Hi all, I'm new here. :help:

Unfortunately since no ebook reader seems to be available for sale (physically) in the Emirates, I'm taking the opportunity of deciding what to buy here in Switzerland.

The Iliad, Cybook Gen3 and Sony PRS-505. The Iliad is out of the question, despite the fact that it seems cheaper than it was 2 years back when I was last here. (I did not buy it at the time, way too expensive.) And it still is expensive today.

The only stuff left is the Cybook Gen3 and the Sony PRS-505.

The Sony is the cheapest, EPUB, PDF & TXT support (Vital for me, I read Arabic texts on PDF). Major downside though: the PRS-505 is only available in German, no English no French. (I should learn German if I begin to use this one.) Price is at 380 CHF, which is reasonable I suppose.

The Cybook Gen3 is a 100 CHF more than the Sony. Has English and French support along with German. PDF & TXT, but no EPUB. (EPUB arriving on firmware in the near future?)

But what does the near future mean? I'll probably have to install the firmware. (Sometimes horrifying to me.)

I use Linux (Ubuntu, to be specific), so I understand that the Cybook Gen loads on Linux as a mass-storage device. Which is alright for me. Question: Does the Sony PRS-505 do the same?

Good typography is holy: The Cybook Gen3 openly advertises that I can add fonts of my own, TTF, does that mean its easy to support non-PDF Japanese and Chinese texts on the Cybook? (Yes, I read half a ton of languages, just not German.. Yet.)

What about the Sony, can I add fonts to the Sony, for Chinese or Japanese?

What about this firmware issue with Cybook Gen? How would I be able to install it using Linux? Or should I beg a Windows-using friend to lend me the computer to upgrade the firmware? That would be awkward.

Does the Sony have firmware issues too? Would I be able to solve them with Linux?

I know that's a lot of questions... Any input is helpful and welcomed.

I only have until the coming Friday to decide. Then I head back home to the Emirates. And I most certainly want to have an ebook reader when I head back. Any recommendations, notes, tips, comments? Anything would help. :thanks:

Yes, you can read Chinese, etc, on the CyBook simply by copying the appropriate fonts.

Upgrading the Gen3's firmware simply involves copying a file to the SD card, then rebooting the Gen3 with that SD card in it. It's totally "o/s-neutral".

If the Qur'an is among the Arabic texts you are going to read, I can recommend the Sony. I have some pdfs of several suwar and they look nice. The Sony 700 also reflows arabic pdfs well enough, at least it did so for an article from al-ahram. I do not know if the 505 shares this capacity.

Upgrading the Gen3's firmware simply involves copying a file to the SD card, then rebooting the Gen3 with that SD card in it. It's totally "o/s-neutral".

So the Gen3 seems more userfriendly to the person who takes the time to work it out, hey? :) Seems encouraging to me.

I have some pdfs of several suwar and they look nice.

I'm not worried about getting my hands on Arabic books, including beautifully typeset ones, or even handwritten manuscript scans. You can get a lot out of Wikicommons (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Qur%27anic_text) and Al-Mostafa.com (http://www.al-mostafa.com/) (The second one is actually a non-profit book scanning project, or so it seems, regardless, it's a godsend for me, since I'm a heavy reader of rare and old books.

Ooh, another question, considering that a lot of Arabic PDF files are insanely huge: Would the Gen3 or PRS-505 survive displaying large PDF files? Large being between 10 and 50 MB. Some of the scans, especially the big book scans tend to be quite heavy in size.

File size isn't a problem. I regularly use an 80MB PDF on my Gen3 (a scanned Latin grammar book, in case you were wondering).

Be warned, though; PDFs which are scanned images (rather than text) will display very poorly on a 6" screen if the original page is significantly larger than that. The CyBook has a "pan and scan" mode which allow you to "zoom in" and "scroll around" the page. I'm not sure how the Sony handles it.

So the Gen3 seems more userfriendly to the person who takes the time to work it out, hey? :) Seems encouraging to me.

From what I've heard, unlike the PRS-505, the Cybook Gen3 does not support links inside PDF files. This may be a big negative for you, if much of your reading consists of PDFs.

Also, regarding the PRS-505 being in German, you should have no problems reflashing it with PRSCustomizer into English or French.

- Ahi

That's correct - no hyperlinks in PDFs. However, Mobi Creator generally does a good job of converting text PDFs to Mobi, and that does get you working hyperlinks. Image-scan PDFs generally don't have hyperlinks to begin with.

That's correct - no hyperlinks in PDFs. However, Mobi Creator generally does a good job of converting text PDFs to Mobi, and that does get you working hyperlinks. Image-scan PDFs generally don't have hyperlinks to begin with.

Generally don't, but not for technical reasons. Acrobat does allow you to specify links in image-based documents. So it is not impossible for a scanned book to still have linked table of contents or even other linking.

I suppose the question is whether such things are done in scanned Arabic PDFs.

- Ahi

File size isn't a problem. I regularly use an 80MB PDF on my Gen3 (a scanned Latin grammar book, in case you were wondering).

Be warned, though; PDFs which are scanned images (rather than text) will display very poorly on a 6" screen if the original page is significantly larger than that. The CyBook has a "pan and scan" mode which allow you to "zoom in" and "scroll around" the page. I'm not sure how the Sony handles it.

oooh! Latin, huh? and a grammar book, huh? I recently found a book that details classical Arabic grammar in poetry form, instead of prose with examples. Absolutely interesting.

If I can zoom in then I'm fine, I tend to have to zoom in even when reading them on the desktop, particularly if they are handwritten manuscripts. (The amount of different calligraphic styles in Arabic do make scanning in vital and important, at least for me.)

From what I've heard, unlike the PRS-505, the Cybook Gen3 does not support links inside PDF files. This may be a big negative for you, if much of your reading consists of PDFs.

I suppose the question is whether such things are done in scanned Arabic PDFs.

Links isn't much of an issue for me, particularly since most of the stuff I read is old text (hundreds of years pre-internet) anyway. The only time I tend to encounter links on the PDFs is if I get one of those Wikipedia Books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Books), which is overrun with links back to the various articles cited in the Wikipedia.

:thanks: So far the Gen3 is very encouraging. Just need to shell out the extra 100 CHF. (I wonder if there are any serious objections?) :smash:

:offtopic: By the way, I've heard of an upcoming SONY Reader, which apparently targets the Kindle directly. (So perfectly glad the Kindle isn't available in the Emirates, last thing we need is serious DRM problems! Or monopolizers on ebooks, for that matter.)

Ooh, another question, considering that a lot of Arabic PDF files are insanely huge: Would the Gen3 or PRS-505 survive displaying large PDF files? Large being between 10 and 50 MB. Some of the scans, especially the big book scans tend to be quite heavy in size.

The Sony PRS-505 manages ok. (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53153)

Albeit, as Harry said, scanned PDFs are in a different category from text-based PDFs. Chances are your image-based PDFs will not be too snappy on page-turns.

I highly recommend you consider putting your scanned books through manga2pdf (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12790&highlight=manga2pdf) so the images are quality-optimized for the Sony PRS-505 and your page load times are minimized. Keep the higher quality originals though... because you won't have a limited 3rd generation eBook reader forever.

- Ahi

So far the Gen3 is very encouraging. Just need to shell out the extra 100 CHF. (I wonder if there are any serious objections?)

The pan-and-zoom I suspect is what the PRS-505 can't compete with.... though I'll double-check when I get home today, and let you know.

The best way to read larger stuff on the Sony Reader is to read it landscape, with half the page showing at any given time (top half or bottom half). Meaning you can view approximately 12 cm x 16 cm pages at 100% (depending on which half of the page is showing, the top or the bottom 0.5 or 1 cm of the page is shaded to show that it is an area of overlap that will show more clearly on the other half of the current page).

Oh!!!

One more thing. Cybook Gen3 has 4 gray levels, whereas the Sony Reader has 8. Might this leave you with contrast issues? Are the scanned PDFs 2 colour black-and-white PDFs, or are they colour or grayscale ones? If the latter, you might benefit from (or downright need) the additional gray level's ability to enhance sharpness/contrast (and reducing the need for dithering).

- Ahi

The Sony PRS-505 manages ok.

That's a gigantic piece of text you got there. 53,432 is wow.

highly recommend you consider putting your scanned books through manga2pdf so the images are quality-optimized for the Sony PRS-505 and your page load times are minimized. Keep the higher quality originals though... because you won't have a limited 3rd generation eBook reader forever.

Hmm, that seems like an interesting idea. :thanks:

:offtopic: Ahi, your signature. Clearly, its neither Korean or Japanese, since it's a transliteration of the Cyrillic (with a Maltese ћ?), or is it.. An artificial language? It's cool nonetheless, I read it in all three, couldn't "identify" the language. .... Are you into language making? I got into it for a while, but grew out when I got to uni, might restart. Great hobby.

Back to the topic:

Are the scanned PDFs 2 colour black-and-white PDFs, or are they colour or grayscale ones? If the latter, you might benefit from (or downright need) the additional gray level's ability to enhance sharpness/contrast (and reducing the need for dithering).


Some are pure B&W, but others are a bit colorish, but that tends to be just the faded yellowing paper color of the old manuscript papers.

read it landscape

I wonder if the Gen3 does the landscape, right?

Keep me posted, I'm fascinated.

That's a gigantic piece of text you got there. 53,432 is wow.

He he. ;) Yeah...

Not sure what it would be practical for, other than perhaps wikipedia excerptions... which was vaguely the original topic that lead me down the road of inquiry.

As alluded in the post though, the complete Summa Theologica by St. Thomas Aquinas is in fact just under 10,500 pages and actually works without any obvious handicap.

(In all instances, the pages are 9cm x 12cm pages... not any sort of real world book or A4 size pages.)

:offtopic: Ahi, your signature. Clearly, its neither Korean or Japanese, since it's a transliteration of the Cyrillic (with a Maltese ћ?), or is it.. An artificial language? It's cool nonetheless, I read it in all three, couldn't "identify" the language. .... Are you into language making? I got into it for a while, but grew out when I got to uni, might restart. Great hobby.

Not a Maltese H, but rather a cyrillic "tshe" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%8B).

And while the Korean and Japanese can legitimately be seen as the transliteration of the Cyrillic, it would be more correct to consider all three transliterations. (Albeit the Cyrillic is perfect, while the Japanese and Korean are merely approximating ones.)

Without further ado: The text is Hungarian.

"Atyáid emléke mindörökké éljen benned,
s légy mécsese a jövendõ nemzedékeknek."

I am content to translate it to English as:

"Let the memory of your forefathers in your heart forever stay,
Because for the coming generations, you must light the way."

It is my family motto.

Way back when I too dabbled in conlanging, and also had to leave it behind. When my all too grown-up responsibilities nowadays permit me, I actually work on a massive alt-history/future-history world whose primary focus is only marginally languages, and primarily that of culture, sociology, politics, and theology.

Some are pure B&W, but others are a bit colorish, but that tends to be just the faded yellowing paper color of the old manuscript papers.

Depending on how adept you are with various tools, and how much time you have to spend on such things, you might benefit from reducing these to black-and-white yourself. The yellowing of the page is something that can be fairly successfully filtered out, I found in the past... and as long as the pages are reasonably consistent looking, once you find the right setting it can be fairly safely applied to all page images.

I recommend you look into ImageMagick and unpaper (in addition to the more obvious tools like Photoshop or GIMP) if you are interested.

I wonder if the Gen3 does the landscape, right?

Keep me posted, I'm fascinated.

I'm almost certain the Cybook Gen3 can go into landscape... in fact I suspect most if not all eBook readers can.

I'll let you know about the experiments I run on my Sony later tonight... probably will be tomorrow for you, unless you stay up till all sorts of crazed hours of the night/morning.

- Ahi

To add a few facts:

1. Cybook supports various fonts in Mobi format, HTML format, and TXT format. It supports Unicode and probably Arabic texts in Mobi format, but I believe it won't support them in either HTML or PDF. At least, it doesn't support Polish letters in TXT or HTML, no matter if the font contains them, doesn't support UTF-8 or anything beyond plain ASCII in TXT, or in HTML.

2. Bookeen, makers of Cybook firmware, plan to release two versions of firmware. One will support ePub, and will either not support Mobi at all, or will support only non-DRMed Mobi. The other will have DRMed Mobi format, but not ePub. This is due to Amazon restrictions on letting device providers use Mobi format. So if you want to have ePub, you might not be able to have Mobi at the same time, and possibly might not be able to read Arabic texts.

3. Bookeen are *very* slow in realization of their promises. The version of firmware we're currently waiting for was to be released on New Year's Eye, then two weeks before the end of March they said it'll be ready for April, then sometime in May they said they'll release it "on Monday", then a month ago at a meeting in Paris they installed newest firmware, apparently fully working, on some people's Cybooks. Since then, silence. So don't rely on features-to-be.

4. Bookeen are also known to ignore support emails from many people - and other people have found them to be reacting quickly and replacing broken devices. I hope you'd belong to the latter group.

Major downside though: the PRS-505 is only available in German, no English no French.
You can flash english firmware. You might have to tinker a little bit with the version number in the included image but this is documented here.

I use Linux (Ubuntu, to be specific), so I understand that the Cybook Gen loads on Linux as a mass-storage device. Which is alright for me. Question: Does the Sony PRS-505 do the same?

Yes. It does.
You can of course use Calibre. Works great on Ubuntu.

By the way, aren't you going to wait a little bit for the new PRS-600?

You're probably better off with the Cybook, Agari!

The Sony PRS-505 does not support zooming for picture-based (i.e.: scanned) PDFs at all. Full page (or approx. twice the size of a full page in landscape mode) is what you get.

It is strange... given that with JPGs it supports the sort of zoom and pan that Cybook has.

A pity... I was testing it with lovely KJV scans too... but alas, it falls short of tolerable. Readable... but only technically--in practice, I could not force myself through it at this quality/zoom.

- Ahi

To add a few facts:

1. Cybook supports various fonts in Mobi format, HTML format, and TXT format. It supports Unicode and probably Arabic texts in Mobi format, but I believe it won't support them in either HTML or PDF. At least, it doesn't support Polish letters in TXT or HTML, no matter if the font contains them, doesn't support UTF-8 or anything beyond plain ASCII in TXT, or in HTML.


The Mobi viewer on the CyBook fully supports Unicode characters sets, but what it does not support are "right to left" languages such as Arabic. You need to use PDF for that.

Yeah, I'm not aware of any Arabic texts published on mobi format, or even epub format.. Yet. I'm sure the epub format would do a great job, if taken seriously. Most of my non-PDF texts are English and Spanish, which is alright for me.

I have access to many Arabic texts, and most of them are either TXT or PDF files, or at times DOC (bad choice haha, but easily convertible anyway)..

I think the decision's obvious to me now. Cybook Gen3 it seems.


:thanks: :thanks: :2thumbsup