http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=6aPKMZmFwqzIet0h11XAOtaI1Bfm378LHyg=?Cat egoryName=&ProductSKU=PRS500&TabName=specs&var2=

Media Formats Supported
Unsecured Text - BBeB Book, Adobe® PDF, TXT, RFT, & Microsoft® Word (Conversion to the Reader-requires Word installed on your PC)
Secured Text - BBeB Book
Unsecured Audio - MP3192 and ACC
Image - JPEG, GIF, PNG and BMP

Here is nothing new...
http://products.sel.sony.com/pa/prs/reader_specs.html

Unsecured Text - BBeB Book, Adobe® PDF, TXT, RFT, & Microsoft® Word (Conversion to the Reader-requires Word installed on your PC)

But it's still not clear (to me, at least) whether PDF, TXT of RTF will require conversion.

If MS Word is required to convert everything, then this product is useless to me.

But it's still not clear (to me, at least) whether PDF [...] will require conversion.

Depends on what you mean. Bill McCoy -- who should know -- says in his blog: "just stick a PDF on a MemoryStick or SD card, insert, and read". If that is right, no external conversion is required. But ...

The Reader PDF is also described as close to PDF/A, which is based on PDF 1.4. That means that some later features probably won't be supported ... for example jpeg2000 compression and object streams (for improved compression). OpenType font embedding was, I believe, also to some extent an 1.6 feature. If the document you want to read uses those features, some kind of conversion appears to be necessary. And there is also the statement that there will be no support for reflowing: you will have to pan to read documents intended for page sizes large enough to make the text illegible at 'fit width' zoom. And of course there is always the implementation limits for any particular PDF reader version. But that would be nothing special to the Sony Reader: you'd have similar problems if you use Acrobat Reader 1.4.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=6aPKMZmFwqzIet0h11XAOtaI1Bfm378LHyg=?Cat egoryName=&ProductSKU=PRS500&TabName=specs&var2=

Media Formats Supported
Unsecured Text - BBeB Book, Adobe® PDF, TXT, RFT, & Microsoft® Word (Conversion to the Reader-requires Word installed on your PC)
Secured Text - BBeB Book
Unsecured Audio - MP3192 and ACC
Image - JPEG, GIF, PNG and BMP

Here is nothing new...
http://products.sel.sony.com/pa/prs/reader_specs.html
Thanks for the update. I am glad Sony still offers support for TXT + MS Word. I think this could be my reader. Too bad there is no information available yet whether Sony will support Apple Mac as well.

But it's still not clear (to me, at least) whether PDF, TXT of RTF will require conversion.

If MS Word is required to convert everything, then this product is useless to me.My understanding is that BBeB, PDF, TXT and RFT are handled natively; MS Word requires Word installed on the PC to convert DOC files to BBeB, just as IE was required to convert HTML to BBeB for the Librie via the Toolbar for Librie add-on for IE.
Too bad there is no information available yet whether Sony will support Apple Mac as well.Has Sony ever supported Mac? I don't see any reason why the Reader will be different.

My understanding is that BBeB, PDF, TXT and RFT are handled natively; MS Word requires Word installed on the PC to convert DOC files to BBeB, just as IE was required to convert HTML to BBeB for the Librie via the Toolbar for Librie add-on for IE.

Which is what bothers me. MS Word supports RTF. Why do they need a special converter when all you need to do in Word is "Save As" and choose RTF?

Which is what bothers me. MS Word supports RTF. Why do they need a special converter when all you need to do in Word is "Save As" and choose RTF?

There are some CAT tools (computer aided translation) called SDLx and Trados. These tools support, among many others, both RTF and DOC. However, what they really do is convert DOC into RTF without any user intervention. They will open a Word macro and save the file automatically before extracting the text for translation.
If you want to translate Excel or Powerpoint files, you will need MS Office, and I think the CAT software converts them into XML before extracting the text.

I guess this is what Sony eReader software will do: do the conversion for you (maybe into RTF, maybe into XML).

BTW, Gameboy70, that's what I thought when I saw the new specs. I miss HTML heavily, tho.

Which is what bothers me. MS Word supports RTF. Why do they need a special converter when all you need to do in Word is "Save As" and choose RTF?So they can say they support DOC? Supporting an instantly recognizable proprietary file format like DOC sounds more commercial than announcing support for a less recognized, open formt.

Whenever I used Final Draft screenwriting software, I'd always save it my work to RTF rather than the program's native format so that I could edit scripts on other machines without a copy of FD. I never saw the point of using their proprietary format. But whenever other writers would send me scripts as attachments, they would always use FD's native format.

BTW, Gameboy70, that's what I thought when I saw the new specs. I miss HTML heavily, tho.They'll probably include an updated version of Toolbar for Librie, which converts web pages to LRF (a BBeB format). It sucks that HTML seems to require conversion yet again, and is tied to IE yet again, but the conversion itself (at least for the Librie) is a fairly painless, one-click process.

word is only needed to convert doc files to sony reader format which is completely reasonable. Im not sure why everyone is reading into this that you have to have word to convert anything.

It occurs to me that if you don't have Word, then you're unlikely to have Word files to convert in the first place, so it seems the better question might be: what's necessary to read the files types you use.

Just a thought....

Or should I be reading this that Word is required to convert PDF's, TXT's and RTF's as well? That seems unlikely.

I've come across some more details on support for non-BBeB file types:

It appears that you can just load your RTF, TXT and or PDF files onto an SD card (or Memory Stick), stick it in the reader slot, and go to town. PDFs really need to be sized to the screen, of course, and it's not yet clear what sort of zooming will apply to them (TXT & RTF can use the three available font sizes), but there you go.

Apparently you do not have to convert to BBeB at all. In fact, the only files in BBeB format are supposed to be the ones from the Connect store. And anything you go out of your own way to convert, of course, if you enjoy that sort of pain. :)

Theoretically, there may be some speed (and I'm guessing maybe battery life) benifit from running it through Sony's import routine, as it seems that it is supposed to kind of "pre-render" the file in some sort of cache (in either onboard or card memory) for display, but it doesn't convert it to BBeB format, the file remains in its previous format on the device (plus the cache).

I find this encouraging, as I've long thought Sony has really got its hardware act together, so I'd actually feel a bit more of a comfort margin with their hardware. I'm still wondering about the DRM situation, but given the ability to completely avoid using the Connect store and BBeB format if I so choose is encouraging indeed. Especially when I'm still choking on the iLiad's price tag. (hem-hem)

I've come across some more details on support for non-BBeB file types:

It appears that you can just load your RTF, TXT and or PDF files onto an SD card (or Memory Stick), stick it in the reader slot, and go to town. PDFs really need to be sized to the screen, of course, and it's not yet clear what sort of zooming will apply to them (TXT & RTF can use the three available font sizes), but there you go.

Apparently you do not have to convert to BBeB at all. In fact, the only files in BBeB format are supposed to be the ones from the Connect store. And anything you go out of your own way to convert, of course, if you enjoy that sort of pain. :)

Theoretically, there may be some speed (and I'm guessing maybe battery life) benifit from running it through Sony's import routine, as it seems that it is supposed to kind of "pre-render" the file in some sort of cache (in either onboard or card memory) for display, but it doesn't convert it to BBeB format, the file remains in its previous format on the device (plus the cache).

I find this encouraging, as I've long thought Sony has really got its hardware act together, so I'd actually feel a bit more of a comfort margin with their hardware. I'm still wondering about the DRM situation, but given the ability to completely avoid using the Connect store and BBeB format if I so choose is encouraging indeed. Especially when I'm still choking on the iLiad's price tag. (hem-hem)

Thanks for the info! Do you remember where you read it?

Thanks for the info! Do you remember where you read it?

Yes ... but it's not something I can point you to....

Ok so for me it's clear, I will go for the Sony Reader. Only hope I can find a store that will ship to The Netherlands. :(

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony would ship it to you there -- the shipping might be a bear, but, there you go.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sony would ship it to you there -- the shipping might be a bear, but, there you go.


I don't care if I would have to pay $50 for the shipping because it's still cheaper than the iLiad. :D

Good point.

Picked this tidbit up on how the DRM is supposed to work in practical terms.

After making an account with connect store you have to register the devices you want to use with the account (including the downloading computer) -- this is supposed to be straightforward to set up and change (edit -- that is, set up and change what devices you have registered).

Apparently the store is supposed to keep a list of books each person buys something like Baen Webscriptions and Fictionwise do, so that you can download (and re-download) them whenever you want them.

It's supposed to allow registration of 6 devices (counting the downloading computer).

It looks like after that you just download the books you buy and read them on the registered device of your choice.

Not an ideal arrangement, but 6 devices ought to be sufficient for most cases. For those who don't hate the very notion of DRM, it shouldn't be too onerous. Of course, we now know that we have the option of using files from sources other than the Connect Store, so we can avoid it entirely if we so choose.

I also found some indications that Sony may support other file types in the future (they've apparently built firmware/software update capabilities into the PC side software). I'm hoping for something along the lines of the OpenBook standard, myself -- I won't hold my breath, you understand, but I can hope.

Not an ideal arrangement, but 6 devices ought to be sufficient for most cases. For those who don't hate the very notion of DRM, it shouldn't be too onerous.

That, of course, depends.

What denotes a "device"? Can you de-register a device? Say, you decide to upgrade your PC - can you remove the old PC from the list?

And, of course, 6 devices is what it is today, but what about tomorrow? DRM-supporting companies (like Apple, for example) have already shown that they are quite willing to change the DRM terms, without notice, without concent and without compensation to the customers.

And what happens to your eBooks after Sony drops their online store because no one is buying DRMed eBooks?

All in all, like you said:
Of course, we now know that we have the option of using files from sources other than the Connect Store, so we can avoid it entirely if we so choose.

So the DRM mess shouldn't hinder the Sony device.

What denotes a "device"? Can you de-register a device? Say, you decide to upgrade your PC - can you remove the old PC from the list?
A device appears to be a computer, laptop, reader, another reader, etc. And yes: de-registration is what I was trying to say with the comment "this is supposed to be straightforward to set up and change" -- by change I meant unregister and register devices.

And, of course, 6 devices is what it is today, but what about tomorrow? DRM-supporting companies (like Apple, for example) have already shown that they are quite willing to change the DRM terms, without notice, without concent and without compensation to the customers.

And what happens to your eBooks after Sony drops their online store because no one is buying DRMed eBooks?

All in all, like you said:


Of course, we now know that we have the option of using files from sources other than the Connect Store, so we can avoid it entirely if we so choose.

So the DRM mess shouldn't hinder the Sony device.


Yup, they can change it whenever they like, and their store may very well not make it long-term, particularly if something like the OpenReader standard actually gets off the ground.

But as you point out, the DRM mess seems to be encouragingly unrestrictive on the device itself -- and that's primarily what I'm interested in. :D

A device appears to be a computer, laptop, reader, another reader, etc.

I guess what I was getting at was how does it know I am using Device A vs. Device B?

For the readers, I would suspect that they come with a unique serial number and it would be registered using that serial number.

But what about PCs? I mean installing the reader software would generate a unique enough key, but reinstalling the software or OS would probably cause such a key to be changed.

Ah, I see what you're asking.

I dunno how it knows -- I'm guessing that it's part of the device registration process. I do know that hard drives and CPU's have serial numbers associated with them, perhaps it pulls those? Since this is the schema they've set up, I can only suppose Sony believes that they can tell, somehow.

on 06-30-2006, 03:24 AM
I think this could be my reader. Too bad there is no information available yet whether Sony will support Apple Mac as well.

Sorry, Alexander, but it looks like their 'puter side software is going to require Windows XP to run (shocking I know). Of course you could still load your TXT/RTF/PDF files onto a memory card and access your files that way....

TXT, RTF and PDF are all very well...what about straight HTML?

yea, six devices "ought to" be enough, but Microsoft Reader has a 6 decive limit as well...and guess what everyone complains about with Microsoft Reader?

Not an ideal arrangement, but 6 devices ought to be sufficient for most cases.

It's rarely how the system is planned to work that's the problem: it's the failure handling, and other unforeseen events. The buyer usually has to take these things entirely on trust ... and when that trust turns out to have been misplaced, the reaction sets in. How long will it take to know what those failures are?

Here is a wild guess about a possible failure ...

Licensed books are, perhaps, tied to the device by some kind of device identity. If that identity data should go away for any reason -- say, total battery failure, or some form of short-circuit (spilled coffee?) and the consequent failure of the identity storage -- existing purchases will also go away.

(Of course, if the purchases are tied to a person rather than a device, other possibilities for failure open up, as well.)

Similar problems exist with any DRM solution, and I'm sure many already have experienced them personally. Still, I think any DRM solution needs to be evaluated from the perspective of how it fails and recovers, as well as from how failure-free operation performs.

Sorry, Alexander, but it looks like their 'puter side software is going to require Windows XP to run (shocking I know). Of course you could still load your TXT/RTF/PDF files onto a memory card and access your files that way....

hmm ... what's so shocking actually? Windows XP runs on quite a good number of desktop PCs yes? :D

According to unscientific data from http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp , :deal:

XP - 74.1%
Win2000 - 10.6%
Win98 - 1.6%
WinNT 0.3%
Win2003 2.0%
Linux - 4.4%
Mac - 3.6%

@rmeister0: it looks like HTML is not directly supported (which is interesting since the BBeB is supposed to be an XML based format). Of course you could always convert it to another format (PDF for instance) if you desparately needed something on your reader. Not a good solution for HTML, I agree, but I can only guess that since the device is aimed primarily at books, Sony just doesn't think of books as being in HTML format. :huh:

Maybe they'll be more open to the OpenReader format than we think since it is an XML based format and so is the BBeB (I'm not suggesting they're the same format -- I'm pretty sure they're not -- just pointing out that they're both XML based).

@ath: The ownership of the books is tied to an account at the Connect store. What's tied to the device is the ability to read the books on those 6 devices. The reason I think that 6 is probably sufficient for most folks, is that I figure I'm going to want to read my e-books on my e-reader (once I have one :rolleyes5 ), and will be able to resist loading them (for reading) onto every other piece of computer hardware I can lay hands on. :)

I've explored some extreme cases (such as what happens if my house burns down with all 6 of my devices in it, and I've put my text on all 6 of them?). It looks like that would have to be handled manually by contacting the Connect people and getting the device count totally reset. You're right that that is where the crux of the matter falls -- how sticky would they be about doing that?

That being said, I'm not too worried about it -- if I were to end up with a Sony Reader, I think I'd still try pretty hard to avoid feeding their DRM beast by getting my e-texts elsewhere. So my renewed interest in the reader is really hinged on the fact that it can read RTF/TXT/PDF files natively. It's just nice to see that Sony has apparently learned something from the Libie' DRM debacle. I'm not saying I'd never buy e-texts from them, but I'd be pretty resistant.

@Snappy!: that "shocking" was meant tongue in cheek. :happy:

I've explored some extreme cases (such as what happens if my house burns down with all 6 of my devices in it, and I've put my text on all 6 of them?). It looks like that would have to be handled manually by contacting the Connect people and getting the device count totally reset. You're right that that is where the crux of the matter falls -- how sticky would they be about doing that?



I think in that case your electronic books would be the least of your concern. I mean; if you had real books you would have lost them also since they are made from paper and burn like hell. :p

I agree, DiabloNL, but I was trying to explore the limitations, you see.