We've compiled an overview of forthcoming 2nd-gen e-book reader devices that are all based on E Ink technology. They include two readers from Chinese Jinke (HanLin V2 and V8), one from Sony (Sony Portable Reader), and one from Dutch-based iRex (iLiad).

Link to the overview: http://www.mobileread.com/eink/

For corrections or add-ons, feel free to post anything that comes to your mind in this thread.

Also my thanks to May from Jinke for sending me his version of the device matrix. If I had to pick one of the devices based on quality of customer service, it'd certainly be a Jinke HanLin reader.

Wow! Great compilation of all the devices and their info in a side-by-side comparison chart! Neat! :)

that is very useful! many thanks for compiling it :D

edit: i'm surprised sony reader can read RTF and txt now...

Forgive my ignorance - I am recently knew to the world of ebooks and the associated technology. I have been excited to read this and other forums, but do have a question about the comparison chart for the eink readers.

What is built-in DRM? Does this mean that they will only be able to read DRM ebooks in their own format? Will any of them (probably not the Sony) be able to read DRM pdf's or Mobipocket or ?

Thanks for the reply, and thanks for such a great forum!

Welcome avid! It means every device has software that is capable of "supporting" DRM in one way or the other. While this is not directly significant to the consumer, it is significant to the publisher (unfortunately), who at the end decides what copyright-protected material will be available for the device.

that is very useful! many thanks for compiling it :D

edit: i'm surprised sony reader can read RTF and txt now...
It does - well indirectly, its Windows software converts text, RTF, and PDF to BBeB prior loading the text onto the device.

I think this is the kind of things that manufacturers should be taken to task for.

Yes, I'm being picky, but if you have to convert a file from RTF or TXT to some other format to make it readable, than it is dishonest to say that the Sony Reader "supports" RTF or TXT. Supports should mean, to my ornery self, you can load an RTF or TXT file right on the thing and it will work.

I wish the marketing literature did a better job of differentiating what formats are supported natively (without conversion) and which ones are supported via conversion. This is why I am still confused about whether or not PDF is natively supported, because the blurbs on the Sony website suggest it both ways.

Mostly, I'm just tired of converting stuff. :grin2:

Got it - thanks! I guess there is hope...
The Iliad looks like the best bet - for me because of screen size. Cost is a concern though.
Tha ability to carry documents in such a nice sized reader would sure be nice.

Some VERY interesting new info from the Teleread Blog...apparently iRex told Banko Collins (he visited them and is now writing a review on Teleread) that the Iliad can handle 10000+ Page-Turns on a fully loaded battery. WOW!
If that is correct and true, then I'll go with the Iliad as my first Eink device I think...even if the price of around 550Euro is a bit on the heavy side...

Now what i'm wondering about is the fact that the iRex homepage talks about 21 hours...which is incompatible with the page-turn number in my opinion...any views on that?

Slight correction: iRex has been around a good while longer than since 2005. (I think 2001.)

Slight correction: iRex has been around a good while longer than since 2005. (I think 2001.)
Thanks, that's correct, I found reference to 2001 here:
http://eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=SYT4ZKN002BFSQSNDBESK HA?articleID=175006885

Some VERY interesting new info from the Teleread Blog...apparently iRex told Banko Collins (he visited them and is now writing a review on Teleread) that the Iliad can handle 10000+ Page-Turns on a fully loaded battery. WOW!
So it's about the same as for the HanLin readers. Thanks, I put that info in our matrix!

My concern right now is less the DRM than the content availability. Sony, for all it's bad DRM history, seems to at least have addressed this, while content for the others are a big question mark at this point. Since for me this is a recreational reading device - not for practical, educational, or business use, I would be really hesitant to buy anything but the Sony until I know that the same or better level of content will be available for the others.

I would also think that textbooks would be a wonderful niche for these. I can remember carrying many pounds of bulky texts to class though 8 years of college! I wonder if anyone is planning this use? It could be a big foot in the door and given the cost of college texts, the $350 or so cost of the devices would not be all that significant.

I read the matrix comparison post that you have made available. I'm wondering is there anyway to anticipate the quality i.e. the longevity of these second generation ebook readers? I have a ebookman 911 and it is starting to breakdown and I don't think I can get it fixed. Do you think one manufactuer-Sony,Jinke, Dutch- is more reliable than the other two? It's my experience that if things go wrong with the hardware they don't repair it, they replace it. What kind of warranty is coming with these new units. TIA EDUJ

I think this is the kind of things that manufacturers should be taken to task for.

Yes, I'm being picky, but if you have to convert a file from RTF or TXT to some other format to make it readable, than it is dishonest to say that the Sony Reader "supports" RTF or TXT. Supports should mean, to my ornery self, you can load an RTF or TXT file right on the thing and it will work.

I wish the marketing literature did a better job of differentiating what formats are supported natively (without conversion) and which ones are supported via conversion. This is why I am still confused about whether or not PDF is natively supported, because the blurbs on the Sony website suggest it both ways.

Mostly, I'm just tired of converting stuff. :grin2:


i agree :)

/signed

a big plus for the Iliad, apparently the only device that does not need to convrt everything.
i only hope a company like mobipocket makes a free multi-format and full-featured reader for this platform.
iRex doe not want to make the viewers itself as it seems and is messing about with dedicated viewers for the different formats...not a good idea in my opinion.

What kind of warranty is coming with these new units. TIA EDUJ

Jinke V8 is the only device, you can really buy now (F.O.B. Tianjin $250).

Here is a pdf file with user manual & warranty for Jinke V8 Readman
http://www.jinke.com.cn/compagesql/upload/download/downres00000049.pdf

It's written in realy awful english, but it's all we have now ((
Until there is no real Sony & Irex - no real user manuals & warranties...

More then 30 days left to the end of April (official Irex shipment), and more then 60 to Sony's shipment (end of spring) - many things can change up to that time.

and more then 60 to Sony's shipment (end of spring)

Actually, I read somewhere that the Sony was supposed to be releaseed in April, but that may have been conjecture by the writer. I don't recall where I read it.

Of course, who really knows whether any manufarcturer will meet their "projected" release date? They seldom seem to....

Take Care

Actually, I read somewhere that the Sony was supposed to be releaseed in April,


http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?&ProductSKU=PRS500
"Available in Spring 2006." - means till the end of of spring Sony probably will tell us, they begin sell it ))

But the pop up picture of Connect store
http://products.sel.sony.com/pa/prs/reader_features.html

gives us some hope, this device will be available before 19 may (see Da Vinci book announcement).
So, the pessimistic, but real date, we can operate with - about 15th May.

From today it means more then 50 days. (((

So, the pessimistic, but real date, we can operate with - about 15th May.

I found the April release reference. It was PC World.....

PC World Sony Reader (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,124126,00.asp)

I found the April release reference. It was PC World.....


Unfortunately, it means nothing (((
The only thing I know exactly - Sony wants and needs to be the first company in this market. With e-ink readers I mean. So, may be we'll see it in April, before Irex. ))

There was a post in the Suggestions forum at Mobipocket asking if they would develop software for the Iliad. The reply was:
"Perhaps. It is still in discussion."
At least that is something - we can hope!

that would be cool...mobipocket is a good piece of software...:-)

and it's free... :scholar:

I think, it would be good to add an info about displays dimensions - (in mm), not only in pixels (800x600) and inches (6", 8.1")

For example (Jinke, Sony) - Primary Display (90mm by 120mm) 6-inch SVGA 800x600 4 grey scales, 166.7pp
Irex - Primary Display (XXmm by XXXmm) 8.1-inch XGA 1024x768 16 grey scales, 158ppi

I think, it would be good to add an info about displays dimensions - (in mm), not only in pixels (800x600) and inches (6", 8.1")

For example (Jinke, Sony) - Primary Display (90mm by 120mm) 6-inch SVGA 800x600 4 grey scales, 166.7pp
Irex - Primary Display (XXmm by XXXmm) 8.1-inch XGA 1024x768 16 grey scales, 158ppi
That's a good idea, let's try to find the info for the iRex's dimensions somewhere.

122x163mm
it's right there in the data-pdf....-)
http://www.irextechnologies.com/downloads/Productleaflet-Iliad.pdf

122x163mm
it's right there in the data-pdf....-)
http://www.irextechnologies.com/downloads/Productleaflet-Iliad.pdf
Thanks guys, it's updated.

The matrix lists the internal Sony Reader memory as 64 MB; however, the CONNECT software lists the internal memory available on my Reader as 91.9. To test this I loaded enough files to fill it and it did indeed hold about 90 MB of files.

The matrix lists the internal Sony Reader memory as 64 MB; however, the CONNECT software lists the internal memory available on my Reader as 91.9. To test this I loaded enough files to fill it and it did indeed hold about 90 MB of files.
This is true for me too. Does anyone know the exact number of available memory?

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the total memory was something like 128 Mb -- I wouldn't put too much weight on that, I don't know how reliable it is.

Whatever the 'total' memory is, they clearly put the OS/App set into it too, and we get whatever's left over. As noted, right now it's around 90Mb. I think the "64 Mb of User Accessible Memory" thing is more in the area of a statement that they don't plan to fill so much of the internal memory that they leave us less than that 64 Mb.

I guess I said all that to say this: whatever the current usable memory is, I think it's likely to move around some with firmware updates. :shrug:

That's a lot of speculation in there, so salt to taste. :nice:

igorsk has a definitive answer on the memory size (from this thread (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8798)):

The total size of installed flash memory is 128MB. The size of the user's data partition is 91.875MB.Seeing as it's igorsk, it's good enough for me. :yes:

I read the matrix comparison post that you have made available. I'm wondering is there anyway to anticipate the quality i.e. the longevity of these second generation ebook readers? I have a ebookman 911 and it is starting to breakdown and I don't think I can get it fixed. Do you think one manufacture-Sony,Jinke, Dutch- is more reliable than the other two? It's my experience that if things go wrong with the hardware they don't repair it, they replace it. What kind of warranty is coming with these new units. TIA EDUJ

I noticed on the Sony page, service plans much like the apple service plans.
1 yr $ 69 or 79 , then progressively more up to 4 yrs. It may have been $39ish for one year now that I think about it. These included accidental damage.
Between that and the online offers of $150 in ebooks and another $50 in classics
(unfortunately ends today... has to be registered by 07/31/2007) would make the Sony a real contender as price after all ebooks is $100. But there is also the chase credit card deal if you can find the right offer page and get in. Thats $50 but you need to get approved, get the card, then register on the Sony rewards site, and $299 will be billed to card, and 8 weeks later credited back.

:book2:digicatz:cool:

Yes, I'm being picky, but if you have to convert a file from RTF or TXT to some other format to make it readable, than it is dishonest to say that the Sony Reader "supports" RTF or TXT. Supports should mean, to my ornery self, you can load an RTF or TXT file right on the thing and it will work.
:

You do load the file directly to the reader and it works. The software may do a conversion as part of the downloading to the reader but you don't notice any coversion taking place and it doesn't take any time.

I think this is the kind of things that manufacturers should be taken to task for.

Yes, I'm being picky, but if you have to convert a file from RTF or TXT to some other format to make it readable, than it is dishonest to say that the Sony Reader "supports" RTF or TXT. Supports should mean, to my ornery self, you can load an RTF or TXT file right on the thing and it will work.

I wish the marketing literature did a better job of differentiating what formats are supported natively (without conversion) and which ones are supported via conversion. This is why I am still confused about whether or not PDF is natively supported, because the blurbs on the Sony website suggest it both ways.

Mostly, I'm just tired of converting stuff. :grin2:
The Sony Reader will read RTF and TXT directly. It always has. We just suggest converting to LRF because you can have a better format in most cases. When you read RTF, links and graphics do not work and if the font size is too small, it won't show very well. Text is just text and if the line ends are a mess or the paragraphs are a mess then it's just a messy read. So yes, the literature saying the Reader supports RTF and TXT is 100% correct.

I noticed on the Sony page, service plans much like the apple service plans.
1 yr $ 69 or 79 , then progressively more up to 4 yrs. It may have been $39ish for one year now that I think about it.
:book2:digicatz:cool:

That's ok if you're a US resident but for the rest of us Sony wont even sell the reader to us. We have to go to a third party retailer in the US to buy them so don't get the chance to buy into the service plan.

hm.... from what I can tell, on that wiki comparison matrix page, under "hanlin v2" is shows a picture of the "hanlin v8." The specs that are in that column, what are they actually from?

hm.... from what I can tell, on that wiki comparison matrix page, under "hanlin v2" is shows a picture of the "hanlin v8." The specs that are in that column, what are they actually from?

The picture is actually depicting a v2, at least according to Jinke's homepage (http://www.jinke.com.cn/compagesql/English/embedpro/prodetail.asp?id=20). But then, it seems they brought out a new v2 device, the v2b (http://www.jinke.com.cn/Compagesql/English/embedpro/prodetail.asp?id=40), which does look indeed different, while the v8 looks now like the v2 from our Matrix. Quite confusing indeed. I'll contact them -- maybe they can shed some light into this. :rolleyes:

I'm looking to take the plunge and purchase an e-book reading device.

I already know I want an e-ink based device but after that I'm a bit stuck.

I've got down to 2 possibles I think, the iRex iLiad and the Bookeen CyBook V3.

Which device will give me the best range of reading material? What's the difference between e-ink and e-ink vizplex?

Am I even considering the right two devices?

I really need an ebook soon before my paper book habit gets me thrown out of the house! :book2:

Thanks in advance.

Chris

I'm hoping long term the irex will have a larger range of software developed for it as they're trying to make it more developer friendly. If anyone comes up with a version of the sony reader software ported to the iliad it will nearly be the perfect reader (shame about the price tho)

I've got down to 2 possibles I think, the iRex iLiad and the Bookeen CyBook V3.

Which device will give me the best range of reading material? What's the difference between e-ink and e-ink vizplex? Since you are outside the US, the Cybook is probably your best bet for a device with a 6" screen.

Vizplex is the newest E-Ink screen. Its primary improvement is faster page turn speed. The iLiad uses the previous generation of E-Ink, but its custom controller, larger size and 16 grey scales still gives it the edge in everything except the time required to go to a new page. It is significantly more expensive though.

Both the iLiad and the Cybook use MobiPocket Reader software, so there is little practical difference in available e-books. MOBI is the only "secure", DRM-ridden, format supported on these devices - but it is one of the most popular. The iLiad also has FBReader, which will read many (DRM-free) reflowable e-book formats. However, it is typically possible to convert a non-secure e-book to the MOBI format on a desktop computer. So MOBI support is enough (and Cybook will support more formats natively over time).

Standard A4 PDFs are readable on the iLiad, less so (even after optimization) on the Cybook. Note that neither one will read Secure Adobe e-books (Secure PDFs).

The E-book Reader Matrix mentions that the Cybook Gen3 supports the "OEB-XHTML" format. I could not find any confirmation of that on the official site or anywhere else...

Could you clarify where you got that information from?

Thanks,
Julien

Do any readers support TXT files compressed with RAR or ZIP?

Do any readers support TXT files compressed with RAR or ZIP?

Yes, I believe the Hanlin units support this.

Dale

Do any readers support TXT files compressed with RAR or ZIP? FBReader is available for the iLiad and supports tar, zip, gzip and bzip2 archives. RAR is not supported, because there is no open source implementation.

Unrar IS open source.

If I understand correctly, what the FBReader developers object to is that RAR archiving is not open source. So unrar will decode rar archives, but there is no way to create a rar archive using open source code.

One of the better features of open source projects is that they are free not to support anything they don't want to. This is sometimes frustrating for users, but on balance it is a good thing.

If I understand correctly, what the FBReader developers object to is that RAR archiving is not open source. So unrar will decode rar archives, but there is no way to create a rar archive using open source code.

One of the better features of open source projects is that they are free not to support anything they don't want to. This is sometimes frustrating for users, but on balance it is a good thing.

this is a much different answer than you gave last time.

Dale

Hi All,

I am a brand newy to all this ereader stuff and understand very little (Very impressive compelation of other ereader, but went straight over my head).

I am in Australia and at the moment the only ereader that i can find is the irex iLiad 2nd ed which can be posted from the US (this is roughly the same price for me to buy the 1st here in oz so i was just going straight for the 2nd ed). I was just wondering about people's thoughts on the ease of use of the iLiad, eg getting stuff from net to reader (is it through a computer?) and the battery life. Whilst it is still a little pricey, i am willing to pay due the the fact that i am an avid reader and i have just strated a new job with lots of travelling and pdf's to read. Are the pdf's, especially scientific papers easy to read on the iLiad?

Thanks for any help.

Cheers
novice

If PDFs are important to you, then yes, the iLiad is the best choice to make. If you want to read fiction, you can do so for a lot less money with the CyBook Gen3, or the Sony Reader.

I am in Australia and at the moment the only ereader that i can find is the irex iLiad 2nd ed which can be posted from the US (this is roughly the same price for me to buy the 1st here in oz so i was just going straight for the 2nd ed). I was just wondering about people's thoughts on the ease of use of the iLiad, eg getting stuff from net to reader (is it through a computer?) and the battery life. Whilst it is still a little pricey, i am willing to pay due the the fact that i am an avid reader and i have just strated a new job with lots of travelling and pdf's to read. Are the pdf's, especially scientific papers easy to read on the iLiad? The iLiad is definitely your best bet for scientific papers in PDF (try searching the iLiad forum for scientific and medical). Battery life is about 15 hours, and you connect the iLiad to any computer via USB to copy files to the iLiad (internal memory, or CF card, etcetera). It can also read from a USB stick, although I have never used this capability. I have not found the WiFi to be usable (i.e. to avoid the need for a desktop computer for downloads), because its web browsers are not yet very good.

Dymocks sells the Iliad, and I assume this is the 2nd edition, see Iliad now available from Dymocks $899 Aus (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17218).

If PDFs are important to you, then yes, the iLiad is the best choice to make. If you want to read fiction, you can do so for a lot less money with the CyBook Gen3, or the Sony Reader.
:)


The main thing the reader is for is fiction, with PDF being a second (although a close second). And with being a second, the price difference between the iLiad and the others becomes larger. Does anybody know how well the Cybook or the Sony reader go in viewing PDFs, are they good, passable or not good?

Also the other readers of the CyBook and the Sony reader, they say they take mobipocket format ebooks. Does this mean that any ebook store online that says a book is in mobipocket format can be used and read on these devices. When i was looking up the Sony reader i thought it said that the only books that could be read on it were from the sony online bookshop and then the bookshop said was only downloadable in the US. :chinscratch: though i may be wrong :o

Thanks for all the help

:)


The main thing the reader is for is fiction, with PDF being a second (although a close second). And with being a second, the price difference between the iLiad and the others becomes larger. Does anybody know how well the Cybook or the Sony reader go in viewing PDFs, are they good, passable or not good?

They are fine when reading PDFs correctly formatted for the 6" screen size of the device. They are pretty bad when reading A4/Letter sized PDFs - pretty obvious given the fact that they have a screen which has approximately 1/6th the area of an A4 sheet.

Also the other readers of the CyBook and the Sony reader, they say they take mobipocket format ebooks. Does this mean that any ebook store online that says a book is in mobipocket format can be used and read on these devices. When i was looking up the Sony reader i thought it said that the only books that could be read on it were from the sony online bookshop and then the bookshop said was only downloadable in the US. :chinscratch: though i may be wrong :o

The CyBook supports MobiPocket; the Sony does not.

But there are EASY ways of converting from Mobipocket and MS Reader into LRF that the 500/505 can display

But there are EASY ways of converting from Mobipocket and MS Reader into LRF that the 500/505 can display

... which may or may not be legal to use, according to where you live.

:)

I have had a look, and i have decided on the CyBook (Thanks Harry). I have ordered it today so will be here in a coulpe of weeks.

Are you able to tell me if the Cybooks are able to take all the formats on fictionwise; and if not, which ones do i avoid when buying.

Cheers

Are you able to tell me if the Cybooks are able to take all the formats on fictionwise; and if not, which ones do i avoid when buying. With FictionWise multi-format books you get all the formats for one price, and can download a different format later if you get a new reading device. If you want simplicity, then only buy multi-format or Secure MobiPocket e-books for your Cybook. Download the .PRC (MobiPocket) version of multi-format e-books. It is also possible to buy Secure Microsoft Reader (LIT) e-books, if you have a Windows PC, and convert them to DRM-free MOBI (where format shifting a DRM protected file is legal). If an e-book is only available in eReader format, this can probably be converted to DRM-free MOBI too - but the longest and best track record belongs to the LIT to MOBI approach. NEVER buy Secure Adobe Reader e-books.

I was considering getting a Cybook so that I could purchase ebooks in Mobipocket format. Since these are DRM'd, I expect I will have to use some proprietary software to download it to the Cybook and this will probably run only on Windows. Is this correct? Or will I be able to buy and put it in my reader using my Linux box?

I was considering getting a Cybook so that I could purchase ebooks in Mobipocket format. Since these are DRM'd, I expect I will have to use some proprietary software to download it to the Cybook and this will probably run only on Windows. Is this correct? Or will I be able to buy and put it in my reader using my Linux box?

Cybook does not require Windows. The id of the reader, obtained from the about screen, can be entered into the web site where you purchase the book and then you can just mount the reader via usb to move the file over.

Dale

Cybook does not require Windows. The id of the reader, obtained from the about screen, can be entered into the web site where you purchase the book and then you can just mount the reader via usb to move the file over.

Dale

That being said, if you want to use the Mobipocket Reader or Creator software, they are Windows only (according to the user manual). Not a deal breaker, but it's good to know :)

It is also possible to buy Secure Microsoft Reader (LIT) e-books, if you have a Windows PC, and convert them to DRM-free MOBI (where format shifting a DRM protected file is legal). If an e-book is only available in eReader format, this can probably be converted to DRM-free MOBI too.

How is this done, through which programme? And is it legal in Australia?

Also which version of mobipocket reader do people recommmend, version 6.1 or beta?


:thanks:

That being said, if you want to use the Mobipocket Reader or Creator software, they are Windows only (according to the user manual). Not a deal breaker, but it's good to know :)

They are, but tompe here at MR has written a freely available PERL tool for creating MobiPocket files which is platform independent.

Alexander et al, many thanks for an excellent compilation. This is gonna make it a lot easier to make my decision about which E Ink device to buy. :2thumbsup

I think I really do need to give one of these devices a try and move away from backlit screens, since many of you here seem so enthusiastic about E Ink.

Tommy

After looking at the comparative prices in the above matrix, I understand one major reason why ebook readers haven´t become popular items. The prices listed are roughly what anyone who understands computers would probably pay for a fully functional computer, on ebay. In fact one of my friends said he would definitely buy an ebook reader, only capable of reading ebooks; when they start selling them at around $80.

After looking at the comparative prices in the above matrix, I understand one major reason why ebook readers haven´t become popular items. The prices listed are roughly what anyone who understands computers would probably pay for a fully functional computer, on ebay. In fact one of my friends said he would definitely buy an ebook reader, only capable of reading ebooks; when they start selling them at around $80.

That same argument was used against computers over 30 years ago or even MP3 players less than 20 years ago. They were too expensive for what little they offered. As societal patterns began to change, more and more people bought them and the prices eventually fell as more and more people jumped on.

Will we see $80 ebook readers, maybe, but by the time we do you will be one of the last people without one ;)

BTW (on topic) THANK YOU for this matrix. I have been on the fence about an ebook reader (oddly enough i don't like reading physical books, I love electronic and need something portable) and I have been looking around for something like this. I really appreciate your efforts.

.. oh .. and Hi.. :)

There was a time when cars were the "playthings of the rich." Today you need at least two cars to be considered "poor." :D Things change -- once digital cameras were an expensive folly and now 35mm film cameras are show up on the one dollar table at flea markets.

After looking at the comparative prices in the above matrix, I understand one major reason why ebook readers haven´t become popular items. The prices listed are roughly what anyone who understands computers would probably pay for a fully functional computer, on ebay. In fact one of my friends said he would definitely buy an ebook reader, only capable of reading ebooks; when they start selling them at around $80.

I have wondered why people compare it to a computer? With an ebook reader you certain properties that you cannot get with a computer. So why are they directly comparable? You do not compare the price of for example food or clothes with the price of computers.