View Full Version : Kindle for PC is there


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aceflor
11-10-2009, 06:27 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

download and enjoy :)

luqmaninbmore
11-10-2009, 07:40 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

download and enjoy :)

That was quick.

GJN
11-10-2009, 07:48 AM
Unfortunately can't read non-Amazon books.

Correction: Yes it can. When downloading public-domain books from MobileRead or Feedbooks, one's given an option to open the book in the Kindle for PC. The books are then stored in the My Kindle Content folder in My Documents in unaltered .mobi or .prc format.
I like it much more now.

Drak Bibliophile
11-10-2009, 08:51 AM
Is there anyway (if you have Kindle for PC) to remove the DRM from the Kindle ebooks? I've seen some ebooks that I'd like to have but want to read them on my CyBook.

Idoine
11-10-2009, 09:05 AM
Unfortunately, ebooks free for you aren't for me ! VAT is there ! $2.30 ! :smack:

=X=
11-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Awesome! I'm on it!

=X=
11-10-2009, 09:15 AM
Unfortunately, ebooks free for you aren't for me ! VAT is there ! $2.30 ! :smack:

You EU folks should really get on your government on this. It's ridiculous you pay so much for electronic content.

Sweetpea
11-10-2009, 09:28 AM
I knew it! I knew it would arrive between monday and wednesday as I can't check my email until wednesday due to a server move of my mail server...

Awesome that you no longer need a Kindle to buy Kindle books.


Too bad I get a "unable to connect at this time"...

Idoine
11-10-2009, 09:32 AM
You EU folks should really get on your government on this. It's ridiculous you pay so much for electronic content.
Don't know for sure if it's really VAT, marqued as below :includes VAT & international wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
But I agree totally with you nonetheless !

ziegl027
11-10-2009, 09:38 AM
Can you make annotations on the computer? It says you can see annotations made on your Kindle, but doesn't specify if you can make notes on your computer.

Anyone know if it handles PDF's directly, or if you need to convert it? e.g. say I'm doing a literature search on my work computer, find something I want. Can I bring it into the Kindle for PC program easily and take notes on it, then export it to a Kindle (if I get one?)

Sweetpea
11-10-2009, 09:43 AM
Can you make annotations on the computer? It says you can see annotations made on your Kindle, but doesn't specify if you can make notes on your computer.

Anyone know if it handles PDF's directly, or if you need to convert it? e.g. say I'm doing a literature search on my work computer, find something I want. Can I bring it into the Kindle for PC program easily and take notes on it, then export it to a Kindle (if I get one?)

To answer your question:

* Create notes and highlights
Thanks to Whispersync, you can already read your notes and highlights from other devices on Kindle for PC. We'd like to add the ability to create notes and highlights using the Kindle for PC application.

daffy4u
11-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Thanks for the heads up (cause I didn't receive the promised email notification)!

It looks like it's a beta product. Here is a list of proposed future improvements (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_menu/?ie=UTF8&docId=1000436191). I sitll don't see folder support... why is that so hard.

Future Improvements
We hope you are enjoying this beta version of Kindle for PC and the large selection of Kindle books that are available in the Kindle Store.

As with all our services, we plan to continue improving Kindle for PC. Below are some features we are thinking about bringing to Kindle for PC in the near future:


* Create notes and highlights
Thanks to Whispersync, you can already read your notes and highlights from other devices on Kindle for PC. We'd like to add the ability to create notes and highlights using the Kindle for PC application.

* Search
Find a word or a sentence in the book you are currently reading.

* Zoom and rotate images
Click on an image to see an expanded view and rotate it if desired.

We'd also like to hear from you. Please share your thoughts, feedback, and comments with us. You can send them to the Kindle team at kindleforpc-feedback@amazon.com or via the feedback form available in the application - we'd love to hear what you think!

Sincerely,

The Kindle team

weedfreak
11-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Don't know for sure if it's really VAT, marqued as below :
But I agree totally with you nonetheless !

Yes this is $2 connection, even if you d/l it to your computer via your own connection, plus UK VAT which is for the next few weeks 15% which accounts for the odd 30 cents.

If Amazon did not charge the $2 when you do not use their whispernet scam then there would be no VAT. This is just another money making scheme from the Evil reseller.

HansTWN
11-10-2009, 09:51 AM
Yes this is $2 connection, even if you d/l it to your computer via your own connection, plus UK VAT which is for the next few weeks 15% which accounts for the odd 30 cents.

If Amazon did not charge the $2 when you do not use their whispernet scam then there would be no VAT. This is just another money making scheme from the Evil reseller.

well, plenty of ways around that have been discussed. So cheer up!

Slite
11-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Yes this is $2 connection, even if you d/l it to your computer via your own connection, plus UK VAT which is for the next few weeks 15% which accounts for the odd 30 cents.

If Amazon did not charge the $2 when you do not use their whispernet scam then there would be no VAT. This is just another money making scheme from the Evil reseller.

Wait a minute here. Amazon charges $2 in "whispernet fee" for downloading a "free" book to your PC using a "landbased" link?

Did I get that straight?

If so... That just leaves me speechless and flabbergasted and it will surely be a cold day in the place that is usually described as beeing very hot and smelling of sulphur before I use this stupid thing!

WT Sharpe
11-10-2009, 10:21 AM
To answer your question:
* Create notes and highlights
Thanks to Whispersync, you can already read your notes and highlights from other devices on Kindle for PC. We'd like to add the ability to create notes and highlights using the Kindle for PC application.

I hope they're serious about adding that ability, but they need to go a step further and add a copy and paste function for text. It's nice that they gave us the means to view all our notes and highlighted text in a given book in one place, but if you want to quote something in one of your books, there are currently only two options:

1) Type it the entire passage you wish to quote in your favorite word processor.

2) Open the book in your Kindle,
-- underline the desired passage,
-- connect the Kindle to your PC via USB,
-- open the My Clippings file,
-- search for the desired text,
-- copy and paste into your word processor,
-- close the My Clippings file,
-- eject your Kindle and finally,
-- disconnect your Kindle from the PC.

Amazon could have made it easier.

Sweetpea
11-10-2009, 10:24 AM
Hey, it's still a beta and they do mention they would like feedback.

I first need to be able to download something...

igorsk
11-10-2009, 10:24 AM
Strange, I haven't seen any mention of "beta" while downloading.
38803

Blue Tyson
11-10-2009, 10:27 AM
Yeah, it definitely said version 1.00something

HansTWN
11-10-2009, 10:30 AM
it says beta when starting up. Of course, nowadays everything is called beta, so that bugs can be explained away. Some software stays in beta for years. But it is the first day for Amazon, so I think we should be easy on them.

delphidb96
11-10-2009, 10:55 AM
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

download and enjoy :)

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! I'm a-doin' my "happy dance"!!! :happydance: :happybounce: :happydance:

Derek

=X=
11-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Hey it works on Linux using wine!

delphidb96
11-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Is there anyway (if you have Kindle for PC) to remove the DRM from the Kindle ebooks? I've seen some ebooks that I'd like to have but want to read them on my CyBook.

Yes, there *are* - as long as they are .azw, not .azw1(.tpz - topaz) file structure. The basic .azw format is just a version of .mobi/.prc. There are toolkits out there. Talk to me on the Bar.

Derek

delphidb96
11-10-2009, 10:58 AM
Unfortunately, ebooks free for you aren't for me ! VAT is there ! $2.30 ! :smack:

Hunh?!? If they're PD, how can there be a VAT??? (The more I hear about VAT, the more I realize there *IS* a Devil. :D )

Derek

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 11:21 AM
Strange, I haven't seen any mention of "beta" while downloading.
38803

Said so on the site I downloaded from.

Hey it works on Linux using wine!

What did you do? When I ran it, no text was visible.

=X=
11-10-2009, 11:41 AM
I ran it using Windows 98 profile. For me the text was garbled in the bubble screen. The text in the menus and books looked fine.

ascherjim
11-10-2009, 11:44 AM
A curious consequence of installing this Kindle for PC application on your PC is that I have found that the icons for all my non-DRM Mobipocket titles have been changed to the Amazon Kindle icon, and are now read by the new Kindle for PC reader rather than the Mobipocket reader when opened on the PC for reading. This is hopefully only a benign feature.

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 11:46 AM
Sweet, looks good here. Even the bubble is fine.

=X=
11-10-2009, 11:54 AM
Has anybody found where the files are stored. I see it when it is copied down but then it is deleted when the download is completed.

=X=

Leep
11-10-2009, 12:01 PM
yes - the files are stored as a sub folder to My documents - called my Kindle content.
If you have other drm free ebooks you can drag them into that folder and then read them in Kindle PC

cheers

=X=
11-10-2009, 12:12 PM
yes - the files are stored as a sub folder to My documents - called my Kindle content.
If you have other drm free ebooks you can drag them into that folder and then read them in Kindle PC

cheers
Man I feel like a :dunce: I looked in all but the most obvious of places.

Thanks !

calvin-c
11-10-2009, 12:14 PM
A curious consequence of installing this Kindle for PC application on your PC is that I have found that the icons for all my non-DRM Mobipocket titles have been changed to the Amazon Kindle icon, and are now read by the new Kindle for PC reader rather than the Mobipocket reader when opened on the PC for reading. This is hopefully only a benign feature.
This sounds to me like the common 'extension grabbing' done by many programs in Windows. Rather than looking inside a file to see what it contains (which would be sensible, hence not the MS way) Windows looks at the extensions. It maintains a list of extensions and associates each with the default program that opens that 'type' of file. It sounds to me like Kindle, because it *can* read Mobi files, has grabbed that association, listing itself as the default program for those files.

I don't know if Mobi has an option to reset the extensions back to itself. If not, go into Tools, Folder Options, File Types. Find the extensions you want to change & edit them. You'll get a list of programs and can select Mobi from that list. That won't change your ability to open them in Kindle, when you want to, but it'll stop Kindle from opening them by default. (Note: I haven't yet looked at Kindle. There are a few programs that try to 'grab back' the extensions every time you run them. Hopefully Kindle doesn't do that.)

calvin-c
11-10-2009, 12:18 PM
Wait a minute here. Amazon charges $2 in "whispernet fee" for downloading a "free" book to your PC using a "landbased" link?

Did I get that straight?

If so... That just leaves me speechless and flabbergasted and it will surely be a cold day in the place that is usually described as beeing very hot and smelling of sulphur before I use this stupid thing!
Just to set the record straight, as I understand it, Amazon does *not* charge a Whispernet fee. They charge a *price*. It's true that their justification for charging the price is to cover the cost of Whispernet but if it's a price rather than a Whispernet fee then it makes sense that it's charged whether you use Whispernet or not. (What leaves me flabbergasted is the idea that they'd charge at all for a 'free' book. Even if their expenses in UK are higher than in US, I'd still think they'd rather bear the expenses than suffer the ill will. Obviously they don't think so however.)

Sydney's Mom
11-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Pretty cool. I dragged a library book I had on my desktop (no DRM) and it opened right up, looked great. Works on Windows 7.


This opens the Amazon Kindle store to everyone with a PC, doesn't it? That is great!

Sydney's Mom
11-10-2009, 12:23 PM
A curious consequence of installing this Kindle for PC application on your PC is that I have found that the icons for all my non-DRM Mobipocket titles have been changed to the Amazon Kindle icon, and are now read by the new Kindle for PC reader rather than the Mobipocket reader when opened on the PC for reading. This is hopefully only a benign feature.


If you right click and check properties, it is still a mobi file. Just the default opens with program has been changed. You can easily change it back, if you want to. Which I think I will do, cause it is none of Amazon's bees wax if I read library books.

calvin-c
11-10-2009, 12:26 PM
I sitll don't see folder support... why is that so hard.
The hardest part of implementing folders would be, IMO, deciding how to decide which folder to place a book in. Implementing 'freeform' folders, where the user creates the folder, names it, then assigns the books to it manually is harder than you'd think because there's nothing 'in the book' that tells the software which folder it belongs in. (Trying to describe this in non-technical terms.)

To implement a 'fixed' folder arrangement the hardest part, IMO, would be deciding how the books should be categorized-by title, author, or what? And, of course, no two people can agree on the best method. I suspect that's the real problem at Amazon-that & not seeing sufficient demand for it. (Note: I said 'seeing' sufficient demand. Or maybe I should say 'hearing' sufficient demand. If Amazon actually is listening to feedback about the Kindle I think it'll be a first in my experience with them.)

dmaul1114
11-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Just downloaded it, thanks for the link!

Is there a limit to how many PCs you can have your account on? I didn't see any info on that on the Amazon site.

DaleDe
11-10-2009, 12:39 PM
A curious consequence of installing this Kindle for PC application on your PC is that I have found that the icons for all my non-DRM Mobipocket titles have been changed to the Amazon Kindle icon, and are now read by the new Kindle for PC reader rather than the Mobipocket reader when opened on the PC for reading. This is hopefully only a benign feature.

You can change the association for file types on your PC. Some applications allow you to redirect certain file types to that application.

Dale

DaleDe
11-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Just downloaded it, thanks for the link!

Is there a limit to how many PCs you can have your account on? I didn't see any info on that on the Amazon site.

I am sure it counts as another device like every other DRM system.

Dale

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 12:45 PM
So far, I've been poking around the registry, and not seen anything that has info on the account being used. Not seen any files either. Running a more exhaustive search.

EDIT:
Found a file of some interest at C:\Documents & Settings\usernamegoeshere\Local Settings\Application Data\Amazon\Kindle For PC\{AMAwzsaPaaZAzmZzZQzgZCAkZ3AjA_AY}\kindle.info

The bracketed folder is obviously randomly generated, and the file contains a 10kb string of similarly seemingly random generated characters. My guess, the PID is in there.

dmaul1114
11-10-2009, 12:51 PM
I am sure it counts as another device like every other DRM system.

Dale

I figured. What's the limit on # of Kindle devices?

wallcraft
11-10-2009, 12:57 PM
What's the limit on # of Kindle devices? For most ebooks it is 6 simultaneous devices, with each PC or Kindle or iPhone counting as a device. Some ebooks have different limits, and you should be able to see these listed on their web page. I have seen unlimited and 5, and I have heard reports of ebooks locked to one device. Newspapers are handled differently.

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 12:57 PM
6 kindles per account.

dmaul1114
11-10-2009, 01:01 PM
Thanks for the info.

And it's very easy to de-register a PC on the kindle site, so no worries. Have it on my office PC for now and will get it on my laptop at home as well.

ekaser
11-10-2009, 01:24 PM
The book I purchased within Kindle for PC is stored (on my system) in
C:\Users\username\Documents\My Kindle Content
as a .PRC file.

daffy4u
11-10-2009, 02:01 PM
6 kindles per account.

You can have more than 6 Kindles (or Kindle Book Reading devices) registered to one account. You can only *share* books on up to 6 Kindles on the same account (in some cases the license is for fewer than 6). See the Kindle Myths link in my sig. :)

rcuadro
11-10-2009, 02:08 PM
the mac version is still "coming soon"
:(

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 02:20 PM
at least macs are getting a version. on the plus side, you should be able to run it with Wine.

mtravellerh
11-10-2009, 02:32 PM
Hey it works on Linux using wine!

It works fine and opens mobi and prc files already available on my linux netbook. Drawbacks: Menu texts are gobbled away and the books seem not to be synced, so I still have no easy way to transfer my own books to the kindle on my iPod. Buying a book works only via iPhone and iPod syncing as the software can't open a downloaded book directly! No biggie, though!

If I turn my display to portrait mode, the book does only take about 70-80% of the screen and thus appears quite thin. I'am tickled that it works so good, though!

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 02:58 PM
Got it on the new netbook running Windows 7. Bought my first book, Stephen Lawhead's "Hood". Like the display, like the font size options, and am thrilled to be able to have access to the books. Now I just have to really watch my book budget! There's a bunch I can access now I couldn't before, and after this weekend I can't afford to really go nuts in the Kindle Store.

mtravellerh
11-10-2009, 03:11 PM
Got it on the new netbook running Windows 7. Bought my first book, Stephen Lawhead's "Hood". Like the display, like the font size options, and am thrilled to be able to have access to the books. Now I just have to really watch my book budget! There's a bunch I can access now I couldn't before, and after this weekend I can't afford to really go nuts in the Kindle Store.

I have had the Kindle for iPhone for about 6 weeks now and I do already have 50!! books on my Kindle account. This is so ridiculous, guys!

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 03:16 PM
I have had the Kindle for iPhone for about 6 weeks now and I do already have 50!! books on my Kindle account. This is so ridiculous, guys!

I started a Kindle wishlist at Amazon the second I heard about Kindle for PC. It so far has 26 items on it, reduced by the one I just bought. I wasn't really expecting the software to launch until the end of the month, when I'd have another larger than normal paycheck to play with. So now I just have to be patient and do what I've been doing all along with Books on Board and BN - whittle it down a little at a time.

mtravellerh
11-10-2009, 03:20 PM
I started a Kindle wishlist at Amazon the second I heard about Kindle for PC. It so far has 26 items on it, reduced by the one I just bought. I wasn't really expecting the software to launch until the end of the month, when I'd have another larger than normal paycheck to play with. So now I just have to be patient and do what I've been doing all along with Books on Board and BN - whittle it down a little at a time.

Do you know about this?

http://booksontheknob.blogspot.com/

I bought some of those 1.99$ books and they're quite good!

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 03:28 PM
Do you know about this?

http://booksontheknob.blogspot.com/

I bought some of those 1.99$ books and they're quite good!

No, I didn't, thanks! Up til now I've pretty much been ignoring sales/deals/freebies at Amazon because they didn't do me any good. Guess I'll need to start paying attention, now!

Sweetpea
11-10-2009, 03:34 PM
Got it on the new netbook running Windows 7. Bought my first book, Stephen Lawhead's "Hood". Like the display, like the font size options, and am thrilled to be able to have access to the books. Now I just have to really watch my book budget! There's a bunch I can access now I couldn't before, and after this weekend I can't afford to really go nuts in the Kindle Store.

Hey, that's on my list too! I was trying to download a preview copy at work, but apparently, it doesn't work through the proxy... I did find out it's in Topaz format though... (while all the books are saved with a .prc extension, some are mobi books and some are topaz books).

JSWolf
11-10-2009, 03:35 PM
Can someone with a Kindle and Kindle for PC download a book with Kindle for PC and then copy it to the Kindle via USB to see it if works? The book has to have DRM and be AZW. Thanks.

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 03:38 PM
Hey, that's on my list too! I was trying to download a preview copy at work, but apparently, it doesn't work through the proxy... I did find out it's in Topaz format though... (while all the books are saved with a .prc extension, some are mobi books and some are topaz books).

I had a suspicion it was Topaz, someone I knew had downloaded a sample and it was .tpz. I did copy the file to another folder on my hard drive as a safety precaution in case Amazon ever decides to pull another "we're pulling this content because of a mistake" stunt. That will be standard operating procedure for anything I buy from them.

EowynCarter
11-10-2009, 03:56 PM
Speaking of format, I accidentally found this
http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-epub/dp/B002RI97MK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1257886334&sr=1-1

epub ?? :blink:

At least macs are getting a version. on the plus side, you should be able to run it with Wine.
No dice for me on linux.

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 04:10 PM
Eowyn, what is it doing?

Sweetpea
11-10-2009, 04:11 PM
So far, I've been poking around the registry, and not seen anything that has info on the account being used. Not seen any files either. Running a more exhaustive search.

EDIT:
Found a file of some interest at C:\Documents & Settings\usernamegoeshere\Local Settings\Application Data\Amazon\Kindle For PC\{AMAwzsaPaaZAzmZzZQzgZCAkZ3AjA_AY}\kindle.info

The bracketed folder is obviously randomly generated, and the file contains a 10kb string of similarly seemingly random generated characters. My guess, the PID is in there.

Could be, as that folder isn't created for me... I only downloaded sample books so far (and they aren't DRM protected).

mtravellerh
11-10-2009, 04:12 PM
Speaking of format, I accidentally found this
http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-epub/dp/B002RI97MK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1257886334&sr=1-1

epub ?? :blink:


No dice for me on linux.

It's not really an epub. It just means that the book was converted from ePub.

Linux: It only runs through Wine. I don't know about buying books that way, I am using the browser to buy books!

Sporadic
11-10-2009, 04:57 PM
No, I didn't, thanks! Up til now I've pretty much been ignoring sales/deals/freebies at Amazon because they didn't do me any good. Guess I'll need to start paying attention, now!

Time to pimp my thread/list

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42973

:)

BearMountainBooks
11-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Sporadic has a great thread--sadly the ONE book I wanted off that thread...had already expired in its freeness. Ah well, I guess there will be others. Sniff.

BearMountainBooks
11-10-2009, 05:10 PM
Whoops, it was on Books on the Knob that I saw the expired free book--not Sporadic's thread. My bad.

Sporadic
11-10-2009, 05:22 PM
:o the reason why i should read the whole thread before posting

Faenad
11-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Just a quick note that changing your country on the Kindle store to USA allows you to get the freebies and the classics for free :)

Alas I tried a few classics and there is nothing to write home about, their ebooks lacks basic formatting like line breaks or page break for new chapters, the footnotes end up in the middle of the text where the original page break probably was, etc.

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 05:28 PM
It's not really an epub. It just means that the book was converted from ePub.

Linux: It only runs through Wine. I don't know about buying books that way, I am using the browser to buy books!

I click the button for buying books, and it opens up a new tab in firefox.

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 05:29 PM
Could be, as that folder isn't created for me... I only downloaded sample books so far (and they aren't DRM protected).

I snagged some freebies, and found that stuff afterwards.

Madam Broshkina
11-10-2009, 05:53 PM
It's not really an epub. It just means that the book was converted from ePub.

Linux: It only runs through Wine. I don't know about buying books that way, I am using the browser to buy books!

It has nothing to do with epub as we know it. It stands for European Publication.

mtravellerh
11-10-2009, 05:56 PM
It has nothing to do with epub as we know it. It stands for European Publication.

Ah okay. I thought they meant a conversion from epub. Me dumb!:smack:

daffy4u
11-10-2009, 05:56 PM
It has nothing to do with epub as we know it. It stands for European Publication.

Is there confirmation somewhere of that? I actually thought the person who wrote [E]uropean [Pub]lication was joking especially since the thread involved Australia.

Idoine
11-10-2009, 06:07 PM
Just a quick note that changing your country on the Kindle store to USA allows you to get the freebies and the classics for free :)

Alas I tried a few classics and there is nothing to write home about, their ebooks lacks basic formatting like line breaks or page break for new chapters, the footnotes end up in the middle of the text where the original page break probably was, etc.
Tried it but they want a whole address in USA...

vivaldirules
11-10-2009, 06:23 PM
Got it on the new netbook running Windows 7. Bought my first book, Stephen Lawhead's "Hood". Like the display, like the font size options, and am thrilled to be able to have access to the books. Now I just have to really watch my book budget! There's a bunch I can access now I couldn't before, and after this weekend I can't afford to really go nuts in the Kindle Store.

Shel, would you please confirm for me that even if you do not own a Kindle you can now buy ebooks from Amazon and read them on your laptop? I assume that's what you've done but just want to make sure. I would love to do this since there are many ebooks that Amazon sells but Sony doesn't and I just can't bring myself to buy a second ebook reader.

Madam Broshkina
11-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Is there confirmation somewhere of that? I actually thought the person who wrote [E]uropean [Pub]lication was joking especially since the thread involved Australia.

The only confirmation I can see is that on the Amazon Kindle Forums someone asked the question and the response was that epub stands for European Publication. That person used MobileRead as his/her source so it must be true. I have never known MobileRead to pass on erroneous information.

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 06:30 PM
Shel, would you please confirm for me that even if you do not own a Kindle you can now buy ebooks from Amazon and read them on your laptop? I assume that's what you've done but just want to make sure. I would love to do this since there are many ebooks that Amazon sells but Sony doesn't and I just can't bring myself to buy a second ebook reader.

Yes, hon, that is exactly what I've done. Kindle for PC gives anyone with a PC access to the Kindle Store (coming soon for Mac, they say).

volwrath
11-10-2009, 06:30 PM
So far, I've been poking around the registry, and not seen anything that has info on the account being used. Not seen any files either. Running a more exhaustive search.

EDIT:
Found a file of some interest at C:\Documents & Settings\usernamegoeshere\Local Settings\Application Data\Amazon\Kindle For PC\{AMAwzsaPaaZAzmZzZQzgZCAkZ3AjA_AY}\kindle.info

The bracketed folder is obviously randomly generated, and the file contains a 10kb string of similarly seemingly random generated characters. My guess, the PID is in there.

Dont know that the bracketed folder is random as that is my exact folder name as well

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 06:33 PM
Dont know that the brackeded folder is random as that is my exact folder name as well
Hmmm, very very interesting.

luqmaninbmore
11-10-2009, 06:41 PM
My question is how to navigate the thing when running it through wine. I mean, okay I can get some books open and read them and fumble around to figure things out, but it'd be nice if there was tweak to get the button labels to show.

mtravellerh
11-10-2009, 06:45 PM
My question is how to navigate the thing when running it through wine. I mean, okay I can get some books open and read them and fumble around to figure things out, but it'd be nice if there was tweak to get the button labels to show.

Yeah, that's quite strange! Those blind labels are really bizarre! The reading bit is quite enjoyable, though! A lot like the Mobipocket Reader!

volwrath
11-10-2009, 06:47 PM
Hmmm, very very interesting.
If that is indeed the file with the PID in it, it looks like it is going to be a little tougher to get the pid as opposed to the Ipod Touch or the kindle

Over
11-10-2009, 06:50 PM
Unfortunately, ebooks free for you aren't for me ! VAT is there ! $2.30 ! :smack:

Whatever % is your VAT, x% of 0 should always be 0... Strange.

jhoff80
11-10-2009, 06:56 PM
Okay, sure, it's neat that we can now get Kindle books on the PC. Other than that though, this isn't a very good program. How about some sort of transition when flipping pages (especially when using the multitouch features)? This isn't a Kindle device with bad refresh rate, how about a quick page flip or something?

Plus that's not to mention the lack of copy and paste, making annotations, and other issues they already have listed on their future improvements page. As mentioned in a previous comment, this is definitely clearly a beta, but I don't remember the download page telling me that.

And what about some sort of store-browsing in the application itself, rather than the web browser? They've got the opportunity for a great store within it, and all they do is link to the web page. I personally find that when searching for Kindle books, the main Amazon website is too cluttered and has too much other crap. Something that only searches books and stays within the app seems to make much more sense to me.

pilotbob
11-10-2009, 07:05 PM
And what about some sort of store-browsing in the application itself, rather than the web browser? They've got the opportunity for a great store within it, and all they do is link to the web page. I personally find that when searching for Kindle books, the main Amazon website is too cluttered and has too much other crap. Something that only searches books and stays within the app seems to make much more sense to me.

Why would they re-do the store when they already have the web based store? What do you mean "too much crap"? You are going specifically to the kindle store, right? http://www.amazon.com/kindlestore

Or are you saying there is crap in the kindle store? If so, that crap would be there even if you access it from the Kindle app.

BOb

BearMountainBooks
11-10-2009, 07:15 PM
The thing I like about it is that I can get the "deals" that were previously ONLY available if you had a Kindle. There's been a free or 1.99 book or six that I've wanted, but the "sale" was only on Kindle. I have other readers (and use them) but that doesn't help when the deal is on Amazon.

I can live without highlighting and some of the other stuff. It'll be nice if they improve it, yes, but for now it's darn nice to have the CONTENT available!

jhoff80
11-10-2009, 07:21 PM
Why would they re-do the store when they already have the web based store? What do you mean "too much crap"? You are going specifically to the kindle store, right? http://www.amazon.com/kindlestore

Or are you saying there is crap in the kindle store? If so, that crap would be there even if you access it from the Kindle app.

BOb

I meant the former, I didn't know about the separate amazon.com/kindlestore link. I mean, I did see it when the Kindle app brought me to it, but I just thought it was a changed frontpage, and didn't realize it changes the product pages and search results as well. What I meant is that if you're browsing the regular store and do a search, it gives you Kindle and non-Kindle results, and the product pages include non-Kindle recommendations and suggestions.

But as you suggested, the Kindle store link takes care of all those issues. :o Even still, I would prefer it was integrated into the app rather than in the browser, maybe add some features like a covers only browsing to buy things, etc., but it's not as big an issue with that link.

Faenad
11-10-2009, 07:36 PM
Tried it but they want a whole address in USA...

It worked for me but I already used my Amazon account with various shipping address in the EU and the US for shipping physical goods.

I first changed my default, one-click purchase address to the US address, but it was not sufficient and I had to change my location in a drop down in the Kindle store. I do not have a US credit card and was not asked for it, so I think you can use a false US address.

The classics were at first $2.30 (2$ + VAT) then switched to gratis.

Hellmark
11-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Yeah, that's quite strange! Those blind labels are really bizarre! The reading bit is quite enjoyable, though! A lot like the Mobipocket Reader!

Blind labels? I have nothing like that here. I gotta clock out but will be back later with details on what I did.

Idoine
11-10-2009, 07:39 PM
It worked for me but I already used my Amazon account with various shipping address in the EU and the US for shipping physical goods.

I first changed my default, one-click purchase address to the US address, but it was not sufficient and I had to change my location in a drop down in the Kindle store. I do not have a US credit card and was not asked for it, so I think you can use a false US address.

The classics were at first $2.30 (2$ + VAT) then switched to gratis.
Ok, thanks, I'll try with the old address of a friend... :D

DawnFalcon
11-10-2009, 07:44 PM
Well, get back to me when it dosn't charge $2.30 per-book in the UK. Until then, well, you could make a good case for it being considered malware (scam).

(If you want to try and force me to enter false details? Well, as a company you don't want to deal with me)

delphidb96
11-10-2009, 07:45 PM
Shel, would you please confirm for me that even if you do not own a Kindle you can now buy ebooks from Amazon and read them on your laptop? I assume that's what you've done but just want to make sure. I would love to do this since there are many ebooks that Amazon sells but Sony doesn't and I just can't bring myself to buy a second ebook reader.

I only own an iPod Touch, a desktop and a netbook computer. I've got Kindle for PC and Kindle for iPhone and I am able to buy Kindle ebooks.

Now I've got a broken (screen) Kindle 2 on the way, but I've been buying Kindle ebooks just using my iPod Touch, and now using my PC, as I don't have any actual Kindle 2 registration info.

Derek

desertgrandma
11-10-2009, 07:53 PM
Shel, would you please confirm for me that even if you do not own a Kindle you can now buy ebooks from Amazon and read them on your laptop? I assume that's what you've done but just want to make sure. I would love to do this since there are many ebooks that Amazon sells but Sony doesn't and I just can't bring myself to buy a second ebook reader.

Doggies, here is the site. The info seems perfectly clear. You do NOT need a Kindle, only a laptop. You can buy Kindle books and read them on your laptop.

Its what everone's been screaming for, free access to Amazon's lower prices and better selection. Yes, they will be drm'd, but I'm sure that'll be gotten around soon.
Take THAT, BN! :)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 07:59 PM
The thing I like about it is that I can get the "deals" that were previously ONLY available if you had a Kindle. There's been a free or 1.99 book or six that I've wanted, but the "sale" was only on Kindle. I have other readers (and use them) but that doesn't help when the deal is on Amazon.

I can live without highlighting and some of the other stuff. It'll be nice if they improve it, yes, but for now it's darn nice to have the CONTENT available!

Amen, amen, and AMEN!!!!!

Idoine
11-10-2009, 08:01 PM
Doggies, here is the site. The info seems perfectly clear. You do NOT need a Kindle, only a laptop. You can buy Kindle books and read them on your laptop.

Its what everone's been screaming for, free access to Amazon's lower prices and better selection. Yes, they will be drm'd, but I'm sure that'll be gotten around soon.
Take THAT, BN! :)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311
:D Hope so... The sample was a DRM'd free prc, the complete isn't... :D

Madam Broshkina
11-10-2009, 08:12 PM
Doggies, here is the site. The info seems perfectly clear. You do NOT need a Kindle, only a laptop. You can buy Kindle books and read them on your laptop.

Its what everone's been screaming for, free access to Amazon's lower prices and better selection. Yes, they will be drm'd, but I'm sure that'll be gotten around soon.
Take THAT, BN! :)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

Barnes and Noble prices may be a higher but they have had the ability to read their books on a PC for a few months now.

desertgrandma
11-10-2009, 08:24 PM
Barnes and Noble prices may be a higher but they have had the ability to read their books on a PC for a few months now.

oh.:smack: Can anyone read the BN books with their software installed? Like Amazon?

If so, thats a great thing. It means people aren't tied to any one store. Seems like a huge advancement to me.

Jack Tingle
11-10-2009, 08:24 PM
Well, I loaded it, tried it. Sucked over a few freebies, which seem to work well. It's like a crippled version of Mobipocket Reader. Meh.

I'll keep it loaded for if I ever need it, but I wouldn't cross a footpath to get to it, much less an actual road.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

volwrath
11-10-2009, 08:26 PM
:D Hope so... The sample was a DRM'd free prc, the complete isn't... :D

I think it may be a while. Amazon is being a little more sly the third time around it appears. Having said that, at least the naming convention is the same between the touch and the PC, makes it easy to figure out which B0000F634a_EBOK.prc is the correct one.

desertgrandma
11-10-2009, 08:29 PM
So, what I"m understanding, and realize I am lefthanded, is that anyone can download Kindle books to their pc and read them. (In the US so far, and yes, I understand mac version is coming soon)

However, there is still no workaround (yet) to get these books onto a Sony, Nook or any device, is that correct?

Still a huge improvement over having to own a Kindle to buy from the Kindle store, right?

While reading on a pc isn't the best experience, I"m having a good time reading on my Asus. Screen is larger, font still adjustable, and no eye strain.

volwrath
11-10-2009, 08:31 PM
So, what I"m understanding, and realize I am lefthanded, is that anyone can download Kindle books to their pc and read them. (In the US so far, and yes, I understand mac version is coming soon)

However, there is still no workaround (yet) to get these books onto a Sony, Nook or any device, is that correct?

Still a huge improvement over having to own a Kindle to buy from the Kindle store, right?

While reading on a pc isn't the best experience, I"m having a good time reading on my Asus. Screen is larger, font still adjustable, and no eye strain.

I think you pretty much summarized the situation. The only way to get around it at this point is to own a kindle or an iphone.

Blue Tyson
11-10-2009, 08:38 PM
Tried it but they want a whole address in USA...

Lots of US addresses on the net. Find a state you like, add a couple of zeros to a street number or something, and there you go. :)

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 08:39 PM
So, what I"m understanding, and realize I am lefthanded, is that anyone can download Kindle books to their pc and read them. (In the US so far, and yes, I understand mac version is coming soon)

However, there is still no workaround (yet) to get these books onto a Sony, Nook or any device, is that correct?

Still a huge improvement over having to own a Kindle to buy from the Kindle store, right?

While reading on a pc isn't the best experience, I"m having a good time reading on my Asus. Screen is larger, font still adjustable, and no eye strain.

Yep, you got it. I'm thinking that "yet" is going to be coming fairly soon, now, though.
I'm enjoying reading on my Acer, too - and the compatibility, especially now with Kindle for PC, is hard to beat. I can read anything from anywhere, and I'm LOVING that aspect of the whole thing.

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 09:06 PM
Ok, I know, double posting is bad *smacks hand*. But I just found a neat thing I didnt know about. I was on my desktop PC browsing Amazon and decided I wanted to check out a sample. I don't have Kindle for PC installed on my desktop, only on the netbook. Without thinking, I hit "download sample" for delivery to "Shelly's Kindle for PC". Sure enough, when I checked the application on the netbook, it downloaded the sample. Cool!!

Madam Broshkina
11-10-2009, 09:28 PM
oh.:smack: Can anyone read the BN books with their software installed? Like Amazon?

If so, thats a great thing. It means people aren't tied to any one store. Seems like a huge advancement to me.


I assume that if you are able to download and register for a Barnes and Noble account anyone could read BN books with the software installed. I have not purchased any books from BN just downloaded their free books.

The BN software seems much more polished then the new Kindle app. You have the ability to read the books in one page mode or in two page mode much like an actual book. Another feature I like is the ability to auto scroll the text. You can just sit and watch the screen as the text scrolls down the screen. This only works in one page view.

http://i33.tinypic.com/4pwhdz.png

phenomshel
11-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Yes, anyone can download the eReader software from B&N, buy books through it with a process very similar to Amazon's 1-click, and read them on a PC. I've been doing it for months now. No more being tied to one store, which I think is excellent! *rejoicing*.

luqmaninbmore
11-10-2009, 09:37 PM
oh.:smack: Can anyone read the BN books with their software installed? Like Amazon?

If so, thats a great thing. It means people aren't tied to any one store. Seems like a huge advancement to me.

Yep, any device, including PCs, can read B and N books with free software. The capabilities of are quite nice too: annotation, change of font, changing the back ground, dictionary. I hope Amazon will feel obliged to catch up.

mgmueller
11-10-2009, 10:18 PM
Just downloaded it, thanks for the link!

Is there a limit to how many PCs you can have your account on? I didn't see any info on that on the Amazon site.

Some publishers set a limit. Often it's a maximum of 4 units.
I already had iPhone an iPod touch plus Kindle 2 and Kindle DX.
So I can't download about 1/3 of my books.
But it's stated in each book's description and obviously isn't Amazon's "fault".
Still annoying though...

jhoff80
11-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Just an idle thought, but I wonder if there's any way to get the Kindle PID the PC app is using.

Donnageddon
11-10-2009, 10:49 PM
No time to read all 8 pages of this thread, just a short announcement:

Donnageddon approves of this development. He likes the Kindle for PC option.

That is all.

Blue Tyson
11-10-2009, 10:51 PM
So does the send gift certificate from elsewhere to new US account deal work with Kindle For PC - anyone tried that?

HansTWN
11-11-2009, 12:10 AM
works for me. But without the PC app's Kindle ID we would have to actually read on the PC and can't transfer the books to our other devices. Let us give the hackers a few days.

EowynCarter
11-11-2009, 01:20 AM
If that is indeed the file with the PID in it, it looks like it is going to be a little tougher to get the pid as opposed to the Ipod Touch or the kindle

D'oh!
I did not though about that. You need the pid to de-drm.... Though getting it would be as easy as for the mobi pc-reader.
So much for buying books from amazon then. No way i read on pc !

Is there anyway (if you have Kindle for PC) to remove the DRM from the Kindle ebooks? I've seen some ebooks that I'd like to have but want to read them on my CyBook.Mme too. I'm trying to find amazon's e-mail to tell them that...




Hi,

I learned about kindle for pc and thought "yeah, i'll be able to get books from amazon". But I forgot something there.... My reader, a cybook opus, won't read your format. And drm prevent me from converting it to ePub it can read.
Buying a kindle is not an option, i already own a reader. And as europeans publishers uses ePub, i need ePub support.
Any hopes for some good old drm-free epub on amazon ? Or, at worse, with adobe drm my reader can read ? Or drm free mobi that could be converted into something readable ?
That's what i wrote, maybe, if lots of us do that, amazon will come to their sense about selling books for other e-readers...

scveteran
11-11-2009, 01:48 AM
You EU folks should really get on your government on this. It's ridiculous you pay so much for electronic content.

Why would you think it is ridiculous? They have to charge all kind of taxes in Europe that we don't pay in the US in order to provide the government services that we don't have. That stuff really isn't free. You have to pay for it one way or another.

Sweetpea
11-11-2009, 02:09 AM
Doggies, here is the site. The info seems perfectly clear. You do NOT need a Kindle, only a laptop. You can buy Kindle books and read them on your laptop.

Hey, you can use it on any PC, not only a laptop! ;)

I think you pretty much summarized the situation. The only way to get around it at this point is to own a kindle or an iphone.

Or a portable device, with an XP, Win7 or Vista OS on it. Now we need an app for WinMobile....

I assume that if you are able to download and register for a Barnes and Noble account anyone could read BN books with the software installed. I have not purchased any books from BN just downloaded their free books.
As long as you live in the US...

Yes, anyone can download the eReader software from B&N, buy books through it with a process very similar to Amazon's 1-click, and read them on a PC. I've been doing it for months now. No more being tied to one store, which I think is excellent! *rejoicing*.
Again, as long as you live in the US. While the reading app is still very basic, at least everybody has the opportunity to buy now from Amazon.

zacheryjensen
11-11-2009, 04:24 AM
I assume that if you are able to download and register for a Barnes and Noble account anyone could read BN books with the software installed. I have not purchased any books from BN just downloaded their free books.

The BN software seems much more polished then the new Kindle app. You have the ability to read the books in one page mode or in two page mode much like an actual book. Another feature I like is the ability to auto scroll the text. You can just sit and watch the screen as the text scrolls down the screen. This only works in one page view.

http://i33.tinypic.com/4pwhdz.png

More importantly BN is still using the age-old eReader password "DRM" which means their files will work on a few other possible devices than advertised by that virtue alone.

astra
11-11-2009, 04:49 AM
You do NOT need a Kindle, only a laptop. You can buy Kindle books and read them on your laptop.

Sounds interesting. So, we can buy cheap kindle ebooks and read them on Sony Readers in the UK? (after disinfection of course)

zacheryjensen
11-11-2009, 04:54 AM
Sounds interesting. So, we can buy cheap kindle ebooks and read them on Sony Readers in the UK? (after disinfection of course)

Quick as someone 1) figures out how to get the necessary info for the pc-delivered files to liberate them and 2) You replace "UK" with "US" where the 2 dollar, pound, whatever VAT nonsense doesn't come into play... yea sure :)

AlexBell
11-11-2009, 04:57 AM
I knew it! I knew it would arrive between monday and wednesday as I can't check my email until wednesday due to a server move of my mail server...

Awesome that you no longer need a Kindle to buy Kindle books.




But only to read them on your PC, or at least I can't see anyway to transfer them to my reader. This is of very little interest to me.

Edit: Silly me, as someone pointed out earlier the file is in a new folder off My Documents>My Kindle content

Regards, Alex

astra
11-11-2009, 04:59 AM
Quick as someone 1) figures out how to get the necessary info for the pc-delivered files to liberate them and 2) You replace "UK" with "US" where the 2 dollar, pound, whatever VAT nonsense doesn't come into play... yea sure :)

Ah. 1. is a bit of a problem.
Well, I am sure it is a matter of time before someone finds the proper antivirus.

zacheryjensen
11-11-2009, 05:03 AM
But only to read them on your PC, or at least I can't see anyway to transfer them to my reader. This is of very little interest to me.

Regards, Alex

Clearly Amazon is not about supporting an open eco-system with its ebook sales. However, for what it's worth at least it opens options. I, for example, have been considering picking up a slate-style windows based tablet PC that is lightweight and relatively inexpensive for reading PDF's more comfortably. This would of course work on that device as well...

And though I do generally free my kindle downloads from DRM, I also like the whispersync functionality. So if I already had that tablet, I would definitely be using this app. As it stands, it might be useful to let me sell off my K2 if it becomes a vector for drm removal :)

Sweetpea
11-11-2009, 05:09 AM
But only to read them on your PC, or at least I can't see anyway to transfer them to my reader. This is of very little interest to me.

Regards, Alex

See Astra for my response ;)

Besides, there are a few books I'd rather read on my pc than not read at all. And what And zacheryjensen mentions also works (I'm not prejudiced against LCD), and finally, there's always a possibility of OCR'ing (as last resort!).

llreader
11-11-2009, 05:24 AM
Clearly Amazon is not about supporting an open eco-system with its ebook sales.

The only good reason I can see is that there is pressure from publishers. Amazon already has better prices and more mindshare than the competition. If they offered the EPUB format, most of their competition would be crushed. It doesn't make sense to shut out customers.

The Kindle can continue to compete based on quality and features. Even if it dies, Amazon will still make more money than they would with a closed system. The Kindle will have served its purpose by creating the initial market and following.

AlexBell
11-11-2009, 05:31 AM
works for me. But without the PC app's Kindle ID we would have to actually read on the PC and can't transfer the books to our other devices. Let us give the hackers a few days.

I'm not sure ... I bought a $2 book as a test, and copied it out of the My Kindle Content folder on to the SD card of my ECO Reader and was able to open and read it. Navigation seems poor, and I can't change the font, but apart from that I can read the book. I haven't tested it yet to see if it has DRM.

Regards, Alex

zacheryjensen
11-11-2009, 05:36 AM
The only good reason I can see is that there is pressure from publishers. Amazon already has better prices and more mindshare than the competition. If they offered the EPUB format, most of their competition would be crushed. It doesn't make sense to shut out customers.

The Kindle can continue to compete based on quality and features. Even if it dies, Amazon will still make more money than they would with a closed system. The Kindle will have served its purpose by creating the initial market and following.

I think at this point that Bezos has a serious case of Jobs-envy and is trying for the whole "push profitable hardware by linking it to seemingly-cheap media." But, hey, I sure would like to see the same prices with a more open interoperability model. But I don't believe amazon is making any profit on their 9.99 priced books, but, I am fairly confident they are seriously overpricing their hardware.

zacheryjensen
11-11-2009, 05:39 AM
I'm not sure ... I bought a $2 book as a test, and copied it out of the My Kindle Content folder on to the SD card of my ECO Reader and was able to open and read it. Navigation seems poor, and I can't change the font, but apart from that I can read the book. I haven't tested it yet to see if it has DRM.

Regards, Alex

Yeah, that doesn't have DRM on it.

Format C:
11-11-2009, 06:36 AM
Is there anyway (if you have Kindle for PC) to remove the DRM from the Kindle ebooks? I've seen some ebooks that I'd like to have but want to read them on my CyBook.

Yes, there *are* - as long as they are .azw, not .azw1(.tpz - topaz) file structure. The basic .azw format is just a version of .mobi/.prc. There are toolkits out there. Talk to me on the Bar.

Derek

And how can I know, from the store, which format is the ebook? I've so far found just "Kindle Edition" as format...

Sweetpea
11-11-2009, 06:46 AM
And how can I know, from the store, which format is the ebook? I've so far found just "Kindle Edition" as format...

Download a sample. You can see a difference in the reader itself, but it's better visible if you open the file itself in a text-editor (like notepad). Topaz files start with "TPZ", mobibooks start with the title of the book.

RobbieClarken
11-11-2009, 06:52 AM
Download a sample. You can see a difference in the reader itself, but it's better visible if you open the file itself in a text-editor (like notepad). Topaz files start with "TPZ", mobibooks start with the title of the book.

Even easier: check whether filesize is listed under the "Product Description". If it isn't listed the book is in Topaz, if it is listed it's mobi (possibly DRMed).

pdurrant
11-11-2009, 06:54 AM
While the VAT on electronic books is annoying, it's not the major problem with the Kindle store in the EU and elsewhere.

It's the $2 extra added to the ebook cost.

It's added to free ebooks too, so 'free' books in the UK Amazon store cost $2.30 = $2 + 15% VAT.

You EU folks should really get on your government on this. It's ridiculous you pay so much for electronic content.

pdurrant
11-11-2009, 07:00 AM
Just a quick note that changing your country on the Kindle store to USA allows you to get the freebies and the classics for free :)


Until they notice your Kindle isn't in the US, and ask you to contact customer services, and won't let you get anymore books from the US store until you do!

Faenad
11-11-2009, 07:10 AM
Until they notice your Kindle isn't in the US, and ask you to contact customer services, and won't let you get anymore books from the US store until you do!

I don't have a Kindle. And my IP address was not in the US either.

I'm only interested in the Kindle for PC because I hope that someone will find out soon a way to undrm their ebooks so I can read them on my 505. They have some non-fiction ebooks that are not yet available elsewhere.

If you need a fake US address you can always look for the address of a B&N bookstore on the B&N website. Make for a good joke :D

Faenad
11-11-2009, 07:15 AM
I'm not sure ... I bought a $2 book as a test, and copied it out of the My Kindle Content folder on to the SD card of my ECO Reader and was able to open and read it. Navigation seems poor, and I can't change the font, but apart from that I can read the book. I haven't tested it yet to see if it has DRM.

Regards, Alex

The free classics don't have DRM. But the free promotional ebook are protected.

Crowl
11-11-2009, 07:31 AM
Whatever % is your VAT, x% of 0 should always be 0... Strange.

The vat is being charged on the $2 overseas fee thing, although quite why that fee is being charged when a book isn't being sent wirelessly is the obvious question.

llreader
11-11-2009, 07:40 AM
I think at this point that Bezos has a serious case of Jobs-envy and is trying for the whole "push profitable hardware by linking it to seemingly-cheap media." But, hey, I sure would like to see the same prices with a more open interoperability model. But I don't believe amazon is making any profit on their 9.99 priced books, but, I am fairly confident they are seriously overpricing their hardware.

It would be interesting to know what they are making on the two things. I can't see the Kindle becoming the "standard" reader, just on the strength of Amazon's offer of texts.

Also, I think the $9.99 price is probably profitable (I really have no idea, but since they give free shipping on a lot of things, that has to cost money that ebooks don't). In any case, they do ask more for other things. My friend just published a book, and the Kindle price is higher than the hardback price :eek: ($0.32, but still... (http://www.amazon.com/Fantasy-Freaks-Gaming-Geeks-Imaginary/dp/1599214806/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257943155&sr=8-1))

Blue Tyson
11-11-2009, 07:52 AM
I don't have a Kindle. And my IP address was not in the US either.

I'm only interested in the Kindle for PC because I hope that someone will find out soon a way to undrm their ebooks so I can read them on my 505. They have some non-fiction ebooks that are not yet available elsewhere.

If you need a fake US address you can always look for the address of a B&N bookstore on the B&N website. Make for a good joke :D


Good one.

Or publishers that won't/don't sell ebooks! :smack::rofl:

Terisa de morgan
11-11-2009, 08:35 AM
Until they notice your Kindle isn't in the US, and ask you to contact customer services, and won't let you get anymore books from the US store until you do!

Not exactly...

JSWolf
11-11-2009, 09:13 AM
I assume that if you are able to download and register for a Barnes and Noble account anyone could read BN books with the software installed. I have not purchased any books from BN just downloaded their free books.

The BN software seems much more polished then the new Kindle app. You have the ability to read the books in one page mode or in two page mode much like an actual book. Another feature I like is the ability to auto scroll the text. You can just sit and watch the screen as the text scrolls down the screen. This only works in one page view.

http://i33.tinypic.com/4pwhdz.png
That formatting pictured abovr is obsolete. It was designed for a small screen such as a cell phone or palm pilot. It's not good for large screens. Plus, a lot of eReader books with graphics have tiny graphics. It's an obsolete format who's time has come and gone.

Sweetpea
11-11-2009, 09:20 AM
That formatting pictured abovr is obsolete. It was designed for a small screen such as a cell phone or palm pilot. It's not good for large screens. Plus, a lot of eReader books with graphics have tiny graphics. It's an obsolete format who's time has come and gone.

Have you even looked at it? I wouldn't want two pages on my small PDA screen... But I don't like reading text on a full 1920 screen either. So, making two pages would help reading on a large PC monitor and would be a major no-no for a small screen.

JSWolf
11-11-2009, 09:21 AM
Have you even looked at it? I wouldn't want two pages on my small PDA screen... But I don't like reading text on a full 1920 screen either. So, making two pages would help reading on a large PC monitor and would be a major no-no for a small screen.
The two pages are for a larger screen. But the format on each page is the old eReader format. It's not nice to read that on a large screen. And the graphics can very well be an issue. I've seen eReader books that have had maps that are way to small to read and zooming in does nothing to help.

Sweetpea
11-11-2009, 09:23 AM
Actually, I find that nicer to read than what mobipocket or Adobe offers on the large screen... So, let's put it on the "people's tastes differ" stack.

Shiren
11-11-2009, 09:46 AM
"Kindle for PC is not currently available in Canada." What a surprise! *rolls eyes*...

wallcraft
11-11-2009, 09:48 AM
The two pages are for a larger screen. But the format on each page is the old eReader format. It's not nice to read that on a large screen. And the graphics can very well be an issue. I've seen eReader books that have had maps that are way to small to read and zooming in does nothing to help. See A Comparison of format limitations based on The Hobbit (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45297) which illustrates that eReader ebooks are usually more simply styled than other common formats and that graphics are a major issue. However, the Windows eReader (or B&N) app is one of the very best Readers for the desktop. It will be interesting to see how quickly B&N upgrades it to support ePub.

JSWolf
11-11-2009, 09:57 AM
See A Comparison of format limitations based on The Hobbit (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45297) which illustrates that eReader ebooks are usually more simply styled than other common formats and that graphics are a major issue. However, the Windows eReader (or B&N) app is one of the very best Readers for the desktop. It will be interesting to see how quickly B&N upgrades it to support ePub.

And the eReader maps are just a mess. Why would anyone still want to support such an obsolete format is beyond me.

luqmaninbmore
11-11-2009, 10:59 AM
And the eReader maps are just a mess. Why would anyone still want to support such an obsolete format is beyond me.

Because the DRM is the least onerous there is? I'm having problems with my Adobe account running out of activation slots. This is a non-issue with eReader. On the vast majority of books that I've purchased, the graphical limitations are irrelevant. The only one I can think of that annoyed me was my copy of the Children of Huirin which had an annoyingly pixelated map (the Way of Shadows was a bit annoying too). But with a 5 percent cheaper price when I pick eReader from ficitonwise, I'm willing to live with it.

Luqman

tufrostie
11-11-2009, 11:54 AM
I actually prefer to read in 2 page mode on my computer. I like the B&N ereader program because it lets me change the color of the page. I change mine to parchment with a nice soft color and it is much easier on the eyes than the glaring white that can get to you after a time. I downloaded Amazons last night and bought a book to try it out and did not like that I could not change it from the white pages and also did not care for the one page mode. It does not fill a laptop screen, just kinda site in the middle. JMO though, everyone has their preferences.

Hellmark
11-11-2009, 12:06 PM
The only good reason I can see is that there is pressure from publishers. Amazon already has better prices and more mindshare than the competition. If they offered the EPUB format, most of their competition would be crushed. It doesn't make sense to shut out customers.

The Kindle can continue to compete based on quality and features. Even if it dies, Amazon will still make more money than they would with a closed system. The Kindle will have served its purpose by creating the initial market and following.

Depends on their profit margins for books and readers. Most likely they profit more on the readers, and are merely using the books to help push reader sales (similar to Apple using iTunes to push iPod sales).

llreader
11-11-2009, 01:16 PM
Depends on their profit margins for books and readers. Most likely they profit more on the readers, and are merely using the books to help push reader sales (similar to Apple using iTunes to push iPod sales).

Hmm. Seems like a big mistake to me, if that is what they are doing (and I don't think they are). Apple is a hardware company, always has been. Amazon is an online retailer. They make their money by selling things cheaper and more conveniently than other retailers. I don't see why Amazon would decide on a whole new business model now, without a hardware brand, and without control over their suppliers. Apple has these things.

It especially makes no sense since there are lots of players in the market wth plenty of experience (Sony, for example, who have been in the hardware business for decades). People go to Amazon for books, and some other stuff. They don't go for Amazon-branded books, or Amazon hardware, or anything like that.

Besides, I doubt that they are selling enough Kindles for that market to be worth more than, essentially, the lion's share of the ebook market, which is theirs if they want it.

As an aside, if Amazon is selling the Kindle for less than most of the other big ebook readers, and making lots of profit, there is something really wrong with the ereader market.

=X=
11-11-2009, 01:24 PM
While the VAT on electronic books is annoying, it's not the major problem with the Kindle store in the EU and elsewhere.
It's the $2 extra added to the ebook cost.
It's added to free ebooks too, so 'free' books in the UK Amazon store cost $2.30 = $2 + 15% VAT.
I just think its not right for folks having to pay a 15% tax for a book electronic or not. Its not the $2 I'm referring to either a 15% vat makes buying books expensive. Most books I buy are between $25-$50. I dunno if folks are okay with paying these high taxes I guess it okay. I don't think that level of taxation would beTolerated in the states

BearMountainBooks
11-11-2009, 01:49 PM
I just think its not right for folks having to pay a 15% tax for a book electronic or not. Its not the $2 I'm referring to either a 15% vat makes buying books expensive. Most books I buy are between $25-$50. I dunno if folks are okay with paying these high taxes I guess it okay. I don't think that level of taxation would beTolerated in the states

I'm guessing it is just like here in the states. The body of government "Decides" it needs revenue and takes it. Sure you can vote them out of office, but once the tax is in place, how many marches would it take to get rid of it??? I don't see too many taxes being repealed--anywhere, whether people like it or not.

Jellby
11-11-2009, 03:37 PM
I'm not against taxes, I'm against taxes not being included in the price.

fugazied
11-11-2009, 05:40 PM
Boo, mac version "coming soon".
Looks like it works well though! This might help their bottom line a lot with ebook sales!

HansTWN
11-11-2009, 08:26 PM
Download a sample. You can see a difference in the reader itself, but it's better visible if you open the file itself in a text-editor (like notepad). Topaz files start with "TPZ", mobibooks start with the title of the book.

I read that several times, but when I tested it with various files I found that it is not true. Only random characters appear in notepad. So the way I check is download the sample and check file size, Topaz files tend to be about 5-10 times bigger than AZW.

Ducksy
11-11-2009, 08:27 PM
Not for Canada Eh!

Liviu_5
11-11-2009, 09:30 PM
I read that several times, but when I tested it with various files I found that it is not true. Only random characters appear in notepad. So the way I check is download the sample and check file size, Topaz files tend to be about 5-10 times bigger than AZW.

Strange - I opened 10-15 files from Amazon/Kindle in Wordpad and invariably the true prc's have the title as first characters and the topaz files have TPZ0

aceflor
11-12-2009, 12:00 AM
Open the files with an Hex Editor. The right upper corner shows either MOBI or TPZ.

HansTWN
11-12-2009, 12:34 AM
Open the files with an Hex Editor. The right upper corner shows either MOBI or TPZ.

Thanks, that works!

DawnFalcon
11-12-2009, 03:10 AM
Why would you think it is ridiculous? They have to charge all kind of taxes in Europe that we don't pay in the US in order to provide the government services that we don't have. That stuff really isn't free. You have to pay for it one way or another.

Yea, but tax on ebooks should be the same as that on print books.

Also, I jokeingly mentioned earlier in the thread that because of the $2.30 charge outside the UK it should be considered malware...well, at least two major software vendors in the business are apparently currently "in talks" with Amazon on that issue.

Ea
11-12-2009, 06:28 AM
Yea, but tax on ebooks should be the same as that on print books.
No, it shouldn't - it's 25% where I live ;) I'm just fine with 15%

Sweetpea
11-12-2009, 06:31 AM
No, it shouldn't - it's 25% where I live ;) I'm just fine with 15%

We've 19% but I believe that 15% is for all EU countries for imported (electronic) goods from outside the EU.

Ea
11-12-2009, 06:32 AM
We've 19% but I believe that 15% is for all EU countries for imported goods from outside the EU.
I think that was for electronics, I've paid the usual 25% on other things.

Sweetpea
11-12-2009, 06:40 AM
I think that was for electronics, I've paid the usual 25% on other things.

I already updated my statement as I noticed it wasn't really clear myself :D

Terisa de morgan
11-12-2009, 09:09 AM
We've 19% but I believe that 15% is for all EU countries for imported (electronic) goods from outside the EU.

16% in Spain and it's going up to 18%.

Hellmark
11-12-2009, 10:17 AM
I find it kinda odd that European governments thinks that they can tax electronics so highly. I mean, that type of tax is supposed to foster buying of locally produced goods, however, when it comes to electronics, nothing is really locally produced. Even Nokia, which is a european company, doesn't produce their phones there.

Just seems odd to me, but then again, I'm not from there.

Sweetpea
11-12-2009, 10:21 AM
I find it kinda odd that European governments thinks that they can tax electronics so highly. I mean, that type of tax is supposed to foster buying of locally produced goods, however, when it comes to electronics, nothing is really locally produced. Even Nokia, which is a european company, doesn't produce their phones there.

Just seems odd to me, but then again, I'm not from there.

This has nothing to do with electronics.

Most EU countries have two VAT levels. One low, for everyday necessities, such as water, electricity, and some others stuff (like pbooks). And one high, for the rest. This includes everything else. Including software and services. And as ebooks are defined as services by the EU government, they don't fall under the low VAT level but rather the high one.

DawnFalcon
11-12-2009, 11:06 AM
No, it shouldn't - it's 25% where I live ;) I'm just fine with 15%

Well okay, it's 0% VAT for pbooks in the UK, so I'm biased :P

=X=
11-12-2009, 12:29 PM
I can't tell if you guy's are serious or not 19-25% my knees get weak and my stomach turns just thinking about those rates. Do you guys also pay income tax or does the government generate tax revenue only by tax sales?

And as ebooks are defined as services by the EU government, they don't fall under the low VAT level but rather the high one.
Right that was what I was getting at. I heard eBooks where classified under software so that is why they are taxed heavily. Do you pay the higher taxes for DVD, books, and CDs?

=X=

Sweetpea
11-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Well okay, it's 0% VAT for pbooks in the UK, so I'm biased :P

Yes, but you don't pay 0% VAT on ebooks...

I can't tell if you guy's are serious or not 19-25% my knees get weak and my stomach turns just thinking about those rates. Do you guys also pay income tax or does the government generate tax revenue only by tax sales?

Remember, most European countries are welfare states. The way to pay for a welfare state is generally by taxation.

Right that was what I was getting at. I heard eBooks where classified under software so that is why they are taxed heavily. Do you pay the higher taxes for DVD, books, and CDs?

=X=

No, they are a service. If I were to buy a cd, floppy disk, usb stick, dvd rom, blue-ray disc, hd, tape? with an ebook on it, it would be a "book" and thus get the low VAT rate. But as I don't get a physical carrier it's a high VAT rate thing.

Books are low VAT, music (on CD's, DVD's or any other carrier) is high VAT.

DawnFalcon
11-12-2009, 03:34 PM
No, they are not a "service". They are simply ebooks, which attract normal rate VAT. Printed books are specifically zero-rated.

(And that's "socalist")

orwell2k
11-12-2009, 08:27 PM
I keep getting an error message when I try to "Sync and Check For New Items" and download the ebooks ordered from Amazon (free, so no cost - I didn't want to risk it until I know it works!). The message is:

Unable to connect at this time. Please try again later.

Anyone else having this problem?

BearMountainBooks
11-12-2009, 09:03 PM
I just downloaded a sample about 5 minutes ago, no problem.

delphidb96
11-12-2009, 09:44 PM
Yep. Working for me as well. Gotta say, having the ability to see the images in color and on a 22" screen has made reading the Photoshop Layers kindle ebook I just downloaded a real pleasure. :D

Derek

Sweetpea
11-13-2009, 01:46 AM
I keep getting an error message when I try to "Sync and Check For New Items" and download the ebooks ordered from Amazon (free, so no cost - I didn't want to risk it until I know it works!). The message is:



Anyone else having this problem?

Yes, I have, at work. I'm behind a proxy there and it looks like it uses a different port than 80. I can't think of another reason as I must turn the proxy off when I'm at home (on my IE)

phenomshel
11-13-2009, 02:03 PM
:rofl: Oh, NOW I get the email from Amazon!

texasnightowl
11-13-2009, 02:30 PM
I keep getting an error message when I try to "Sync and Check For New Items" and download the ebooks ordered from Amazon (free, so no cost - I didn't want to risk it until I know it works!). The message is:



Anyone else having this problem?

I saw that Wednesday night, but last night it worked OK. So :shrug:

llreader
11-13-2009, 02:35 PM
:rofl: Oh, NOW I get the email from Amazon!

Meh. I still haven't been told. Is there somthing happening at Amazon? :rolleyes:

zelda_pinwheel
11-13-2009, 02:36 PM
:rofl: Oh, NOW I get the email from Amazon!
huh, i still haven't gotten it.

Meh. I still haven't been told. Is there somthing happening at Amazon? :rolleyes:

not that i know of. ;)

Sweetpea
11-13-2009, 04:50 PM
:rofl: Oh, NOW I get the email from Amazon!

I got it on wednesday...

Hellmark
11-13-2009, 05:40 PM
What is this email you guys are talking about?

luqmaninbmore
11-13-2009, 05:46 PM
What is this email you guys are talking about?

The email announcing the availability of the kindle pc app. You could sign up for it after the program was announced.

scveteran
11-13-2009, 06:12 PM
Yea, but tax on ebooks should be the same as that on print books.

Also, I jokeingly mentioned earlier in the thread that because of the $2.30 charge outside the UK it should be considered malware...well, at least two major software vendors in the business are apparently currently "in talks" with Amazon on that issue.


You might think that it should be the same, but I think you are wrong. I am going to use the example of the shareware companies back in the early 90s when they "sold" you a copy of a PD software. What they really were doing is charging a fee for the service of copying the program to the media and sending it to you. Here, you are being charged a tax on the distribution, not the actual book.

scveteran
11-13-2009, 06:30 PM
I can't tell if you guy's are serious or not 19-25% my knees get weak and my stomach turns just thinking about those rates. Do you guys also pay income tax or does the government generate tax revenue only by tax sales?


Right that was what I was getting at. I heard eBooks where classified under software so that is why they are taxed heavily. Do you pay the higher taxes for DVD, books, and CDs?

=X=

For the most part they have income taxes even higher than in the US.

scveteran
11-13-2009, 06:32 PM
No, they are not a "service". They are simply ebooks, which attract normal rate VAT. Printed books are specifically zero-rated.

(And that's "socalist")

The service is sending you the book electronically. That is why you get the VAT.

DawnFalcon
11-13-2009, 08:45 PM
Here, you are being charged a tax on the distribution, not the actual book.

And this makes a difference because? The problem is not the tax, it's the per-book charge in the first place. "Whispernet" is an excuse to charge it despite there being no wireless in Amazon's side of the equasion at all.

Thanks for pushing me firmly into the "scam" catagory.

pilotbob
11-13-2009, 09:48 PM
And this makes a difference because? The problem is not the tax, it's the per-book charge in the first place. "Whispernet" is an excuse to charge it despite there being no wireless in Amazon's side of the equasion at all.

Thanks for pushing me firmly into the "scam" catagory.

I wish people would stop calling this a "scam". Scam is a dishonest scheme or fraud. Amazon charging you for wireless surcharge is not fraudulent. If you don't like it, don't but it.

So, how does wireless work if there is "no wireless". Do leprechaun's bring it in pixie dust?

BOb

DawnFalcon
11-13-2009, 09:53 PM
Well yes, please do explain how wireless is involved between someone's ADSL or cable modem and Amazon's server.

Waiiiting.

pilotbob
11-13-2009, 11:03 PM
Well yes, please do explain how wireless is involved between someone's ADSL or cable modem and Amazon's server.

Waiiiting.

First... let's take a step back and remember that no matter how passionate we are about an issue, we can discuss it civilly. (moderator hat off now)

If you buy a book from Amazon, they charge you a wireless fee. That allows you to d/l that book via Whispernet... not once, but whenever you want to. Because you choose not to do that, doesn't make the fee a scam.

Now, do I think it would be good if Amazon offered a "download via web" only price for the book.. sure... that would be a nice option. But, the fact that they don't doesn't make it a "scam". I'm also sure saying that Amazon is scamming you doesn't motivate them to offer an alternative price and delivery method.

No, if you paid the fee and couldn't download the book via whispernet. Or you tried to use the wireless and it wouldn't send you the book. Or the fee was charged each time you d/l'ed via whispernet when you were told it was a one time fee... that would be fraud/scam. But, none of these things is the case.

As a consumer you have a choice. The fees are clearly spelled out on the web site and the price of the ebook is clearly marked before you purchase it. So, you make your choice and buy it or not.

But, let's be realistic here, you are not being scammed.

BOb

DawnFalcon
11-13-2009, 11:15 PM
It's sarcasm. There are not those steps, plain and simple. There is no wireless involved in Kindle for PC. Period, end of story. There is no reason to charge for wireless delivery, because there is no wireless. If someone later added a Kindle and wanted wireless delivery? Well, that's another story, sure, and charges then might be appropriate.

And going by the definitions used by anti-malware programs, I'm afraid you're quite simply wrong not to lable the program malware. Oh it won't, Amazon have enough clout to make the issue go away, but it clearly falls foul of the definitions - that sort of "contingency charge" is a clear, and fairly common, scam.

Billjr13
11-14-2009, 03:42 AM
Is there a wire running directly to your house from Amazon,s computer servers? It must be comming to your computer somehow? Wireless? Maybe?
If you don't like their service don't use it.

zacheryjensen
11-14-2009, 04:06 AM
Is there a wire running directly to your house from Amazon,s computer servers? It must be comming to your computer somehow? Wireless? Maybe?
If you don't like their service don't use it.

Let's stop feeding the trolls, and get back to our regularly scheduled sane programming shall we? :thumbsup:

Sweetpea
11-14-2009, 04:16 AM
It's sarcasm. There are not those steps, plain and simple. There is no wireless involved in Kindle for PC. Period, end of story. There is no reason to charge for wireless delivery, because there is no wireless. If someone later added a Kindle and wanted wireless delivery? Well, that's another story, sure, and charges then might be appropriate.

And going by the definitions used by anti-malware programs, I'm afraid you're quite simply wrong not to lable the program malware. Oh it won't, Amazon have enough clout to make the issue go away, but it clearly falls foul of the definitions - that sort of "contingency charge" is a clear, and fairly common, scam.

So, you buy that book now and next week you buy the Kindle. And download the book by wireless. And you haven't paid the "wireless" fee.

It would require of Amazon to implement a way to differentiate between books that can only be downloaded via your internet connection and books that can also be downloaded by way of the Kindle/iphone/itouch wireless.

Billjr13
11-14-2009, 04:37 AM
Sorry I wasnt trying to be a troll

DawnFalcon
11-14-2009, 08:08 AM
So, you buy that book now and next week you buy the Kindle. And download the book by wireless. And you haven't paid the "wireless" fee.

It would require of Amazon to implement a way to differentiate between books that can only be downloaded via your internet connection and books that can also be downloaded by way of the Kindle/iphone/itouch wireless.

Yep. They track a lot of things, this is something else they could do very easily. Charging contingency fees for something you cannot use is a typical and common online scam, as I said. This is in no way "insane", it's my typically pragmatic-above-all view of looking at offerings.

I'm sad but not surprised to see that some people refuse to condem Amazon for this, and it never seems to make the articles - it's a big deal, especially when it ties you into a closed and propriatory ecosystem.

HansTWN
11-14-2009, 08:15 AM
Nobody is saying it is a good thing, perhaps part of the contract with AT&T or a concession to foreign publishers who do not want to see these books given away, who knows. Could also be that Amazon's software is not setup to prevent downloading via the modem for free books and force you to download these via your computer. Fact is, for the moment there are no free books for anybody except Americans, unless you work around the regional restrictions. But our advice is -- if you don't like what Amazon does, don't use them.

DawnFalcon
11-14-2009, 08:27 AM
Well of course not, they've given up my business until they're prepared to denounce the scam (and, knowing me, it'll be several years after that before I'm willing to deal with them again). And of course they're also banned on any network I control and I'll tell people not to deal with them. Nothing unusual...I also do the same for companies like Zynga and Tattoo Media.

Prospect
11-14-2009, 10:14 AM
Tax or no-tax, what is impressive is that Amazon seems to have gotten the DRM right. The software has been out for a week and the DRM is still not cracked. :thumbsup:

EowynCarter
11-14-2009, 11:14 AM
Tax or no-tax, what is impressive is that Amazon seems to have gotten the DRM right. The software has been out for a week and the DRM is still not cracked. :thumbsup:
And in the meantime, there lossing sales because some won't buy until they can de-drm ;) No point in books i can only read on PC.

DawnFalcon
11-14-2009, 11:22 AM
Tax or no-tax, what is impressive is that Amazon seems to have gotten the DRM right. The software has been out for a week and the DRM is still not cracked. :thumbsup:

Since when was that a measure of success? (Oh, and AZW has been cracked for a long time...)

wallflower75
11-14-2009, 11:23 AM
Since when was that a measure of success? (Oh, and AZW has been cracked for a long time...)

Not for those of us who just have Kindle for PC. We don't have a definite PID number to use.

delphidb96
11-14-2009, 11:57 AM
And in the meantime, there lossing sales because some won't buy until they can de-drm ;) No point in books i can only read on PC.

Thank goodness I have an iPod Touch! With that, Kindle for iPhone and a copy of iTunes on my PC, *I* am able to generate a valid PID for use with those de-DRMing apps. :D :D :D

Derek

delphidb96
11-14-2009, 11:59 AM
Not for those of us who just have Kindle for PC. We don't have a definite PID number to use.

Do you have an iPod Touch (one that can run the 2.2x version of the OS?) or an iPhone? Then put Kindle for iPhone on it and you'll be able to retrieve the information through iTunes on your PC.

Derek

wallflower75
11-14-2009, 12:20 PM
Do you have an iPod Touch (one that can run the 2.2x version of the OS?) or an iPhone? Then put Kindle for iPhone on it and you'll be able to retrieve the information through iTunes on your PC.

Derek

Not yet. An iPod touch is on my Christmas list, and if I don't get it, then I'll probably get an iPhone.

(Although my friend just got an iPod touch...hmm...she's a pretty good friend...maybe she'll let me borrow hers for a little 'experiment'.)

Liviu_5
11-14-2009, 01:01 PM
Do you have an iPod Touch (one that can run the 2.2x version of the OS?) or an iPhone? Then put Kindle for iPhone on it and you'll be able to retrieve the information through iTunes on your PC.

Derek

The Kindle pid of the Kindle PC does not need to be the Kindle PID of the Kindle Itouch

JSWolf
11-14-2009, 01:16 PM
Because the DRM is the least onerous there is? I'm having problems with my Adobe account running out of activation slots. This is a non-issue with eReader. On the vast majority of books that I've purchased, the graphical limitations are irrelevant. The only one I can think of that annoyed me was my copy of the Children of Huirin which had an annoyingly pixelated map (the Way of Shadows was a bit annoying too). But with a 5 percent cheaper price when I pick eReader from ficitonwise, I'm willing to live with it.

Luqman
I've setup ADE on two different computers (two different accounts) without an issue whatsoever. What I don't like about eReader is the formatting used on most eReader eBooks plus the size and/or quality of the graphics. I'm not saying any other format is perfect. Far from it. There is no perfect format. There could be if the reading software supported things like fonts, margins, line & paragraph spacing, widow/orphans, & hyphenation. None do all that. And a lot of what I mentioned are controlled by the eBook's settings.

One of the reasons I like ePub is that I can strip the DRM and without having to decompile, I can make the changes I want. Then when I am finished, I can the use that ePub to read the book. Plus, with the ePub sorted, Calibre can then convert into some other format if I so choose and I should get a nice version.

delphidb96
11-14-2009, 02:44 PM
The Kindle pid of the Kindle PC does not need to be the Kindle PID of the Kindle Itouch

I have found that the Kindle ebook I purchased on Thursday for my Kindle for PC account is ALSO readable on my Kindle for iPhone and when I ran it through the various de-DRMing routines, its DRM was removed. So, yes, if you have a Kindle4iPhone (on your iPhone/iPodTouch) *and* a Kindle4PC account *and* a desktop iTunes account on the desktop system that you have your DRM-removal tools, you'll be able to decrypt your K4PC ebooks. (Assuming of course that the ebook you purchased is NOT in Topaz format.)

Derek

Liviu_5
11-14-2009, 08:21 PM
I have found that the Kindle ebook I purchased on Thursday for my Kindle for PC account is ALSO readable on my Kindle for iPhone and when I ran it through the various de-DRMing routines, its DRM was removed. So, yes, if you have a Kindle4iPhone (on your iPhone/iPodTouch) *and* a Kindle4PC account *and* a desktop iTunes account on the desktop system that you have your DRM-removal tools, you'll be able to decrypt your K4PC ebooks. (Assuming of course that the ebook you purchased is NOT in Topaz format.)

Derek

When you buy a Kindle book it's irrelevant if you buy for PC, Kindle, ITouch since you can send it to all up to whatever number of devices (3 are covered for sure); the issue is which PID you would use with each copy; of course the Touch pid works with the Touch copy, the question is what works with the pC copy

wallcraft
11-14-2009, 10:17 PM
of course the Touch pid works with the Touch copy, the question is what works with the pC copy There is room to be skeptical, but delphidb96 is saying that the Touch PID also works on the K4PC ebooks.

The best confirmation would be for someone else with an iPhone or Touch to strip the DRM from a .prc file in My Documents\My Kindle Content using the PID from their iPhone or Touch.

Note that this would not conclusively confirm that the K4PC PID is the same as the iPhone. An alternative explanation is that both the K4PC PID and the Touch PID are in the AZW ebook. However, previous AZW ebooks only seemed to contain one PID.

HansTWN
11-14-2009, 10:26 PM
There is room to be skeptical, but delphidb96 is saying that the Touch PID also works on the K4PC ebooks.

The best confirmation would be for someone else with an iPhone or Touch to strip the DRM from a .prc file in My Documents\My Kindle Content using the PID from their iPhone or Touch.

Note that this would not conclusively confirm that the K4PC PID is the same as the iPhone. An alternative explanation is that both the K4PC PID and the Touch PID are in the AZW ebook. However, previous AZW ebooks only seemed to contain one PID.

Somebody said before it doesn't work. My guess is delphi set the "1-click buy" to iphone. That way the kindle ID is set to the iphone's ID.

sianon
11-14-2009, 11:01 PM
I purchased a book today which I downloaded to my PC and transferred to Kindle via USB. The file that is located on my PC will not open in Kindle4PC, no issues opening on the kindle.
Opens in Kindle4PC when downloaded through the application.

DawnFalcon
11-15-2009, 01:36 AM
So there's even an actual difference in the downloaded books. Facepalm.

zacheryjensen
11-15-2009, 02:13 AM
There is room to be skeptical, but delphidb96 is saying that the Touch PID also works on the K4PC ebooks.

The best confirmation would be for someone else with an iPhone or Touch to strip the DRM from a .prc file in My Documents\My Kindle Content using the PID from their iPhone or Touch.

Note that this would not conclusively confirm that the K4PC PID is the same as the iPhone. An alternative explanation is that both the K4PC PID and the Touch PID are in the AZW ebook. However, previous AZW ebooks only seemed to contain one PID.

I can assure you with absolute certainty as an owner of Kindle 2, Kindle for iPhone, and Kindle for PC, none of those three share the same PID. I have successfully ripped DRM from Kindle 2 and Kindle for iPhone using their respective PIDs. The same books from the Kindle for PC can not be decrypted with the PID from either Kindle 2 or Kindle for iPhone.

And yes, this had already been established (and, as a matter of logic, should not be surprising.)

The fact is, every entity registered into the Kindle system, the listing you can see when you go to the site to "Manage Kindle," represents a unique encryption target and, assuming they all use the same type of encryption (no special reason this would be required, even within the mobi basic file format,) they'll all have unique PIDs too.

The only thing close to an overlap is the direct download link from your "owned" books listing which is intended for manually loading books onto a Kindle/Kindle 2 and I would imagine that if you had multiple standard Kindles on your account that link would be duplicated for each one.

Blue Tyson
11-15-2009, 04:45 AM
Since when was that a measure of success? (Oh, and AZW has been cracked for a long time...)

It is a success if you count success as 'paying money for something that will guarantee you make much less money in the long run.'

:smack::D

wallflower75
11-15-2009, 08:56 AM
I'm a little confused. So in order to be able to strip DRM from a Kindle file right now, I'd have to download the file to either a Kindle or an iPhone/iPod touch in order to use the device's PID. Do I have that right?

zacheryjensen
11-15-2009, 08:58 AM
I'm a little confused. So in order to be able to strip DRM from a Kindle file right now, I'd have to download the file to either a Kindle or an iPhone/iPod touch in order to use the device's PID. Do I have that right?

Yes, which is probably why there is such strong interest in finding the PID for a registered "Kindle for PC" install. (I know that this is the only reason currently I'm interested in Kindle for PC, despite having an iPhone)

volwrath
11-15-2009, 04:52 PM
Yes, which is probably why there is such strong interest in finding the PID for a registered "Kindle for PC" install. (I know that this is the only reason currently I'm interested in Kindle for PC, despite having an iPhone)

Actually K4PC offers one advantage and that is to figure out which book to pull off the ipod touch/iphone. The naming convention is the same, so you can open the book you want in k4pc, turn a few pages, go to the kindple4pc dir and do a sort by date. The latest .mbp file is the name of the ebook you want to get off the touch. Ive struggled with that issue somewhat in the past

Liviu_5
11-15-2009, 06:01 PM
Actually K4PC offers one advantage and that is to figure out which book to pull off the ipod touch/iphone. The naming convention is the same, so you can open the book you want in k4pc, turn a few pages, go to the kindple4pc dir and do a sort by date. The latest .mbp file is the name of the ebook you want to get off the touch. Ive struggled with that issue somewhat in the past

what about sorting by date and keeping track when you bought them? that works for me easily

volwrath
11-15-2009, 10:36 PM
what about sorting by date and keeping track when you bought them? that works for me easily

Actually good point...Before when I was using bonjour I dont remember being able to sort by date, but now that I am just doing it via SSH, that works fine.

Rayven01
11-16-2009, 09:57 AM
Actually K4PC offers one advantage and that is to figure out which book to pull off the ipod touch/iphone. The naming convention is the same, so you can open the book you want in k4pc, turn a few pages, go to the kindple4pc dir and do a sort by date. The latest .mbp file is the name of the ebook you want to get off the touch. Ive struggled with that issue somewhat in the past

Or you can just look up the book on Amazon. The filename used for kindle books is the ASIN number listed in the product details (and also in the link for the book).

slayda
11-16-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm a little confused. So in order to be able to strip DRM from a Kindle file right now, I'd have to download the file to either a Kindle or an iPhone/iPod touch in order to use the device's PID. Do I have that right?

Actually you don't have to DL to the Kindle, you just have to DL the varient that was made for the Kindle. If you own a Kindle you can DL to your computer and transfer to your Kindle. This is different from DLing to your Kindle4PC which has it's own unique name.

I can assure you with absolute certainty as an owner of Kindle 2, Kindle for iPhone, and Kindle for PC, none of those three share the same PID. I have successfully ripped DRM from Kindle 2 and Kindle for iPhone using their respective PIDs. The same books from the Kindle for PC can not be decrypted with the PID from either Kindle 2 or Kindle for iPhone.

And yes, this had already been established (and, as a matter of logic, should not be surprising.)

The fact is, every entity registered into the Kindle system, the listing you can see when you go to the site to "Manage Kindle," represents a unique encryption target and, assuming they all use the same type of encryption (no special reason this would be required, even within the mobi basic file format,) they'll all have unique PIDs too.

The only thing close to an overlap is the direct download link from your "owned" books listing which is intended for manually loading books onto a Kindle/Kindle 2 and I would imagine that if you had multiple standard Kindles on your account that link would be duplicated for each one.

Based on a single AZW book DLed to two different Kindle4PCs and run through a compare (by byte) there were 177 bytes that were different. I assume that the Kindle4PC's PID is embedded in there somewhere but I doubt that it is not encrypted in some manner.

Hellmark
11-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Do you have a diff of those two files?

luqmaninbmore
11-16-2009, 03:05 PM
I've setup ADE on two different computers (two different accounts) without an issue whatsoever.

That's beside the point. ADE restrictions become an issue when you have multiple computers/devices on the same account. I can no longer use my work computer for ADE because of a known issue (it kept on re-registering with ADE each time I started the program) and I can no longer add new computers (I tried and failed to add my daughter's new netbook). Amazingly, I was able to add my Pocketbook 360 BEFORE I had installed the experimental firmware which support DRM epub and PDF. That was an odd, but welcome and encouraging, occurrence. However, I am still dreading what will happen when I have another hard-drive failure or wish to upgrade my OS on my ASUS. It is not clear to me that ADE will recognize my computer as a re-registration of a previously recognized one. De-Registering the computer (if possible) apparently does not get your activation count lowered, like it does with Sony. Right now, with my Pocketbook 360, ADE is working. It does not work well for my Sony in regards to library books. There is no guarantee it will work well when I upgrade my computer, which may not be too far in the future. I have no such fear in regard to EReader. I hope that Pocketbook will upgrade their support of adobe DRM to include the social DRM which is being licensed from B and N. I would gladly support B and N if they make it easy for me to get reasonably priced content onto my reader, with no worries about problems caused by hardware failure.

I do concede your points in regards to the technical limitations of eReader, although I have still come across eReader books that look nice. I have my own gripe against the format: the html coding works fine on windows but often does not work well on linux because the coders got careless and referenced image file names in the wrong case (windows is not case-sensitive, linux is). As a result, I have had to manually rename the image files I get when I explode an eReader file with the python script. I don't think this is the script's fault; the names of images appear to be those given by the publisher and the html seems to be the publisher's source.

Luqman

pdurrant
11-16-2009, 04:50 PM
Actually you don't have to DL to the Kindle, you just have to DL the varient that was made for the Kindle. If you own a Kindle you can DL to your computer and transfer to your Kindle. This is different from DLing to your Kindle4PC which has it's own unique name.



Based on a single AZW book DLed to two different Kindle4PCs and run through a compare (by byte) there were 177 bytes that were different. I assume that the Kindle4PC's PID is embedded in there somewhere but I doubt that it is not encrypted in some manner.

The PID is in the book, but encoded with the PID itself, if I'm reading the MobiDeDRM code right. You can take the PID, and check that a book is encoded using that PID, but you can't get the PID back from the book.

What you need to do is find where Kindle4PC is storing the PID it uses. I suppose it must send this PID back to Amazon at some point, so perhaps a packet sniffer could spot this. I'd be surprised if they weren't encoding it though.

Kindle4PC must store the PID it's using somewhere on the PC's hard disk. But finding it and decoding it is more than I can manage.

volwrath
11-16-2009, 06:14 PM
Or you can just look up the book on Amazon. The filename used for kindle books is the ASIN number listed in the product details (and also in the link for the book).

Oh wow, so it is...and ive had to figure it out the hard way for so long :p This gets tip of the day status. Excellent first post!

pilotbob
11-16-2009, 06:18 PM
I can no longer use my work computer for ADE because of a known issue (it kept on re-registering with ADE each time I started the program) and I can no longer add new computers (I tried and failed to add my daughter's new netbook).

Did you call or email Adobe support? They can remove the extraneous devices registered to your account.

BOb

calvin-c
11-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Kindle4PC must store the PID it's using somewhere on the PC's hard disk. But finding it and decoding it is more than I can manage.
Or, equally likely, in the Windows Registry. That bracketed string looks to me like a CLSID. Depends, somewhat, on how 'universal' they wrote the app. Sure, right now it's only for Windows (or Windows emulators-same thing) but if they really thought it thru they'd probably store it on the HD so the storage/retrieval subsystem could work on all OS's.

Hellmark
11-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Or, equally likely, in the Windows Registry. That bracketed string looks to me like a CLSID. Depends, somewhat, on how 'universal' they wrote the app. Sure, right now it's only for Windows (or Windows emulators-same thing) but if they really thought it thru they'd probably store it on the HD so the storage/retrieval subsystem could work on all OS's.

I've searched through the registry. Nothing vital is stored there.

slayda
11-16-2009, 07:26 PM
Do you have a diff of those two files?

Below is a file of the three contiguous sections of the ASCII values that were different;

I could recreate the output that would include the hex addresses if necessary.

ekaser
11-16-2009, 09:51 PM
Found a file of some interest at C:\Documents & Settings\usernamegoeshere\Local Settings\Application Data\Amazon\Kindle For PC\{AMAwzsaPaaZAzmZzZQzgZCAkZ3AjA_AY}\kindle.info

The bracketed folder is obviously randomly generated, and the file contains a 10kb string of similarly seemingly random generated characters. My guess, the PID is in there.

Yes, I found that file, too. The folder is NOT randomly generated, or if it is, the seed is always the same, because that's the exact folder name on at least two other systems, too. That's the only place I've seen that would be a likely place for the PID to be stored, but 10KB is a big area to look for an encrypted 10-byte string, especially when it's probably encrypted with fairly strong encryption. I suspect it would take some kind of "end run" to acquire the PID, such as is used to get the key for LIT files. The CONTENTS of the kindle.info file is certainly different on different machines (users), although very similar, mostly alpha characters with occasional punctuation characters thrown in.

The only characters used in the two examples I've seen are 0-9, A-Z, a-z, and hyphen, colon, underscore, and open-brace. Interestingly, there are exactly 10 open-braces and exactly 10 colons in both files AND they're all in EXACTLY the same locations in both files. A further impossible-to-be-coincidence, is the addresses (offsets into the file) at which they occur. The offsets are not consistent, but when looked at as hex values, the least significant digit increments by 2 EVERY TIME. In hex, the offsets of the '{' characters are:
0000
01E2
04F4
0686
0828
124A
13FC
160E
24B0
2652

The offsets for the ':' characters are:
0021
0203
0515
06A7
0849
126B
141D
162F
24D1
2673

Notice that the '{' offsets start with their least significant digit at 0 and that digit increments by 2 each time, while the ':' offsets start with a least significant digit of 1 and increment by 2 each time. But those 20 characters are at the exact same places in both instances of the file that I've studied.

Whether it has any bearing on anything, who knows (not enough data points, so it may be pure coincidence) but there's 10 {'s and 10 :'s in each file, at the exact same locations, and there are 10 characters in a MobiPocket PID. Very possibly coincidence, but then maybe not, too.

Another interesting curiousity: The file is, by FAR, mostly A's, Z's, a's, and z's. In kindle.info #1, there are:
1815 A's
1152 a's
1753 Z's
1299 z's
In kindle.info #2, there are:
1777 A's
1153 a's
1764 Z's
1343 z's

Those four characters account for around 60% of the file. The other 60 characters (24 uppercase, 24 lowercase, hyphen and underscore) each have a "random scattering" of between about 50 and 130 instances each.

And that's about all the time I have to spare to spend on the issue. But maybe some of this will mean something to someone else, or be of help.

ekaser
11-16-2009, 09:54 PM
Below is a file of the three contiguous sections of the hex values that were different;

I could recreate the output that would include the hex addresses if necessary.

Yes, please? That would be quite useful. Thanks!

EDIT: by the way, I just looked at your file closely, and realized that the two middle lines are identical. Grabbed one of them from the wrong file???

llreader
11-17-2009, 02:45 AM
Whether it has any bearing on anything, who knows (not enough data points, so it may be pure coincidence) but there's 10 {'s and 10 :'s in each file, at the exact same locations, and there are 10 characters in a MobiPocket PID. Very possibly coincidence, but then maybe not, too.


Could the segments between the { and : be an encrypted digit of the PID?

ekaser
11-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Could the segments between the { and : be an encrypted digit of the PID?

Very possibly. I forgot to point out in last night's post that, if you subtract the '{' and ':' characters, which appear to always be at the same points in the file, then that leaves exactly 64 other characters (26 upper, 26 lower, 0 to 9, hyphen and underscore), which would lead one to believe that the file is an ASCII encoding of some sort, where each character represents 6 bits (0-63) of the "value".

Also, a week ago when Kindle for PC was first released and I'd first installed it, I did a directory listing of my entire hard disk (redirecting it to a file), then sorted that file by date and time, to see what folders and/or files had been created or modified with the same time-stamp as the Kindle for PC installation. I found that a file was created in a sub-folder of:
C:\Users\(username)\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Prot ect
(The 'Protect' folder is a hidden folder, so you have to do a /ah directory search to find it, or CD directly to it, knowing the path.) Another "made up name" folder existed in that, within which was a half-dozen files, all with made-up names (apparently 'random' digits and letters), all of the same length (the names) and the same file length (the data) of 388 bytes. Upon searching the web for info about this, I found this page that talks about the Protect folder and DPAPI (Data Protection Applications Programming Interface):
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee681624%28WS.10%29.aspx
Anyway, the most recent of those 388 byte files was created with the exact same time/date stamp as the Kindle for PC installation, and the Preferred file in that same folder had also been modified with the same time/date stamp.

So, I suspect that Kindle for PC is using the Windows Data Protection API to encode and scramble the Kindle PID and store it in the kindle.info file. But I don't have any experience with the DPAPI layer, and know even less :), so figured I would leave it to other more cryptographically-minded folks to puzzle it out.

pilotbob
11-17-2009, 10:03 AM
So, I suspect that Kindle for PC is using the Windows Data Protection API to encode and scramble the Kindle PID and store it in the kindle.info file. But I don't have any experience with the DPAPI layer, and know even less :), so figured I would leave it to other more cryptographically-minded folks to puzzle it out.

Using DAPI is pretty easy to do, especially with .Net. The think about DAPI is that you don't need to know the key (iirc) since the encryption is based on the currently logged in user of the PC.

BOb

slayda
11-17-2009, 10:47 AM
39407Yes, please? That would be quite useful. Thanks!

EDIT: by the way, I just looked at your file closely, and realized that the two middle lines are identical. Grabbed one of them from the wrong file??? Apparently I did use the wrong file.

Here is the output. I've added spaces where there is a break (unless I missed one) in the addresses. File also attached.

EDIT; After rereading the posts above re. the ":" I looked at both files again with that in mind and have modified the attached file.

Alexander Turcic
11-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Please keep in mind our guidelines in regard to posting sensitive information in regard to DRM. Basically don't post anything that could be used as a step by step guide to break DRM, don't post proprietary code or disassemblies, and don't attach any tools that coud be related the breaking of such code. Thank you!

This is merely a friendly reminder. ;)

Hellmark
11-17-2009, 12:40 PM
Alex, as a techie who deals with DRM'ed files for a living, and responsible for a community of geeks and hackers, I'm fairly well abreast of legal matters regarding this, and so far all is kosher.

ekaser
11-17-2009, 12:53 PM
EDIT; After rereading the posts above re. the ":" I looked at both files again with that in mind and have modified the attached file.

Yes, I've just been looking at the two .PRC files I've downloaded from Amazon, and found a similar block in both (at different addresses than in yours), that seem to use ':' and '=' as delimiters of data blocks. In both books, there's a block that looks like this:

:kin:1
COLON(171 random alphanumeric characters plus '/' and '+' characters)=
COLON(27 random alphanumeric characters)=

The 171 and 27 blocks of characters are different in the two books, but they're the same LENGTH in both books and preceded by ":kin:1", and the two books both have the 171 and 27 character blocks bracketed by a colon/equals pair.

I just did a check on your latest diff file, and lo and behold: the address of the =: pair in your file is 0xC0C, and the address of the starting : is 0xB61.
0xC0C - 0xB61 = 0xAB, which in decimal is (are you ready?) 171. The trailing '=' is at 0xC29 and the first character after the =: pair is at 0xC0E. That equals a difference of (are you ready again?) 27 bytes. In other words, the same 'size' and arrangement as the blocks that I found in my two files. The third block of different data that you found appears to be BINARY data, not ASCII encoded, and LOOKS like it is probably 24 bytes long (or very close thereto). On the two books I have, it is at a different offset from the above data block, because there is book title and publisher information in between the two. But the 24-byte block (or however long it is) appears to follow shortly after the ASCII string "EBOK".

These blocks seem to be a similar encoding to what's in the kindle.info file, except that they use : and = as the delimiting characters and / and + as the two characters that fill out the 64 character "data set", whereas kindle.info uses { and : as the delimiting characters, and - and _ as the 64-character set filler.

I've done a little more playing around with kindle.info, and it is structured thusly (on my system):

{(32 chars)
COLON(448 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(752 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(368 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(384 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(2560 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(400 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(496 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(3712 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(384 chars)
{(32 chars)
COLON(400 chars)

I've added CR's to break things into understandable units. Notice that the : and { characters are paired in an alternating pattern, and each { is always followed by exactly 32 characters, while each : is followed by a varying number of characters. This leads one to believe that the { is specifying a "variable name" (or "value name"), and each : is specifying the value associated with that name. Interestingly, the first 200 characters of each "data" block are IDENTICAL. The only variation exists AFTER the first 200 characters (the 200 doesn't count the leading ':').

The theory that the characters in the kindle.info file comprise data that has been encoded into ASCII, with each character representing 6 bits of the data is somewhat supported by the fact that if you multiply the number of characters in each field by 6 and divide by 8, it always comes out to an equal number of bytes. Further, the number of 'bytes' (if that's what it translates to) is always a multiple of 4. In other words:

32*6/8 = 24
448*6/8 = 336
752*6/8 = 564
368*6/8 = 276
384*6/8 = 288
2560*6/8 = 1920
400*6/8 = 300
496*6/8 = 372
3712*6/8 = 2784
384*6/8 = 288
400*6/8 = 300

That's all for now. I REALLY do have "real work" I have to be doing. (But puzzles are just SO darn much fun! :) )

ekaser
11-17-2009, 12:59 PM
Please keep in mind our guidelines in regard to posting sensitive information in regard to DRM. Basically don't post anything that could be used as a step by step guide to break DRM, don't post proprietary code or disassemblies, and don't attach any tools that coud be related the breaking of such code. Thank you!

This is merely a friendly reminder. ;)

Thanks, Alex! Absolutely. I'm just enjoying the 'puzzle' of it at this point. Were I ever to actually "break through" to DRM breaking territory (which I doubt I'll ever do, I just don't have the where-with-all for that anymore), I certainly wouldn't post anything "in the public eye."

slayda
11-17-2009, 03:24 PM
Thanks, Alex! Absolutely. I'm just enjoying the 'puzzle' of it at this point. Were I ever to actually "break through" to DRM breaking territory (which I doubt I'll ever do, I just don't have the where-with-all for that anymore), I certainly wouldn't post anything "in the public eye."

I agree completely except that I am retired and barring "honey-dos", I don't have any "real work". Puzzles are very interesting and entertaining. I just wish I were smart & educated enough to solve this.



Yes, I've just been looking at the two .PRC files I've downloaded from Amazon, and found a similar block in both (at different addresses than in yours), that seem to use ':' and '=' as delimiters of data blocks. In both books, there's a block that looks like this:


Yes, I noticed the same thing in another book.

volwrath
11-17-2009, 10:39 PM
The way I see it, this is round 3 for Amazon, with the Kindle and IPhone being rounds one and two. I imagine that Amazon is going to make it extremely tough to determine the pid, because if/when it is found, it will be all over. Although I suspect if this were the case Amazon would sell more books.

llreader
11-18-2009, 03:07 AM
The way I see it, this is round 3 for Amazon, with the Kindle and IPhone being rounds one and two. I imagine that Amazon is going to make it extremely tough to determine the pid, because if/when it is found, it will be all over. Although I suspect if this were the case Amazon would sell more books.

EXACTLY! They would sell more books. I would buy from them, and I have a Sony. The open question is whether Amazon thinks they can really force their closed standard on the market and win, or whether they are making a "good faith" effort in order to satisfy the publishers.

The first seems delusional, but companies have done it before. The second seems likely, even if the first is also true. Pricing is a whole different issue (like selling ebooks for more than the hardcover version :blink: ).

4-eyes
11-18-2009, 10:00 AM
The way I see it, this is round 3 for Amazon, with the Kindle and IPhone being rounds one and two. I imagine that Amazon is going to make it extremely tough to determine the pid, because if/when it is found, it will be all over. Although I suspect if this were the case Amazon would sell more books.

If it should prove possible to determine the PID and then apply a suitable python script to allow me to convert to ePub format for my Sony as I do with mobipocket format, they'll certainly be selling a lot of books to me.


No PID, however, means no sales to me.

Sweetpea
11-18-2009, 10:15 AM
If it should prove possible to determine the PID and then apply a suitable python script to allow me to convert to ePub format for my Sony as I do with mobipocket format, they'll certainly be selling a lot of books to me.


No PID, however, means no sales to me.

For me, it would either be a PID or a WinMobile application... (the latter would have my preference, as I could read topaz file then as well)

Hellmark
11-18-2009, 12:46 PM
If I could strip DRM from kindle books, I'd buy from Amazon. I have a Sony reader that I love, but Amazon has often cheaper prices, or books unavailable elsewhere.

BeccaAnn
11-18-2009, 01:05 PM
If I could strip DRM from kindle books, I'd buy from Amazon. I have a Sony reader that I love, but Amazon has often cheaper prices, or books unavailable elsewhere.
I too, love my Sony but without even having to think hard, I can think of at least 12 books that only Amazon has that I want. I can barely afford new books, forget about getting a Kindle when my Sony is less than a year old. I was so excited to hear about Kindle for the PC. I thought it would be easy to strip the DRM since it has already been broken with the Kindle. My mistake, at least I haven't bought any books. I've only gotten freebies and a couple of samples. Hopefully it will be broken soon and Amazon can once again get my business (they lost it when I got my Sony).

Hellmark
11-18-2009, 01:10 PM
I went with the Sony because it is more durable because of the aluminum body, and the control layout is a better fit for me. Not to mention, I dislike the problems Amazon has had with deleting books.

scveteran
11-22-2009, 04:53 PM
It's sarcasm. There are not those steps, plain and simple. There is no wireless involved in Kindle for PC. Period, end of story. There is no reason to charge for wireless delivery, because there is no wireless. If someone later added a Kindle and wanted wireless delivery? Well, that's another story, sure, and charges then might be appropriate.

And going by the definitions used by anti-malware programs, I'm afraid you're quite simply wrong not to lable the program malware. Oh it won't, Amazon have enough clout to make the issue go away, but it clearly falls foul of the definitions - that sort of "contingency charge" is a clear, and fairly common, scam.

You are completely wrong to say this is malware. It is also clearly not a scam. They clearly identify the charges. There is no way that can call it a scam if you know exactly what you are getting and what you are paying.

They are providing the software for free as a way to get you to use the Kindle. It is an integrated part of the system. So it makes sense that they charge the fee with the actual Kindle in mind.

DawnFalcon
11-22-2009, 05:00 PM
So, it's no longer a scam? They've stopped charging contingency fees for services people don't have available? Great. Press release, thanks.

As I said, it's a very common scam and when other companies did this there was much screaming at them.

scveteran
11-22-2009, 05:08 PM
Well of course not, they've given up my business until they're prepared to denounce the scam (and, knowing me, it'll be several years after that before I'm willing to deal with them again). And of course they're also banned on any network I control and I'll tell people not to deal with them. Nothing unusual...I also do the same for companies like Zynga and Tattoo Media.

I sure hope that the people on networks that you control find out what kind of person you are. I know that I would not want you as a network administrator if you are going to ban my use of a service due to your inability to understand the difference between a legitimate business practice and a scam.

DawnFalcon
11-22-2009, 05:13 PM
I'm the sort of person who does due diligence, right!

I'd like to hear your defence of Zynga or Tattoo Media's practices, mind you. Go on...

scveteran
11-22-2009, 05:32 PM
I'm the sort of person who does due diligence, right! Shit, I'm often accused of being soft. What, people who agree with my approach use my services? Never.

I'd like to hear your defence of Zynga or Tattoo Media's practices, mind you. Go on...

I am only talking about your claims that you made here about Amazon and how you are going to act. I don't know anything about the other two companies so I am not talking about them.

What is clear to me is that you are making invalid claims against the company that are borderline if not completely libelous. Considering the laws in your country, it is really strange that you would make such claims and then have to depend on Amazon being nice enough to ignore you.

It is also clear from the post that I had replied to before this, that you are willing to prevent users from accessing a company just because you hold a grudge. That is not acceptable IMO.

DawnFalcon
11-22-2009, 05:52 PM
Yes, you are talking about them. Because you're defending the same business practices. Your ignorance is no defence, and I'd suggest you do some research.

This is certainly not a "grudge", it's defending people in this house from a company billing users for services they do not have access to. Please, keep on arguing for that, you're making my point for me.

Also, yes, bear in mind the laws of the country I'm in. Not making accusations would seem to be smart on your part. (Mods: Sorry, but I don't take legal threats lightly, ever)

scveteran
11-22-2009, 06:47 PM
Yes, you are talking about them. Because you're defending the same business practices. Your ignorance is no defence, and I'd suggest you do some research.

This is certainly not a "grudge", it's defending people in this house from a company billing users for services they do not have access to. Please, keep on arguing for that, you're making my point for me.

Also, yes, bear in mind the laws of the country I'm in. Not making accusations would seem to be smart on your part. (Mods: Sorry, but I don't take legal threats lightly, ever)

I just read up on what you referred to. It is in no way the say thing as what Amazon is doing. That is a ridiculous accusation. Keep in mind that I am not the only one telling you that you are wrong about what is going on here. I am not defending actual scams and malware simply by pointing out that you can't tell the difference between those two things and a legitimate practice.

It is most certainly a grudge, and the proof is in your statement. You said that you are not going to do business with them for several years after they do what you want. That is a classic example of holding a grudge. Aslo you said you are going to take multiple actions to try and hurt the company. Again, example of holding a grudge.

As for defending people in "this house", maybe that is what you think you are doing: I don't know. What I do know is that you hinted at multiple networks and that certainly doesn't imply a home situation. Neither did your other statement about using your services. If it is your homeand you have children, you have a right to decide what your children do with your money. Anything other than that, you are censoring what other adults can see and do because you have an irrational feeling about the company. Yes, I said irrational because you are taking this far past the point of being rational.

Lastly, my pointing out that it is strange that you would committ libel against a company due to the laws in your country is not a legal threat. Only someone who is incapable of thinking rationally about the subject would think that it is. Certainly I have no standing to bring any legal action against you. I am also a disabled person with no money or ability to travel to your country to take an action even if I had standing. So you have to be pretty irrational to think that I am bringing a threat against you.

On the other hand, you reference the laws in your country and then talk about what you perceive as my actions. That is a threat. Of course I really don't care if you make idiotic threats. It can't hurt me since your courts can't do anything to me here in South Carolina. Also it only shows everyone how childish you are being at the moment.

I strongly suggest you take some time and calm down before coming back.