Hey Guys,
great work so far!
Great teamworking, I'd say. Actually I was out home this morning, so I missed the compilation of the new pdf file. For starters, it is to be compiled with pdftex (or pdflatex in the new version), not with tex. You can add icons if you wish, simply standard tex thing.


Root Access to the Iliad, what do we want more, apart from WPA Encryption and a VPN Access ^^


A good point: NOBODY SHOULD TRY the root access if the machine is in a huge local network, vulnerable to worm attacks from other machines. Any worm nearby can guess the password.


To answer your question Ali:
With a double click to the link you spawn a question dialog which is only visible after you do a manual page refresh, e.g. by clicking the keyboard button.

After you've confirmed the dialog you may access the iliad via a ssh-connection by using username: root and no password.


Well abstracted. I was wondering why the pdf was not working in the first attempt; interesting to know that they do not refresh the screen at every change, this is a curious portability issue.


Hope that helps.

Keep up the good work!

Greets
Kristoffer

BTW:
Don't you think it's time to split this thread? I found it very hard to find the information i wanted so I read the whole thread. And as is keeps growing steadily that won't be so easy in a matter of time...[/QUOTE]

Well abstracted. I was wondering why the pdf was not working in the first attempt; interesting to know that they do not refresh the screen at every change, this is a curious portability issue.

I guess we will have to find out, how the screen gets refreshed :)
And how to get access to the buttons, and how to make our own interface :D
ok, its going to my head :rolleyes5

Well abstracted. I was wondering why the pdf was not working in the first attempt; interesting to know that they do not refresh the screen at every change, this is a curious portability issue.


AFAIK Xlib doesn't have a "commit", so the X server doesn't know when screen drawing is finished. You need to tell it manually that drawing is finished and an update has to be done (like curses/ncurses).

maybe they have an /usr/bin/updatescreen.sh ;)

That was really, really great work. Especially using a pdf for launching applications - a great idea.

technicality of the forum is beyond my means, I have though one question: is it possible to send notes from Iliade to one's tablet in OneNote?

Well, till now you can either get a file with point coordinates that determine the lines you have drawn or get an image file.

Direct communication with OneNote isn't possible, maybe you can import one of those two things.

They also have ipkg. So should I be able to install some Zaurus X-application on the sd-card and run them???

Hmmm..I think it's time to find out how to backup the whole thing before something goes wrong...

You can use an secure ftp client to acces the machine.
And you can surf the net :)
But we need a address line and a back and forward button.

I wonder if we still get in once OS Version 2.5 hits us.

And i havent seen a screenupdate.sh :D

Thats a good point actually...

All this hacking about is being discussed in a public forum, that iRex claim to keep an eye on (I doubt this). So it's conceivable that they will keep an eye out for things they need to secure...

machines that are hackable tend to be popular once the enthusiasts start coding cool apps for them.

which reason does iRex Technologies have to lock down the Iliad? Prevent us from creating cool new applications or using the Iliad for things he isn't supposed to be used for (yet)?

It's not like we want to break the DRM or something like this.

@tribble:
is wget installed?
running a recursive wget every morning on my favourite news site would make my day.

And you can surf the net :)

I just did and I have to say that due to manual screen refresh and invisible typing this is only for the hardest geeks...

But I might make a personal index page with links to some newsreaders and bulleting boards...

which reason does iRex Technologies have to lock down the Iliad?

I would not say that they locked it if they run a secure shell and don't use a root password. Maybe they should really join this forum. Would be interesting.

I think i expressed it wrong. Which reason does iRex have to change the current situation with the next software update? It's great the way it is at the moment.

Maybe they should really join this forum. Would be interesting.

thats's true. They could tell us how to refresh the screen, maybe even give us a make file for creating our own programs. Wait, that would actually be the content of the SDK they want to release :)

@tribble:
is wget installed?
running a recursive wget every morning on my favourite news site would make my day.

Your lucky :D
Wget is installed, just used it to get some pdfs from my server :cool: :cool:

Just created a bookmark page with three, maybe useful links for online surfing on the iLiad to

mobileread.com - iLiad forum
heise.de - pda newsticker
buch.de - e-Book list

let's see if iRex makes the web browser official, finally :)

adding a forward button, a back button and an adress bar shouldn't be this hard.

any one tried running a Zaurus app on it?

I hesitate to ask this, but it's a question that I've had for a couple of years now: will a magnet cause the e-ink to switch states (black to white or reverse)?

Logically, it ought to work, as a magnetic field is an electrical field too. One end ought to "write" and the other "erase." If it does, then the next logical question is can the backplane be adjusted to read the marks and capture them -- without the use of a touch screen. 'Course, we won't be able to answer that one here.

I've never seen any suggestion that e-ink is damagable by magnetic fields, and I hope they would tell us if it were, so it ought to be safe enough ... but I'd use a weak magnet.

If anyone is brave enough to try it, please let me know what happens.

let's see if iRex makes the web browser official, finally :)

adding a forward button, a back button and an adress bar shouldn't be this hard.

I just created a frameset you can use for Browsing. Here it is...

any one tried running a Zaurus app on it?

*cough* abookreader would be good... :-)

Might require you to understand japanese to do so...

I hesitate to ask this, but it's a question that I've had for a couple of years now: will a magnet cause the e-ink to switch states (black to white or reverse)?

Logically, it ought to work, as a magnetic field is an electrical field too. One end ought to "write" and the other "erase." If it does, then the next logical question is can the backplane be adjusted to read the marks and capture them -- without the use of a touch screen. 'Course, we won't be able to answer that one here.

I've never seen any suggestion that e-ink is damagable by magnetic fields, and I hope they would tell us if it were, so it ought to be safe enough ... but I'd use a weak magnet.

If anyone is brave enough to try it, please let me know what happens.

A weak magnet do not reverse the eink. I have tested in all the magnets I had at home.

wow very daring of you arivero

any one tried running a Zaurus app on it?

Only Zaurus GPE-like applications could work, the other ones use Qtopia.

Also there is the question of library compatibility. For instance the Nokia 770 2006 release is kernel 2.6.12 under gcc 3.4.2(this is only important for modules), libncurses 5.4 and libc 2.3.6. Usually the most critical thing is the libc.

My illiad is still paid not shipped :( so I can not test the portability across different arm architectures.

any one tried running a Zaurus app on it?

Not succesful, but I am no expert here. Tried to unpack an ipk...:

Cannot change ownership to uid 1000, gid 100: Operation not permitted

wow very daring of you arivero
deadite, note my avatar left here. I was not risking any screen. In fact I wished to have a method to write in this piece of broken eink.

Only Zaurus GPE-like applications could work, the other ones use Qtopia.

I think the apps from pdaxrom.org (http://www.pdaxrom.org/ipk_feed.php?menuid=11) should work.

I just created a frameset you can use for Browsing. Here it is...
Good IDea! This and some nice javascript for page down/up would do the trick.

which reason does iRex Technologies have to lock down the Iliad? Prevent us from creating cool new applications or using the Iliad for things he isn't supposed to be used for (yet)?

It's not like we want to break the DRM or something like this.


Yes, they can keep the DRM at the level of propietary software, no problem here.

I agree that iRex team seems more enthusiast about linux that, er, Sony. It took one year to crack into the librie (japanese hackers, there are not) and there was no clue of a decent X server inside nor any communication tool (the hacker entering there did a tunnel across USB, no ppp avalaible neither).

In fact while I expect we iReX will not raise issues about programming the machine, the trick we are using to activate the network can cause some headaches to Sony... as far as I know, acrobat reader also complies the \Launch specification of pdf. So perhaps we are causing a shipping delay... for the Sony Reader.

Good IDea! This and some nice javascript for page down/up would do the trick.

Up? Down? There are pagebreaks, what do you mean?

you can't imagine how sorry i am for sony. =)

but that's interesting. the new sony reader is also running linux?


another question:

is it possible to enter something in html forms with the onscreen keyboard?

A weak magnet do not reverse the eink. I have tested in all the magnets I had at home.

Oh, well, it seemed like a good idea! Thanks for trying it out, now I can stop wondering about it.

So ... where did you get that broken piece of e-ink, anyway? Or perhaps I don't want to know. :huh:

this broken piece of e-ink is the reason why he's buying the Iliad, i think.

this broken piece of e-ink is the reason why he's buying the Iliad, i think.

If that's so, then I probably don't want to know. :D

Up? Down? There are pagebreaks, what do you mean?

I mean, people has been asking for better pagination in the HTML browser. Dont ask me why, just I read it in some post before and I do not get what the problem is, but I guess that it can be controlled via javascript with some extra buttons as the ones you have added.

you can't imagine how sorry i am for sony. =)

but that's interesting. the new sony reader is also running linux?

I expect so. It seems just a repackaged librie. And any case, pdf execution is also honoured in Windows (with parameters in the \P), so I guess even windows CE will. It is not technically a hole because it asks the user before executing; it is only a problem for those companies not willing to give the owner the control of the machine.

If that's so, then I probably don't want to know. :D
Actually I do not know, neither. I was drunken, and I was carrying the librie in the coat pocket without any protective cover. I thing it was some kind of flexion, not a direct hit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/72166458@N00/97266474/

Actually I do not know, neither. I was drunken, and I was carrying the librie in the coat pocket without any protective cover. I thing it was some kind of flexion, not a direct hit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/72166458@N00/97266474/
Now that is a classic anti-drinking public service message!

I agree that iRex team seems more enthusiast about linux that, er, Sony. It took one year to crack into the librie (japanese hackers, there are not) and there was no clue of a decent X server inside nor any communication tool (the hacker entering there did a tunnel across USB, no ppp avalaible neither).

In fact while I expect we iReX will not raise issues about programming the machine, the trick we are using to activate the network can cause some headaches to Sony... as far as I know, acrobat reader also complies the \Launch specification of pdf. So perhaps we are causing a shipping delay... for the Sony Reader.
The Sony Reader does use Linux, according to their web page, anyway. I haven't been able to identify the version, unfortunately, but everyone else seems to be using 2.4, so I suppose it's as good a wild guess as any.

I'm wondering if Sony might actually be less concerned about hacking on the Reader than we might guess -- after all, that would be where other reader software would most likely come from, which would increase the scope of usability (and therefore demand) for the device....

Wishful thinking, perhaps -- I guess we'll just have to hack the rascal and see how they react to know for sure. :)

Now that is a classic anti-drinking public service message!

On the other hand, it induced me to buy an iLiad.

Their official stance will be against. As to whether that also their private stance is another question.

I think the apps from pdaxrom.org (http://www.pdaxrom.org/ipk_feed.php?menuid=11) should work.

Could be; it seems a good option to try. But I do not like to try everything as root, perhaps it is a good idea to have an user account created.

I just run successfully the console application uptime which I copied from my Zaurus onto an SD card. So I think that we are binary compatible with the C860 at least...

I just run successfully the console application uptime which I copied from my Zaurus onto an SD card. So I think that we are binary compatible with the C860 at least...
which means, we have access to loads of Zaurus software. (if thats true) cool.

@dher: Yes entering text in html forms is possible. I used it to load any page i want, so we can make a javascript browser interface :) But i would like it a bit nicer.

which means, we have access to loads of Zaurus software. (if thats true) cool.

Well I looked into the Zaurus bin directory, copied uptime onto the sd card, put the sd card into the iLiad and executed it using the ssh connection. As it did output me the uptime and the average load status I assumed that it worked. But I am really too stupid to do more than that.

But wait, maybe there is an uptime app already installed on the iLiad and I executed the original one instead of the Zaurus one. Hmmm...please someone else try it out.

EDIT: Hmmm..actually there is another uptime app on the iLiad and I do not know what I did execute. So I am out of here...

Sorry if this is a stupid question...but there is lot going on here that is way beyond my understanding...:-)

Can anyone see a way to disable the WiFi yet? That would be a cool trick to extend battery-life until iRex comes up with some porper power-saving...

Another question: Is there now a sudoko game on iLiad or not?

still waiting for my iliad .... :(

Another question: Is there now a sudoko game on iLiad or not?

Not on mine. But there is an empty games folder somewhere in the file system...

Can anyone see a way to disable the WiFi yet? That would be a cool trick to extend battery-life until iRex comes up with some porper power-saving...

If i understood it correctly, WiFi IS disabled all the time, except when it connects to iDS (when does it do this???).

PS: @all you hackers: Great work! Could anyone download the complete / via SCP or SFTP and put it into a nice TGZ for the "Paid not shipped" ones :)
Would be cool.

Well I looked into the Zaurus bin directory, copied uptime onto the sd card, put the sd card into the iLiad and executed it using the ssh connection. As it did output me the uptime and the average load status I assumed that it worked. But I am really too stupid to do more than that.

But wait, maybe there is an uptime app already installed on the iLiad and I executed the original one instead of the Zaurus one. Hmmm...please someone else try it out.

EDIT: Hmmm..actually there is another uptime app on the iLiad and I do not know what I did execute. So I am out of here...

What does "whereis uptime" give you...? If you are in the same directory as *your* uptime, do "./uptime"

If i understood it correctly, WiFi IS disabled all the time, except when it connects to iDS (when does it do this???).

As i see it, WiFi is constantly on, just the network connection gets turned on and off. Correct me if i am wrong.

As i see it, WiFi is constantly on, just the network connection gets turned on and off. Correct me if i am wrong.
Could you post the WiFi-Start-Stop Script?

Edit: Let's move here ==> http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7034

Can anyone see a way to disable the WiFi yet? That would be a cool trick to extend battery-life until iRex comes up with some porper power-saving...

Presumably, an 'iwpriv' private command. (There is an iwpriv binary in there? Run it, and see what private commands it has.)

which means, we have access to loads of Zaurus software. (if thats true) cool.

Hmm here I have the pnmtools/netpbm plus djvu page extraction (http://djvulibre.djvuzone.org/), to be used from line interface, compiled for ARM with libc and libm 2.2.3, thus older libraries. I am not sure if there is compatibility between 2.2 and 2.3 but someone can try.

http://dftuz.unizar.es/~rivero/lbdjvu.tgz

Example:

ls -al | pbmtext | pnmdepth 255 | pnmscalefixed -width=600 -height=800> result.pnm
takes about 1.5 and 2.2 seconds in a machine with 98.09 bogomips loop.

What does "whereis uptime" give you...? If you are in the same directory as *your* uptime, do "./uptime"

Ok, I was wrong. :-(

./uptime: error while loading shared libraries: libproc-3.2.4.so:

Ok, I was wrong. :-(

./uptime: error while loading shared libraries: libproc-3.2.4.so:

Yeah, welcome to the wonderful world of dynamic linking.

Another point: Most (graphical) Zaurus software is for Qtopia, not X11. The console stuff should run in a chroot.

Another point: Most (graphical) Zaurus software is for Qtopia, not X11. The console stuff should run in a chroot.

There is a big X11 project running X on Zaurus: www.pdaxrom.org
They have a feed with compiled X11 apps...

Hi,

I'm especially interested in using the iliad to read papers from scientific publications.
Can anyone post a picture/video/comment about viewing scientific pdf's (e.g. Nature, Science, etc...)?

Does one have to do any conversion before?

Does the iliad rescale the A4 page to fit A5?

Thanks,

Alex

Another question: Is there now a sudoko game on iLiad or not?
I think that when Irex were talking about Sudoku, they were talking about a book of Sudoku puzzles, not about a Sudoku application. You can find many generators on the web, just Google for Sudoku generator. This one (http://www.lemo.dk/sudoku/pdf.php) for instance creates a PDF book of puzzles for you, including a page with solutions.

My first post got probably lost in the shuffle, but one of my questions regarding the HTML-reader formats was answered with it being Minimo, which gives me a good idea of its capacities.

However there's still the other question:
- Is there a true, icon-free fullscreen mode in any of the current viewers?

Any answer much appreciated,
P.

P.S.: This thread "Questions for new Iliad owners" has become mostly focused on hacking it, perhaps it would be a good idea to split it into separate threads?

(deleted)

Hi,

I'm especially interested in using the iliad to read papers from scientific publications.
Can anyone post a picture/video/comment about viewing scientific pdf's (e.g. Nature, Science, etc...)?

Does one have to do any conversion before?

Does the iliad rescale the A4 page to fit A5?

Thanks,

Alex

Me too - a few weeks ago Henrycat, who was among the first to get an early test version (same hardware, several software versions ago) tried out a PNAS paper for me, and reported that the readability was good - i.e. the figs looked fine. PDF reader zoom is likely to be important, and I think that is comin soon, if it is not already there. The rotate feature has also been discussed, though not promised, perhaps. That would be great. When I get mine (am in the US, order #500) I will post pictures with scientific papers - if you have a specific one you want to see, post/PM me the PMID.

PDF reader zoom is likely to be important, and I think that is comin soon, if it is not already there.

It must be. The problem is that xpdf is full screen with no buttons. It is something related to the xresources but I can not find out what it is. It is clear than the people at iRex have mangled with it (they say win* instead of xpdf* in the iLiad settings file at /etc) but I do not know if it is at the level of config files or directly in the binary.

It should be worth to check if xpdf launched from the shell appears in full screen too and/or if it admits the -z option.

If it can be launched from the shell in a decent way, then we can put some separate launch icon in our pdf trick so people will not need to modify the config of their machines.

Me too - a few weeks ago Henrycat, who was among the first to get an early test version (same hardware, several software versions ago) tried out a PNAS paper for me, and reported that the readability was good - i.e. the figs looked fine. PDF reader zoom is likely to be important, and I think that is comin soon, if it is not already there. The rotate feature has also been discussed, though not promised, perhaps. That would be great. When I get mine (am in the US, order #500) I will post pictures with scientific papers - if you have a specific one you want to see, post/PM me the PMID.

Thanks oliver, I'd just like to see a standard article or letter from Nature and Science on the iliad. For instance PMID 15665877 Those journals use very small type. I figure it will impossible to view without zoom...

Just got this mail from iRex

Thank you for your interest in our solutions for electronic reading.
Because of the large number of reactions, it takes some time to answer all information requests.
We do apologies for this late reaction.


In answer to your questions I would like to inform you that unfortunatly the iLiad only support DHCP and it is not possible to set a static IP into the iLiad at this stage. This functionality may be added through future software releases.


We are aware that some SD cards are not well recognized and the next software release version 2.5 will improve this.

Question: How comfortable is the stylus to use? I think it's a bit thin, so I guess it's ok for short periods of time, but if you annotate/use it for a while, does your hand get cramped? My boss has an HP tablet PC, with a really nice Wacom pen, I'm wondering if I should get one like that eventually (if it works on the iLiad, it should, right?), although I know I'll have to take the iLiad stylus out of its case to write anyway. :rolleyes:

With this version of the software, how exactly do I get content saved on the Iliad?

It's my understanding that I cannot save files off a USB stick or a memory card, right? Can I copy from computer to Iliad at this point? And that's only through a network connection?

I don't have a network set up, just one computer with a (haha!) dial-up internet connection. Do I need to install a network card and set up a one-computer network so I can hook up the Iliad to it and transfer content?

(Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere else, but this forum has expanded to a degree where I have a hard time finding specific information, wiki or no wiki... If somebody could just point me in the right direction...) Thanks!

You can put content onto the iLiad, by connecting it to the computer via travelhub an USB.
Or you can put your files on USB stick, CF or CD card, plug them into the iLiad and read from there.

Question: How comfortable is the stylus to use?

I think it's not too comfortable. When you hold the pen perfectly upright, the drawing appears perfectly at the pen's tip. At the angle I'm holding the pen, the writing appears about 2-3mm right of the tip, which makes all letters that are drawn in multiple strokes look funny.

You can put content onto the iLiad, by connecting it to the computer via travelhub an USB.

Ah, thanks, I kept overlooking that, all I saw was the "USB port cannot be used for USB connection to computer" bit - silly me...

Thanks, Ali. :D

I think it's not too comfortable. When you hold the pen perfectly upright, the drawing appears perfectly at the pen's tip. At the angle I'm holding the pen, the writing appears about 2-3mm right of the tip, which makes all letters that are drawn in multiple strokes look funny.

Recalibrate with your usual pen holding position. This is because of the Wacom resonance mechanism.

Recalibrate with your usual pen holding position. This is because of the Wacom resonance mechanism.

Um, wow! Yes! Recalibrate!

How do I do that?

Just got this mail from iRex

It is sensible. An static IP with an open X11 and trivial root password is a huge security problem. In fact auch dynamical IP in a big organisation is already a worm nest.

Um, wow! Yes! Recalibrate!
How do I do that?

Er???? Is is factory-calibrated only? Well, now I understand that it is pre-release software.

Thanks oliver, I'd just like to see a standard article or letter from Nature and Science on the iliad. For instance PMID 15665877 Those journals use very small type. I figure it will impossible to view without zoom...

@ armadillo

My iLiad arrived yesterday, so I uploaded the paper you indicated and took some pics today. In the meantime I have also experimented with several other scientific pdfs. Currently the pdf viewer does not have a zoom function, and so this is limited. One way to maximize the viewing is to crop the pdf as tight as possible. For some reason, some pdfs don't allow that, including the one you picked - possible a DRM issue? So, I would say that this is not easy to read at all, at the moment. When the pdf upgrades to include zoom, I can report back.

The attached image doesn't quite do the text sharpness justice. But you can see the large amount of whitespace around the rim, which I can get rid off with most other pdfs.

I have been reading the iLiad postings for months now - I am very interested in this device, but have one specific use in mind. I am a scientist and want to use the iLiad to read scientific pdf files that I download from scientific journals. These pdf files are generaly formatted to print on 8.5 x 11 inch paper. Would these files be readable on this device?

Oliverbogler apparently did try to read a science pdf but indicated that zooming would be necessary and cropping of excess white space. This is a bit more work than desired to make the device really useful.

It is my impression, based on the videos and screen shots that I have seen, that zooming and navigating no a page would be a difficult way to read these files. Based on the photo of the first page of the paper posted by Oliverbogler, could it be that the zoom feature would could be controlled to just remove the white margin? Perhaps a "custom" program to reformat these pdfs could be created?

Hi Seer-Sight. I'm afraid that you will be disappointed by the Iliad when I read your demands correctly. Indeed do I think you will need a zoom function as I do. Especially with schematics. I have a number of documents with complex class diagrams etc and they are unreadable with the current functionality. You could try for a custom program of course but in view of the recent efforts of Irex (producer of the Iliad) to tighten security you do not have any guarantees the custom program will keep working. Only thing here left is to wait for Irex to build in the functionality (I think they will find something for it). Maybe the developers’ facilities (SDK) which will be released coming half year will result in something useful.

I have some experience now. Although not having a zoom I like the thing and find it useful. I hope they will really facilitate developers and open up the system. As you can see here on the site there are enough brilliant hackers that can do almost anything. (Maybe they can rebuild the Iliad to do the vacuum cleaning ;-))

I'll add my two cents here. Although we are talking about 'zoom', what will really be needed for best performance is what I think Adobe calls 'reflow' for a document. The difference is with zoom some information will be off the page. With reflow, font sizes will remain the same regardless of page size and will 'flow' around images, etc. as needed. In the former, you need to 'move around' the screen to see the whole page. With the latter, the text reformats itself in a legible size to fit the screen size you have.

Question for a user with a Palm and Documents to Go - when you transfer a .pdf file, you only need to scroll veritically, not horizontally, right? I think the concept for the Iliad would need to be the same.

I tried loading a Scientific American magazine I have as a .pdf. You can read it, but barely due to the font size shrinking to show the whole page. To me, zoom is not an elegant solution - reflowing the text to fit the available screen is

(this is why in the .pdf discussions people use a page size of 120 x 150 mm - to get the font sizes to render at approximately the expected size).

I tried loading a Scientific American magazine I have as a .pdf. You can read it, but barely due to the font size shrinking to show the whole page. To me, zoom is not an elegant solution - reflowing the text to fit the available screen is

Using the Picsel Browser as viewer on a PDA you drag the document around and zoom in and out of it. It's surprising, how good you can read even big documents this way. But of course the Picsel Browser is insanely fast when pushing and zooming around the document...

Using the Picsel Browser as viewer on a PDA you drag the document around and zoom in and out of it. It's surprising, how good you can read even big documents this way. But of course the Picsel Browser is insanely fast when pushing and zooming around the document...

I cn imagine, that such a dragging feature would be great to use on the iLiad. Even, when you cant see the drag, it is an easy and intuitive way to move through a page.

I have been reading the iLiad postings for months now - I am very interested in this device, but have one specific use in mind. I am a scientist and want to use the iLiad to read scientific pdf files that I download from scientific journals. These pdf files are generaly formatted to print on 8.5 x 11 inch paper. Would these files be readable on this device?

Oliverbogler apparently did try to read a science pdf but indicated that zooming would be necessary and cropping of excess white space. This is a bit more work than desired to make the device really useful.

It is my impression, based on the videos and screen shots that I have seen, that zooming and navigating no a page would be a difficult way to read these files. Based on the photo of the first page of the paper posted by Oliverbogler, could it be that the zoom feature would could be controlled to just remove the white margin? Perhaps a "custom" program to reformat these pdfs could be created?

The quick answer is that at the moment PDFs that can be cropped aggressively are just readable. Ones that cannot, border on the unreadable, IMO and with my eyes (just turned 40 and everything is getting blurrier...).

Croppability depends on the source of the pdf - most journals allow it, but for example, Nature ones do not. If you have a specific example in mind, please send it to me or post it, and I can try it and upload a photo.

Reflow would be better, and would work great for some journals. I tried this with a random sample of the pdfs I have of scientific papers, and it only worked with a very few - those that provide a pdf of the typesetting information, I guess. Many however have pdfs that are images of a page. (The ones I reflowed, were exportable to html and thence to a word processor and could be made into a more readable document, but that took as long as it might to read half the paper - so not a good time investment.) If the iLiad PDF viewer gains reflow capability, that would be great - but only in a few cases. Zoom is likely to be more useful - a key would be to have good navigation around the zoomed document.

For me the cropping works best, and I can now read papers on a plane, or anywhere, and can carry hundreds with me, and not have to print and waste time, paper and ink. The 16 grays do make a difference, as does the size, when compared to Sony.

The quick answer is that at the moment PDFs that can be cropped aggressively are just readable. Ones that cannot, border on the unreadable, IMO and with my eyes (just turned 40 and everything is getting blurrier...).

How does one crop a PDF?

I thought that the whole point of PDF was to prevent the user from "tampering" with the document.

Ok - someone talked about exporting a .pdf to .htm. I checked Scientific American, and you can save the file to .txt. When I opened the file, it seemed there was still a lot of coding buried in the text. So I tried changing the file extension from .txt to .htm to see what happened. I used Open Office and it asked what filter I wanted to use, and gave me a LONG list. So, for those experts out there, any idea when Adobe exports to text what format it is really supplying? I hate to try checking through all of them to see what happens. OTOH, this might be a solution for one magazine at least - inelegant, but a solution.

Question for a user with a Palm and Documents to Go - when you transfer a .pdf file, you only need to scroll veritically, not horizontally, right? I think the concept for the Iliad would need to be the same.
The Palm Acrobat Reader converts the text to just a flow, so yes, you only scroll up/down.

EXCEPT -- pictures are converted to thumbnails and if you want to see them you do a "tap and hold" which pulls them up in a pan mode, which does include left/right scrolling (using tap-drag with the stylus). It's a reasonable compromise, I suppose. The scrolling is pretty quick, but the zooming seems to be a bit limited.

The Palm Acrobat Reader converts the text to just a flow, so yes, you only scroll up/down.

EXCEPT -- pictures are converted to thumbnails and if you want to see them you do a "tap and hold" which pulls them up in a pan mode, which does include left/right scrolling (using tap-drag with the stylus). It's a reasonable compromise, I suppose. The scrolling is pretty quick, but the zooming seems to be a bit limited.


Soooo, if the primary interest is in reading the text of a magazine reasonably formated, this is a solution, but if the graphics are a major part of the magazine it isn't an ideal solution? For example, Harvard Business Review is workable, People Magazine isn't?

.... we are talking about 'zoom', what will really be needed for best performance is what I think Adobe calls 'reflow' for a document. The difference is with zoom some information will be off the page.....

Hmmm that would not solve my problem with PDF. I would like to have zoom and it is no problem info/text/drawings are not shown because it just falls off the screen because of the zoom. As long as I can scroll left right top bottom it is no problem.
I have a lot of documents I constantly need which contain (amoung other schemas and diagrams) some sort of class diagrams. Unreadable now with the Iliad. I need that zoom.....please?

PS. Attached is such a file.....

The quick answer is that at the moment PDFs that can be cropped aggressively are just readable. Ones that cannot, border on the unreadable, IMO and with my eyes (just turned 40 and everything is getting blurrier...).

Croppability depends on the source of the pdf - most journals allow it, but for example, Nature ones do not. If you have a specific example in mind, please send it to me or post it, and I can try it and upload a photo.

Reflow would be better, and would work great for some journals. I tried this with a random sample of the pdfs I have of scientific papers, and it only worked with a very few - those that provide a pdf of the typesetting information, I guess. Many however have pdfs that are images of a page. (The ones I reflowed, were exportable to html and thence to a word processor and could be made into a more readable document, but that took as long as it might to read half the paper - so not a good time investment.) If the iLiad PDF viewer gains reflow capability, that would be great - but only in a few cases. Zoom is likely to be more useful - a key would be to have good navigation around the zoomed document.

For me the cropping works best, and I can now read papers on a plane, or anywhere, and can carry hundreds with me, and not have to print and waste time, paper and ink. The 16 grays do make a difference, as does the size, when compared to Sony.

Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response to my query. You seem to indicate that cropping makes most pdfs readable. I am uncertain how to crop pdfs but I will give it a try - I would agree that zoom would be okay if, for example you could easily move from the bottom to the top of subsequent columns on a page, much like you would move your eyes if reading the paper version of a column formatted document. I have no idea if this feature would be encoded in the browsing device or in the pdf itself. I am very much hoping that the iLiad will prove useful as a pdf reader - based on your comment, it seems you are making it work for you - I know that many of my grad students and colleagues would definitely find this device useful in handling the virtual landslide of published manuscripts that constantly require our attention each day.

Hi Seer-Sight. I'm afraid that you will be disappointed by the Iliad when I read your demands correctly. Indeed do I think you will need a zoom function as I do. Especially with schematics. I have a number of documents with complex class diagrams etc and they are unreadable with the current functionality. You could try for a custom program of course but in view of the recent efforts of Irex (producer of the Iliad) to tighten security you do not have any guarantees the custom program will keep working. Only thing here left is to wait for Irex to build in the functionality (I think they will find something for it). Maybe the developers’ facilities (SDK) which will be released coming half year will result in something useful.

I have some experience now. Although not having a zoom I like the thing and find it useful. I hope they will really facilitate developers and open up the system. As you can see here on the site there are enough brilliant hackers that can do almost anything. (Maybe they can rebuild the Iliad to do the vacuum cleaning ;-))
Thank you for your reply Kili - your assessment of my intended use of the Iliad is spot on. Basically, I want it to replace the vast number of folders that contain the scientific articles that I try to keep track of. Imagine a digital file cabinet with all of your reprint articles in one place. Not only that, but being able to mark them up and save them for later reference at the click of a button.

When the first e-readers came out I was so hopeful that a device would come along for this use. The Iliad seems closest so far...perhaps with a bit more software push, Irex will come through.

I thought that the whole point of PDF was to prevent the user from "tampering" with the document.

The original idea, at least as expressed in the name itself, was to create a portable document format that when viewed would be possible to be viewed the same as when the creator of the document last viewed it.

Which is why Irex's instructions for making Iliad compatible PDF's begin with "Select A5 size paper ...

These days Adobe has been attempting to enable PDF to be an open platform eBook format, something it really isn't very good for IMHO.

The original idea, at least as expressed in the name itself, was to create a portable document format that when viewed would be possible to be viewed the same as when the creator of the document last viewed it.

Which is effectively what I said. The document is "locked up", preventing user modification.

Which brings me back to my original question: how does one modify a document that is intended to be non-modifyable by anyone except the author?

Hmmm that would not solve my problem with PDF. I would like to have zoom and it is no problem info/text/drawings are not shown because it just falls off the screen because of the zoom. As long as I can scroll left right top bottom it is no problem.
I have a lot of documents I constantly need which contain (amoung other schemas and diagrams) some sort of class diagrams. Unreadable now with the Iliad. I need that zoom.....please?

PS. Attached is such a file.....

Understood that it doesn't solve your problem or all problems. Graphics represent a challenge. Some graphics (for example a book cover) don't necessarily need to be full scale. Others, schematics for example, might need not only full scale but zoom capability to be truly useful. But most would agree that the text you want to read should be of a useful size without resorting to zoom or other 'effects' that mean that on every page to read the whole page you need to 'move around' the to see regions not displayed on the screen. I just can't imagine reading a book or magazine that way.

Yo all your enthousiatic hacking nerd geeks (like me) check this out...
http://www.irextechnologies.com/jobs/development
They are hiring our kind over there....Sry to say embeded is not my cake but maybe on of you could do some development remotely for them (lol)....

Hope they will release an A4 version of the Iliad for reading larger documents :-) Thats more comfortable then scrolling or zooming with these display refresh rates :-) Size does matter :-D

The quick answer is that at the moment PDFs that can be cropped aggressively are just readable. Ones that cannot, border on the unreadable, IMO and with my eyes (just turned 40 and everything is getting blurrier...).

Croppability depends on the source of the pdf - most journals allow it, but for example, Nature ones do not. If you have a specific example in mind, please send it to me or post it, and I can try it and upload a photo.

Reflow would be better, and would work great for some journals. I tried this with a random sample of the pdfs I have of scientific papers, and it only worked with a very few - those that provide a pdf of the typesetting information, I guess. Many however have pdfs that are images of a page. (The ones I reflowed, were exportable to html and thence to a word processor and could be made into a more readable document, but that took as long as it might to read half the paper - so not a good time investment.) If the iLiad PDF viewer gains reflow capability, that would be great - but only in a few cases. Zoom is likely to be more useful - a key would be to have good navigation around the zoomed document.

For me the cropping works best, and I can now read papers on a plane, or anywhere, and can carry hundreds with me, and not have to print and waste time, paper and ink. The 16 grays do make a difference, as does the size, when compared to Sony.


As suggested, I took a few of the pdfs that I have and cropped the white margins and resized to A5 using Adobe Acrobat 6.0. Was easy to do. The question - is the 100% view size of this modified pdf the size that is shown on the screen of the Iliad? If so - it is a bit small but readable. I was also wondering if you can choose whether the Iliad scrolles through the document or if it can deliver it page by page?

My question is for the iliad owners living in Canada: how long did the shipping take?

I ordered my iliad yesterday (1st of August) and i'm really looking forward to getting it.

As suggested, I took a few of the pdfs that I have and cropped the white margins and resized to A5 using Adobe Acrobat 6.0. Was easy to do. The question - is the 100% view size of this modified pdf the size that is shown on the screen of the Iliad? If so - it is a bit small but readable. I was also wondering if you can choose whether the Iliad scrolles through the document or if it can deliver it page by page?

K, post a copy if this is possible (copyright...) or send me via e-mail a sample. I will load it and make a picture of it for U.

K, post a copy if this is possible (copyright...) or send me via e-mail a sample. I will load it and make a picture of it for U.

Kili - here is a pdf file that I cropped and saved in A5 format. I can read it at 100% on my computer, but it is a bit small. I will be interested to see what the pages look like on the Iliad. Also, if you can get a shot of a page with one fo the figures, that would be nice. Thanks!

Kili - here is a pdf file that I cropped and saved in A5 format. I can read it at 100% on my computer, but it is a bit small. I will be interested to see what the pages look like on the Iliad. Also, if you can get a shot of a page with one fo the figures, that would be nice. Thanks!

I just had some spare time and so I decided I might as well take the pictures you wantend, sight seer. I hope you don't mind, kili... :wink:

My personal judgement, as pictures are sometimes a little delusive: You CAN read the text, but only if you have good eyes. It's not what I would call a relaxed read. However it's readable and again I'm impressed of the "crispness" of the iLiad's display (the pictures don't really do it justice)...

.... I hope you don't mind, kili... :wink: ....

NP bro. Seer, looks like our problems are simular. Look at the pics below.

1. Is ok so far so good
2. Is also good
3. Here is where the fun begins. This comes from the same doc. In original doc it is in landscape. Some is readable, some guessable, most nothing of the sort.
4. Well....when I zoom in with my dig cam then I can make out some words but....

Ok, as I understand it A5 is the ideal format. My doc is A4. I bet that viewing my A4 in a A5 window (A5 is half A4 right?) but then in landscape would maybe give me a result I want. Zoom of course would be fine but won't this give me also a reasonable result. Maybe for the short term this would be feasable?

I just had some spare time and so I decided I might as well take the pictures you wantend, sight seer. I hope you don't mind, kili... :wink:

My personal judgement, as pictures are sometimes a little delusive: You CAN read the text, but only if you have good eyes. It's not what I would call a relaxed read. However it's readable and again I'm impressed of the "crispness" of the iLiad's display (the pictures don't really do it justice)...

Thanks haraldb! The pages look surprisingly good -- the crop and A5 format seem to work well. The small text size could be problematic over the long haul but maybe not - is it like reading point 8 font? Can't really tell the font size from the pictures without a size reference. I am sorely tempted to purchase a reader but I will probably wait a bit until the software is a bit further along the development road...not sure when that will be since it seems it is likely to be a very long and likely unending road.

NP bro. Seer, looks like our problems are simular. Look at the pics below.

1. Is ok so far so good
2. Is also good
3. Here is where the fun begins. This comes from the same doc. In original doc it is in landscape. Some is readable, some guessable, most nothing of the sort.
4. Well....when I zoom in with my dig cam then I can make out some words but....

Ok, as I understand it A5 is the ideal format. My doc is A4. I bet that viewing my A4 in a A5 window (A5 is half A4 right?) but then in landscape would maybe give me a result I want. Zoom of course would be fine but won't this give me also a reasonable result. Maybe for the short term this would be feasable?
Kili - The text in flow charts can be pretty small even in full size print versions. I have a feeling that zoom will be important when viewing these types of "figures". Does the Iliad allow the user to rotate the orientation of the page view of a pdf once loaded? This might help, but in the adobe readers (e.g. 7.0), page rotation is not accompanied by any change in magnification.

I note in the pictures of my A5 pdf file that I cropped that the Iliad still put a white border around the page. I am hoping that when the Iliad's pdf reader program is "finalized" and allows zoom, that it would be possible to zoom just enough to remove the white margin and obtain larger text without having to loose the sense of the page layout.

The pdf-viewer currently doesn't support pagerotation. But as I understood it they want to deliver a completly new pdf-viewer in the near future which will support pagerotation, zooming and even prerendering of the pages so the pageflips should become much faster.

There were no books on mine when it arrived but it was easy to find and download some.

Has anyone tried to use one of those scanner pen thingies on the iLiad screen?

I'm just wondering if it works or not. :happy2:

Which is effectively what I said. The document is "locked up", preventing user modification.

Which brings me back to my original question: how does one modify a document that is intended to be non-modifyable by anyone except the author?

This is a common misunderstanding.
PDF are editable unless not explicitly saved in an encrypted state.
The idea of PDF was to providing a format that is a digital yet compact* representation of a document - independently* from the fonts and printer drivers that are installed on the viewers machine.

PDFs - unless not explicitly disabled by the author - are perfectly editable in it's specific bounds using the right software.

Eg: You can define a header and a footer in your favorite wordprocessor. If you send the wordprocessors file to me by email, the file might look differenty on mine than on your screen since my system might use different fonts or a different printer driver or a different version of the application.

This is especially true for Microsoft Word.

If you generate a PDF it will contain every* information that is necessary to view exactly* the same.
However, the information that some text is a header/footer has been translated to the information that a specific letter-shape is located exactly at a specific location on the virtual paper.

Since the definition of the PDF format is public* there are quite a lot of applications capable of editing (eg cropping, removing text ...) these files.

(* "in an ideal world :)

Since the definition of the PDF format is public there are quite a lot of applications capable of editing (eg cropping, removing text ...) these files.

And now for the $64,000 Question: What software?

So far, I've used pdftohtml, with low success. Other an Adobe products, I've seen nothing else that can edit a PDF.

And now for the $64,000 Question: What software?

So far, I've used pdftohtml, with low success. Other an Adobe products, I've seen nothing else that can edit a PDF.
Probably the best tools, alas also the most pricy, for converting PDF to HTML are:

BCL Magellan
Iceni Gemini


And there are also tools for editing exiting PDF files without converting them first to another format:

Enfocus PitStop
Jaws PDF Editor

And now for the $64,000 Question: What software?


What do you want do do with it?
Well, I'll send you the number of my banking account by private mail.

Preview.app on MacOSX can do a lot with pdf.
Ghostscript can translate from pdf to pdf and meanwhile do "stuff".
PDFEdit (http://pdfedit.petricek.net/) can do quite some magical stuff with the innards of pdf.
PDFLab, sed/awk, vi whatever.

What do you want do do with it?

Reformat it so that it looks good on the iLiad, of course.

Preview.app on MacOSX can do a lot with pdf.

Requires that I purchase a closed, proprietary system to use. So that's out.

Ghostscript can translate from pdf to pdf and meanwhile do "stuff".

Only if it's not protected (of course, they are hacks around that). But if I have a poorly formatted PDF, I don't need yet another poorly formatted PDF, but rather a nice document file that I can reflow the text and create content that is nicely formatted for the iLiad.

The best Ghostscript can do is let me create an unprotected PDF from a protected PDF.

PDFEdit can do quite some magical stuff with the innards of pdf.

Won't compile. But then it's still alpha software, so I didn't expect much.

PDFLab

Same as Preview.app.
Requires that I purchase a closed, proprietary system to use.

sed/awk, vi whatever.

PDFs are binary files, so sed/awk and vi don't do anything.

I've gotten a few unprotected PDFs and tried pdftohtml with those, but the resulting files are very bad. All formatting is removed.


What I want is something that will magically convert a current PDF into something that is well-formatted for the iLiad. This goes back to the main problem with PDF: It's a format used for PRINT books - just displayed electronically. This format is worthless for general eBook readers since all readers will have different sized screens and different resolutions.

Of course, I can't get what I want. What I will settle for is something that will convert a PDF to a format that I can, without having to spend hours, reformat to the way I like it and then create my own PDFs that are correctly formatted for the iLiad.

I know I posted this earlier (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36145#post36145), and normally I'd resist double-posting, but I think it may have gotten lost in the shuffle, so I ask everyone's patience.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried scanning text from the iLiad's display into one of those single-line text scanner pens.

Just wondering if it works or not. :happy2:

No - but I did slap it on the office copier yesterday to see what I'd get - it worked fine and with a bit of cropping and playing - I ran the iamge through an OCR program which also picked up the text fine (a scan of a book page).

Cool, thanks, pdam. I don't really have a specific use for such a capability in mind, but it seemed like it ought to be possible. I figure there might come a time I'd like to lift a quote from an e-page without re-typing it. Actually, it's more likely that my wife would want to do that, she's the researcher in the family. :)

Well, there might come the day when drm restrictions get so severe that you have to buy a book for your reader, slap it on a scanner with a page-turning hack and OCR your bought book.

Never mind :)

Does the iliad make sound when it's on? (like is there a fan working to cool it down?)

Nope, no fan. But it does make a soft 'plonk' sound when you change pages, as I recall. I believe you can turn that off these days. :nice:

Ohh, man...I forgot about that annoying plonk! I disabled that as soon as the option was available.

thx :)

I know I posted this earlier (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36145#post36145), and normally I'd resist double-posting, but I think it may have gotten lost in the shuffle, so I ask everyone's patience.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried scanning text from the iLiad's display into one of those single-line text scanner pens.

Just wondering if it works or not. :happy2:
It works with normal scanners, at least. But it is far easier to take a screenshot using fbshot-- perfect quality, no borders etc. Should've been a better interface, though, you have to log in through SSH.

Just curious. I have installed and run mrxvt on my iLiad, OS ver. 2.9.5, and I have noticed that, according to df, the root filesystem has just 9% of free space (about 6-7 MB).
Isn't it that a little too low even for such an embedded system? It doesn't leave enough room for some big add ons. Also, I guess some viewers and other tasks may need some temporal space (though may be this can be allocated on other locations).

Hi there,
owning an Librie right now i'd love to have the extra pixels to just read my pdf ebooks without reformatting / converting them...

One question about the energy consumption:
You are getting 5 hours to 15 hours out of the irex it seems...

Lets use worst ( ?! ) case of 5 hours:

Does that mean: 5 hours of continous reading only, or can i switch on the iliad, read 30 minutes and then switch it of for 10 days ( 10 x 30 min = 5h ).

OR

battery is always depleted after 5 hours, no matter if i read for 1 minute, 30 minutes or 5 hours ?!

Sorry if i sound stupid, but not having an iRex i want to know that for sure :-)

AND:
how much time does a complete charge take ?

THANK YOU & have fun with your irex !

Nils

P.S. someone in for exchanging Librie <--> irex with compensation ?!

To get only 5 hours use from the iLiad, you would have to be using the stylus ALL the time, and Wifi and so on... otherwise, with a more "normal" use (occasional stylus/connections) I'd say the range is 8 to 12 hours (more with the extended battery, when we get it!).

And no, the iLiad doesn't use up its battery if it's switched off (except for normal battery discharge, like for any battery out there). :)

To get only 5 hours use from the iLiad, you would have to be using the stylus ALL the time, and Wifi and so on... otherwise, with a more "normal" use (occasional stylus/connections) I'd say the range is 8 to 12 hours (more with the extended battery, when we get it!).

Hmm..
I never ever use the stylus, wifi or do anything other than use my Iliad for reading -usualy between 10 to 30 minutes- but I have never seen a batterylife greater than about 5 hours.
Maybe 6 hours when reading for long(er) stretches but that's it.

So you've never gotten the battery improvements with the upgrades? That's a real pity. I guess you could bring it up to Tech Support, but if I were you, I don't know if I could bear parting with my iLiad unless it's actually not working at all (which is what happened to me). I guess you've made sure that the config is set for minimum consumption, right? No automatic connections going on and so forth?

So you've never gotten the battery improvements with the upgrades? That's a real pity. I guess you could bring it up to Tech Support, but if I were you, I don't know if I could bear parting with my iLiad unless it's actually not working at all (which is what happened to me). I guess you've made sure that the config is set for minimum consumption, right? No automatic connections going on and so forth?

No tech support for me..yet.
Those 5 hours are enough of a batterylife for the kind of use I make of my Iliad.
I guess the frequent on/off switching that I do has influenced the batterylife over the past months.
I have all heehaws, doodahs, whistles and bells switched off.
As I am writing this I realise that I have never tried the 5 times load to full and then use to complete empty method recently described as a battery reviver by -I think- Karel in the Iliad forum over at Irex.
Must give that a try some day.

Hmm I have the same issue, about 5 hours is what i get.
And no wifi on and nothing.
The ipdf with battery saving seems not do much..just 1 hour maximal it seems. to push to 6 hrs.

When I had 5 hours, I was also happy enough with it, since I usually read at home, I just plug in when it needs it, and carry on reading while it charges. :)

Isn't the five times business to be done when new? Anyway, if you go in for the extended battery offer, that should fix it.

The question is where/how do I enter in the extended battery offer system method?

Why is nobody answering this question?
I see people mentioning battery upgrade for older ilads.
But where do you apply for that?
I guess I will mail tech support. Pfffff

Sorry, I expected one of the iLiaddites to answer before now. I don't have an iLiad, but I believe the battery upgrade is still a future thing, that's why you're not finding out how to apply for it yet.

Sorry for the lapse. :sad:

Hi DeGodefroi!

I missed your post. ;) But here you go:
http://www.irextechnologies.com/support/battery_replacement

@DeGodefroi

You can place your battery replacement request at:
http://www.irextechnologies.com/support/battery_replacement.

There were was a lot of talk about it at Irex forum, so maybe all people assumed that you have found it there. ;)

Thnx!
Will check this out.

edit: yup filled it in.
I am amazed that Irex did not allow a way to replace batteries and even offer spare batteries. How hard would that be?
But I love this device, it is wonderful...just needs some minor fixes.

Well, I'm glad to be wrong, apparently. :grin:

Just got my Iliad, happy using it! I've got one little problem though, I can't get Mobipocket to recognize my Iliad. The only way I can upload things now is through the SD-card I use. Am using Windows XP by the way. Have some suggestions maybe?? Thnx!

Have you downloaded the very latest version of Mobipocket? Have you updated your iLiad to the most recent firmware?

Have installed all new versions, still no response. It also isn't a problem with my usb-drive, works perfectly with all other devices I have. Very strange..
Am going to do a total re-install soon, maybe after that it works magically :)