1. OK - the 2 biggest complaints/deficiencies for the DX (and the K2) are lack of folders and loss of SD card storage. These problems escalated with the DX because of the added PDF support - which encouraged folks to load up their DX with personal docs and periodicals- with no way to sort/find things.

2. Some services have developed apps to put on the Kindles (Mobile Read & Feedbooks come to mind) that allow folks to directly download books onto the K without the need for a USB cable.

3. Online storage services like Sugarsync (which does have a mobile interface for phones) and DropBox would provide a means to:
a. Unlimited storage of as many docs & books as needed - 2G free, then pay for storage.
b. Ability to organize docs & books into folders!

BUT - if you try to access SugarSync via their mobile app (https://m.sugarsync.com/login), you can see your docs but cannot download them - regardless of their format, you get the Amazon error message that the Kindle does not support the download of this format. (See thread: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50095 for details). Only docs in HTML format are viewable.

SO - can someone write an app (like the Mobile Read or Feedbooks apps) that would allow one to access & download files from their online Sugarsync account onto their DX? IMHO this would address both outstanding problems for the K2 and DX. I suggest an app, rather than a hack, since most folks would be more comfortable loading an app than risk bricking their Kindle.

I'm not a programmer, so if anyone can enlighten me on why this can't happen, I would appreciate it. Better yet, anyone want to give it a shot?
I can't see how this would violate any Amazon policies - just replace the USB cable loading with Whispernet, unless the issue of charging for file size would enter in.

:thanks:

SO - can someone write an app (like the Mobile Read or Feedbooks apps) that would allow one to access & download files from their online Sugarsync account onto their DX?
There are no "apps" like for other devices you may own such as an iPhone. There is no SDK, all the work that's been done so far on the Kindle platform has been done so unofficially.

I can't see how this would violate any Amazon policies - just replace the USB cable loading with Whispernet, unless the issue of charging for file size would enter in.
You actually hit it right on the head. Amazon pays Sprint for Whispernet usage, which is the reason why they charge for per-megabyte book conversion & delivery. By using another "application" to use Whispernet you're basically putting the same cost on Amazon without paying them anything. I could see why people would be reluctant to publicly release an unofficial hack that might cause Amazon to completely lock down what access there is to the underlying OS already.

Basically don't hold your breath.

I don't think this is all that complicated. Savory (http://blog.fsck.com/2009/04/savory.html) is a K2 app for automatically converting ePub and PDF to MOBI on the K2 (see also Savory - a native ebook conversion package for the Kindle 2 (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44128)). Savory is about as complicated as a Kindle hack is likely to get, but patching the web browser sounds simple: How does Savory work?
Plain-english version

Savory installs a small program which runs on your Kindle and watches for new files in the 'Documents' directory with names ending in '.epub' and '.pdf'. When the system notifies Savory that a document has shown up, it wakes up and runs an open-source file conversion program called Calibre. Savory also updates your Kindle2's browser configuration file to tell it that the Kindle can now handle .pdf and .epub documents. I have not been following Savory (because I have a K1) but it seems to have done all the hard work required to allow the KDX (say) download PDF and ePub files and probably other filetypes too. Independent of SugarSync support, just adding PDF support to the KDX's web browser would be a major advance in functionality.

...because of the Whispernet charges and the sizes of PDFs being many times larger than other formats such as .mobi or .lit I can see why they locked out PDF download support.

...because of the Whispernet charges and the sizes of PDFs being many times larger than other formats such as .mobi or .lit I can see why they locked out PDF download support. They might have done so deliberately, but it is just as likely that they are locked out because the K2 did not download them and the browser was not updated for the KDX. The K2 does not natively support PDFs and therefore there was good reason not to download them on the K2.

Way I see this as a simple workaround is to hack Savory-like daemon (running process in the background) so it looks for files downloaded with a .mobi/.prc extension which are really pdfs, and renames them accordingly. Unless the Kindle browser is smart enough to read file headers and not just rely on file extensions & MIME data.

...if it can be hacked around, it probably will, but again, if somebody releases this, and the end result is that Amazon locks down the next version of the firmware so it's a lot harder or even nigh impossibile to install "hacks" imma be upset, and I'm sure others would be too.

Something like this application would be an incentive for Amazon to lock things down, if people all of a sudden start downloading 10-100mB pdf's without a cent being paid to them while they're paying Sprint for each mB.

To clarify what I am requesting (or dreaming of):

Currently Kindle users can load an app onto their K's from Mobile Read and from Feedbooks that allow users to access these websites and download books directly onto their K's - so that these apps must somehow tweak the Kindle web interface to allow the download of books not purchased through Amazon -- in mobi & prc formats bypassing that pesky Amazon error message denying the download. As many books as you want!

With SugarSync's mobile interface you can access your Sugarsync box via the web interface on the Kindle - but the Kindle is blocking downloads - regardless of the format.

Can one of the existing book download apps be modified for the SugarSync mobile interface to allow direct download of files to the K?

:chinscratch:

You can already downoad prc and mobi books through the native web browser if I remember correctly... I haven't heard of any app you can load onto your kindle for either website. Can you point me a link?

To clarify what I am requesting (or dreaming of):

Currently Kindle users can load an app onto their K's from Mobile Read and from Feedbooks that allow users to access these websites and download books directly onto their K's - so that these apps must somehow tweak the Kindle web interface to allow the download of books not purchased through Amazon -- in mobi & prc formats bypassing that pesky Amazon error message denying the download. As many books as you want!



The mobi guides from MobileRead and Feedbooks are not apps, they're just books with download links in them to mobi files. You could make one yourself.

BTW, I also think some version of Savory for the DX might be the way to go. I was able to download a pdf file that I hosted on my own website using Savory on my K2.

You can already downoad prc and mobi books through the native web browser if I remember correctly...

This is one of the problems I am encountering - when I go to Sugarsync via the K web browser, I can't download any books I have backed up there - of any format - just get an Amazon error message that the download is prohibited b/c it's not a supported format - even though it IS a supported format, i.e., mobi or prc or azw.

[QUOTE=daffy4u;516026]The mobi guides from MobileRead and Feedbooks are not apps, they're just books with download links in them to mobi files.
You could make one yourself.
QUOTE]

Thanks for the clarification for the nature of these guides - makes sense how they show up on the K table of contents.

Can you point me to any information, wiki, etc. on how to make a guide? I'm not a programmer but willing to give it a try.


Savory seems to be an answer for PDFs, but I would like to store my mobi & prc books sorted into folders on Sugarsync and be able to "pull one off the shelf" via the K web browser when I want to read/re-read one.

Thanks for the clarification for the nature of these guides - makes sense how they show up on the K table of contents.

Can you point me to any information, wiki, etc. on how to make a guide? I'm not a programmer but willing to give it a try.


Savory seems to be an answer for PDFs, but I would like to store my mobi & prc books sorted into folders on Sugarsync and be able to "pull one off the shelf" via the K web browser when I want to read/re-read one.

You can create a text file with links to all of your books (or an html file changed to a txt extension, or a word file run through MobiPocket Creator or... a number of ways). The problems with using Sugarsync is the log-in. You don't have to log in to MobileRead or Feedbooks to download. If you have another place to store them which doesn't require a log-in, it should work.

Since online storage services require logins, I am back to the question of whether the K web browser can be tweaked to allow downloads, or are we permanently blocked b/c

"Just so you know that the, bookmarked web pages are only for your reference and not for downloading the content."

The above was taken from a CS response in another thread for a question of why PDFs can't be downloaded.

:(

If you have a website or a friend with a website, you could create a hidden directory with books on it, that would not require a log-in.

If you have a website or a friend with a website, you could create a hidden directory with books on it, that would not require a log-in.

Cool idea - thanks! I'll start tinkering on it this weekend.
:thanks:

If you have a website or a friend with a website, you could create a hidden directory with books on it, that would not require a log-in.

You can also password protect the directory with the standard basic authentication (.htpasswd) method; the Kindle browser (at least on my K1) allows login that way. I have some of my books on a protected part of my personal website, and am able to download them to my Kindle just fine by entering the user and password I specifed for the directory.

I wouldn't personally place ebooks on a public website (hidden directory or not) without password protection, as Googlebot or other search robots will find them. A robots.txt file would help to keep well-behaved search crawlers away, but I wouldn't trust that alone to keep my books private.

You can also password protect the directory with the standard basic authentication (.htpasswd) method; the Kindle browser (at least on my K1) allows login that way. I have some of my books on a protected part of my personal website, and am able to download them to my Kindle just fine by entering the user and password I specifed for the directory.

I wouldn't personally place ebooks on a public website (hidden directory or not) without password protection, as Googlebot or other search robots will find them. A robots.txt file would help to keep well-behaved search crawlers away, but I wouldn't trust that alone to keep my books private.

I think password protecting the directory defeats what poohbear_nc is trying to do, not have to log in to download (a la MobileRead).

If the books are Kindle books, they are still encrypted for use with specific Kindles, so wouldn't that be okay?

I think password protecting the directory defeats what poohbear_nc is trying to do, not have to log in to download (a la MobileRead).

OK. I thought the issue was inability to login, not just desire to avoid. Apologies for my misinterpreting.

If the books are Kindle books, they are still encrypted for use with specific Kindles, so wouldn't that be okay?

Sometimes I forget that not everyone strips the DRM from their books for personal use.

Yes, it would keep others from reading them, but personally I wouldn't want even the file names to be available via search engines. Perhaps overly paranoid on my part.

Anyway, as Emily Littella would say, "never mind." :)

OK. I thought the issue was inability to login, not just desire to avoid. Apologies for my misinterpreting.

You may not be wrong. I was trying to make the download process seamless like the MR Mobi Guide but poohbear_nc, could go the log in route via Surgarsync or another website.

Sometimes I forget that not everyone strips the DRM from their books for personal use.

Yes, it would keep others from reading them, but personally I wouldn't want even the file names to be available via search engines. Perhaps overly paranoid on my part.

I would guess to be on the safe side, stripped versions should be kept on a hard drive or some other media and not online. The encrypted versions 9even renamed) can be in the hidden directory. They can always be re-stripped if need be.

Anyway, as Emily Littella would say, "never mind." :)

No, it's a good thing to bring up and think about. :)

I think password protecting the directory defeats what poohbear_nc is trying to do, not have to log in to download (a la MobileRead).

If the books are Kindle books, they are still encrypted for use with specific Kindles, so wouldn't that be okay?

You're right - I'm trying to avoid the password route so that I can access the files directly - like MobileRead - without a login.

With SugarSync's mobile interface you can access your Sugarsync box via the web interface on the Kindle - but the Kindle is blocking downloads - regardless of the format. I tried this on my K1, and most of the web pages come up black on black. I was still able to select one of my sugarsync PRC files for download and, like you, I got the Amazon error message that the Kindle does not support the download of this format. If I do the same operation, using the mobile interface, under FireFox the download link is of the form https://m.sugarsync.com/get/file/XXXXXX_XXX/Dickens_TaleTwoCitiesMR3.prc?v=true&owner=YYYYYYYY and the download works The problem on the Kindle may be with the "?v=..." after the .prc. The Kindle isn't recognizing this as a .prc download. So I would say that this is a problem with sugarsync, not with the Kindle.

The counter example is that it is possible to download PRCs from MobileRead, for example Altsheler, Joseph A: The Guns of Bull Run. V1. 9 July 2009 (http://www.mobileread.mobi/forums/showthread.php?t=50575) downloads successfully as: http://www.mobileread.mobi/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31920&d=1247172345 Perhaps the problem is with https (vs htpp), or perhaps mobileread is internally presenting a URL that the Kindle recognizes as a PRC file.

I tried this on my K1, and most of the web pages come up black on black. I was still able to select one of my sugarsync PRC files for download and, like you, I got the Amazon error message that the Kindle does not support the download of this format. If I do the same operation, using the mobile interface, under FireFox the download link is of the form https://m.sugarsync.com/get/file/XXXXXX_XXX/Dickens_TaleTwoCitiesMR3.prc?v=true&owner=YYYYYYYY and the download works The problem on the Kindle may be with the "?v=..." after the .prc. The Kindle isn't recognizing this as a .prc download. So I would say that this is a problem with sugarsync, not with the Kindle.

So that the K is reading the ?v=... as the file extension, which of course doesn't match any know file format. A download hack or app would have to strip (or ignore) the text starting with the question mark before the K sees it?

The counter example is that it is possible to download PRCs from MobileRead, for example Altsheler, Joseph A: The Guns of Bull Run. V1. 9 July 2009 (http://www.mobileread.mobi/forums/showthread.php?t=50575) downloads successfully as: http://www.mobileread.mobi/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=31920&d=1247172345 Perhaps the problem is with https (vs htpp), or perhaps mobileread is internally presenting a URL that the Kindle recognizes as a PRC file.

Daffy's previous post explains that Mobile Read guide is using download links to the books, recognized by the K.

Daffy's previous post explains that Mobile Read guide is using download links to the books, recognized by the K.

When you make your own download guide, the links will be simpler, so you shouldn't have a problem (I haven't tried it but it should be easy to do).

http://www.mybooks.com/hiddenbookdirectory/bookfile1.prc

Daffy's previous post explains that Mobile Read guide is using download links to the books, recognized by the K. Daffy was discussing a "download guide", i.e. a MOBI ebook with links to PRC files available over the web. I agree that the password required by sugarsync means that this option won't work.

I was talking about using the mobile web version of mobileread and simply navigating to an ebooks web page using the Kindle browser and downloading it from there. This works for PRC files (files with the extension .prc) from mobileread but not for PRC from sugarsync. Note that I had to logon to sugarsync, but there was no addition login required to download the PRC file. So something that sugarsync is doing is preventing the Kindle web browser from recognizing such files as PRC files. It might be the case that sugarsync is requiring https (i.e. encryption) for the download and that is what causing the problem. I am not sure, because there is some hidden transaction between the web server and the web browser that ends up with a download of the PRC file. That transaction is failing for the Kindle web browser (it isn't recognizing what sugarsync is delivering as a PRC file).

Thanks guys for all your input - it would seem that SugarSync won't be an option b/c of the character string attached to the end of the file (starting with the ?) - an app/hack filter would have to remove the string or mask it before giving the file to the kindle browser for download, leaving the .mobi or .prc file extension.

So the next best thing seems to be Daffy's suggestion of creating a download guide for a personal library.

If Amazon persists in NOT providing folders, modifying an online storage service to sync with Kindles might become financially attractive enough for a company to offer a Kindle archive/library feature.

Would contacting SugarSync about this (since they already have the mobile app for cell phones) to see if they're interested violate any Amazon rules, do ya think?

you do realize that if you download a 100 meg pdf it will cost amazon 12 dollars out of their pocket right? following down this path is a way to get the access and features of the kindle stripped from a huge number of the users. they already have in their license agreement the ability and rights to strip your web access anytime they want. costing them tens of thousands of dollars is a sure way to get this enacted. the only web access they guarantee is to Wikipedia. how would you like them to change the proxy so you can only access amazon sites or Wikipedia?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=kin2w_ddp?nodeId=200144530&#wireless

you do realize that if you download a 100 meg pdf it will cost amazon 12 dollars out of their pocket right? following down this path is a way to get the access and features of the kindle stripped from a huge number of the users. they already have in their license agreement the ability and rights to strip your web access anytime they want. costing them tens of thousands of dollars is a sure way to get this enacted. the only web access they guarantee is to Wikipedia. how would you like them to change the proxy so you can only access amazon sites or Wikipedia?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=kin2w_ddp?nodeId=200144530&#wireless

Thank you for this information. Rest assured I would NEVER do anything to jeopardize the existing services. Just thinking out loud among friends. That's why I post here - for input/feedback. :thanks:

I wasn't suggesting a "backdoor" approach - rather seeing if SugarSync would be interested in partnering with Amazon to develop an app similar to that which they have for mobile phones. Which would probably give Amazon yet another way to charge for downloads.

I'm guessing Amazon would rather keep kindles whispernet-only so they can control the flow of data, but I work in film and most scripts are PDFs that get pretty large (3-4MB) because they're scanned copies.

So for me, having a way to quickly sync with sugarsync/ dropbox would be great. Whispernet, of course is the problem. It's silly and inefficient to force them back through the Amazon servers and out to T-mobile (with their rather high bandwith rates) when they're sitting on my laptop 10 feet away. That's why I hope a future kindle version has both PDF support and wifi (with a switch to save power). It could offer up so many ways to sync up great personal documents with dropbox/ sugarsync/ evernote.

This recent email from dropbox even promises a network aware version to quickly push a sync.

"Performance Improvements and LAN Sync
In addition to the iPhone app, we're also finishing up a new version of the Dropbox desktop software that features numerous performance improvements and our new "LAN sync" feature. LAN sync knows when Dropboxes are on the same network and will automatically exchange files directly between computers instead of downloading them from our servers - this makes sharing large files in an office environment much faster than was previously possible."

So close...

It's silly and inefficient to force them back through the Amazon servers and out to T-mobile (with their rather high bandwith rates) when they're sitting on my laptop 10 feet away.

If you have a laptop only 10 feet away, why do you not simply copy the files via USB?

If you have a laptop only 10 feet away, why do you not simply copy the files via USB?

Yes, that would indeed appear to be the simplest solution...even if conversion is needed (for, say, PDFs), I'd do that w/ Mobipocket Creator first (the results have always seemed to be identical with that provided by emailing via Amazon) and use the cable.

If you have a laptop only 10 feet away, why do you not simply copy the files via USB?

Yeah, of course I could. I just "print to pdf" many articles throughout the day. Was trying to eliminate the extra step. For me, it would be great to streamline the process down to dragging a file to a folder on my computer and having it automatically appear on my kindle.

I mean, I could also print the files on my laser printer that's 2 feet away, but this is the developer's corner and we're trying to find new solutions.

Yeah, of course I could. I just "print to pdf" many articles throughout the day. Was trying to eliminate the extra step. For me, it would be great to streamline the process down to dragging a file to a folder on my computer and having it automatically appear on my kindle.


If your Kindle is connected to your PC via USB, that's exactly what you would be doing, of course.

I understand what you're saying, but sometimes the "low-tech" solutions really are the most practical.

If Amazon does launch a European/British Kindle with wifi - this model might be hackable in the US to do just this - access an online storage site and sync with your Kindle!

If your Kindle is connected to your PC via USB, that's exactly what you would be doing, of course.

I understand what you're saying, but sometimes the "low-tech" solutions really are the most practical.

I usually prefer to read my books in cuneiform, but the release schedule is rather slow.

I usually prefer to read my books in cuneiform, but the release schedule is rather slow.


:rimshot: