Hi guys,

Ive been reading the posts about the Pocket Pro and really wanna preorder. However, I still have some questions about the file formats and whether or not I can buy books from some websites. Since this little thing supports everything from epub, lit, mobi, and so on. I was wondering if I can buy books from the Sony ebookstore and transfer them to the PP since it can support epub. Also, would Amazon allows me to buy thier books since PP can read the mobi/prc file? Thanks a bunch. I cant wait to preorder one! It is definitely the best deal anyone can get for $199. I did look at the PRS300 but the idea of expansion slot on PP got to me. I wonder though if the text and background contrast on PP looks as good as the 300. Any ideas? Thanks!:)

Oh one more thing, I can check out ebook from the library with the PP right?

The Pocket Pro supports many formats, but most of them are for DRM-free (i.e. without encryption) ebooks only. There are exceptions, but most ebooks you buy from on-line stores come with DRM. The Pocket Pro currently supports Adobe DRM, which is Adobe PDF ebooks and Adobe ePub ebooks. It will probably later on (but not yet) also support eReader DRM, which is what the Barnes & Noble ebook store uses.

The Sony ebook store has announced that they are switching all their ebooks to Adobe ePub by the end of the year. So this will be a good source of ebooks for the Pocket Pro eventually, but currently they use the Sony-only LRX format.

With the exception of LRX (and TOPAZ for the Kindle), all the other popular ebook DRM schemes can be circumvented. So you can buy MOBI or LIT or eReader ebooks and read them on the Pocket Pro by stripping their DRM (and perhaps format shifting the DRM-free ebook using Calibre). Note that Adobe DRM has also beeen circumvented, so you are not locking yourself into Adobe-ready devices by buying Adobe ebooks. It will probably never be tested in court, but stripping DRM from ebooks for personal non-commercial use is likely legal in the US.

The Kindle's AZW format is MOBI, but you can't buy a Kindle ebook without either a Kindle or a iPhone/iPod Touch. A small faction of Kindle ebooks are in the TOPAZ format, which can't be read by non-Amazon devices at all.

Oh one more thing, I can check out ebook from the library with the PP right? Yes. You can check out Adobe PDF and ePub ebooks for the library. This has been confirmed for the EZ Reader Basic, which is using the same version of Adobe Digital Editions as the Pocket Pro.

Thanks Wallcraft. So if Im understanding correctly, as of right now I cant buy books either from Amazon, Sony and B&N but will likely able to soon with the last two. As for books I want to buy from other ebook websites, I will likely have to strip the DRM for all of them to be able to use them in the PP, right? Unless there are Adobe PDF and Adobe ePub. Is there an easy way to do this? I know we can use free calibre program. I will check that out to see how hard it is. Also, I am wondering if I should just go with Sony 300 to eliminate stripping DRM for every ebooks I buy and just buy from Sony website. How often can I find books readily in Adobe PDF and Epub? Sorry if I ask a lot of maybe already answered questions. I am new to this and a lot of terms are still a bit confusing. Bear with me and thanks for all your help!

Most bookstores now sell ePub books, so no "DRM-stripping" is required.

However, I would sound a note of caution. The Asktak device is a Jinke clone, and the ePub support on the other Jinke devices is extremely poor, so there's really no reason to expect anything better from Astak. There are other devices on the market (eg those from Sony and Bookeen) which have much better ePub support, so you should perhaps consider one of those instead of the Astak.

In the US Books on Board (http://www.booksonboard.com/index.html) is a good source for Adobe ePub ebooks. In the UK, ePub is the dominant format and I like WHSmith (http://ebooks.whsmith.co.uk).

If you want to use a single ebook store, then the Amazon Kindle is the best choice and the Sony PRS-300 and the Sony store is probably the 2nd best option today.

Once the EZ Reader's get eReader support, they will have a wider selection of stores to choose from (without striping DRM) than any other EInk devices. At that point the B&N store could become your primary source of ebooks. Choosing a device based on future capabilities is dangerous, but in this case the Pocket Pro already has Adobe PDF/ePub so eReader can be thought of as a bonus.

However, I would sound a note of caution. The Asktak device is a Jinke clone, and the ePub support on the other Jinke devices is extremely poor, so there's really no reason to expect anything better from Astak. There are other devices on the market (eg those from Sony and Bookeen) which have much better ePub support, so you should perhaps consider one of those instead of the Astak.

I have an Astak EZ-Reader and have read ADE/Epub books on it and have not sufferred any debilitating conditions due to the Epub support on the device.:)

My advice to you is to look at the features of each device side by side, for example compare the Astak Pocket Pro to the Sony 300. Look at the formats supported presently, and make your decision on what features are best suited to your individual needs.

Beside Astak, Foxits Eslick also says it will support Ereader format in the near future. The reason I went was Astaks Ereader was the Adobe Digital Editions support, which allows me to read library books on it.

I have an Astak EZ-Reader and have read ADE/Epub books on it and have not sufferred any debilitating conditions due to the Epub support on the device.:)


Does it support hyperlinks? The version of ADE on the BeBook and Hanlin V3 do not.

Does it support hyperlinks? The version of ADE on the BeBook and Hanlin V3 do not.

I have never had a need to use hyperlinks and not having it has not made it unusable. My point is there are pro's and con's about each device and only by comparison of features and the needs of the end user can one say one is better for them than another. You can read books on any of the devices.

I have never had a need to use hyperlinks and not having it has not made it unusable. My point is there are pro's and con's about each device and only by comparison of features and the needs of the end user can one say one is better for them than another. You can read books on any of the devices.

Many books have lots of endnotes, and hyperlinks are essential for reading those. Lack of them doesn't make the book "unreadable", certainly, but it's a damned nuisance.

Could you test such a book and find out, when you have a moment? - I'd be interested to know.

If you download the first volume of my H. Rider Haggard Anthology, here:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54886

and look at the "Introduction" of "King Solomon's Mines" (the first book in the anthology), you'll see a hyperlink labelled "[1]" on what will probably be the first page of the introduction. Does the EZReader allow you to select that hyperlink?

Does the EZReader allow you to select that hyperlink?

On the EZReader, hyperlinks work in Mobi format, but do not work in epub. This is true of all current Jinke firmware for the device.

Thanks for confirming that. That, for me, is a major issue. It may not be for others, of course.

Thanks for confirming that. That, for me, is a major issue. It may not be for others, of course.

This certainly can be addressed with a firmware fix, and as you say may be annoying, but does not make the book unreadable.

However, I would sound a note of caution. The Asktak device is a Jinke clone, and the ePub support on the other Jinke devices is extremely poor, so there's really no reason to expect anything better from Astak. There are other devices on the market (eg those from Sony and Bookeen) which have much better ePub support, so you should perhaps consider one of those instead of the Astak.

Harry, I think that yours is an important point. But isn't that a firmware issue? It isn't clear to me why the poor performance of the BeBook where you live should be expected of the Astak where I live.

I will very much look forward to learning of the experience of those who pre-ordered the Pocket Pro.

edit to add: Oops! It looks like Musicman has already brought up the firmware issue.

Thanks Wallcraft. So if Im understanding correctly, as of right now I cant buy books either from Amazon, Sony and B&N but will likely able to soon with the last two. As for books I want to buy from other ebook websites, I will likely have to strip the DRM for all of them to be able to use them in the PP, right? Unless there are Adobe PDF and Adobe ePub. Is there an easy way to do this? I know we can use free calibre program. I will check that out to see how hard it is. Also, I am wondering if I should just go with Sony 300 to eliminate stripping DRM for every ebooks I buy and just buy from Sony website. How often can I find books readily in Adobe PDF and Epub? Sorry if I ask a lot of maybe already answered questions. I am new to this and a lot of terms are still a bit confusing. Bear with me and thanks for all your help!

An ounce of caution is needed when considering books from the Sony store. The Sony store sold secure books, that is, current publications, in the BBeB format. They recently announced that they are dropping BBeB and will sell only in ePub. The problem is that that some books you buy there are in BBeB format: the site doesn't tell you what format the book you're buying is in. Sony hasn't announced yet what sort of support they will give in future for books sold in that format. The last books I got there were all BBeB formatted.

I am leaning towards the EZ reader. I want to buy some books from fictionwise but they only come in secure mobipocket and secure ereader format. The question is can I just download the mobi version and have it readable on PP? Or I might not be able to since it might only support the DRM-free mobi (according to Wallcraft on earlier post) hmm...Or maybe I can buy them in ereader and use calibre to convert it to other formats that would work on the PP? Will calibre strip the DRM as well as convert? I went to Bookonboards and cant find anything I like there. Anywhere else sell Adobe PDF?

Ok I just reread Wallcraft post again..and I guess calibre can only be used to convert cross format with DRM-free ebooks only. Dang! Guess there's no easy way out but deDRM those puppies unless I only buy books with Adobe PDF/ePub and hopeful that Sony switch all thier books to ePub soon enough and that the PP support the ereader fast so I can use BN as well. I guess I want the easy way out. No Kindle suggestion please. I want to actually "own" books I bought. :)

I'm in the same boat as you, superstitious. And I still have to learn how to do all of this format/DRM business.

Well, glad to know Im not the only one GA Russell! :D I have just been learning and reading everything and everywhere. I think I am going to wait till some people get their hands on the PP to see if it is for me. But man, I feel like I might not be able to wait. The more I read the more excited I get. lol :)

In order to strip MOBI and eReader DRM you need to use python scripts from the command line, the best place to start to look for these is the darkreverser weblog. In the comments to the the blog you might even find a Windows GUI version for MOBI that is easier to use. Note that for MOBI you need a PID, and often the best source is the PID of your Windows PC running Desktop MobiPocket Reader.

Calibre only deals with DRM-free ebooks. You may want to use it to convert your DRM-free ebooks to an optimal format for the Pocket Pro. Probably ePub or FB2 will be best.

This certainly can be addressed with a firmware fix, and as you say may be annoying, but does not make the book unreadable.

It's certainly a firmware issue, but if there's one thing I've learned in the 25-odd years I've been reading eBooks it's this: buy a device for what you know it can do, not for what you hope it may be upgraded to do in the future.

All I'm saying is that if reading ePub books is important to you, there are currently much better devices for that format. That may change in the future, but it's true at the moment.

It's certainly a firmware issue, but if there's one thing I've learned in the 25-odd years I've been reading eBooks it's this: buy a device for what you know it can do, not for what you hope it may be upgraded to do in the future.

I agree with you 100% on buying a device for what you know it can do now, and that is why I bought the EZ-Reader. I wanted flexibility and did not want to be locked into one particular format and the EZ-Reader was the device that best suited my immediate needs. It added ADE as a bonus imo so the shortcomings as such are not that important to me at this point.

If Sony or Amazon had opened up their readers, then I might have gone with them.

Is there a place where I can find a really detailed information about all the file formats the PP actually take? Like other than the PDF and ePub. I want to know if the secure mocrosoft reader version (lit) will work for this without deDRM or not. Also, since this thing supports a lot of file types , knowing whether it takes DRM or Non-DRM version would be nice. I looked at the wiki for the PP. It only shows which files are supported but not an extensive version of whether or not those files have to be DRM or DRM-free to work on the PP (without converting of course). Thanks!

I looked at the wiki for the PP. It only shows which files are supported but not an extensive version of whether or not those files have to be DRM or DRM-free to work on the PP The only DRMed formats are Adobe ePub and PDF. The wiki and most reports say that DRM-free MOBI is supported, but there is a ? on MOBI because some people with a Hanlin V5 say there is no MOBI support (and they should know).

There are at least three "readers" on the device, each for a different set of formats. Adobe Digital Editions is used for ePub and PDF. CoolReader is used for FB2 and RTF. Several of the other formats use a PDF-like reader that maps the format to standard pages and then renders those pages in one of 3 "zoom levels". I am not a fan of the last reader, although it works in a pinch. LIT in particular seems to be buggy, and I suggest using Calibre to convert DRM-free LIT to FB2 or ePub. My recommendations are based on the EZ Reader Basic. I have a Pocket Pro on order.

I agree with you 100% on buying a device for what you know it can do now, and that is why I bought the EZ-Reader. I wanted flexibility and did not want to be locked into one particular format and the EZ-Reader was the device that best suited my immediate needs. It added ADE as a bonus imo so the shortcomings as such are not that important to me at this point.

If Sony or Amazon had opened up their readers, then I might have gone with them.

What format can you read on your Ezreader that the Sony 300/600 won't read? Mobi/PRC, right? But you have to choose Mobi/PRC or ePub. And right now it seems that Aztek is only offering a crippled version of ePub, so using your acid test, if Aztek opens there readers to inlcude full ePub support in the future, maybe then folks should consider the Ezreader. I think you are being purposefully disingenuous saying the Sony Readers aren't 'flexible' by implying that the owner would be "locked into one particular format."

AZtek will soon have the ereader format in DRM also.
Chuck

What format can you read on your Ezreader that the Sony 300/600 won't read? Mobi/PRC, right? But you have to choose Mobi/PRC or ePub. And right now it seems that Aztek is only offering a crippled version of ePub, so using your acid test, if Aztek opens there readers to inlcude full ePub support in the future, maybe then folks should consider the Ezreader. I think you are being purposefully disingenuous saying the Sony Readers aren't 'flexible' by implying that the owner would be "locked into one particular format."

The EZ-Reader will read the following file formats:
ADE (Adobe Digital Edition), PDF, TXT, PDB, DOC, HTML, FB2, LIT, MP3, EPUB, PRC, WOL, CHM, PPT, TIF, PNG,GIF, RAR, ZIP, DJVU, JPG, BMP, with future support for Ereader DRM which is my preferred format (the only other reader that is available and says they will support Ereader DRM is Eslick).

The Mobi/PRC is non DRM.

I actually prefer how FB2 looks. Does Sony Support FB2?

Not supporting Mobi/PRC in its non DRM format is in my opinion a negative.

The EZ-Reader will read the following file formats:
ADE (Adobe Digital Edition), PDF, TXT, PDB, DOC, HTML, FB2, LIT, MP3, EPUB, PRC, WOL, CHM, PPT, TIF, PNG,GIF, RAR, ZIP, DJVU, JPG, BMP, with future support for Ereader DRM...

Question for the well-versed masters...

Rate the Hanlin, specifically the Astak EZ line, format support in terms of quality. 10 for great support, 1 for the most rudimentary of support, for each supported format.

DOCUMENTS
ADE
PDF
TXT
PDB
DOC
HTML
FB2
LIT
EPUB
PRC
WOL
CHM
DJVU

IMAGES
PPT
TIF
PNG
GIF
JPG
BMP
Ereader DRM

RAR & ZIP are simply archived images files, and may be listed as CBR and CBZ (ComicBookRar & ComicBookZip)

Does this mean that the V3 and clones are all using the same buggy ADE code?

Sony's ADe does not yet have full justification. But other than that, it works rather well (for ADE).

The ADE that is there at the moment for the V3 looks to be the basic ADE SKU. We are excepting updated firmware as soon as the developers have the time to make the updates. I would think that even the first firmware release of the Sony's did not have it right the the first time.

Chuck

BTW,

I see everyone referring to the mobi support using the prc filetype. Will it also read .mobi files?

Thx

The EZ-Reader will read the following file formats:
ADE (Adobe Digital Edition), <snip>

FYI: ADE is not a format. The ADE viewer in the EZ Reader is used for the ePub and PDF formats. (Perhaps others too.)

BOb

The ADE that is there at the moment for the V3 looks to be the basic ADE SKU. We are excepting updated firmware as soon as the developers have the time to make the updates. I would think that even the first firmware release of the Sony's did not have it right the the first time.

Chuck
Actually, Sony did get it right. The only thing missing from Sony's ADE is full justification. The reason it's not there is that when Sony implemented ADE, ADE did not have full justification. But that being said, other than that, Sony surely did get it right. Internal hyperlinks work fine.

The EZ-Reader will read the following file formats:
ADE (Adobe Digital Edition), PDF, TXT, PDB, DOC, HTML, FB2, LIT, MP3, EPUB, PRC, WOL, CHM, PPT, TIF, PNG,GIF, RAR, ZIP, DJVU, JPG, BMP, with future support for Ereader DRM which is my preferred format (the only other reader that is available and says they will support Ereader DRM is Eslick).

The Mobi/PRC is non DRM.

I actually prefer how FB2 looks. Does Sony Support FB2?

Not supporting Mobi/PRC in its non DRM format is in my opinion a negative.

OK, highlighting the ones that Sony's Readers also have in red, that leaves:
DOC: Haven't seen a eBook in DOC, but any WP will convert to TXT; and DOC is a legacy format anyway, what no DOCX?

HTML: Same as above, any WP converts, so anyone with a Sony's got that one too
RAR & ZIP: Not seen as eBook formats, these are just compression utilities that wrap a valid eBook format
DJVU, TIF and PPT: Visual formats for looking at pretty pictures, but no utility as an eBook format.
WOL, CHM, FB2: Can you even FIND a eBook in this format? Not one of the top ten eBook merchants carry this format, so unless you subscribe to some George Noory Double Secret Probation Newletter that is ONLY published in one of these formats, they are doing nothing but wasting ROM/RAM on your reader.

That leaves onlytwo formats on the Ezreader that are the useful difference from what the Sony devices offer: PRC/MOBI and LIT

LIT: Nearly abandoned except there is a HUGE amount of content from MS Reader's early attempts to digitize books. Calibre has level this playing field entirely, if the Ezreader can read it, the Sony owner is about 12 seconds behind in converting, loading and reading the same content.

PRC/MOBI: This is where it gets interesting. Granted Ezreader can load this, but not at the same time as the ePub firmware, right? So if you claim PRC/MOBI you can't claim ePub (or vice versa). I don't think lack of PRC/MOBI is such a loss, its easily converted, the ePub format continues to be improved and PRC/MOBI use is declining (except in Kindles) since Amazon is strangling the installation base.

That actually leaves one other very popular and widespread format not covered on both machines: Sony's LRF/LRX which Ezreader doesn't have, and can't even gain access too since it isn't an easy format shift. That is quite a deficit for the ezreader that there is so much LRF formatted content available that the Ezreader can't get to at all. And all the other major/popular formats not directly available on the Sony are an easy format shift (THANK YOU CALIBRE!).

You mention one future format that is your favorite and we'll just have to disagree there: eReader, the Palm Data Base format that is very long in the tooth with no growth potential. I was anxiously awaiting B&Ns re-opeing of their ebook store and SO disappointed that they elected to remain in the 1980s.

I don't own either device, Sony or Ezreader, but having carefully studied the specs I can say I'd accept an Ezreader as a gift, but if I'm spending MY money, it'll be the Sony over the Ezreader every time.

Now before we start a flamin', I sense you truly enjoy your device, and so what else matters? If you feel justified in your purchase, and have a pleasant consumer experience, I'm proud for you and I'm glad you and other are willing to live a little more on the edge with electronics by purchasing from lesser known but agressively growing electronics manufacturers and systems integrators. That helps me by forcing the big and well known names in the industry to continue pushing their capabilities and decreasing their price point. You help me by liking your device, so I like that you enjoy your Ezreader. But I'm willing to pay the premium for a rock solid consumer experience from a polished product delivered from one of the 800 lb gorillas in the field. And that's why they make Ezreader Yugos and Sony Camrys.

From Sony's website about supported formats: Micrsoft® Word, (Conversion to the Reader requires Word installed on your PC) . That would cover .doc and/or docx.

Does this mean that the V3 and clones are all using the same buggy ADE code?

I don't think "buggy" is the right word to use. Is the fact that the Jinke devices don't support hyperlinks any more of a "bug" than the fact that the Sony doesn't support full justification is?

Yes, all the Jinke devices currently have this limitation.

... and that's why they make Ezreader Yugos and Sony Camrys.

Them's fightin' words.

I can believe Sony makes good readers, and I believe that many of you are satisfied with them. For me, I don't have a lot of trust or belief in Sony as a company. It's possible that they've got their mojo back with their ereader, but I definitely don't see them as an 800 pound gorilla in regard to many (most?) of their other products any more.

Head-to-head the EZ-reader competed with the 505, and now that its been replaced with the 600 and the Daily Edition, I don't think there is a direct comparison until the next-gen EZ-reader 6 inch arrives in October or so.

However, the 5-inch models are ready for comparison, and here I have a hard time agreeing to your Yugo/Camry comparison. The Sony is clearly stripped down, and the EZ Reader's spec's are superior. Now I admit that the question of quality is still open. Not because I've heard anything negative about the V3, but just because we don't know enough about it yet.

I'm not ready to award any great accolades to the PocketPro yet -- although I did think it was a safe enough risk to pre-order one. However, the bottom line is that I'm far from convinced that the Yugo in this contest isn't the Sony.

WOL, CHM, FB2: Can you even FIND a eBook in this format? Not one of the top ten eBook merchants carry this format, so unless you subscribe to some George Noory Double Secret Probation Newletter that is ONLY published in one of these formats, they are doing nothing but wasting ROM/RAM on your reader.
I can find lots, and lots of books in fb2 format. Fb2 is very popular in certain parts of the world. Fb2 is very interesting e-book format because:
The FictionBook format does not specify the representation of a document, describing its structure instead. For example, there are special tags for epigraphs, verses and quotations. All the ebook metadata, such as the author name, title, and publish information, is also present in the ebook file. Hence, the format is convenient for automatic processing, indexing, and ebook collections management. Moreover, it allows automatic conversion into other formats.

------------Edit--------------
Check this Hanlin V5 review from the other thread:
I discovered, however, that fb2 files have a settings sub-menu (which doesn't appear to exist for any other file formats) where you can set default font face, font size (not zoom), spacing between the lines and a few other things. I wish V5 had these options for other file formats ...
------------End of Edit -------------


Chm is even more interesting. It is true, you do not find fiction books in chm format, but there are huge amounts of computer literature, reference manuals and other interesting materials in chm format.

Wolf format is proprietary format used by early reading devices made by Jinke, so it is very important for compatibility with libraries some loyal Jinke customers accumulated over the years.

FB2 is very popular for Russian books, and Wolf for Chinese books. Do bear in mind that eBooks exist outside the English-speaking world!

The EZ-Reader will read the following file formats:
ADE (Adobe Digital Edition), PDF, TXT, PDB, DOC, HTML, FB2, LIT, MP3, EPUB, PRC, WOL, CHM, PPT, TIF, PNG,GIF, RAR, ZIP, DJVU, JPG, BMP, with future support for Ereader DRM which is my preferred format (the only other reader that is available and says they will support Ereader DRM is Eslick).

...
And RTF?

And RTF?
DOC files up to version 6.0 Microsoft Office were in fact just rtf files. So if you rename rtf file to .doc, any application that claims doc support will accept it.

However, the 5-inch models are ready for comparison, and here I have a hard time agreeing to your Yugo/Camry comparison. The Sony is clearly stripped down, and the EZ Reader's spec's are superior. Now I admit that the question of quality is still open.

To keep with the car analogy. Many years ago I was shopping for a new car. We were at a car dealer that sold Mazdas and Hundais. We had a target price in mind, and for the same price the Hundai Elantra was loaded, power everything. So, we bought the Elantra. Well, this was the first year for this car, and I have to say it was a POS.

Sure, it had power windows, A/C, and cassette tape in the stereo, etc. But, it basically fell apart within 3 years. It was no where near as well built and dependable as the Mazda 323 I had just sold with 100k miles on it, zero service needs but PM and 1 set of new brake pads.

Now, I'm not saying the EZ Reader is a POS. But, I am saying that just because a device ticks alot of feature boxes doesn't mean it is a better device or a better buy.

But, as you say, the "quality" issue is very important.

BOb

First off, the EZ reader is not a 'new' device. It's simply a Hanlin v3, rebranded by an American distributor. The Hanlin v3 has been around since 2007, and they've produced more versions for years before. It's a solid device with years of development and service.

If you are simply referring to the Pocket Pro (v5), then yes, it is new, but so is the Sony 300.

To keep with the car analogy. Many years ago I was shopping for a new car. We were at a car dealer that sold Mazdas and Hundais. We had a target price in mind, and for the same price the Hundai Elantra was loaded, power everything. So, we bought the Elantra. Well, this was the first year for this car, and I have to say it was a POS.

Sure, it had power windows, A/C, and cassette tape in the stereo, etc. But, it basically fell apart within 3 years. It was no where near as well built and dependable as the Mazda 323 I had just sold with 100k miles on it, zero service needs but PM and 1 set of new brake pads.

Now, I'm not saying the EZ Reader is a POS. But, I am saying that just because a device ticks alot of feature boxes doesn't mean it is a better device or a better buy.

But, as you say, the "quality" issue is very important.

BOb

And that is why we will have to wait and see on the quality issue. However, on the software side, I am pleased that Hanlin has already released one small update (unlike most of the other players who sit on their, uh whatever). Furthermore, Hanlin isn't totally new at this game, as Griffonwing has stated.

However, the original comparison was to a Yugo and that is a comparison that I don't think works. Only time will tell if its more similar to your Elantra with features, but less reliability, or if it is more like a Lexus.

However, the original comparison was to a Yugo and that is a comparison that I don't think works. Only time will tell if its more similar to your Elantra with features, but less reliability, or if it is more like a Lexus.

I raised the point about build quality last week. The term I used was "junky". I for one am unwilling to spend two hundred dollars for anything whose build quality is junky.

Robert responded by saying that the proof of Jinke's build quality is that Fry's receives fewer returns of the EZReader than its competitors.

That fact doesn't prove anything about the Pocket Pro before it has been released, but I do think that it makes pking's reference to the Yugo uncalled for.

Also, take a look at the design of the device.

The design of the EZR and PEZ are not modern, nor attractive in the modern sense. (As a matter of fact, I would love to be able to put the PEZ inside the case-design of the 505.) As for the Astak devices, they are practical, and have put much of the R&D into the inner workings and build quality, which accounts for such low returns from fry's and high sales in China and Europe.

Take a look at the Kindle. or the Opus. Or even the new one by iRiver. It looks like they spent so much time prettying up the outside. How much thought did they put into what really counts? It's like all of the people that would rather spend tens of thousands of dollars on a shiny new automobile than spend a few thousand on an older model that will far outlast the new one.

I have a 2000 Cavalier that I have had since 2001. Bought used. My next vehicle will probably be a late 60s model Ford, Volvo or Mercedes. Much cheaper to buy and repair.

I understand format-shift is quite easy, and what I like about the PEZ is that it supports so many. Sure, some formats could be better supported, but look how often Astak and Hanlin release firmware updates. It seems they are constantly updating and fixing things, and to me, that is a great sign that requests are being listened to and implemented.

Take a look at the Kindle. or the Opus. Or even the new one by iRiver. It looks like they spent so much time prettying up the outside. How much thought did they put into what really counts? It's like all of the people that would rather spend tens of thousands of dollars on a shiny new automobile than spend a few thousand on an older model that will far outlast the new one.

You're funny. When the Kindle 1 came out... most people complained that it was, and I quote "fugly"... but most people admitted it was very functional. So, they put alot of thought it what really counted.

But, as you say, MANY complained about the looks, so they redesigned it, making it slimmer and curvy.... MANY now say it looks pretty... but to make it so thin they dropped the SD card and user replaceable battery features.

So, while I think you are wrong when you say that thought didn't go into the features that "count". However, you are right when you say that most of the complaints about the K1 were superficial and not functional.

BOb

While I agree with you in regard to the Opus and the Kindle, this does not apply to the sony 300 which is both well designed and pleasing to look at and to hold while maintaining a high build quality. I feel much safer with the inherently fragile EInk screen encased in sturdy metal than I do with it encased in plastic. Having used the 300 for a few days now, I am also quite pleased with the firmware which has yet to force me to press the reset button and sports a very user friendly interface. I like the collections feature especially, because it allows you to sort your books into multiple categories, which is difficult to do with a file folder set up without having multiple copies of a particular book. TTS and a faster processor might be nice, but frankly I'm not missing it. I don't use the SD card reader in my 700, so I'm not missing it in the 300 either.

The Pocket Pro supports many formats, but most of them are for DRM-free (i.e. without encryption) ebooks only. There are exceptions, but most ebooks you buy from on-line stores come with DRM. The Pocket Pro currently supports Adobe DRM, which is Adobe PDF ebooks and Adobe ePub ebooks. It will probably later on (but not yet) also support eReader DRM, which is what the Barnes & Noble ebook store uses.

The Sony ebook store has announced that they are switching all their ebooks to Adobe ePub by the end of the year. So this will be a good source of ebooks for the Pocket Pro eventually, but currently they use the Sony-only LRX format.

With the exception of LRX (and TOPAZ for the Kindle), all the other popular ebook DRM schemes can be circumvented. So you can buy MOBI or LIT or eReader ebooks and read them on the Pocket Pro by stripping their DRM (and perhaps format shifting the DRM-free ebook using Calibre). Note that Adobe DRM has also beeen circumvented, so you are not locking yourself into Adobe-ready devices by buying Adobe ebooks. It will probably never be tested in court, but stripping DRM from ebooks for personal non-commercial use is likely legal in the US.

The Kindle's AZW format is MOBI, but you can't buy a Kindle ebook without either a Kindle or a iPhone/iPod Touch. A small faction of Kindle ebooks are in the TOPAZ format, which can't be read by non-Amazon devices at all.

The Pocket PRO does have 14-20 formats on it. Yes, most are non-DRM, but that is consistent with any eBook Reader. Name one that has two DRM formats on it! The vast majority of eBooks on the market ARE non-DRM and Astak is approved for the Google 1 Million free eBook library! In addition to this, our website ( www.theEZreader.com ) lists sites that have huge quantities of free non-DRM eBooks.

The Pocket PRO does have Adobe Digital Editions on it. You can buy the latest DRM titles from Sony or two great sources of ADE DRM books are Books on Board and Powell's Books. Both specialize in the ADE format and both tell me they are adding 3,000 ADE titles a month to their lists.

Yes, we still are close to adding a second DRM format: Fictionwise eReader. That is being ported now and B&N is trying to approve a contract (they are the hold-up at this moment).

I have worked in manufacturing and to be honest a well designed plastic case will with stand drops and accidents better than a light metal case. And I can happily say that the EzReader plastic case is very well designed and it does with stand accidents.

Chuck

I can see where you're coming from with functionality. I agree that a keyboard is very functional in regards of user-search queries and possibly dictionary support. However, I think a sliding keyboard would be more practical, so you can put it away when you don't need it.

Also, I suppose my main issue with the 3 I mentioned are the glossy coverings. Readers are meant to be carried, handled, used outside, inside, etc.. The glossy white shell is very prone to visible scratches and fingerprint smudges, and any crack that may happen, you are not going to hide it. User Abuse is one item that should be on all manufacturers agendas.

But "shiny" sells. That's one thing that differentiates Mac from PC. Every Mac I have seen is white eggshell glossy and no amount of buffing and polishing can bring it back to out-of-box look. And this is for a Mac Mini that isn't really designed to be constantly handled, but simply moved around form one place to the next, perhaps 3-4 times a day max. For a reader that is held and constantly fiddled with every minute for a couple hours at a time average? It boggles my mind. Then again, this is only personal preference.

The 505 design, excellent. I like the row of buttons along the right side. The iPod-like circle and surrounding buttons, again nice. Never messed with one too intricately, so I'm not sure why they put a circle button on the left side. I would have mirrored the L/R buttons on the right, on the left, and possibly put another L/R button set in the center, right under the screen, so you could change pages with either hand, from either side or form the bottom, and put the 2 tiny circle buttons on either side of the 2 middle L/R. Then you could shorten the chassis, because that is a lot of extra space. Or more room to hold the device without hitting the buttons.

But there is hardly going to be one design that suits everyone needs. The Kindle and 505, Opus and iLiad, Jetbook and EZ Reader each has fans and detractors. It's never a win/win for everyone :D

Also, I suppose my main issue with the 3 I mentioned are the glossy coverings. Readers are meant to be carried, handled, used outside, inside, etc.. The glossy white shell is very prone to visible scratches and fingerprint smudges, and any crack that may happen, you are not going to hide it. User Abuse is one item that should be on all manufacturers agendas.


Can't speak for the K1, but the K2 and Opus housings are not glossy.

To keep with the car analogy. Many years ago I was shopping for a new car. We were at a car dealer that sold Mazdas and Hundais. We had a target price in mind, and for the same price the Hundai Elantra was loaded, power everything. So, we bought the Elantra. Well, this was the first year for this car, and I have to say it was a POS.

Sure, it had power windows, A/C, and cassette tape in the stereo, etc. But, it basically fell apart within 3 years. It was no where near as well built and dependable as the Mazda 323 I had just sold with 100k miles on it, zero service needs but PM and 1 set of new brake pads.

Now, I'm not saying the EZ Reader is a POS. But, I am saying that just because a device ticks alot of feature boxes doesn't mean it is a better device or a better buy.

But, as you say, the "quality" issue is very important.

BOb


I keep hearing this "quality" issue come up! The first EZ Reader Basic sibling was the number 1 selling model in Europe in 2008. The EZ Reader Basic device had the lowest incidence of returns at FRY's Electronics. The device is built by a factory that manufactures more eBook Reader devices than Amazon and Sony combined!

Agreed, features do not make a quality device. BUT... it does show, I think, a great engineering team (180 engineers at last count) with 10 years of eBook Reader manufacturing experience.

Astak sells devices that are well-proven all over the world. Where is there any doubt here that the quality will not match (and possibly exceed) any other device? You are grasping at straws to try to defame a device with a heritage of quality.

It is pure muck-raking and non-professional!

I am going to say something hear that I know is going to get a lot of you screaming but here goes. There seems to be a concept that the AD types keep hammering home that you do not have anything unless it is so and so Brand or you are not with it unless you have so and so brand. I have found it over my 50 plus years working and consuming products that the Brand names in most cases never last any longer and in a lot of case will not last at all. And in most cases you are paying as much for the name as you are for what the product is. When I was raising my kids I would always have the disagreements with them about the fact that they could not be caught death with anything but this or that brand of this or that. No that they have their own kids I have to rub it in when I hear them give their kids the same speach that I gave them.
Now I do believe that you get what you pay for but I choose not to pay for a name. I want a product that works and does what I need it for or at least what I believed that I needed it for when I got it. And I am always happy when it does more than I asked for and even happier when I find out that it can be improved to do even more with out more money put into it. For that reason I am extremely happy with my Ezreader. I does with I believed it would and I am finding as the firmware is improved that it does even more that Astak really listens and are willing to make it better.

Just my two cents.

Chuck

Chuck, my feeling has been that the brand names present the standard. Not the gold standard, but just the standard by which all else is compared. So if a minor company wants to compete, it should be obvious why its product is better than the name brand standard.

Oftentimes it is obvious. Otherwise, no one would buy the off-brand.

I see many markets to be made up of two types of customers - those who are lazy and will make the easy choice, and those who prefer to do their homework and make an intelligent decision. Nowadays in the US, the off-brands appeal to the latter type of customer.

Can't speak for the K1, but the K2 and Opus housings are not glossy.

Odd. The images that I have seen of them they look glossy.

Perhaps it was simply reflected light, or maybe some were renders.. I dunno. It may even be that the rounded corners plus eggshell gave an illusion of glossyness.

When I was shopping for a ereader. I spend almost 3 months reading everything I could find about ereaders and comparing it to what I was expecting out of the one that I hoped to get. the big thing that I noticed about the Hanlin clones with the flexablity of the firmware and the formats that it could read. I learned a long time ago I do not have a price in mind when I go shopping I have a list of what I am looking for then when I have serveral items in my list tht me my requirements I will start looking at what others have to say about their experiences with the items. Then I will finally see which ones can be gotten either in my area or from the internet the easiest. I normally like putting my hands on the item before buying.

chuck

It is pure muck-raking and non-professional!

I think perhaps you should re-read the posts in question before you get your panties in a bunch there Robert.

BOb

Also, I suppose my main issue with the 3 I mentioned are the glossy coverings. Readers are meant to be carried, handled, used outside, inside, etc.. The glossy white shell is very prone to visible scratches and fingerprint smudges, and any crack that may happen, you are not going to hide it. User Abuse is one item that should be on all manufacturers agendas.


The Opus does not have a "glossy covering"; it is a matt finish.

Take a look at the Kindle. or the Opus. Or even the new one by iRiver. It looks like they spent so much time prettying up the outside. How much thought did they put into what really counts?

Could you elaborate on this, please? What do you believe the shortcomings of the Opus to be? Just curious why you're so "down" on it. Have you used one?

The Opus does not have a "glossy covering"; it is a matt finish.

Yes Harry, that was mentioned after my comment, which was posted hours before yours. As I said, from the pictures it LOOKS glossy.

Could you elaborate on this, please? What do you believe the shortcomings of the Opus to be? Just curious why you're so "down" on it. Have you used one?

And as I also mentioned, this is a personal preference based on looks and case-design, not on internal functions or support.

I do not like the rounded mac-type approach to current devices. Make it look pretty and regardless of how it works, people will buy.

I don't even know why you posted these two comments, except to be snarky. Both of these were already commented on and replied to hours before you jumped in. Do you like being over-critical of other people's opinions?

I can respect you for your opinions, and I question neither your expertise nor your skills or knowledge. The least you can do is have respect and consideration for mine, and others', opinions.

The Pocket PRO does have 14-20 formats on it. Yes, most are non-DRM, but that is consistent with any eBook Reader. Name one that has two DRM formats on it!
The Sony PRS-300!!! (and if I use my marketing skills, it has three). :)

...
The Pocket PRO does have Adobe Digital Editions on it. You can buy the latest DRM titles from Sony ...

Is Sony currently selling DRM'd EPub, I thought it wasn't happening until the end of the year?

I don't even know why you posted these two comments, except to be snarky.

Simply that you seemed to be saying that, because you didn't like the case design, you thought that they hadn't put much work into the machine's functionality. That, at least, is how I interpreted your comment that:

It looks like they spent so much time prettying up the outside. How much thought did they put into what really counts?

If I've misunderstood you, perhaps you could clarify what your meaning actually was?

Ahh, I see. Then I apologize for the snarky comment :D

Speaking from personal opinion, as always, what counts to me is always the workings of the device first. I understand the outer shell is what people see first, and frankly, the Kindle, Opus and the new iRiver shells keep me away so that I do not even want to touch them. Not just the glaringly white (glossy or matte), but the sleek, frosted, rounded, futuristic looks. It's a huge turn-off to me personally.

That aside, the kindle's keyboard, in my opinion, should be smaller, no larger than, say, a blackberry keyboard. After all, you're not really going to use it for long perions, as the device isn't made to write a book, but to simply read, and occasionally look up a word. The keyboard could be smaller, and even hidden behind a slideout. Shrinking the keyboard down greatly would have made it more appealing, and as such, I might have given it more consideration.

Then again, locking you into buying books from only Amazon was a huge barrier that I found, and still find, insurmountable.

SO, I suppose putting that much R&D into a Concept Car design that is all "oooh and ahhh" puts into my mind that they are more worried about looks than they are function, and to me, that is not a company that puts their customers above their profit margins.

I hope this more-clarified. I crawled out of bed an hour ago and have not had any caffeine yet.

Thanks. I entirely agree with you that function is what's important. Heck, the CyBook Gen3 is a very ugly machine, but it still works damned well.

By the way - in the photos on the Bookeen site the Opus looks "glarey white", as you comment. It's actually not; it's a rather subdued cream colour.

Ahh, the old "let's make the picture look pretty" ploy. I'd much rather see exactly what I'm getting. If someone wanted a glossy white to match their Apple Mac, they'd have been upset.

Also, about the new iRiver Story. Is there a pic where you can actually SEE the device? I saw one image that showed the top edge connectors (i thought it was a mac laptop) and another with this top angle where you could barely make anything out. I've seen no full-frontal shots at all.

Also, about the new iRiver Story. Is there a pic where you can actually SEE the device? I saw one image that showed the top edge connectors (i thought it was a mac laptop) and another with this top angle where you could barely make anything out. I've seen no full-frontal shots at all.

There's a photo in the first post in this thread...
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55224

Looks Kindleish to me.

Ahh yes, I was meaning a good professional shot of just the device. Also, the pic on the front is quite small. Were it a larger pic, it might suffice.

You'd think if they were going to announce the device, they'd have a good large pic of the front of the device for everyone to see.

I don't think "buggy" is the right word to use. Is the fact that the Jinke devices don't support hyperlinks any more of a "bug" than the fact that the Sony doesn't support full justification is?

Yes, all the Jinke devices currently have this limitation.
Sony's not having full justification for ADE is not a bug. It's due to Sony not using current ADE code. Lacking hyperlinks is definitely a bug.

Also, take a look at the design of the device.

The design of the EZR and PEZ are not modern, nor attractive in the modern sense. (As a matter of fact, I would love to be able to put the PEZ inside the case-design of the 505.) As for the Astak devices, they are practical, and have put much of the R&D into the inner workings and build quality, which accounts for such low returns from fry's and high sales in China and Europe.
How is Astak putting much R&D into the inner workings? It's just a rebranded V3 or V5. The inner workings come from Jinke.

Sony's not having full justification for ADE is not a bug. It's due to Sony not using current ADE code. Lacking hyperlinks is definitely a bug.

With respect, Jon, unless you know for a fact that Jinke intended to implement hyperlink support, and the code to do so doesn't work, you cannot claim that this is a "bug". There are lots of file formats which support hyperlinks, but for which a specific implementation of the reading application does not implement them. To name but one of many examples, the Sony Reader does not support hyperlinks in RTF files, and yet the format supports them. Is that a "bug"? Is the fact that the Kindle DX doesn't support hyperlinks in PDF files a "bug"? I could give you a dozen more examples. You may consider these to be "undesirable", but that does not make them "bugs".

How is Astak putting much R&D into the inner workings? It's just a rebranded V3 or V5. The inner workings come from Jinke.

Thank you again, Capt. Obvious. :D

The device is made Jinke, not Astak. Astak just rebranded it. You are correct on this.

When talking about the Astak device, in terms of hardware, format support, etc...it should be apparent to anyone that I am referring to the manufacturer, not the distributor.

And RTF?

Yes, RTF is supported and native doc files as well.

Dale

[QUOTE=HarryT;579926]With respect, Jon, unless you know for a fact that Jinke intended to implement hyperlink support, and the code to do so doesn't work, you cannot claim that this is a "bug". There are lots of file formats which support hyperlinks, but for which a specific implementation of the reading application does not implement them.[QUOTE]

I suppose it depend on what the ePub specification says. Must a conformant implementation support hyper links or full justification?

The Sony PRS-300!!! (and if I use my marketing skills, it has three). :)


Is Sony currently selling DRM'd EPub, I thought it wasn't happening until the end of the year?

Actually it has 2, LRX and ADE although ADE supports two formats there is only one DRM. I believe Sony is rolling out DRM'd ePUB and that all eBooks will be in this format by the end of the year but I don't know when the first will begin to appear. I suspect they won't wait and then switch them all at once.

Dale

Hey anybody knows if the PP can read non-DRM pdf and ePub? Also, what's the difference in reading pdf formatted ebooks on Adobe Reader and ADE? Thanks

Hey anybody knows if the PP can read non-DRM pdf and ePub? Also, what's the difference in reading pdf formatted ebooks on Adobe Reader and ADE? Yes, it reads DRM-free PDF and ePub. On the EZ Reader's, mobile Adobe Digital Editions shows PDFs full page in portrait mode and full page across (margins trimmed?) in landscape mode. In addition is has 4 zoom levels, which are actually "reflow" rather than a conventional zoom. The text is extracted and shown in one of 4 font sizes. Images within the PDF are also still displayed, but images can prevent the reflow from working and if the PDF is entirely images (e.g. scans of a book) then reflow isn't possible. Usually, PDFs designed as ebooks will reflow but not all PDFs work well. They are old examples from a PRS-505, but see Full size .pdfs - screenshots and/or best option available now? (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221438&postcount=9). Reflow works the same way on the EZ Readers as on the PRS-505 (except with 5 zoom levels instead of 3).

On the Pocket Pro for DRM-free PDFs only, you can also use XPDF instread of ADE. This shows full page portait, full page margins trimmed, and landscape margins trimmed.

But there is hardly going to be one design that suits everyone needs. The Kindle and 505, Opus and iLiad, Jetbook and EZ Reader each has fans and detractors. It's never a win/win for everyone :D

This should be stickied to the top of every page.

After reading this entire thread I'm still not sure whether the Pocket Pro supports non-DRM mobipocket...

After reading this entire thread I'm still not sure whether the Pocket Pro supports non-DRM mobipocket... Yes it does.

Yes it does.

So basicly it supports all mobipocket formated books, since you can deDRM those if you have the ability to do so.

Yes it does.

Thanks!

(and Slite, that's what I'm thinking too!)

So basicly it supports all mobipocket formated books, since you can deDRM those if you have the ability to do so.

It does not support those deDRM formats for any format but they will work. Support is a different thing.

It does not support those deDRM formats for any format but they will work. Support is a different thing.

That makes my head spin!

:D

It does not support those deDRM formats for any format but they will work. Support is a different thing.

One persons support is anothers open, or anothers read, or anothers use.

Since my EZ-Reader supports 14 or so formats, can I claim them as dependents?:chinscratch:

One persons support is anothers open, or anothers read, or anothers use.

Since my EZ-Reader supports 14 or so formats, can I claim them as dependents?:chinscratch:


Wow, never realized the tax advantages....I think I'll keep her.

:D