cardreader for the cards and direct USB for the device itself.

I don't have a card reader, and am questioning whether I need it. If I stick a SD/CF (I hope SD will be fine, don't want to buy another one) into the iLiad, can I load books onto it by connecting the iLiad to the PC?

You cant directly copy files from the pc to a memory card in the iLiad. As far as i know, iRex is already checking, weather this is possible or not, but so far you willl have to use some other way to transfer data to you memory cards (copying to flash and the moving from flash to memory card doesnt work either, as far as i know)

@Herve: Page turns seem quite a bit faster than with Henrycats Version. A PDF Text only is about 3 seconds now. With images on the page longer.

Will try to take some pictures later and post them here.

Thanks, pity about that card reader business (but why? If I can access the card on my digital camera... oh, well).

Oh, my husband says we need to train ourselves, and hit the "turn page" button just before we reach the end of the page (depending on our reading speed), that way, it'll turn exactly on time. :p

Thanks, pity about that card reader business (but why? If I can access the card on my digital camera... oh, well).

Oh, my husband says we need to train ourselves, and hit the "turn page" button just before we reach the end of the page (depending on our reading speed), that way, it'll turn exactly on time. :p

It is not the final version yet. And for the comparison with the camera, thats not quite as easy. The camera has no seperate memory built in. When connection to the iLiad, you need a way to access the internal flash and the memory cards. So that makes it a bit more tricky.

As to the pageturning. It is not as bad. As Henrycat mentioned before, it fades while you read. You dont even otice the long turns that much. Unfortunately, the pageturns are not always exactly the same time amount, so flipping early might go wrong :) But it would be great if they get it to the mentioned second, even with larger images on a page.

@ everyone who wants more images: What would you like to see on them? As we have seen quite a few, and i dont want to repeat all of them.

Oh yes, after 7 hours of excessive use, the battery was quite low. Didnt try to see after what time it dies totally, but put it back on the line. I'll tell you how long till the battery is fully charged again. (Manual says about 2 hours)

Not really, my camera DOES have separate memory... but anyway, it doesn't work and that's it, maybe they'll fix it. :)

As to images, I know other people would like them, but I'm ok, I won't appreciate the true beauty of the iLiad's screen until it's in my grubby hands, lol, so... but thank you. :D

7 hours isn't bad, they seem to have fixed some of the power management issues at least, eh?

I put a javascript page before in this thread. Tribble, soulc you test it as if it were an html page? Actually it could be interesting to test also if the browser can navigate out to the internet.

Another very interesting thing to test is if it understand HTML forms, because the input type "file" usually lets one to browse the file structure (it is the typical button "upload..." to send files to websites).

I put a javascript page before in this thread. Tribble, soulc you test it as if it were an html page? Actually it could be interesting to test also if the browser can navigate out to the internet.

Another very interesting thing to test is if it understand HTML forms, because the input type "file" usually lets one to browse the file structure (it is the typical button "upload..." to send files to websites).

Can you point me to those files again? Didnt find them in the thread, then ill test them.

A serious question!!! they could be relying on DHCP
The Profile menu has a test button, and when it cant make a connection to the iDs, it says something about changing static ip or turning on dhcp. So i think it is possible, but maybe not implemented yet.

Can you point me to those files again? Didnt find them in the thread, then ill test them.

Hmm it seems I opened a separate thread, then nobody noticed them:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32212#post32212

The examples are got from a random website on javascript.

@ everyone who wants more images: What would you like to see on them? As we have seen quite a few, and i dont want to repeat all of them.

What about displaying a photograph, so we can evaluate the shades of grey?

Hmm it seems I opened a separate thread, then nobody noticed them:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32212#post32212

The examples are got from a random website on javascript.

Besides javascript, the other thing to test are html FORMs. This is because a form field of the kind

<input type="file" name="somename" size="chars">

is expected to pop-up an "open..." window letting you browse across the filesystem. So I wonder if this feature is enabled (it can be restricted).

A portscan (wireless) revealed only 2 open ports. 25 (smtp) and 110 (pop3).
Connecting via telnet doesnt reveal much, not normal smtp or pop3. I guess Wireshark will tell us more during iDs connection.

A portscan (wireless) revealed only 2 open ports. 25 (smtp) and 110 (pop3).
Connecting via telnet doesnt reveal much, not normal smtp or pop3. I guess Wireshark will tell us more during iDs connection.

Yep. It could be either a bug (why to have pop3??) or a "clever" trick to bypass firewalls during connection to iRex mother site.

Hmm another trivial question: what does it happen if you attach a USB keyboard (eg from a Macintosh) and restart the machine? I do not really expect a console to appear because the eink display is considered too slow and developers just use an extenal terminal connection. But who knows. Perhaps you can fill notes by typing.

why to have pop3??.

Did they not want to integrate an Email client?

Maybe updates and content are "pushed" by Email? That wouldn't be that stupid, would it be?

Did they not want to integrate an Email client?

Maybe updates and content are "pushed" by Email? That wouldn't be that stupid, would it be?

But SMTP is the port receiving the push, not the POP3. And yep it seems an interesting idea but I am not sure for a mobile device.

pop3 on port 25 is a server, you dont need that to fetch mails.
And the servers are not answering like normal smtp or pop3 would

@aviero: some javascript seems to work. Browser seems based on nescape 5.0

@aviero: some javascript seems to work. Browser seems based on nescape 5.0

Applause! It is possible to get more info with an extended script

http://www.w3schools.com/js/tryit.asp?filename=try_dom_navigator


<html>
<body>

<script type="text/javascript">
var x = navigator
document.write("CodeName=" + x.appCodeName)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("MinorVersion=" + x.appMinorVersion)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("Name=" + x.appName)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("Version=" + x.appVersion)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("CookieEnabled=" + x.cookieEnabled)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("CPUClass=" + x.cpuClass)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("OnLine=" + x.onLine)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("Platform=" + x.platform)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("UA=" + x.userAgent)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("BrowserLanguage=" + x.browserLanguage)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("SystemLanguage=" + x.systemLanguage)
document.write("<br />")
document.write("UserLanguage=" + x.userLanguage)
</script>
</body>
</html>


Actually, userAgent is the interesting thing as it traditionally lists the Operating System. Also Platform could do the trick.

The iRex Iliad... I have followed it for quite a while now, and have not often seen so much written with so little actual information available ;)

Anyhow, now that it is actually becoming available to some hardy pioneers, here's a couple of questions in my first post:

- Functionality: When I read a book, I only need to flip pages, which is handled by the bar... So is there a way to have fullscreen view of the content, without distracting assorted icons wasting valuable screen estate? In which viewers? (I'm mostly interested in the HTML viewer, though)

- HTML viewer: I think this has come up before, but which version of HTML is the viewer supporting? (HTML 4.01, XHTML & CSS 1.0, CSS2.0 ?) And I too am very interested in what level of JavaScript support is provided!

P.

Oh yes, after 7 hours of excessive use, the battery was quite low. Didnt try to see after what time it dies totally, but put it back on the line. I'll tell you how long till the battery is fully charged again. (Manual says about 2 hours)


So that's not exactly 7500 page turns... (Unless it was *very* excessive use ;-)) I assume the power drain is due to things like the wireless and other background processes running. Is there any way to turn that stuff off, so that the only power drain is page changing? One of the big draws of eink for me is the idea that it's only using power under active use.

Or is that something that's coming with the eventual power management update?

Thanks for all the info you early adopters have been providing... Consider it karma to make up for getting nifty devices before the rest of us ;-)

@bingle

The power management is not really implemented at all right now...just minimal stuff.
The next two updates are supposed to implement that finally, but they've delayed it before...maybe it's harder to do than they thought.
the pageturn count is supposed to reach over 10000 in the final software according to iRex. However, you can't really compare pageturns to actual operational time. If the device uses power between pageturns then that could reduce the number of availiable pageturns. I'm looking forward to seeing what the finaly software will bring in terms of power management.

Tribble got 7 hours out of his device with lots of scribbling on the screen and stuff, so that's pretty good actuallyfor a device with little to no Power management.


I have one question:
Does anyone know the .xeb file format? There is one "test-book" on my device that works really well. It's "wuthering heigts" and my Pc identifies the file as .xeb. Bookmarks seem to work there, and the viewer seems to be a lot more advanced than the others (PDf and html) on the device.

Anyone know the format and how it can be created? I believe i've seen that file format somewhere beforem but I just can't recall where and google doesn't reveal much...or maybe i'm just too tired to search properly...

Hey!
I just notice that you can even annotate in .xeb books...but still couldn't find the format anywhere...maybe that is where all the work went...a proprietary format???

I have found some references to the xeb format using Google. One is a program for Pocket PC that supposedly can read the format.
http://www.teamonesoft.com/en/Products6.htm

Here is a device that apparently also can read the format
http://www.foundertech.com/product/ebooknew.asp

I even found a link to the Apabi site that had something about xeb, but unfortunately it was dead. However the same connection to Apabi Reader can be found here I think (not that good at Chinese) :happy2:
http://microwolf.net/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardid=10&RootID=28146&ID=28147&skin=1

I must admit that I thought Irex were not ready with Apabi support, and that it only would be for the asian market.

Just found this tool for XEB files called XEB Publisher. Not tried it as it is not in English, but thought I would post the link anyway.
http://www.softsea.net/soft/106950.htm

hm... googling around... I am not sure (yet), but it could be the "eXtensible eBook" format - which would then be an "open" format....
hmmmmm....
I'll look around some more. sounds interesting....

g'night

wiljo

So that's not exactly 7500 page turns... (Unless it was *very* excessive use ;-)) I assume the power drain is due to things like the wireless and other background processes running. Is there any way to turn that stuff off, so that the only power drain is page changing? One of the big draws of eink for me is the idea that it's only using power under active use.

Or is that something that's coming with the eventual power management update?

Right now, the WiFi seems to be running constantly. (at least i always found free ports wen scanning) and the green processor led is constantly flickering aswell. So thats probably a major reason for power to drain so quickly. I dont know, if the stylus power management works yet either, because in the manual it said, that after 3 minutes you would have to put the stylus back in the back and pull it out again, so it functions after stylus power down. But i could always just use it.

There is no switch to turn the devices off. I assume the power management will be functional in the final version of the OS.

The browser seems to support all kinds of javascript. And i even could tak a look at the filestructure that way. I added an image, so you can see for yourself.

Tribble, that is a window on your sreen. It looks pretty much like one of the common window manager is running on the machine (there are even key shortcuts specified). I think that this is great news!

this is seriously cool, indeed.

Is the whole file system accessible when connecting via USB or only the books folder?

If it isn't, could you please try to invoke a "save file to" dialogue?

After that, maybe you can test in which folders you can write. If you can save files to every folder, we have the jackpot :)

We just drop a line in init.d and get a shell on a port.

So from the user agent, it looks like a Mozilla Browser (there was never a Netscape 5, if i can trust http://www.joergkrusesweb.de/internet/browser/user-agent.html).
And the file dialog looks like the one in GNOME.

edit: compare this to the iliad browsers user agent:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; de-AT; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040608
this is from Mozilla 1.7 on Windows 2000. Very similar, isn't it?

another edit: looks like you are alpha-testing Firefox 1.6.
http://www.tnl.net/ua/OS/Windows/Firefox/1.6

the last edit (hopefully):
i was totally mistaken. Seems like they are really running a version of Firefox 2.0 there. Just downloaded the last beta, here's the user-agent of it:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de; rv:1.8.1b1) Gecko/20060710 Firefox/2.0b1

Tribble, that is a window on your sreen. It looks pretty much like one of the common window manager is running on the machine (there are even key shortcuts specified). I think that this is great news!

Seems like it :) Windows are moveable. just have to do a manual screen refresh.

And here a few images of the sample pictures, a novel page i printed to a 12x15cm pdf page from firefox, and a cropped scientific paper i had around.
The paper is quite readable, but i like small fonts anyway, so it will not be for everyone. And for the figures a variable zoom option is necessary (drag top left to bottom right of zoom area :) - that would be nice).

this is seriously cool, indeed.

Is the whole file system accessible when connecting via USB or only the books folder?

If it isn't, could you please try to invoke a "save file to" dialogue?

After that, maybe you can test in which folders you can write. If you can save files to every folder, we have the jackpot :)

We just drop a line in init.d and get a shell on a port.

The filesystem is not accessible via usb. At least not by just plugging it in as described in the manual. And you cant see files in the /etc folder, when you change into it. So the browser might not run as root :)

How could i invoke a "save to file" dialogue? CTRL-S and ALT-F dont seem to do anything. Any ideas?

well, you could put a hyperlink to a file in the same directory in the html. If it isn't a file which is supported by Firefox, it will/should/could display a "File save to" dialogue.

You tried the shortcuts with an USB keyboard?

well, you could put a hyperlink to a file in the same directory in the html. If it isn't a file which is supported by Firefox, it will/should/could display a "File save to" dialogue.

You tried the shortcuts with an USB keyboard?

Dont know, if they are specified, but i just tried (with the built in touch screen keyboard) :) I will try a USB keyboard later.

Yeah!

Go! Go! Go!

Now the big boys are playing...:-)
This is all way beyond my grasp, but it looks cool anyway.

Maybe somebody can find a way to switch the WiFi off...that would be a kind of "preliminary" power saving...^^

The browser seems to support all kinds of javascript. And i even could tak a look at the filestructure that way. I added an image, so you can see for yourself.

If anyone installed it he could confirm, but it sounds like an alpha of Firefox 2 to me. At least that's the Mozilla software in version 1.9 I can think of. Mozilla suite, aka Seamonkey, is only version 1.7.

erm. gecko is in version 1.9a1.

edit: has someone already run wireshark while getting content using iDS?

Trying to klick on a linked file (zip and jar) produces an error message:
Downloading /tmp/somerandomname.exe
/tmp/somerandomname.exe could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.

Guess it wont be that easy.

erm. gecko is in version 1.9a1.

edit: has someone already run wireshark while getting content using iDS?

My mistake, but it still means it's a fresh Mozilla product, because I'm looking at Firefox 1.5.0.4 now and Gecko is version 20060608.

But if we have a worthy SDK, writing Linux+GTK applications, and playing with Firefox-whatever will be real fun.

edit: I tried Firefox 2.0 beta and Gecko is version 1.8.1b1.

that's true.

@tribble: that's unfortunate.

This is because you are a native. We continentals are always lacking adaptors for all our gadgets.

No it's more due to me not wishing to stick random things into plug sockets...

I know that technically sticking something unconductive into the ground is "safe" but I have 2 small nephews who visit I don't want them picking up bad habits.

tribble: could you try to look into some files? You could load this HTML file:


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>x</title>
</head>
<body>
<a href="/proc/cpuinfo" type="text/plain">/proc/cpuinfo</a><br>
<a href="/proc/mounts" type="text/plain">/proc/mounts</a><br>
<a href="/proc/meminfo" type="text/plain">/proc/meminfo</a><br>
<a href="/proc/modules" type="text/plain">/proc/modules</a><br>
<a href="/proc/version" type="text/plain">/proc/version</a><br>
<a href="/proc/1/cmdline" type="text/plain">/proc/1/cmdline</a><br>
<a href="/proc/net/tcp" type="text/plain">/proc/net/tcp</a><br>
<a href="/var/log/messages" type="text/plain">/var/log/messages</a><br>
<a href="/etc/passwd" type="text/plain">/etc/passwd</a><br>
<a href="/etc/inittab" type="text/plain">/etc/inittab</a><br>
<a href="/etc/." type="text/plain">/etc/.</a><br>
</body>
</html>

can any owner post pictures of themselves holding the reader one handed?
I know it's a weird request but ive drawn out out the sizes of various readers and it looks like the liad is slighly too big to hold resting against your palm with your fingers on both opposite edges.
Secondly i'd like to see a video of someone navigating pages one handed, is it easy?

tribble: could you try to look into some files? You could load this HTML file:

All there, quite some interesting information you can find there. :D

can any owner post pictures of themselves holding the reader one handed?


One picture (not of me but of my wife - mind you she has smaller hands than me) you'll find here:
http://static.flickr.com/53/189619048_265aa76016.jpg?v=0

As she is reading a book, the only navigation is page-forward/-backward which is easily done with one hand ("page-flip-bar").
Otherwise "navigation" to specific page, instead of next-previous, seems only possible with two hands (needs the pen).

rgds

Wiljo

[oops, forget it]

I think its way to big for holding it on your palm and having your fingers on both side (maybe if you are the long lost Yeti it might be able :) ) but you don't have to hold it like this.

I hold my PPC this way for reading but the ilead is much more like a book. You can hold it with one hand and flip the sides with the bar in a comfortable way. Now it is also clear why they don't made the backside of the ilead plain. Its very comfortable to grab the ilead with the "rough" backside.

All there, quite some interesting information you can find there. :D

Would you care to post this information? Pretty please with sugar. =)

Would you care to post this information? Pretty please with sugar. =)

Yap, just dont want to post images of all the info. Trying to use some javascript to send the info in textform to another machine in my lan. Lets see if that works. But i am kind of busy tonight, so dont expect it today. But there is quite some info to see. So i would say, the browser has root privileges. Lets see, what we can doo with that :D

and this month is the month of browser bugs :)
http://browserfun.blogspot.com/
(unfortunately focused on Internet Explorer)

this can't be a coincidence.

i'll move to the meditation thread for now.

... So i would say, the browser has root privileges. Lets see, what we can doo with that :D
are you sure about that? I doubt that they would make such a failure on a DRM machine. Otherwise ... *ouch*

are you sure about that? I doubt that they would make such a failure on a DRM machine. Otherwise ... *ouch*

Hm, it doesn't mean root privileges (on my debian, all these files are user-readable).

But even if, it doesn't mean drm is broken. There could be a crypto/tpm chip and some clever stuff in the kernel.

Hm, it doesn't mean root privileges (on my debian, all these files are user-readable).

Whoops. Except /var/log/messages of course, so this may be a hint for firefox running as root.

The browser seems to support all kinds of javascript. And i even could tak a look at the filestructure that way. I added an image, so you can see for yourself.

Thanks for the picture! You have made this Saturday a happy one!

and this month is the month of browser bugs :)
http://browserfun.blogspot.com/
(unfortunately focused on Internet Explorer)

this can't be a coincidence.

i'll move to the meditation thread for now.

It is not a bug Dher, but compliance with specifications of javascript and html forms. Any browser is expected to do it.

Of course bugs and exploits could lie ahead.

edit: I tried Firefox 2.0 beta and Gecko is version 1.8.1b1.

A lot of Gecko fanatics this year.

would it be possible to run java-based applets that do more than just display system info then?

@arivero

right. i just thought that for a well-known browser might exist an exploit to get a shell on the concerned computer (or iliad in that case)

we'll see when our iliads arrive :)

would it be possible to run java-based applets that do more than just display system info then?
Java and JavaScript are things which are totally different.
Java is a programming language and requires the Java Runtime Environment to be installed on the target system.
JavaScript is, like the name implies, a Scripting language and executed by the browser itself.

Read Wikipedia for more info, thats what i remembered for short.

would it be possible to run java-based applets that do more than just display system info then?

Commander, not officially. Javascript is restricted and it can not write in the system explicitly. But as Dher tells, and I agree with him, exploits could work. Could be a temporary method until the SDK appears.

Ah, but for instance, you can write a javascript to make better pagination. That is perfectly legal and could enhance your browsing experience.

@arivero

right. i just thought that for a well-known browser might exist an exploit to get a shell on the concerned computer (or iliad in that case)

we'll see when our iliads arrive :)

I am sorrry mine will take one week so I am coming late to the run. Yep I agree an exploit could happen easily.

[blabla...] could enhance your browsing experience.

Dude! You in Sales or Marketing?

:)

whom do you tell this?

I'm also still waiting for the shipping confirmation. :(

Dude! You in Sales or Marketing?

:)

No but I learnt english by reading commertial propaganda, er, PC journals :D

@arivero

right. i just thought that for a well-known browser might exist an exploit to get a shell on the concerned computer (or iliad in that case)

we'll see when our iliads arrive :)

Actually we are in a very peculiar situation: we want an exploit for a machine we own.

stupid idea i thought and it was:
file:///bin/bash or file:///usr/bin/gnome-terminal is not worth a try. Would have been to easy.

Firefox doesnt allow to execute local binaries, neither 1.5 nor 2.0 beta will do. Should be obvious, but i thought it would be worth a try.

what happens if you do it?

Does it open a "Save file to" dialogue or just throw up an error?

what happens if you do it?

Does it open a "Save file to" dialogue or just throw up an error?
i have to say, i tried that on Ubuntu here, but since the Iliad probably runs a Firefox 2.0 Alpha (if i compared the User agent correct) i thought it could react similar.

if you try the URLs, Firefox will open a "Save file to"-dialogue, but you have no option to choose to execute the file. I shouldn't even thought about that, for it is pretty obvious, that executing local applications from a browser would be a to great security risk.

Just tried it myself on a pc. You don't get a choice where to save it. :(
No cookie for this idea.

But there's one point: What happens if you put a link to "about:config" in your html file on your iliad?

if you can change the variable "browser.download.useDownloadDir" to false you get to choose where to save the file every time.

....?????
a lot of questions, you should ask tribble.
I'm just messing with theory here, since i have no Iliad, for now. But i would like to have control over it, so i like to figure how you could break into it.

edit: but keep up your idea with the "file save to" dialogue. maybe you are on the right way.

so far, some things to note:
A: get a USB-Keyboard and try to reach another VT (STRG+ALT+Fx)

B: add an init-script (potentially dangerous)
1. write your init-script somewhere you could reach with the iliads browser/html-viewer
2. get to about:config
3. set "browser.download.useDownloadDir" to false
4. manage to download your file
5. put it into the init-scripts folder

btw. Has anyone played around witht eh xeb viewer and the file-format yet? The "wurthering Heights" book looks good, the viewer isn't really finished, but it has a lot more features already implemented than any other viewer on the Iliad. So maybe that might be a good "interim" for actually reading something until the other viewers work sufficiently well...^^

Unfortunately, Wuther Heights is not exactly my favourite read...so I'm looking for ways to convert at least one or two books to xeb...:-)

Another thing:

If anybody has the Problem with SD card recognition:
For me it helps every time if I just take the card out and put it back in. Then the contents are displayed again. I hope this problem will be solved int the next Software! I'll aks iRex about it on Monday when they call for the "Teleconference".

If anybody has the Problem with SD card recognition:
For me it helps every time if I just take the card out and put it back in. Then the contents are displayed again. I hope this problem will be solved int the next Software! I'll aks iRex about it on Monday when they call for the "Teleconference".

Helps with my 1GB most of the time, cant get my 2GB to work at all.

@CommanderROR

I have played around with xeb files last night and managed to create one using the Chinese Apabi software.

Seems the program lets you add a directory of files txt, doc, html, jpg, gif and sort them. I cannot decipher the setting panel as all Chinese characters show up as question marks on my computer.

If you like, I can create some demo files that you can try on the Iliad. Something simple like a book containing text files or possibly jpg files for the notetaking feature.

Unfortunately I am working blind as the reader software crashes on a non Chinese computer, so it is not sure the files I create actually work :happy2:

This sort of thing is going to be what I will be playing with when I get my Iliad next week.

Wait...

Isn't Apabi the system listed as only supported in Asia?

or am I missing something?

Ok, a few more infos.
I think the thing about the ports 25 and 110 was bull. Seems, the portscanner wasnt that good. I found out, that there is a sshd running (dropbear) and that it is accessible during ids connection (only for a short period of time) and there also seems to be an open port 6000. Dont know, what that is for.

The network seems to be shut of again, after testing or ids connection is done.
i added a tcp-dump (wireshark) of the ids connection. (150 is the iliad, 99 the gateway)

Ok, a few more infos.
... there also seems to be an open port 6000. Dont know, what that is for.
6000 is usually X Windows. I hope it's secured properly ...

There's one minute of downtime in the dump, though: something you did while taking the dump? You pressed a reset or something? The device releases its DHCP address, and loses a response from the iRex site (i.e. the session is still active!). It eventually times out, and one minute after it dropped its IP address, it requests a new address, gets it, and starts over again. Shouldn't do that without good reason.

@Pitchfork

Maybe a chinese mobilereader can help us understand the .xeb software out there. I'll put up a thread in "Formats and Conversion" and see what happens...:-)

Thanks for your efforts.

Was somebody already able to activate the speakers? With headphones plugged in i can hear sounds but the build in speakers seem to be turned of by the OS?

I can' say Sischa. I turned the Sounds off right away (was the fiest thing I did when I received my Iliad), but I'll see whether I can hear sounds on mine tomorrow (if I don't forget)

No sounds here, at least not outside :) Havent tried headphones yet.

Ok, a few more infos.
I think the thing about the ports 25 and 110 was bull. Seems, the portscanner wasnt that good. I found out, that there is a sshd running (dropbear) and that it is accessible during ids connection (only for a short period of time)

But does ids connect to the sshd? I can not see it. It seems that everything is done via https requests to the server.

But does ids connect to the sshd? I can not see it. It seems that everything is done via https requests to the server.

How should it? The thing is designed to connect to iDS over a NAT bridge, so there can't be a incoming connection.

Wait...

Isn't Apabi the system listed as only supported in Asia?

or am I missing something?

It seems that they have negotiated with apabi to do the pdf reader. This explains, on the other hand, the slowness. Apabi, the company, had made a commertial pdf reader for Windows and perhaps this is a port to unix.

How should it? The thing is designed to connect to iDS over a NAT bridge, so there can't be a incoming connection.

True! One has the trend to forget this thing when the university campus still holds a whole static B-class range of IPs :happy2:

But does ids connect to the sshd? I can not see it. It seems that everything is done via https requests to the server.

Ids conntects only to https. At least for checking the version, as far as i can tell. I dont know, if the sshd gets used in the software update. But while you are updating, the iliad reacts to pings and you can connect to the sshd. But the network connection gets turned off after the update process. There is proabably a way to get the iliad to leave the network running, so you can do stuff via the ssh connection. But i dont know how.

And since the network gets turned off, i cant connect to links outside the iLiad, otherwise, that would probably work like a charm. But i guess i will have to take screens from the files. Anything you would like to see in particular?

runlevel 5 is standard

there it starts dropbear, pcmcia, syslog, mmc, cf, removes a nologin option and starts the iliad stuff.

they use xfbdev and Matchbox

they use xfbdev
pretty! I tryed to compile it for the Sony Librie but I failed miserabily and I was forced to use the xvfb along with a process continously dumping it (via its xwd mechanism) into the e-ink screen.

ok, i succeeded with creating 3 .xeb files.

could you please have a look with an iliad if it works?

the first 2 work with apabi reader 1.85 on windows, the third one crashes it :\

content:
test1.xeb - a jpeg
test2.xeb - a text file
test3.xeb - a html file

thanks.

Erm. could you please add xeb to the valid file extensions?

ok, i succeeded with creating 3 .xeb files.

could you please have a look with an iliad if it works?

the first 2 work with apabi reader 1.85 on windows, the third one crashes it :\

content:
test1.xeb - a jpeg
test2.xeb - a text file
test3.xeb - a html file

thanks.

Erm. could you please add xeb to the valid file extensions?

All work nicely, just as you made them. The html file actually looks quite nifty. nice font that has been used (mus be an apabi reader font)

I put a few notes on, maybe you will try and see i they can be seen in the reader.

ok, i succeeded with creating 3 .xeb files.

How?

Do you have the file format? From where?

pobably work like a charm. But i guess i will have to take screens from the files. Anything you would like to see in particular?

Nothing concrete, and still a lot of things. The whole rc.d directories and similar things to look for some hotkey or some console launch trick. The configuration file of X11 to see what keyboards and mice do they recognise. And so on. I am sorry my status is still "not shipped".

Just put some impressive pictures :cool: One of the virtual keyboard. And one of the syslog or the dmesg lauching all the stuff.


runlevel 5 is standard
there it starts dropbear, pcmcia, syslog, mmc, cf, removes a nologin option and starts the iliad stuff.
they use xfbdev and Matchbox

At the start of the syslog there should be a line telling the name of the version of the operating system; usually the name of some company making linux distributions for embedded system. I am curious about what company do they subcontract, if any.

@ali

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7009

in this thread is a link to PPublisher from apabi.
It's chinese, but by trial an error you can figure out how to create a .xeb

@tribble

thank you.
it's bad that you can't preview the html xeb on your pc. :(
could you please make a photo how it looks?

i'll try the annotations right now.
Edit:
Ok, it doesn't show the annotations in the reader. What a pity. I'll have a look at the additional annotation files.
Edit2:
Could you please show a photo of the annotations you made in the 3rd file?
i'd like to know what these columns in the .ink file mean.
Edit3:
Did it look somehow like this?
THat's the content in the .ink file, plotted.

WOOO i got mine

Some things from me:


I love the box.
I does not contain any documentation besides a ~10x10cm mini leaflet.
I hate the cabling. Look at the attached picture. The travel thing is a mess. Reasons:

the connection thing<->iliad is very very stiff, while the connector to the iliad is very very fragile.
the case is 15cm wide, with a small box with the actual hardware underneath it, of size 6.5cm.
cablings are sticking out to the left & right, so you can not have it dangling between your arms. this makes reading while recharging a mess. even if you read on a table with the travel thing placed on it, you first have to bend the connection cable, and then your arms are resting on the cables.

the travel thing makes it necessary to buy a (so far nonexistent) usb-to-iliad-connector cable if you want to access the iliad everywhere. so far, the software doesn't allow file operations (e.g., copy usb stick <-> internal memory)
wired ethernet is dhcp only, you cannot specify anything
reading scientific papers is not too much fun: I tried this paper (http://www.math.tu-bs.de/~ali/kroeller06deterministicboundary.pdf) (attention self-plug)

letter/a4 with 10pt is next to unreadable
render times are too long - flipping to page 2 of the abovementioned pdf takes 23 seconds (no joke, no decimal point forgotten). I guess I'll return to my idea of pre-rendered books.

That shouldn't sound so negative: I also agree with previous posters that the device is just great.

sweet.

what's the switching time with .xeb files?
Better, worse, comparable?

Don't forget to change your handheld information.

And when you are online atm:
Could you please draw a little bit in the test3.xeb and give me the resulting .ink file plus a photo of the screen? I believe it contains vector data about the stuff you have drawn.

One last: Are there hyperlinks in the third xeb file?

I does not contain any documentation besides a ~10x10cm mini leaflet.[/url]

Well, they should put in a note, where you can turn it on. And on the first power on, it should start the quickref automatically. But hey, maybe it will be done in the final version.



I hate the cabling. Look at the attached picture. The travel thing is a mess. Reasons:
the connection thing<->iliad is very very stiff, while the connector to the iliad is very very fragile.


Yes, the connector gives me a few worries, especially since the cable is very stiff. The connector could be a bit more stable. They should take that into consideration with the next verison of hardware.



wired ethernet is dhcp only, you cannot specify anything


I already sent an email to irex regarding the network setup without dhcp. Ill post the answer, when i get it.



reading scientific papers is not too much fun: I tried [url="http://www.math.tu-bs.de/%7Eali/kroeller06deterministicboundary.pdf"]this paper (http://www.math.tu-bs.de/%7Eali/kroeller06deterministicboundary.pdf)

I posted an image of a cropped version of a paper. I found it to be readable, but not very easily. Although uncropped it is still readable, your eyes will probably pop out after a few sentences. I hope they put in a crop mechanism (standard zoom for all pages). The PDF Viewer is xpdf btw.

what's the switching time with .xeb files?
Better, worse, comparable?


better, about 1.5-2.0 seconds


And when you are online atm:
Could you please draw a little bit in the test3.xeb and give me the resulting .ink file plus a photo of the screen? I believe it contains vector data about the stuff you have drawn.


Nope, I did something for myself. :) -- see attachment

the .ink really is just a sequence of stroke anchor points. I converted to ps via
#!/usr/bin/perl -w

print<<EOF;
%!PS-Adobe-3.0
%%BoundingBox: 0 0 595 841
%%PageMedia: a4
.2 .2 scale
EOF

$nstrokes=<STDIN>;
for(my $i=0; $i<$nstrokes; ++$i )
{
$npoints=<STDIN>;
for( my $j=0; $j<$npoints; ++$j )
{
($x,$y)=split(/\s+/,<STDIN>);
if( $j==0 ) { print("$x $y moveto ") }
else { print("$x $y lineto "); };
}
print("stroke\n");
}
print("showpage\n");

The original picture was screen-filling, the extremely long protruding spikes must be some sampling error at the screen boundary.

Anything you would like to see in particular?

Hmm I forget: Are we root, or just user?

If root, then please file:///etc/sudoers and file:///etc/shadow. If shadow does not exist, passwrd. I am curious if the passwords are crypt or MD5 (crypt passwords are shorter, about a dozen characters, and while we expect iRex to tell us our machine password we could entertain the week with a routine dictionary attack. MD5 are not so vulnerable, I think (I am not an expert :shy: )).

that's really, really cool.

i wanna have my iliad :(

especially the resolution seems to be shiny. what's the maximal value in each direction?

And how does writing feel? Do you think it could replace pen and paper if you are sitting in a lecture (writing continously for 1.5h)?

Finally creating a ToDo-list and a calendar as .xeb shouldn't be really hard.

The PDF Viewer is xpdf btw.

:surprised :wideeyed: :blink: so at the end no the one from the chinese guys. Amazing.

And how does writing feel? Do you think it could replace pen and paper if you are sitting in a lecture (writing continously for 1.5h)?


Honestly, don't know. There are two issues:

First, the back isn't planar. When you put it on a flat surface, it can "roll" a little bit to the left and right. For convenient writing, you'd have to put your hand onto the display with it's full weight, which scares me a little bit.

Second, the resolution isn't so super. You can't write really small. I expect the "hallo" on the postscript I poted to be average writing size, giving you 10-15 lines per screen.

>>so far, the software doesn't allow file operations
>>(e.g., copy usb stick <-> internal memory)

But it can read off a USB stick, right?
I don't need to go and buy another type of memory card just so I can read something when I get the Iliad, right?

But it can read off a USB stick, right?
I don't need to go and buy another type of memory card just so I can read something when I get the Iliad, right?

Yes, it can.

However, if you remove the stick, the file is gone -- you cannot let the iliad copy it to internal memory.

Has anyone tried the Export button in Word for the PPublisher 2.1 program

I have not received my Iliad yet as I live too far away from Irex, so I have to live procariously through you guys for another couple of days.

I would say, we are root. There is no sudoers, but there is a passwd in /etc/passwd for root. Ill add a picture in a bit.

The export button does exactly what it promises.

@tribble
great.

Ok, here a few images. They are really shabby, but i didnt have time to make better ones.

Linux version is: Linux version 2.4.19-rmk7-pxa2-irex1

and it's definitely running as root.

great.

export HOME=/home/root

/var/log/messages is not that much of an ifopool. It logs mainly all button pushes and url you visited. And it has lots of infos that th dhcpclient is trying to get information.
Doesnt show the heaps of info, that get logged during a normal linux boot.

I saw a couple of warning messegas from dropbear, with failed root logins :) didnt get the right pasword though.

Looking at the interfaces i see the usb eth interfaces. Think we can connect via usb to the iliad? dont know how to make an tcp/ip connection via usb. Any ideas?

Do we have an xterm? We could launch it from xpdf. Well, wait... no keyboard :-(

there seems to be a possibility for USB Networking (http://www.linux-migration.org/ch05s08.html thats a guide for Zaurus)

but what the heck do lines concerning Zaurus and iPaq in the iliad config file?

Edit: Never mind the rest.

USB Keyboard did nothing for me.

@arivero, we do have the touchscreen keyborad, but no f-keys.

tried to install an xpi on the browser, didnt work either, i guess they turned the save file option of somehow. I always get an errormessage.

Any way we get root acces via javascript and the gecko?

Ctrl-Alt-Backspace via onscreen does nothing. (I'm somewhat relieved... what when I worked but the only keyboard is an X onscreen one...)

there seems to be a possibility for USB Networking (http://www.linux-migration.org/ch05s08.html thats a guide for Zaurus)

but what the heck do lines concerning Zaurus and iPaq in the iliad config file?

Edit: Never mind the rest.

Only that interfaces mentiones a device does not say anything about whether that device actually exists. They obviously based their OS on OpenZaurus, Familar or something like that, and been too lazy to remove old (and inactive) configuration entries.

However, you have to prevent the host usb storage module from taking the usb device, and spawn usbnet instead -- that needs tweaking with files or a
HIDDEN DEBUG-MODE MAGIC SWITCH,
for crying out loud. I bet it exists. Something like pressing left and right simultanously when turning it on. (Wait, that means breaking the flip bar)

Nobody on this planet wants to develop a linux variant without being able to log into the machine.

Nobody on this planet wants to develop a linux variant without being able to log into the machine.
Thats what i was thinking, why do you think they have an sshd running?
Now we just have to find out the root passwd (btw, is it the same everywhere?) and get the iLiad to keep the network connection open. :)

on another note: did someone try a link to "about:config" yet?

on another note: did someone try a link to "about:config" yet?

Yes, but that didnt work. Do you know where the properties file is on a linux machine? Then we can read it directly (not change it though).

Or is ther another way to get to about:config via a link, maybe some javascript? CTRL-O to open a file didnt work either.

Yes, but that didnt work. Do you know where the properties file is on a linux machine? Then we can read it directly (not change it though).

/home/user/.mozilla/default/lalala.slt ...? Or are we talking about a different properties file...?

Maybe a chinese mobilereader can help us understand the .xeb software out there. I'll put up a thread in "Formats and Conversion" and see what happens...:-)

I've added a small bit about .xeb/.ceb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-book#Apabi) to the English Wikipedia entry on e-books. That might draw folks who know more about it and want to expand it, though I would not bet on it.

(BTW, I am not planning on getting a Iliad, I just like the feeding frenzy here.)

This pdf launchs xterm and xclock when used in an standard unix machine under xpdf (it asks for confirmation, do not worry). Try it to see if it opens the confirmation dialog. Just open it and click one of the links. The first one is an standard URL link, the two other are /Launch actions.

UPDATED: I have put some other links to experiment parameters, and attached the tex source. Note that it is to be created with pdftex, not with plain tex.

In fact, it looks like it's based around familiar linux (the Open Embedded generated distribution for iPAQs, similar to OpenZaurus).

And about the usb-eth, for using it between the iPAQ and a PC, it was as simple as modprobing usb-eth in the iPAQ and modprobing usbnet in the PC. Then you configure the usb0 device in both sides (with ifconfig, in the same way as you configure eth0), and voilà, you have networking using usb ;-).

It seems that the iliad has an static IP for usb, but we don't know if it has the usb-eth module loaded... what are the contents of /proc/modules ?

And another bit of info: in the screenshots tribble posted, it shows that it's using minimo (a stripped-down version of mozilla for the GPE environment, used i.e. in the GPE images for the zauruses). That is, it's not firefox.

Nobody on this planet wants to develop a linux variant without being able to log into the machine.
Sony did.

We were able to log it because a guy decoded the actualisation process, another one used the altered update to translate some dialogs to english, and then they did a small change to the rc.d scripts too. I think they did, not sony (I could be wrong because I do not read japanese blogs)

i never thought i would have to dig in the world of password cracking tools.

well, i did, i tried to run a dictionary attack on the password, and i succeeded. Well, more or less.

Actually there is now password set. =)

now you got your root password, tribble.
"root"
""

maybe you can try to login while checking iDS?

user root, password root ??? Most probably network logins are disabled, then.

err.
no password.
User: "root"
Password: ""

Edit2: no password cracking talk :)

Edit2: no password cracking talk :)
password :cool:

Well, if xpdf is unpatched, the pdf file attached six messages (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32742&postcount=201) above should be enough.

My guess would have been: "homer", "god", "zeus", "root", "", "henk". In that order.

but i think it would be boring if the iliad is cracked *before* i can hold it in my hands.

nonetheless, great work with this pdf.

hm, what was the usual way of dealing with empty passwords on linux systems? Doesn't that usually leave a account disabled?

lol, password works, you can login via ssh during the testing or update for ids. but you only have a short amount of time till network closes :)

well...you'd need to do some kind of big download or limit the bandwidth of your connection so the process takes extra-long...

but if you play around during update, you might very well brick your device...

lol, password works, you can login via ssh during the testing or update for ids. but you only have a short amount of time till network closes :)

the standard trick now is to put the commands in a .shell before, and use the login to execute the shell. I still believe that the pdf should exec too.

of course the first command we want, is to get the network up again :D

yap, i dont want to risk breaking anything. so we have to find some gentle way.

But since irex put an sshd on the iliad, i bet it is just a little present for us. They must have some way to keep the network up and running for longer.

As for the pdf file. No luck there, it does nothing i can see.

and for the running modules:
mmc_pxa
mmc_bloc
mmc_core
mscd
pdc
usb-storage
scsi_mod
cf8385
cfio
phci
hal
ide-probe-mod
ide-disk
ide-cs
ide-mod

those are listed in /proc/modules

YAY

we can either add an init.d script to activate the network interface on startup or add a hourly cron job. I spend not enough time with linux to get one of those two right on the first try, but someone else can for sure. pretty please?

If I were iRex I would either be worried, or actively trying to recruit you lot.

render times are too long - flipping to page 2 of the abovementioned pdf takes 23 seconds (no joke, no decimal point forgotten). I guess I'll return to my idea of pre-rendered books.

Don't take too much account of this: it's not representative unless you include illustrations that must be rendered on the fly in your books. Page 2 has two of them (figure 1b and 1c): even on a pretty fast system that page feels slow. Other illustrations in the paper seem to be bitmaps, though, so page 2 is certainly worst case. (I think I find image masks in here as well: that almost certainly adds to processing time, especially if you remember that the iLiad does not have a FPP unit.)

The document is also unusual in that I count 22 typefaces in 10 A4 pages ...
I can't say for certain how much that does, but it is probably going to stress the font bitmap cache a bit -- though page 2 is hardly exceptional here.

Pre-rendering will improve speed for this document, no doubt about that. But I don't really think the document is representative for most iLiad users.
But it is a pretty good illustration that special care has to be taken in preparing iLiad versions of PDF documents.

YAY

we can either add an init.d script to activate the network interface on startup or add a hourly cron job. I spend not enough time with linux to get one of those two right on the first try, but someone else can for sure. pretty please?

First one should wonder about this misterious /usr/bin/wireless.sh stop

As for the pdf file. No luck there, it does nothing i can see.

:( :( :( perhaps they have patched it. It works in my xpdf (version 3.1 according xpdf -v) but it could be a compilation option.


and for the running modules:
mmc_pxa
mmc_bloc
mmc_core
mscd
pdc
usb-storage
scsi_mod
cf8385
cfio
phci
hal
ide-probe-mod
ide-disk
ide-cs
ide-mod

Seem pretty common. cf8385 is the one of the wifi, I guess. Wonder which the display is, but we do not need to worry, having X as we have. If the version of glibc is compatible, we could even try Nokia770 binaries directly.

erm. forget