View Full Version : geographic restrictions at Fictionwise


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Margrete
04-19-2009, 02:58 PM
I'm really really annoyed at the moment. I just wanted buy a couple of ebooks from fictionwise to read tonight and now they've added geographical restrictions only for sale for those in US and Canada on some books. This must be very resent because the book I wanted was released on the 7th and didn't have it then. I know this because I bought Turn Coat by Jim Butcher on the 7th and it also has geographic restrictions now and didn't when I bought it. How am I now going to get the ebooks I want when I don't live in the US. Any ideas? This has totally ruined my day

:swear:

Gibbo
04-19-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm really really annoyed at the moment. I just wanted buy a couple of ebooks from fictionwise to read tonight and now they've added geographical restrictions only for sale for those in US and Canada on some books. This must be very resent because the book I wanted was released on the 7th and didn't have it then. I know this because I bought Turn Coat by Jim Butcher on the 7th and it also has geographic restrictions now and didn't when I bought it. How am I now going to get the ebooks I want when I don't live in the US. Any ideas? This has totally ruined my day

:swear:
Just change your country to US make your purchase then change it back.

Margrete
04-19-2009, 03:41 PM
Just change your country to US make your purchase then change it back.

Won't work since it's keyed to the billing address of my credit card. I had the wrong address for my credit card once (didn't notice I wrote the wrong one) and then I couldn't get transaction done. I got an error with regards to my address not matching or something.

Idoine
04-19-2009, 03:45 PM
I read a post where it was said to use Micropay (that is put money on micropay account, and then use Micropay to pay things that are geographically restricted)...

Gibbo
04-19-2009, 03:46 PM
Won't work since it's keyed to the billing address of my credit card. I had the wrong address for my credit card once (didn't notice I wrote the wrong one) and then I couldn't get transaction done. I got an error with regards to my address not matching or something.

Sorry forgot to add that it only works if you have money on your micropay account, I've done it myself a few times.

Margrete
04-19-2009, 03:47 PM
Sorry forgot to add that it only works if you have money on your micropay account, I've done it myself a few times.

I'll try that, thanks :)

T3_reader
04-19-2009, 07:10 PM
The same thing also happened to me this evening while trying to purchase books at ereader.com. Is this the first major change implemented by Barnes&Noble, the new owners of Fictionwise?

Purchasing through an account that doesn't allow Fictionwise to detect that one does not live in the US or Canada is not a good solution. If you ever run into some kind of support issue and they can use IP-addresses or whatever to see that you are not a US or Canadian citizen, you're going to be screwed. It is always better to stop buying at a company when they clearly indicate they are not interested in your business...

CleverClothe
04-19-2009, 07:27 PM
Purchasing through an account that doesn't allow Fictionwise to detect that one does not live in the US or Canada is not a good solution. If you ever run into some kind of support issue and they can use IP-addresses or whatever to see that you are not a US or Canadian citizen, you're going to be screwed. It is always better to stop buying at a company when they clearly indicate they are not interested in your business...

The problem with that idea is that it isn't Fictionwise driving this decision, it is the publishers. Although I am sure Fictionwise wants to cover their posteriors, I am also sure that they don't mind you buying from them.

If you want to boycott someone, it will have to be the publishers.

wallcraft
04-19-2009, 07:28 PM
It is always better to stop buying at a company when they clearly indicate they are not interested in your business... It is some publishers who are requiring this, and they are doing so because regional restrictions are in their contracts with authors. The entire thing is crazy, and many publishers (practically all the UK publishers for example) seem to have decided to ignore the issue and see if it will go away. US ebook stores used to ignore the issue too, but some publishers stopped selling to them so now they have rules that are as lax as they can make them without the publishers getting mad at them again. FictionWise might have less flexibility under Barnes and Noble, but I don't see it as likely that they will go after previous purchases because of geographic restrictions. This is particularly the case for eReader ebooks, where they control the DRM.

T3_reader
04-19-2009, 07:35 PM
I am pretty sure that I can order printed books from Amazon for which the ebook versions are now no longer available to me.

I actually cannot imagine an author asking a publisher to please not sell his work in Europe or some other region.

wallcraft
04-19-2009, 07:48 PM
I am pretty sure that I can order printed books from Amazon for which the ebook versions are now no longer available to me. Yes. This is because the paper book is deemed purchased from the shipping location, but the ebook is deemed purchased from your PC. I already told you it was crazy.

I actually cannot imagine an author asking a publisher to please not sell his work in Europe or some other region. It is routine for an author to separately sell the US and UK rights to the same book to different publishers. This maximizes the authors profits for paper books. It makes less sense for ebooks, but the same geographical restriction language is used for them too.

sirbruce
04-19-2009, 08:58 PM
Ahh, but why does Amazon UK let me buy UK editions of Harry Potter and have them shipped to me in America?

Xenophon
04-19-2009, 09:20 PM
Ahh, but why does Amazon UK let me buy UK editions of Harry Potter and have them shipped to me in America?

As wallcraft said earlier, when you buy from Amazon UK the sale is considered to take place in the UK. So a UK edition is perfectly fine; where it gets shipped after that is something the publisher cannot and should not be able to control.

By comparison, when you purchase an eBook the location of the sale is a much more difficult question. Does the sale happen at the eBook retailer's server? At the eBook retailer's corporate headquarters (possibly or probably a very different location than the server's location)? At your location? Who knows!

For some reason the publishers or perhaps whoever wrote the contracts with the publishers considers the customer's location to be the relevant locus for the eBook sale. And that leaves the publishers having to require their retailers to do the geographic restriction thing. It also makes me understand why Baen insists on universal (but non-exclusive) eRights.

Xenophon

Margrete
04-20-2009, 07:59 AM
Purchasing through an account that doesn't allow Fictionwise to detect that one does not live in the US or Canada is not a good solution. If you ever run into some kind of support issue and they can use IP-addresses or whatever to see that you are not a US or Canadian citizen, you're going to be screwed. It is always better to stop buying at a company when they clearly indicate they are not interested in your business...

you might be right that its probably not a good idea if something happens but when I don't have any other options (except buying the paperback which takes at least a week from I order it untill I get it) then I'll use it untill I get in trouble which I probably will as I wrote an email to fictionwise asking about it.

Blue Tyson
04-20-2009, 11:31 AM
As wallcraft said earlier, when you buy from Amazon UK the sale is considered to take place in the UK. So a UK edition is perfectly fine; where it gets shipped after that is something the publisher cannot and should not be able to control.
...
For some reason the publishers or perhaps whoever wrote the contracts with the publishers considers the customer's location to be the relevant locus for the eBook sale. And that leaves the publishers having to require their retailers to do the geographic restriction thing. It also makes me understand why Baen insists on universal (but non-exclusive) eRights.

Xenophon

Different things for different formats is crazy, because going by the latter, they shouldn't send you a dead tree book, either.

'Arbitrage' by buying the cheaper version is done in paper, as well, so strange. If we pay money to postage companies we have less money for books, so even nuttier.

Blue Tyson
04-20-2009, 11:33 AM
I'll try that, thanks :)

Can you let us know if that works, the Micropay trick?

Thanks,

bt

Xenophon
04-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Different things for different formats is crazy, because going by the latter, they shouldn't send you a dead tree book, either.

'Arbitrage' by buying the cheaper version is done in paper, as well, so strange. If we pay money to postage companies we have less money for books, so even nuttier.

The difference may indeed be crazy. But for dead tree versions, it all turns on the combination of the legal definition of where the sale takes place -- the "locus" of the sale, in legalese -- and the concept of the "first sale" rule. I don't pretend to understand how the locus of a sale is determined, but I observe that for physical stuff it generally appears to be the location of the store-front (for in-person sales in a shop) or the warehouse (for catalog/internet sales).

After that sale has taken place, the "first sale" rule comes into play. A very brief (and probably over-simplified) version of this rule is that although a seller may choose to use relatively arbitrary conditions when deciding whether or not to sell to you, they cannot impose restrictions on your use of the product after the sale. Thus, they can sell only in a limited geographic region, but they cannot restrict you from shipping elsewhere post-sale.

So, with dead-tree books the locus of the sale is the warehouse. As long as the warehouse is in the correct geographic region, the geographic conditions have been met. Shipping after that is beyond the control of the publisher (or author/agent/copyright-owner/whatever).

The thing that strikes me as being weird is the idea that the locus of sale for an internet transaction is the customer's computer/device!

Xenophon

Idoine
04-20-2009, 11:58 AM
:angry: Well, with the 30% rebate on Fantasy books, it bothered me today !
I made a filter on Fantasy books, and went along the list, and 75% of my choices were geographically restricted !
I finished with the purchase of n2 of a trilogy, and went to Mobipocket site to purchase n1 and 3 (of course more expensive on this site, but all 3 were in proportion !) :smack:
I did this for one series, I won't for more !
So these restrictions, for a impulsive/compulsive like me, are a good one for my purse, but a bad one for Fictionwise !

Jellby
04-20-2009, 12:02 PM
The thing that strikes me as being weird is the idea that the locus of sale for an internet transaction is the customer's computer/device!

Not even that. It seems it's the bank that issued the credit card (!). From what I've read here, if I'm Spanish, have a French credit card, live in the UK and try to buy from a US e-store, they'll assume they are selling in France.

Blue Tyson
04-20-2009, 02:23 PM
The thing that strikes me as being weird is the idea that the locus of sale for an internet transaction is the customer's computer/device!

Xenophon

Yep, that's stupid, because the same logic means that the sale happens at your house, or wherever you have a book sent to, if mail ordering.

If media companies want to fall on their swords, fine by me, though.

T3_reader
04-20-2009, 04:07 PM
65% of the books on my eReader wishlist are no longer available to me. Any suggestions on companies that offer ebooks without such restrictions, with a reader available for Palm?

I really hope Fictionwise can set up additional storefronts to circumvent the restrictions and still offer competitive prices.

Margrete
04-20-2009, 04:42 PM
Can you let us know if that works, the Micropay trick?

Thanks,

bt

yes, it worked :D I changed my profile address country at fictionwise to US and bought books with micropay after buying micropay dollars

I hope the address change at fictionwise works for using paypal as well so I can get the 100% rebate thing for the lord of the rings trilogy. Only being able to use micropay is going to make me use more money if I'm not careful

pdurrant
04-20-2009, 04:58 PM
I haven't had any problems buying from fictionwise with paypal.

yes, it worked :D I changed my profile address country at fictionwise to US and bought books with micropay after buying micropay dollars

I hope the address change at fictionwise works for using paypal as well so I can get the 100% rebate thing for the lord of the rings trilogy. Only being able to use micropay is going to make me use more money if I'm not careful

RWood
04-20-2009, 04:59 PM
Revise your Fictionwise address to a US address and pay with PayPal. You can fund your PayPal from your credit card. I have a friend that uses this method and she has had no problems to date.

Margrete
04-20-2009, 05:40 PM
I haven't had any problems buying from fictionwise with paypal.

Revise your Fictionwise address to a US address and pay with PayPal. You can fund your PayPal from your credit card. I have a friend that uses this method and she has had no problems to date.

Thanks, that makes me relieved :)

Blue Tyson
04-20-2009, 11:45 PM
Thanks.

Robotech_Master
04-21-2009, 05:22 PM
Steve Pendergrast writes, over on TeleRead (http://www.teleread.org/2009/04/19/ereader-enforcing-geographical-restrictions/#comment-1041090),
This has nothing to do with the B&N acquisition, it has been in the works for months. This is being enforced at the aggregator level. All retailers are theoretically doing this now. If not, they may find themselves cut off from their source of ebooks soon.

The publishers are not to blame here, the rights are carved up geographically and if the publishers in the USA dont enforce the restriction they are potentially infringing contracts of publishers in other countries.

This does not affect any multiformat titles. It affects about 1/3 of the encrypted titles.

Blue Tyson
04-22-2009, 12:29 AM
Steve Pendergrast writes, over on TeleRead (http://www.teleread.org/2009/04/19/ereader-enforcing-geographical-restrictions/#comment-1041090),

Right. So it has nothing to do with bookshops, authors, or publishers.

Want to buy some prime Florida island real estate, do you? Or sell Missouri riverland flood insurance?

:)



If he is implying there is stuff in copyright acts that says 'you may not sell ebooks to people in other countries', I've read ours, that is complete crap.

HarryT
04-22-2009, 04:14 AM
Right. So it has nothing to do with bookshops, authors, or publishers.

Please read what he said again. It's the PUBLISHER who requires that the retailer does this.

If he is implying there is stuff in copyright acts that says 'you may not sell ebooks to people in other countries', I've read ours, that is complete crap.

It has NOTHING TO DO with copyright law. It's a matter of the distribution contract that the publisher has with the author, which often contains geographical restrictions. Eg, many books have different UK and US publishers.

araj
05-01-2009, 03:08 AM
Can you let us know if that works, the Micropay trick?


It doesn't work for me :-( They look at my credit card billing address (Sri Lanka) whether or not I'm using it. Has anyone had any success buying via PayPal?

Blithering idiots. Just for that, so annoyed am I, the $100 that was going their way is now headed right at Baen.

HarryT
05-01-2009, 03:16 AM
It works just fine for me. I buy Micropay credits via PayPal, and then buy books using Micropay.

Blue Tyson
05-01-2009, 04:43 AM
Please read what he said again. It's the PUBLISHER who requires that the retailer does this.



It has NOTHING TO DO with copyright law. It's a matter of the distribution contract that the publisher has with the author, which often contains geographical restrictions. Eg, many books have different UK and US publishers.

Exactly what I said. He said not the publisher's fault. To quote "The publishers are not to blame here".

I disagreed. Which is exactly what you just did. :)

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:04 PM
It works just fine for me. I buy Micropay credits via PayPal, and then buy books using Micropay.


It's a way around the geographical restriction - but the discounts only apply when paying by credit card ..... so I can't take advantage of the 9 year anniversary 'sale' ....

I've just had to abandon a purchase of 10 books because everyone of them was geographically restricted. As 8 of them are part of the Discworld series by a UK author; and this is the FIRST time it has happened to me, I'm annoyed to say the least ....

HarryT
05-27-2009, 01:07 PM
It's a way around the geographical restriction - but the discounts only apply when paying by credit card ..... so I can't take advantage of the 9 year anniversary 'sale' ....


You can pay by PayPal. That gets you the discount, and works fine. I've done it myself.

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:08 PM
You can pay by PayPal. That gets you the discount, and works fine. I've done it myself.


Interesting, I've just had a look in my cart and it definitely states "discount with credit card" - but I'll give it a go, thanks Harry...

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:18 PM
Gone through a paypal transaction, but I'm left not knowing if the payment has gone through....there is no confirmation, and I'm left back at the cart with no buttons available to press....

GAH !!!!!

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:22 PM
Okay - no transactions have gone through paypal ..... is it because I've used a credit card option ? rather than a bank account ?


GAH !!!!


WHICH IS MOST EVIL - DRM or Geographical Restriction !!!!!!!!

HarryT
05-27-2009, 01:24 PM
Were you actually taken to PayPal, Geoff? You should have had to log on to your PayPal account, click a "Make Payment" button, and then a "Return to Merchant" screen to come back to FW.

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:27 PM
Were you actually taken to PayPal, Geoff? You should have had to log on to your PayPal account, click a "Make Payment" button, and then a "Return to Merchant" screen to come back to FW.


Oh Yes, I definitely logged onto Paypal, into my account and made the transaction using one of the loaded credit cards - I'm wondering if that is the problem.
I was then returned to Fictionwise cart, no "by-your-leave" - and I have ERROR: The eBook(s) marked below cannot be purchased with the credit card you are trying to use, because those books have geographic rights restrictions by the publisher.. No option to do anything except BACK and remove the offending books from my cart .....

Do you use your credit card? or a nominated bank account - though even the bank account will have a UK identity ...

HarryT
05-27-2009, 01:29 PM
That may indeed be the problem. I use PayPal with my bank account, which doesn't appear to have any "geographical" identity. I've most definitely used PayPal to buy geographically-restricted books, and it's worked for me.

Sorry that you've had such problems :(.

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Interesting, and also annoying.

The Back option on my Fictionwise display took me to Paypal, not to the cart. Choosing my bank account also failed .....


Double GAH !!!!!!

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:44 PM
So....

I have recently paid for a subscription, that allows me to buy at a discount.

I cannot purchase the books I want to, or I lose the value of the discount option..

It may not be Fictionwise's fault - but they are not acting in my best interest as a club customer.

(Harry, not your problem - you have no need to say sorry - though confirmation you can still use paypal successfully would be of some small comfort)...

Dave Berk
05-27-2009, 01:47 PM
So....

I have recently paid for a subscription, that allows me to buy at a discount.

I cannot purchase the books I want to, or I lose the value of the discount option..

It may not be Fictionwise's fault - but they are not acting in my best interest as a club customer.

(Harry, not your problem - you have no need to say sorry - though confirmation you can still use paypal successfully would be of some small comfort)...

Just a thought: Maybe you should try to remove your credit card completely from your account & then try again to buy with paypal....

I know that you needed to do similar things in Amazon if you wanted to buy ebooks for the kindle from outside the US.

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 01:50 PM
Dave, thanks for that suggestion.

I need to calm down a bit before I make the next step, or I'll blow a gasket and do something I might regret .....

HarryT
05-27-2009, 01:53 PM
Just a thought: Maybe you should try to remove your credit card completely from your account & then try again to buy with paypal....


That may well be the issue. I don't have a credit card registered with FW at all.

mtravellerh
05-27-2009, 01:56 PM
Dave, thanks for that suggestion.

I need to calm down a bit before I make the next step, or I'll blow a gasket and do something I might regret .....

Blowing a gasket almost always has very detrimental effects!

pdurrant
05-27-2009, 02:09 PM
I found recently I had to set up an account at paypal.com and give a us address beforre I could purchase everything at fictionwise. Oddly enough, having a UK card funding the paypal account didn't cause a problem.

Oh Yes, I definitely logged onto Paypal, into my account and made the transaction using one of the loaded credit cards - I'm wondering if that is the problem.
I was then returned to Fictionwise cart, no "by-your-leave" - and I have ERROR: The eBook(s) marked below cannot be purchased with the credit card you are trying to use, because those books have geographic rights restrictions by the publisher.. No option to do anything except BACK and remove the offending books from my cart .....

Do you use your credit card? or a nominated bank account - though even the bank account will have a UK identity ...

Ankh
05-27-2009, 02:17 PM
I know that you needed to do similar things in Amazon if you wanted to buy ebooks for the kindle from outside the US.

Please elaborate. I am all ears... :)

GeoffC
05-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Did Fictionwise warn us this change was to take place ?

Dave Berk
05-27-2009, 02:41 PM
Please elaborate. I am all ears... :)

Have fun. (http://www.nerdgirl.com/2009/03/20/amazon-kindle-outside-the-us/)

Rick P.
05-27-2009, 05:49 PM
It seems that we're all agreed that the current situation doesn't make much sense. As an employee of The-Plot-Thickens (http://www.the-plot-thickens.com) (an ebook store specializing in fiction) I can confirm that the restriction is imposed on retailers by publishers.

I can understand why authors may want to release the same book to different territories via different publishers, but it seems to me that it's time that the online community is treated as a separate territory in its own right. In other words, a single publisher should be responsible for all ebooks across the world.

If you're dissatisfied with the way things are currently then I'm sure that the publishers will find your feedback useful. At the end of the day the customer drives the whole industry, so if you're struggling to buy their books then they need to know. Why not send them an email? You could even send the author an email. Most authors have their own website with a contact page.

geertm
05-27-2009, 06:35 PM
If you want to buy geographically restricted books at Fictionwise and also get the rebates from those books take a look at www.entropay.com.
The Entropay card is a virtual Visa debit card that has no registered billing address, so any address is accepted as a valid billing address.
I registered for a card yesterday and it was activated today.
I can confirm that the card does work at Fictionwise. You only have to change your Fictionwise country to US, and you can use your regelar address and name to pay with the Entropay card. The card is accepted without a problem.

This is of course just my personal experience.

Geert
The Netherlands

wallcraft
05-27-2009, 07:05 PM
I can confirm that the restriction is imposed on retailers by publishers. This isn't going to go away because of pressure from readers. Some retailer needs to think outside the box and find a legal way to sell US-rights ebooks to anyone who wants them. I assume at least one has explored the option of suing the publisher, but all have implicitly agreed that the publisher is correct in asserting that the nexus of the sale is the purchaser's credit card address. There has to be some way to sell ebooks so that the transaction is finalized in the US.

Ankh
05-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Have fun. (http://www.nerdgirl.com/2009/03/20/amazon-kindle-outside-the-us/)

:thanks:

zerospinboson
05-27-2009, 09:05 PM
Odd, this. I also came across this georestriction thing earlier today, but when I told FW I lived in Beverly Hills, the credit-card (which is a european issue) payment was accepted for what it was.
Haven't the faintest why it worked, though. Perhaps people living there are allowed to have euro CCs?

zerospinboson
05-27-2009, 09:07 PM
I found recently I had to set up an account at paypal.com and give a us address beforre I could purchase everything at fictionwise. Oddly enough, having a UK card funding the paypal account didn't cause a problem.
Technically, they shouldn't have a clue what card was funding the paypal account anyway. That's what that (untrustworthy) middle-man is for in the first place.

AlexBell
05-28-2009, 03:21 AM
If you want to buy geographically restricted books at Fictionwise and also get the rebates from those books take a look at www.entropay.com.
The Entropay card is a virtual Visa debit card that has no registered billing address, so any address is accepted as a valid billing address.
I registered for a card yesterday and it was activated today.
I can confirm that the card does work at Fictionwise. You only have to change your Fictionwise country to US, and you can use your regelar address and name to pay with the Entropay card. The card is accepted without a problem.

This is of course just my personal experience.

Geert
The Netherlands

Err, I think you'll find that just changing one's country on the Fictionwise profile enables one to buy geographically restricted books. No need to pay in any other way than before.

Regards, Alex

angryvegan
05-28-2009, 03:29 AM
Err, I think you'll find that just changing one's country on the Fictionwise profile enables one to buy geographically restricted books. No need to pay in any other way than before.

FWIW, unless they have changed something in the last couple of weeks I believe this is not true, from my experience they are checking your credit card billing address and also your (well, my) PayPal account address. The only way I can buy books now is by purchasing MicroPay dollars and using those with a US address.

Margrete
05-28-2009, 03:43 AM
FWIW, unless they have changed something in the last couple of weeks I believe this is not true, from my experience they are checking your credit card billing address and also your (well, my) PayPal account address. The only way I can buy books now is by purchasing MicroPay dollars and using those with a US address.

agree, but in my case they only checked my credit card address, after I removed everything related to my norwegian address and credit card in my fictionwise profile and changed the country to USA, then everything worked with paypal even though my paypal account address is norwegian. It's really annoying the whole thing

HarryT
05-28-2009, 03:45 AM
agree, but in my case they only checked my credit card address, after I removed everything related to my norwegian address and credit card in my fictionwise profile and changed the country to USA, then everything worked with paypal even though my paypal account address is norwegian. It's really annoying the whole thing

That's exactly what I did, and I can confirm that it does work.

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 05:01 AM
technically, some of these solutions could be described as fraudulent .... (now - which one works !!!)

HarryT
05-28-2009, 05:06 AM
I think, Geoff, that although FictionWise have to impose these geographical restrictions, they've deliberately left the system as "open" as they can. As far as their system is concerned, if you tell it that you're in the USA, and they have nothing on their system (such as a credit card) which indicates otherwise, then you are in the USA as far as they are concerned, and they'll happily sell you the books.

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:00 AM
Told IT I'm in the US, and using Paypal with a bank account - and the transaction continues to be refused. Problem is Paypal also has my address.....

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:10 AM
Damnable restriction, and the books I want in WHSmith are only available as adobe pdf & adobe ePub.....:furious2::lipsrseal:furious::poke: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Jellby
05-28-2009, 06:13 AM
If you could buy other books and then get the ones you want with micropay, I think changing your country in your profile should work, it worked for me, at least.

pdurrant
05-28-2009, 06:17 AM
They also take account of the country in your Paypal account if you use Paypal. If I pay with my usual paypal account, I hit geographic restrictions. If I pay with the account I created at paypal.com, I don't.

I think, Geoff, that although FictionWise have to impose these geographical restrictions, they've deliberately left the system as "open" as they can. As far as their system is concerned, if you tell it that you're in the USA, and they have nothing on their system (such as a credit card) which indicates otherwise, then you are in the USA as far as they are concerned, and they'll happily sell you the books.

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:18 AM
I've changed my country in my profile, to Ak in US.
I have no credit card registered with Fictionwise.
A direct credit card transaction fails, 'cause my profile address doesn't tally with my credit card address, then there is the grographical restriction.
A Paypal transaction fails, either by one of two credit cards, ot my nominated bank account.
If Fictionwise reckon that 10% of their books are affected, and I've chosen 8 books - all of which are restricted, then I suspect their 10% is a little on the conservative side.

I could buy all via micropay, but that means I negate the benefit of both club membership and also opportunity to gain micropay discounts....

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:19 AM
They also take account of the country in your Paypal account if you use Paypal. If I pay with my usual paypal account, I hit geographic restrictions. If I pay with the account I created at paypal.com, I don't.



run that one passed me, again .... usual paypal account, and a 'created' account.
isn't an address required for a paypal account ? - or am I missing the obvious (as usual)

pdurrant
05-28-2009, 06:29 AM
OK, my usual account is a paypal.co.uk account, with a uk address, bank account, credit card. But the problem is that PayPal knows I'm in the UK, and apparently tells Fictionwise.

Hmm.. I suppose this might be passed in the delivery address...

Oh, how foolish. Yes that's it. I didn't need to bother with a new Paypal account at all, I just needed to change the delivery address to a US address.

So there's your answer - add a US delivery address to your Paypal account address book, and use that address when ordering from Fcitionwise.

run that one passed me, again .... usual paypal account, and a 'created' account.
isn't an address required for a paypal account ? - or am I missing the obvious (as usual)

zerospinboson
05-28-2009, 06:31 AM
run that one passed me, again .... usual paypal account, and a 'created' account.
isn't an address required for a paypal account ? - or am I missing the obvious (as usual)
Try using your normal cc but change your billing address to somewhere in the US. I was also unsure it wouldn't be accepted, but it worked like a charm (and I assume they're able to bill my cc as well).

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:32 AM
OK, my usual account is a paypal.co.uk account, with a uk address, bank account, credit card. But the problem is that PayPal knows I'm in the UK, and apparently tells Fictionwise.

Hmm.. I suppose this might be passed in the delivery address...

Oh, how foolish. Yes that's it. I didn't need to bother with a new Paypal account at all, I just needed to change the delivery address to a US address.

So there's your answer - add a US delivery address to your Paypal account address book, and use that address when ordering from Fcitionwise.


I've been trying that dodge, but couldn't find the post code of 1 Capitol Hill.....

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:38 AM
My Paypal profile will not allow me to add a non-UK address ..... either as myself, nor as a 'gift'...........

pdurrant
05-28-2009, 06:48 AM
I've been trying that dodge, but couldn't find the post code of 1 Capitol Hill.....

Capitol Building,
Washington,
DC 20515
USA

or you could use

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20500
USA

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:50 AM
I seem unable to add a non-UK address......the drop-down box does not allow me to make any other choice.

HarryT
05-28-2009, 06:52 AM
I think that FW should just give you the book, Geoff - they can't have many customers as dedicated as you!

Have you looked to see if it's available at BoB?

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:54 AM
I think that FW should just give you the book, Geoff - they can't have many customers as dedicated as you!

Have you looked to see if it's available at BoB?

8 books, Harry !!!

I'm in the process of asking for a refund on my membership which is a recent transaction - either that or else I've got to change my reading habits - but damnit! - why should I .

I've not yet looked in BoB, but I'm sure that at some stage they too will introduce restriction.

What UK options do we have ?
Sir Pratchett's books aren't available in Wh Smith in Cy format .....

HarryT
05-28-2009, 06:56 AM
No - unfortunately all the UK shops seem to favour ePub :(.

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 06:56 AM
No - unfortunately all the UK shops seem to favour ePub :(.


A rude word, unusually, just passed my lips ......

pdurrant
05-28-2009, 06:59 AM
My Paypal profile will not allow me to add a non-UK address ..... either as myself, nor as a 'gift'...........

Oh - how odd. I've just checked and you're right. They no longer allow this. It seems I have a US address on my list of addresses because I added one before they changed this.

In which case, the new Paypal account seems your only method with Paypal. I did it with a new account, using a US address. I then added my UK card, giving it a US billing address. Weird, but it did get the $1 debit so I could verify the account and be allowed to send money out of it..

columbus
05-28-2009, 07:13 AM
8 books, Harry !!!

I'm in the process of asking for a refund on my membership which is a recent transaction - either that or else I've got to change my reading habits - but damnit! - why should I .

I've not yet looked in BoB, but I'm sure that at some stage they too will introduce restriction.

What UK options do we have ?
Sir Pratchett's books aren't available in Wh Smith in Cy format .....

I had problems with BoB over geographic restrictions some time ago, however they accept Google checkout which worked for me.

Change BoB country to US, choose US within Google as delivery address (you have to give Google the correct card address as billing address, you can choose what info is not to be passed to retailer). I set up an account before buying, I am in Spain & used a UK based CC, plus I got an extra 1% discount using it.

zerospinboson
05-28-2009, 07:51 AM
I've been trying that dodge, but couldn't find the post code of 1 Capitol Hill.....
Did you also try it using that address as your billing address in FW?

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 11:00 AM
Did you also try it using that address as your billing address in FW?

it wasn't possible to enter into Paypal - I'm restricted to UK entries only - so I didn't get as far as putting it into FW...

zerospinboson
05-28-2009, 11:11 AM
it wasn't possible to enter into Paypal - I'm restricted to UK entries only - so I didn't get as far as putting it into FW...
Yeah, but I mean if you skip paypal altogether, and just pay with your CC directly, using the Capitol Hill address as your billing address on FW.

HarryT
05-28-2009, 11:16 AM
OK - just to test this out, I've tried to buy "Stranger in a Strange Land" with PayPal and...

... failed :(

Looks as though the system has been tightened up.

I then bought it with Micropay, and that worked fine. Obviously, though, I didn't get the extra discount that I would have done had I paid with PayPal. Still a good price, though, even so.

pdurrant
05-28-2009, 11:43 AM
So it looks like a new Paypal acccount is one way to get around the restrictions. Otherwise, the Entropay prepaid visa card works, according to someone earlier in this thread.

http://www.entropay.com/

I haven't tried it myself, since it seems I can use the US address I had in my paypal address book from a while back.

Paul

OK - just to test this out, I've tried to buy "Stranger in a Strange Land" with PayPal and...

... failed :(

Looks as though the system has been tightened up.

I then bought it with Micropay, and that worked fine. Obviously, though, I didn't get the extra discount that I would have done had I paid with PayPal. Still a good price, though, even so.

GeoffC
05-28-2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah, but I mean if you skip paypal altogether, and just pay with your CC directly, using the Capitol Hill address as your billing address on FW.


The CC address wouldn't then tally with the billing address, and I'd also fail on that score...

kesey
05-28-2009, 12:25 PM
Re Entropay: note the 4.95% charge for funding your account.

http://www.entropay.com/popups/faq.en.php

Is there any monthly or annual fee for EntroPay Accounts?

There are no monthly or annual fees with an EntroPay Virtual Card. Our only fee is the 4.95% charge on each amount loaded onto an EntroPay Virtual Card. There are no hidden fees.

Return funds from EntroPay Account to personal credit/debit card: we charge a GBP3/USD6 fee as outlined in our Terms and Conditions.

There is no minimum withdrawal amount. Your balance must however be sufficient to cover the GBP3/USD6 withdrawal fee.

zerospinboson
05-28-2009, 12:29 PM
The CC address wouldn't then tally with the billing address, and I'd also fail on that score...
Will it hurt to try? It worked fine for me.

geertm
05-28-2009, 12:58 PM
I have bought some of the books in the past using micropay, but then you do not get the rebates. Like many other people in this forum, I had the problem that my (Dutch) Paypal account could not be used to buy those restricted books. That is why I have been looking for another way to pay.

Geert

NuclearWinter
05-28-2009, 01:05 PM
Have you guys tried just paying by credit card and changing the country field in billing address to US? While making sure the rest of your address is correct (ie: use your european address exactly, aside from the country)? Because as far as I know Fictionwise, like a lot of places, don't actually send the country field as part of the credit card authorisation.

geertm
05-28-2009, 01:10 PM
I was the one who suggested using the Entropay card.
Compared to other virtual cards that usually charge a monthly fee, the 4,95% funding charge is very reasonable.
If you load $100 on your card, you pay $105.
Yesterday I used the card to buy $94 restricted books, and got a $42 rebate. Paying $5 to get a $42 rebate is a good deal in my opinion.

Geert

Re Entropay: note the 4.95% charge for funding your account.

http://www.entropay.com/popups/faq.en.php

Is there any monthly or annual fee for EntroPay Accounts?

There are no monthly or annual fees with an EntroPay Virtual Card. Our only fee is the 4.95% charge on each amount loaded onto an EntroPay Virtual Card. There are no hidden fees.

Return funds from EntroPay Account to personal credit/debit card: we charge a GBP3/USD6 fee as outlined in our Terms and Conditions.

There is no minimum withdrawal amount. Your balance must however be sufficient to cover the GBP3/USD6 withdrawal fee.

pdurrant
05-28-2009, 01:22 PM
If you'd bought another $6 of ebooks, you'd have got an extra $10 large purchase rebate (if you're a member of the fictionwise club).

Yesterday I used the card to buy $94 restricted books, and got a $42 rebate.

NuclearWinter
05-28-2009, 01:36 PM
I use Entropay to buy from the Sony store and find the 5% fee to easily be worth it.

However as I posted a moment ago, you should be able to buy from Fictionwise just using your credit card and entering the country as US when you enter your billing address.

Gibbo
05-28-2009, 01:49 PM
I started using Entropay when FW had the 100% rebate "Star Trek Movie-Tie in ebook" and got the full rebate.

geertm
05-28-2009, 01:52 PM
I know. But these were the last books on my wishlist (I have bought a lot of books because of the current anniversary sale), and I am already buying too many books. Buying e-books is just too easy:)

If you'd bought another $6 of ebooks, you'd have got an extra $10 large purchase rebate (if you're a member of the fictionwise club).

geertm
05-28-2009, 02:03 PM
I did not think this would work, but it did!

I have just bought "Stranger in a strange land" using my Dutch Visa card, with my Dutch billing address, and US as the country.

I will keep my Entropay card, because I do not expect the publishers to accept these kind of "restrictions" for long.

Have you guys tried just paying by credit
card and changing the country field in billing address to US? While making sure the rest of your address is correct (ie: use your european address exactly, aside from the country)? Because as far as I know Fictionwise, like a lot of places, don't actually send the country field as part of the credit card authorisation.

DixieGal
05-28-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm sort of disappointed in FW today. Went there twice, looking for two well-known scifi books. Neither was available. I've never before failed to find what I wanted there. :blink:

DaleDe
05-28-2009, 07:57 PM
I did not think this would work, but it did!

I have just bought "Stranger in a strange land" using my Dutch Visa card, with my Dutch billing address, and US as the country.

I will keep my Entropay card, because I do not expect the publishers to accept these kind of "restrictions" for long.

I hope you enjoy the book. It is a great read, particularly the version released after Heinlein's death. It is a lot longer than the original with all the stuff in it that was originally removed by the publisher in the version released in the '60s.

Dale

GeoffC
05-29-2009, 04:50 AM
Have you guys tried just paying by credit card and changing the country field in billing address to US? While making sure the rest of your address is correct (ie: use your european address exactly, aside from the country)? Because as far as I know Fictionwise, like a lot of places, don't actually send the country field as part of the credit card authorisation.


Yes, without success.

FW have ignored my request to have my club membership refunded - leastwise they haven't responded within one working day......

HarryT
05-29-2009, 06:41 AM
They generally take 2 or 3 days to respond, but they WILL respond.

hannah
05-29-2009, 07:04 AM
It worked for me too!
I put my adress with us as country and everything went fine :)

Snowman
05-29-2009, 07:12 AM
The Entropay site has been down for "essential maintenance" for the past 12+ hours. You cannot sign in or sign up.

Certainly builds confidence. Or not.

Snowman

GeoffC
05-29-2009, 11:25 AM
I had an epiphany moment, I deleted my cookies for Fictionwise which was then followed by a successful purchase of one of the restricted offerings.

The mention of credit card addressing appears to be a little bit of a 'red herring' ....

columbus
05-29-2009, 11:37 AM
The Entropay site has been down for "essential maintenance" for the past 12+ hours. You cannot sign in or sign up.

Certainly builds confidence. Or not.

Snowman

I thought of using Entropay but after a Google search producing a number of negative comments I did not bother.

Curly
05-29-2009, 12:52 PM
I had an epiphany moment, I deleted my cookies for Fictionwise which was then followed by a successful purchase of one of the restricted offerings.

The mention of credit card addressing appears to be a little bit of a 'red herring' ....

So, will you be able to buy the Pratchett books now in the format you want at the price you want?

GeoffC
05-29-2009, 02:14 PM
So, will you be able to buy the Pratchett books now in the format you want at the price you want?


I do, I have and did.

It's not FW's fault and I feel uneasy about the little deception.

So I've now put my address back to UK and I shall await events which hopefully will see a UK outlet for them.

NuclearWinter
05-29-2009, 09:07 PM
I thought of using Entropay but after a Google search producing a number of negative comments I did not bother.

FWIW Entropay has been around for a number of years and I know many happy users, including myself. But then you'll also find pages full of negative comments and horror stories about Paypal and I've never had a problem with them either.

However as a precaution I never leave money in my account on either site, I only load them right before I'm going to spend the money.

HarryT
05-30-2009, 03:39 AM
FWIW Entropay has been around for a number of years and I know many happy users, including myself. But then you'll also find pages full of negative comments and horror stories about Paypal and I've never had a problem with them either.

However as a precaution I never leave money in my account on either site, I only load them right before I'm going to spend the money.

In the UK, PayPal are a bank, regulated by the Financial Services Authority. That means that your deposits with them are protected by law, up to, I think about 50,000, which is probably rather more than most of us keep in our PayPal accounts :).

HansTWN
06-03-2009, 12:28 PM
Did anyone try Entropay or other "tricks" mentioned here on Itunes or Amazon?

dpierron
06-04-2009, 08:03 AM
I just purchased Anne McCaffrey "Dragonflight" from FictionWise, by changing my delivery address to the White House, and using my French VISA credit card.

I can indeed confirm that it worked !

Thanks to the poster who tipped me with President Obama's address ;)

Dr. Drib
06-04-2009, 08:32 AM
I just purchased Anne McCaffrey "Dragonflight" from FictionWise, by changing my delivery address to the White House, and using my French VISA credit card.

I can indeed confirm that it worked !

Thanks to the poster who tipped me with President Obama's address ;)


The White House, indeed! -- Harharharhar! You made my morning, and before I've had my bow**move****.

Hahahahaha.


Don

T3_reader
06-05-2009, 02:22 AM
The eReader site apparently also accepts orders for books with geographical restrictions when you accidentally set the country of your credit card to 'US'.

Argel
06-05-2009, 04:58 AM
Many thanks to those who've done the experimenting here because this has been driving me crazy.

In my case the simple solution was to change the delivery address of my Fictionwise account to the Boston Red Sox and to pay by my UK credit card, with the country inadvertently changed to US.

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 05:17 AM
The solution of just changing your location country to US does work.....
but what would happen to FW if it was discovered that they had been selling outside of the restriction ???

pdurrant
06-05-2009, 05:24 AM
I suppose that publishers could refuse to sell books through Fictionwise.

It might also be argued that anyone in the EU doing this is avoiding VAT and might be prosecuted for that.

The solution of just changing your location country to US does work.....
but what would happen to FW if it was discovered that they had been selling outside of the restriction ???

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 05:33 AM
no VAT (yet) on books in UK...

HansTWN
06-05-2009, 05:34 AM
Fictionwise would just be told to fix that loophole.

Sweetpea
06-05-2009, 05:51 AM
Fictionwise would just be told to fix that loophole.

No, that whole geographic restriction should be flushed down the toilet... So much for a world economy...

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 05:57 AM
No, that whole geographic restriction should be flushed down the toilet... So much for a world economy...


it should be flogged with cat-o-nine-tails with razors attached, keel-hauled around the total fleets of the world, stretched on every rack and gallows, dismembered with axes, chainsaws, ground into ashes, burnt, dissolved in effluent first....



seriously if we need FW for our supplies of less expensive books then we ought to be making life easy for them and blasting the real perpetrators ....

Sweetpea
06-05-2009, 06:00 AM
it should be flogged with cat-o-nine-tails with razors attached, keel-hauled around the total fleets of the world, stretched on every rack and gallows, dismembered with axes, chainsaws, ground into ashes, burnt, dissolved in effluent first...

Hmm, your creativity is bigger than mine!

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 06:02 AM
Hmm, your creativity is bigger than mine!


one tries, despite one's limits ....

pdurrant
06-05-2009, 06:46 AM
Not on paper books, no. But there is a full 15% VAT on ebooks.

no VAT (yet) on books in UK...

pdurrant
06-05-2009, 06:49 AM
I'm hopeful that it will be come less and less of a problem as time goes on. The reason it's there now is because of restrictive terms in the contracts between publishers and authors.

I suspect publishers are now much more insistent on getting world-wide ebook rights, even if non-exclusive ones.


No, that whole geographic restriction should be flushed down the toilet... So much for a world economy...

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 06:55 AM
Not on paper books, no. But there is a full 15% VAT on ebooks.

Ah - I hadn't appreciated that .... thanks ...

Argel
06-05-2009, 08:06 AM
It might also be argued that anyone in the EU doing this is avoiding VAT and might be prosecuted for that.

Of course, that would apply to anyone from Europe buying any ebook from the US via a supplier who doesn't charge VAT. The question of whether the ebook has geographical restrictions is not really relevant to the VAT issue.

pdurrant
06-05-2009, 08:23 AM
Oddly, no.

There's a possible exception to VAT on imported goods -- "Imports of Negligible Value" -- governments can choose to ignore imported goods with a value not exceeding 22 ECU.

In the UK, anything less that 18 is given this exception, but only for physical shipment. There's no lower limit for immaterial goods.

Of course, that would apply to anyone from Europe buying any ebook from the US via a supplier who doesn't charge VAT. The question of whether the ebook has geographical restrictions is not really relevant to the VAT issue.

HansTWN
06-05-2009, 09:07 AM
it not just books. The same for movie and music downloads. A song on itunes US is 99 cents in Germany 99 Euro cents. A lot of things are not even available outside the US/Canada. Electronic goods in general, all cheaper in the US. For physical goods there are still some stores that specialize in selling abroad, but those you don't buy that often. For our books in the end, a reliable virtual credit card from a US bank seems to be the only solid solution. However, we must find a reputable company. Entropay is European, I am not sure if will work at all stores.

Argel
06-05-2009, 09:24 AM
In the UK, anything less that 18 is given this exception, but only for physical shipment. There's no lower limit for immaterial goods.

A bit of googling reveals that the situation is, as always with VAT, very complex. I calim absolutely no expertise but there's an interesting discussion here (http://www.affiliates4u.com/forums/vat-incorporation-hmrc-tax-accuntancy/45904-adwords-vat-not-vat-registered.html) relating to Google adwords, where the supplier appears to be outside the UK.

The bit that struck me was the answer to a specific question addressed to Revenue and Customs:

"If I am not VAT registered, but Google are no longer charging me VAT and I need to self-assess the VAT due, will there be any VAT due to be paid if I am not VAT registered in the UK?"

To which the answer from the Revenue was, apparently:

"You will only be liable to pay UK VAT once you are registered for VAT."

The other fascinating thing is that for fiction, the place of supply is wherever the supplier is based but for non-fiction, the place of supply is where the customer is based, because it is classed as a service delivered to the customer.

Anyway, I may be totally misinterpreting (not unknown) but I'm assuming at present that I am not liable for VAT on downloads from outside the EC where the supplier does not charge me VAT at the time of purchase.

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
VAT is complicated, as you state...

As a buyer, VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods.

As a seller, you do not have to charge VAT until you are registered. - I don't know what the threshold is these days, but 15 years ago it was 32k.

Argel
06-05-2009, 09:54 AM
As a buyer, VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods.

As a seller, you do not have to charge VAT until you are registered. - I don't know what the threshold is these days, but 15 years ago it was 32k.

Well actually that's not quite right. VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods where the supplier is liable to charge VAT. To take your example of an unregistered seller of goods, I don't have to pay VAT on what I buy from them.

And in fact, if VAT is due and the supplier doesn't charge it, it is the supplier who will be expected to pay the VAT out of what they received. I know that to my cost, since I once had to pay VAT on a part-time salary that was contractually defined as freelance fees but had absolutely nothing to do with the main activity for which I was VAT-registered. I had to pay and then go back to my employer and beg them to pay me VAT on my last two years' salary - they were under no obligation to do so.

BTW I think the limit is now just over 60k

HarryT
06-05-2009, 10:59 AM
I know that the limit is quite high, because I recently "deregistered" for VAT, since the limit had gone way above my earnings from my software business.

GeoffC
06-05-2009, 12:12 PM
Well actually that's not quite right. VAT has to be paid on non-exempt goods where the supplier is liable to charge VAT. To take your example of an unregistered seller of goods, I don't have to pay VAT on what I buy from them.

And in fact, if VAT is due and the supplier doesn't charge it, it is the supplier who will be expected to pay the VAT out of what they received. I know that to my cost, since I once had to pay VAT on a part-time salary that was contractually defined as freelance fees but had absolutely nothing to do with the main activity for which I was VAT-registered. I had to pay and then go back to my employer and beg them to pay me VAT on my last two years' salary - they were under no obligation to do so.

BTW I think the limit is now just over 60k


true - my mistake....

DaleDe
06-05-2009, 12:14 PM
Ah - I hadn't appreciated that .... thanks ...

eBooks are considered to be software so far as VAT is concerned.

Dale

Argel
06-05-2009, 06:41 PM
eBooks are considered to be software so far as VAT is concerned.

Not quite. They are digital material and, as I pointed out above, either counted as a product if they are fiction or a service if they are non-fiction. The difference is that products are deemed to originate from the point of sale for VAT purposes, while services are deemed to be created at the point of delivery.

If I buy a sci-fi book from Fictionwise it originates in the US for VAT purposes. If I buy a biography its origin is deemed to be the PC to which I download it. Go figure.

momghoti
06-09-2009, 07:45 PM
Thank you all so much--I've been struggling with the geographic restrictions for a while now. I actually have a US credit card but it has a UK billing address, which triggered the restriction(sigh). I will try using the country the card is in, not billed to. Close enough to the truth for me....

dpierron
06-10-2009, 05:02 AM
That's really weird considering that I succeeded in ordering a restricted book (Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey) with a french VISA (attached to an address in Metz, France), after having set my billing address to the White House - yes, I sublease from M. Obama ;-)

Tulkas
06-10-2009, 04:20 PM
Just visited Fictionwise and hit the geographic restriction issue on all 12 of the books I wanted to buy. To say I was pretty p##### off would be a mild understatement particularly as there appears to be no UK ebook retailer selling the titles I want in mobipocket format.

Wading through this thread it appears my main option is to change my billing country in Fictionwise to US then use micropay, is that correct? Unclear whether changing my address in Fictionwise then allows Paypal payment?

This seems to be a case of ebook suicide for the non-US/Canadian market just when interest is increasing.

pdurrant
06-10-2009, 04:47 PM
Having done about every option myself, you can get around the restrictions quite simply like this:

At Fictionwise: Change your address at fictionwise to be in the US. Just a country change should do.

Paypal: If you already have a US delivery address in your account, just select that on checkout. If you don't you can't use your usual paypal account to pay.

Credit Card: I'm told that if you enter all your credit card detail correctly, EXCEPT for entering USA as the country of the CC address, it should work fine. Apparently the country doesn't get passed to the CC company for verification.

Just visited Fictionwise and hit the geographic restriction issue on all 12 of the books I wanted to buy. To say I was pretty p##### off would be a mild understatement particularly as there appears to be no UK ebook retailer selling the titles I want in mobipocket format.

Wading through this thread it appears my main option is to change my billing country in Fictionwise to US then use micropay, is that correct? Unclear whether changing my address in Fictionwise then allows Paypal payment?

This seems to be a case of ebook suicide for the non-US/Canadian market just when interest is increasing.

Tulkas
06-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Thanks for your reply

Country is certainly validated for card transactions, not exactly sure how ~ but it's flagged if there's discrepancies between card issuing country/contact country/IP address.

I can't add a non-UK address on Paypal :(

Argel
06-10-2009, 06:29 PM
Country is certainly validated for card transactions, not exactly sure how ~ but it's flagged if there's discrepancies between card issuing country/contact country/IP address.

Well changing the country of my UK card to US worked perfectly for me (as for others) - along with entering a US delivery address.

pdurrant
06-10-2009, 06:32 PM
Umm.. try the CC trick. I've heard several times that it works.

Otherwise, the other way to do it is to sign up for a new paypal account, at paypal.com, giving a US address. You can add a non-us card to the account to fund it, and once verified you're all set. You just pay fictionwise from this new paypal account, which has a US delivery address.

Thanks for your reply

Country is certainly validated for card transactions, not exactly sure how ~ but it's flagged if there's discrepancies between card issuing country/contact country/IP address.

I can't add a non-UK address on Paypal :(

FixB
06-10-2009, 07:01 PM
I've missed the anniversary sales due to those restrictions, and I really don't like being unable to buy a single book from my wishlist (I've paid recently my annual fee to be a member of a website from which I'm not allowed to buy anything !)

Tulkas
06-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the tips

I've got the books. Hopefully there'll be a UK focused ebook retailer / shopfront to sort this issue out sooner rather than later.

I checked out the titles at Mobipocket too.. it made me laugh on one that the 'allowed' countries list was basically every country you could name, apart from the UK :rolleyes:

GeoffC
06-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the tips

I've got the books. Hopefully there'll be a UK focused ebook retailer / shopfront to sort this issue out sooner rather than later.

I checked out the titles at Mobipocket too.. it made me laugh on one that the 'allowed' countries list was basically every country you could name, apart from the UK :rolleyes:


yep - mobipocket restricting sales to the UK is also annoying .....

pdurrant
06-11-2009, 05:05 PM
It's not fictionwise or mobipocket that's the problem. Nor is it even the publishers. It's that contracts drawn up for paper books didn't give sufficient consideration to ebooks.

So there are lots of contracts between authors and publishers that give exclusive publishing rights for paper and ebooks in a particular geographic area to one publisher, and in another area to a different publisher.

One might even argue that it's not the contract that's at fault, but the interpretation of where a sale takes place....

I /hope/ that current and future contracts specify exclusive geographic rights for paper, and non-exclusive world-wide rights for ebooks, but I've no idea if that's so. It the only thing that would make sense IMO, but that rarely means that it's what's happening.


yep - mobipocket restricting sales to the UK is also annoying .....

columbus
06-11-2009, 05:10 PM
It's not fictionwise or mobipocket that's the problem. Nor is it even the publishers. It's that contracts drawn up for paper books didn't give sufficient consideration to ebooks.

So there are lots of contracts between authors and publishers that give exclusive publishing rights for paper and ebooks in a particular geographic area to one publisher, and in another area to a different publisher.

One might even argue that it's not the contract that's at fault, but the interpretation of where a sale takes place....

I /hope/ that current and future contracts specify exclusive geographic rights for paper, and non-exclusive world-wide rights for ebooks, but I've no idea if that's so. It the only thing that would make sense IMO, but that rarely means that it's what's happening.

Makes you wonder how long it will be before ebooks are "region coded" a la DVD's & look how effective that was.

Greed by the publishers just playing into the pirates hands.

Tulkas
06-11-2009, 05:22 PM
As usual it's the customer that suffers.

No doubt they'll find a way to charge more to UK customers too (like iTunes). They're already lining their pockets with many ebook titles as dear as the paper equivalent.

Jellby
06-12-2009, 05:42 AM
I wonder... is it possible to buy an ebook for someone else as a gift?

If it is, person A, living in the US, could buy a restricted ebook for person B, living in the UK. In exchange, person B buys an unrestricted ebook for person A (or sends the money somehow). Maybe some group or community could be created to manage this?

GeoffC
06-12-2009, 05:47 AM
whatever the rights and wrongs or perceived otherwises, in order for me - in the UK - to get the books I wish to read - I either do without or fiddle the country section of my address.

dpierron
06-15-2009, 11:23 AM
One might even argue that it's not the contract that's at fault, but the interpretation of where a sale takes place....

I couldn't agree more : imagine that I, a french citizen, with a french credit card, happen to wander in the Big Apple, NY, USA... I enter a bookstore, and purchase an american edition of a book, printed in the USA, and published by a publisher who has secured the publication rights for the USA.

Would I be allowed such a purchase ? I guess that I would, although maybe I should give proper consideration to taxes...

What's the difference between this scenario and when I try buying a (e)book at Fictionwise ?

It could be interesting to explain this to the publishers, wouldn't it...

Sweetpea
06-15-2009, 11:26 AM
I couldn't agree more : imagine that I, a french citizen, with a french credit card, happen to wander in the Big Apple, NY, USA... I enter a bookstore, and purchase an american edition of a book, printed in the USA, and published by a publisher who has secured the publication rights for the USA.

Would I be allowed such a purchase ? I guess that I would, although maybe I should give proper consideration to taxes...

What's the difference between this scenario and when I try buying a (e)book at Fictionwise ?

It could be interesting to explain this to the publishers, wouldn't it...

They'd probably be able to give a valid reason why you should be allowed to buy that physical book and not the ebook :p Or, they'll be standing at the airport next, demanding all books that have been bought before you're allowed to enter the plane!

GeoffC
06-15-2009, 12:08 PM
They'd probably be able to give a valid reason why you should be allowed to buy that physical book and not the ebook :p Or, they'll be standing at the airport next, demanding all books that have been bought before you're allowed to enter the plane!


or the vendor at the bookshop at the airport terminal should be asking you for your passport to see if the sale is allowable....

Xenophon
06-15-2009, 12:33 PM
I couldn't agree more : imagine that I, a french citizen, with a french credit card, happen to wander in the Big Apple, NY, USA... I enter a bookstore, and purchase an american edition of a book, printed in the USA, and published by a publisher who has secured the publication rights for the USA.

Would I be allowed such a purchase ? I guess that I would, although maybe I should give proper consideration to taxes...

You certainly would be allowed to make that purchase. The locus of the sale is the bookstore which is in the USA, so the sale of the book falls within the publishers contractual rights.

To state things even more carefully, the publisher's contract with the author/agent restricts the location of the first sale of the book. Because of the "right of first sale" the contract between publisher and author does not and cannot place restrictions after that first sale takes place. This then raises the questions "When is a 'sale' actually a sale?" and "Once we've identified that first sale, where is the locus of the sale?"

In the US market most bookstores and distributors 'buy' books on a consignment basis. That is, they can return the books for a full refund of their (supposed) purchase price. [n.b. -- Hardcovers are literally returned, mass-market paperbacks are usually stripped of their front cover and discarded with only the front cover being returned.] Because of the right to return for a full refund, this usually does not constitute an actual sale (for purposes of determining the locus of the sale). Thus, distributors generally won't ship outside their geographic region (whether USA or North American, as the case may be). A sale from a bookstore to a person, however does satisfy the definition of a "real sale," and so establishes the locus of the sale. For retail sales from a store, (or kiosk, or whatever), that locus is the physical location of the store.

For arcane reasons that I do not understand (I am not a lawyer!), the definition of the locus of sale for mail-order sales of physical goods such as books is not the same as the definition of the locus of sale for downloaded online content. For mail-order of physical goods, the locus of sale is the physical location of the facility that houses and ships the product. This may be a warehouse, a retail store, or the publisher's basement to name just a few possibilities. For some odd reason the locus of sale for a download is (or maybe it's just "might be"!) the location of the buyer's computer.

And it's even more complicated when you add tax questions (especially State and local sales taxes) into the picture. A taxing body local to both the seller and the buyer can collect sales tax on the sale to an end-user. But companies that do business in more than one state become 'local' in each state where they have a physical facility. Further, states attempt to collect a 'use tax' on all interstate purchases for which there is no sales tax. But use taxes are perhaps the least popular tax there is in the USA -- they are widely avoided, almost no one pays.



What's the difference between this scenario and when I try buying a (e)book at Fictionwise ?

It could be interesting to explain this to the publishers, wouldn't it...
What's the difference? See the above meandering description. The situation is really quite bizarre.

Xenophon

Coops
06-15-2009, 01:36 PM
Amusing that simply stating your Visa address incorrectly is enough....

Did download one using my Paypal account, ok. Had a US address in the account already.

So what format is best to download from Fictionwise for using on the Sony prs505?

Coops
06-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Thanks to everyone on this site!

Not only bought an ebook with a US dollar credit card from a Jersey, UK based Bank for an English guy, living in Thailand and making the purchase from work in Brunei (who'd have ever though it would be this difficult to pay someone for something!) but even, errrr, modified the mobi format so i can *gasp* read it on my Sony in lrf format.

Thanks

:-)

Kostas
07-29-2009, 07:51 AM
I tested today the workaround with the PayPal US address + European credit card. Total failure!
I get the following message:
The amount of this transaction exceeds your remaining sending limit and cannot be processed at this time.
* You will need to add and confirm your bank account. Once your bank account has been added and confirmed, you can continue this payment. Add your bank account information below.

Actually, I got a PayPal account with a sending limit of $0!

Obviously, creating a new PayPal account with US address but no bank account is useless!

I did some google search and found this hilarious dialog with PayPal Customer Service:
I'm trying to pay with a debit card through Paypal, and I linked it, but I haven't linked a bank account yet. I'm trying to buy something through a site which only accepts Paypal, and my sending limits are $0.00. How can I raise the sending limit without linking a bank account?

If your'e in the US, adding and confirming a bank account is the only way to raise your sending limit (requirements can vary by country). We extend the opportunity for some use of PayPal for most customers prior to having their identity confirmed further, but this limit is a protection to PayPal, as well as financial institutions and to recipients of funds.
Thanks,
PayPal Jason

This is a crock! It has nothing to do with security! Paypal (eBay) just wants to get their fingers into another account, just in case the Paypal debit card balance goes over!
If Paypal did their job right, ALL payments would be INSTANT, thus making it impossible to go into the negative! But, you guys piss around and wait 2 or 3 days on "pending" payments, and people go over their balance and you guys get stuck with the tab.
Let's stop bullshitting the PAYING customers!
I've been using eBay/Paypal for over ten years and now my account is useless because you jerks want me to tie a bank account into my Paypal.(by the way, prooving I've spent at least $10,000 using the service!!!)
How is that making anything more secure for me? If anything, it's just exposing me to more threats, now you (or another thief) can take money out of another account without any fore-warning or permission from me...then ask questions later, just keeping my hard earned money tied up for days!
We tried using my bank account, remember Paypal? You guys screwed that up too. You decided to charge my debit card, which I selected, then 3 days later removed the pending charges fromk my card and took it from my bank...without having to give me a straight answer...cause YOU HAVE CONTROL!!!
I can't wait until another company gets this idea going, we need an alternative to Paypal.
Any time Paypal decides to cover their ass or gain more control, they change policy and scream "SECURITY REASONS"!

Adding a bank account confirms for us that the account holder on file has access to the financial records that were added to the account. Additionally, while we don't know everything that your bank knows about you, when you register a bank account, you're providing that financial institution with information about yourself like a valid address, your social security number, etc.
By acknowledging the deposits we send to that bank, the account holder has demonstrated they've provided enough of an identity verification to the bank that they were allowed to open an account.
This makes our service more secure because our customers have demonstrated further proof of identity. Also, limiting the amount that can be sent on a PayPal account until additional proof of identity is provided absolutely protects us, our customers and the banks and credit card companies registered to PayPal accounts. If someone somehow gained access to your checking account number and your PayPal account, would you prefer to lose everything or have the damages limited?
The other thing that you're missing here is that we ask for A bank account for the purposes of identity verification. We do not say we need THE bank account where you transact and maintain a balance. See if your bank will let you open a separate business or personal bank account, or see if another bank in your community will let you open a free checking account.
We don't require a minimum monthly balance at PayPal...we simply want the assurance that our account holders are who they say they are when registering and that they've proven their identity further at a financial institution.
Finally, I'm asking Get Satisfaction if your post can stand with the obscenity removed. This is a violation of the rules of Get Satsifaction and this is a civil environment. As you can see above, there is a simple solution that should meet your needs in terms of confirming your identity further.

Thanks,
PayPal Jason

pdurrant
07-29-2009, 08:00 AM
Before I found out that I could get by using the US delivery address on my UK paypal account, I did set up a US paypal account.

I think I verified it using my UK credit card, using the UK street address, with a US city and zipcode.

I tested today the workaround with the PayPal US address + European credit card. Total failure!
I get the following message:

Actually, I got a PayPal account with a sending limit of $0!

Obviously, creating a new PayPal account with US address but no bank account is useless!

I did some google search and found this hilarious dialog with PayPal Customer Service:

columbus
07-29-2009, 08:09 AM
There is an alternative to PayPal if only more retailers would use it! and that is Google checkout - yes I know all the comments about Google & privacy- but they accept your cc as proof of identity etc. and as far as I can see it works the same way as paypal (used to). Books on board accept it.

Come on people - pester your favourite ebook seller to accept it!

RobbieClarken
07-29-2009, 08:34 AM
It is unfortunate that PayPal requires a linked bank account as proof of identity, but I suspect this is to ensure they don't end up facing charges for aiding money launderers. This is what happened to E-Gold (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/e-gold/). I don't think you can blame PayPal for acting cautiously.

dpierron
07-29-2009, 09:21 AM
I used a european (French) credit card (Visa) and specified a US address - actually, M. Obama let me his home ;)

And guess what ? It worked perfectly... So why bother with Paypal ?

Kostas
07-29-2009, 10:33 AM
Before I found out that I could get by using the US delivery address on my UK paypal account, I did set up a US paypal account.
I think I verified it using my UK credit card, using the UK street address, with a US city and zipcode.
Linking a US bank account to US PayPal account is obviously a new policy which does not affect older accounts.
According to what PayPal people say, there's no other way to really activate a US account.

I used a european (French) credit card (Visa) and specified a US address - actually, M. Obama let me his home ;)
And guess what ? It worked perfectly... So why bother with Paypal ?
I think they feared that Obama could be disguised as dpierron (a not too France profonde nick) at mobileread.com .;)
I have some reserves as to give my cc number here and there.
Anyway, I might give a try to this method too. I'll use Schwarzeneger's address, just in case... Thanks:)

Kostas
07-29-2009, 10:46 AM
Well, the bottom line is that while I can buy at amazon and many other sites any paperbook I want, I cannot have legally the digital versions of these books!
How logical in nowadays open world!!

Hey, where do those guy live? I am willing to pay to have something that I can get most of the times for free on any torrent server! With much lesser pain and time!
Don't they know that?
They don't want us to pay?
Are they pushing us towards darknet and piracy? Could they be undercover agents of the Swedish Pirate party?
Can't they offer us a legal way to have and pay those ebooks so that the author gets a fair return for his creativity?

Idoine
07-29-2009, 02:45 PM
Linking a US bank account to US PayPal account is obviously a new policy which does not affect older accounts.
According to what PayPal people say, there's no other way to really activate a US account.


I think they feared that Obama could be disguised as dpierron (a not too France profonde nick) at mobileread.com .;)
I have some reserves as to give my cc number here and there.
Anyway, I might give a try to this method too. I'll use Schwarzeneger's address, just in case... Thanks:)
You can use your usual Paypal account to fuel your Micropay account, and then use it to pay (with your country at US or Canada).
That's what I do personally...

Kostas
07-29-2009, 04:39 PM
Thanks Idoine!:thumbsup:
Tough I guess you lose benefit of rebates, I'll try this hint too asap.

Terisa de morgan
07-29-2009, 04:45 PM
You can use your usual Paypal account to fuel your Micropay account, and then use it to pay (with your country at US or Canada).
That's what I do personally...

I do the same. The only problem are the discounts for members

geertm
07-29-2009, 04:52 PM
I do the same. The only problem are the discounts for members

As has previously been mentioned. You can just use your regular credit card address with country USA. Works okay with my Dutch Visa credit card.

Ea
07-30-2009, 07:20 AM
As has previously been mentioned. You can just use your regular credit card address with country USA. Works okay with my Dutch Visa credit card.
Works fine. No problem for me either.

ficbot
07-30-2009, 09:42 AM
I finally found one that was restricted in Canada! It's the new Janet Evanovich which is available with 100% micropay rebate. I checked other titles from the same publisher and some were restricted, most were not. Even with the books bu this author, some were restricted and some were not. I spot-checked a few others in my bookshelf and Terry Pratchett had a few that were restricted---seems like all the non-Discworld ones are (including one I bought a few days ago, so this restriction is probably new) and some---but not all---of the Discworld books. It seems pretty random which ones are restricted if some are and some are not.

becket
07-30-2009, 05:16 PM
I have spent too much time just to buy two books when I have found atleast 6 I would have bourght except of the new geogrpaphic restirctions. I looked at Barnes and Noble at some of the books I have already and they are only available in the US now.

Years ago when I started buying ebooks Fictionwise was one of the stores that had the fewest restrictions, now it seems to be going backwards which is a shame. Living in the UK the benifit of the exchange rate and the rebates still make it worth while using but I think I will be using it less.

The layout is good and it is easy to navigate round. I like using the site.

Hopefully things will change as with music I can get DRM free music from Amarzon and Tesco, although the sites are restricted to the country you live in. May be borders will expand their limeted range of ebooks or Waterstones will have a larger range.

Becky

hapalochlaena
08-02-2009, 12:56 AM
So I tried to buy some ebooks from Fictionwise today. After I entered my credit card details I got redirected to this message:

"We're sorry, but there is a problem processing credit card transactions from your location. Please contact customer support for more info. "

Is this new? The last time I bought anything from there the country=US workaround worked, and now it doesn't. I'll be really bummed if this is not a transient error but a new policy.

Blue Tyson
08-10-2009, 12:29 PM
Looks like there may be no point renewing the club membership then.

mtravellerh
08-10-2009, 01:07 PM
I had to notice that erader.com is worse still. From 4 books that I wanted to buy, every single one was rstricted. This begins to seriously upset me!

Blue Tyson
08-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Yeah, it is pretty silly. At a time when they should be growing the market, and people not in the USA have no options, they worry more about their rights - and hence in the process lose sales and encourage downloading.

Flat out dumb.

hapalochlaena
08-14-2009, 02:54 AM
I raised a support ticket and got a response the next day: account suspended, reinstated, please update profile with correct Australian address.

Which means the fix is temporary at best; any time I decide to spend money with Fictionwise my account may go poof. I'll go on trading with them until such time it happens again, and then I'll go to one of their competitors with whom I now have a hassle-free account...

I love books, I like authors and their publishers, I want to support them -- but damn, it's hard.

geertm
08-17-2009, 06:49 PM
Today I wanted to buy the new James Patterson book at Fictionwise (100% CC rebate), and I can confirm that using your regular creditcard (in my case a Dutch Visa card) with country USA does not work anymore. It seems they now check if the address that is used is a real USA address.

I was still able to use my Entropay virtual Visa card (www.entropay.com). But I had to use an USA address. I used my Borderlinx (www.borderlinx.com) mail forwarding address. But I expect that any valid USA address would work with the Entropay card.

I have had no problem using Micropay with country USA. but to get the credit card rebates it seems the Entropay card is the only solution for now.

sleepy turtle
08-17-2009, 11:44 PM
Hi Everyone, I am a newbie here:)
I just want to inform that I am a fictionwise member as well, and I can still buy geographical restricted ebooks with no problem. Just change your address and country with a valid US address, and you can use your regular credit card. There's no need to set up a paypal account. I get this info after I read about this in this forum.

fyi, I just bought Lilith Saintcrow ebooks last week, and I have no problem at all.

About the US address, just get it from google, whether it's a pizza hut address or something else, it still works;)

Happy reading guys...

geertm
08-18-2009, 07:05 AM
Hi Everyone, I am a newbie here:)
I just want to inform that I am a fictionwise member as well, and I can still buy geographical restricted ebooks with no problem. Just change your address and country with a valid US address, and you can use your regular credit card. There's no need to set up a paypal account. I get this info after I read about this in this forum.

fyi, I just bought Lilith Saintcrow ebooks last week, and I have no problem at all.

About the US address, just get it from google, whether it's a pizza hut address or something else, it still works;)

Happy reading guys...

I tried this suggestion, and it does indeed work. I used my Dutch Visa card with a USA address and this was accepted.
I always thought that the credit card company verified the address, but it seems at least at Fictionwise the address information is not checked at all.

sleepy turtle
08-18-2009, 11:29 AM
It also works when you shop at BooksOnBoard...

zerospinboson
08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
It also works when you shop at BooksOnBoard...
Yes, but booksonboard doesn't have the same pricing scheme, if you include rebates (though their collection is a bit wider).. That said, I doubt I'll be spending much at FW beyond what I've currently got in rebate money (though I don't want to spend that just yet, as I'm still hoping for the day when the prices for non-scifi/fant works actually decrease with time, rather than stay at the same level forever...)

hapalochlaena
08-21-2009, 02:38 AM
I think at Fwise you have to change both your account profile and the payment details to US, and then it'll work. I'll be ordering again on the 25th and will update on status.

(Don't forget to change the profile back as soon as the transaction is completed and the books downloaded.)

geertm
08-21-2009, 11:44 AM
I (Don't forget to change the profile back as soon as the transaction is completed and the books downloaded.)

I just leave my profile set to USA, because at the moment it seems that all the new books by popular writers at Fictionwise have geographic restrictions. Almost every book I buy at Fictionwise is only available for the USA.

I wonder how many customers they are losing because of these short-sighted restrictions? By restricting their sales to just the USA they are left with a market where they have to compete with Amazon/Kindle.
As the Fictionwise books cannot be read on the Kindle (at least for the average Kindle reader) they already loose half of that market. I wonder how long Fictionwise is able to make a profit that way? Or is Barnes & Noble converting Fictionwise to an USA-only store like the Amazon Kindle store?

GeoffC
08-21-2009, 11:51 AM
It is the publishers who are being crazy - not FW ....

Ea
08-21-2009, 01:03 PM
I just leave my profile set to USA, because at the moment it seems that all the new books by popular writers at Fictionwise have geographic restrictions. Almost every book I buy at Fictionwise is only available for the USA.

I wonder how many customers they are losing because of these short-sighted restrictions? By restricting their sales to just the USA they are left with a market where they have to compete with Amazon/Kindle.
As the Fictionwise books cannot be read on the Kindle (at least for the average Kindle reader) they already loose half of that market. I wonder how long Fictionwise is able to make a profit that way? Or is Barnes & Noble converting Fictionwise to an USA-only store like the Amazon Kindle store?
AFAIK, it's the publishers who is to blame - and even, I think(?), the European publishers, who have the publishing rights for Europe. Apparently that restricts what can be sold from USA to Europe via download. Idiotic as it seems to us, there are little FW can do.

I must admit, I doubt that there are enough international customers to actually have much, if any, impact, or to make this issue a priority for anyone but us.

zerospinboson
08-21-2009, 01:18 PM
AFAIK, it's the publishers who is to blame - and even, I think(?), the European publishers, who have the publishing rights for Europe. Apparently that restricts what can be sold from USA to Europe via download. Idiotic as it seems to us, there are little FW can do.

I must admit, I doubt that there are enough international customers to actually have much, if any, impact, or to make this issue a priority for anyone but us.
*shrug*. It impacts 100% of prospective European buyers, as there are no real competitively priced (i.e. actively competing) european ebook stores yet, nor are they often very interesting, if they're interested in something other than 'local' publications. (For instance, I personally do not care for Dutch translations of, say, Dostoevsky; which is why I'm very happy to be able to order English-translated HCs from Amazon for less than a Dutch-translation pb will set you back).

Ea
08-21-2009, 01:24 PM
*shrug*. It impacts 100% of prospective European buyers, as there are no real competitively priced (i.e. actively competing) european ebook stores yet, nor are they often very interesting, if they're interested in something other than 'local' publications.....
Of course it does, but I doubt that there are that many of us in comparison to the USA market, that are interested enough in fiction in English (except Britain) to be a market segment worth worrying that much about. If ebooks make up 1.8% of the USA market, and about 50% of ebook readers sold is Kindles (the latest figures I've read), how many prospective customers do you think there are in Europe?

DawnFalcon
08-21-2009, 03:14 PM
how many prospective customers do you think there are in Europe?

It'd be interesting to ask the ebook sellers who don't restrict sales on geolocation (Baen...um...anyone else?) about this.

Ea
08-21-2009, 03:24 PM
how many prospective customers do you think there are in Europe?
It'd be interesting to ask the ebook sellers who don't restrict sales on geolocation (Baen...um...anyone else?) about this.
A good question, though your quote takes it out of context - I was talking about prospective buyers of English-language books (primarily fiction). Baen is a bit specialised, since they sell mostly fantasy and sci-fi, though I can imagine that a lot of us gadget lovers and ebook device first-mover types are the ones who buy books in English and read more sci-fi and fantasy than the general population.

I read in the paper today, about an editor at a Danish publishing house, who had a Sony 505 but only used it for manuscripts. She'd never bought an ebook for download, but stuck with p-books. I assume she prefer Danish for leisure reading.

JSWolf
08-21-2009, 03:25 PM
What's silly is they'll restrict eBooks, but not pBooks.

Baen has the rights in the contract. So they can sell world wide.

Ea
08-21-2009, 03:28 PM
What's silly is they'll restrict eBooks, but not pBooks.

....
Yes, but apparently ebooks are software :rolleyes:

DawnFalcon
08-22-2009, 12:10 AM
A good question, though your quote takes it out of context - I was talking about prospective buyers of English-language books (primarily fiction).

Well yes, but are there any fiction publishers who use worldwide liscences for ebooks? I used Baen there because they do, and they've been open to discussing some data before (I'm thinking per-continent here).

I'd agree more reprisentative data would be good, but this is a case of the data we might potentially be able to get, because I don't think that reprisentative data exists.

sianon
08-22-2009, 12:49 AM
What is truly ridiculous is an Australian based store selling titles that have geographical restrictions which mean the e-book cannot be purchased in Australia, however if I lived in the philipines I could. http://www.ebooks.com/ebooks/book_display.asp?IID=347073 I actually purchased the book with no issues from Waterstones.

moespook
08-22-2009, 09:49 AM
[QUOTE=geertm;562568]I just leave my profile set to USA, because at the moment it seems that all the new books by popular writers at Fictionwise have geographic restrictions. Almost every book I buy at Fictionwise is only available for the USA.

I just downloaded some books supplying an US address in my profile. I don't like having to do this, makes me feel like a criminal :o I wonder if keeping this address in the profile has dire consequences I'm unaware of now. I don't think so really, can't think of any. I hope this method will keep on 'working', lots of books I want are US customers only :angry:

GeoffC
08-23-2009, 06:44 AM
[QUOTE=geertm;562568]I just leave my profile set to USA, because at the moment it seems that all the new books by popular writers at Fictionwise have geographic restrictions. Almost every book I buy at Fictionwise is only available for the USA.

I just downloaded some books supplying an US address in my profile. I don't like having to do this, makes me feel like a criminal :o I wonder if keeping this address in the profile has dire consequences I'm unaware of now. I don't think so really, can't think of any. I hope this method will keep on 'working', lots of books I want are US customers only :angry:

i could not agree more - i'm more worried about what would happen if the publishers discovered the ploy and penalised Fictionwise.......

tompe
08-23-2009, 07:43 AM
It is the publishers who are being crazy - not FW ....

And the customers that cirumvents that. They destroy the feedback system by continuing buying books and will delay the change of the contracts.

You also get threads here that encourage to immoral behaviour (lying).

kaan
08-23-2009, 01:24 PM
And the customers that cirumvents that. They destroy the feedback system by continuing buying books and will delay the change of the contracts.

You also get threads here that encourage to immoral behaviour (lying).

Falsifying a document in a trade agreement is fraud.
Doing it to circumvent trade restrictions might be worse.
In Denmark it would be a criminal offence. I'm not sure about the rest of the world.

Again we are in a situation, where absurd restrictions are making criminals of normal paying customers.

tompe
08-23-2009, 01:43 PM
Falsifying a document in a trade agreement is fraud.
Doing it to circumvent trade restrictions might be worse.
In Denmark it would be a criminal offence. I'm not sure about the rest of the world.

Again we are in a situation, where absurd restrictions are making criminals of normal paying customers.

Strangely enough we have not got a lot of warnings about this from the "be aware this might be illegal in your country" crowd. When you download from the darknet you do not have to lie at least so it seems to me to be less immoral.

Ea
08-23-2009, 02:07 PM
Strangely enough we have not got a lot of warnings about this from the "be aware this might be illegal in your country" crowd. When you download from the darknet you do not have to lie at least so it seems to me to be less immoral.
Umm.... Usually you'd know that when you're downloading material where copyright has been breached, you're most likely doing somethng illegal - is that more moral (following your logic) than paying, but lying about your location?

tompe
08-23-2009, 03:20 PM
Umm.... Usually you'd know that when you're downloading material where copyright has been breached, you're most likely doing somethng illegal - is that more moral (following your logic) than paying, but lying about your location?

Lying about your location was illegal also according to a comment here. That was the context I made my comment in.

But yes personally I think it is more problematic lying than breaking an immoral law. But other will of course have other opinions about that.

kaan
08-23-2009, 03:57 PM
Strangely enough we have not got a lot of warnings about this from the "be aware this might be illegal in your country" crowd. When you download from the darknet you do not have to lie at least so it seems to me to be less immoral.

There hasn't been any commercials on TV that tells you its wrong to falsify legal documents :rolleyes:

As for the moral part ... Well, I think that each person should decide for him/herself where the fine line goes. I'm not one to pass judgement on others (although I can be a bit provocative towards people who has glaring inconsistencies in their moral code).

Ea
08-23-2009, 03:58 PM
Lying about your location was illegal also according to a comment here. That was the context I made my comment in.

I assumed that context - i.e. both situations I talked about would be illegal.

kaan
08-23-2009, 04:03 PM
Umm.... Usually you'd know that when you're downloading material where copyright has been breached, you're most likely doing somethng illegal - is that more moral (following your logic) than paying, but lying about your location?

I'm curious, where do you stand on this issue?

tompe
08-23-2009, 04:08 PM
I assumed that context - i.e. both situations I talked about would be illegal.

Then I misunderstood. Well illegal+lying can eaily be worse than illegal which was my point.

Ea
08-23-2009, 04:19 PM
I'm curious, where do you stand on this issue?
Heh, I bought a geographically restricted book from FW just this afternoon.

kaan
08-23-2009, 04:47 PM
Heh, I bought a geographically restricted book from FW just this afternoon.

Very shortly; copyright law is a good thing, though the current life+70 is far, far too much, it only favours those extremely few authors whose fame last more than 5-20 years, and it restrict fair use far too severely.
If I see a book for sale at FW, I find it extremely frustrating that I cannot buy it just because I don't live in the USA, but since it's so easy to circumvent, I might buy it anyway. It's 'wrong' but not 'wrong' enough not to do. You are Danish, you know how we tend to wait for green light at traffic crossings, even if there is no cars? This feels less bad ;) In this case, I am paying - not paying is morally worse. I also strip the DRM, but from what I can read at the site of the ministry of culture (http://www.infokiosk.dk/sw9430.asp), this might be within the intent of the law, if not the letter.

I doubt that you will be put in front of a judge for this crime :D

I does feel much more legal when you have paid for the privilege of reading a book. None the less it is just as much a breach of copyright law to remove DRM as if you found it in the deep cellars of the internet.

https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms/R0710.aspx?id=117519
kapitel 6 a ( 75 b-75 e)

There is a fair use exception, but it is very specific, and probably not relevant if your reader is compatible with the DRM in question.

Danish copyright law is an almost verbatim copy of the US DMCA and I think it should be rebuild from the ground up. It makes me a criminal even though I don't feel like one.

tompe
08-23-2009, 05:12 PM
You are Danish, you know how we tend to wait for green light at traffic crossings, even if there is no cars?

In Sweden they changed the laws so there is no punishment for walking against red so nobody waits nowadays. I am going to Copenhagen for a science fiction convention next weekend (http://www.fantasticon.dk/fantasticon2009/) so I might have to change my behavior.

Ea
08-23-2009, 05:27 PM
)
There is a fair use exception, but it is very specific, and probably not relevant if your reader is compatible with the DRM in question.

Danish copyright law is an almost verbatim copy of the US DMCA and I think it should be rebuild from the ground up. It makes me a criminal even though I don't feel like one.
AFAIK the exception is if you don't have hardware to play/wiew your file. Since I have a sony Reader, I couldn't use any of the file formats offered on that, but I did have the opportunity to use it on my computer. Silly, isn't it? The current copyright is really made with media files (music and video) in mind, not books. I mean, it is legal to make a make a photocopy (analogue copy) of a book I borrow, but only legal to make a digital copy of the book if I own it. The first instance is much easier and will probably give me the copy with the least errors.

I'll look into the site you linked to, tomorrow. Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

Ea
08-23-2009, 05:29 PM
In Sweden they changed the laws so there is no punishment for walking against red so nobody waits nowadays. I am going to Copenhagen for a science fiction convention next weekend (http://www.fantasticon.dk/fantasticon2009/) so I might have to change my behavior.
Oh, you will have to - or you will get STARED at!! If there's anyone around at the time, that is :D :rofl:

Have a great con! :)

DawnFalcon
08-23-2009, 06:06 PM
I assumed that context - i.e. both situations I talked about would be illegal.

Yea, but.

Unauthorised copying is a civil offence.
Falsfying details is often a criminal offence, not a civil one.

Neither are right, but...

Personally I hold with "if you want my business, you have to be willing to deal with me". It is not coincidence that the vast majority of my ebooks are from Baen.

zerospinboson
08-23-2009, 07:54 PM
Yea, but.

Unauthorised copying is a civil offence.
Falsfying details is often a criminal offence, not a civil one.

Neither are right, but...

Personally I hold with "if you want my business, you have to be willing to deal with me". It is not coincidence that the vast majority of my ebooks are from Baen.
*shrug*
And that works well for you because you mostly read books from the genres Baen offers. If you'd had different interests, you would have to rationalize your (different) choices differently. ;)

DawnFalcon
08-23-2009, 08:55 PM
*shrug*
And that works well for you because you mostly read books from the genres Baen offers. If you'd had different interests, you would have to rationalize your (different) choices differently. ;)

Actually I read a fairly wide range of books.

But I won't buy DRM'ed books, I'll buy either non-DRM'ed ebooks, or I'll wait for the paperback (and fairly frequently the paperback second hand).

HansTWN
08-23-2009, 10:55 PM
Then I misunderstood. Well illegal+lying can eaily be worse than illegal which was my point.

When you are lying about your location you are not committing a crime because you are not doing it on a passport or visa application or a similar document. The location is only important to the ebook publisher/distributor. By lying you are providing an easy alibi for Fictionwise. Actually you are helping everybody -- Fictionwise and the distributor get their money and they can pretend they have done everything they could. I think they might have created this loophole on purpose, it would be extremely easy to fix it.

The same thing doesn't work on iTunes, at the Sony store, etc. It is quite possible that Fictionwise might get into trouble for being negligent. But the worst that could happen is that the publisher/distributor cancels their contract.

barkinglemur
09-11-2009, 07:54 AM
Here's something that worries me. I followed a lot of the advice here to buy some books from Fictionwise, but what I got doesn't seem to have happened to anyone else. I ordered about $35 of ebooks - using my UK address, with country set to US. Everything went peachy keen until I checked my online mastercard account a few minutes later and found I'd been billed for ... 35 pounds UK! That's over sixty dollars US.

I have no idea how that came about, especially since I've not had any problems doing this before. And no, I haven't written to Fictionwise yet to ask them what's going on, in case they have an issue with me using a UK credit card to buy geographically restricted stuff from their store and tell me to sod off.

What's worse is I used a 25% off discount they sent me in return for doing an online survey, and that didn't process either. They charged me the full whack.

GeoffC
09-13-2009, 06:50 AM
Here's something that worries me. I followed a lot of the advice here to buy some books from Fictionwise, but what I got doesn't seem to have happened to anyone else. I ordered about $35 of ebooks - using my UK address, with country set to US. Everything went peachy keen until I checked my online mastercard account a few minutes later and found I'd been billed for ... 35 pounds UK! That's over sixty dollars US.

I have no idea how that came about, especially since I've not had any problems doing this before. And no, I haven't written to Fictionwise yet to ask them what's going on, in case they have an issue with me using a UK credit card to buy geographically restricted stuff from their store and tell me to sod off.

What's worse is I used a 25% off discount they sent me in return for doing an online survey, and that didn't process either. They charged me the full whack.

:chinscratch:

worrying .. ..

Margrete
09-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Has fictionwise started tightening their relaxed procedures for geographical restrictions? The last few times I've tried to buy something from them in september with my creditcard and land set to US I get this message: One or more required fields contained missing or invalid values [INDICATED IN RED]. Please go back and make sure you fill in the required fields. The only thing in red is my address and the only invalid thing there is the country. When I changed it to Norway and bought some ebooks without geografic restrictions then it went through without problems. Anyone else had the same problems?

My fictionwise buywise club doesn't expire untill 2012, bought a 5 year membership 2 years ago and now it seems it's going to be a waste of money if I can't buy the books I want :angry:

geertm
09-13-2009, 04:28 PM
Has fictionwise started tightening their relaxed procedures for geographical restrictions? The last few times I've tried to buy something from them in september with my creditcard and land set to US I get this message: The only thing in red is my address and the only invalid thing there is the country. When I changed it to Norway and bought some ebooks without geografic restrictions then it went through without problems. Anyone else had the same problems?


They now check if the address is a valid USA address (when using USA as your country). Just use a valid USA address (look one up on Google), instead of your Norwegian address, and you can still use your creditcard to pay for the books (they still do not check your address at the creditcard company).
This works fine with my Dutch Visa card.

Gibbo
09-13-2009, 04:43 PM
The way I do it has been mentioned here many times and it's as follows: Add money to your Micropay account then change your country to US and purchase the books, I've just done it with no problems :)

columbus
09-13-2009, 05:10 PM
Here's something that worries me. I followed a lot of the advice here to buy some books from Fictionwise, but what I got doesn't seem to have happened to anyone else. I ordered about $35 of ebooks - using my UK address, with country set to US. Everything went peachy keen until I checked my online mastercard account a few minutes later and found I'd been billed for ... 35 pounds UK! That's over sixty dollars US.

I have no idea how that came about, especially since I've not had any problems doing this before. And no, I haven't written to Fictionwise yet to ask them what's going on, in case they have an issue with me using a UK credit card to buy geographically restricted stuff from their store and tell me to sod off.

What's worse is I used a 25% off discount they sent me in return for doing an online survey, and that didn't process either. They charged me the full whack.

Presumably when you checked your card a few minutes later it was showing as a 'pending' transaction. What is the sum when it becomes an actual charge to your card? If it is mis charged you can certainly take it up with your CC provider.

zerospinboson
09-13-2009, 06:15 PM
The way I do it has been mentioned here many times and it's as follows: Add money to your Micropay account then change your country to US and purchase the books, I've just done it with no problems :)
Seen these?http://www.fictionwise.com/Images/100rebateCC_Icon.gifhttp://www.fictionwise.com/Images/50rebateCC_Icon.gif

Gibbo
09-13-2009, 06:41 PM
Seen these?http://www.fictionwise.com/Images/100rebateCC_Icon.gifhttp://www.fictionwise.com/Images/50rebateCC_Icon.gif

I don't mind as long as I can get the ebook.

fugazied
09-13-2009, 08:23 PM
It's annoying as hell, but until the publishing mess is sorted there isn't much we can do. It's strange how music companies and tv/film companies got it together so quickly (go to itunes and you can buy almost anything from any country).

However publishers still have country by country licensing restrictions, many different publishers working in conjunction, it's all an archaic mess and doesn't fit well with the global nature of the internet.

barkinglemur
09-14-2009, 01:57 AM
Presumably when you checked your card a few minutes later it was showing as a 'pending' transaction. What is the sum when it becomes an actual charge to your card? If it is mis charged you can certainly take it up with your CC provider.

Duh. I never noticed that before. Yeah, it's still a pending transaction; possibly I was too busy in remedial toenail-picking class and head-scratching lecture at idiot school to notice the 'pending' on the screen. I actually wrote to them after all, but by the looks of it I might even drop them an apology ...

HansTWN
09-14-2009, 03:07 AM
It's annoying as hell, but until the publishing mess is sorted there isn't much we can do. It's strange how music companies and tv/film companies got it together so quickly (go to itunes and you can buy almost anything from any country).

However publishers still have country by country licensing restrictions, many different publishers working in conjunction, it's all an archaic mess and doesn't fit well with the global nature of the internet.

itunes is worse, you cannot buy anything from any store if you do not have a local credit card and mailing address. And the US store is much cheaper, it also has by far the widest selection.

Margrete
09-14-2009, 05:22 AM
They now check if the address is a valid USA address (when using USA as your country). Just use a valid USA address (look one up on Google), instead of your Norwegian address, and you can still use your creditcard to pay for the books (they still do not check your address at the creditcard company).
This works fine with my Dutch Visa card.

thanks I'll try, but somehow I don't think it'll work for me. Before the geographic restrictions came if I had the wrong address then I got a message that the payment wouldn't go through.

Margrete
09-14-2009, 05:26 AM
I don't mind as long as I can get the ebook.

I do lol, with so many ebooks (and other books) that I buy during a year if I can save some money with the rebates then I want to do it. I don't know how many 1000 of dollars I spend on books during a year and I don't think I want to find out either

I only use the micropay method when I don't have any other option like last night and I want the book now

barkinglemur
09-14-2009, 12:40 PM
May I just say those very, very nice people at Fictionwise got in touch after my mail, and apparently my order went through twice, so they've refunded a big chunk of money back to me and sorted everything out. So all is well.

geertm
09-14-2009, 02:16 PM
thanks I'll try, but somehow I don't think it'll work for me. Before the geographic restrictions came if I had the wrong address then I got a message that the payment wouldn't go through.

I have just bought 5 region restricted books at Fictionwise, using my Dutch Visa card with an USA address. So I can confirm that this still works.
3 100% rebates, paid $72, rebates $62 :)

Mnementh
09-14-2009, 07:03 PM
I have just bought 5 region restricted books at Fictionwise, using my Dutch Visa card with an USA address. So I can confirm that this still works.
3 100% rebates, paid $72, rebates $62 :)

I've just tried that with my UK Visa Debit card and it didn't work :( It appears they do check the address either for some countries or for some card issuers.

Oh well I'll have to buy some Micropay Dollars by the look of things...

Terisa de morgan
09-15-2009, 03:41 AM
Today I've found a curious thing. My country is included in the list of allowed purchases (quite reasonable, I don't think that a publisher in Spain is going to publish any e-book in English, they don't do it in Spanish :( ). And other curious thing, I pre-ordered a book, and it wasn't geographically restricted, but now it's and it doesn't include my country but I don't have any problem (cross my toes).

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 08:16 AM
I have just bought 5 region restricted books at Fictionwise, using my Dutch Visa card with an USA address. So I can confirm that this still works.
3 100% rebates, paid $72, rebates $62 :)

It has removed my credit card... And I can't find anywhere to enter a credit card anymore.. When I go to my cart, I only get the option Paypal or micropay...


Update
if I add a credit card at the Secure eReader Unlock Code, I do get the option to download an ereader book using that code. But no option in my cart. And I can't download that one ereader book in my bookshelf that I haven't downloaded yet. It is geographical restricted.

Margrete
09-15-2009, 08:45 AM
I've just tried that with my UK Visa Debit card and it didn't work :( It appears they do check the address either for some countries or for some card issuers.

Oh well I'll have to buy some Micropay Dollars by the look of things...


didn't work for me either, tried yesterday :(

And as with sweetpea I no longer have the option of paying with my creditcard. I just checked it out. What's going on?

geertm
09-15-2009, 09:58 AM
didn't work for me either, tried yesterday :(

And as with sweetpea I no longer have the option of paying with my creditcard. I just checked it out. What's going on?

The country in your Fictionwise account must be set to USA. Otherwise you will not get the creditcard option when you try to pay for region restricted books.

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 11:10 AM
The country in your Fictionwise account must be set to USA. Otherwise you will not get the creditcard option when you try to pay for region restricted books.

Is not it.

I put my country to USA, and I have a multiformat in my cart, without restriction. No CC option.

pdurrant
09-15-2009, 11:25 AM
How much is your cart total? I suspect that there's a minimum total for CC payment.

I put my country to USA, and I have a multiformat in my cart, without restriction. No CC option.

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 01:20 PM
How much is your cart total? I suspect that there's a minimum total for CC payment.

Ahh, that worked...

Now I need to be able to download that book I bought... (payed by micropay, and now it's asking for a CC...)

pdurrant
09-15-2009, 01:50 PM
It's asking for a CC number to use in the eReader encoding.

Any CC number will do.

Now I need to be able to download that book I bought... (payed by micropay, and now it's asking for a CC...)

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 02:03 PM
It's asking for a CC number to use in the eReader encoding.

Any CC number will do.

No...

Your purchase location does not match the address for your payment type.

lesson learned: if you buy a geographical restricted book by using micropay, don't buy ereader books.

Mnementh
09-15-2009, 02:07 PM
lesson learned: if you buy a geographical restricted book by using micropay, don't buy ereader books.

I did this yesterday, bought two Jim Butcher books with Micropay (as the changing country trick to US no longer works for me) and had no problems downloading them.

I also pre-ordered the new Dan Brown novel for my mother and just downloaded it today with no problems.

As pdurrant mentioned if you have no CC listed with FW then they will not be able to encrypt the book for you to download. Have you tried contacting FW support to see if they can shed some light on the matter?

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 02:57 PM
I did this yesterday, bought two Jim Butcher books with Micropay (as the changing country trick to US no longer works for me) and had no problems downloading them.

I also pre-ordered the new Dan Brown novel for my mother and just downloaded it today with no problems.

As pdurrant mentioned if you have no CC listed with FW then they will not be able to encrypt the book for you to download. Have you tried contacting FW support to see if they can shed some light on the matter?
I do have one listed, my old one (at least, I can see that number when I go to another ereader book I've bought a long time ago). I can download my other two ereader books without problems with it. The Dan Brown says:

GEOGRAPHIC RESTRICTIONS: Only available to customers in: US, CA
Credit Card needed to verify download. Click here to set it.

Mnementh
09-15-2009, 03:48 PM
I do have one listed, my old one (at least, I can see that number when I go to another ereader book I've bought a long time ago). I can download my other two ereader books without problems with it. The Dan Brown says:

GEOGRAPHIC RESTRICTIONS: Only available to customers in: US, CA
Credit Card needed to verify download. Click here to set it.

Has your old credit card expired?

I ordered the Dan Brown yesterday, I had to use Micropay because when I tried to use my card I got the geographic restriction crap. I downloaded it 10 minutes before my last post with no problems.

Have you tried adding your current card (if you have one) and setting the country to US?

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 04:12 PM
Has your old credit card expired?

I ordered the Dan Brown yesterday, I had to use Micropay because when I tried to use my card I got the geographic restriction crap. I downloaded it 10 minutes before my last post with no problems.

Have you tried adding your current card (if you have one) and setting the country to US?

Yes and yes. Still doesn't work... :(

Mnementh
09-15-2009, 04:15 PM
Yes and yes. Still doesn't work... :(

I'm out of ideas then sorry :(

It's very strange that it works for some people and not others.

Sweetpea
09-15-2009, 04:19 PM
I'm out of ideas then sorry :(

It's very strange that it works for some people and not others.

There are other ways to get it... (and no, I don't feel bad about doing it, as I did pay for the book and won't return it, I just won't be able to download it from my bookshelf)

Mnementh
09-15-2009, 04:22 PM
There are other ways to get it... (and no, I don't feel bad about doing it, as I did pay for the book and won't return it, I just won't be able to download it from my bookshelf)

I totally agree with you, I do everything I can to get my books legally, however if I have stupid reasons put in front of me to stop me from doing so (such as said geographical crap) then I have no compunctions about straying to the dark side to get them.

pdurrant
09-15-2009, 04:39 PM
Hmm.. perhaps they're checking the Issuer Identification number at the start of the CC number. Weird.

I do have one listed, my old one (at least, I can see that number when I go to another ereader book I've bought a long time ago). I can download my other two ereader books without problems with it. The Dan Brown says:

GEOGRAPHIC RESTRICTIONS: Only available to customers in: US, CA
Credit Card needed to verify download. Click here to set it.

angryvegan
09-15-2009, 10:25 PM
It does look like they have changed something, I have had no issues buying books with micropay until today when I ordered the Dan Brown book, the purchase went thru but it won't let me download it from my bookshelf unless I enter a credit card (won't use the card I already have registered), changing the credit card address to the USA doesn't work.

Now I wait to see if they will refund it since they won't deliver it.

Stupid greedy publishers.

EDIT: Seems to be just this book..?

Sweetpea
09-16-2009, 04:40 AM
It does look like they have changed something, I have had no issues buying books with micropay until today when I ordered the Dan Brown book, the purchase went thru but it won't let me download it from my bookshelf unless I enter a credit card (won't use the card I already have registered), changing the credit card address to the USA doesn't work.

Now I wait to see if they will refund it since they won't deliver it.

Stupid greedy publishers.

EDIT: Seems to be just this book..?

It might be every secure ereader book. As that one needs a CC to download. As mobipocket is my preferred format, I've only ever bought 1 other ereader format book (that other book was a replacement for a mobipocket version earlier this year).

GeoffC
09-16-2009, 05:30 AM
Has fictionwise started tightening their relaxed procedures for geographical restrictions? The last few times I've tried to buy something from them in september with my creditcard and land set to US I get this message: The only thing in red is my address and the only invalid thing there is the country. When I changed it to Norway and bought some ebooks without geografic restrictions then it went through without problems. Anyone else had the same problems?

My fictionwise buywise club doesn't expire untill 2012, bought a 5 year membership 2 years ago and now it seems it's going to be a waste of money if I can't buy the books I want :angry:


Get your money back - i got mine refunded ....

GeoffC
09-16-2009, 05:32 AM
I've just tried that with my UK Visa Debit card and it didn't work :( It appears they do check the address either for some countries or for some card issuers.

Oh well I'll have to buy some Micropay Dollars by the look of things...



...and then the discounts won't be applied ...

Mnementh
09-16-2009, 11:46 AM
...and then the discounts won't be applied ...

It's only the big discounts and special offers that you don't get, you still get the club price and 15% rebates etc.

There's very few books I buy that have 100% rebates so it's not too bad for me. I've also just got an entropay CC which I'm gonna try shortly, if that works then all is good :)

Sweetpea
09-16-2009, 12:02 PM
I wish they would put a list up on what those regions are:

CA, PH, PR, UM, US, VI

CA I presume is Canada
US I presume is the USA

But the others?

The last book I bought with 100% rebate is LOTR.