View Full Version : MobileRead Unite! Create a Logo for DRM-Free(liberated) ePUB


=X=
04-28-2009, 12:31 PM
This is a spin off of the thread
.ePUB extension should be reserved for non-DRM eBooks (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45224)

The idea is to Brand DRM-Free ePUB to help reduce confusion on ePUB out there.

If a reader sees this ICON then they know this ePUB can be read on any device that supports ePUB.

Not having any graphic talent myself I'm asking the MobileRead community to participate and develop an ICON/Logo to brand the DRM-Free ePUB. This will help new readers and existing readers easily identify a DRM-Free ePUB.

BTW I would also like to call it "Liberated" ePUB.

=X=

tirsales
04-28-2009, 12:32 PM
the text "ePUB" with an upwards-directed thumb in front? (yeah, not much of a graphic talent too ;) )

DigitalFeonix
04-28-2009, 03:10 PM
Um... look no further than http://threepress.org/epub/logos

Valloric
04-28-2009, 03:14 PM
Um... look no further than http://threepress.org/epub/logos

Maybe it's just me, but those are really ugly.

=X=
04-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Good suggestions.

I was thinking along the lines if ePUB is going to be a world dominating format, we ought to create an Icon without using a language, but more of a universal graphic icon.

=X=

netseeker
04-28-2009, 03:42 PM
I was thinking along the lines if ePUB is going to be a world dominating format, we ought to create an Icon without using a language, but more of a universal graphic icon.
ePub in a nice, modern serif font with a globe inside (or instead) of the upper part of the "P" maybe?

Moejoe
04-28-2009, 04:37 PM
maybe a lock that is open as part of the font styling?

Jellby
04-29-2009, 06:38 AM
Um... look no further than http://threepress.org/epub/logos

For what is worth, I already use this one for my ePUBs:

http://threepress.org/static/images/epub/epub-logo-bw-book.png

but it's not specific for DRM-free ePUB.

wallcraft
04-29-2009, 07:31 AM
I already use this one for my ePUBs How about the same logo but using the word freePub with the "fre" in outline only. The free refers to DRM-free, not necessarily no-cost, but I think people are used to different meaning of free these days. I also like .fpub for the DRM-free ePub filename extension and a freePub logo works well with that.

Jellby
04-29-2009, 07:40 AM
How about the same logo but using the word freePub with the "fre" in outline only. The free refers to DRM-free, not necessarily no-cost, but I think people are used to different meaning of free these days. I also like .fpub for the DRM-free ePub filename extension and a freePub logo works well with that.

I think I can do that... if I find a matching font or draw an f and r :D

OK, something like this, maybe?

DaleDe
04-29-2009, 11:20 AM
I think it should be explicit. Something like

=X=
04-29-2009, 11:25 AM
Those look good.

Some of my ideas.


An open book with the globe of the world in the middle hovering over the book.

An open book with the liberty torch hovering over the book (aka DRM-free "Liberated" ePub)
An open book with a symbol that represents unity.

tompe
04-29-2009, 11:32 AM
I think it should be explicit. Something like

I first read it as a free ePub book with DRM...

Jellby
04-29-2009, 11:47 AM
I think it should be explicit. Something like

How about these? Now with the real font (Steelfish (http://www.dafont.com/steelfish.font?nb_ppp=50&text=ePUB)).

I'm working with the SVG and I could do versions of the other variants too.

DaleDe
04-29-2009, 12:17 PM
How about these? Now with the real font (Steelfish (http://www.dafont.com/steelfish.font?nb_ppp=50&text=ePUB)).

I'm working with the SVG and I could do versions of the other variants too.

I think the word DRM is too small. I made it the size I did for a reason. Make one hollow and one black DRM and see what the response is.

Dale

netseeker
04-29-2009, 12:23 PM
How about these? Now with the real font (Steelfish (http://www.dafont.com/steelfish.font?nb_ppp=50&text=ePUB)).

I'm working with the SVG and I could do versions of the other variants too.
The word "free" should be a little bit curved like the book-page behind it. Can you try that? I guess it would look better if the words would really look like imprinted.

Jellby
04-29-2009, 12:58 PM
I think the word DRM is too small. I made it the size I did for a reason. Make one hollow and one black DRM and see what the response is.

I see, it didn't look so small at full size :D

The word "free" should be a little bit curved like the book-page behind it. Can you try that? I guess it would look better if the words would really look like imprinted.

Yes, I thought the same, but the PUB part is not curved anyway, and it should be, a bit. I don't know if I can curve it with Inkscape, I'll try... For the moment here you have a skewed version.

kovidgoyal
04-29-2009, 01:01 PM
Just a thought, but if we want/hope epub will become ubiquitous, does it really need a logo associated with both a book and its name? Take for example commonly used PDF logos, they dont have either the word PDF or pictures of documents in them.

Jellby
04-29-2009, 01:21 PM
I don't know if I can curve it with Inkscape

Yes, I can, see below (I curved the PUB too) :D

Just a thought, but if we want/hope epub will become ubiquitous, does it really need a logo associated with both a book and its name? Take for example commonly used PDF logos, they dont have either the word PDF or pictures of documents in them.

No, of course. A logo can be anything nice. I was just taking what I use for a logo in lack of anything better... but having the word ePUB in the logo helps for those that don't know the logo.

Jellby
04-29-2009, 01:32 PM
I think this is better.

netseeker
04-29-2009, 02:07 PM
Yes, I can, see below (I curved the PUB too) :D
No, of course. A logo can be anything nice. I was just taking what I use for a logo in lack of anything better... but having the word ePUB in the logo helps for those that don't know the logo.

I think this is better.
Jellby, thank you. I think the curved one looks better. :)
But the problem is the base line of the words. "PUB" doesn't use the same base line as "Free"...

Ankh
04-29-2009, 02:19 PM
No reason to give up on colour. Red for "DRM", green for "Fre"...

mjh215
04-29-2009, 04:45 PM
What about a stylized drawing of a Klein bottle, green for non-drm, red for drm'd, in larger views can have "ePub" subscripted and offset to the image... The imagery could represent information without boundaries. As to the shape of the Klein bottle, I'd recommend something closer to one of these glass bottles (http://www.kleinbottle.com/images/3%20botsclaserlqm.jpg) then those typically shown for mathematic representations...

-MJ

DaleDe
04-29-2009, 05:48 PM
What about a stylized drawing of a Klein bottle, green for non-drm, red for drm'd, in larger views can have "ePub" subscripted and offset to the image... The imagery could represent information without boundaries. As to the shape of the Klein bottle, I'd recommend something closer to one of these glass bottles (http://www.kleinbottle.com/images/3%20botsclaserlqm.jpg) then those typically shown for mathematic representations...

-MJ

Ah, you are beginning to border on a judgment. DRM can be neither good nor bad if you expect the logo to be used. It has to be just information. Placing a judgment on it that non-DRM is good and DRM is bad will cause no publisher to use it.

Dale

mjh215
04-29-2009, 05:56 PM
Ah, you are beginning to border on a judgment. DRM can be neither good nor bad if you expect the logo to be used. It has to be just information. Placing a judgment on it that non-DRM is good and DRM is bad will cause no publisher to use it.

Dale

Ok, change it to green and blue? You didn't mention if you liked the design idea...

-MJ

JSWolf
04-29-2009, 06:12 PM
In my honst opinion, I'm finding the logo to be rather boring.

JSWolf
04-29-2009, 06:13 PM
No reason to give up on colour. Red for "DRM", green for "Fre"...
If you use red and green, it'll look like a Christmas ornament.

Madam Broshkina
04-29-2009, 07:59 PM
This is what I came up with.

Ankh
04-29-2009, 08:34 PM
If you use red and green, it'll look like a Christmas ornament.

Was it that obvious? Christmas wish fulfilled...

BTW, nice signature. Colourful. :)

JSWolf
04-29-2009, 10:25 PM
What I really dislike about these logos is that they have to stick it in my face that the ePub is without DRM. And that takes up space and makes the logos look ugly.

Why not an ePub logo for DRM free ePub that doesn't push the fact in your face and one for ePub with DRM. Neither will say DRM free or not. All that will happen is that they will be different and that's how you will know.

JSWolf
04-29-2009, 10:26 PM
This is what I came up with.
Can you post versions without the liberated bit in the logos please?

JSWolf
04-29-2009, 10:28 PM
Was it that obvious? Christmas wish fulfilled...

BTW, nice signature. Colourful. :)

Since most ePub we'll be reading will be on non-color eink screens, how about grayscale?

And thank you very much!

Ankh
04-29-2009, 11:23 PM
Why not an ePub logo for DRM free ePub that doesn't push the fact in your face and one for ePub with DRM. Neither will say DRM free or not. All that will happen is that they will be different and that's how you will know.

I am somewhat skeptical about Adobe's adoption of "ePUB with DRM" logo. DRM is unpleasant subject, and usually presented as a fact of life, something not worth mentioning.

It is up to DRM-free content to emphasize the difference.

=X=
04-30-2009, 12:35 PM
This is what I came up with.
Well I really like the art work!

My opinion is we should refrain from using any words like "ePUB".

For several reasons
1) This is an international logo
2) Logos get re sized and if this logo gets reduced to 16x16 or 8x8 the text will be illegible and the logo will not be recognized.

=X=
04-30-2009, 01:04 PM
Okay here is what I was thinking of (Warning These are really ugly but the concpet is there, I hope people can see past my artistic skill)

The logo are 100x100 and 50x50

The idea behind one logo are as follow

Book+liberty torch:
Liberated ePUB (without DRM)

Book+globe (Format to dominate the world):
One eBook format to be accepted and used across the contents

Book + unity logo:
It's the Mayan Unity sign

Essentially one eBook format that unites: publishers + eReading devices + countries around the world.

Jellby
04-30-2009, 01:09 PM
Well, I have the "final" versions of these logos. Note I'm not suggesting they are the best possible, they're just a suggested modification of the logos already available at http://threepress.org/epub/logos. I did versions with and without shadow. For the moment they are in http://djelibeibi.unex.es/files/freepub.htm, but I don't know how long I'll keep them there, is there enough interest to upload them to the wiki or something?

Personally, I'm not sure the DRM tag is a good idea, it seems to say the opposite from what we want to say.

PS. The SVG versions have a wrong page size (I couldn't get it right with Inkscape) and need the Steelfish font.

=X=
04-30-2009, 01:09 PM
This is what I came up with.

I really like the 2nd Icon the "e" in the globe silhouette.

I wonder if you could remove the "PUB" and "Liberated" and put the e globe around a book silhouette.

Like this. With your artistic skills I think you can make it look really nice.

=X=

=X=
04-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Well, I have the "final" versions of these logos. Note I'm not suggesting they are the best possible, they're just a suggested modification of the logos already available at http://threepress.org/epub/logos. I did versions with and without shadow. For the moment they are in http://djelibeibi.unex.es/files/freepub.htm, but I don't know how long I'll keep them there, is there enough interest to upload them to the wiki or something?

Can you show some small scale Icons. I'd be interested in seeing how they would look if the are srunk to 50pts or smaller.


Personally, I'm not sure the DRM tag is a good idea, it seems to say the opposite from what we want to say.

Yes I agree, that's part of the reason why I have been calling int "liberated" ePUB.

=X=

Jellby
04-30-2009, 01:26 PM
Can you show some small scale Icons. I'd be interested in seeing how they would look if the are srunk to 50pts or smaller.

Yes, reload the page. At the bottom there are 100px and 50px versions. At 50px they look terrible, but the idea (or my idea :D) was not to use them as small icons for files, but as a logo to put in web pages, covers, books, etc. At 100px I think they are fine.

DaleDe
04-30-2009, 02:24 PM
Can you show some small scale Icons. I'd be interested in seeing how they would look if the are srunk to 50pts or smaller.


Yes I agree, that's part of the reason why I have been calling int "liberated" ePUB.

=X=

Liberated implies that it was previously not liberated which implies that DRM was removed or it was in prison somehow. That is not the image that should be projected either. DRM free is better than liberated IMHO. unencrypted would be another choice although longer.

Dale

Ankh
04-30-2009, 05:29 PM
Book+globe (Format to dominate the world):
One eBook format to be accepted and used across the contents

One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them... :cool:

rhadin
04-30-2009, 06:51 PM
I like the idea of wanting a universal logo but you are making it much too complex; it is a simple message that you want to get across. The logo should be (1) universally recognizable even by someone who cannot read an alphabetic language and (2) can be made small enough to be placed next to a book in a list such as the book list you get at Fictionwise.

Try something simple, like a stylized e with a minus sign to indicate DRM-free and the same stylized e with a plus sign to indicate DRM. As much as I would like all books to be available in DRM-free ePub, that is not realistic over the short-term, so what we should want is simply an icon that tells us whether the particular book is DRM-free or DRM-laden.

I also think certain things are unnecessary. For example, it seems to me to be unnecessary to spell out that the format is ePub. It is also unnecessary to use words to indicate DRM-free.

Elfwreck
04-30-2009, 07:10 PM
Maybe the stylized e-with-red-crescent logo with wings for no DRM, or attached to a lock (or an anchor) for ePub with DRM.

I don't like "plus" for "with DRM" and "minus" for "without DRM;" it implies that DRM-free books are lacking something, rather than that they are more accessible.

The symbol needs to be:

Scalable to 25x25 pixels or so, preferably 16x16,
Not dependent on color,
Functional for people who don't speak/read English (a letter or two is fine; a word is not),
Elegant enough to appeal to people (ebook providers, ranging from publishing houses to bloggers who offer their archives as ebooks) who don't give a damn about accurate file labels or the DRM issues.

gerraldo
04-30-2009, 10:57 PM
just a quick attempt... :)

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3230/epub01.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9666/epub02.jpg

Ankh
04-30-2009, 11:05 PM
just a quick attempt... :)

Dangerously similar to the Internet Explorer icon.

tirsales
05-01-2009, 02:06 AM
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them... :cool:And actually quite fitting with DRM - "And in the darkness bind them" ;)

Jellby
05-01-2009, 06:07 AM
Maybe something as simple as this. Choose one for DRMed and the other for DRM-free, change colours at will.

nrapallo
05-01-2009, 09:02 AM
I lack the artistic skill to make these more polished, but they express simple ideas of infinity (endless possibilities) perhaps encircled (like a globe) i.e ePub: the ultimate ebook format for the whole world.

There's the normal weight one, double infinity (also know as "Rose of Four Petals (http://steiner.math.nthu.edu.tw/ne01/tjy/dynamic/contants/rose4-osc.html)"), as well as a thick one and thin one.

The last one, "thin double infinity", is a spoof of Adobe's .pdf three spiked logo! ;)

pking36330
05-01-2009, 09:32 AM
Well, I have the "final" versions of these logos. I did versions with and without shadow. For the moment they are in http://djelibeibi.unex.es/files/freepub.htm

I like the logos and since I've followed this thread I know what they mean, but I think the first time a n00b sees that logo on Fictionwise or Manybooks and adds it to their cart only to discover that the "FreePub" isn't free at all but is $9.95, they'll be mad and confused. I know you wedged 'DRM' in there, but it 'Free' has one meaning in online shopping and 'DRM-less' won't equate to 'Free' in most shoppers minds. Just my FreeThoughts.

Jellby
05-01-2009, 03:14 PM
I lack the artistic skill to make these more polished, but they express simple ideas of infinity (endless possibilities) perhaps encircled (like a globe) i.e ePub: the ultimate ebook format for the whole world.

Not quite the same, but something based on your idea. I'd say the one with the ring should be for DRMed ePUB, since it looks "locked".

netseeker
05-01-2009, 03:18 PM
Not quite the same, but something based on your idea. I'd say the one with the ring should be for DRMed ePUB, since it looks "locked".
I like it.

yekim54
05-01-2009, 04:57 PM
My two cents:

nrapallo
05-01-2009, 05:22 PM
Not quite the same, but something based on your idea. I'd say the one with the ring should be for DRMed ePUB, since it looks "locked".

Nice. I like the "locked" idea. It's the first thing that came to mind when I saw it (it look entangled)! ;)

Could you do another version with a little larger background rectangle (being smaller than the extent of the double infinifty makes it a bit "busy", for me. :) )

Madam Broshkina
05-01-2009, 08:02 PM
I am trying for simplicity here:

Jellby
05-02-2009, 05:00 AM
Could you do another version with a little larger background rectangle (being smaller than the extent of the double infinifty makes it a bit "busy", for me. :) )

Here you go.

tompe
05-02-2009, 05:50 AM
I am trying for simplicity here:

That one was the clearest yet and probably no possibility to misunderstand it.

netseeker
05-02-2009, 05:58 AM
I am trying for simplicity here:
I wonder how they will look at a size of 32x32, 22x22 or 16x16. I can't imagine that they could be well usable as icons...

nrapallo
05-02-2009, 07:08 AM
Here you go.

Thanks, they sure are colourful! :)

Madam Broshkina
05-02-2009, 12:24 PM
Here are some smaller versions.

gerraldo
05-02-2009, 10:24 PM
aiming for simplicity too... :)

Daithi
05-04-2009, 10:14 PM
This doesn't look that great because I only have MS Paint on my netbook, but you should get the idea. I'll try using Photoshop to clean it up tomorrow.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/mystai/freepub.gif

Daithi
05-05-2009, 10:30 AM
Hopefully I didn't screw this up and the attachments will show below. So I'm hoping this displays four images. They're all based on the image from the ePub site with the top looking like a unlocked padlock, and they're shown in various sizes (150x150, 50x50, 25x25, and 16x16).

28466

28467

28468

28469

Madam Broshkina
05-05-2009, 09:44 PM
One of the Logo's is infected with DRM. One is not.

Jellby
05-07-2009, 12:46 PM
I took the liberty of sending the modifications the threepress logos to them, and it sees they liked it enough to upload them: http://www.threepress.org/epub/logos :D

ilovejedd
05-07-2009, 01:28 PM
Hopefully I didn't screw this up and the attachments will show below. So I'm hoping this displays four images. They're all based on the image from the ePub site with the top looking like a unlocked padlock, and they're shown in various sizes (150x150, 50x50, 25x25, and 16x16).
I think these are pretty good. They're simple and easily identifiable. A locked version would be a good logo for DRM'd ePub but I can see how companies adding DRM might not want to use such a logo. :p

Another thought, maybe you can increase the distance in the open lock? In the 16x16, the padlock looks almost closed.

Steven Lyle Jordan
05-08-2009, 03:12 PM
I personally think tying the logo and the lock elements together is confusing, especially if DRM becomes a non-issue. I still maintain that establishing a universal ePub (or Open Book) logo is needed before you try to create variations on it.

rogue_ronin
05-18-2009, 01:32 PM
I think the key is the 'Pub' part of ePub.

What is a commons?

An area that intersects multiple personal domains.

m a r

ahammer
05-21-2009, 06:26 PM
what about a open book for drm free and a close book for drm locked.

Logseman
02-24-2010, 09:19 AM
Why don't you make an image game with the padlock and the e? I know I should be showing the idea more than saying it, but I sincerely lack the design skills.

ghostyjack
02-24-2010, 10:01 AM
There are some pretty good designs and I think they would work well as a logo, but I'm have some difficulty seeing them used as icons for epub files.

What is the differentiator between the DRMed and DRM-free files so that the OS can recognise them and assign the correct icon. As far as I can tell all epubs look the same to the current generation of OS's as the development of ebook files has not progressed as far as say music files that the OS can display information about them. And untill the OS can tell the difference between the two, this won't work.

Seeing as alot of people would associate the logo with the icon, why don't you just make a decent epub symbol that can be used as both a logo and an icon that is easily recognised as such and stop worrying about whether the file is DRM'ed or not.

=X=
02-24-2010, 04:23 PM
This thread started a while back even before ePUB really started taking off. The problem I saw arising was this. ePUB might be an open standard but it fell short in one major area "Defining DRM"

This posses a real compatibility problem. Even though ePUB is an "Open Standard" ePUB + DRM is not. ePUB + DRM is just as bad as any propriatry solution or in my view even worse than a proprietary solution. This is because a vendor might claim they support ePUB but add their own DRM. And lead to confustion.

Well lest FF to the present, and sure enough that is exactly what we have. We now have two different version of ePUB + DRM, with a third one on it's way.


The idea was that we created an icon, more along the idea of branding that tied to OS functionality, to denote a true open standard. If you as a customer saw this Icon on the store front or Device Vendor you would know this ePUB would work without any confusion on your part.

The first part was to established two brand one with no DRM one with DRM, where the DRM was truly an open standard not owned by any one company.

=X=

ATimson
02-25-2010, 12:40 AM
We now have two different version of ePUB + DRM, with a third one on it's way.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to me like the two existing versions are technically identical - the difference is how they derive the key used to encrypt the document. (The account-based option gets the key from Adobe's server based on the account ID, while the password-based option is a function of name/password - in B&N's case, credit card number.)

=X=
02-25-2010, 09:53 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to me like the two existing versions are technically identical

I'm pretty sure they are different, I<3cabbages has the encryption details on his blog.

But really that is not the point I was making earlier. My point was really from a user experience point of view. Say that ePUB was the same if they where the same, like the kindle and mobipocket to the user they are not compatible because a device that supports mobipocket will not read kindle books and vise versa.

In the B&N case they licensed their DRM to adobe so now they can read both DRM formats but other devices like the Sony can only read adobe.