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Jim-Beam
05-19-2009, 03:38 PM
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-q7-tablet-%e2%80%93-live-pics-and-availability

7" screen, runs Linux, and costs less than $200!
The website above is doing an unboxing and initial impression...

I have a Kindle 2 and am now considering getting this device for reading Pdf's. I know the screen will be harder on my eyes, but it's less than half the price of the DX, especially when I already own a K2 I don't really wanna spend that much on another ebook reader. I thought I'd mention this in case someone in a similar situation may be interested in this device.

ColdSun
05-20-2009, 01:07 AM
I was actually on the live unboxing event watching and talking with Chippy.

The device uses linux, and can be modified to use a version of Mer (for you 770/800/810 folks).

The ebook reading application is FBReader and you can rotate the screen and go full-screen with it.

I'm going to buy one tomorrow I think. I've been looking at so many devices lately but I think its perfect for me (after the UMPC Portal demonstration today I was sold). I might wait until they do an official first impressions post before I take the plunge. I know I've been talking about getting this or that device for a long time - but this is it! Finally, a great LCD ebook reader for us backlit loving folks!

Jim-Beam
05-20-2009, 10:05 AM
That's exciting, pls share what you think about the Q7 if you do get it. I'll be in Hong Kong in July and will try to see if I can find one there.

ColdSun
05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Will do. I ordered the device about 10 minutes ago. I'll do a full review and post screenshots after I get it. I'm excited to share this with our community here - there are many people like us who have been looking for a device like this in this form factor.

One of the best things about this device is the battery! Yesterday during the live demonstrations Chippy said that the device was charged about 75% when he started. He used it around 9-10 hours, off and on wireless usage, before the battery got low. I'm just going to guess and say that I'll need to charge it like twice a week or so. I saw a post on a forum that stated this device can play music for 24 hours straight with the screen off. That's not bad at all.

For me, web browsing, email and other features, although slow compared to some of the fancy MIDs out there these days, are just bonus features. Using it as an ebook reader that can read PDFs and other formats with a decent battery life and backlight are what I really want it for.

ColdSun
05-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc7OCbuwj8s

Jim-Beam
05-20-2009, 07:59 PM
Wow, it looks really usable in the video. I guess unless it turns out to be incredibly unreliable I'll buy it in a heartbeat.

Jaime_Astorga
05-21-2009, 12:43 AM
Wow, that video got me interested on this thing, as did its low price. I'll definitely keep an eye on this little device.

Chippy
05-22-2009, 01:13 PM
Hi all. I can definately recommend the Q7 as an internet enabled reader. Battery life and stability have been good so far. Even the browser seems good (i'm using it righ now!)

Some more pics here...
http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/v/SmartQ7/

I will have some first impressions up soon but feel free to ask questions here.

stasys
05-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Chippy, what is your impression about reading outdoor?

wallcraft
05-22-2009, 01:21 PM
I see it has FBReader (photos labeled (5), (4), (3)), presumably pre-installed?

What software does it use for PDFs?

ilovejedd
05-22-2009, 01:26 PM
Wow, that looks awesome. Special request, can you please test it for reading comics/manga (cbr/rar or cbz/zip format)? Thanks!

Chippy
05-22-2009, 01:28 PM
Chippy, what is your impression about reading outdoor?

I wouldnt recommend this for outdoor use. Although I was able to use the device in a shaded area at max brightness, it wasnt comfortable. A backlight hack might be possible but then there's the glossy screen to contend with.

Chippy
05-22-2009, 01:29 PM
Wow, that looks awesome. Special request, can you please test it for reading comics/manga (cbr/rar or cbz/zip format)? Thanks!

I have no idea how I would do this. Sorry! If you can send me a file that works in FBreader or the PDF reader, I can test it.

Steve

ilovejedd
05-22-2009, 01:34 PM
I have no idea how I would do this. Sorry! If you can send me a file that works in FBreader or the PDF reader, I can test it.

Steve
I'll PM you some download links when I get home. In the meantime, does it have a built in photo viewer application? cbr and cbz are basically rar and zip archives containing sequentially named image files (usually jpg, png or gif). Hmm, this is running a Linux distro, right? Can you perhaps install Comical (http://comical.sourceforge.net/) or Comix (http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Education/Comix-4268.shtml) on the device?

Thanks! :)

Chippy
05-22-2009, 01:36 PM
I see it has FBReader (photos labeled (5), (4), (3)), presumably pre-installed?

What software does it use for PDFs?

Fbreader is pre-installed although it's V8 which I hear I quite old.
Updating might be possible from the Ubuntu ARM repositories but I havent got that far yet!

As for PDFs, it uses Evince 2.2 which can handle postscript and other formats too.

Also tested today:
Bluetooth dial-up-networking to connect to internet via a mobile phone.
Instant-on works well. I havent turned the device off for nearly three days. It will probably last 3 days on instant-on standby if not used.

As for 'reading' battery life, Its hard to tell with the 4-stage battery indicator but it should be in the 8-12 hours region with 50% backlight and no wifi connectivity.

Chippy
05-22-2009, 01:40 PM
I'll PM you some download links when I get home. In the meantime, does it have a built in photo viewer application? cbr and cbz are basically rar and zip archives containing sequentially named image files (usually jpg, png or gif). Hmm, this is running a Linux distro, right? Can you perhaps install Comical (http://comical.sourceforge.net/) or Comix (http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Education/Comix-4268.shtml) on the device?

Thanks! :)

OK. I'll test those when you send them.

It has a built-in photo viewer (gpicview) and can also unpack rar and zip files.

Remember this is running Linux on ARM so its very hard to install packages unless they have already been built for the specific ARM sub-architecture. Not as easy as on PC's!

Chippy
05-22-2009, 01:49 PM
I guess this is the pic most people here would be interested in.

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/d/16553-3/smartdevicesq7+_5_.jpg

ilovejedd
05-22-2009, 01:59 PM
Remember this is running Linux on ARM so its very hard to install packages unless they have already been built for the specific ARM sub-architecture. Not as easy as on PC's!
Yeah, that's exactly what I was wondering. Most apps seem to be made for x86, hence, I wanted to know if there are comic viewing apps available for it. :p

In any case, gpicview might be sufficient. Since it's fairly inexpensive, I might get one or two once I've paid for my more recent gadget splurge (Denon AVR-789, Nintendo DS Lite, Acer Aspire One, and lastly, a Fujitsu P1620 :o).

ColdSun
05-22-2009, 04:44 PM
Chippy - that is the perfect picture to show us. Mine should be here in a week or two, depending on how long shipping takes. I'm also talking with the Mer developers and will be doing Mer testing on this device with them after I receive it.

Edit: There is a good chance if there is a comic reader application for Maemo (linux-based Nokia Internet Tablet OS) or a good image viewer, it can be used on this device. Especially after we get Mer working on it. I think they have Mer working on the SmartQ 5, which is the 4.3" version. From what I understand, there is not much difference in both devices other than the function buttons on the SmartQ 7 which the SmartQ 5 doesn't have.

wallcraft
05-22-2009, 06:21 PM
There is a good chance if there is a comic reader application for Maemo (linux-based Nokia Internet Tablet OS) or a good image viewer, it can be used on this device. Evince on the Nokia tablets is apparently configured to read cbr and cbz. These formats are advertised as "optional" on the Evince web site, so they may not be in the Q7 build.

Gideon
05-22-2009, 06:44 PM
Very fascinating. Would be very interested in seeing some standard sized PDF's and the comics as well on it.

Chippy
05-23-2009, 07:35 AM
I've added images of the Q7 showing standard PDFs to the UMPCPortal gallery.

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/v/SmartQ7

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/d/16593-3/23052009909.jpg

Gibbo
05-23-2009, 11:07 AM
If it supports my current mobipocket ebooks then I'm definitely buying one.

Nate the great
05-23-2009, 11:11 AM
If it supports my current mobipocket ebooks then I'm definitely buying one.

It does-so long as you remove the DRM.

Gibbo
05-23-2009, 11:28 AM
It does-so long as you remove the DRM.

Thx nate, just read that fbreader supports decrypted mobi files. Looks like I'm goner spend the best part of next week decrypting my library.

wallcraft
05-23-2009, 11:41 AM
just read that fbreader supports decrypted mobi files. It does not support MOBI's high compression mode, but this is rarely used in fiction ebooks. If you find one of these, one work around is to convert it to ePub using Calibre.

Chippy
05-23-2009, 11:59 AM
dont forget that its version 8 on the q7. The latest is v10.
im sure it wont take someone long to compile the latest version though.

ilovejedd
05-23-2009, 12:19 PM
Hmm, are there any programs available for Ubuntu-ARM that can read epub?

wallcraft
05-23-2009, 12:23 PM
Hmm, are there any programs available for Ubuntu-ARM that can read epub? FBReader can read ePub, but it does not have full support for all ePub features. Another option is BookWorm (http://bookworm.oreilly.com/) (link down at preset) for reading ePubs from a web browser.

Jaime_Astorga
05-23-2009, 08:15 PM
*looks at the PDF pictures*

Ohhh, me likes! Does anybody know where this thing can be bought?

ilovejedd
05-23-2009, 10:22 PM
You can email them to request a quote and make a purchase (http://www.eletroworld.cn/ please note, there is no c in eletroworld). They're very fast at replying. I sent them an email last night and I received a reply within 15 minutes or so. Quote they gave was a little over $240 with US shipping and Paypal fee, which is around the same as Chippy paid, I think (minus the German import tax).

Now I'm just debating if I should get one or two... :o

ColdSun
05-24-2009, 01:38 AM
Same exact thing for me as ilovejedd. Ordered from the same place. They were fast to respond. They will charge you for EMS shipping and an extra amount if you use Paypal. They also accept Western Union, but I would pay the extra and go Paypal myself. They seem to have done well for Chippy, and I'll be sending them anyone I know who is interested if they do the same for me. :) Mine was ordered last Wednesday.

Gibbo
05-24-2009, 05:03 AM
I was quoted $267 ($66 Fedex shipping to Gibraltar,Europe) with Paypal fee. At todays rate it's Ł168.00 not bad at all, I'll think it over lunch :)

Chippy
05-24-2009, 08:08 AM
Another interesting pic...
Mobipocket reader over remote desktop from my Vista box displayed on my Q7.

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/d/16629-4/3558643315_c1077bf555_o.jpg

Gibbo
05-24-2009, 08:17 AM
Another interesting pic...
Mobipocket reader over remote desktop from my Vista box displayed on my Q7.

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/d/16629-4/3558643315_c1077bf555_o.jpg

Oh my god!!! I'm getting excited now, does that mean I don't really need to decrypt my mobi ebooks?.

Chippy
05-24-2009, 09:02 AM
A small hack on the Q7 to install 'rdesktop' and a remote-desktop capable windows machine and this will work. Of course you will need local network capability to do this which will bring the battery life down to about 6-7 hours but yes, this is one way to do it.
I've been using Firefox on my desktop this way too. It's way way faster and allows one to run internet apps too.

I wrote an article on this topic last year:
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/04/1439

ColdSun
05-24-2009, 10:37 AM
Chippy,

That opens a whole new realm of possibilities! You have to share your knowledge of how you made the rdesktop hack work on the Q7. Does flash work when you run Firefox in this manner?

Gibbo
05-24-2009, 10:56 AM
Just got confirmation of my order and should be here sometime next week :)

Over
05-24-2009, 03:04 PM
Why "kindle-killer"? It's not eInk, how can you compare?

Nate the great
05-24-2009, 03:19 PM
Why "kindle-killer"? It's not eInk, how can you compare?

And that is exactly why it could be a Kindle killer. The only thing an eink screen is good for is linear reading. The screen refresh rate is too slow for anything else.

An LCD screen, on the other hand, can do much more.

ColdSun
05-24-2009, 04:07 PM
Kindle - Black and white eInk with no backlight, superior battery life
Q7 - backlight, color, internet tablet capabilities, Remoting, much much more...

I had a Sony PRS-505 for a while and it wasn't really my cup of tea. The only benefit I saw was the extra battery life, but I do most of my reading in no light or low light situations so it just wasn't as good as an LCD device. I preferred my eBookwise-1150 or Nokia N770 to the Sony. That's just me, but I know a lot of other people feel exactly the same way. Plus, the Kindle is far too expensive for a single function device.

gerraldo
05-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Another interesting pic...
Mobipocket reader over remote desktop from my Vista box displayed on my Q7.


I NEED to get my hands on one of these ASAP!!!!!!! :jump:

Nate the great
05-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Kindle - Black and white eInk with no backlight, superior battery life
Q7 - backlight, color, internet tablet capabilities, Remoting, much much more...

I had a Sony PRS-505 for a while and it wasn't really my cup of tea. The only benefit I saw was the extra battery life, but I do most of my reading in no light or low light situations so it just wasn't as good as an LCD device. I preferred my eBookwise-1150 or Nokia N770 to the Sony. That's just me, but I know a lot of other people feel exactly the same way. Plus, the Kindle is far too expensive for a single function device.

you, me, most everyone who's chosen LCD over eink, as well as sizable part of the digital publishing industry.

This last is not a joke or an exaggeration. I spoke to a bunch of people from a bunch of companies at DB09, and the general opinion was that while eink is nice, there are many purposes for which it won't work.

Steven Lyle Jordan
05-24-2009, 04:52 PM
you, me, most everyone who's chosen LCD over eink, as well as sizable part of the digital publishing industry.

This last is not a joke or an exaggeration. I spoke to a bunch of people from a bunch of companies at DB09, and the general opinion was that while eink is nice, there are many purposes for which it won't work.

Agreed here, too. The multi-function aspect of the Q7, for a lower price, is exactly why it could beat out the Kindle in the market (and why I'd more likely get the Q7 than a Kindle... ever).

Over
05-24-2009, 05:16 PM
Kindle - Black and white eInk with no backlight, superior battery life
Q7 - backlight, color, internet tablet capabilities, Remoting, much much more...

I had a Sony PRS-505 for a while and it wasn't really my cup of tea. The only benefit I saw was the extra battery life, but I do most of my reading in no light or low light situations so it just wasn't as good as an LCD device. I preferred my eBookwise-1150 or Nokia N770 to the Sony. That's just me, but I know a lot of other people feel exactly the same way. Plus, the Kindle is far too expensive for a single function device.


The main reason I bought an eink device, is to save my eyes from CRT and LCD monitor. The light and radiation tire our eyes faster. Being able to read in an electronic device as if we were reading paper... That's the main strong point of eink technology.

My eyes' health was my main concern when buying the device. And I guess I'm not the only one. :chinscratch:

Hadrien
05-24-2009, 05:18 PM
Very interesting, but I'd rather have Android on it than Ubuntu.

Chippy
05-24-2009, 05:44 PM
Hadrien. I think there's a good possibility that Android will be running on this before long, unofficially of course. Maemo (via the Mer project) is another good possibility.

Gibbo
05-24-2009, 05:50 PM
I see good things coming to the Q7 :)

quant
05-24-2009, 06:53 PM
1.
is it able to read OCRed pdf files?
2.
is there a pdf application in which user can annotate pdf files?

Thanks

SpiderMatt
05-24-2009, 09:31 PM
I definitely can't see this being a "Kindle Killer." People buy Kindles for specific reasons that LCD screens can't match. I think this device looks awesome and I definitely want to get one in the future but it lags in the area of battery life and reading outside (I like reading outside). But this device would be great for many other things, obviously, including PDF reading and internet reading.

I do have one question: is there an on-screen keyboard to allow us to search the text of ebooks?

purl4peace
05-24-2009, 11:53 PM
I definitely can't see this being a "Kindle Killer."
...
I do have one question: is there an on-screen keyboard to allow us to search the text of ebooks?

I don't know if this particular device has an "on-screen keyboard" but they list a detachable keyboard as an accessory.

In looking at their website, I was incredibly impressed by the wide array of netbooks and touchscreen offerings particularly given the price point. I love my e-Ink readers but I have an Asus EEPc that I use at work as a Music Player/netbook/eReader and these devices look like they would blow away the Asus for 1/2 the price. The fact many of the devices can function as a tablet/netbook/eReader is very impressive and tempting.

purl4peace
05-25-2009, 12:07 AM
Why "kindle-killer"? It's not eInk, how can you compare?

I'll tell you why this is a potential Kindle-Killer:

1. If you look at the negative postings, most people there say it is because the kindle is only black and white and doesn't have back-lighting... they don't understand the advantages of eInk. I would argue this is the majority of people contemplating a reader device so you have a much larger potential market.

2. The price point for this is less than 1/2 of the Kindle 2 and about a 1/3 the price of the Kindle DX and it supports PDF just fine.

3. People like the idea of multi-functional devices. Because of the wireless, if you have SKYPE, this could replace folks cell phones etc.

4. This device gives you flexibility... you prefer a keyboard? You can get a physical keyboard. You prefer touch only? you have that too. You want wireless? You've got wireless. You only use USB? They've gotcha covered there too.

If you go over to amazon and look at all the critical posts, every single one of the criticisms is addressed by this device.

I *REALLY* like the idea of using remote connect to access your mobi-pocket reader (or Sony Library or any other PC device) to help you augment your eInk reader of choice. This device wouldn't make me throw out my Sony. But as an adjunct to the Sony for situations where the Sony isn't appropriate (like dark rooms), this is perfect!

mobelby
05-25-2009, 12:20 AM
Just sent over an order enquiry for shipping to Oz. Let's see the total price. I'll take on board your recommendations for paypal over westernunion

Gideon
05-25-2009, 12:27 AM
I look forward to hearing one of our regulars around here talk about it after they've played with it some.

I really want to think this is a good option, but I need more feedback first.

mobelby
05-25-2009, 12:38 AM
Two obvious points I forgot to say:

1. a linux (ARM) port of calibre would be great for this as a library tool - I'll ask Kovid how hard it is to make his linux version work on the ARM processor
2. Calibre has an inbuilt viewer for non-drm EPUB

ColdSun
05-25-2009, 01:17 AM
In my experience of about 6 months with my PRS-505, I didn't find that it was better for my eyes at all, in fact, it was worse because I read in low light situations more often than I read outside. In fact, the dots per inch of my Nokia N770 is double what the Kindle has by comparison. I enjoy reading on it far more than I ever did my PRS-505.

I definately don't feel extra eye strain that some people point out using an LCD, but maybe that's just me. I look at computer screens all day working, so why does it have to be any different when I read on a mobile device? Seriously, they aren't going to take iPhones and suddenly make them eInk. What they will do, is make eBook reading on the iPhone easy - which they have already done. Why do we even need a Kindle? Because Amazon forces it down our throats. If they took the time to research the market instead of jumping on the eInk bandwagon, they could have made a multi-purpose device that not only read ebooks, but did far more and even had the application store the iPhone has - which has had over a BILLION applications downloaded since it was released.

The only advantages I see to eInk are:
1. Long Battery Life
2. Great for reading outside or in good lighting - the main reason anyone would want this over LCD I think.

We already carry a bunch of mobile devices. Why aren't we combining them or furthering the capabilities of some of them at least? Why must we have a tablet-sized device that ONLY reads ebooks when it can do so much more? Just so we don't have to plug it in for a month? I don't mind charging my new Q7 two or three times a week. I do it already with other devices that aren't even for reading.

Last but not least, the pricing on the kindle devices is just out-of-line. I can buy so many devices that do so much more than just read ebooks for the price they are charging. I can buy a decent UMPC for that price. I can get access to mobipocket, PDFs and other ebook formats. I'm not locked into just dealing with Amazon for my books.

Batteries for LCD devices are making some great progress too. The battery on this device is really quite good. I guess I can see a market for eInk for people that do a lot of reading in good light, but for me, I would much rather have a device that can do so much more and still read and be in the book/tablet form factor.

rgeorg
05-25-2009, 02:03 AM
Sounds like this might be a good replacement for my 7" Asus Eee (which could go to my daughter) - but I'll wait a few months for feedback.

Seems like it has very little RAM (128MB) as opposed to the standard 512MB used for Linux devices (I have 1 GB in my Eee). Will this support video playback without skipping (VLC?)? And how fast will pages turn with PDF? Will Open Office or some other word-processor run on it? Will it play mp3? Even though my Eee weighs in at double (1kg vs 480gr) and has only about a 4,5 hour battery life - it does all of the above very nicely.

Although, if ithe Q7 has a good screen-brightness control that can turn down the backlighting as required - then even just as an ereader it is a good price-point. But sometimes - like on my Classmate tablet - the touchscreen functionality makes it more reflective and difficult to read.

Looking forward to hearing reviews from these courageous (and with more disposable income!) first adopters!

ruskie
05-25-2009, 02:19 AM
I'll stick to eInk for reading. I tend to stare at LCDs whole days and frankly I get tired of it.

As for eInk over LCD...

eInk is perfect for reading for me. It means I don't have to strain my eyes(yes I actually notice when I'm doing so on an LCD). This is one of the reasons I tend to rest my eyes on the keyboard while typing even though I'm perfectly capable of touch typing.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question462.htm <-- I guess this would be an issue for some and I know it is for me.

But this still looks like a nice mobile device for general use. I don't expect my devices to do everything and I'm dying for an eInk cell phone. I know there's a Motorola F3 might even get it but I doubt it.

As for using LCD for reading I tried this a few times. Took about 5 minutes then I couldn't stand it anymore. Doing things on the LCD vs reading are two completly different things.

Anyway great device but I'll wait for the http://www.openpandora.org ;)

Andybaby
05-25-2009, 02:19 AM
I'll tell you why this is a potential Kindle-Killer:

1. If you look at the negative postings, most people there say it is because the kindle is only black and white and doesn't have back-lighting... they don't understand the advantages of eInk. I would argue this is the majority of people contemplating a reader device so you have a much larger potential market.

2. The price point for this is less than 1/2 of the Kindle 2 and about a 1/3 the price of the Kindle DX and it supports PDF just fine.

3. People like the idea of multi-functional devices. Because of the wireless, if you have SKYPE, this could replace folks cell phones etc.

4. This device gives you flexibility... you prefer a keyboard? You can get a physical keyboard. You prefer touch only? you have that too. You want wireless? You've got wireless. You only use USB? They've gotcha covered there too.

If you go over to amazon and look at all the critical posts, every single one of the criticisms is addressed by this device.

I *REALLY* like the idea of using remote connect to access your mobi-pocket reader (or Sony Library or any other PC device) to help you augment your eInk reader of choice. This device wouldn't make me throw out my Sony. But as an adjunct to the Sony for situations where the Sony isn't appropriate (like dark rooms), this is perfect!

I did buy a Netbook the minute they came out instead of the Kindle because they were the same price, and the netbook is a computer, after 6 months I knew I made a mistake, anyone who reads heavily on a backlighted screen will suffer eyestrain problems, and I'm 20 with 20/20 vision.

2. the price point is there. thanks to netbooks, which this pretty much is

3. maybe replace home phones, cell phones work anywhere, this needs wifi

4. it's a netbook of course its flexable

also, reading in the dark with a back light screen will kill your eyes 10x faster than reading in the light with a back light screen.

I think it's a handy device, but, anyone who reads on this for an extended period will get Eyestrain. its basically a 7" EEE pc (what I read on which killed my eyes) with a touch screen.

its nice, but its not even in the same league as the Kindle. this falls into "giant-PDA" device.. the apple tablet is gonna kill this anyway. though due to this device, if it becomes reasonably popular, might drive the price of apples tablet down a bit.

Sonist
05-25-2009, 03:08 AM
... As for using LCD for reading I tried this a few times. Took about 5 minutes then I couldn't stand it anymore. Doing things on the LCD vs reading are two completly different things....

I have to agree with this sentiment.

Cheap? Yes, but you'll pay for it when you buy your first pair of prescription glasses.

I am also curious what the refresh rate of this thing is? As a simple test, look to the side of the screen - if you see flicker, it will kill your eyes.

I just can't get too excited about LCD for long reading purposes - that's why I am not waiting for Pixel Qi with baited breath.

Now, OLED is another thing, and I think the first company with a decent 9-10" OLED device will likely get my $$$. Money is very important, but I've got only 2 eyes to last me a lifetime, so I am willing to pay a bit more to keep them happy.

mobelby
05-25-2009, 03:22 AM
Ruskie and Andybaby,

Perfectly good and valid points.

I'm weighing up between getting this and a netronix 6 inch eink reader at the moment (eg cooler reader). In terms of bang for buck this would be approx AUD300 delivered against AUD400 for a cooler.

What would I use them for ?
The cooler reader - only reading novels and nothing else
The MID tablet - reading novels, pdfs (eg economist and other magazines), web browsing and maybe as a photo viewer

A lot of what coldsun says above strikes a chord with me and I am also a firm believer that single function eink devices (based on vizplex or something very similar) will be less than $100 within two years so I'm very tempted by the MID. It's just a question of whether I believe I can read a whole novel on it.

Chippy
05-25-2009, 04:44 AM
I do have one question: is there an on-screen keyboard to allow us to search the text of ebooks?

Yes, there is an on-screen keyboard.

Sweetpea
05-25-2009, 04:47 AM
I look forward to hearing one of our regulars around here talk about it after they've played with it some.

I really want to think this is a good option, but I need more feedback first.

Same here.

I like the look of this device, it's just a large PDA! But as I've never used any form of linux, I'm a bit wary of that. Also, I don't know this FBreader, so I've no idea how it differs from my current app, MobiPocket (windows mobile).

The price is right though, and I love the form factor!

Chippy
05-25-2009, 04:48 AM
Two obvious points I forgot to say:

1. a linux (ARM) port of calibre would be great for this as a library tool - I'll ask Kovid how hard it is to make his linux version work on the ARM processor
2. Calibre has an inbuilt viewer for non-drm EPUB

There is an arm port in Ubuntu's repository but it's not quite the right build for the Q7. http://repository.handhelds.org/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/calibre/
It shouldn't be too much work to get a correct build done.

ruskie
05-25-2009, 04:50 AM
Well my mom likes it so she asked if it's good to read on it. I told her... try reading large amounts of text on an LCD screen. If you're fine with that then sure. That aside I'll probably buy her this as a gift. She really likes it. I do as well but might not get is as I already have an eeepc 701 which works fine.

Chippy
05-25-2009, 04:54 AM
Will this support video playback without skipping (VLC?)?
I'm having some success with Divx files but it's not perfect. Maybe someone can tweak mplayer to make this work 100%.


And how fast will pages turn with PDF? Will Open Office or some other word-processor run on it? Will it play mp3?
PDF page turning is quick once the pages have been built (i haven't seen any major delays yet) and it will play most audio formats including streaming from the internet.

As for replacing an EeePC 701, be careful as it's aimed at a completely different usage scenario - consumption, and is a much slower device in terms of running desktop apps. No flash on web browser either.

rgeorg
05-25-2009, 05:31 AM
@Chippy
I appreciate the answers to my questions. Thanks for all your info!

Sweetpea
05-25-2009, 05:42 AM
Well my mom likes it so she asked if it's good to read on it. I told her... try reading large amounts of text on an LCD screen. If you're fine with that then sure. That aside I'll probably buy her this as a gift. She really likes it. I do as well but might not get is as I already have an eeepc 701 which works fine.

I don't find that a fair way to check if find reading from a LCD screen handy or not.

I have a PDA, with a Transflective VGA TFT screen. This (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2199135/Transmissive-and-Transflective-LCDs) image says more than I ever could...

Besides, I find reading at my PDA much more comfortable than reading on my computer monitor... (which isn't transflective).

mobelby
05-25-2009, 06:11 AM
I don't find that a fair way to check if find reading from a LCD screen handy or not.

I have a PDA, with a Transflective VGA TFT screen. This (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2199135/Transmissive-and-Transflective-LCDs) image says more than I ever could...

Besides, I find reading at my PDA much more comfortable than reading on my computer monitor... (which isn't transflective).

So ... is the smartq7 transflective ????

Chippy
05-25-2009, 07:26 AM
So ... is the smartq7 transflective ????

No, not transflective. Outdoor readability with the Q7 is poor.

Steve

klikklak
05-25-2009, 07:32 AM
Meh, here I was getting ready to buy the cool-er reader and now I have to make a choice! damn it all to .. !

wallcraft
05-25-2009, 07:44 AM
Even though my Eee weighs in at double (1kg vs 480gr) and has only about a 4,5 hour battery life - it does all of the above very nicely. What does all this is the Viliv S5 (http://www.umpcportal.com/products/Viliv/S5/), which has a 4.8" screen and costs $600. There will be a Viliv X70 with a 7" screen, but this will presumably be more expensive still.

The Q7 is a less capable device for less money, and overall perhaps better value for the money (although the Viliv's are very good if you need their capabilities in a handheld). It is also showing what a color Reader should look like - good for ebooks, good for PDFs, WiFi with mainstream web browser (no flash player).

Sweetpea
05-25-2009, 08:11 AM
No, not transflective. Outdoor readability with the Q7 is poor.

Steve

Hmm, I presume it has a glossy screen too? I don't like those...

ruskie
05-25-2009, 08:43 AM
I don't find that a fair way to check if find reading from a LCD screen handy or not.

I have a PDA, with a Transflective VGA TFT screen. This (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2199135/Transmissive-and-Transflective-LCDs) image says more than I ever could...

Besides, I find reading at my PDA much more comfortable than reading on my computer monitor... (which isn't transflective).

I'm speaking of non-transflective LCDs only as transflective ones aren't really all that common yet.

And as the talk here is about the Q7 and comparing that to an eInk it's fair to compare the Q7's display to a similar LCD display.

And yes I would assume a transflective LCD would be on-par with an eInk display in all but power usage. Which no matter how one goes about will most likely still be eInks greatest strength.

ColdSun
05-25-2009, 11:05 AM
I've been reading on LCD devices since I bought my RCA ebook reader back near 2001. I go to the eye doctor once a year with my son (my son has a stigmatism) and get a checkup myself. I have no problems with my eyes and as I stated, I read mostly in low light or totally dark situations. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but I will say that most of us here stare at LCD screens all day anyhow. So for the few hours you are going to read, you are going to get a device that basically only works in well-lighted situations (unless you buy a wedge light which in my opinion makes it far more if a strain on my eyes than LCD, or buy a attached LED light that isn't much better). The only advantage - for me - to buy a kindle would be battery life.

I've purchased so many devices to read from over the years, because I love playing around with them. From my own experience, the best devices were LCD devices. For good reading experience the eBookwise-1150 is right up there. The DT375 Tablet PC was awesome for multi-purpose use but the form factor was a little big and it was heavy. The Nokia N770 was the best of all. I could do so much with that device! It has a fantastic quality LCD screen with great DPI and resolution.

The Smart Q7 is very much the child of the Nokia Internet Tablet. It is slightly faster than the N8x0 series, completely hackable and matches the ebook reading form factor that I've been looking for. I'm not looking for a UMPC - if I was I would be paying a lot more for it, although not much more than an over-priced Kindle that can only do one thing. I just can't justify spending the money on eInk, especially the Kindle, when I can get so much more for the price. At the same time, I'm just not sold on eInk at all. I never have been. I gave it a 6 month shot with my Sony PRS-505 so it isn't like I didn't try the technology.

One thing is a fact - eInk just can't do some of the things I want to do on my MID/ebook tablet. If Apple does come out with a new tablet device I am so there. I'm willing to bet it won't be eInk. :) In the meantime, I'll use my Nokia 770 and my Smart Q7 which I paid a fraction of the price for a Kindle to do a ton more with and I'll start saving for my Apple tablet...

Faenad
05-25-2009, 03:57 PM
I don't understand all this buzz for this device.

Sure, it's seem cheap, but when you add shipping, Paypal fee and the eventual import taxes it's end in the 240-300$ range, ie more or less the same than the other readers.

And it's coming directly from China, meaning that if someday you need support/warranty it will be as best costly, at worse nonexistent.
Not to mention that the website selling the devices also sell fake Iphone and HTC devices, coming complete with pirated software and Apple/HTC logo. Cheap too. Hardly the kind of website where I would do my shopping.



And it's not like it's the only LCD device fit to serve as a reader.
If you are not convinced by E-ink, there are a lot of LCD device on the market.

If you want only an LCD ebook reader, there is the Jetbook.
If you need a multi-purpose devices, there are offerings in all screen sizes : 3.5" Ipod, 4" to 5" PDA, 7" to 11" Netbook, etc.
There are regularly good promotions on Netbooks, recently CompUSA had refurbished 9" Acer netbook with XP at 199$.

Sweetpea
05-25-2009, 04:16 PM
I'm speaking of non-transflective LCDs only as transflective ones aren't really all that common yet.

And as the talk here is about the Q7 and comparing that to an eInk it's fair to compare the Q7's display to a similar LCD display.

And yes I would assume a transflective LCD would be on-par with an eInk display in all but power usage. Which no matter how one goes about will most likely still be eInks greatest strength.

As I don't have an e-ink screen (yet) to compare to my transflective TFT, I've no idea how they would compare.

And, the same as with ColdSun, I've been reading on my TFT for a long time now (first on a non-transflective, now on a transflective) and I've no problems at all. I've not even problems reading on my computer monitor (CRT), except it's very hard to take to bed :rolleyes:

ColdSun
05-25-2009, 04:58 PM
I don't understand all this buzz for this device.

Sure, it's seem cheap, but when you add shipping, Paypal fee and the eventual import taxes it's end in the 240-300$ range, ie more or less the same than the other readers.

And it's coming directly from China, meaning that if you need support/warranty it will be as best costly, at worse nonexistent.
Not to mention the website selling the devices also sell fake Iphone and HTC devices, coming complete with pirated software and Apple/HTC logo.



And it's not like it's the only LCD device fit to serve as a reader.
If you are not convinced by E-ink, there are a lot of LCD device on the market.

If you want only an LCD ebook reader, there is the Jetbook.
If you need a multi-purpose devices, there are offerings in all screen sizes : 3.5" Ipod, 4" to 5" PDA, 7" to 11" Netbook, etc.
There are regularly good promotions on Netbooks, recently CompUSA had refurbished 9" Acer netbook with XP at 199$.

So, your point that it is about the same price with shipping and the paypal charge as an eInk ebook device... Well yeah, that's our point too. Except it does alot more than a reader device. Its also an LCD and some of us prefer it over eInk for reasons stated before.

I don't see any pirated software on their site. I see devices that emulate an Apple device - and there are a lot of them - but nothing that is pirated. That is simply misinformation.

There is no doubt that the warranty situation could be a problem. Then again, it may not be as bad as you make it out to be either. I'll let you know if I need to do something with it.

Who said it was the only device fit to serve as a reader? I have quite a few devices that do the trick. The interesting thing about this device is that it does all the things those other devices do and is the form factor/size I'm looking for. It also does far more than just a single function device does. It runs a version of Linux and is hackable to modify even more excellent and free (totally legal) software. Have you ever owned a Nokia Internet Tablet? If you have, you know exactly what I'm talking about and you know its a pretty nifty and fun device to have.

I have an iPhone sitting right next to me right now. Its not too bad to read on, but my Nokia N770 is better. Still, I want something a bit bigger. The Nokia is great for travel and I'll continue using it for that, but this SmartQ 7 will be used around the house. I can remote into a desktop and do some cool things. I can surf the net, and I can read. Sounds perfect, and its big enough that it feels like a paperback. I like that.

As far as netbooks and notebooks - I don't want one. If I wanted a laptop or something with a keyboard sticking out I would buy one. I have a Macbook Pro and a Dell XPS laptop sitting next to me already. I don't really need a device with a teeny little keyboard. Basically, the form factor is not what I'm looking for.

I know exactly what I'm looking for. This device is a very good step in the right direction. I've studied countless devices and purchased enough of them to make my wife hate them with a passion. So now you know why *I* feel this is so cool and so useful.

Regards,
Cold

mobelby
05-25-2009, 05:52 PM
Hi Coldsun,

Trying real hard to decide and I've been struggling with the "e-ink is so much better than lcd" for a while now and playing with a 505 in waterstones did not make me feel that e-ink was paper.

Could you list exactly what apps/functions you'll be using your smartq for. That will help me quite a bit.

Thanks in advance

pathfinderca
05-25-2009, 05:55 PM
Does anybody know how much Do I need to pay to clear the customs? Thanks in advance.

Faenad
05-25-2009, 06:05 PM
I don't see any pirated software on their site. I see devices that emulate an Apple device - and there are a lot of them - but nothing that is pirated. That is simply misinformation.

Looks closer then at their WM phone products.

Their "HTO" phone are using HTC Touchflo software, for example. I doubt HTC licensed their software to a company cloning their products -they never licensed it to other regular manufacturer-.
Windows Mobile is not free either. They don't appear on Microsoft list of licensee, and anyway I doubt MS would approve to have Windows Mobile ships on an Iphone clone :chinscratch:

If you see a reputable website selling "device that emulate an Apple device" where I see a website selling cheap Iphone or HTC fake, your choice.

My main point is that i don't understand all the excitement around this product.
As we both agree, this is hardly the only device able to read ebook.

Even it's it the only one having a small 7" tablet form factor, there are many other device that have their own unique form factor, are not really more expensive, and are manufactured by serious company.
Many of them running on more established platform than ARM + Linux, with already many ebook reader software available.

If you know your way around Linux on ARM devices and know how to hacks it to run other distri/sotware, it probably a good choice. But for anyone else just looking for a non-eink reader/Multipurpose device, my guess is that they are going to be disappointed in the end.

ilovejedd
05-25-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't understand all this buzz for this device.

Sure, it's seem cheap, but when you add shipping, Paypal fee and the eventual import taxes it's end in the 240-300$ range, ie more or less the same than the other readers.
So? It's still cheaper than tablets of the same size.

And it's not like it's the only LCD device fit to serve as a reader. If you are not convinced by E-ink, there are a lot of LCD device on the market.

If you want only an LCD ebook reader, there is the Jetbook.
If you need a multi-purpose devices, there are offerings in all screen sizes : 3.5" Ipod, 4" to 5" PDA, 7" to 11" Netbook, etc.
There are regularly good promotions on Netbooks, recently CompUSA had refurbished 9" Acer netbook with XP at 199$.
Like ColdSun, I own a bunch of gadgets. I have a 3.5" iPhone, 4.3" PSP, 8.9" netbook, and 13.3~15.1" laptops. Also have an 8.9" Fujitsu tablet which costs more than three times the Smart Q7 on sale. I'm really liking the Fujitsu tablet a lot for use as ebook and comic reader, but it's a bit too expensive to be roughing up. I'd feel more comfortable "abusing" the Smart Q7 than I would my Fujitsu.

ColdSun
05-25-2009, 06:26 PM
Emulate according to Dictionary.com:

"to imitate (a particular computer system) by using a software system, often including a microprogram or another computer that enables it to do the same work, run the same programs, etc., as the first."

All they are saying is that it is copying the HTC or iPhone software. There are many clones out there that do this. Check out some of the touchscreen Personal Media Players on ebay. Many of them use an OS that resembles the iPhone or Ipod Touch. This does not mean they use the exact OS and have copied it - it just means they emulated it.

Now, my biggest worry is the shipping and responsiveness of this seller. They seem to have done Chippy right, and delivered it quickly. I took a chance and ordered mine from the same place. If anyone has any doubts about it, wait until I get mine and do my review and then make your decision. I promise to be very active on the forum and answer all the questions I can.

The form factor is one of the biggest reasons to go for a product like this. I've not seen another product with this form factor and size for this type of price. Chippy from UMPC has one and seems quite impressed. Mine is on the way and I'll be doing a review for it asap. One thing I want to stress, and I think Chippy also said this, is that this isn't going to replace your UMPC or Laptop.

I was on the chat when Chippy was doing the live unboxing of the SmartQ 7. He was actually answering some of the questions I was asking. Because of his help, I was able to see this thing live and being used. Other than having it sitting in my own lap, I don't think it could be any better than that. He answered questions that were very important to me in order to feel like I could use it.

So, if you are looking for an LCD device, with a decent battery life, a possible community from Mer, Plays MP3s while reading and has the battery to do it without dying in an hour, surfs the net, with some tweaking can remote to your PC and more - well this seems like a great deal to me. If you can find a better deal on a device like this in this form factor - please let me know. :)

EDIT: If you have a Nokia N770/8x0 Internet Tablet and like reading on it but wanted a bigger screen - this is a great device. Someone above mentioned the Jetbook. I hear the Jetbook is a great ebook device, but again its a single purpose device. I could live with that, because it is LCD, but what I can't live without is a backlight. The Jetbook does not have a backlight.

ColdSun
05-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Hi Coldsun,

Trying real hard to decide and I've been struggling with the "e-ink is so much better than lcd" for a while now and playing with a 505 in waterstones did not make me feel that e-ink was paper.

Could you list exactly what apps/functions you'll be using your smartq for. That will help me quite a bit.

Thanks in advance

Sure! Below is what I'll be using the device for, in order of highest priority to lowest:

1. Reading Ebooks
First and foremost I'll be using the FBReader application to read ebooks on the device.

2. Viewing PDFs
I'll use the device to view PDF files. Check this thread for some screenshots from Chippy showing it doing this quite nicely.

3. Internet
I'll use this in bed or when I watch TV to surf forums, twitter, chatting and other internet related tasks. By no means do I expect some super-duper web browser on this thing, and without flash I won't be seeing some pages I would like to see on my desktop/laptop, but honestly I'm not using this device for this.

4. Remote PC Access
Run Firefox and other internet applications remotely. Run mobipocket for DRMed books. There are many possibilities here. This might get technical for some folks so if you have an issue getting into techy part of things, you might want to bypass this.

5. Hacking the Device's OS
Replace the OS with Mer or another Linux distro and see what I can get running on this thing.

6. Possibly Buy a 2nd Device for Physical Modding
I like to custom paint my devices and do other cool mods. If I like the device enough I might buy a 2nd one to take apart and see what I can do to make it cooler.

Just to let you know, if I want a truly rich browser experience, I would just take my Macbook Pro or Dell XPS instead. So just to make it very clear - my main reason for buying this device is the form factor/backlight/screen size so I can read comfortably from home. The other things are just icing on the cake.

mobelby
05-25-2009, 07:30 PM
Thanks Coldsun.

Your post encouraged me to find out more about the Nokia 810 that's been out for a year and that I always figured was very expensive. I like that its got a transreflective lcd screen, standard nokia batteries (easy to get loads of replacements), has a big community and is backed by a company that care about their products and reputation.
I found one for AUD329, which ain't bad (approx USD250), which is a heck of a lot cheaper than other places around here (approx AUD600). It's a brand new import from HK but something I'm seriously looking at because of the price, flexibility and importantly the screen. One thing that really worries me about the smartq is if something goes wrong there's pretty much no fallback and you're AUD 310 out of pocket. I love the idea of the 7 inch but hate reflective screens.

Coldsun, would you recommend the N810 as a starter ebook reader at AUD329 ??

ColdSun
05-25-2009, 07:49 PM
Mobelby,

I don't blame you at all for being weary of the warranty. Also, the Nokia N810 is a fantastic little device. If you don't mind reading from a 4.1" screen, it does everything this device does with a community that stands behind it and is actively developing for.

You can find out a lot more information about the 810 here:

http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Also, they sell them on buy.com (not sure if you can order from there):

http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-full-pull-out-qwerty-keyboard-810/q/loc/101/206228943.html?adid=17992&dcaid=17992

Good luck!

Cold

wallcraft
05-25-2009, 07:49 PM
Even it's it the only one having a small 7" tablet form factor, there are many other device that have their own unique form factor, are not really more expensive, and are manufactured by serious company.
Many of them running on more established platform than ARM + Linux, with already many ebook reader software available. The 7" tablet form factor is good for web browsing and for ebook reading. This is the only device anywhere close to this price with this form factor. Obviously, a similar device could be made with WinMobile and it would then in some ways be more "mainstream". It would read MS Office documents for example and might support ebook readers with DRM. However, if someone is making such a device I am not aware of it. Similarly, there will soon be devices with this form factor running Windows XP but at a much higher price and probably with a shorter battery life.

All current dedicated ebook readers are running Linux. So this could be made into a Kindle-like ebook reader with the addition of the right software. It would not be much different from now, except that it would include a pre-loaded mobile Adobe Digital Editions or eReader (or MobiPocket Java Reader). I don't see this as likely for this particular device, but it does indicate that there is perhaps an unfilled niche here.

Nate the great
05-25-2009, 07:58 PM
Does anybody know how much Do I need to pay to clear the customs? Thanks in advance.

What country? What shipping method?

I can say that if you have them ship it "EMS"(I think that's what it is), custom dues shouldn't cost you anything in the US. You'll pick up the package at the post office.

If you use Fedex or UPS you will be charged by them. I don't know how much.

wallcraft
05-25-2009, 08:04 PM
Coldsun, would you recommend the N810 as a starter ebook reader at AUD329 ?? I used a Nokia 770 with FBReader as my primary ebook reader for a year. The screen was great and the N810 adds a transflective screen for outside viewing and an actual keyboard. The N810 screen is almost exactly half the size of a 6" EInk screen and I used the 770 in landscape mode (same width as a portrait mode 6" EInk, but half the height), so two page flips to one under EInk. However, there is no page flip delay. Overall I prefer an EInk screen for extended reading, and the battery life of a N810 is probably 4-6 hrs when reading, but I do miss the color screen for SciFi Magazines and other content with color illustrations.

tompe
05-25-2009, 08:14 PM
Cheap? Yes, but you'll pay for it when you buy your first pair of prescription glasses.


This is a myth. For example reading in bad lightning conditions will not hurt your eyes so you have to buy glasses.

jgray
05-25-2009, 09:08 PM
I was also interested in this device. I had a Nokia N800 that I used for a few years. The N800 was a very good ebook reader, but I wanted a larger screen. I also have a netbook and read on it, and although it is smaller than a laptop, it is still a bit too large and heavy as an ebook reader.

I have detailed elsewhere my very recent encounter with eInk (PRS-505). It just isn't there yet for me.

Something like the Q7 does appeal to many of us. It certainly would make a nicer reader than the N800 was. I ultimately ordered a Jetbook, based on size, battery life and price. The Q7 screen size would be preferable, but the overall device size looks to be bulkier and heavier than I want.

I haven't yet seen my "ideal" ebook reader, but it is encouraging that we are seeing more and more low-priced devices on the market. I suspect that in a few years, I will see something that I would consider ideal, or close to it.

jgray
05-25-2009, 09:11 PM
As far as the "fake" products, I don't know anything for certain, but I would imagine that if these devices were actually infringing on Apple and HTC copyrights, trademarks and patents, that they would be quickly seized at the dock when imported. The larger companies police this type of thing quite vigorously.

Faenad
05-25-2009, 11:21 PM
As far as the "fake" products, I don't know anything for certain, but I would imagine that if these devices were actually infringing on Apple and HTC copyrights, trademarks and patents, that they would be quickly seized at the dock when imported. The larger companies police this type of thing quite vigorously.

Such an offering in the US or in Western Europe would not last a month. In theory in China it's illegal too, but in fact their law enforcement on counterfeit product is very "relaxed". There are some occasional crackdown when there are some international events or an important presidential visit or the like, but not much.
Anyway I would not order their Apple or HTC fake, as if the customs open your package I guess it will be kept. But the Smart Q7 seems OK on this point, as it's ship with Linux and do not have any Apple logo or the like.

Faenad
05-25-2009, 11:35 PM
Emulate according to Dictionary.com:

"to imitate (a particular computer system) by using a software system, often including a microprogram or another computer that enables it to do the same work, run the same programs, etc., as the first."

All they are saying is that it is copying the HTC or iPhone software. There are many clones out there that do this. Check out some of the touchscreen Personal Media Players on ebay. Many of them use an OS that resembles the iPhone or Ipod Touch. This does not mean they use the exact OS and have copied it - it just means they emulated it.


Actually, they are not claiming to "emulate" the Iphone or Windows Mobile OS. You are the only one using this term.

Their website clearly states that these smartphones runs on Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional, with an added HTC Touchflo interface on top.

Ie : pirated software, on devices that have the exact same design as current HTC/Apple products and use the official HTC & Apple Logo.
Sometimes, you have to call a spade a spade. These are fake. Eletroworld may have a good product in the Smart Q7, but why do you feel the need to defend them or find excuse for them for other dubious offerings?

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9118/eworld.jpg

ColdSun
05-26-2009, 12:15 AM
I believe you actually said the word emulation before I defined it. Although, I'm looking at the phones you speak of and I'm definately not going to defend those products. On the other hand, I'm not going to call them pirates either. As you said, the device I ordered has a linux OS. I'll let everyone know how their sales service was for the SmartQ 7.

EDIT: They are also starting to show up on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/New-smart-Q7-Mobile-Internet-Device-MID-UMPC-Q5_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ230343831402QQsalenotsup ported

rdelfin
05-26-2009, 12:41 AM
This is a myth. For example reading in bad lightning conditions will not hurt your eyes so you have to buy glasses.

I suggest being cautious when saying "This is a myth" so lightly when dealing with health issues.

Using an LCD screen for READING purposes for prolonged periods of time throughout the course of a few days (let alone weeks or months) WILL place serious strain to your eyes which MAY cause eye problems in the long run (e-Ink does not cause eye strain since the eye is not exposed to a source of light). Reading under dark conditions is a whole different thing that has nothing to do with e-ink technology (if you read a good'ol paper book with no light, you would also be neglecting your eyes, so as with books, get a good bedside night lamp when using your e-ink reader). Be smart when weighing the facts and presenting the arguments (and that's no myth).

So please be careful people (and remember, as has been pointed out before, reading an LCD screen and doing stuff in an LCD screen are two complete different things). Please document your selves :bookworm: about e-ink technology (mobileread.com is a great place to start). I'm not a detractor of this device, I'm a detractor of what some are trying to do with it (it's almost like huge lawsuit-bomb waiting to happen). Don't play with your health.:smack:

ColdSun
05-26-2009, 01:38 AM
I think most of us here are already educated on e-Ink technology and some of us have chosen to look at something else. So basically, you are telling me if I spend 10 hours a day looking at my LCD desktop screen I WILL place serious strain on my eyes. I've been looking at some form of computer screen since age 11. I'm 41. I still have 20/20 and I've been staring at some sort of light for more years than I can remember and for countless hours.

What exactly are some people trying to do and how is there a huge lawsuit involved? I mean seriously, it almost sounds like a government scare policy to scare me into using e-Ink technology. "Do this or go blind!" :) The last time I checked, this site was called "mobileread.com" not "eInk.com." Let us talk about LCD devices without us having the e-Ink crowd constantly coming in here and bring up the same arguments about why e-Ink is better! :)

Since 2001 I've been reading on LCD devices. Why have I not seen any of these problems? There is no doubt that there are a majority of eInk supporters on this site as compared to other mobile device sites. The large majority of users on other sites read with devices other than eInk. These devices are getting more popular and functionality is being combined. The iPhone. Personal Media Players. UMPCs. Tablet PCs. MIDs. Zune. Many more. The number of ebook reading users is growing daily.

Tell me something - if reading with LCD is so bad because it is backlit, why did Sony just release a new reader that has a built in light (that is blurry by comparison to my Nokia N770)?

All I know is the experience I myself have had. I know my own opinion and I'm always interested in hearing other opinions. I prefer LCD over e-Ink. I want to see more LCD devices with multi-purpose in a tablet/ebook form factor. I had an e-Ink device for over six months and it wasn't for me at all.

Please, stop scaring these poor folks into thinking LCD will laser their eyes out or something. :chinscratch:

P.S. All of the above is my opinion and none of it is meant to be inflammatory or argumentative. On the other hand - I'm going to FIGHT for the technology I love!

maqsudbd
05-26-2009, 01:43 AM
Hi Guys

I am very interested in the product as netbook. Have anybody bought from the website ? Are they reliable ? How long do they take to deliver ?

Regards

Maqsud

ColdSun
05-26-2009, 01:45 AM
Maqsud,

The only person who has received a product from this company is Chippy. I ordered mine last week and I'll be posting a review on it as soon as it arrives. If it doesn't arrive, I'll be sure to let everyone here know that too! There are some others who have ordered it who might speak up here as well.

Good luck!

Cold

rgeorg
05-26-2009, 01:55 AM
@maqsudbd,
Chippy and others (ColdSun) have explained quite well why the Q7 is not a netbook replacement. I'm just a bit sad that I already have a 7" netbook and can't justify (yet!) buying one of these new devices. I've ordered a 5" jetBook as I am also a LCD-reading fan (with the backlight turned way low), and it is sufficiently different from my Eee in terms of size and battery to justify the cost to myself. Since I basically use the Eee for reading at home (at night), the Q7 would be for similar use with the same size screen (battery life is a non-issue at home).

Perhaps there can be a comparison between the jetBook and the Q7 screen clarity at some point? I wonder if touch-enabled screens are generally less usable (reflective/glare), or if it is just coincidence that the Sony 700 and the Classmate tablet screens are less than optimal?

Sweetpea
05-26-2009, 02:40 AM
Perhaps there can be a comparison between the jetBook and the Q7 screen clarity at some point? I wonder if touch-enabled screens are generally less usable (reflective/glare), or if it is just coincidence that the Sony 700 and the Classmate tablet screens are less than optimal?

I think that depends on the screen quality I think. I've two Loox's, a 600 and a 720. The 600 does have some glare, the 720 not. Both are TFT, both are touchscreen. One is transflective, the other not.



I've been looking in to this device, and even though I do like it, there are some points which I don't like enough to probably not buy it. The lack of a transflective screen is one, the Linux OS is another.

Sonist
05-26-2009, 03:53 AM
This is a myth. For example reading in bad lightning conditions will not hurt your eyes so you have to buy glasses.

I am hardly an expert on this, and I am willing to listen, but from what I've read, LCDs have their issues.

Compared to CRTs, LCDs are certainly much easier on the eyes. But, while the image itself may not flicker, the fluorescent backlight does, and your eye may experience fatigue because of it.

Very hight brightness can also contribute to eye fatigue. O the other hand, some LCDs are stable at their maximum brightness, while modulation may be introduced at lowered brightness levels. Power-saving features can also introduce such modulation.

These may, or may not be issues for this particular screen, but for long-term reading, I personally would probably stay away from LCD, and particularly one designed for cost and power savings.

ruskie
05-26-2009, 04:33 AM
I used good high quality CRTs, and then high quality LCDs. The strain from CRT to LCD is significantly lower that is true. But my eyes got whacked in less than 6 months of using a crap CRT @work. Due to that I need to wear glasses now so I'm a bit more careful about how I treat my eyes.

I was waiting for years for an eInk reader to try it locally before buying. Suffice it to say once I got my hands on one and played with it at the store I bought in within a week.

Before that I tried:

Palm m105, nokia 5140i, nokia n95, eeepc 701, various other PDAs I borrowed from friends and so on.

As for having multi-function devices I believe in the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well so I'll take a dedicated reader over a multifunction device always.

I often find myself relaxing my eyes consciously when working on LCDs. So that tells me LCDs aren't there yet for eye safety.

Anyway to each his own and my advice to everyone try-before-buy if you can else buy at a place with a good return policy so you can test it. And always take the time to test it since that will reduce issues. Be aware of your body while testing. It helps a lot to know what's going wrong.

Jim-Beam
05-26-2009, 05:28 AM
To those who are interested in the Q7 but are worried about Eletroworld: please remember that Eletroworld is only a website selling the device. The device itself is made by Smart Devices (http://www.smartdevices.com.cn). They make PMP's and MID's but not phones. AFAIK at the moment the only places outside mainland China where they have authorized dealers or resellers are Hong Kong and Singapore. As ColdSun has mentioned, the Q7 has started to show up on ebay, so if you don't feel comfortable buying from Eletroworld you don't have to, and the business practice of Eletroworld doesn't seem to have any direct relation to the quality (built, etc) of this device. I myself am still quite excited to hear what other owners have to say about it.

mobelby
05-26-2009, 06:36 AM
Coldsun,
I've researched a fair bit today and it looks like a maemo port is essential to making the most of this device. I'll watch to see how you and chippy get on. Should be plenty of news to follow with this, iphone next gen, cooler reader etc.

My ideal is a device like the iphone with OLED to read wherever and a larger device at home, whether it be eink or a really good lcd

klikklak
05-26-2009, 06:47 AM
I'm going to get a GP2x Wiz for portable OLED goodness, the screen is small at 2.8" but the device is easily pocketable and sdhc cards promise a lot of storage space.

With that and the Q7 I should be set for awhile.

Chippy
05-26-2009, 01:07 PM
I've posted an overview video of the device today that shows the applications in use. Focuses on the Browser, FBreader and PDF reader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y81VWJR7S0E

Hope this answers some questions.
Chippy

rdelfin
05-26-2009, 01:25 PM
I'm not here to "fight for a technology I love" or to present my self as an "e-ink evangelic" either.

In my previous post (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=470297&postcount=96) I shared information (fact) about eye strain with LCD and why I consider (opinion) to be a serious observation for everyone to know. Don't get me wrong: I am not promoting one technology while putting down the other (and I don't gain anything); I'm perfectly fine with both if used accordingly. My intention is (once again) to express the factual information that e-ink technology came about because it does not have the potential risk that LCD presents when used for :book2:-purposes.

Whether you have 20/20 vision after working for centuries with computers or whatnot is not the object of my discussion. I insist, be careful with your eyes people (and this ain't a "government-ish tactic" to scare anyone, OK?).

:thanks:

Gibbo
05-26-2009, 01:47 PM
I've posted an overview video of the device today that shows the applications in use. Focuses on the Browser, FBreader and PDF reader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y81VWJR7S0E

Hope this answers some questions.
Chippy

Thx for the vid chippy, could you also do one about rdesktop plzzzzz....

http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/d/16634-3/3559318144_de7cdccd47_b.jpg

carld
05-26-2009, 02:06 PM
Poor Kindle, so many wannabe Kindle Killers out there ...

wodin
05-26-2009, 02:06 PM
Does anyone know what version of FBReader it has? From the FBReader website, version 0.5.0 is supposed to support non-DRM MobiPocket files.

If I can read my Mobi books on this I might be tempted to drop the hammer on one!

ilovejedd
05-26-2009, 02:08 PM
Upon further consideration (and in spite of my gadget lust), I think I'm skipping the Smart Q7 in lieu of the Asus EEE PC T91. I've got a sizable manga collection and even cut down to my favorites, I'm still looking at ~50GB or so of data and that equates to a bit of money in terms of flash memory.

While, I'd really love to play with one, my practical side (didn't know I had one) tells me it would be insufficient for the things I would want to do.

Nate the great
05-26-2009, 02:10 PM
Does anyone know what version of FBReader it has? From the FBReader website, version 0.5.0 is supposed to support non-DRM MobiPocket files.

If I can read my Mobi books on this I might be tempted to drop the hammer on one!

It's running version 0.8.

Gibbo
05-26-2009, 02:10 PM
Does anyone know what version of FBReader it has? From the FBReader website, version 0.5.0 is supposed to support non-DRM MobiPocket files.

If I can read my Mobi books on this I might be tempted to drop the hammer on one!

It reads Mobi ebooks as long as you remove the drm I'm on the same boat as you.

tompe
05-26-2009, 02:28 PM
I'm going to get a GP2x Wiz for portable OLED goodness, the screen is small at 2.8" but the device is easily pocketable and sdhc cards promise a lot of storage space.


Why do you whant OLED? The OLED display on my Nokia N85 gives good colors and it might save a bit on the battery but it does not work at all in sun light.

imaredr
05-26-2009, 02:36 PM
I just ordered one this morning. E-ink is okay with me, but I am not a fan. My Jetbook would be perfefct had TPTB included backlighting. I think the price of the Q7 is reasonable. I too would like the have the Asus T91. when is that even hitting the streets? Well, it's been awhile since I have given into my tech lust, so I don't feel too bad.

Ellen

tompe
05-26-2009, 02:49 PM
My intention is (once again) to express the factual information that e-ink technology came about because it does not have the potential risk that LCD presents when used for :book2:-purposes.

Is this really correct (do you have a reference)? I always thought that the motivation was to get better battery time and get a more paper like experience with much better resolution and contrast and working in sun light.

klikklak
05-26-2009, 02:53 PM
Why do you what OLED? The OLED display on my Nokia N85 gives good colors and it might save a bit on the battery but it does not work at all in sun light.
By mobelbu:
My ideal is a device like the iphone with OLED to read wherever and a larger device at home, whether it be eink or a really good lcd

The Wiz reference was in reply to this. I haven't used an OLED device, but I'm very interested in new screen tech, so that's reason enough to get one.

wodin
05-26-2009, 03:23 PM
I just ordered one this morning. E-ink is okay with me, but I am not a fan. My Jetbook would be perfefct had TPTB included backlighting. I think the price of the Q7 is reasonable. I too would like the have the Asus T91. when is that even hitting the streets? Well, it's been awhile since I have given into my tech lust, so I don't feel too bad.

Ellen

Ellen,

Where did you order it? The www.eletroworld.cn website appears to be broken! :smack:

Nate the great
05-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Ellen,

Where did you order it? The www.eletroworld.cn website appears to be broken! :smack:

The site came up okay for me. You have to order by email (I think).

wodin
05-26-2009, 03:31 PM
The site came up okay for me. You have to order by email (I think).


Hmmm, it's prolly Mordred, the preventer of information has the :eek:Chinese:eek: website blocked!

:angry::angry::angry:

Sonist
05-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Why do you whant OLED? The OLED display on my Nokia N85 gives good colors and it might save a bit on the battery but it does not work at all in sun light.

The fact that Nokia chose a screen which doesn't work well under direct sunlight, doesn't mean, that all OLED screens do not work.

There is Transparent OLED, as well as a number of other ways to address this issue. See this (http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Choosing_an_ambient_light_sensor_to_optimize_OLED_ performance-article-osram-sensors-feb2007-html.aspx).

eimert
05-26-2009, 04:12 PM
Hi there,

not to start a flame war - but would it be possible run Windows Mobile on that machine? I am no computer specialist, but I seem to remember that ARM processors are also widely used in PDAs running Windows Mobile. I would just love to use my trusted µBook reader on that tablet ...

Cheers,
Klaus

Nate the great
05-26-2009, 04:18 PM
Hi there,

not to start a flame war - but would it be possible run Windows Mobile on that machine? I am no computer specialist, but I seem to remember that ARM processors are also widely used in PDAs running Windows Mobile. I would just love to use my trusted µBook reader on that tablet ...

Cheers,
Klaus

It's certainly possible, but I don't know that it's practical. I do know that the seller says someone has gotten Windows CE 6.0 running from a SD card.

ProDigit
05-26-2009, 04:29 PM
it has no e-ink screen, battery life is not 2 weeks, resolution is only 800x480 (480p) where as ebook readers with e-ink screen have an 800x600 resolution.

It's a good mini netbook, but I would prefer an Asus EeePc 901, has a larger screen and has more items like USB ports, even faster processor, more ram(though lower battery life), and more diskspace. It also has XP installed (Linux free and/or optional, drivers free online).

It might be me, but an electronic book device for me needs to have lots of battery life (just like a notebook or any electronic device)... I remember playing my first gameboy for several days before the battery got empty.

Ow, and Chippy, nice to see you here too!

Nate the great
05-26-2009, 04:31 PM
it has no e-ink screen, battery life is not 2 weeks, resolution is only 800x480 (480p) where as ebook readers with e-ink screen have an 800x600 resolution.

It's a good mini netbook, but I would prefer an Asus EeePc 901, which costs less, has a larger screen and has more items like USB ports, even faster processor, more ram(though lower battery life), and more diskspace. It also has XP installed (Linux free and/or optional, drivers free online).

It might be me, but an electronic book device for me needs to have lots of battery life (just like a notebook or any electronic device)... I remember playing my first gameboy for several days before the battery got empty.

The 901 w/XP costs less than $240? Really? I'll go get one.

wwang
05-26-2009, 04:33 PM
Can you post the specs on the power supply input, and output? What kind of battery it is likely to be?

Example stats:
IE the power supply is 110V AC and the output is 11.1VDC at 500ma and the battery is 2000mah.

ColdSun
05-26-2009, 04:42 PM
The battery is 4500mAH. Chippy might be able to answer the other power supply questions.

ProDigit
05-26-2009, 04:45 PM
The 901 w/XP costs less than $240? Really? I'll go get one.

srry, $279 is the closest I can get. I still prefer it over any other mini notebook, despite it's age.

ColdSun
05-26-2009, 04:53 PM
I don't want a larger screen or a keyboard.

rdelfin
05-26-2009, 05:12 PM
Is this really correct (do you have a reference)? I always thought that the motivation was to get better battery time and get a more paper like experience with much better resolution and contrast and working in sun light.

I'm not talking about "Motivations", I'm talking about benefits, but if having to have any sort of references is your thing, the best I can do right now is to give you a few sources just as an example of what is to be found (which in turn they had to make use of references that you may investigate further).


Taken from: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-e-ink.htm
An advantage of e ink displays over the backlit displays of cell phones, PDAs, and similar other electronic devices is that they consume much less energy because they require power only when the display is changed. In addition, they are easier on the human eye because backlighting strains the reader's eyes.


Taken from: http://www.aip.org/dbis/stories/2007/17027.html
BENEFITS: The E-Ink technology is reflective, so it uses almost no power; even large displays will use a minimum amount of electricity. So the Sony Reader need not be turned off; it can be set aside just as one would do with a printed book. The current page remains on the screen without draining any battery power. In fact, a single charge is good for 7,500 page turns. The screen is easily readable outdoors. And E-Ink can be used to coat almost any surface, so it is ideal for flexible display applications. Also, studies have shown that users reported increased readability and minimal eyestrain compared to other electronic book technology. The Human Factors and Ergonomics Society and the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc., contributed to the information contained in the TV portion of this report.


Taken from: http://www.obsessable.com/glossary/e-ink/
E-ink describes a type of display that is high contrast and doesn't require power to maintain state. E-ink doesn't use any sort of backlight natively, making text more readable and eases potential eye strain. While there are a variety of technologies behind e-ink, the basic premise remains the same: pieces of e-ink have a dark side and a light side, with magnets or other methods being used to toggle between the states.


And yes, battery life and contrast in sun light are two factors as well (and btw, better contrast is easier to the eye).

If you still find your self hungry for more: try google :bulb2:

Chippy
05-26-2009, 05:16 PM
Can you post the specs on the power supply input, and output? What kind of battery it is likely to be?

Example stats:
IE the power supply is 110V AC and the output is 11.1VDC at 500ma and the battery is 2000mah.

PSU is 100-250v (american plug, you'll need an adaptor, i'm using it in Germany with no problem) and the output is 5v. I haven't measured the current. I am tempted to try my Nokia adaptor which fits it you wiggle it in but i'm having too much fun with the Q7 to risk it!

Note that the battery isn't easily replaceable.

Steve.

Chippy
05-26-2009, 05:18 PM
I've prepared a review that will be posted on UMPCPortal tomorrow. It's not a traditional formal review but more of a thought-piece that contains all the technical information you'll need to make a decision, links to gallery and all the videos.

tompe
05-26-2009, 06:06 PM
I'm not talking about "Motivations", I'm talking about benefits,


Oh, I did not know that "came about because it does not have" could mean that it was just a benefit.

pathfinderca
05-26-2009, 06:12 PM
What country? What shipping method?

I can say that if you have them ship it "EMS"(I think that's what it is), custom dues shouldn't cost you anything in the US. You'll pick up the package at the post office.

If you use Fedex or UPS you will be charged by them. I don't know how much.

You are always so great and helpful.

pathfinderca
05-26-2009, 06:23 PM
Chippy, I watched your youtube movies and read your posts which are both great. I've one question about the pdf reader. You mentioned that the pdf reader is evince. Can you reflow the pdf text with it? Is it possible to add real pdf reader on it? Thank you for your attention.

Alslayer
05-26-2009, 07:32 PM
Why do I want this device? I guess it is the 7" nokia tablet I have always wanted.

talaivan
05-26-2009, 07:35 PM
I read books on both a Nokia N800 and an iRex Iliad. I like the Iliad for the larger screen, but I can't see any difference between the two with regard to eye strain. I've tried other eInk readers as well as the Iliad and find that the contrast between the type and the background is inadequate. This is not true of backlit LCD's. I think the whole issue of eye strain is something concocted by the eInk people to sell more machines. Certainly it's something I've never noticed, and I've used both kinds of screen intensively. My worry about the Q7 is different -- does it allow you to turn the brightness down enough for reading in a dark room in bed? The new OS of the N800 does not, but fortunately someone wrote a program that does. It is extremely uncomfortable reading at night on a screen that is too bright.

mobelby
05-26-2009, 10:05 PM
Lowering brightness is critical to reading for extended periods on any LCD in my opinion. For example, the default brightness on my eeepc901 is way too bright and would both kill the battery too soon and be hard to use even for web browsing.

I'm hoping once Maemo is running that the brightness app from the N800 could be loaded onto the smartq 7 ??

rdelfin
05-27-2009, 12:03 AM
Oh, I did not know that "came about because it does not have" could mean that it was just a benefit.

It surely can. Glad I could help.

ColdSun
05-27-2009, 12:35 AM
I just received an email from the company I ordered the device from. They wanted to let me know they had some users who had success getting Windows CE 6.0 to run on the device using the SD card. Pretty cool.

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Run%20the%20Windows%20CE%20in%20SmarQ.htm

And here are screenshots of a very early build of Mer for the SmartQ 7. This isn't ready to be used as your OS on the SmartQ 7 quite yet, but its not far off either. I'm chatting with the Mer team every day to check out their progress. They really are a great bunch over there at maemo.org.

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Using%20the%20firmware%20of%20mer%20team.htm

rgeorg
05-27-2009, 01:55 AM
My worry about the Q7 is different -- does it allow you to turn the brightness down enough for reading in a dark room in bed? The new OS of the N800 does not, but fortunately someone wrote a program that does. It is extremely uncomfortable reading at night on a screen that is too bright.

I have 2 netbooks, one with a good screen brightness control (Asus Eee) and the other which doesn't really dim enough. It makes all the difference in the reading experience in dim/dark light. I find the Eee fine to read with, but the Classmate does irritate my eyes in a short time, as does a pbook + bright lamp.

I think that a good range of brightness control is a critical factor. In any case, this looks like a very handy device overall. Thanks to Chippy and ColdSun for all the detailed info - I feel as if I practically have the device in my hands (well, not quite:().

GuillaumeJay
05-27-2009, 03:43 AM
I just received an email from the company I ordered the device from. They wanted to let me know they had some users who had success getting Windows CE 6.0 to run on the device using the SD card. Pretty cool.

For such a seedy website, they seem to be great, don't they ?

Windows C.E. is perhaps even better (for me), i'm just not sure it will work well with 128MB. But i don't know anything about windows CE.


And here are screenshots of a very early build of Mer for the SmartQ 7. This isn't ready to be used as your OS on the SmartQ 7 quite yet, but its not far off either. I'm chatting with the Mer team every day to check out their progress. They really are a great bunch over there at maemo.org.


I was just going here to ask if this mer port was a wish, or something in progress.

I'm very interested in knowing about backlight setting. I'm using my PDA for reading at night, in bed, and my wife won't be happy if I light the whole room :)

klikklak
05-27-2009, 04:23 AM
I just read the thread on mer Q5/7 on talk.maemo, VERY interesting, this looks exactly like the type of hacking that I enjoy. Not the development part, but installing etc. I suppose I could live with the original software for the month or two before they come up with a proper mer release for it. The reason why I wasn't so interested in nokia tablets, even though I had a good experience with the 770, was that they were locked down and they didn't support older models with new software. With a community distro all this is solved, which makes me a happy man.

ruskie
05-27-2009, 04:52 AM
Youch just got my quote for Slovenia(you know in the EU not that much farther than germany, austria, italy) $270 plus the 20% VAT I'd have to pay and it's $330. I think I'll go with the openpandora that comes in at the same price point. Or maybe I'll go with the t91 depending if it's available. Or I just might go with the nokia N900.

Chippy
05-27-2009, 06:57 AM
Hi All.

My review on the Q7 is up now....
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-q7-review-a-touch-of-web-kindle-and-crunch

Chippy.

Chippy
05-27-2009, 07:02 AM
Youch just got my quote for Slovenia(you know in the EU not that much farther than germany, austria, italy) $270 plus the 20% VAT I'd have to pay and it's $330. I think I'll go with the openpandora that comes in at the same price point. Or maybe I'll go with the t91 depending if it's available. Or I just might go with the nokia N900.

I wonder why the delivery costs were so high.
I'm speaking with another reseller that's trying to get this into Europe. Will update if I hear anything concrete.

klikklak
05-27-2009, 07:02 AM
Ouch, 80$ for postage is harsh. Luckily for me that with postage to finland it only costs 230$, which is reasonable even after VAT which is quite harsh at 22%, all in all, I'm looking at around 200€, which is A-OK as far as I'm concerned.

Chippy
05-27-2009, 07:02 AM
I'm very interesting in knowing about backlight setting. I'm using my PDA for reading at night, in bed, and my wife won't be happy if I light the whole room :)
I've tested this for real. It goes really low. Perfect for browsing while wife sleeps!

Chippy
05-27-2009, 07:04 AM
I just received an email from the company I ordered the device from. They wanted to let me know they had some users who had success getting Windows CE 6.0 to run on the device using the SD card. Pretty cool.

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Run%20the%20Windows%20CE%20in%20SmarQ.htm

And here are screenshots of a very early build of Mer for the SmartQ 7. This isn't ready to be used as your OS on the SmartQ 7 quite yet, but its not far off either. I'm chatting with the Mer team every day to check out their progress. They really are a great bunch over there at maemo.org.

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Using%20the%20firmware%20of%20mer%20team.htm

Love the look of the Mer screenshots. The Q7 gets even more interesting if I can run Mauku on it! Can't wait for a Q8. Ti OMAP and Maemo 5 please!!

Chippy.

ruskie
05-27-2009, 07:07 AM
I wonder why the delivery costs were so high.
I'm speaking with another reseller that's trying to get this into Europe. Will update if I hear anything concrete.

I think because their delivery service considers Slovenia a high risk area(I so don't get that). Maybe they are confusing us with Slovakia...

Nate the great
05-27-2009, 07:20 AM
I just received an email from the company I ordered the device from. They wanted to let me know they had some users who had success getting Windows CE 6.0 to run on the device using the SD card. Pretty cool.

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Run%20the%20Windows%20CE%20in%20SmarQ.htm

And here are screenshots of a very early build of Mer for the SmartQ 7. This isn't ready to be used as your OS on the SmartQ 7 quite yet, but its not far off either. I'm chatting with the Mer team every day to check out their progress. They really are a great bunch over there at maemo.org.

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Using%20the%20firmware%20of%20mer%20team.htm

If you are really in contact with the company, could you please tell them I'd immediately buy a Q7 if it had WinCE.

Nate the great
05-27-2009, 07:23 AM
For such a seedy website, they seem to be great, don't they ?

Windows C.E. is perhaps even better (for me), i'm just not sure it will work well with 128MB. But i don't know anything about windows CE.


I know a fair amount about WinCE, and I love it. But due to the shortage of compatible software I think they should go for Windows Mobile instead.

ColdSun
05-27-2009, 07:53 AM
Nate,

I'll send them an email today and see if they can pre-load WinCE for you. There might be extra cost involved due to needing the SD card to load the OS. I'll let you know when they get back to me.

ghostyjack
05-27-2009, 09:59 AM
I work with LCD's for 8hrs a day and read all my books on an N800 and have don't seem to have experienced any of this eyestrain attibuted to LCD's.

Also this flickering mentioned earlier caused by the backlight, does this occur on both CCFL and LED backlights? If it only occurs with CCFL, then as I understand it, LCD manufacturers are stearing away from them in favour of LED backlighting, so this problem should disappear.

stasys
05-27-2009, 12:33 PM
As I understood, this device can not be used outdoor, so if you want to have a reading device - go to e-ink, or LCD REB1100 (Geb 1250). Until they will put transreflective screen into Q7 I'm not buying it.

Alslayer
05-27-2009, 02:08 PM
Great review chippy. I totally want this device. I used to have a samsung q1 but it was too expensive to throw around. The Smart Q7 is cheap enough that I won't get upset if it breaks. I might order one in a few weeks.

mobelby
05-27-2009, 05:48 PM
Coldsun and Chippy,
Thanks for all the info again and the very informative umpc portal review.
I'm trying to be patient and will wait a week or two until coldsun gets his and until there is a mer image that can be loaded onto the q7.

I'm thinking mer with calibre and fbreader loaded and the brightness turned right down would suit me just fine. The only other apps I'm really keen on would be a decent browser, pdf reader, dictionary and an offline copy of wikipedia. That becomes a pretty darned good solution that would hold the fort until the apple tablet/crunchpad/pixel qi tablet comes around.

I'm assuming you can charge this baby through the mini-usb, in which case a 12 hour life is adequate for a home based device.

wwang
05-27-2009, 06:22 PM
What video formats will it handle? Does it have the capability to do Divx playback without skipping? other formats it can handle or other video formats you know it can't handle?

Sonist
05-27-2009, 06:58 PM
Is there modulation (due to power-saving implementation, or when the brightness is reduced.)

In other words, can you see flicker (look to the side of the screen, so that it is in your field of vision?)

ColdSun
05-27-2009, 07:05 PM
It does play Divx, although it could be smoother. The device itself is capable of doing quite a bit better than its stock OS is doing, and we are hoping that the release of Mer on this device will allow optimzation of video and better performance. It plays audio very nicely (I believe it has a Wolfson audio chip), although it won't be replacing your video PMP player performance (especially with chips like the new CC1600 out there for PMPs) any time soon. Since I haven't received the device yet, I can't give you framerate and format specifics, but I think Chippy has done some testing in this regard. Chippy did say that it supports Divx and if videos are converted to work on this device that it performs adequately.

For those of you who want a really good PMP that has a TXT only ebook reader, MP4 Nation carries quite a few from 7" and smaller screen sizes. If video peformance and a low price point is your thing, check out the PMP devices with the China Chip 1600. There is a device called the Chuwi M70 Plus with 8GB and 7" screen that plays videos flawlessly and also has decent ebook functions, but only reads TXT format. The OS is NOT good at all. It has Cirris Logic Audio chipset and supposedly sounds really good. It can play 720p at 30fps and has a very long battery life. Of course, HD video makes the battery run out sooner, I think HD video will still last for 5-6 hours of battery life. Some of these devices have a transreflective screen as well. You just have to look into them and be ready to only use TXT format for ebooks. Here is an example of the PMP I mentioned:

http://mp4nation.net/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_49&products_id=300&zenid=758d1d08058d5ea5e16bb9fc60c50599

Regards,
Cold

mobelby
05-27-2009, 10:44 PM
Just had a look in a local electronics shop to get a size perspective on the Q7 and they had a bunch of 4 inch, 5 inch, 7 inch and 9 inch digital photo frames. The best of these was a 7 inch sony one, which by coincidence has exactly the same resolution as the Q7 - 800x480. That's a lovely size for an ereader screen.
By contrast I looked at the gps 4.3 inch screens to get an idea of what a nokia 810 might be like and that was too small for me. In fact the five inch photo frames also seemed too small and they've completely put me off the idea of a bebook mini. I think that space is now best occupied by the iphone (and competitors) - a device that you have with you wherever and whenever. I definitely want something a fair bit bigger than a 3.5 inch or 4.3 inch screen for home reading.

CBiggerstaff
05-27-2009, 11:54 PM
Thank you Chippy for the great review and info. I'm very excited about the Smart Q7. If I had a few more bucks right now I'd have ordered it already. Since I don't, I'm hopeful that once I do it will have reseller(s) in the US.
Does anyone know if it can surf or run locally Zinio? I have a couple magazine subs through them and am always looking for a way to read them in bed. I tried a netbook, but want to hold the device while laying on my back and the Netbook is too heavy and awkward.
FYI I had a slew of questions, but your great video and article answered those.

klikklak
05-28-2009, 04:29 AM
It's half kilo heavy right? Just how comfortable is it to hold in your hands when your lying on your back (in bed/sofa)? A cooler reader would be under 200g, but half a kilo might be too uncomfortable to read on like this. The ones with one, can you read on lying on your back or is it too uncomfortable?

Project
05-28-2009, 05:27 AM
I really wanto to buy this, but I would prefer buying from ebay.
As someone else pointed out it is available on ebay (item number 330333324676).

The ebay seller gives this description:

(Note:Thanks for the purchase of Smart Q7. First of all, this OS is in Chinese. You must be very familiar with Ubuntu Linux, and you can install OS in English. we can't supply Technical Services. At present, the Mer team is developing English OS.The English OS 0.12Ver is only a beta version. Please connect with mer team for more information or google them. Thanks a lot!.The AC PLUG is 200-240V.)

Does someone of you knows if this is the same version (regarding operating system and accessories) that www.eletroworld.cn is selling?

On the ebay auction page, they have this link (http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.12/mer-x86-generic-image-v0.12.vmdk.zip) to the English firmware, but I've read on this forum that mer is not available for this device yet.

To cut a long story short, do you think that is better to buy from ebay or from the eletroworld site?
I'm in Italy, and shipping from the ebay seller is going to be 55 USD

Thanks in advance for any reply

regards

Project

montsnmags
05-28-2009, 05:40 AM
It's half kilo heavy right? Just how comfortable is it to hold in your hands when your lying on your back (in bed/sofa)? A cooler reader would be under 200g, but half a kilo might be too uncomfortable to read on like this. The ones with one, can you read on lying on your back or is it too uncomfortable?

I don't know if this helps at all, but I just took three pbooks - a normal paperback, a trade paperback, and a hardback - each of about 400 pages, and weighed them upstairs on the kitchen scales. They came out as follows:

Paperback - 225g
Trade Paperback - 515g
Hardback - 680g

Sorry if it's no help. I just got curious, and thought I better share. :)

Cheers,
Marc

Chippy
05-28-2009, 06:26 AM
Since I haven't received the device yet..


Any news on your delivery yet? I havent seen any news of anyone getting a delivery yet. Do you have tracking status?

Gibbo
05-28-2009, 06:36 AM
I ordered mine last Sunday and they said it would be delivered in the next 3-4 days.

ylefox
05-28-2009, 08:34 AM
chippy, what do you think about the a680 tablet with android os from eletroworld

klikklak
05-28-2009, 10:19 AM
@montsnmags thanks, that did help. I didn't realise regular books were so heavy. Of course holding them might be easier, but still, weight probably won't be a problem.

TuxMeister
05-28-2009, 10:26 AM
Hey guys, first time around here! Between yesterday and today, I've been going through the entire thread. There's a very easy to follow (I think) installation guide for Mer 0.13 on the SmartQ5. Install instructions can be found here (http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#SmartQ5). Anybody up for a try? What do you say ColdSun (btw, nice to see you again)?

wwang
05-28-2009, 11:55 AM
I was wondering and watching Chippy's video. Web page loading looked reasonable.

And while web page loads are not awesome speedy, is there a comparison of web browsers for the same page? As in web page loading compared to an Iphone or itouch for the same page so we have a comparison? Any one have both an iPhone device and the Q7? If using an iphone, can you use it on your wifi network for the page load, so we have a reasonable comparison of load time?

wwang
05-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I am working up the guts to order one of these as an upgrade to a Palm TX. which is almost ideal for 90% of my needs.

I use plucker and sunriseXP to get web content to the Tx using a SD card.
I use warp to increase performance and increase battery life as needed.
I use tcmp to watch videos but some shows skip, which is annoying.

I browse some web pages but it can't load some larger web pages and live with that.

So based on what I see this should almost be a direct replacement with 7 inch screen? Am I missing anything?

ColdSun
05-28-2009, 12:28 PM
Chippy,
I received my tracking information for EMS - it should be here (Phoenix, AZ) within 4-5 business days.

Project,
I thought about your questions for a bit, and formulated my answer. So far my dealings with Eletroworld.cn have been extremely good. They were quick to respond to all of my questions, even after the sale. Not only that, they sent me emails out of the blue with updates on customizing the device and are providing a web page with links to different language packs, firmware upgrades, and other things. I know their webpage doesn't look like much, but they seem to me to almost be as excited about playing with the device as we are. I've already received my tracking information which means it has shipped. By no means is my relationship with them complete yet, but so far I'm very happy with the service. As for buying it from the eBay auction, well it does give you a little extra protection. At the same time, its still coming from China and its still being shipped via EMS (I think). They aren't selling you the english version. I believe Eletroworld is actually taking the time to load the english language pack for you before shipping it. Looks like its just a matter of choice, but I ordered mine from them based on Chippy's experience, which seemed good to me. :)

Tux,
Hey good to see you! Welcome to Mobileread and we hope you stick around to share your experiences with us. Once the Q7 arrives I'll likely spend a couple days doing my review with the stock OS and then I'll start toying with the Mer install. I look forward to doing that. I've been chatting with the Mer folks in IRC just about every day to see what the latest info is. Thanks for the link to the easy install. It should be exactly the same to install it on the Q7.

wwang
05-28-2009, 12:45 PM
So the Q7 is larger. Ideas of ways to carry the thing to protect it?
Screen protector is probably a must.
Holster or case suggestions are of course very important, because one of the things that make ebook readers convenient is the ability to have it handy to read or use at a moment's notice. Holster would be great, so it can be slim when we want to use it without the case, but safe and available at other times... I might have to break down and make a Kydex holster for it if I get one and can't find a good holster for it.

wwang
05-28-2009, 01:33 PM
how about remote access to the SD card for disk storage? The ability push data to the SD card across the network? As in a network share like in Windows, I would think SAMBA access?

klikklak
05-28-2009, 01:51 PM
http://www.eholster.com/ (http://www,eholster.com) I've thought about getting one of those for getting into augmented reality, but it can wait. I think it looks a bit too military and dorky to actually use, but I haven't found anything better.

Mockman
05-28-2009, 02:51 PM
From someone that does not know how these devices work. Could this device, the Q7, download books off the internet and then the book be read on the ereader program? Thanks!!

Nate the great
05-28-2009, 03:04 PM
From someone that does not know how these devices work. Could this device, the Q7, download books off the internet and then the book be read on the ereader program? Thanks!!

Yes, just not anything with DRM.

wallcraft
05-28-2009, 03:06 PM
Could this device, the Q7, download books off the internet and then the book be read on the ereader program? Assuming by "ereader" you mean the installed FBReader application, the answer is yes - providing the ebooks in question are DRM-free (i.e. are not encrypted). Unfortunately, most ebooks you buy from stores come with DRM. These are not readable on the Q7 unless you first strip the DRM.

ColdSun
05-28-2009, 03:06 PM
I was looking into some carrying cases. Maybe some of these would work:

http://cgi.ebay.com/For-7-Notebook-Black-Holder-Sleeve-Carrying-Case-Bag_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ11170QQihZ018QQitem Z280346443404QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsuppo rted

http://cgi.ebay.com/7-inch-Black-Sleeve-Case-Laptop-Carrying-Bag-for-Asus_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ168070QQihZ024QQit emZ370207408220QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsup ported

http://cgi.ebay.com/7-LCD-Monitor-Carrying-Case_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ21517QQihZ002QQite mZ120414795878QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsupp orted

I like the first one.

LeeH
05-28-2009, 03:45 PM
Well, I've been toying with the idea of getting a tablet-style reader - I generally read eBooks on my iPod with Stanza, but there are just so many cool new toys coming out that I feel I need to splurge (in a "must have new gadget" way, rather than "I have a definite and quantifiable need" way).

So, I've ordered a couple of these (one for me, one for a friend) and also a Cool-er, which looks quite funky.

Off to Montreal in August, so might have a look at the PRS-700 while I'm there, as I like the idea of being able to annotate onscreen (I'm an editor, so it'd come in very useful), and we're still lagging behind with availability in the UK, unfortunately.

ColdSun
05-28-2009, 04:52 PM
I went ahead and got a case for it. It was only $5 with free shipping so I'm not expecting anything special. Firgured I might as well try it though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching&item=320374484974&viewitem=&salenotsupported

TuxMeister
05-28-2009, 05:48 PM
ColdSun, I actually like the holster you bought. And not bad at all for $5.

You know, I'd love to have the Q7 to start playing around with it, but... there's just too much around the corner. Mind you Computex is right here, the Apple presentation coming up on the 12th, and some other conventions... there's a lot of expectation from a lot of manufacturers, both known and new so I'm actually struggling to wait until these events end to make my decision. And let me tell you, the more I read around here, the more difficult it is having to wait.

TuxMeister
05-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Oh, and... am I the only one to be (partially) in love with the Viliv X70 EX? I know it's off topic but, jeez... looks fabulous in the pictures xD.

mobelby
05-28-2009, 08:03 PM
Oh, and... am I the only one to be (partially) in love with the Viliv X70 EX? I know it's off topic but, jeez... looks fabulous in the pictures xD.

That's gorgeous but somehow I don't think that's going to be USD189.

My thinking is that the Q7 may be your stopgap utility device that is your predominant device for reading and 5 minute browsing over the next 12 months.

That will hopefully be good value for your USD189 and then you make the decision whether to move on to a viliv x70, or some similar device with eg a pixel qi screen.

I'm also looking through my unused inventory at home and seeing what I don't use that I can sell to make the USD189 seem even less expensive.

Sonist
05-29-2009, 03:49 AM
This may be a stupid question, but:

Why not the A700?

TuxMeister
05-29-2009, 06:27 AM
Sonist, that's true... it's beautiful. But I don't think it would perform so well as the screen resolution is bigger, but the processor is the same.

TuxMeister
05-29-2009, 06:30 AM
Does anybody know if MIPS processors perform better than ARM11?

rogue_ronin
05-29-2009, 06:41 AM
Just ordered one. No more Jetbook for me...

Anyone know what distribution of Ubuntu is on it, and what repositories it's using? I'm not familiar with ARM processors, nor the differences between them (ie: is this ARMv7, v5, what?)

I'm hoping that it's like a super-Nokia 770 that I can get working the way I like.

m a r

GuillaumeJay
05-29-2009, 06:41 AM
make my decision. And let me tell you, the more I read around here, the more difficult it is having to wait.

Me, i'm waiting for the early adopters to fix the bugs, write tutorials for maelmo or windowsce :)

The (possible) Apple tablet is going to be too powerful and too expensive for the need I have. (an ebook reader to replace my Axim x51, with backlight)

TuxMeister
05-29-2009, 07:06 AM
Jay, you can never know what they come up with, that's why I want to wait and make sure I don't make the wrong choice.

nostromo
05-29-2009, 07:12 AM
Have seen in posts that the q7 can have ce6 loaded, but that there may be limitations with wifi. Anyone know if wifi works under CE (or are there any plans to get it working).

Is major requirement for me - Thanks

rogue_ronin
05-29-2009, 08:49 AM
Answering my own question -- it's running Hardy from mojo.handhelds.org.

Looks like it should be pretty configurable -- I just watched the review on umpcportal. Screen rotation, compiling apps natively, everything should be possible.

I expect that Jaunty should be installable too.

I might run matchbox window manager on this -- anyone know what window manager it's running now? Are they using lxde? I ask because it's using pcmanfm to manage the desktop.

Anyway, waiting for my order confirmation. Hope it comes soon!

m a r

TuxMeister
05-29-2009, 09:12 AM
@rogue_ronin: WOW, I never heard of matchbox before but it looks neat, especially if we can get the XO OLPC theme on it, which is awsome. Can't wait for you to try it and share some vids/pics.

TuxMeister
05-29-2009, 09:36 AM
By the way guys, do you know what brand is the A700? Can't find it anywhere and a google search will bring up results about Sony's Alpha DSLR cams. Would want to learn more about it. The details on the site are just not enough. I wanna see it in action.

rogue_ronin
05-29-2009, 11:19 AM
Matchbox is used on a LOT of embedded linux. But I think it can work on the desktop, too. I might try it out tomorrow on my laptop, just to see if it works.

It's on my Nokia770; but I'm not running Mer or anything, just old OS2006 -- which is still pretty closed up, and hard to modify. (Well, for me.)

Yeah, I hope to find a good way to use matchbox -- I'm particularly interested in portrait-mode use. And I hope to learn enough to successfully install the new ARM Jaunty. Or Mer, but I hate Hildon -- at least now, on my Nokia.

m a r

Project
05-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Project,
I thought about your questions for a bit, and formulated my answer. So far my dealings with Eletroworld.cn have been extremely good. They were quick to respond to all of my questions, even after the sale. Not only that, they sent me emails out of the blue with updates on customizing the device and are providing a web page with links to different language packs, firmware upgrades, and other things.


Thanks a lot for your reply Coldsun.
I e-mailed Eletroworld today for a shipping quote to Italy and I've got a reply from them. It's going to cost me 241.3 USD to have it shipped to Italy, paying with paypal, so it's a bit less than the ebay auction, and since you've already bought from them, that's what I'll do too, maybe even today.

Does someone knows if it will be possible to use my Treo 750 with WM6 to surfe the net with the Smartq? (i've a data plan, so I'm not worried about cost)

TIA

Project

Sonist
05-29-2009, 02:12 PM
Sonist, that's true... it's beautiful. But I don't think it would perform so well as the screen resolution is bigger, but the processor is the same.

I wonder how much worse the performance would be? The bigger screen, and the higher resolution, combined with almost the same price, may outweigh a small performance hit.

Has anyone tried the A700 (or seen one?)

(Also, it doesn't mention any reader software, but loading FBReader shouldn't be much different than loading it on the Q7, should it?)

mpc1977
05-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Tux,
The A700 is made by Skytone. www.skytone.net.cn/en for more details

Eletroworld guy told me that they will start selling around mid-Jun.

I a mwaiting for that to release and jump in for either one.

~mpc

Sonist
05-29-2009, 03:03 PM
I wonder how much worse the performance would be? The bigger screen, and the higher resolution, combined with almost the same price, may outweigh a small performance hit....

I did a quick search for MIPS chips, and the only new one that I found running at 500 Mhz, is this XLP832 (http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/rim-releases-8-core-40nm-xlp-mips-32-bit-soccpu-at-2ghz-20090519/) multi-core thing, introduced in May.

If this is it (and I might be totally wrong,) then the A700 would be a pretty nice alternative to the Q7.

wwang
05-29-2009, 03:34 PM
I am now on the list of ordered. I just had my Palm Tx start to give me digitizer issues. So my Q7 should ship May 31-June 9.

I have a couple of PDB files I would love to see work I could send someone if they could also send some screen shots of how it looks that would be great!

So I am happy about
FBreader ebooks, web content via sunrisexp.
web browsing, ok, but not great, but that is ok.
great battery life. 5V input charging.

Looking for case. I ordered a $5 one that coldsun seemed to like too, but am looking for more.

Any one have synergy2 working on it or know if I can compile it for it?

mobelby
05-29-2009, 06:20 PM
That A700 is nice but a little too big for what I'd like. It's got the same screen as my asus eeepc901 (good for reading) but compared to the smartq I don't think there'll be any performance improvement, it's heavier and the quoted battery life is shorter.

Now, if money were no issue I'd go for the viliv x70 that's due out this year

ilovejedd
05-29-2009, 08:34 PM
Oh, and... am I the only one to be (partially) in love with the Viliv X70 EX? I know it's off topic but, jeez... looks fabulous in the pictures xD.
Just did some Googling (first time I've heard about the Viliv X70) and I'm in love, too. Well, totally in lust at the very least. Still, with the Viliv S5 coming in at $600, I'm not very optimistic about the X70's affordability. Not really sure I'd be willing to spend over $500 for something that'll be receiving somewhat rough treatment.

rogue_ronin
05-29-2009, 09:01 PM
I've been confirmed shipping from tomorrow also -- Dragon Boat holiday in China through Saturday. No tracking info yet.

Still hoping I can upgrade the memory somehow -- just need to know if the mainboard can handle it -- there are a lot of places here in Bangkok that can do the soldering (if necessary.)

Anyone know what the limits are?

m a r

ps: the shipping seems consistent (or I'm getting ripped off.) It's $35 from China to Thailand, which are reasonably close.

TuxMeister
05-30-2009, 04:24 AM
@ilovejedd: yeah, I'm pulled back by the price as well. That's why I'm waiting for all events to finish and then we'll have a bigger catalog to look at and surely some very amazin products that we don't even know about. I can't wait for Chippy's coverage to begin at Computex, I think he's gonna introduce us some very nice stuff. Plus, according to the mobility podcast, Viliv will be sending him a couple of things, so we'll see what they have prepared for us.

ilovejedd
05-30-2009, 09:28 AM
@ilovejedd: yeah, I'm pulled back by the price as well. That's why I'm waiting for all events to finish and then we'll have a bigger catalog to look at and surely some very amazin products that we don't even know about. I can't wait for Chippy's coverage to begin at Computex, I think he's gonna introduce us some very nice stuff. Plus, according to the mobility podcast, Viliv will be sending him a couple of things, so we'll see what they have prepared for us.
Haha, yeah, I'm waiting for the influx of device reviews, too. I really want the Viliv X70. For me, it looks to be the perfect device, if only it clocked in at around $500~600. Also looking forward to pricing and availability of "nettablets". Then there's the Skytone Alpha 700 which looks much, much sleeker than the Smart Q7. *sigh* Choices, choices...

TuxMeister
05-30-2009, 06:36 PM
Yeah, I love the diversity in the market but I hate it too in the same proportion. Makes my choosing process much more difficult and I can't stop thinking of the many manufacturers I don't even know about and might have a product that suits me. Darn...

rogue_ronin
05-31-2009, 03:17 AM
So far my dealings with Eletroworld.cn have been extremely good. They were quick to respond to all of my questions, even after the sale. Not only that, they sent me emails out of the blue with updates on customizing the device and are providing a web page with links to different language packs, firmware upgrades, and other things. I know their webpage doesn't look like much, but they seem to me to almost be as excited about playing with the device as we are.

Could you share the links? I'm expecting mine this week, and I'd like to learn as much as I can now. Maybe get a head start figuring out how to move to Jaunty ARM.

Thanks!

m a r

Gibbo
05-31-2009, 04:24 AM
Could you share the links? I'm expecting mine this week, and I'd like to learn as much as I can now. Maybe get a head start figuring out how to move to Jaunty ARM.

Thanks!

m a r

Rorue, check this link (http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/SmartQ_service.htm) is this what you looking for?

rogue_ronin
05-31-2009, 05:55 AM
Cool, Gibbo, thanks. Found that after I posted -- I was hoping for a secret stash!

On that note, is there anyone reading this that would be interested in working with me on getting Jaunty and GPE/Matchbox onto this? I'm okay with stuff, no programmer -- just not intimidated, but not sure about ARM at all.

I want to use this as a super-PIM, sketchbook, notepad, etc. as well as eBook reader (Gotta get FBReader 10!) The lightweight embedded apps should make the interface a lot more snappy, plus they do what I want, and they talk to each other. Having a full distribution underneath will let me add anything at all -- won't be as dependent on a single group of developers. It oughta be the best of both worlds. GPE has some great-looking apps that are very hard to find in Ubuntu/Debian (although lots of them are available, of course.

Eventually, I hope I get it to the point where I walk into my home, and everything syncs wirelessly without any action on my part -- ebooks, schedules, everything. If I get really good, and get an always-on server, anytime I'm in wifi range, I'll be synced.

Pop me a PM if you care to collaborate, or even have some good advice.

m a r

Project
05-31-2009, 05:56 AM
I've ordered the Smartq 7 from Eletroworld. I looked at the A700, but it's a little bit too heavvy (700 g). The Viliv (or however is called) look faboulus, but it's too expensive for me. The things I'm looking for are reading pdf files and reading blog posts.
I'll let you know when the thing arrives.

Regards

Project

rogue_ronin
05-31-2009, 07:36 AM
Okay, so it's ARMv6 (http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a6410&c=samsung_s3c6410). Which may or may not be good.

Jaunty straight from Ubuntu is for the v7 chips, I've read. But the fellow over here (http://www.omegamoon.com/blog/index.php), claims that Canonical has been asking for his efforts, which are for v5 and v6 machines.

We'll see, I guess. I'd also be pretty happy if mojo.handhelds.org did their mojo on Intrepid.

m a r

elmoglick
05-31-2009, 08:09 PM
This is a myth. For example reading in bad lightning conditions will not hurt your eyes so you have to buy glasses.

Sorry, that's not true. Reading in bad lighting can most definitely cause eye strain and ultimately hurt your eyes. Give your opthamologist a call and learn about it.

El

Lanx
05-31-2009, 09:44 PM
This device looks interesting can't wait to see the comparison between this and the always innovating touchbook.

I'd like to touch upon this wierd e-ink vs lcd myth. I'll also harken that i've been staring in front of a 12in computer crt monitor since i was 10 for the commodore 64, then a 14in screen for my firs pc, then 19in crt and later 22/24in lcds. I'm not blind and i've been doing this for 20years. I work in front of my 24in lcd for 8hours a day and then i browse the web or whatever for another odd 4-6 hours maybe play a game, whatever i'm a computer geek, my retina's have not been burned out from the evil LCD!

I'm pretty sure the only ppl saying e-ink won't cause eystrain are ppl who have astigmatism or ppl who jumped on the e-ink bandwagon and don't want to be left behind.

Alslayer
05-31-2009, 09:56 PM
I wish there was a community site for the Smart Q7. I guess this device is a little too obscure.

bjkel
06-01-2009, 05:00 AM
I am very interested in this device. I am another who prefers lcd over e-ink.

I've never used Linux Ubuntu before. Got a question, is it possible to get rid of the mouse pointer from the screen, maybe in the system settings or something?

markbond1007
06-01-2009, 05:59 AM
<sigh> if one of these were to come out with a transflective display, I would snap it up. I have the bookeen cybook Gen3, and am NOT happy with it to be honest.

tompe
06-01-2009, 06:31 AM
Sorry, that's not true. Reading in bad lighting can most definitely cause eye strain and ultimately hurt your eyes. Give your opthamologist a call and learn about it.


Why trust somebody that want t sell something to you?

I you look at the net you see that there is different opinions about it and it is a bit hard to know what to trust if you are not a researcher in the area. When I wrote what I wrote I was thinking about some web pages that claimed that. I have now seen web pages that claim other thing.

Here is a link

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=159098

that shows that the situation is unclear.

rogue_ronin
06-01-2009, 06:55 AM
I am very interested in this device. I am another who prefers lcd over e-ink.

I've never used Linux Ubuntu before. Got a question, is it possible to get rid of the mouse pointer from the screen, maybe in the system settings or something?

I cannot answer you definitively, but I read somewhere (in the last week, I think) that you can simply make it transparent.

But I don't remember how; when mine arrives, I'll give it a try.

BTW, more support that Jaunty will run on ARMv5 or better... (http://blog.canonical.com/?p=74)

m a r

TuxMeister
06-01-2009, 08:52 AM
@bjkel: in the old days, to change the cursor you would have to look for the gliph in the file system and then change it's share/color/transparency. I'm pretty sure that you would want at least something to come up, like a fairly thick dot, but not the pointer. Or the hand cursor.

gerraldo
06-01-2009, 09:50 AM
I wish there was a community site for the Smart Q7. I guess this device is a little too obscure.

At the moment yes, but my guess is there will be. This is the perfect little gadget for the geek! :D

bjkel
06-01-2009, 09:51 AM
I cannot answer you definitively, but I read somewhere (in the last week, I think) that you can simply make it transparent.

But I don't remember how; when mine arrives, I'll give it a try.

BTW, more support that Jaunty will run on ARMv5 or better... (http://blog.canonical.com/?p=74)

m a r

@bjkel: in the old days, to change the cursor you would have to look for the gliph in the file system and then change it's share/color/transparency. I'm pretty sure that you would want at least something to come up, like a fairly thick dot, but not the pointer. Or the hand cursor.

Thanks for the replies. Making it transparent would be good. I disagree about wanting something to come up though. I don't plan on attaching a mouse to it so I don't feel the need for a mouse cursor. At least I don't think I do. Hard to say till I play with it. :) However I think the cursor could start to annoy me in fbreader. I know you could move it down the corner out of the way, but would rather just get rid of it.

rogue_ronin
06-01-2009, 10:53 AM
At the moment yes, but my guess is there will be. This is the perfect little gadget for the geek! :D

I emailed the chinese suppliers today, and suggested they host a forum for english speakers.

I do not expect either a positive reply, or a reply. But you never know.

A forum will open somewhere, I'm sure -- it did for the EEE.

m a r

gchuang
06-01-2009, 12:11 PM
Since I import electronic goods from China and I love reading eBooks, this piqued my interest so I asked my sourcing agent to take a look to see if he can get me an unit to play with. Here is the deal...

Eletoworld is just a reseller.

The manufacturer of this product is a company in Beijing call "ZhiQi". Its website is www.smartdevices.com.cn. The entire website is in Chinese but here's some info that my agent gathered:

1) The device is really meant to be used as a PMP in China. It is pitched as a iPod Touch competitor by the manufacturer. The ebook functionality is strictly an add on. It comes with a PDF reader in the Chinese version.
2) The current English Ubuntu is done by a third party, possibly eletroworld. The manufacturer's own English version won't be ready until end of June.
3) They do not plan to have an American distributor. The device is not approved by UL nor FCC. And they don't plan to in the short term. So that probably means limited distribution in the US.
4) They are willing to sell me 10 units at a significant discount relative to eletoworld's prices. Email me if you want one. If enough people want it I can bring a shipment in via UPS and you guys can have it at cost plus your pro-rata piece of the shipping cost. But all the documentation will be in Chinese, so you need to savvy enough to do hack it without manual. No matter what I have already asked to have one Q7 and one Q5 sent to me for evaluation.

When I find out more I will post more data.

ColdSun
06-01-2009, 02:06 PM
I was given a tracking number last Wednesday for my order, but the tracking number still doesn't work on the EMS site and says there is no shipment with that number. I'll keep everyone posted...

mailman61953
06-01-2009, 02:13 PM
You can check on the USPS.com site for EMS Packages.

ColdSun
06-01-2009, 02:22 PM
It worked! Thank you, mailman61953. It has shipped.

wwang
06-01-2009, 04:26 PM
So in my comparisons

Comparison

Palm TX
128MB RAM
128MB ROM
312 MHZ Xscale Intel.
16bit color ( 64 k color)
320x480 over 4 inch diagonal screen
tft active matrix

SD card support for 2 GIG card max
WIFI
bluetooth
No GPS.

150.25 grams

The Q7 is looking pretty good. It covers most of the same things. And 7 inch screen.

Gibbo
06-01-2009, 04:52 PM
It worked! Thank you, mailman61953. It has shipped.

It's over a week since my order was confirmed and still waiting for tracking number :(

Gem
06-01-2009, 06:39 PM
What I really need is high quality a4 or larger color E-ink with good refresh, but untill that comes out, this will be a lovely stand it.

ColdSun
06-01-2009, 06:55 PM
Another interesting update from Eletroworld.cn showing the SmartQ 5 (same as 7 but smaller) running Android:

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Android%20on%20SmarQ.htm

rogue_ronin
06-01-2009, 09:32 PM
1) The device is really meant to be used as a PMP in China. It is pitched as a iPod Touch competitor by the manufacturer. The ebook functionality is strictly an add on. It comes with a PDF reader in the Chinese version.


That sort of makes sense. But what doesn't is that the current review of the media player (mplayer) suggests that it hasn't been compiled to use the video hardware. Are the original manufacturers using a different OS?


2) The current English Ubuntu is done by a third party, possibly eletroworld. The manufacturer's own English version won't be ready until end of June.


Well, hopefully it will be optimized for hardware, and can be updated. And, also hopefully, it will be easy to tweak.


4) They are willing to sell me 10 units at a significant discount relative to eletoworld's prices. Email me if you want one. If enough people want it I can bring a shipment in via UPS and you guys can have it at cost plus your pro-rata piece of the shipping cost. But all the documentation will be in Chinese, so you need to savvy enough to do hack it without manual. No matter what I have already asked to have one Q7 and one Q5 sent to me for evaluation.


Damn! I already bought mine. :D But if I love it enough, maybe I'll want another for a friend or a backup.

The device is not available here in Thailand, either. Nor have I yet found a portable bluetooth keyboard -- possibly because of the Thai keyboard incompatibilities.

I wonder if it would sell here...

m a r

shanghai123
06-02-2009, 04:09 AM
Just got my SmartQ 7 yesterday directly from a supplier in Shanghai (for RMB 1200, around USD 170), and I have to say that this is a great device!

For reading ebooks, i might stick with my Hanlin V2, but for reading mangas and comic books, this is the perfect device!

Does anyone know a way to read an image folder in portray mode? For the moment, to read my comic books and mangas, I have to convert all my collections to PDF to read it with Evince...

Cheers,

Nico

Melf
06-02-2009, 05:58 AM
For reading ebooks, i might stick with my Hanlin V2, but for reading mangas and comic books, this is the perfect device!


Interesting ! Can you perhaps post some pictures to see how manga/comic books looks like on the Q7 ? Im considering getting one as a manga reader myself :)

profnachos
06-02-2009, 10:12 AM
I submitted an order yesterday via Paypal late yesterday, and have yet to hear from them. Is that pretty typical?

They were pretty quick to give me a quote (within minutes), but now it has been a full day in their timezone without a word.

imaredr
06-02-2009, 10:32 AM
I ordered mine on 26 May. I received notice that payment was made and that they needed my shipping address confirmed. Up until that time they were very quick. I have not heard from them since. I emailed them this morning to find out the status of my purchase.

Ellen

P.S. I posted too soon. This email just came in:

we will send your SmartQ 7 in 2 business days.
May 28--31 is chinese Dragon Boat holiday.
after post, we will give you tracking number to check shipment.

celtica96
06-02-2009, 11:13 AM
3) They do not plan to have an American distributor. The device is not approved by UL nor FCC. And they don't plan to in the short term. So that probably means limited distribution in the US.


I asked this question of e World (eletroworld.cn) before I would place my order.

e World replied with the attached photograph, which is like the one shown on Chippy's site (http://www.umpcportal.com/gallery/v/SmartQ7/SmartQ7-11_001.JPG.html) where the FCC and CE logos appear below the words SmartQ 7 MID.

A similar photo appears on the manufacturer's website. See the 7th one down in this list: http://www.smartdevices.com.cn/information/news/200905/31-367.html.

That said, I don't know that the device is actually certified.

I have sent an inquiry into the FCC and will post back when/if I get a reply.

skyfish
06-02-2009, 11:19 AM
Another interesting update from Eletroworld.cn showing the SmartQ 5 (same as 7 but smaller) running Android:

http://www.eletroworld.cn/nb/Service/Android%20on%20SmarQ.htm

Q5 was the predecessor of Q7, and was widely viewed as a failure in China, mainly because it did not meet expectation. Because of Q5, many Chinese users are very skeptical toward Q7.

I think Q7 might become a great device, if the company can keep its promises and continue support it.

by the way, "Q" is the first letter of Chinese phonic: qi, which means machine, so "smart Q" means smart-machine (or wise-machine, which is a closer translation of the company's chinese name)

skyfish
06-02-2009, 12:10 PM
Just got my SmartQ 7 yesterday directly from a supplier in Shanghai (for RMB 1200, around USD 170), and I have to say that this is a great device!

For reading ebooks, i might stick with my Hanlin V2, but for reading mangas and comic books, this is the perfect device!

Does anyone know a way to read an image folder in portray mode? For the moment, to read my comic books and mangas, I have to convert all my collections to PDF to read it with Evince...

Cheers,

Nico

How do you like it? I posted questions about Q7 on a chinese forum. I got a negative attitude overall (none of them have used Q7 though). Most people cited Q5's disappointments. I would like to see more user's opinions on it, especially on the build quality, reliability, and softwares support.

shanghai123
06-02-2009, 12:39 PM
How do you like it? I posted questions about Q7 on a chinese forum. I got a negative attitude overall (none of them have used Q7 though). Most people cited Q5's disappointments. I would like to see more user's opinions on it, especially on the build quality, reliability, and softwares support.


Honestly, I completely understands the general negative attitude towards the SmartQ 7:

- It is supposed to be a mobile internet device but
--> without proper keyboard, internet experience is very limited
--> there is a virtual keyboard, but when we use it, it uses almost half of the screen space...
--> there is no flash which means no Youtube, Dailynotion or here in CHina no PPlive or Youku...

- Overall performances are quite poor
--> This version of Ubuntu is very limited, and installing other programs is limited
--> video reading is limited. I managed to read Dvix and Mp4 in so-so quality (few lags but readable)
--> The device is slow and has some bugs with tilting screens, reboots...
--> the touch screen is not perfect. When trying to draw on RgbPaint, it does not always answer

As you see, the device is far from being perfect, but for us ebooks/manga/comic books/magazine readers, the device is really great

-I have been waiting for a long time for a color ebook reader and here we are!
-Autonomy is really great. After first recharge, I have been using the device for more than 7 hours (for reading, playing videos, testing performances, surfing the web...) and it is still at about 25%
-FBReader is great to read books
-As most of my books are in PDF format, I mainly use Evince
- PDF can be read in landsacpe mode (perfect for magazines or comic books) or in portray mode (for mangas and books)
-scrolling can be made with the buttons or directly on the touch screen

Personnaly, I will use this device for:
- reading mangas, comic books, magazines, some books in low light conditions
- reading rss feeds in the train/plane
- Picture frame

I bought an 8G SDHC card and it works great. I will go to an electronic market tomorrow to try to find a pouch.

I will post tomorrow some pictures of the device while reading comic books and mangas.

Cheers,

Nico

gchuang
06-02-2009, 02:44 PM
I have learned long ago that never to trust the statements of Chinese manufacturers on any claims pertaining to FCC, CE, UL, RoHS......

I would seriously doubt that they went through the trouble of FCC since they don't even have an US distribution channel setup. But then I could be wrong. Maybe someone can check with the FCC just to make sure.

The volume purchase price they gave my sourcing agent was 1030 RMB each for 10 units of Q7. I guess shanghai123's 1200 RMB retail price is not so bad!

As for flash support. I don't know for sure. On the manufacturer's website it had publicity photo using local YouTube imitator Toudou. I guess I will know when my Chinese units get here. The unit that I asked to send to me will have Chinese OS.

pathfinderca
06-02-2009, 03:13 PM
How much are you going to sell for each unit when you get your 10 units? I am interested. Thank you for your attention.

pathfinderca
06-02-2009, 03:15 PM
I tried it for my son. On a 7" you need to joggle the pictures and the words are really small. Now he is reading manga on a 10" tablet which is perfect.

Jim-Beam
06-02-2009, 03:17 PM
Hi skyfish:

Have you tried this forum?

www.zhiqi.com.cn

(It's also in Chinese)


How do you like it? I posted questions about Q7 on a chinese forum. I got a negative attitude overall (none of them have used Q7 though). Most people cited Q5's disappointments. I would like to see more user's opinions on it, especially on the build quality, reliability, and softwares support.

profnachos
06-02-2009, 03:45 PM
- It is supposed to be a mobile internet device but
--> without proper keyboard, internet experience is very limited
--> there is a virtual keyboard, but when we use it, it uses almost half of the screen space...
--> there is no flash which means no Youtube, Dailynotion or here in CHina no PPlive or Youku...

- Overall performances are quite poor
--> This version of Ubuntu is very limited, and installing other programs is limited
--> video reading is limited. I managed to read Dvix and Mp4 in so-so quality (few lags but readable)
--> The device is slow and has some bugs with tilting screens, reboots...
--> the touch screen is not perfect. When trying to draw on RgbPaint, it does not always answer


Thanks for the review.

I placed my order and had a second thought about buying the A700 instead which I thought I could use as a miniature laptop as well as a ebook device. But if the A700 is just a bigger version of Q7 with all its flaws, then I probably made the right decision to stay with Q7.

wodin
06-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Honestly, I completely understands the general negative attitude towards the SmartQ 7:

- It is supposed to be a mobile internet device but
--> without proper keyboard, internet experience is very limited
--> there is a virtual keyboard, but when we use it, it uses almost half of the screen space...
--> there is no flash which means no Youtube, Dailynotion or here in CHina no PPlive or Youku...

- Overall performances are quite poor
--> This version of Ubuntu is very limited, and installing other programs is limited
--> video reading is limited. I managed to read Dvix and Mp4 in so-so quality (few lags but readable)
--> The device is slow and has some bugs with tilting screens, reboots...
--> the touch screen is not perfect. When trying to draw on RgbPaint, it does not always answer

As you see, the device is far from being perfect, but for us ebooks/manga/comic books/magazine readers, the device is really great


Ahh! The search continues. I know the technology exists to build a reasonably priced UMPC/Tablet PC but no one seems interested. I thought this might be it. But alas! I don’t need another ebook reader, I already have four counting an HTC Touch and a Nokia N800. What I wanted was a decent mobile internet device. The N800 comes close, but the screen is too small for my old eyeballs to read the average web page. Now an N*** with a 7 to 10 inch screen would be nearly perfect!

quant
06-02-2009, 04:55 PM
I think because their delivery service considers Slovenia a high risk area(I so don't get that). Maybe they are confusing us with Slovakia...
huh? Maybe you are confusing Slovakia with Somalia ...

profnachos
06-02-2009, 04:55 PM
I ordered mine on 26 May. I received notice that payment was made and that they needed my shipping address confirmed. Up until that time they were very quick. I have not heard from them since. I emailed them this morning to find out the status of my purchase.

I submitted an order about 24 hours ago, and haven't heard a thing. How soon after submittal did they send you a confirmation email? I've got absolutely nothing.

I wonder at what point I should start threatening them.

ColdSun
06-02-2009, 06:56 PM
I had no problem with them. There was a slight delay due to some holiday, but I have no issue with that. They kept in contact with me the whole time. On the other hand, I hear this site and UMPCPortal have generating a lot of interest for this device. They could be a little more busy than expected.