View Full Version : What's the default ADE font?


Jellby
09-10-2009, 09:09 AM
Does anyone know what's the default font in ADE?

The guide for changing fonts in Sony readers says it's "Dutch Roman" there, is that for ePUB files? Is it the same in all ADE products (desktop reader, Opus, etc.)?

I was going to add an embedded font for the Russian text in my Divine Comedy edition (which I'd expect to remove when ePUB readers properly support changing fonts), and I wanted to find a font that matches the default one as much as possible.

Abecedary
09-10-2009, 10:56 AM
As far as I know, there isn't a "default" font for ADE—it depends on which fonts the manufacturer has licensed for their particular reader's use. For the Sony, the built-in serif is Bitstream's Dutch Roman 801, which is pretty much a bog-standard Times clone. However, the desktop ADE client is using something else, but I've been having a hard time identifying exactly what it is. It looks a bit like Century Old Style, but some of the characters are different. If I'm able to nail it down, I'll post back. But I'd say you should be pretty safe using a Times Roman or Times New Roman.

wallcraft
09-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Is there anything guaranteed by the ePub standard? For example, does the default have to be Serif and does there need to be a Sans Serif font?

Fonts are one of the more significant capabilities of the ePub standard, but ADE's "no user-level customization" approach makes even finding out basic information very difficult. With MOBI, for example, if you want to know which fonts are available on a device just bring up the list of user selectable fonts. MOBI isn't in ePub's league for fonts, but it is more transparent.

Do we need an ePub that tries to use all commonly available fonts? Unfortunately, the best approach would be to have two versions one with included fonts and the other without. However, relatively few fonts can legally be included in ePubs without a licence.

Abecedary
09-10-2009, 11:22 AM
Just a hunch, but I'd guess each reader needs to have some sort of default for the 3 main classes of fonts: serif, sans serif, and monospace. If you just specify those general classes in the stylesheet, you should be safe. If you want to go a step further, the safest bets are Times, Helvetica, and Courier, which any reasonably smart reader implementation will then remap back down to whatever serif, sans, and monospace font it has available. But of course, that makes a pretty big assumption about how the reader will actually work.

As far as embedding fonts, the TeX Gyre collection (http://www.gust.org.pl/projects/e-foundry/tex-gyre/index_html) has decent clones of some common typefaces, and their license seems to allow for free redistribution.

dpierron
09-10-2009, 11:23 AM
I don't think that the default ADE font in the Reader is Dutch Roman...
On my Reader, I followed the procedure and replaced the default Reader fonts with my own fonts ; they show up in the LRF books, but not in ADE, where the default ADE font is still there...
So, not the same physical font file, that's for sure ; and IMHO, it's a different font.

Jellby
09-10-2009, 12:14 PM
Is there anything guaranteed by the ePub standard? For example, does the default have to be Serif and does there need to be a Sans Serif font?

Not that I know of. It only has the (restricted) CSS requirement that "serif", "sans-serif" and "monospaced" (no "cursive" and "fantasy") are recognized names, but they don't have to map to different actual fonts...

Peter Sorotokin
09-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Does anyone know what's the default font in ADE?

It is a multiple-master font which I do not think was released outside Adobe. (we need to have a multiple-master font somewhere in the engine to render PDF documents without embedded fonts). It is somewhat similar to Minion Pro, I think. Times New Roman is also similar, although more distinct.

The guide for changing fonts in Sony readers says it's "Dutch Roman" there, is that for ePUB files?

This is true for BBeB, but not EPUB.

Is it the same in all ADE products (desktop reader, Opus, etc.)?

It is a part of SDK, however device manufacturers can override it (or even make it user-selectable) through user stylesheet.

I was going to add an embedded font for the Russian text in my Divine Comedy edition (which I'd expect to remove when ePUB readers properly support changing fonts), and I wanted to find a font that matches the default one as much as possible.

I understand what you are trying to do, but I think you overestimate the size of the font and underestimate how ugly it will look if fonts happen to not match (e.g. default font is made user-selectable). The ugliness will come not where you'd expect, BTW: the fact that latin and cyrillic text is in different fonts won't look bad (in fact, it will be even more readable - most professionals use a different font or at least italic for foreign-language snippets). However letters from one font and digits and punctuation from another will be terrible.

I assume you have FB2 for your text. Try converting it using http://sorotokin.com/fb2epub.html and look at the font sizes (that converter subsets the font).

Jellby
09-11-2009, 06:37 AM
I understand what you are trying to do, but I think you overestimate the size of the font and underestimate how ugly it will look if fonts happen to not match (e.g. default font is made user-selectable). The ugliness will come not where you'd expect, BTW: the fact that latin and cyrillic text is in different fonts won't look bad (in fact, it will be even more readable - most professionals use a different font or at least italic for foreign-language snippets). However letters from one font and digits and punctuation from another will be terrible.

Either I don't quite understand or you don't. I'm not after a different font only for Cyrillic characters (which could indeed look bad when mixed with numbers or punctuation, which would be taken from the Latin font). I was thinking of using a different font for :lang(ru) elements, where Cyrillic is needed and dominant, but not exclusive. But if the font were user-selectable, I'd leave it to the user, and he would choose a font with both Cyrillic and Latin.

I assume you have FB2 for your text. Try converting it using http://sorotokin.com/fb2epub.html and look at the font sizes (that converter subsets the font).

No, I don't have a FB2, I create the ePUB from scratch (it's here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53475)). Do you assume I have a FB2 because it's a popular format in Russia? The fact is I can't read Russian, I just copied the Russian text from a web page.

brewt
09-13-2009, 10:19 AM
Having/knowing the default font set(s) for the reading devices is very useful - if the original html/css calls it, one can more accurately simulate what someone reading the book on the devices will see.

And until embedding becomes oh-so-much-easier for the likes of me, that's the next best compromise.

I seem to have a copy of the Bitstream/Paratype: DutchRM BT Roman, true type, tt0011m_.ttf. It's in C:\Program Files\Sony\Reader\Data\fonts.
Dutch801 Rm BT Roman contains 377 glyphs and 418 standard kern pairs. This font does not include embedded bitmaps.

There's also a copy of Courier10 BT Roman, which is a monospaced font: tt0419m_.ttf. Courier10 BT Roman contains 377 glyphs and no standard kern pairs. This font does not include embedded bitmaps.

Not to mention Swiss721BT Roman, tt0003m_.ttf (Serif) Swis721 BT Roman contains 377 glyphs and 283 standard kern pairs. This font does not include embedded bitmaps.

If Sony's Dutch Roman = Paratype's Dutch 801, and for some reason you don't have it, it'll set you back a bill.
http://www.paratype.com/btstore/fonts/Dutch-801.htm



-bjc

wallcraft
09-13-2009, 02:59 PM
It is a part of SDK, however device manufacturers can override it (or even make it user-selectable) through user stylesheet. My guess is that all vendors will be using the ADE SDK's default fonts. I attach a small ePub to test this. The screenshots are from the Windows Sony eBook Library viewer. The fonts look identical to these on my EZ Reader Basic and Pocket Pro (Hanlin V3 and V5), and also using Windows ADE.

brewt
09-13-2009, 03:26 PM
Attached is a Microsoft Word 2007 Quickstyle, with all the fonts pointing to the eBook Reader fonts described in this thread.

Unzip it, and put it into C:\Documents and Settings\%USERNAME%\Application Data\Microsoft\QuickStyles (where %USERNAME% = your log-onto-the-computer-name).

It will then show up in your Word2007/Change Styles/Styleset menu.

If it helps.

-bjc

P.S.: If you can't see that directory, in Explorer (system, not internet) go to the Tools/Folder Options menu, View Tab, and change the Radio Button from "Do Not show hidden files and folders" to "Show hidden files and folders".

brewt
09-13-2009, 03:29 PM
Oh, has anybody sorted out Grayscale in Font Color to the Sony Reader yet? I'm pretty sure the awful colors in my Quickstyleset won't quite show up the same way on the device but esem to be various shades of gray. Might be useful.

Abecedary
09-13-2009, 04:36 PM
My guess is that all vendors will be using the ADE SDK's default fonts. I attach a small ePub to test this. The screenshots are from the Windows Sony eBook Library viewer. The fonts look identical to these on my EZ Reader Basic and Pocket Pro (Hanlin V3 and V5), and also using Windows ADE.

If that's the case, then that's horribly disappointing. That means that none of the ADE readers have real italics or bolds. They're all faked by either simply slanting or fattening the roman font. If it weren't for the facts that ADEPT encryption has been broken and that you can specify other fonts via stylesheets, I would've turned right around and sold my Sony. At least with the Kindle they actually include a real italic.

Peter Sorotokin
09-14-2009, 03:59 PM
Either I don't quite understand or you don't. I'm not after a different font only for Cyrillic characters (which could indeed look bad when mixed with numbers or punctuation, which would be taken from the Latin font). I was thinking of using a different font for :lang(ru) elements, where Cyrillic is needed and dominant, but not exclusive. But if the font were user-selectable, I'd leave it to the user, and he would choose a font with both Cyrillic and Latin.

Ah, OK, so I did not understand it. BTW, I still would still pick a nice-looking font (perhaps a font which would invoke Dante's time) even for Latin characters. Given the size of this book, it would not bloat it too much. Assigning it to the body element would still allow user stylesheet to override it if desired.

No, I don't have a FB2, I create the ePUB from scratch (it's here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53475)). Do you assume I have a FB2 because it's a popular format in Russia? The fact is I can't read Russian, I just copied the Russian text from a web page.

My mistake again. Yes, I have assumed you have an FB2 because it is close to being a de-facto standard for book distribution in Russia at the moment.

Peter