View Full Version : New forum section that's not the lounge


JSWolf
03-17-2009, 04:34 AM
We seriously need a forum section for posts that do not exactly fit anyplace else and the lounge is not it. The lounge has been taken over by too much sillyness to make people try to wade through it to find posts that are not silly. We need to seperate the silly from the not silly. Some people may not want to wade through the silly and the not silly posts will just get lost. So can we have a forum section that's not the lounge for posts that are not meant to be silly? Either that or we create a new forum section just for the silly and move all the posts there and then those that do not want them can easily ignore it.

montsnmags
03-17-2009, 04:41 AM
Seeing as the particular section the above has been posted in is "News and Commentary", stated as particularly aimed at posts relating to the "Latest on e-books, e-paper, DRM and related technologies", and there's a section of the forums called "FeedbacK" particularly created for "Comments, questions and suggestions for MobileRead", perhaps this thread should be moved there, so that people do not have to wade through the News and Commentary posts to find this Feedback suggestion, and so that people reading News and Commentary don't have to skip Feedback posts to find News and Commentary items?

Cheers,
Marc

JSWolf
03-17-2009, 04:42 AM
It's a comment actually.

montsnmags
03-17-2009, 04:57 AM
It's a comment actually.

...and so perfectly suited to the Feedback section, which asks for "Comments, questions and suggestions for MobileRead". (bolded emphasis mine)

Cheers,
Marc

JSWolf
03-17-2009, 05:02 AM
I did think of that actually after the post was made. But seeing as I cannot move it, I just let it go.

montsnmags
03-17-2009, 05:04 AM
I did think of that actually after the post was made. But seeing as I cannot move it, I just let it go.

Fair enough. Chances are a mod' will be along forthwith, and will move it if they deem it necessary.

Cheers,
Marc

HarryT
03-17-2009, 05:09 AM
Moved.

GeoffC
03-19-2009, 03:42 PM
We seriously need a forum section for posts that do not exactly fit anyplace else and the lounge is not it. The lounge has been taken over by too much sillyness to make people try to wade through it to find posts that are not silly. We need to seperate the silly from the not silly. Some people may not want to wade through the silly and the not silly posts will just get lost. So can we have a forum section that's not the lounge for posts that are not meant to be silly? Either that or we create a new forum section just for the silly and move all the posts there and then those that do not want them can easily ignore it.


Perhaps we need a "washroom" ....

RickyMaveety
03-19-2009, 04:01 PM
or a bored room

JSWolf
03-19-2009, 04:51 PM
Well, we do need something because the Lounge has become something other then what it was meant to be. How about a PlayRoom where we can move all the silly from the lounge. That way if anyone wants to ignore it all, it's easy.

DixieGal
03-19-2009, 04:59 PM
I thought that was the purpose of the "silliness" label?

astra
03-20-2009, 01:36 PM
I thought that was the purpose of the "silliness" label?

Yeah but now it is all siliness and I don't like to filter through it to find some meaningful threads.
It would be nice if siliness was separated into forum of its own called Siliness or
I-have-to-much-time-on-my-hands-and-nothing-usefull-to-do-so-I-will-post-something-silly

pilotbob
03-20-2009, 01:39 PM
Yeah but now it is all siliness and I don't like to filter through it to find some meaningful threads.
It would be nice if siliness was separated into forum of its own called Siliness or

Yes, I think having a sub-forum in the lounge for sillness threads is a good idea.

That said the description for the lounge if for "NON ebook related discussions". the news thread is for discussion on news topics. So, there really isn't any type of general discussion topics.

BOb

astra
03-20-2009, 01:43 PM
Yes, I think having a sub-forum in the lounge for sillness threads is a good idea.

That said the description for the lounge if for "NON ebook related discussions". the news thread is for discussion on news topics. So, there really isn't any type of general discussion topics.

BOb

Well, if you look through the lounge you will see probably half or at least 1/3 of the topics are not silly?

zelda_pinwheel
03-20-2009, 05:26 PM
Well, if you look through the lounge you will see probably half or at least 1/3 of the topics are not silly?

which goes to show that silly and serious discussions can harmoniously co-exist in the lounge, which is after all why it is there.

astra
03-20-2009, 05:35 PM
which goes to show that silly and serious discussions can harmoniously co-exist in the lounge, which is after all why it is there.

For those who participate in both.

rhadin
03-20-2009, 05:36 PM
We seriously need a forum section for posts that do not exactly fit anyplace else and the lounge is not it. The lounge has been taken over by too much sillyness to make people try to wade through it to find posts that are not silly. We need to seperate the silly from the not silly. Some people may not want to wade through the silly and the not silly posts will just get lost. So can we have a forum section that's not the lounge for posts that are not meant to be silly? Either that or we create a new forum section just for the silly and move all the posts there and then those that do not want them can easily ignore it.

Great idea and one that gets my vote. I never read anything in the Lounge for exactly the reasons given. I already have too much to read during and too little time to do so.

zelda_pinwheel
03-20-2009, 05:44 PM
actually this has already been discussed among the moderators quite a while ago, and it's been agreed that it's not necessary, and would not go towards simplifying the use of the forum for all members, which is the overreaching goal. there are many ways to filter content, and it's easy enough to skip over the silly threads in the lounge if you aren't interested in them ; the "silliness" prefix makes that even easier. among other things, the lounge often serves as a less intimidating entry point to the forum for new or inexperienced members while they are learning about the technical questions, and we want new members to feel welcome and comfortable here.

there are plenty of different forums here for all ebook related topics ; anything not concerned with ebooks that you would like to discuss can find a home in the lounge, including serious discussion about not specifically ebook-related topics. everyone is welcome to start a discussion there on any topic.

serious discussions about books can be had in the reading recommendations forum, about writing in the writers' forum, about formats, devices, conversion etc. in their respective forums.

there is plenty of room in all the forums here for discussions about any topic you are interested in. conversely, there are plenty of ways to avoid topics which don't interest you. please feel free to join in or not join in any discussion, and to start your own threads about any topics you'd like to discuss, including in the lounge. :)

pilotbob
03-20-2009, 09:45 PM
What do people think of the idea of changing the description of the lounge to something like:

General discussions and friendly banter unrelated to e-books and mobile devices


???

BOb

Nate the great
03-20-2009, 09:50 PM
I was wondering when it would be changed to "The Llounge".

desertgrandma
03-20-2009, 11:02 PM
Its called "The Lounge" because its a good place to go and be silly or just relax with friends without having to deal with serious book or ebook device related issues.

As far as there being "too much" silliness...I disagree.

People need the ability to express, in anyway they can, their discontent, frustrations, or pain of day to day living.

There is plenty of serious discussions going on anyone can join in on.

And please, don't rename to some generic "non-ebook related discussions." Sounds like every other e-book site out there.

This is MobileRead. You don't have to ever click on the Lounge if you don't want to. Just pass us by........live and let live.

But we love it......at least I do!

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 12:32 AM
And please, don't rename to some generic "non-ebook related discussions." Sounds like every other e-book site out there.


Um... DG that is already how it IS described:

Friendly banter unrelated to e-books and mobile devices

I just suggested changing it to:

General discussions and friendly banter unrelated to e-books and mobile devices

Help people know that it is not just for "banter".

banter
noun
the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks

BOb

desertgrandma
03-21-2009, 12:37 AM
Um... DG that is already how it IS described:

Friendly banter unrelated to e-books and mobile devices

I just suggested changing it to:

General discussions and friendly banter unrelated to e-books and mobile devices

Help people know that it is not just for "banter".

banter
noun
the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks

BOb

Well, the description is correct, but the name of the forum is "The Lounge"

THATS what I was asking not be re-named.

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 12:42 AM
Well, the description is correct, but the name of the forum is "The Lounge"

THATS what I was asking not be re-named.

Ah. Well, I didn't suggest that. And I'm pretty sure Nate was kidding, although I don't "get" his joke. I usually don't.

BOb

desertgrandma
03-21-2009, 12:44 AM
Ah. Well, I didn't suggest that. And I'm pretty sure Nate was kidding, although I don't "get" his joke. I usually don't.

BOb

Thats okay I"m not getting much of anything tonight.

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 12:44 AM
Thats okay I"m not getting much of anything tonight.

Maybe we should both get to bed.

BOb

Nate the great
03-21-2009, 12:46 AM
Ah. Well, I didn't suggest that. And I'm pretty sure Nate was kidding, although I don't "get" his joke. I usually don't.

BOb

It wasn't my idea originally. I'm not even sure where it came from. You should do a search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr2jlCyCJBI) on the word to find out more.

desertgrandma
03-21-2009, 12:46 AM
Maybe we should both get to bed.

BOb

Yeah, its been a long bad day.

Night all.

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 12:57 AM
It wasn't my idea originally. I'm not even sure where it came from. You should do a search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr2jlCyCJBI) on the word to find out more.

How is a youtube link going to help me search for this?

BOb

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 11:24 AM
Thats okay I"m not getting much of anything tonight.
Maybe we should both get to bed.
BOb


The mind boggles .... :rofl::rofl: I can see you both blushing from here ....


The Lounge; In a household, is this not the location where the family meets, talks, jokes and play the odd little game? Sometimes with snacks and a glass or two of wine/beer/spirit - No television, but conversation about TV and programs are fine.

Away from the books and related matters - they are in the library (The main part of MobileRead).

desertgrandma
03-21-2009, 12:13 PM
The mind boggles .... :rofl::rofl: I can see you both blushing from here ....



'sigh. I just knew when I thought about it someone would take that wrong, but I was too tired to care........:)

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 01:02 PM
The mind boggles .... :rofl::rofl: I can see you both blushing from here ....

You don't really think I accidentally posted a double entendre did you?

BOb

zelda_pinwheel
03-21-2009, 01:03 PM
You don't really think I accidentally posted a double entendre did you?

BOb

you ? surely not. especially not in the feedback section. :rolleyes:

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 01:06 PM
you ? surely not. especially not in the feedback section. :rolleyes:

I think the double negative confused your post. You are saying it SURLY WAS an accident because it is NOT in the lounge, right?? :blink:

Or it was SURLY NOT an accident?

BOb

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 01:07 PM
'sigh. I just knew when I thought about it someone would take that wrong, but I was too tired to care........:)

You don't really think I accidentally posted a double entendre did you?

BOb

you ? surely not. especially not in the feedback section. :rolleyes: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I think the double negative confused your post. You are saying it SURLY WAS an accident because it is NOT in the lounge, right?? :blink:

BOb

zelda_pinwheel
03-21-2009, 01:07 PM
I think the double negative confused your post. You are saying it SURLY WAS an accident because it is NOT in the lounge, right?? :blink:

BOb

oh, no need to overthink it. i'm saying i would NEVER question your gentlemanly nature. particularly outside of the lounge. :D

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 01:08 PM
oh, no need to overthink it. i'm saying i would NEVER question your gentlemanly nature. particularly outside of the lounge. :D


squiringly ?

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 01:08 PM
oh, no need to overthink it. i'm saying i would NEVER question your gentlemanly nature. particularly outside of the lounge. :D

Why thank you My Lady.

BOb

zelda_pinwheel
03-21-2009, 01:09 PM
sorry, i should have said "your squiriferous nature". (and you're welcome. ;))

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 01:09 PM
sorry, i should have said "your squiriferous nature". (and you're welcome. ;))

that's the word I couldn't recall - ta ....

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 01:10 PM
oh, no need to overthink it. i'm saying i would NEVER question your gentlemanly nature. particularly outside of the lounge. :D

Wait... what? Are you saying we CAN'T be silly out side of the lounge? If that is the case, then I must most certainly be flogged.

BOb

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 01:10 PM
Okay, who do you want selling to .... ?

zelda_pinwheel
03-21-2009, 01:14 PM
crikey ! flogged ?? i would NEVER suggest that !


(with a few possible exceptions...)

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 01:15 PM
crikey ! flogged ?? i would NEVER suggest that !
(with a few possible exceptions...)

But you would watch in glee. :eek:

Of course, the flogging would be with a wet noodle!

BOb

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 01:23 PM
But you would watch in glee. :eek:

Of course, the flogging would be with a wet noodle!

BOb


closely followed by a guilloting with a slice of soggy lasagne

desertgrandma
03-21-2009, 01:32 PM
How much for tickets?

GeoffC
03-21-2009, 01:36 PM
How many does madam require?

desertgrandma
03-21-2009, 02:10 PM
How many does madam require?

Well, lets see. The entire population of Mobilica Republica for starts......put in on our amex card, please.

JSWolf
03-21-2009, 02:46 PM
which goes to show that silly and serious discussions can harmoniously co-exist in the lounge, which is after all why it is there.
Not really to be honest. It's easier to just have a seperate forum for the silly where we can ignore it if we want.

JSWolf
03-21-2009, 02:48 PM
actually this has already been discussed among the moderators quite a while ago, and it's been agreed that it's not necessary, and would not go towards simplifying the use of the forum for all members, which is the overreaching goal. there are many ways to filter content, and it's easy enough to skip over the silly threads in the lounge if you aren't interested in them ; the "silliness" prefix makes that even easier. among other things, the lounge often serves as a less intimidating entry point to the forum for new or inexperienced members while they are learning about the technical questions, and we want new members to feel welcome and comfortable here.

there are plenty of different forums here for all ebook related topics ; anything not concerned with ebooks that you would like to discuss can find a home in the lounge, including serious discussion about not specifically ebook-related topics. everyone is welcome to start a discussion there on any topic.

serious discussions about books can be had in the reading recommendations forum, about writing in the writers' forum, about formats, devices, conversion etc. in their respective forums.

there is plenty of room in all the forums here for discussions about any topic you are interested in. conversely, there are plenty of ways to avoid topics which don't interest you. please feel free to join in or not join in any discussion, and to start your own threads about any topics you'd like to discuss, including in the lounge. :)
The thing is, I want to ignore most of the silly and I cannot do that if it's mixed in with non-silly. This is for when I am looking at the list of new posts. So is there a way to ignore the silly and not the rest of the lounge?

JSWolf
03-21-2009, 02:50 PM
What do people think of the idea of changing the description of the lounge to something like:

General discussions and friendly banter unrelated to e-books and mobile devices


???

BOb
But the problem is that we need a place where we can have discussions that do not fit into the current forum sections and are not silly. So just relabeling the Lounge won't cut it. A new forum section is what's needed.

astra
03-21-2009, 03:02 PM
I believe this topic is a very good example why lounge should be separated to a different sub-forum where people may hijack any threads and post any number of meaningless posts while in other sub-forums certain rules about off-topics etc., might actually be respected.

IMO naturally.

Marysart
03-21-2009, 04:13 PM
I believe this topic is a very good example why lounge should be separated to a different sub-forum where people may hijack any threads and post any number of meaningless posts while in other sub-forums certain rules about off-topics etc., might actually be respected.

IMO naturally.

Agreed. This topic does illustrate the problem. The way I navigate the board is through clicking new posts.
Maybe there could be a new posts search without the lounge, such as the new posts without the ebook uploads search?

On another board I belong to there is a forum section called miscellaneous.
There, you can search for new posts since your last visit with ,or without
miscellaneous.
Thus enabling you to ignore this section if you want to.

In the miscellaneous section people can slow chat etc. to their harts contend and anything not pertaining to the subject of the board can be discussed.

JSWolf
03-21-2009, 04:18 PM
I agree completely. I started this thread as a serious topic and it gets hijacked and turned into something silly. The who issue is to get away from the silly and let those that want ti have it. But those that don't should not have to have it. The lounge has been hijacked and now there is no proper place to post messages not meant to be made silly. We have to wade through lots of silly threads to find the lounge messages that are not silly. There is another option. Do away with the silly message threads if we cannot have them separated.

And we have moderators participating in trying to derail this thread (yes, you know who you are). So why not do your moderator duties and keep this thread on track since it's not supported to be silly. I hate to say this, but all the silly messages in the thread really should be deleted.

ProfJulie
03-21-2009, 04:29 PM
I agree, I really get tired of reading through all the silliness in posts that start out honestly wanting a discussion. This thread is a good example of why I don't spend much time in these forums any more...as soon as the posts get hijacked, I stop visiting.

zelda_pinwheel
03-21-2009, 04:35 PM
Please re-read the explanation i gave previously in this thread :

actually this has already been discussed among the moderators quite a while ago, and it's been agreed that it's not necessary, and would not go towards simplifying the use of the forum for all members, which is the overreaching goal. there are many ways to filter content, and it's easy enough to skip over the silly threads in the lounge if you aren't interested in them ; the "silliness" prefix makes that even easier. among other things, the lounge often serves as a less intimidating entry point to the forum for new or inexperienced members while they are learning about the technical questions, and we want new members to feel welcome and comfortable here.

there are plenty of different forums here for all ebook related topics ; anything not concerned with ebooks that you would like to discuss can find a home in the lounge, including serious discussion about not specifically ebook-related topics. everyone is welcome to start a discussion there on any topic.

serious discussions about books can be had in the reading recommendations forum, about writing in the writers' forum, about formats, devices, conversion etc. in their respective forums.

there is plenty of room in all the forums here for discussions about any topic you are interested in. conversely, there are plenty of ways to avoid topics which don't interest you. please feel free to join in or not join in any discussion, and to start your own threads about any topics you'd like to discuss, including in the lounge. :)

This topic has already been discussed previously at length and Alex has decided that it is not a good idea.

ANY topic which does not obviously belong in one of the other forums can be discussed in the lounge ; please feel free to start a thread there any time. If you would like to have a serious discussion, do not add the "Silliness" thread prefix.

Regarding filtering content, this is what Alex said about that in the original discussion :

We have so many ways to filter out content we don't like to deal with. We can hide entire sections from appearing in New Posts; we can ignore individual users and the threads started by them; we can guide our reading by thread prefixes. I don't find it difficult to jump over threads containing content I don't feel like spending my time with.

if you navigate the site by looking at the "new threads" and want to exclude a particular sub-forum, you can simply double-click on the small arrow icon in front of its name in the forum listing to mark all threads as read ; then, they will not appear in the "new posts" list.

You can also create your own personal filter to display only the forums which interest you.

You can easily skip over threads that you do not want to read and guide yourself by prefixes.

I do not think there is anything more productive to say about this topic, since a decision has already been made by Alex, who is the owner of the site and therefore has the final say.

If you have any questions about how to filter content by hiding specific sub forums, please take a look at the forum FAQ (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/faq.php). If you don't find the answer you are looking for there, please feel free to start a new thread to ask.

This thread is closed.

:closed:

pilotbob
03-21-2009, 11:55 PM
Agreed. This topic does illustrate the problem. The way I navigate the board is through clicking new posts.

You can go into your profile and set up forums exclusions. This will only exclude it from the new posts search/display. It does not ignore them 100%. for example, you can still see them if you have subscribed to the threads when you go to your CP.

I have the lounge, the foreign language, and several other threads ignored for new search.

I usually start at my CP, and read the threads I have subscribed to with new posts in them. I remove the subscription to the thread if the thread has gone where I don't care about. I have my settings set to subscribe (no notification) to any thread I post into.

Next I will go to the "new posts" and go through all those threads. If there are alot only those that interest me.

Then, if I have time I will go to the Lounge and see if there are any new posts/threads that interest me. If not, I mark all read in the Lounge.

BOb

BTW: Actually the above is a bit wrong. I usually start with a search for new messages in the reported posts thread. Of course, only a moderator can do this. We like to catch reports and deal with them ASAP.

Nate the great
03-22-2009, 08:39 AM
I opened the thread again. I didn't think it should be closed. Harry didn't think it should be closed.

Continuing the discussion, Harry and I are both in favor of a new subforum.

This thread should have given you a hint of why that wouldn't work. his was a serious thread in a serious forum, and it still got "hijacked". I hope everyone realizes that this would happen in the new forum as well.

HarryT
03-22-2009, 08:48 AM
Nobody is suggesting that anything be done to the Lounge forum - clearly there are many people who enjoy the atmosphere of that forum.

However, with all due respect to the people who enjoy the Lounge, it is pretty much impossible to have a "serious" discussion there without it being "hijacked" by off-topic remarks, etc.

I firmly believe that there is a need for a "general discussion" forum which is not the Lounge, for those of us (and I believe there are quite a few of us) whose idea of a good time is not a "wild party" but a "peaceful chat".

zelda_pinwheel
03-22-2009, 09:01 AM
i closed the thread because the topic had already been discussed at length, and Alex had made a decision about it, and i felt we should respect his decision as it is his site. Hoever, if you feel there is more to discuss i will respect that as well.

JSWolf
03-22-2009, 09:32 AM
Is there a way to filter out message based on the prefix? Can we filter out the silly messages? The only way right now to get rid of them is to go to the last page and then display new messages again and this is only a stop gap until someone else posts in a silly thread. if I was to ignore the Lounge, I'd ignore it all. That doesn't work. However if there was a forum section where the silly threads could go or the non-silly threads, then we could ignore the silly threads as we want. We won't have to have them mixed in. Right now, we are forced to have them.

Dr. Drib
03-22-2009, 10:10 AM
Interestingly, I post - or used to post - a lot of silly comments in areas that were supposed to be silly and stupid, and I loved doing so. However, when I wanted to post comments of a serious nature, I found my comments hijacked and silly, stupid comments from some members undermined the integrity of my comments. (Sometimes, I made mistakes, of course, and I here offer my apologies to anyone who posted seriously and then had their comments undermined by my insensitivities.)

I believe that my posting of stupid, silly comments has "hurt me" in some way, although I cannot be certain of this.

My mind is a crazy network of silly connections, and I like expressing that aspect of my personality here on MobileRead; but I will no longer create stupid, silly threads due to the fact that a few people on this site simply have no manners (when I decide to make serious comments), and when it comes to appreciating any serious comments from any number of members.

In my opinion, many of us need to understand when it is appropriate or inappropriate to be serious or humorous in a thread. There is also the matter of being courteous and respectful to one another as we learn to appreciate differing opinions about whatever we may be discussing. One can "see" the difference between a supercilious tone and one that is respectful.


Don

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 10:26 AM
As one who is guilty of hijacking some threads, I agree that there may be a need for rational compromise.

Interestingly at least one thread in the Lounge would be classed as 'silliness', yet has no label to that effect.

Most of the comments here are from Mods, despite a post that said the mods had already discussed the issue and 'voted' in favour of the status-quo.

In a free discussion forum like MobileRead, I wonder how anyone would be able to 'police' a policy that states 'silly comments only in threads marked as such'.

Making a personal decision, I will now refrain from making inappropriate comments in a thread that does not have a 'Utterly Silliness' tag. This does not mean that I will not make witty remarks where content/context allows, which I feel is quite different to a hijack.

tompe
03-22-2009, 10:27 AM
Is there a way to filter out message based on the prefix? Can we filter out the silly messages? The only way right now to get rid of them is to go to the last page and then display new messages again and this is only a stop gap until someone else posts in a silly thread.

Yes, something like this is missing. The only efficient way to read this forum if you want to read most of it is using search. But getting a lot of hits on threads marked "silly" makes this less efficient. One way to make it better would be if there was a link to press to mark the thread as read.

An even better thing would be that you could specify that you wanted to exclude certain tags in the search condition.

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 10:30 AM
It may not be as simple an issue of the 'silly' threads though? Surely it is more likely the hijacking that is the problem?

montsnmags
03-22-2009, 10:38 AM
It may not be as simple an issue of the 'silly' threads though? Surely it is more likely the hijacking that is the problem?

This thread has moved from talk of differentiating (sometimes with varying degrees of perjorative) the self-declared-and-tagged "Unutterably silly" threads, to referring to thread-hijacking, which is a seperate topic from the one the OP raised. I think it reasonable to declare that "hijacking" is most often a negative action in any area of the forums, rather than use "hijacking" as a possible reason for any kind of subforum.

Cheers,
Marc

tompe
03-22-2009, 10:40 AM
In a free discussion forum like MobileRead, I wonder how anyone would be able to 'police' a policy that states 'silly comments only in threads marked as such'.


In some forums moderators try to split off off-topic parts of a thread. But this has some disadvantages also.

There seems to be two different issues discussed in this thread. One is how to be able to efficiently select the threads you want to read. And the other is that it might be good if some threads stays more on topic.

The off-topic things have only bothered me occasionally but if the effect is less general discussions then this might be a problem. The first issue is the one that I have noticed most.

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 10:58 AM
This thread has moved from talk of differentiating (sometimes with varying degrees of perjorative) the self-declared-and-tagged "Unutterably silly" threads, to referring to thread-hijacking, which is a seperate topic from the one the OP raised. I think it reasonable to declare that "hijacking" is most often a negative action in any area of the forums, rather than use "hijacking" as a possible reason for any kind of subforum.

Cheers,
Marc

True; the original post by Jon was specifically with reference to the preponderance of silliness threads in the lounge.
Equally hijacking also takes place in the Lounge in threads that have not been designated as 'silly' - at least it doesn't spread too far elsewhere in the forum.

pilotbob
03-22-2009, 11:19 AM
My only additional comment here without re-hashing what I have already posted.

I don't think there is any way to expect a thread, no matter what forum it is in, to stay on topic. Threads drift... it is just what happens.

Then, more on filtering:

As far as filtering OUT a pre-fix... I wouldn't be surprised if there were a way to do it. But, I don't know how. I just tried it and don't see a way. The URL when you filter has something like prefix= in it. I tried to put a blank space in it thinking that would give posts without a pre-fix, but it didn't work.

BOb

HarryT
03-22-2009, 11:27 AM
I don't think there is any way to expect a thread, no matter what forum it is in, to stay on topic. Threads drift... it is just what happens.


They do, but it is flat out impossible to start any thread in the Lounge which doesn't degenerate into off-topic "humour". That is why I would like to see a separate sub-forum for people who want to enjoy "serious" discussions with less risk of that happening. I have absolutely nothing against the Lounge, for those people who enjoy such things, but it has to be recognised that there are many people who do not.

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 11:29 AM
I still fail to see how such a 'new' sub-forum would achieve that.

HarryT
03-22-2009, 11:31 AM
I still fail to see how such a 'new' sub-forum would achieve that.

One would hope that the people who enjoy injecting "witty" remarks into every thread in the Lounge would have the courtesy (and I'm sure they would) of not doing so in a sub-forum specifically earmarked as being for more serious discussions. I see no reason to suppose that this would not be the case. After all, it does not happen in every thread on the other parts of the board.

pilotbob
03-22-2009, 11:33 AM
I still fail to see how such a 'new' sub-forum would achieve that.

My feeling, and I am certainly guilty of this is that the description of the Lounge is "friendly banter". The definition of banter is:

noun
the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks : there was much singing and good-natured banter.

verb
talk or exchange remarks in a good-humored teasing way : the men bantered with the waitresses | [as adj. ] ( bantering) a bantering tone.

So, threads in the lounge seem more prone to this happening. I know I have done it.

That said, would a "Serious" pre-fix perhaps be an idea? This would not be a hard fast rule that you couldn't have FUN in that thread, but just would indicate to folks that the OP wasn't kidding and didn't mean to "banter".

A new prefix would also allow for an inclusive filtering for that pre-fix.

BOb

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 11:35 AM
One would hope that the people who enjoy injecting "witty" remarks into every thread in the Lounge would have the courtesy (and I'm sure they would) of not doing so in a sub-forum specifically earmarked as being for more serious discussions. I see no reason to suppose that this would not be the case. After all, it does not happen in every thread on the other parts of the board.


Yes you are right, the silliness does not (often) move out of the Lounge (except perhaps into the Writers area).
A question would be what becomes the sub-forum : Silliness or Seriousness?
I would actually favour the former - into the Playground, perhaps.

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 11:36 AM
A new prefix would also allow for an inclusive filtering for that pre-fix.

BOb


Surely the default is for seriousness ?

tompe
03-22-2009, 11:37 AM
That said, would a "Serious" pre-fix perhaps be an idea? This would not be a hard fast rule that you couldn't have FUN in that thread, but just would indicate to folks that the OP wasn't kidding and didn't mean to "banter".

A new prefix would also allow for an inclusive filtering for that pre-fix.


This is maybe better since I assume that prefix can be changed much easier than moving threads between sub-forums.

HarryT
03-22-2009, 11:37 AM
Yes you are right, the silliness does not (often) move out of the Lounge (except perhaps into the Writers area).
A question would be what becomes the sub-forum : Silliness or Seriousness?
I would actually favour the former - into the Playground, perhaps.

I would not want the people who currently enjoy using the Lounge to feel "marginalised" in any way, and so I would prefer the latter.

pilotbob
03-22-2009, 11:38 AM
Surely the default is for seriousness ?

Two things,

1. The default is "banter" per the lounge description.

2. There is no way to filter for threads with NO pre-fix. (Yes I said this a few posts ago, sorry)

BOb

tompe
03-22-2009, 11:39 AM
Surely the default is for seriousness ?

I do not think so. The default is probably "undecided" and this can then develop into different directions. Having a tag from the beginning would prohibit certain directions.

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 11:40 AM
I would not want the people who currently enjoy using the Lounge to feel "marginalised" in any way, and so I would prefer the latter.


Which came first? The Lounge or the Silliness .... The default for any post is 'seriousness'; it implies that in the choices one has...

'silliness' is there as a specific prefix.

HarryT
03-22-2009, 11:43 AM
The Lounge came first, but we have to deal with the situation as we now find it. I am informed that many new members find the "friendliness" of the Lounge to be less "intimidating" than the other, technically-oriented, forums, and that it would be perceived as undesirable to alter that - hence the suggestion to leave the Lounge as it currently is and provide a new location for more serious stuff.

pilotbob
03-22-2009, 11:43 AM
This is maybe better since I assume that prefix can be changed much easier than moving threads between sub-forums.

Actually the forum software makes both tasks very easy to do. However, the pre-fixes keep things cleaner. I have requested also a way to ignore threads as you can ignore sections and posters. But, I'm not sure what Alex's feeling on that suggestion is.

BOb

GeoffC
03-22-2009, 11:44 AM
I do not think so. The default is probably "undecided" and this can then develop into different directions. Having a tag from the beginning would prohibit certain directions.


Sorry, my last post was obviously posted too close to two others.


I am beginning to understand why Alex may have wanted to leave well alone !

Dr. Drib
03-22-2009, 11:47 AM
I still fail to see how such a 'new' sub-forum would achieve that.


Well, I think it's a matter of being respectful. If one has something silly to post in a sub-forum that does not cater to this, then it is clearly a matter of being disrespectful when someone goes and posts some stupid, silly comment in an area where it is not called for.

Having said that, however, I see threads as"organic," in that they drift and flow in different directions, sometimes moving slighty away from the main topic of the thread - but they will invariably come back to the "trunk" of the thread. But there's a world of difference between that and posting silly comments in a thread where it's not called for.


Don

vivaldirules
03-22-2009, 11:51 AM
One would hope that the people who enjoy injecting "witty" remarks into every thread in the Lounge would have the courtesy (and I'm sure they would) of not doing so in a sub-forum specifically earmarked as being for more serious discussions. I see no reason to suppose that this would not be the case. After all, it does not happen in every thread on the other parts of the board.

I agree. Even I usually resist the temptation to post silliness outside of The Llounge. What more evidence do you need?

astra
03-22-2009, 12:45 PM
They do, but it is flat out impossible to start any thread in the Lounge which doesn't degenerate into off-topic "humour". That is why I would like to see a separate sub-forum for people who want to enjoy "serious" discussions with less risk of that happening. I have absolutely nothing against the Lounge, for those people who enjoy such things, but it has to be recognised that there are many people who do not.

Exactly how I feel about it.

Dr. Drib
03-22-2009, 01:06 PM
I opened the thread again. I didn't think it should be closed. Harry didn't think it should be closed.

Continuing the discussion, Harry and I are both in favor of a new subforum.

This thread should have given you a hint of why that wouldn't work. his was a serious thread in a serious forum, and it still got "hijacked". I hope everyone realizes that this would happen in the new forum as well.

You may also add me to that list, as well.


Don

Marysart
03-22-2009, 09:03 PM
I am informed that many new members find the "friendliness" of the Lounge to be less "intimidating" than the other, technically-oriented, forums, and that it would be perceived as undesirable to alter that - hence the suggestion to leave the Lounge as it currently is and provide a new location for more serious stuff.


As a new member I have to say that I have exactly the opposite reaction to the lounge. I did find it intimidating even though I liked some of the threads. Why? Because I feel that there is a lot of clique forming going on in a lot of threads.
Since I'm new here I don't now all the inn jokes. I feel people would rather talk amongst themselves. The lounge often doesn't feel 'open'. Visiting there can feel for me like I'm listening in on people's private conversations. Now personally I don't get why conversations like that don't take place in the chat, msn ,or some other means.
Slow chatting is not allowed on other boards that I visit exactly for the reasons I stated above.

Also, just checking the lounge threads I don't see very many (or any?)
newcomers posting there.

For me the lounge could be a place to get to know the people that frequent this board, but as it stands, I don't feel that it is the place to do this.

This is why I had hoped that there could be an easy way to ignore especially the silliness threads or the lounge all together when searching for new posts.
As it is a part of the forum that isn't at all usefull to me.

I must say I'm glad this thread got opened again :).:thanks:
I felt really angry and hurt when it got closed without being able to give a response.

Just to add. I chose to speak up about this, because I also think mobileread is otherwise just a great place to be.
Where else am i going to find others that like reading and gadgetry just as much as i do :D

Dr. Drib
03-23-2009, 07:04 AM
As a new member I have to say that I have exactly the opposite reaction to the lounge. I did find it intimidating even though I liked some of the threads. Why? Because I feel that there is a lot of clique forming going on in a lot of threads.
Since I'm new here I don't now all the inn jokes. I feel people would rather talk amongst themselves. The lounge often doesn't feel 'open'. Visiting there can feel for me like I'm listening in on people's private conversations. Now personally I don't get why conversations like that don't take place in the chat, msn ,or some other means.
Slow chatting is not allowed on other boards that I visit exactly for the reasons I stated above.

Also, just checking the lounge threads I don't see very many (or any?)
newcomers posting there.

For me the lounge could be a place to get to know the people that frequent this board, but as it stands, I don't feel that it is the place to do this.

This is why I had hoped that there could be an easy way to ignore especially the silliness threads or the lounge all together when searching for new posts.
As it is a part of the forum that isn't at all usefull to me.

I must say I'm glad this thread got opened again :).:thanks:
I felt really angry and hurt when it got closed without being able to give a response.

Just to add. I chose to speak up about this, because I also think mobileread is otherwise just a great place to be.
Where else am i going to find others that like reading and gadgetry just as much as i do :D


I want to put on my moderator's hat and say "thank you" for speaking up, and for speaking up in a way that is important to you, no matter what opinion you hold. It is this idea that you CAN express your opinion that is so important.

Freedom of expression, I feel, is important on any Board where members are courteous and respectful of one another, and who write in tones that show both thoughtfulness, courtesy, and concern - as your post does.

I think the worst feeling that any member can have is to feel marginalized or to feel he/she has no voice within that community in which that person is a member.

Your thoughts are very much appreciated, and I'm glad you're enjoying MobileRead.

Don
(moderator)

astra
03-23-2009, 07:52 AM
As a new member I have to say that I have exactly the opposite reaction to the lounge. I did find it intimidating even though I liked some of the threads. Why? Because I feel that there is a lot of clique forming going on in a lot of threads.
Since I'm new here I don't now all the inn jokes. I feel people would rather talk amongst themselves. The lounge often doesn't feel 'open'. Visiting there can feel for me like I'm listening in on people's private conversations.

I am not exactly new, but that is how I feel quite often.

Ea
03-23-2009, 08:14 AM
I am not exactly new, but that is how I feel quite often.
Same here. In a way I don't really mind the cliquishness and the silliness of the Lounge, I just don't go there then. It could be nice to have a seperate space for more serious descussions, though I usually come here for reading and ebook related things anyway and I don't know how much it would interest me.

Sparrow
03-23-2009, 09:45 AM
It could be nice to have a seperate space for more serious descussions...

But how would this work in practice? Would someone (a mod?) need to judge when a light-hearted remark had overstepped the boundary into silliness? :chinscratch:

If someone has started a serious (to them) discussion, I can see it would be annoying to see others treat it flippantly.
But, I would rather see a debate descend into silliness than vitriol - apart from anything else, it is easier for a debate to recover from levity and it can act to prevent things getting too heated.
Perceived 'cliquiness' is a problem, but I think generally all contributions are treated with equal respect. On a (very) few occasions I have seen what seemed to me 'mobbing' of one poster by a group and that has made me sad - but I think that behaviour is extremely rare.

astra
03-23-2009, 01:10 PM
But how would this work in practice? Would someone (a mod?) need to judge when a light-hearted remark had overstepped the boundary into silliness? :chinscratch:

If there were 2 subforums, Silliness and standard lounge, it would really be easy peasy lemon squeezy.
People who like silliness would post in Silliness sub forum. The other subforum would be a subject to standard rules that apply to the rest of the forum in regard of hijacking and off-topic issues.

JSWolf
03-23-2009, 01:23 PM
I do understand that threads do drift off topic. But a good thread will manage to get back on topic of if it cannot get back on topic, then it's time to close that thread or split it off from where it drifted into a new thread. That said, time to be on topic....

I do agree that it can feel like an in-crowd type of community in the forum and until you've been a regular long enough, you might not feel a part of they crowd. But right now, we don't have a place to post that does not fit into the other forum sections. The Lounge used to be that way, but it's gone into being a place for mostly silly. So unless I was starting a silly thread, I don't want to post in the Lounge. I don't see what the issue is to not add one more forum section that isn't the Lounge that can be what the Lounge was originally supposed to be and leave the Lounge as is. Can someone please give me a good reason to leave the mess (yes, I do think the Lounge is a mess) the way it is?

Sparrow
03-23-2009, 01:35 PM
If there was a new forum, and a non-silly thread was started in the Lounge, would it get shifted to the new forum?

Daithi
03-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I did find it intimidating even though I liked some of the threads. Why? Because I feel that there is a lot of clique forming going on in a lot of threads. Since I'm new here I don't now all the inn jokes. ...

I just wanted to say I agree with Marysart and JSWolf. I think the the Lounge is great and wouldn't want to begrudge anyone their friendships and banter, but the Lounge really isn't for me.

However, there are instances where I'd like to post on a topic that doesn't fit within any of the other forums, so it gets posted into the lounge. My preference would be a Lounge Forum and a seperate Miscellaneous Forum.

Ea
03-24-2009, 04:01 AM
But how would this work in practice? Would someone (a mod?) need to judge when a light-hearted remark had overstepped the boundary into silliness? :chinscratch:

If someone has started a serious (to them) discussion, I can see it would be annoying to see others treat it flippantly.
But, I would rather see a debate descend into silliness than vitriol - apart from anything else, it is easier for a debate to recover from levity and it can act to prevent things getting too heated.
Perceived 'cliquiness' is a problem, but I think generally all contributions are treated with equal respect. On a (very) few occasions I have seen what seemed to me 'mobbing' of one poster by a group and that has made me sad - but I think that behaviour is extremely rare.
That's why I say "could" rather than should. A different forum isn't necessarily the right thing. And I think you're reading more into "cliquiness" than I meant - you could also call it "in-crowd-ness". I don't mind the lounge, I just don't feel at home there myself and thus go other places.
Anyway... I think Daithi's suggestion of a miscallaneous sub-forum is interesting. A couple of times there's been topics I'd like to post about but couldn't find anywhere to put them. The lounge doesn't feel like that kind of catch-all place to me - it's much more, well, "lounge-y" :p if that makes sense.

Wetdogeared
03-24-2009, 10:24 AM
My preference would be a Lounge Forum and a seperate Miscellaneous Forum.

I think Daithi's suggestion of a miscallaneous sub-forum is interesting.

This isn't meant to be argumentative, but there is already a sub-forum called Miscellaneous, in which the lounge is sub-sub-forum.

Miscellaneous Forum

Introduce Yourself
Flea Market
The Lounge
Feedback
Announcements
Archive

WDE.

Sparrow
03-24-2009, 10:43 AM
How about a new Lounge thread prefix - 'Keep it Sensible' - to go alongside 'Silliness' and 'Meet Up'?

Lady Blue
03-24-2009, 10:56 AM
That sounds REAL Sensible to me . . . and I'm not being a smarta**.

astra
03-24-2009, 10:56 AM
How about a new Lounge thread prefix - 'Keep it Sensible' - to go alongside 'Silliness' and 'Meet Up'?
I like it.

pshrynk
03-24-2009, 11:32 AM
I started a thread with the topic line "Serious Topic" to see if the thread would be hijacked if it was in the lounge. It has not been and the discussion has been a good one. I think it is very easy to have a serious discussion any where on the board if you ask respectfully that it be kept serious.

On the other hand, I fell that having a "Salon" an are for on-topic discussion of matters that concern us would be a great addition. The more options available, the better, in my opinion. We opened the Writer's Corner a few weeks ago and it is going great guns. Some silliness, but a lot of really good discussions about writing and out work that we are involved with.

Would anyone who hangs out in the Lounge be offended by having a "Serious Discussion" section? I would not. I would welcome it and participate in both areas.

JSWolf
03-24-2009, 11:42 AM
This isn't meant to be argumentative, but there is already a sub-forum called Miscellaneous, in which the lounge is sub-sub-forum.

Miscellaneous Forum

Introduce Yourself
Flea Market
The Lounge
Feedback
Announcements
Archive

WDE.
Miscellaneous is just the name for all of the forum sections you've listed. We cannot post there. And none of the other forum sections are a place to have threads that do not fit the rest of MR as they all have specific topics and Lounge is all we have and it's been hijaacked by silly threads. Not that I mind. But I do mind not having a place that does not have the silly threads. I think leave the Lounge as it is and move all the non-silly threads out of it into another forum section. Then that would solve the problem and everyone should be happy.

Nobody has yet given us a good reason why this cannot or should not be done.

JSWolf
03-24-2009, 11:43 AM
I started a thread with the topic line "Serious Topic" to see if the thread would be hijacked if it was in the lounge. It has not been and the discussion has been a good one. I think it is very easy to have a serious discussion any where on the board if you ask respectfully that it be kept serious.

On the other hand, I fell that having a "Salon" an are for on-topic discussion of matters that concern us would be a great addition. The more options available, the better, in my opinion. We opened the Writer's Corner a few weeks ago and it is going great guns. Some silliness, but a lot of really good discussions about writing and out work that we are involved with.

Would anyone who hangs out in the Lounge be offended by having a "Serious Discussion" section? I would not. I would welcome it and participate in both areas.
I do like your idea of a Salon. It would leave the Lounge for the sillyness or whatever sort of fun stuff people want to have and the Salon could be for threads that just don't fit elsewhere.

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 11:48 AM
I do like your idea of a Salon. It would leave the Lounge for the sillyness or whatever sort of fun stuff people want to have and the Salon could be for threads that just don't fit elsewhere.

And then the silliness will leak into the Salon, and there'll be yet one more place to be silly.

Dandy idea. :D

JSWolf
03-24-2009, 11:49 AM
And then the silliness will leak into the Salon, and there'll be yet one more place to be silly.

Dandy idea. :D
If the moderators moderate the Salon, they can prevent it from getting out of hand.

pshrynk
03-24-2009, 11:52 AM
And then the silliness will leak into the Salon, and there'll be yet one more place to be silly.

Dandy idea. :D
No, I think that there is a need for a forum where silliness doesn't leak into so that those with serious intent can escape the escapism of the Lounge. So, silliness will be met with a very stiff upper lip and asked to go elsewhere. :p

Daithi
03-24-2009, 11:56 AM
I actually don't care for "Salon" as it has a similar connotation to "Lounge" -- more of a gathering place for banter than an area used to discuss ebook or non-banter type threads.

So I propose that within the Miscellaneous Forum we have a Miscellaneous Sub-Forum (or maybe we could call it the General Sub-Forum). The main point being that I'd just like to see a place to post non-banter related items that aren't covered by one of the other forums.

Sparrow
03-24-2009, 12:00 PM
... I think leave the Lounge as it is and move all the non-silly threads out of it into another forum section. ....Nobody has yet given us a good reason why this cannot or should not be done.

I don't know if I'd necessarily want a non-silly thread I started moved out of the Lounge.

So you could end up with non-silly threads in both fora - but would that be a problem? :chinscratch:

pshrynk
03-24-2009, 12:04 PM
I like "Salon" because it ties in with the Salon Movement. A group of like minded individuals gathering to discuss theissues of importance to them all.

Non-silly thread in the Lounge would probably stay where they started. We are not trying to make a schism here, but just add options, which is always a good thing, from my pov.

Sparrow
03-24-2009, 12:09 PM
We are not trying to make a schism here, but just add options, which is always a good thing, from my pov.

Oh yes, no-one's being keleusmatical about it - that's understood. ;)

Wetdogeared
03-24-2009, 01:02 PM
Mods would have to be more active, and may need a new graphic emoticon.

26315

But I'm still not convinced we need a new section. I'm willing to hear more serious debate on the issue though. Without strict moderation, silliness will find it's way to any thread, IMHO.

WDE.

astra
03-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Mods would have to be more active, and may need a new graphic emoticon.

26315

But I'm still not convinced we need a new section. I'm willing to hear more serious debate on the issue though. Without strict moderation, silliness will find it's way to any thread, IMHO.

WDE.

A stray off topic post here and there can be tolerated, what canNOT be tolerated is what happened in this topic starting with post number 26. To be more specific, post number 30 through post number 48.
Very typical and annoying. Usually the same posters are involved.

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 01:16 PM
No, I think that there is a need for a forum where silliness doesn't leak into so that those with serious intent can escape the escapism of the Lounge. So, silliness will be met with a very stiff upper lip and asked to go elsewhere. :p

I hear you, but you have to admit that posts, no matter where they originate, have a life all their own. Every thread, no matter how serious it may start, has the potential for extreme silliness.

I'll tell you what might work ... and it's what they do over at the Renderosity Forums ... the members are able to select what forums they do or do not see posts from.

That way, people (such as myself) who have a hard time not being silly, could simply never see the "Salon" ... or whatever you call it .... and wouldn't be likely to post anything even remotely silly in it.

Come to think of it, the only forums (fora ... whatever) I ever really should be reading are the Kindle and Lounge and perhaps News/Commentary. I think a completely serious spot, no humor allowed at all, would probably interest some people, such as Wolfie, but me ... not so much, so much better that I just never get bothered sorting through those posts. And, someone like Wolfie could completely opt out of the Lounge.

Lady Blue
03-24-2009, 01:17 PM
I think either Sparrow's "Keep it Sensible" (my fav so far), or pshrynk's "Salon" would work. I don't think it's inevitable that silliness will seep in to every thread, especially when it's clear that it's not meant to me. Someone may make a comment that gets a chuckle now and then, but not to the point of being totally derailed. (Just my nickel's worth.)

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 01:22 PM
I disagree, but you all are welcome to try anything you want. If it works, it works, if it doesn't then it doesn't.

I still think an opt in/out system makes a lot more sense, is easier to maintain, and less likely to break down.

Although, I may have found a way to do my own opt in/out system, in which case, for me it won't matter so much.

Lady Blue
03-24-2009, 02:14 PM
I disagree, but you all are welcome to try anything you want. If it works, it works, if it doesn't then it doesn't.

I still think an opt in/out system makes a lot more sense, is easier to maintain, and less likely to break down.

Although, I may have found a way to do my own opt in/out system, in which case, for me it won't matter so much.

Maybe, but . . .

I donít know anything about programming codes, and I certainly wouldnít assume that what Alexander does is easy (although mostly anything is easy once you know how) but how difficult could it be, and what harm would it do to add a 7th sub-forum to the MISCELLANEOUS category to address the desire to keep a topicís tone sincere and sensible? Obviously enough people think itís important, or at least worthwhile.

I donít believe itís a matter either of those who wish to engage in serious discussion versus the silly-minded posters being mutually exclusive. Itís just that ďsometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you donítĒ and it would be nice if simply having a new sub-category could make the road to take a little easier to find without a GPS system.

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 02:29 PM
Maybe, but . . .

I donít know anything about programming codes, and I certainly wouldnít assume that what Alexander does is easy (although mostly anything is easy once you know how) but how difficult could it be, and what harm would it do to add a 7th sub-forum to the MISCELLANEOUS category to address the desire to keep a topicís tone sincere and sensible? Obviously enough people think itís important, or at least worthwhile.

I donít believe itís a matter either of those who wish to engage in serious discussion versus the silly-minded posters being mutually exclusive. Itís just that ďsometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you donítĒ and it would be nice if simply having a new sub-category could make the road to take a little easier to find without a GPS system.

Yes, having an option is always nice. That's why an opt in/out system works so well.

The alternative is someone deciding what sort and amount of humor will be allowed in any forum and removing the offending post or warning the poster that no humor is tolerated in [name your serious posts only forum here].

I happen to prefer public fora that do not impose censorship, except as may be necessary considering the age/sensibility of the audience.

Opt in/out forums are wonderful creations in that they allow the user the option of only viewing those posts from the fora in which they participate. I, speaking for myself, would prefer not to be bothered by posts from a forum where I am not free to say what I think because someone out there decided that I was being too humorous. My guess is that the first time I saw one of those "keep it serious" banners, I would just pack my bags and leave MR altogether.

I happen to see MR generally as a "social" place. Lots of people discussing lots of things .... but no one being too anal about the exact place or content of the discussion. Take, for example, the post in "Reading Recommendations" about escapism. It has nothing to do with reading recommendations, does that mean it should be moved, removed, or have banners throughout telling people that they should only be discussing reading recommendations in that particular forum?? I don't happen to think so ... but then I'm probably in the minority.

What it comes down to is ..... you all can decide to self-censor or have a form of censorship imposed on you. I would simply hope that there would be a way for those of us who don't care for censored fora to be able to opt out of those fora .... you know .... it's all about having options.

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 02:47 PM
And, no .... it's not that difficult to do. It's just something that gets added to user preferences.

Marysart
03-24-2009, 02:58 PM
If there were 2 subforums, Silliness and standard lounge, it would really be easy peasy lemon squeezy.
People who like silliness would post in Silliness sub forum. The other subforum would be a subject to standard rules that apply to the rest of the forum in regard of hijacking and off-topic issues.

I like this suggestion. And I don't care what either of the forums is called. But for now :In the silliness forum anything would be allowed and people could have private conversations, meet up with friends, slow chatting etc.

I don't know if it's technically possible, but the possibility of filtering out the fora which I don't visit would also be nice, just for ease of navigating.

And lastly, I don't think any amount of moderating can replace basic respect for others and their opinions, you either have it or you don't, but from the way I've seen this thread going since it was reopened, this shouldn't be a problem :).

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 03:29 PM
I like this suggestion. And I don't care what either of the forums is called. But for now :In the silliness forum anything would be allowed and people could have private conversations, meet up with friends, slow chatting etc.

I don't know if it's technically possible, but the possibility of filtering out the fora which I don't visit would also be nice, just for ease of navigating.

And lastly, I don't think any amount of moderating can replace basic respect for others and their opinions, you either have it or you don't, but from the way I've seen this thread going since it was reopened, this shouldn't be a problem :).

OK .... here's a good example of where the problems would lie:

Meet ups only allowed in the "Silliness" Forum? What exactly is silly about a MR Meet-up?

Private conversations? Nothing private about a conversation in any public forum. That's what private messages are for.

And, yes .... filtering out fora is totally possible. I wouldn't have recommended it as an option if I wasn't doing exactly that at several other places.

All I am suggesting, people, is that if you want to have any number of strictly censored fora, then at least give those of us who don't want to participate in them an opt out.

There is always ease of navigation to consider, absolutely true .... why should I be faced with Sony and Hanlin and Bebook posts, when in point of fact, except for correcting some of the idiotic things that are posted about the Kindle in those fora, I have pretty much nothing to contribute?

I happen to think that the best of the discussions at MR are those that wander off topic ... it's intellectual free association, and I find it very stimulating ... whether or not it lapses into silliness from time to time.

Marysart
03-24-2009, 03:32 PM
I want to put on my moderator's hat and say "thank you" for speaking up, and for speaking up in a way that is important to you, no matter what opinion you hold. It is this idea that you CAN express your opinion that is so important.

Freedom of expression, I feel, is important on any Board where members are courteous and respectful of one another, and who write in tones that show both thoughtfulness, courtesy, and concern - as your post does.

I think the worst feeling that any member can have is to feel marginalized or to feel he/she has no voice within that community in which that person is a member.

Your thoughts are very much appreciated, and I'm glad you're enjoying MobileRead.

Don
(moderator)

Your welcome :)

JSWolf
03-24-2009, 03:38 PM
I know that threads can and do wander away from the original topic sometimes. What is being asked for is a separation (not censored) of the threads that have started off as silly on purpose. I don't see this as a problem.

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 03:41 PM
I know that threads can and do wander away from the original topic sometimes. What is being asked for is a separation (not censored) of the threads that have started off as silly on purpose. I don't see this as a problem.

Those already are separated. They have a big ol' blue label on them.

What you seem to be asking for is a separate forum where only serious posts will be allowed at all.

JSWolf
03-24-2009, 03:47 PM
Those already are separated. They have a big ol' blue label on them.

What you seem to be asking for is a separate forum where only serious posts will be allowed at all.
I'm not asking for completely serious posts. Just a place where the pots do not start out as silly.

The labels don't help at all. If we want to not have the silly posts in the new message list, we also will have to lose the rest of the post from the new list. Threads that are meant to be silly from the start would still have a place to be. Threads that are not meant to be silly would be someplace else. That's all. I said nothing about serious. You are reading into it more then I said.

Marysart
03-24-2009, 03:47 PM
OK .... here's a good example of where the problems would lie:

Meet ups only allowed in the "Silliness" Forum? What exactly is silly about a MR Meet-up?

What's in a name...:). Personally, I really don't care what it's called as long as it's purpose is clear.

Private conversations? Nothing private about a conversation in any public forum. That's what private messages are for.

Well, you see, that's what I would have thought, I just considered it as an alternative to the chat as I figured maybe the time differences where making it difficult for people to meet up there?
Plus of course, there is a limit to the pm boxes.



And, yes .... filtering out fora is totally possible. I wouldn't have recommended it as an option if I wasn't doing exactly that at several other places.

Great, that's good to hear :)

Lady Blue
03-24-2009, 04:03 PM
I don't see the creation of a new category as censorship in any way, and I DID say it was just a way to address the desire to keep a topicís tone sincere and sensible. It would just be a street sign so to speak, much as the silliness tag is; just an easy way to see at a glance which way the wind is blowing.

I'm sure that even in the most serious of threads no one ever objects to a little frivolity, and everyone knows that the subject often steers off course to some degree. I just think that some members are asking for a tag that subtly suggests to the silly ones among us to refrain from throwing the thread off the cliff (without feeling censored) unnecessarily, much the same as the SILLINESS tag subtly invites one to be wild and crazy, and please refrain from being morbid and morose.

Opting in or out of a thread may work very well for some, but wouldn't you need to take a few additional steps to set up these preferences? Not meaning to infer that would be a problem, but wouldn't it just be easier to have an additional tag instead to see at-a-glance the difference between the "Please turn your cell phones off in the exam room" demeanor of a thread, and the "silly string ahead - all manner of madness flies within" type of thread.

But then again, I could be wrong. I usually am.

tompe
03-24-2009, 04:13 PM
I happen to think that the best of the discussions at MR are those that wander off topic ... it's intellectual free association, and I find it very stimulating ... whether or not it lapses into silliness from time to time.

Off topic is very different from chat mode.

tompe
03-24-2009, 04:20 PM
Those already are separated. They have a big ol' blue label on them.


As mentioned above. If you read using search having all the top threads having blue labels on them reduce the efficiency of reading the threads you want to read. Now I have added a filter for the lounge in my search and I noticed directly that this worked much better.

I like off topic threads but and off topic thread contains posts that are relevant when you read them days after they were written. It is those threads that are only interesting if you read them while they are current (slow chat was a good name for them) I want to avoid in the user interface and it is hard to mark them as read.

Daithi
03-24-2009, 04:50 PM
Where do you start threads like the following?

College textbooks -- are current readers inadequate
An idea for book publishers
Illustrations in ebooks
A list of great ebook related sites
A proposal to modernize copyright laws
The case for digital piracy

The Lounge doesn't seem like the place to start the serious kinds of topics I listed above. To me, the Lounge is the place I would go to read about MR gatherings, or elect Zelda as Sovereign of Mobilita Republica, or discuss the weather where I live, or just go have fun with online friends.

However, sometimes (usually) I want to discuss or read the opinions of others in regards to ebook issues, like the sample topics I just provided. These kinds of threads quickly get lost in the Lounge and I'm sure that when new members want to create a topic, like the ones I just suggested, they too wouldn't know where to start the thread. We could easily solve this problem by adding a "General Discussions" forum.

I don't expect, or even want, a thread to remain serious with no deviation from its stated intent. I don't mind threads drifting, or people joking, or occassional inside jokes. In fact, I find these idiosyncrasies are part of Mobileread's charm. I just want a forum that I can start a thread that discusses a serious topic.

One last thing, please don't call it the Salon as that is where my girlfriend gets her hair styled and doesn't help people trying to figure out where to post general ebook related posts. I'm afraid that people seeing Salon will see it as another Lounge forum, or someone wanting to discuss Copyright/Intellectual Property Issues will look for a "General Discussions" or "Miscellaneous" forum and their thread will never get started when they can't find the place to start it.

I've made the best case I can for my position, so I'll shut up now and let you guys decide. Thanks JSWolf for getting this started -- I just gave you some karma.

tompe
03-24-2009, 04:56 PM
Where do you start threads like the following?

College textbooks -- are current readers inadequate
An idea for book publishers
Illustrations in ebooks
A list of great ebook related sites
A proposal to modernize copyright laws
The case for digital piracy

I think "News and Commentary" is the right place since every topic is about ebooks or related things. Remember that the lounge is for topics not related to ebooks.

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 05:30 PM
We seriously need a forum section for posts that do not exactly fit anyplace else and the lounge is not it. The lounge has been taken over by too much sillyness to make people try to wade through it to find posts that are not silly. We need to seperate the silly from the not silly. Some people may not want to wade through the silly and the not silly posts will just get lost. So can we have a forum section that's not the lounge for posts that are not meant to be silly? Either that or we create a new forum section just for the silly and move all the posts there and then those that do not want them can easily ignore it.

I'm not asking for completely serious posts. Just a place where the pots do not start out as silly.

The labels don't help at all. If we want to not have the silly posts in the new message list, we also will have to lose the rest of the post from the new list. Threads that are meant to be silly from the start would still have a place to be. Threads that are not meant to be silly would be someplace else. That's all. I said nothing about serious. You are reading into it more then I said.

You said nothing about serious?? OK .... what did you mean by "not silly"? Who is the arbiter of what is or is not silly? And, honestly, when did the original poster .... of anything .... have their "intent" control what eventually happened to the post?

Do you have any idea how much serious content is contained in some of those threads which bear a big blue label?? No, probably not, since I'm sure you avoid them like the plague. However, it is not possible, and I do not think it is particularly desirable, to have someone trying to determine what is "silly" .... "not silly" .... "extremely silly" ..... "not silly, but still funny" .... "not silly, but witty" .... ooooo, and then try to maintain whatever they can discerne is the intent of the original poster.

What fun.

And, while I don't necessarily disagree with your suggestion, I happen to think that the best way to make it work is to fix it so that you personally never have to wade through anything that is even remotely silly .... and the best way to do that is to allow you to opt out of the Lounge once your not-silly posts only forum is created.

Think about it .... even if you made the horrific mistake of hitting the "All New Posts" button .... your preferences would be set so that nothing the least bit silly would appear. Problem solved.

I, in turn, would be able to completely filter out the entire forum of "not silly and (as suggested by others) no silliness of any kind allowed ... stick with the topic and do not deviate" so that I wouldn't even be tempted to say anything that could hint at silliness.

Daithi
03-24-2009, 06:41 PM
I think "News and Commentary" is the right place since every topic is about ebooks or related things. Remember that the lounge is for topics not related to ebooks.

Thanks Tompe. All I'm looking for is a place to post some non-banter types of topics and if "News and Commentary" is where this should be done then I'm fine with that.

A few questions for JSWolfe and others that want a new forum

What kind of topics are you talking about posting?
Are they topics similar to the ones I provided, or do you have other types of "serious" topics you are wanting to post?
Is posting in the "News and Commentary" adequate, or do you still think there should be a seperate forum?

RickyMaveety
03-24-2009, 10:33 PM
Thanks Tompe. All I'm looking for is a place to post some non-banter types of topics and if "News and Commentary" is where this should be done then I'm fine with that.

A few questions for JSWolfe and others that want a new forum

What kind of topics are you talking about posting?
Are they topics similar to the ones I provided, or do you have other types of "serious" topics you are wanting to post?
Is posting in the "News and Commentary" adequate, or do you still think there should be a seperate forum?


Keep in mind that, as he says, he is not talking about "serious" posts .... he is talking about not silly posts. What those are, I haven't a freaking clue.

He says they are only the posts that the original poster intended to be silly. So, this would not include posts that were not intentionally silly to start with even if they became unbearably silly by the end of the thread.

So, he's not talking about any particular topics or even serious topics generally ... he just has a "thing" about seeing too many blue silliness labels showing up in the Lounge. It seems to upset him. I don't know why, it just does.

:rolleyes:

ProfJulie
03-25-2009, 12:32 AM
I don't have much of an opinion about starting up a separate forum for serious discussion. What I would like to see is the possibility of carrying on open, honest, even light hearted discussion without the hijacking into complete silliness that happens far too often to threads.

I generally think that the person who posted the thread, beginning the dialogue, in some way "owns" the thread. If that person starts bantering with other members and interjects the silliness into their own thread, that's fine. It is when other people who do not have such a vested interest in the thread's original topic start interjecting irrelevant humor into the thread that I start to get concerned (and tune out). It is disrespectful to the original poster and to the other people who are carrying on the dialogue. This seems to be a common trend these days. I think it could easily be curtailed if the people who are doing this refrained from posting their blather.

BTW Thanks to Nate for reopening this thread. I was quite disappointed and angry when it was closed so abruptly.

RickyMaveety
03-25-2009, 02:18 AM
I don't have much of an opinion about starting up a separate forum for serious discussion. What I would like to see is the possibility of carrying on open, honest, even light hearted discussion without the hijacking into complete silliness that happens far too often to threads.

I generally think that the person who posted the thread, beginning the dialogue, in some way "owns" the thread. If that person starts bantering with other members and interjects the silliness into their own thread, that's fine. It is when other people who do not have such a vested interest in the thread's original topic start interjecting irrelevant humor into the thread that I start to get concerned (and tune out). It is disrespectful to the original poster and to the other people who are carrying on the dialogue. This seems to be a common trend these days. I think it could easily be curtailed if the people who are doing this refrained from posting their blather.

BTW Thanks to Nate for reopening this thread. I was quite disappointed and angry when it was closed so abruptly.

Interesting idea. Ownership of threads. Sounds like something for a sticky note. No going off post, ever. The original poster "owns" the thread, and anything (anything) that is off post is disrespectful ... and should be removed perhaps??

What a lovely way to run a public "forum" ... kudos to you for the idea. I'll do my level best to make certain I never wander into a thread you started. I would hate to be disrespectful to you by saying something that I thought was "light hearted" and you thought was "silly."

Moejoe
03-25-2009, 03:11 AM
And so it was, on that fateful day in March of 2009 that the 'War on Silliness' began. Before too long the mere mention of Monty Python was grounds for banishment from the community. Banished too were the emoticons, darkened were their smiles and googly eyes, their happy flag wavings and proclamations of love and thank-you's. Those branded as OFF-TOPIC were made to sit in the 'Naughty' forum where they could not post anything or even read other forums. Soon all discussions were of a highly technical nature and anything that deviated from this path was instantly deleted from the memory of the community forever. But in those dark days a rebellion was born. A new hope shined in the bowels of the 'Lounge'....

-From the Diary of Major George Hummingbird Maffick (Mrs) 2010.

ProfJulie
03-25-2009, 03:51 AM
I'll do my level best to make certain I never wander into a thread you started. I would hate to be disrespectful to you by saying something that I thought was "light hearted" and you thought was "silly."

That's fine with me....I doubt that any thread I'd start would be of interest to you anyway.

But did you miss the words "irrelevant humor" in my posting? Surely you know the difference between light hearted humor and irrelevant humor? ...and my "idea" of ownership is not so novel a concept....I moderate a couple of different forums and the idea of keeping a thread somewhat focused on the original poster's topic is how most forums operate. Sure. threads drift off topic from time to time, but that does not mean a thread should go completely off track.

Ea
03-25-2009, 03:56 AM
Moejoe, that was funny :)

RickyMaveety, your latest posts have sounded a bit "prickly" and discontent and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think you are reading more into it than what was meant - I don't think you should worry so much.

How can I explain...? I'll try. I have thought of posting threads in The Lounge but have been afraid that in that place they would end up becoming "slow chat" threads with little actual topic content, much less than I would prefer myself. I am also not personally that comfortable in a place where there is a lot chat and social banter going on, like the Lounge - mainly because I find it hard to navigate the social rules - and the more 'loose' the social interaction, the more hidden the rules tend to be, and thus harder to navigate - I sometimes find it prohibitively hard to even try (in general, not just here). If it's more a *discussion* with focus on a topic, it's easier and I am much more inclined to participate.

And where am I going with all this? Well, I don't "hear" people saying that humour and fun is not allowed outside the Lounge or that there is a war on silliness. But I, and apparently others - for a variety of reasons(*), miss a place where the tone - from the outset - is more focused on discussing a topic than it is on social interaction. As it is, I see the Lounge as a place where one would go primarily for being social chat and talk, not discussion. I hope the way I distinguish between discussion and chat/talk is comprehensible?

As a newbie/ousider, the lounge is not a place I would immediately think of if I had a topic I wanted to *discuss* that wasn't really covered by the other forums. It's a certain place, with a certain tone and mode of interaction - and it's fine for what is - but it isn't a catch-all.

(*) edit: this is just my personal reason, no-one else's

Moejoe
03-25-2009, 04:13 AM
Moejoe, that was funny :)

RickyMaveety, your latest posts have sounded a bit "prickly" and discontent and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think you are reading more into it than what was meant - I don't think you should worry so much.

How can I explain...? I'll try. I have thought of posting threads in The Lounge but have been afraid that in that place they would end up becoming "slow chat" threads with little actual topic content, much less than I would prefer myself. I am also not personally that comfortable in a place where there is a lot chat and social banter going on, like the Lounge - mainly because I find it hard to navigate the social rules - and the more 'loose' the social interaction, the more hidden the rules tend to be, and thus harder to navigate - I sometimes find it prohibitively hard to even try (in general, not just here). If it's more a *discussion* with focus on a topic, it's easier and I am much more inclined to participate.

And where am I going with all this? Well, I don't "hear" people saying that humour and fun is not allowed outside the Lounge or that there is a war on silliness. But I, and apparently others, miss a place where the tone - from the outset - is more focused on discussing a topic than it is on social interaction. As it is, I see the Lounge as a place where one would go primarily for being social chat and talk, not discussion. I hope the way I distinguish between discussion and chat/talk is comprehensible?

As a newbie/ousider, the lounge is not a place I would immediately think of if I had a topic I wanted to *discuss* that wasn't really covered by the other forums. It's a certain place, with a certain tone and mode of interaction - and it's fine for what is - but it isn't a catch-all.

I think the idea that you can somehow reign in conversation is absurd. You might be able to force it into compliance, but any conversation is bound to take a turn away from the original question under discussion. It's just how we work as people, spring-boarding from one idea to the next. I was recently in a forum where the discussion of Stephen King's new novel turned into a discussion of celibacy and teenage morality (mostly my fault). But the discussion deepens with every twist and turn, with every funny quip or insult. If those lobbying for this 'more serious' sub-forum are serious then we may as well have it structured as we would in a debate, its the only sure-fire way to keep a topic on the straight and narrow. And then we're into ridiculous rules of conduct that kill spontaneity and the joy of conversing with others in a community. I want to be surprised by other people's opinions, I want to smile when someone says something silly or out of the blue, I want to engage in arguments about topics I care about also.

There are already places here fit for all those topics and also combined with each other. It would be a sad day indeed if we reduced this community into factions because of the percieved 'non-serious' nature of the Lounge. Already people here are getting annoyed and feeling attacked, on both sides, because of this ridiculous proposition.

The Lounge is fit for purpose and it serves that purpose well. If some users don't like the silly bits, don't read them, post 'serious' topics (I've done it in the past). Like the silly bits, then jump in and have some fun. The people here are friendly and fun-loving, for the most part, they won't mind :)

pshrynk
03-25-2009, 10:34 AM
My vision of another section that is designed for more "serious" discussions is not to exclude those of us who like being silly (and I realize that I am a main offender when it comes to being silly) but to rather have a place that those who want to discuss a topic with minimal diversions to have a place to go.

It is not Silly v Serious, but just a defining of areas. The Lounge has become, for better or worse, a place where jokes and pranks are the norm. A Club, or Salon, or Drawing Room, or Whatever, would be the place that is more about on topic talk.

I can understand the reluctance to jump into the Lounge by Newcomers. It was daunting to me when I started, as well. I would have to say, however, that that is the situation with any area of any forum. I really do see the utility of expansion of the Forum. Not because I want to be exclusive and divisive, but because I like to see lots of options for everyone.

Lady Blue
03-25-2009, 10:38 AM
What he said (and what I was trying to say earlier.)

kazbates
03-25-2009, 11:09 AM
As another new member, I too have been intimidated by the Lounge forum. I don't understand many of the inside jokes either and feel much like the new kid at school - wanting to make connections but feeling as if I am intruding. Although, I will say that my feelings are based more on my own perceptions than by any interaction with the posters to MobileRead. For the most part, people have been friendly and welcoming no matter what subforum to which I am posting.

I came to MobileRead looking for information about my new reader and found a great place for lively discussions on topics near and dear to my heart. I generally read the topic of a thread and if it looks like something that would be interesting to me, I start reading. If I decide I have anything of value to contribute, I wade in to the stream. Occasionally these threads go off topic for a short while, but eventually return to the main reason for the posting. I have learned just as much from a thread when it goes off topic as I have with the original intent of the post. However, I get very frustrated when these threads get hijacked and degenerate into something else. When that happens, I just stop reading the thread. What that means is that if the thread does get back on topic, I will have missed information that may have been of value or interest to me.

I don't know whether a new sub-forum will help. I do feel that people who begin threads in the Lounge should do so with the understanding that it could degenerate into silliness. Consequently, perhaps a separate forum would keep that from happening, which I would grately appreciate. However, I think it all boils down to common courtesy. I have never been shy about posting my opinion, but I try to do it without insulting anyone and by being courteous to the other posters on that thread, many of whom are not there for the banter but are there to discuss a topic that they find interesting and of some value. If you have a tendency toward the absurd, that's great! Just be aware of whether or not it is appropriate to the discussion. :)
Kaz

kazbates
03-25-2009, 11:15 AM
Oh, and I am also glad that this discussion was reopened. It felt a little like my parents telling me that we could no longer discuss a topic because they were tired of talking about it.

Of course, my own children have accused me of this at times, so I can understand the appeal. :o

Kaz

Ralph Sir Edward
03-25-2009, 11:29 AM
What I think is needed may not be supportable with the current site software. I think there need to be an "Off-Topic" flag that can be set on a post, and the ability to select all posts on a thread or just ones either "on-topic" or "off-topic". That way serious people could just "not see" off-topic posts (when and if they occur.)

The poster would be responsible for setting the topic flag....

JSWolf
03-25-2009, 11:36 AM
My vision of another section that is designed for more "serious" discussions is not to exclude those of us who like being silly (and I realize that I am a main offender when it comes to being silly) but to rather have a place that those who want to discuss a topic with minimal diversions to have a place to go.

It is not Silly v Serious, but just a defining of areas. The Lounge has become, for better or worse, a place where jokes and pranks are the norm. A Club, or Salon, or Drawing Room, or Whatever, would be the place that is more about on topic talk.

I can understand the reluctance to jump into the Lounge by Newcomers. It was daunting to me when I started, as well. I would have to say, however, that that is the situation with any area of any forum. I really do see the utility of expansion of the Forum. Not because I want to be exclusive and divisive, but because I like to see lots of options for everyone.
Yes, that is the perfect way to say it. That's what I meant. Just not said as well. Thank you.

pshrynk
03-25-2009, 11:43 AM
I'd charge you $300 but that would be silly. :p

JSWolf
03-25-2009, 11:45 AM
I'd charge you $300 but that would be silly. :p
What would be sillier is when you get the money and find the only place it's usable is for playing Monopoly.

DixieGal
03-25-2009, 11:46 AM
What I think is needed may not be supportable with the current site software. I think there need to be an "Off-Topic" flag that can be set on a post, and the ability to select all posts on a thread or just ones either "on-topic" or "off-topic". That way serious people could just "not see" off-topic posts (when and if they occur.)

The poster would be responsible for setting the topic flag....

But that's the rub. It's hard enough to remember the "silliness" prefix, and I have not been able to figure out yet how to go back and add it after the fact.

pshrynk
03-25-2009, 11:51 AM
I think that the initial "us v them" feeling of a new section would very quickly ear off. I know for certain that I would post in the On Topic Section as well as the Lounge. It's just my nature.

When the Writer's Corner was put up, there was some discussion about whether or not to "allow" silliness. That soon disappeared as the section developed a life of its own. There are now short stroies being created that are silly right alongside discussions about crafting stories and examples of poetry and "serious" stories with some dark bent to them.

As my Mom, the wisest woman I've ever met says, "Everything will work out for the best." Note that seh didn't say that it will work out the way you want it to...

kazbates
03-25-2009, 12:12 PM
I think that the initial "us v them" feeling of a new section would very quickly ear off. I know for certain that I would post in the On Topic Section as well as the Lounge. It's just my nature.

When the Writer's Corner was put up, there was some discussion about whether or not to "allow" silliness. That soon disappeared as the section developed a life of its own. There are now short stroies being created that are silly right alongside discussions about crafting stories and examples of poetry and "serious" stories with some dark bent to them.

As my Mom, the wisest woman I've ever met says, "Everything will work out for the best." Note that seh didn't say that it will work out the way you want it to...

I think your mother is a very wise woman! :)

I am sorry that it seems to have digressed to an US vs Them feeling at all! :( I am sure that wasn't the purpose of the original post. Although I rarely understand many of the inside jokes and double entendre (the squirrel references being a point in fact), I get a chuckle out of reading others' responses to them. I like to look through the Lounge now and then and read some of the posts there even though I feel insecure in posting to them. I know that I too would be interested in both the Lounge section and a less silly section. I like diversity and the idea that I have a choice.
Kaz

Lady Blue
03-25-2009, 12:16 PM
But that's the rub. It's hard enough to remember the "silliness" prefix, and I have not been able to figure out yet how to go back and add it after the fact.

I just experienced the opposite situation. I started a thread with the silliness prefix (Remember When . . .) ONLY because I assumed it would quickly degenerate to that state. GeoffC had asked why it was tagged "Silliness" because it hadn't really jumped the track. For the most part it touched more on "Reflections" than crazy insanity. I couldn't REMOVE the silliness prefix however, to possibly attract those who didn't wish to be silly, and I think it's already died a sad death (possibly because of the tag - or maybe in spite of it.) :o

My sad attempt at a topic (in the lounge) that I believed was central to EVERYONE (memories) just went poof; possibly because I didn't classify it right (or maybe because I just don't know what I'm doing.) :(

mtravellerh
03-25-2009, 12:20 PM
My sad attempt at a topic (in the lounge) that I believed was central to EVERYONE (memories) just went poof; possibly because I didn't classify it right (or maybe because I just don't know what I'm doing.) :(

Take it easy, Lady. We are all just on a learning curve here. So book it under experience and try again. :)

Nate the great
03-25-2009, 12:23 PM
I think your mother is a very wise woman! :)

I am sorry that it seems to have digressed to an US vs Them feeling at all! :(


Actually, I would say that it was our anti-silly long time members who created the feeling. Your posts helped lessen it. Thank you.

HarryT
03-25-2009, 12:26 PM
But that's the rub. It's hard enough to remember the "silliness" prefix, and I have not been able to figure out yet how to go back and add it after the fact.

"Edit" then "Advanced" allows you to change the thread prefix.

pshrynk
03-25-2009, 12:29 PM
The "Us v Them" feel is the thing that some moderators are fearful of if there is a new section. I feel strongly that any of that feeling will quickly self-repair and the forum will be stronger for it.

kazbates
03-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Actually, I would say that it was our anti-silly long time members who created the feeling. Your posts helped lessen it. Thank you.

Your Welcome and it was kind of you to say it. :)

The "Us v Them" feel is the thing that some moderators are fearful of if there is a new section. I feel strongly that any of that feeling will quickly self-repair and the forum will be stronger for it.

I really don't believe that it would continue once a new section was created. Many times that sort of thing only rears it's ugly head when you're in the initial discussion phase. Although, friendly rivalries such as the one between Kindle owners and Sony Reader owners can be very invigorating and enlightening. ;)

I am a big believer in "to each his own".
Kaz

RickyMaveety
03-25-2009, 01:38 PM
My vision of another section that is designed for more "serious" discussions is not to exclude those of us who like being silly (and I realize that I am a main offender when it comes to being silly) but to rather have a place that those who want to discuss a topic with minimal diversions to have a place to go.

It is not Silly v Serious, but just a defining of areas. The Lounge has become, for better or worse, a place where jokes and pranks are the norm. A Club, or Salon, or Drawing Room, or Whatever, would be the place that is more about on topic talk.

I can understand the reluctance to jump into the Lounge by Newcomers. It was daunting to me when I started, as well. I would have to say, however, that that is the situation with any area of any forum. I really do see the utility of expansion of the Forum. Not because I want to be exclusive and divisive, but because I like to see lots of options for everyone.

Well said .... and coming from a person of major silliness, its is also well thought out.

Yes, that is the perfect way to say it. That's what I meant. Just not said as well. Thank you.

No, truly Wolfie, you didn't come anywhere close to expressing that.

I still think a lock-step on topic area would be a place I would avoid. Sometimes I read a thread title and it looks interesting, but then you read the original post and .... not so much.

So, rather than wade through a bunch of potentially boring crap, I will bow out of it. Not to make it an "us vs. them" thing ... as much as it is an "interesting vs. deadly dull" sort of thing for me.

Ralph Sir Edward
03-25-2009, 02:10 PM
I think that the initial "us v them" feeling of a new section would very quickly ear off. I know for certain that I would post in the On Topic Section as well as the Lounge. It's just my nature.

When the Writer's Corner was put up, there was some discussion about whether or not to "allow" silliness. That soon disappeared as the section developed a life of its own. There are now short stroies being created that are silly right alongside discussions about crafting stories and examples of poetry and "serious" stories with some dark bent to them.

As my Mom, the wisest woman I've ever met says, "Everything will work out for the best." Note that seh didn't say that it will work out the way you want it to...


As a writer of silly stories, I didn't request they be put in with the serious discussions on writing. I asked the moderators where I should post, and they said Writer's Corner....I will happily post whereever it causes people the least grief....RSE

tompe
03-25-2009, 02:21 PM
Keep in mind that, as he says, he is not talking about "serious" posts .... he is talking about not silly posts. What those are, I haven't a freaking clue.


I tried to explain this. The distinction between a forum thread and a forum thread used for a slow chat is useful. The difference is that some threads here are only interesting to read if you are on top of them and participate. Reading them a week later is not so interesting.

DixieGal
03-25-2009, 02:39 PM
As a writer of silly stories, I didn't request they be put in with the serious discussions on writing. I asked the moderators where I should post, and they said Writer's Corner....I will happily post whereever it causes people the least grief....RSE

No no no, don't move it. I'm waaaay behind on my Red and Harv&Vera reading. Right now, I can find them. If you move them, well, I'll lose them again.

Listen, each and all of y'all is welcome to be silly or not silly, depending on your personality. Remember the introvert vs extrovert poll? I think Rickey and me were the only extroverts in the crowd. So I can't really empathasize with not feeling welcome, etc. But I can sympathasize with you that you feel like you walked into an in-crowd riot in progress in the llounge.

Somehow, all of those introverts managed to find a niche in our happy little llounge community. So will anyone else who wants to play. If you want to know about the squirrels or llamas or pandorg or anything else, just ask and you will get a ton of meaningless replies, each with a kernel of info.

If the silliness bothers you, well, just ignore us llounge llizards. I personally stay on mostly llounge or welcome threads, because I'm not a computer person and have little to offer in a technical manner. If you are an expert in one of the devices but don't want to spend your time goofing off, then PLEASE understand that what you contribute to the tech side of things is very much appreciated. I'm in awe of you and can only dream of having your talent to understand such things. Certain ones of the experts have proven so trustworthy and helpful that I lurk on their threads trying to pick up any pointers that may be casually tossed out and easily understood by others but are difficult for me. (PilotBob, Nick, JSWolf, just to name 3, also pdurrant, guarnin, =X=, oh gosh, my list keeps getting longer! I love you all!) And our news crew only occasionally comes out to play, but they are always on top of anything important that we need to know.

I want to apologize if my silliness has offended anyone. And I hope you will forgive me if my next silly post is offensive or insensitive. Because I want you all on my "friend" list and want to be on yours, and would never want to push away a potential friend.

I've said my say, so I'm going back to the llounge now, but will check back from time to time to see how this discussion is going. I have confidence that you all will continue to discuss this in the mature and open manner that it has been done already. One thing is certain about this community is that we are unique in that we embrace each other, no matter if we agree with one another. Oh, and another thing: :mrrox:

RickyMaveety
03-25-2009, 03:01 PM
I tried to explain this. The distinction between a forum thread and a forum thread used for a slow chat is useful. The difference is that some threads here are only interesting to read if you are on top of them and participate. Reading them a week later is not so interesting.

And there are many threads that are not interesting from the get go. So, what's your point?

I find many threads easy to participate in .... even if you don't keep "on top" of them. That's the beauty of them .... you don't have to slog through 250 pages of prior posts in order to jump in.

Those are the posts that, reading them a week later, or two weeks later, is very interesting. They aren't hideously dated.

The best discussions are those where no one's iron fist of total control dictates. To illustrate, I have recently posted something that was intended (by me) to spark some intellectual discussion and research. It's doing nothing of the sort ... because I do not "own" the thread .... I do not "control" the thread.

So, why not have a separate forum for all the posts that are not interesting? You know .... starting out, even the original poster knows that no one is going to be interested, and then we put those posts there and we can all ignore them.

Wetdogeared
03-26-2009, 01:10 PM
If you click on New Posts on the main forums display, you can exclude E-Book Uploads.
Would it be easy to exclude Unutterably Silly threads also?

User CP (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/usercp.php) E-Books http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/mr/misc/menu_open.gif (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/ebooks.php?order=desc&sort=dateline) New Posts http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/mr/misc/menu_open.gif (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew) Search http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/mr/misc/menu_open.gif (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php) Community http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/mr/misc/menu_open.gif (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1807963&nojs=1#community) Quick Links http://www.mobileread.com/forums/images/mr/misc/menu_open.gif (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1807963&nojs=1#usercptools) Log Out (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/login.php?do=logout&logouthash=1238082666-1170f6eb1c9cff7e9997faa63c213260ef68ab94)

Pull down options are:

All New Posts (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew)
- w/o E-Book Uploads (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew&exclude=126,128,130,138,153)
Last 24 Hours (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=1)
Last 2 Days (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=2)
Last 5 Days (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily&days=5)
Your Posts (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&userid=24319)

WDE.

Alexander Turcic
03-26-2009, 01:12 PM
@WDE: Unfortunately it's not possible to exclude threads based on their prefixes at the current stage.

I just posted a poll where you can vote on how we should proceed with the lounge:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43397

JSWolf
10-08-2009, 08:14 PM
After looking at the news and commentary section, the new forum section I suggested that's not the Lounge is where this commentary should be going. I did not mean for it to be really serious threads. But that way we can get the commentary separate from the news. I do feel that news and commentary is getting to be a bit of a miss-mash with all the commentary in there. Makes it harder to find what is news and what isn't.