George Orwell's works are still in copyright in the UK as he died less than 70 years ago. But they are out of copyright in Australia, where copyright is life + 50 years (Orwell died in 1950). If I obtain 1984 from Project Gutenberg in Australia, then reformat it, is it OK for me to post the result here?

The source comes from Australia.
I'm in the UK.
And the MR servers are in Canada.

So which country's copyright laws apply?

:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:

The source comes from Australia.
I'm in the UK.
And the MR servers are in Canada.


Yes, MobileRead can host it.

For MR: Canada.
For You: UK.

You would download a book which is obviously copyrighted in the UK and then share it. I can't recommend you to do that - even if it would be ok for MR itself.

It would be legal for MR to host it, since it is out of copyright in Canada.

It won't be legal for you to upload it, if you are in the UK. But if you travel to Australia or Canada and upload it from there, then it's fine (I guess).

But if you travel to Australia or Canada and upload it from there, then it's fine (I guess).
This is interesting; can someone confirm Jellby's assumption?

If I travel to Australia, download it there, reformat it and then upload from Australia, then I assume that would be OK?

But if I download it in the UK from the Australian server, reformat in the UK, then travel to Australia and upload it there--that would not be OK?

Is it even legal for me to download it whilst in the UK?
Is it legal for me to download it but not reformat it?

:wall:

It is a rather feeble reason to travel half way around the world. :D

If I travel to Australia, download it there, reformat it and then upload from Australia, then I assume that would be OK?

I think yes.

But if I download it in the UK from the Australian server, reformat in the UK, then travel to Australia and upload it there--that would not be OK?

I think not (therefore I am not... no, hold on, that's not what I mean).

Downloading it when you are in the UK is, I believe, not legal. The rest would be legal.

All of this is assuming this does not belong to "fair use" and whatnot.

You are infringing the copyright if you download it in the UK. You could be sued by the copyright holder for that infringement.

What you do with it after downloading it isn't relevant. Just downloading it while you're in the UK is illegal. But, I think, not criminally illegal, only a civil crime - the police won't come after you about it.*

Is it even legal for me to download it whilst in the UK?
Is it legal for me to download it but not reformat it?



*But IANAL. Don't blame me if you download it and the police break down your door five minuets later. :-)

You may like to know that RWood has already uploaded a version of 1984:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11207

Also cbell posted a version: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43651. Books with year titles can be hard to find by a search.

You may like to know that RWood has already uploaded a version of 1984:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11207
Also cbell posted a version: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43651. Books with year titles can be hard to find by a search.
Oh, you are so mean! ;)

First we tell ShellShock that it might not be legal for him to download a version of 1984 and then you show him these great versions...just one click away...:droolm:

ShellShock, this is not just a problem in the UK. The US copyright laws are even weirder. For example, It is legal to upload James Branch Cabell's works in Canada, but only his pre 1923 works in the US. As a US citizen, I can only upload/download what would be legal in the US. However last year, I could not upload anything of James Branch Cabell to MobileRead (Canada) because he had not reached life + 50, even though the pre 1923 works were in the US public domain...

I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR?

Global travel and the internet really makes a mockery of national copyrights. :rolleyes:

I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR?

I guess so. But I'm not sure if you could bring the files back to the UK (I'd say you can, just as you can bring legally bought books), and you won't be allowed to download them from the UK anyway.

However, intentionally travelling to another country in order to do something that is forbidden in your home country might be illegal in your country. Think of children prostitution, euthanasia or abortion...

I found out today that I will probably be travelling to Toronto on business in June. I assume once there I could download Orwell from the Canadian or Australian servers, do the reformatting and then upload to MR?

Global travel and the internet really makes a mockery of national copyrights. :rolleyes:

You can upload it to MR regardless - it's pefectly legal to store on MR's Canadian server. The only person who would be technically breaching copyright in uploading from the UK would be you personally, and it's a purely "technical" offence which really nobody is going to care two hoots about.

I think you'll find, though, that we already have pretty much all of Orwell's work in nicely-formatted versions.

I think you'll find, though, that we already have pretty much all of Orwell's work in nicely-formatted versions.

Possibly--but the version of Burmese Days I downloaded used hyphens instead of em-dashes, single quotes instead of opening and closing quotes, and single quotes instead of right apostrophes. Also there are blank lines between paragraphs, which I do not personally like as it wastes precious screen space.

In the Gutenberg source the em-dashes are represented by double hypens, which is easy enough to convert to em-dashes. The single quote marks are more difficult, but I have automated that somewhat so I'm hopeful that quotes are correctly balanced, but I need to proof read first.

Possibly--but the version of Burmese Days I downloaded used hyphens instead of em-dashes, single quotes instead of opening and closing quotes, and single quotes instead of right apostrophes. Also there are blank lines between paragraphs, which I do not personally like as it wastes precious screen space.

In the Gutenberg source the em-dashes are represented by double hypens, which is easy enough to convert to em-dashes. The single quote marks are more difficult, but I have automated that somewhat so I'm hopeful that quotes are correctly balanced, but I need to proof read first.



Don't forget that the Gutenberg ideal is to produce a book that is as close a copy of the original as possible - not to change it to a modern version....


Though I wonder what the date of production is on the books you are looking at ?

I also notice that instead of italics, ALL CAPS are used; I can't imagine that ALL CAPS was used in the source book. I believe this was an early convention used for Gutenberg, which has since been replaced by underscores.

The Gutenberg text I'm working on seems to have lost information in the transition from paper to plain text:

Opening and closing quotes are converted into single quotes; this applies to both double and single.

Italics become ALL CAPS. Thus it is no longer possible to tell which characters, if any, were capitalised in the original.

There is no distinction between apostrophes and other quote characters.

So what I am trying to do is to restore this lost information, to make a more enjoyable reading experience on my Reader (as opposed to Gutenberg which is trying to preserve texts for posterity, so is more concerned to use a format--text--that is as portable and universal as possible).

Hi,

This is my first post even though I've been lurking around this wonderful forum for a few weeks now.

I live in Canada. Knowing that MR's servers are in Canada, I'm assuming that I can download anything from this site without worrying about copyright violations.

But what happens when I travel to a country with different copyright rules? For example, I travel a lot to the US and of course I bring my PRS-505 with me. Am I violating copyright laws by carrying eBooks that may not yet be public domain in the US but are already PD in Canada?

Thanks.

-jcf

I don't believe so. You'd only be violating copyright by downloading while you were in the US. This is, however, such a trivial issue that I honestly wouldn't worry about it.

Why would downloading from the UK (or US) be different from buying a physical book (public domain in Canada) from a Canadian book store while being in the UK?

Because legally, when you buy a physical book, the transaction takes place at the location of the bookstore, whereas when you download, it's your location that matters. That's why eBook stores impose "geographical restrictions" on who can buy certain books, but physical bookstores don't.

Because legally, when you buy a physical book, the transaction takes place at the location of the bookstore, whereas when you download, it's your location that matters. That's why eBook stores impose "geographical restrictions" on who can buy certain books, but physical bookstores don't.

Yes, I understand the "legal" thing, I was just discussing it from a "common sense" point of view ;)

Would be legal to have someone download public domain books in Canada and then sending a CD (just charging for the shipping and physical support) to Europe? Then I see some reasons for MobileRead to offer CDs or DVDs with the books it hosts...

From a practical perspective I completely agree you that the whole thing is a nonsense. I don't know if your cunning plan would be legal or not, I'm afraid ;).

Would be legal to have someone download public domain books in Canada and then sending a CD (just charging for the shipping and physical support) to Europe? Then I see some reasons for MobileRead to offer CDs or DVDs with the books it hosts...

What an interesting question. I have no idea. For that matter, I'm not sure whether it would be legal to print the books in Canada, and then sell them abroad by mail order.

It certainly wouldn't be legal for someone in the UK to then make more copies of the items in the CD. Say, but copying them to their ebook reader. I think it would be legal to read them 'directly' off the CD on a computer, as I vaguely recall some right to temporary copies.

Copyright certainly does need a refresh, A shame that in the US it's currently being done by class-action instead of by legislation.