View Full Version : Is there an anti-LCD/pro-Eink bias on MobileRead?


Nate the great
03-13-2009, 01:33 PM
Some time ago I noticed a pattern here on MobileRead. It seemed to me that there was a nearly complete disregard for LCD based ebook readers in favor of Eink based ones.

If there is a bias, I'd like to correct it. I don't want to see devices brushed aside cavalierly, nor should members here be marginalized becuase they went against the groupthink. I'd like to hear from anyone who doesn't own an ebook reader with an Eink screen. What do you think?

HarryT
03-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Given that you yourself do own an eInk device, Nate, you have just disqualified your own opinion. Many of us here - yourself and myself included - own and use devices with both types of screen. For reading, my view is the eInk devices are superior, due to the total lack of screen flicker, lack of reflectivity, and very low power consumption. For other types of activity, LCD clearly "wins out" due to the very slow refresh rate of eInk. I wouldn't want to write a letter on an eInk screen.

It's a case of using the best tool for the task at hand. I am typing this message on a device with an LCD screen.

Nate the great
03-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Given that you yourself do own an eInk device, Nate, you have just disqualified your own opinion. Many of us here - yourself and myself included - own and use devices with both types of screen.

As much as I love the Kindle, I'm very happy to use something else. The main reason I still have it is to test the formatting of ebooks I make, and buy ebooks from the Kindle store.

AnemicOak
03-13-2009, 01:43 PM
Well, the Jetbook is getting talked up quite a bit and that's not an eInk device. iPhone/Touch seem to get a fair amount of play. Ebookwise still seems to get a healthy amount of discussion. I don't think there's a bias other than the fact that a lot of what's talked about is the new and exciting and in most cases that's going to be an eInk type device. For the most part that's what's coming out so that's what people are buying & discussing.

daffy4u
03-13-2009, 01:47 PM
I admit to being guilty (I was really surprised that you prefer to read on LCD). I never liked reading books on my computer screen. It was okay reading them on my Handspring Visor. I didn't/couldn't really embrace ebooks until e-ink hit the scene. For me it is so much easier to read.

I hereby acknowledge that e-ink is not the best form of ebook reading for everyone and will try to have a more open mind.

DixieGal
03-13-2009, 01:49 PM
I loved my EB1150 very much. I have stated before that it was an emotional attachment, like one feels for a pet or something. The Sony is nothing like that at all.

I loved LCD and the backlight very much. Absolutely hate the lightwedge cover on the Sony, but it's better than nothing.

If only there was more content available that could be easily zoomed to extra large fonts, I never would have switched. It's in a good home now and I can see it from here, propped up on my friend's desk so that she can read and eat lunch at the same time.

I get a little tear of nostalgia every time I see it.

kacir
03-13-2009, 02:15 PM
If there is a bias, I'd like to correct it. I don't want to see devices brushed aside cavalierly, nor should members here be marginalized becuase they went against the groupthink. I'd like to hear from anyone who doesn't own an ebook reader with an Eink screen. What do you think?
There are two kinds of LCD displays
1. those that can work without backlight - like on very old palms, calculators and digital watches and old monochrome mobile phones
2. and bright ones that need backlight - a good example is notebook display, modern color mobile phones.

My first e-book reader was a notebook (several of them).
I look at the bright screen for 8 hour a day at work and several hours at home and I have no problem with that, but when it comes to reading e-books ...

So I got an old Cassiopeia A-11 and later A-20 with display of the first kind. At first my only reason for using Cassiopeia was that it was much more portable. Yet, very soon I started to prefer non-backlight display for reading (despite the fact that Cassiopeia has very low contrast display). I have used my Cassiopeias for years as my primary e-book readers.

Then I purchased PRS-500.
Holy $DEITY!
In terms of readability there is no question for me which is better.
The PRS-500 has the oldest generation of e-ink, and I suspect that my display has lower contrast than it had when it was new. Yet it is still magnitude better for me ...


There are quite a few people here that do not tolerate flashing of the e-ink
and still others that want to read in bed without disturbing their spouse.

wayrad
03-13-2009, 02:44 PM
Thanks Nate, it's nice to see some acknowledgement of the fact that not everyone reads on e-ink. Not that I feel there's any deliberate marginalization going on - it's just that the majority of people here have e-ink readers, so that's what conversation centers around.

Personally, I have no plans to abandon my Zodiac because 1) It serves a multitude of purposes besides reading; 2) it's the largest device I can envision myself carrying all the time, and being able to have reading material with me constantly is, for me, the main advantage of e-books; 3) it has lovely ergonomics; 4) battery life hasn't been a problem for me, although it doesn't approach that of an e-ink device;5) the screen size seems fine to me (as wide as a paperback, but shorter vertically), as does the resolution and the backlighting; and 6) it gives me enormous flexibility with regard to reading apps, file formats, sources for books, and their appearance on the screen. If it ever wears out...well, I guess I'll have to pull out the backup Zodiac.:D

pilotbob
03-14-2009, 02:00 PM
I admit to being guilty (I was really surprised that you prefer to read on LCD). I never liked reading books on my computer screen.

See this is a common misconception. Most people don't like reading from a PC's LCD screen due to the back light. There are LCD screens that are reflexively lit just like an eInk screen.

BOb

Nate the great
03-14-2009, 02:09 PM
See this is a common misconception. Most people don't like reading from a PC's LCD screen due to the back light. There are LCD screens that are reflexively lit just like an eInk screen.

BOb

I also think that the angle of the screen is part of the reason why people don't like reading on their computer - it's not comfortable for your neck.

daffy4u
03-14-2009, 02:15 PM
See this is a common misconception. Most people don't like reading from a PC's LCD screen due to the back light. There are LCD screens that are reflexively lit just like an eInk screen.

BOb

Which ebook readers have that kind of screen? Jetbook?

DaleDe
03-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Which ebook readers have that kind of screen? Jetbook?

Yes the Jetbook has this kind of screen. Read about it on the our wiki
http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Reflective_LCD

Dale

Nate the great
03-14-2009, 02:40 PM
Which ebook readers have that kind of screen? Jetbook?

The Jetbook, as well as most early PDAs.

daffy4u
03-14-2009, 02:43 PM
The Jetbook, as well as most early PDAs.

My Visor was an early PDA. If the Jetbook is like that, I'll stick with e-ink but again I understand that what works for me doesn't work for everyone. :)


Edit: After looking at DaleDe's link to the wiki, I see that these new LCD screens have a much higher resolution and do look much better than my old Visor.

rhadin
03-14-2009, 03:37 PM
I admit to being guilty (I was really surprised that you prefer to read on LCD). I never liked reading books on my computer screen. . . . I didn't/couldn't really embrace ebooks until e-ink hit the scene. For me it is so much easier to read.

Daffy says it well. I spend 8-10 hours a day reading manuscript on my computer screen (LCD). The very last thing I want to do is read for pleasure on it. Additionally, like Daffy, I find eInk much easier on the eyes.

kacir
03-14-2009, 05:20 PM
Which ebook readers have that kind of screen? Jetbook?
Yes
and Cassiopeia A-11 and Cassiopeia A-20
and many many older PDAs that can be purchased very cheap third-hand

astra
03-14-2009, 06:25 PM
Nate the great

I am not siding with anyone. I have my own priorities.
I never read ebooks before eInk because of eye strain.
Sony Reader with eInk & battery life & wonderful text display; is the perfect solution for me. Anything with non eInk screen is not an option for me, because of eyestrain. So, I do not visit most of non prs-505 forums. I give a cursory glance to kindle, prs-700/500 forums and follow News and Announcement forums and avoid Lounge since karma whores invasion. I think it might explain why if not all, but many of the eInk owners do not interract directly with non eInk owners :) We just frequent different pubs, although they across the road...:p

Marysart
03-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Nate the great

forums and avoid Lounge since karma whores invasion.

What's a Karma Whore? :) Seriously, just curious.

You know, I actually liked reading on my Franklin ebookman before it died on me, despite it's many major faults.
I liked the screen.
Sure, I had to angle it because of reflectiveness sometimes, but for me it was ok.
I have to mention that I have 20/20 vision though...
If I find another one used, I think I'll buy it.

JSWolf
03-15-2009, 08:49 AM
Well, the Jetbook is getting talked up quite a bit and that's not an eInk device. iPhone/Touch seem to get a fair amount of play. Ebookwise still seems to get a healthy amount of discussion. I don't think there's a bias other than the fact that a lot of what's talked about is the new and exciting and in most cases that's going to be an eInk type device. For the most part that's what's coming out so that's what people are buying & discussing.
The Jetbook got slammed not because it is LCD. It got slammed because it's only 5" and the formats it support were not good enough. Still aren't (IMHO) until they get ePub and Mobipocket out there for it. But it'll still be a 5" screen.

JSWolf
03-15-2009, 08:52 AM
See this is a common misconception. Most people don't like reading from a PC's LCD screen due to the back light. There are LCD screens that are reflexively lit just like an eInk screen.

BOb
Given the amount of reading people do on this forum, you could have read lots of ebooks on the same LCD screen that you used to read MR. So if reading MR is not a problem, why is reading an eBook a problem? When I started really reading eBooks, I was using an LCD monitor and then LCD screen of a laptop. I got the Sony so I could be more portable. The laptop is not portable enough.

Nate the great
03-15-2009, 09:00 AM
Nate the great

...avoid Lounge...

That's a shame. You're missing a lot of funny posts. And most aren't nonsense; we have some really clever people here. If you don't read Marc's posts, then you are really missing out. Not reading my posts, on the other hand, is probably better for your health. I know 6 people here who don't eat or drink while reading my post. They're afraid of choking to death.

And then there are all the meta-jokes that have come into existence.:snicker:

astra
03-15-2009, 09:06 AM
What's a Karma Whore? :) Seriously, just curious.

You know, I actually liked reading on my Franklin ebookman before it died on me, despite it's many major faults.
I liked the screen.
Sure, I had to angle it because of reflectiveness sometimes, but for me it was ok.
I have to mention that I have 20/20 vision though...
If I find another one used, I think I'll buy it.

It is the internet forum term that is used on forums where giving karma or reputation feature is used. Karmawhore or repwhore. People who trade karma between "friends" in order to gain more of karma/reputation regardless of the original idea(not a law, just a common sense) why one should give away karma/rep. They also abuse the system by posting many meaningless posts (not necessary trolling just useless) in order to rise number of posts and have more power to give more rep/karma.
On many forums the result is usually either rep gaining/giving abilities are changed by implementing a new calculating formulas, thus leaving anyone who didn't participate in the active "trading" process forever behind, or/and removing the feature altogether because it has been misused. Another "preventative" measure that is being used is that a number of posts in flame/lounge areas of forums is not being counted (so useless posts are not added to a number of posts of a particular user). But if it happens after the system was abused it still leaves the abusers way ahead of anyone else.

I even asked Alex to remove karma from my account, so I cannot see it and noone can give karma to me but apparently it is impossible.

Marysart
03-15-2009, 09:08 AM
The Jetbook got slammed not because it is LCD. It got slammed because it's only 5" and the formats it support were not good enough. Still aren't (IMHO) until they get ePub and Mobipocket out there for it. But it'll still be a 5" screen.

I think they feel they can ask so much money for it because of the dictionaries it comes with.
It is also marketed as being a portable dictionary. I think what confuses me about the jetbook is: What are they primarily marketing it as? An ebookreader or a dictionary?

daffy4u
03-15-2009, 11:22 AM
Given the amount of reading people do on this forum, you could have read lots of ebooks on the same LCD screen that you used to read MR. So if reading MR is not a problem, why is reading an eBook a problem? When I started really reading eBooks, I was using an LCD monitor and then LCD screen of a laptop. I got the Sony so I could be more portable. The laptop is not portable enough.

For me, the difference is that posts are very short bursts and therefore easy to handle. I cannot read long blocks of text on a computer. I just shut down and can't read it. If a post is really long, I end up skimming it because it's just too much.

GeoffC
03-15-2009, 12:21 PM
I also think that the angle of the screen is part of the reason why people don't like reading on their computer - it's not comfortable for your neck.

For me, the difference is that posts are very short bursts and therefore easy to handle. I cannot read long blocks of text on a computer. I just shut down and can't read it. If a post is really long, I end up skimming it because it's just too much.


I have the same issues ....

DaleDe
03-15-2009, 07:05 PM
What's a Karma Whore? :) Seriously, just curious.

You know, I actually liked reading on my Franklin ebookman before it died on me, despite it's many major faults.
I liked the screen.
Sure, I had to angle it because of reflectiveness sometimes, but for me it was ok.
I have to mention that I have 20/20 vision though...
If I find another one used, I think I'll buy it.

Karma whore is when 3 (a few) people get together and just raise each others scores just to be silly and drive the value way up. It kind of defeats the idea of rewarding someone.

Etaco still sells the Franklin eBookman. I think they have the only stock left although you might find one on eBay. Etaco also sells the JetBook which I am led to believe is a better screen than the eBookman.

Dale

InlawBiker
03-15-2009, 07:33 PM
I look at it this way - if people were perfectly happy to read on LCD screens then nobody would've spent so much time and energy developing e-ink.

Personally I can't see myself ever reading on a LCD device. Maybe they'll improve the tablet computers enough but I doubt it'll happen soon.

Ervserver
03-15-2009, 07:37 PM
The Netbook computers are very attractive these days

hidari
03-15-2009, 08:30 PM
For me, the difference is that posts are very short bursts and therefore easy to handle. I cannot read long blocks of text on a computer. I just shut down and can't read it. If a post is really long, I end up skimming it because it's just too much.


Not sure about you; However, If a a website has an article that is too long, I just cut paste to Open Office along with other articles that I have found and read them on my ebook reader later in the day. It is much more relaxing on the eyes and with less neck strain.

I must confess to being converted to E-INK. The EASYNESS on the eyes, amazing battery life and portability are my reasons for preferring E-ink to LCDS....

Gideon
03-15-2009, 09:56 PM
Given that you yourself do own an eInk device, Nate, you have just disqualified your own opinion. Many of us here - yourself and myself included - own and use devices with both types of screen. For reading, my view is the eInk devices are superior, due to the total lack of screen flicker, lack of reflectivity, and very low power consumption. For other types of activity, LCD clearly "wins out" due to the very slow refresh rate of eInk. I wouldn't want to write a letter on an eInk screen.

It's a case of using the best tool for the task at hand. I am typing this message on a device with an LCD screen.

That.

From my perspective LCD flatly sucks for reading. I'll do it in a pinch (often grab a few pages of reading on my iPhone) but still... not even a comparison.

But I'm no purist. Something better than eInk comes out I'm there. Whatever gets the job done.

palex481
03-15-2009, 10:20 PM
I think there is a place for both technologies in the world of reading. An iPhone is a good complement to a traditional e-ink reader. With either Stanza or the Kindle app, you can read the same books on both devices. The reason the iPhone is better sometimes is because when I have downtime at work, I can read on my iPhone and pass it off as checking my email should someone come by. Whereas with the Kindle, this doesn't work. I always have my iPhone, not always a reader.

pilotbob
03-15-2009, 10:35 PM
Personally I can't see myself ever reading on a LCD device. Maybe they'll improve the tablet computers enough but I doubt it'll happen soon.

I have to say, I read 4 books on the Jetbook when I was reviewing it. If I had to give reasons why I would prefer another device the screen itself was not high on the list. It was sharp, clear and fast.

BOb

DaleDe
03-16-2009, 01:10 AM
I have to say, I read 4 books on the Jetbook when I was reviewing it. If I had to give reasons why I would prefer another device the screen itself was not high on the list. It was sharp, clear and fast.

BOb

The basic problem here is half the people or more in the discussion believe all LCD displays are the same. The name already turns them off to the display technology. Watches are LCD also but no body gets a headache from them. All LCD's are not the same.

Dale

amgoforth
03-16-2009, 01:19 AM
Given that you yourself do own an eInk device, Nate, you have just disqualified your own opinion. Many of us here - yourself and myself included - own and use devices with both types of screen. For reading, my view is the eInk devices are superior, due to the total lack of screen flicker, lack of reflectivity, and very low power consumption. For other types of activity, LCD clearly "wins out" due to the very slow refresh rate of eInk. I wouldn't want to write a letter on an eInk screen.

It's a case of using the best tool for the task at hand. I am typing this message on a device with an LCD screen.

I agree with Harry. I own both kinds. I would like to see a large screen, but not heavy, LCD based reader to read PDFs on, because of the slowness of the eink readers.:chinscratch:

amgoforth
03-16-2009, 01:24 AM
The Jetbook got slammed not because it is LCD. It got slammed because it's only 5" and the formats it support were not good enough. Still aren't (IMHO) until they get ePub and Mobipocket out there for it. But it'll still be a 5" screen.

If the Jetbook had a large screen to read PDFs on I would buy one and use that. I have a J:thumbsup:etbook and have read on it quite a bit, just not PDFs.

amgoforth
03-16-2009, 01:28 AM
I have the same issues ....

Not to disagree, but I bet you read more on an LCD then you realize. I know I was amazed when I recently started noticing how much time I spend on the internet.:smack:

GeoffC
03-16-2009, 07:58 AM
Not to disagree, but I bet you read more on an LCD then you realize. I know I was amazed when I recently started noticing how much time I spend on the internet.:smack:

When I factor in how much time I spend reading BBC website and MR - my LCD useage is way higher. But I don't like reading longish articles on a flat screen LCD, and certainly feel uncomfortable reading a novel on one even if just to review. - mind you, it could be my age, and again my LCD useage has massively decreased since I left work where 12 hour shifts in front of screens was increasingly unpleasant.

Sweetpea
03-16-2009, 05:32 PM
That.

From my perspective LCD flatly sucks for reading. I'll do it in a pinch (often grab a few pages of reading on my iPhone) but still... not even a comparison.

But I'm no purist. Something better than eInk comes out I'm there. Whatever gets the job done.

I don't like those new highly glossy LCD screens on modern laptops, and cellphones.

I use my PDA for reading. It has a transflective LCD screen and is very easy on the eyes. It both reflects and transmits light. It's not too bright and very easy to read in day light. And it most certainly isn't glossy... (I'd only see myself in it...)

The main reason I want an e-ink book is because it is cool...


What's a Karma Whore? :) Seriously, just curious.

You know, I actually liked reading on my Franklin ebookman before it died on me, despite it's many major faults.
I liked the screen.
Sure, I had to angle it because of reflectiveness sometimes, but for me it was ok.
I have to mention that I have 20/20 vision though...
If I find another one used, I think I'll buy it.

And I got two, in perfect working condition :D

Marysart
03-16-2009, 05:49 PM
Wanna sell one to me? :) I'm serious.

InlawBiker
03-16-2009, 06:32 PM
I have to say, I read 4 books on the Jetbook when I was reviewing it. If I had to give reasons why I would prefer another device the screen itself was not high on the list. It was sharp, clear and fast.

BOb

Hmm, yah maybe I just need to be educated. All I know is, I would never take my laptop to bed to read.

If they got the screen, battery and heat issues fixed I could see tablet computers taking over. Especially since they could double as a real computer. For now though I like e-ink.

Lemurion
03-24-2009, 10:47 PM
I've read hundreds of books on LCD, and less than one on E-Ink (I just bought my Sony Reader two hours ago). I can still read happily on LCD, but there are certain things that make E-Ink compelling to me.

1) Battery Life: I read very fast and the idea of a device that can last through multiple books is a goodness.
2) Screen Size: I can't find a 6" LCD device and while the Jetbook is close at 5" the combination of its price and format support keep it off my shortlist.
3) Daylight Reading: I want to be able to read on the porch and it's easier to find an E-Ink device that supports that than an LCD device.

For me it's not that E-Ink is better by virtue of the name, but that the features I want most are only found in E-Ink devices.

pilotbob
03-24-2009, 10:50 PM
Hmm, yah maybe I just need to be educated. All I know is, I would never take my laptop to bed to read.

Ok. I guess I don't see how you make the leap from Jetbook to laptop?

BOb

Lemurion
03-24-2009, 11:13 PM
Ok. I guess I don't see how you make the leap from Jetbook to laptop?

BOb

I know I wouldn't read on my laptop in bed - but I've read more than a couple of books on my Palm TX or iPaq in bed. The backlight can be really handy when you have insomnia.

Nate the great
06-14-2009, 11:56 AM
*bump*

I decided to dig up this thread again becuase right now I'm currently seeing the anti-LCD bias here on MobileRead.

It's rather interesting that the bias seems to be one way. You don't see LCD supporters going to threads about a particular Eink reader and saying:

no backlight,
no color,

completely useless as an ebook reader

daffy4u
06-14-2009, 11:59 AM
I suggested a Jetbook to someone not long ago. I'm looking forward to the PixelQi product. I'm learning. :)

HarryT
06-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Some people prefer LCD; others prefer eInk. What's the big deal?

Sweetpea
06-14-2009, 01:00 PM
*bump*

I decided to dig up this thread again becuase right now I'm currently seeing the anti-LCD bias here on MobileRead.

It's rather interesting that the bias seems to be one way. You don't see LCD supporters going to threads about a particular Eink reader and saying:

My idea? The LCD supporters are safe in the knowledge that they have a good technology. No reason to defend it. While the e-ink supporters may harbour doubts about it and feel the need to defend it.

(why are some people jealous when their partner talks to somebody of the opposite sex, while others aren't? It might be the same problem...)

And I can post those things at every e-ink based device ;) (and you forgot the most import one: no touch-screen!)

And Harry, I sometimes get the feeling I'm a second-grade e-reader person, because I don't own an e-ink device. And from the responses from other people I think some others may feel the same. There are people that say LCD = bad, e-ink = good and nothing in between.

HarryT
06-14-2009, 02:31 PM
The important thing is that you're happy with what you've got. Let others think what they will; it's your choice that's important.

Nate the great
06-14-2009, 02:57 PM
My idea? The LCD supporters are safe in the knowledge that they have a good technology. No reason to defend it. While the e-ink supporters may harbour doubts about it and feel the need to defend it.

(why are some people jealous when their partner talks to somebody of the opposite sex, while others aren't? It might be the same problem...)

And I can post those things at every e-ink based device ;) (and you forgot the most import one: no touch-screen!)

And Harry, I sometimes get the feeling I'm a second-grade e-reader person, because I don't own an e-ink device. And from the responses from other people I think some others may feel the same. There are people that say LCD = bad, e-ink = good and nothing in between.

I'd rather you didn't. I think we should leave those kinds of comments to tech blogs like Gizmodo and Engadget.

netseeker
06-14-2009, 03:49 PM
Well, i use both: E-INK (Sony PRS-505) and LCD (Computer, Laptop, Netbook and iPod touch) and i prefer E-INK (I explained more than once in the forum why). But i would never say that LCD is generally useless and E-INK is perfect. First i had some prejudices against LCD but some friendly users here showed me that most of these prejudices were wrong. Now it's only my own experience that let's me prefer the one over the other.

I don't think that we have an an "anti-LCD/pro-Eink bias" here. Sometimes opinions are written just like facts and maybe E-INK supporters do this more often than LCD-supporters. So what? This is a discussion forum and not a playschool. If no one hyperventilates over a "anti-LCD/pro-Eink" or a "anti-Eink/pro-LCD" statement here and there then such statements aren't a big deal.

From time to time i would give a kingdom for either a LCD with the eye-friendly characteristics of an E-INK screen or an E-INK screen with the performance and robustness of a LCD...

Andybaby
06-14-2009, 05:19 PM
I'd rather you didn't. I think we should leave those kinds of comments to tech blogs like Gizmodo and Engadget.

that's what I was about to say. all those other blogs say that crap and its annoying. here is home of the E-ink

but, that's only because of the no backlight.

Its Not Anti LCD. its anti backlight that hurts our eyes.

most people are Pro Pixel Qi screen. and pro Innovation. E-ink has its limitations, no one is hoping it to fail, but we all want a perfect E-ink Like Display, with full color, and full 60 Refresh rate, with an optional backlight on or off. the pixel qi screen will not be able to do colors very well with the backlight off. so it's a step to that hybrid dream. but not there yet.

Who are you?
06-14-2009, 06:08 PM
*bump*

I decided to dig up this thread again becuase right now I'm currently seeing the anti-LCD bias here on MobileRead.

It's rather interesting that the bias seems to be one way. You don't see LCD supporters going to threads about a particular Eink reader and saying:

You however do see LCD retailers putting ads on eInk forums (even the moderators notice that these are obvious advertisments on unrelated forums, but don't delete the spam).

Ham88
06-14-2009, 07:15 PM
I personally don't think there is a anti-LCD movement. I think that people who are opposed to LCD devices (Jetbook) are because they think of the LCDs attached to their computers, and those aren't suited for reading but the screens on of ereaders with LCDs (Jetbook, again) aren't back lit or anything are for reading.

Sweetpea
06-15-2009, 02:53 AM
that's what I was about to say. all those other blogs say that crap and its annoying. here is home of the E-ink

but, that's only because of the no backlight.

Its Not Anti LCD. its anti backlight that hurts our eyes.

No, it doesn't hurt my eyes, so, it can't hurt "our" eyes...

Actually, what you write here, is what I find most annoying at most of the posts Nate refers at. Because you don't like it, or your eyes start to hurt, it doesn't mean everybody shouldn't like it and everybody's eyes will hurt.

It already makes a great difference if you say:

I don't like LCD because the backlight makes my eyes hurt

instead of:

LCD isn't good for reading because it'll make your eyes hurt.

Beside, this is the home for e-reader devices, be they e-ink, LCD or any other screen.

Andybaby
06-15-2009, 03:35 AM
No, it doesn't hurt my eyes, so, it can't hurt "our" eyes...

Actually, what you write here, is what I find most annoying at most of the posts Nate refers at. Because you don't like it, or your eyes start to hurt, it doesn't mean everybody shouldn't like it and everybody's eyes will hurt.

It already makes a great difference if you say:

I don't like LCD because the backlight makes my eyes hurt

instead of:

LCD isn't good for reading because it'll make your eyes hurt.

Beside, this is the home for e-reader devices, be they e-ink, LCD or any other screen.

I'm 20, routinely spend more than 10 hours a day in front of a computer, and have better than 20/20 vision.

only when I read on a backlight, on a small device like a 7" EEEPC for an extended period of time do I notice any eyestrain issues. I think it has something to do with the distance an average book is held from the eye, in addition to the backlight. and the relative small size that it dotesn't take up the full field of view. it creates an effect which causes blurry vision in people by making it hard to focus.

also a backlight leads to reading in a room not bright enough for reading. which exacerbates the problem even further

if it has an effect on my eyesight like that. I am comfortable in saying that it would effect almost everyone elses eyesight like that

I'm glad if it doesn't effect your eyesight, but, as someone who has better than average eyesight, and is used to the effects of many hours in front of a computer or watching my 220 watt 42 inch tv in a dark room without eye "burn" and I remember how bad that can be. the Focusing issue is one that I think anyone can have, as its impossible to get used to it.

I read on my PSP/EEE/cell for nearly 9 months for 3+ hours a day before my first Eink device. and there is a world of difference. if anyone reads in a similar manner on a backlight small device. I believe that they would be affected too.

that said. a Jet book is a very capable device and have no qualms about it and that's an LCD.

(note: I tried to get the right affects and effects right. its never something I really learned, but I want to, tell me if I mixed any up here.. the reason I never learned is the same reason I cant really tell a Noun from a Verb from an Adverb, I Have a natural cadence, and rythmn, and I can just think proper English... which leads to lots of phonetic errors, Like Affect and Effect, as well as I wrote matter instead of manner, because I write phonetically. so for many years, Affect and Effect were filed away in my brain as the same word. with many meanings. I'm trying to split them. but I still don't really know the difference)

Sweetpea
06-15-2009, 05:06 AM
I'm 20, routinely spend more than 10 hours a day in front of a computer, and have better than 20/20 vision.

only when I read on a backlight, on a small device like a 7" EEEPC for an extended period of time do I notice any eyestrain issues.

Ah, but there is the difference: here you say You have problems with it. Earlier, you said that it hurts "our" eyes. Which implies mine too.

What I'm trying to say: I couldn't care less if you preferred e-ink over LCD (backlit or not). But, saying something a device is not meant for e-reading because it has a LCD screen is not a founded argument. It only means it's not the best device for all people, as some people may get eye troubles.

And I'm 30+, routinely spend more than 10 hours a day in front of a computer (both LCD screen and CRT screen) and have a less than 20/20 vision (don't need glasses, yet, so it's not too bad, yet...)
I must say, I don't like reading from my HTC phone (horrible screen, only installed Mobipocket on it to see how it went :p). It's way too bright and glossy (even with a screenprotector in place). But I never have problems reading from my PDA screen (and I use a very small font-size, the smallest available actually!)

HarryT
06-15-2009, 09:30 AM
I read for 20-odd years on PDAs on various descriptions. I make no secret of the fact that I personally prefer eInk, but I'm certainly not going to "condemn" anyone who feels otherwise - it's their choice, and we all have personal preferences.

JSWolf
06-15-2009, 10:25 AM
*bump*

I decided to dig up this thread again becuase right now I'm currently seeing the anti-LCD bias here on MobileRead.

It's rather interesting that the bias seems to be one way. You don't see LCD supporters going to threads about a particular Eink reader and saying:
The problem (at present) with LCD is the batter life of most LCD devices. When used as an eBook reader, they don't get enough battery life. And to be a good reader, the LCD has to be able to be viewed in bright sunlight. As for eye strain, I don't have any eye strain looking at our LCD TVs, LCD computer monitors, or my wife's iPod Touch. So that is a non-issue for me. My wife doesn't have that problem as well.

Is there an LCD device that is being used as a reader that can be well viewed in full sunlight that has a 6" or larger screen?

Nate the great
06-15-2009, 10:53 AM
The problem (at present) with LCD is the batter life of most LCD devices. When used as an eBook reader, they don't get enough battery life. And to be a good reader, the LCD has to be able to be viewed in bright sunlight. As for eye strain, I don't have any eye strain looking at our LCD TVs, LCD computer monitors, or my wife's iPod Touch. So that is a non-issue for me. My wife doesn't have that problem as well.

Is there an LCD device that is being used as a reader that can be well viewed in full sunlight that has a 6" or larger screen?

I think that's a red herring argument. How many people actually use their ebook reader in full sunlight? I don't. Instead, I sit in the shade and read. And my Airpanel 100 is quite usable for that.

daffy4u
06-15-2009, 11:01 AM
I think that's a red herring argument. How many people actually use their ebook reader in full sunlight? I don't. Instead, I sit in the shade and read. And my Airpanel 100 is quite usable for that.

I do. :) I also use my laptops outside with a Hoodman (http://hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1019).

Jellby
06-15-2009, 11:02 AM
I think that's a red herring argument. How many people actually use their ebook reader in full sunlight?

I do that sometimes. Not everyday and certainly never in summer (but even the shade in summer can be very bright, su much that normal LCDs are almost unusable).

tompe
06-15-2009, 11:22 AM
I think that's a red herring argument. How many people actually use their ebook reader in full sunlight? I don't. Instead, I sit in the shade and read. And my Airpanel 100 is quite usable for that.

If you read while traveling you do it all the time in cars, or on buses, or on trains.

Andybaby
06-15-2009, 11:24 AM
I read outside as much as possible. nothing better actually. my favorite way to read.

always wear sunglasses when its sunny. they really help.

in full sun the dark screen of the 700 is a huge bonus, as its bright as hell, but when you compare it to a 505, the 505 is like staring directly into the sun. (which indoors is a good thing)

but always try to read in the shade if you can help it. reading in the sun can hurt your eyes if your not careful. especially if you hit a glare point in the reader.

Nate the great
06-15-2009, 11:24 AM
If you read while traveling you do it all the time in cars, or on buses, or on trains.

Does that qualify as direct sunlight? If so, I regularly use my Airpanel in the car.

tompe
06-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Does that qualify as direct sunlight? If so, I regularly use my Airpanel in the car.

Eh, direct sunligt through a window will at least make my phone screen totally unreadable. And it is very hard to use a laptop in a car in sunny weather. And when traveling you often wait for buses and other think where no shade is available so you have to read in sunlight.

A couple of days ago I had a hard time reading a paper book while waiting for a bus since the paper was to white. I missed my Cybook on that occasion.

netseeker
06-15-2009, 12:50 PM
in full sun the dark screen of the 700 is a huge bonus, as its bright as hell, but when you compare it to a 505, the 505 is like staring directly into the sun. (which indoors is a good thing)
I'm used to read with my PRS-505 in the full sun and in my experience it's not "like staring directly into the sun" - especially when compared to the much more glary screen of the PRS-700. A friend of mine lent me his device over the second last weekend and although it was slightly cloudy it wasn't fun to read with it on the balcony. I never had such problems with the PRS-505... :blink:

JSWolf
06-15-2009, 12:56 PM
I think that's a red herring argument. How many people actually use their ebook reader in full sunlight? I don't. Instead, I sit in the shade and read. And my Airpanel 100 is quite usable for that.
For me it is not a red herring. I do use my 505 outside in bright sunlight. If a device does not work well in full sunlight, it won't work for me as a reader. In fact, I'll be using my 505 in the sun this weekend. So what LCD based (6" or better screen) reading device is good to use in direct sunlight?

Lemurion
06-15-2009, 02:31 PM
I've been reading eBooks for years; mostly on LCD. I now have a Sony Reader and yes I am biased. I like EInk better. It's easier for me to read, and I can read it outside much more easily than any LCD device I have used.

I'm not going to say LCD is useless, but it doesn't meet MY needs as well.

Sweetpea
06-15-2009, 02:52 PM
I think that's a red herring argument. How many people actually use their ebook reader in full sunlight? I don't. Instead, I sit in the shade and read. And my Airpanel 100 is quite usable for that.

I actually read books in direct sunlight... Not during the heat of the day, but mostly at the start or the end of a day. And the hammock is underneat a tree without a perfect cover. So, sunlight will filter through as well. I don't have any problems reading then. Ok, my device is only 3.4", not 6, but it is LCD (so, according to a lot of people I shouldn't be able to read in direct sunlight...)

That Jointech JE100 should have a transflective screen (according to the specs). But we'll see about that...

rgeorg
06-15-2009, 02:57 PM
Ah, but there is the difference: here you say You have problems with it. Earlier, you said that it hurts "our" eyes. Which implies mine too.

What I'm trying to say: I couldn't care less if you preferred e-ink over LCD (backlit or not). But, saying something a device is not meant for e-reading because it has a LCD screen is not a founded argument. It only means it's not the best device for all people, as some people may get eye troubles.


Reading in bright sunlight gives me a major headache. I'd never do it even with paper-books or magazines (I listen to audiobooks instead in that situation). I suppose I tend towards the comment by Sweatpea, that taking a specific opinion or even an isolated fact, and then extrapolating it to "everyone" or "in all cases" is what I tend to see when people discuss LCDs in this forum - and not much of it for eink. For example, I could say that because of the slow refresh rate of eink and the page-flashing, that any and all current eink devices are "just not ready for prime time yet." However, I have read that many people do not have problems with this, so it is my opinion and I generally do not express it, or at least try not to condemn all eink devices on that basis.

Perhaps, when people spend apx 300$ on a single-purpose device, and someone calls "their baby ugly" it raises the fighting spirit (if only to defend ones purchasing integrity:p)?

I don't think this is a big deal though. Intelligent people can see through any bias and find out the actual facts in the forum, and most posters seem to try to be even-handed. You quickly learn which posters fall into which type of group.

JSWolf
06-15-2009, 03:15 PM
I'm not saying I don't like LCD. But nobody has yet been able to answer my question. Is there a 6" or larger LCD reader that works well in direct sunlight? LCD has to work in direct sunlight or it's a no go.

Nate the great
06-15-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm not saying I don't like LCD. But nobody has yet been able to answer my question. Is there a 6" or larger LCD reader that works well in direct sunlight? LCD has to work in direct sunlight or it's a no go.

Thank you for providing a second example in this thread of how not to post.

Just becuase it's a no go for you doesn't mean you should say it's a no go for everyone.

Andybaby
06-15-2009, 05:47 PM
Thank you for providing a second example in this thread of how not to post.

Just becuase it's a no go for you doesn't mean you should say it's a no go for everyone.

Then Lets Define what makes a Dedicated Reading device, and dont forget, alot of people don't Need a dedicated reading device. only people who read more than, 1 book a week. or more than 40 books a year need a dedicated reading device.

Almost everyone says, It must have good battery life. I define that is 16 hours of use or more before requiring a charge.

Is Light, It shouldn't weigh more than a LB, Preferably alot Less.

It should be able to be read anywhere a book can be read, as it's a book Emulator. so this is the gambit from a dim room to sun.

As for Multi function Devices. a PSP or an Ipod Touch/Iphone make excellent Ebook Readers. as well as larger things, Like Tablets, they are finally making cheap ones thanks to Netbooks. Or Netbooks.

there are 3 categories people fall into.

The part time reader.. They need something Functional. ussually multi function device, just enough to lick their habit. I wouldnt suggest someone here buy anything more expencive than 200 bucks so Jetbook or Used PRS. if not an Iphone or Similar, Maybe even a Netbook.

The Full Time reader. They want Something that they can read comfortably on where ever they are, have long battery life, and be able to carry it around. these are our early adopters of eink who own kindles and sonys, and bebooks and astaks. for these people I ussually recommend the kindle due to their ebook store.

and the PDF reader. These are the people who want huge screens, and portability be damned!(to an extent, they want something lighter than a laptop ussually). these are the people who didn't feed their children for a month to buy their Irex device, or a Newly crowned DX owner. but I also would suggest a laptop/tablet for these people as well.

Find where you fall and the screen doesn't really matter.

Nate the great
06-15-2009, 06:46 PM
Why make all those categories? Wouldn't it be easier if everyone simply stopped saying things like "this won't work" and instead say "this won't work for me"? That way the categories are self identifying.

Andybaby
06-15-2009, 07:13 PM
Why make all those categories? Wouldn't it be easier if everyone simply stopped saying things like "this won't work" and instead say "this won't work for me"? That way the categories are self identifying.

no :)

we are all sheep, and we must be put in our pens correctly!

Nate the great
06-15-2009, 09:28 PM
Thank you for providing a second example in this thread of how not to post.

Just becuase it's a no go for you doesn't mean you should say it's a no go for everyone.

Jon, I apologize for my snide remarks. I did understand what you meant.

Blanket pronouncements bother me. I wish more people would write their opinions in the form of opinions, not as absolutes.

jgray
06-15-2009, 11:50 PM
I'm not saying I don't like LCD. But nobody has yet been able to answer my question. Is there a 6" or larger LCD reader that works well in direct sunlight? LCD has to work in direct sunlight or it's a no go.

I am curious as to why you insist that the screen has to be 6" or larger. You know very well that the jetBook has a 5" screen and is very readable in direct sunlight. This has been talked about already in other threads where you have asked about the jetBook screen.

I certainly can't read your mind, but from the sum total of your postings about the jetBook and Ectaco, you come across as very biased against a device that you don't own and have probably never seen.

DaleDe
06-16-2009, 12:22 AM
Is there an LCD device that is being used as a reader that can be well viewed in full sunlight that has a 6" or larger screen?

The X0 laptop from OLPC reads very well in sunlight using the monochrome high resolution mode that does not use a backlight. It has a 7.5" screen I believe.

Dale

Sweetpea
06-16-2009, 02:26 AM
I'm not saying I don't like LCD. But nobody has yet been able to answer my question. Is there a 6" or larger LCD reader that works well in direct sunlight? LCD has to work in direct sunlight or it's a no go.

Please reread my post then, it's slightly above yours.

The Full Time reader. They want Something that they can read comfortably on where ever they are, have long battery life, and be able to carry it around. these are our early adopters of eink who own kindles and sonys, and bebooks and astaks. for these people I ussually recommend the kindle due to their ebook store.

I am a full time reader. I have not a device with a long battery life, but I can carry it around and I don't have e-ink. So, where would you put me? That won't stop me from admitting I'd love an e-ink device, but then, I am some kind of gadget freak :D (only my wallet stops me from being a full-time gadget freak...)

(and I usually have a cap on when I'm outside, so the sun won't blind my eyes, but my reader can still be in bright sunlight).

kacir
06-16-2009, 03:34 AM
I have been reading books from LCD screens for 5 years before I moved to e-ink.
For the last three years (almost) I have been reading on an older generation of e-ink, on Sony reader PRS-500
So when I compare backlit with non-backlit and with e-ink screen I know what I am talking about.
I *PERSONALLY* prefer reading on e-ink at the moment.

I would like to be able to compare Jetbook with the newest generation of e-ink with Epson controller.

wodin
06-16-2009, 04:09 AM
Changed my mind, never mind!

rgeorg
06-16-2009, 12:55 PM
I would like to be able to compare Jetbook with the newest generation of e-ink with Epson controller.

So would I, actually I'd like to also compare the current eink with the future Epson-controlled eink devices. But I'll probably not spend the money to do so.

MaggieScratch
06-16-2009, 04:33 PM
There are things I miss about reading ebooks on my Treo, namely being able to take notes. (Though the Kindle allows that, I think, but there are other reasons I decided to not get a Kindle.) But my eyes are sensitive to light. I have problems with glare while driving at night. My eye doctor tells me there is nothing wrong with my eyes; they are just over-sensitive to light. I can read on a backlit device for a little while, but eventually everything goes black and swimmy. I can read for hours and hours and hours on an eInk device and never feel a bit of fatigue.

I still read book occasionally on my Treo, and hope to soon on my Pre (I'm waiting for eReader), but it will only be an emergency backup sort of thing. Until we get technology that mimics the good things for me about eInk, I'll stick with eInk.

Kris777
06-17-2009, 12:38 AM
There are people that say LCD = bad, e-ink = good and nothing in between.

I agree with DaleDe that LCD are different.
For examples I had eBookman (LCD screen) and I have jetBook (TFT screen) now so I can confirm that these screens have different quality and looks very different. You can compare the quality of TFT screen with E-ink but you can't compare LCD with TFT...
I have PC with 17 inch screen, Toshiba notebook (15"), Samsung netbook (10"), iPod touch and jetBook and I CAN'T read books on PC, laptop, netbook, and iPod because my eyes tired after 10 minutes of reading but I spend several hours for non-stop reading on jetBook TFT screen and have no any problems with eyes.

I also started this topic (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45593) about jetBook TFT screen to educate people about TFT screen and explain the difference between regular LCD and TFT.

phenomshel
06-17-2009, 09:39 AM
For me it was portability rather than technology. I don't mind reading on my computer screen, and the vast majority of time doing it doesn't bother my eyes, the only problem with it was that I wanted something portable I could take to bed, or out on the couch. I've found myself wishing more than once that my EZ Reader either had a built in light or was backlit, as the ambient light in my house for some reason stays pretty dim. Also I find reading at night in bed, I have to lay on my side facing the light to get enough light on the display to read by - if I turn over, I can't see the screen well. I don't read outside very often, so that's really not a concern for me. Don't get me wrong, I love my EZ Reader to pieces, but I don't think I'd love it any less if it had a backlit LCD screen.

All that long winded explanation was to say: There may be a bias on MR about LCD screens, but I'm not a participant in it.

=X=
06-17-2009, 01:54 PM
For me it is not a red herring. I do use my 505 outside in bright sunlight. If a device does not work well in full sunlight, it won't work for me as a reader. In fact, I'll be using my 505 in the sun this weekend. So what LCD based (6" or better screen) reading device is good to use in direct sunlight?

Where there is Pixel Qi screen for the Acer which is a 8" screen laptop. In another demo demo they mentioned they are looking at modifying the existing Acer Aspire One laptop to make it a comfortable eReading device.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7ZErQ5Kl6w&feature=related&pos=0

=X=

Andybaby
06-17-2009, 08:44 PM
Please reread my post then, it's slightly above yours.

I am a full time reader. I have not a device with a long battery life, but I can carry it around and I don't have e-ink. So, where would you put me? That won't stop me from admitting I'd love an e-ink device, but then, I am some kind of gadget freak :D (only my wallet stops me from being a full-time gadget freak...)

(and I usually have a cap on when I'm outside, so the sun won't blind my eyes, but my reader can still be in bright sunlight).

well your Between of course! everyone is in between someone when it comes to personal reading.

I'm also in between, but I'm more towards the Eink end of the spectrum, but I would love to try out a Jetbook, or grap a new Astak 5" when it comes out. I would like a slightly smaller screen. but not smaller than 4 to 5 inches.

JSWolf
06-17-2009, 10:34 PM
I am curious as to why you insist that the screen has to be 6" or larger. You know very well that the jetBook has a 5" screen and is very readable in direct sunlight. This has been talked about already in other threads where you have asked about the jetBook screen.

I certainly can't read your mind, but from the sum total of your postings about the jetBook and Ectaco, you come across as very biased against a device that you don't own and have probably never seen.
The reason I am saying 6" screen is because I don't want anything with a smaller screen. And I know there are eink devices coming out with a 5" screen just so you know it's not a bias against the Jetbook in terms of size.

As for the Jetbook, the problem with it isn't the Jetbook itself, but Etaco. It's the way Etaco seriously misrepresents the Jetbook. They give a comparison of the 500 or 505 (they get things mixed up there big time) and the K1 and get a lot of thing absolutely wrong. And then there is their request a book form on the website that says that can get any book you request for free. Also, there isn't much if any mention of no DRM support on the website. And lastly is for selling the Jetbook in BB&B where a lot of people shop who know nothing of DRM and might see the Jetbook and buy one and then not be able to do much with it because the books they want to read only come with DRM. Etaco needs to clean up it's act and get the facts out to the public in a way that's honest and truthful.

Sweetpea
06-18-2009, 03:21 AM
well your Between of course! everyone is in between someone when it comes to personal reading.

I'm also in between, but I'm more towards the Eink end of the spectrum, but I would love to try out a Jetbook, or grap a new Astak 5" when it comes out. I would like a slightly smaller screen. but not smaller than 4 to 5 inches.

I'll most certainly will grab that 5" BeBook when it finally comes out...

The reason I am saying 6" screen is because I don't want anything with a smaller screen. And I know there are eink devices coming out with a 5" screen just so you know it's not a bias against the Jetbook in terms of size.

But that's no reason to say why people shouldn't buy a 5", just because you don't like smaller screens. 5" in my eyes is huge... I can't even imagine how a 8" or larger looks like (in terms of reading books).

doreenjoy
06-20-2009, 03:10 PM
Why make all those categories? Wouldn't it be easier if everyone simply stopped saying things like "this won't work" and instead say "this won't work for me"? That way the categories are self identifying.

IMO (which stands for In MY Opinion, btw) the "for me" is implied whenever someone posts. We're all sitting alone typing our thoughts. There is no "group think" involved when someone posts. Any bias is easily seen through...again IMO.

astra
06-20-2009, 03:17 PM
IMO (which stands for In MY Opinion, btw) the "for me" is implied whenever someone posts. We're all sitting alone typing our thoughts. There is no "group think" involved when someone posts. Any bias is easily seen through...again IMO.

Finally :thumbsup:

It is fairly obvious, that when we post on a forum, we post our own opinions unless stated otherwise.

maidavale
06-22-2009, 10:45 PM
While I have no problems when people argue/discuss about their preference of technologies used, I can't help but feel that it becomes apples-to-oranges comparison when it comes down to discussions b/w two specific devices.

In terms of functionalities, ergonomics, etc., I just find it annoying when, say, Kindle DX would be compared against a 9" netbook (a tablet one at that, especially in the near future w/ many upcoming tablet netbooks). For me, it seems as one would get them to fulfill different purposes - completing various tasks using a portable PC vs. reading a book on a dedicated reader, enjoying all the ergonomic benefits.

As for me, while I wish a tablet device that uses LCD would serve as an all-encompassing platform where I can do everything (for economic reasons & the high # of pdf documents), I just can't use LCD device for a prolonged time due to ergonomic & portability issues. Of course, this kind of preference must differ b/w each individual. Also, the nature of devices matter... for many, reading on LCD may be fine if they come in the forms of mobile phones and something like TechCrunch's upcoming CrunchPad (not that I like Mike Arrington).

Oh well, I'll sit & wait for Pixel Qi screens.

As for bias/group think issue and all, I think MobileRead is free of such things for the most part, including the whole supposed anti-LCD issue. I hear very good arguments from both sides (which means I'll never decide on that *perfect* device :D). Compared to other places on the Internet, this place is very healthy in many aspects. :) Of course, I'll have to disagree with doreenjoy & astra... in certain communities, you'll get slaughtered for voicing opposing opinions (e.g. speaking against libertarianism/atheism/marijuana legalization in the U.S. on social-bookmarking sites like Reddit, w/ younger audiences; being progressive on a place like... Rush Limbaugh forums; speaking against Zionist conspiracy theories on white supremacist forums; etc.). Yah, the Internet... er, bloody hell.

HansTWN
06-22-2009, 11:41 PM
Yes, we are not talking about racism here! We are talking about users who express their feelings about their experiences with different technologies for their personal needs. If the majority prefers E-Ink then that just means it is more suitable for the needs of heavy readers. I wouldn't call it a bias, I would call it a preference. But since heavy readers are a small minority the convenience of multi-function devices with LCDs and maybe OLEDs will win out in the market place and e-ink will remain a small niche (but hopefully not go away). I like multi-function, I have used my phones for browsing, reading, e-mail, IM, music, videos, document reading and editing for more than 4 years since the days of the Palm Treo and HP PDAs. But for me e-ink devices are most comfortable for my eyes. And the battery lasts and lasts. IMHO it will be a while until multifunction tablets will come close to that functionality.

Sweetpea
06-23-2009, 12:25 AM
Yes, we are not talking about racism here! We are talking about users who express their feelings about their experiences with different technologies for their personal needs. If the majority prefers E-Ink then that just means it is more suitable for the needs of heavy readers. I wouldn't call it a bias, I would call it a preference. But since heavy readers are a small minority the convenience of multi-function devices with LCDs and maybe OLEDs will win out in the market place and e-ink will remain a small niche (but hopefully not go away). I like multi-function, I have used my phones for browsing, reading, e-mail, IM, music, videos, document reading and editing for more than 4 years since the days of the Palm Treo and HP PDAs. But for me e-ink devices are most comfortable for my eyes. And the battery lasts and lasts. IMHO it will be a while until multifunction tablets will come close to that functionality.

When the prices of e-ink devices drop (as they must!), more people will get both. An e-ink device for dedicated reading and a LCD/OLED/PixelQ device for general useage which can also be used for reading.

I will get an e-ink device for dedicated reading this summer, but I most certainly will continue reading on my PDA (until I replace it with another backlit screen).

Nate the great
06-23-2009, 09:19 AM
There is an aphorism that applies here:

If you say something enough times, it doesn't matter whether it's true; it _becomes_ the truth.

I've read here on MR any number of statements about the many reasons why it is impossible to read on LCDs. This was on its way to becoming an accepted truth here on MR (if it hasn't happened already).

This might not bother you, but it concerns me.

JSWolf
06-23-2009, 09:27 AM
But that's no reason to say why people shouldn't buy a 5", just because you don't like smaller screens. 5" in my eyes is huge... I can't even imagine how a 8" or larger looks like (in terms of reading books).
I didn't say a 5" screen is not ok for others. But for me, after having my 500 nd then 505 (both 6"), I don't want a reader with a smaller screen. In fact, I may someday want a reader with a larger screen. But for now, I'll stick with a 6" screen. So for me, no matter how good or not the Jetbook is, it doesn't count (IMHO) because the screen is too small for me. Now if we have an LCD reader that has a 6" or larger screen, good battery life (24 hours or more) and can be viewed well in full sunlight, I would take a look.

JSWolf
06-23-2009, 09:32 AM
There is an aphorism that applies here:

If you say something enough times, it doesn't matter whether it's true; it _becomes_ the truth.

I've read here on MR any number of statements about the many reasons why it is impossible to read on LCDs. This was on its way to becoming an accepted truth here on MR (if it hasn't happened already).

This might not bother you, but it concerns me.
It's not impossible to read on an LCD screen. I do it all the time. And before I got my 500, I used to read on my computer LCD monitor and a fairly old laptop LCD screen. And we have two LCD TVs as well. I have no eye strain at all. I have no idea where the idea that LCD causes eyestrain comes from. If LCD was that bad, then computer monitors would still be CRTs and so would TVs.

netseeker
06-23-2009, 02:41 PM
I have no idea where the idea that LCD causes eyestrain comes from. If LCD was that bad, then computer monitors would still be CRTs and so would TVs.
Nobody said that CRTs would be better than LCDs. :blink: But if you have to use LCDs the whole day and you have sensitive eyes than it *can* cause eyestrain. (I know it because it happens to me every now and then)

ahi
06-24-2009, 02:45 PM
I have no idea where the idea that LCD causes eyestrain comes from. If LCD was that bad, then computer monitors would still be CRTs and so would TVs.

My guess is, the idea comes from the fact that human eyes are overwhelmingly used for looking at objects that do not emit light, and therefore extended viewing of light-emitting objects, particularly at a close distance, would strain it above and beyond "normal use".

The degree to which this is the case from person to person may be debatable... I don't see how the "whether or not" of it can be.

Though I certainly agree with you that LCDs are certainly better, not worse, than CRTs. Not in the same class as non-light-emitting surfaces like eInk screens though.

- Ahi

rgeorg
06-24-2009, 04:16 PM
For me it is not a red herring. I do use my 505 outside in bright sunlight. If a device does not work well in full sunlight, it won't work for me as a reader. In fact, I'll be using my 505 in the sun this weekend.
--
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10256
post #13 (6-6-2007)

I just had my reader in the sunlight and it starts to fade very quickly. Have a look at the attached photo to see what I mean. Anyway, is there something that can be done about this?


I was just reading a revived-2007 thread about eink fading out in direct sunlight(see link above). Is this still a problem? Seems a K2 still has a similar problem and aren't the screens the same? I thought one of the big selling points for eink is the ability to read in direct sunlight?

demoric
06-25-2009, 09:55 AM
I found on my Kindle 2 that during direct noon-day sunlight in 100 degree+ temperature there was an ink fading issue between screen refreshes. I also found that when I went to a different font that the fading issue was minimized to nearly non-existent. For me this is a small extreme use issue and I don't normally read in full direct sunlight (I prefer a slightly shaded area). Also worth mentioning I didn't have this issue during more temperate times of the day.

On the topic of LCD vs. E-Ink. I used to read on my Jornada 525 PDA, but could never even think of reading outside even in the shade as the LCD screen was too poor to show in sunlight.

Honestly though I am looking forward to seeing some of the new technology from http://www.pixelqi.com/ if they can produce a LCD screen that has color, is easy to see in sunlight and has reasonable battery consumption that would be my silver bullet screen type.

netseeker
06-25-2009, 12:52 PM
I was just reading a revived-2007 thread about eink fading out in direct sunlight(see link above). Is this still a problem? Seems a K2 still has a similar problem and aren't the screens the same? I thought one of the big selling points for eink is the ability to read in direct sunlight?
I know that some users of the PRS-505 have similiar problems. Anyway i can read in direct sunlight without any problems - even on the beach. I guess that only some screens have that problem with fading out in direct sunlight. But it might also be that i just had more luck than others...

DaleDe
06-25-2009, 02:13 PM
I found on my Kindle 2 that during direct noon-day sunlight in 100 degree+ temperature there was an ink fading issue between screen refreshes. I also found that when I went to a different font that the fading issue was minimized to nearly non-existent. For me this is a small extreme use issue and I don't normally read in full direct sunlight (I prefer a slightly shaded area). Also worth mentioning I didn't have this issue during more temperate times of the day.



the manufacturer quotes temperature range for proper operation and if you exceed this range you can expect problems at both ends of the extreme. It has nothing to do with sunlight per se.

Dale

JSWolf
06-29-2009, 02:25 PM
When it gets cold, my 505's screen becomes sluggish. I did have a 500 that had the 1st gen eink screen and it did have fading issues in sunlight. My 505 used Visplex and no problem in direct sunlight.

doreenjoy
06-29-2009, 02:43 PM
I can't read an LCD in bright light, either.

Steven Lyle Jordan
06-29-2009, 02:54 PM
When the prices of e-ink devices drop (as they must!), more people will get both. An e-ink device for dedicated reading and a LCD/OLED/PixelQ device for general useage which can also be used for reading.

Or... not. There are still plenty of people out there who don't see the need for two devices that do the same thing, and so will bypass dedicated readers in favor of all-in-one devices.

Of course, display tech will likely improve with e-ink (color) and LCD (power), making both of them more versatile, and allowing people to choose one or the other for the same tasks, as they prefer... which is as it should be. And we may still see a new display tech come along and blow both of them out of the water, so what difference does it make in the long run?

I will say that I've never felt belittled for my choice of device (PDA). People 'round these parts can find plenty of other things to pick on me about, that they can afford to ignore that one... ;)

Steven Lyle Jordan
06-29-2009, 02:56 PM
There is an aphorism that applies here:

If you say something enough times, it doesn't matter whether it's true; it _becomes_ the truth.

I've read here on MR any number of statements about the many reasons why it is impossible to read on LCDs. This was on its way to becoming an accepted truth here on MR (if it hasn't happened already).

This might not bother you, but it concerns me.

Generally, for every instance where someone claims it's impossible to read on LCDs, someone else steps right up and says "au contraire, mes amis."

(Don't worry, Nate, we got your back.)

demoric
07-03-2009, 10:43 AM
the manufacturer quotes temperature range for proper operation and if you exceed this range you can expect problems at both ends of the extreme. It has nothing to do with sunlight per se.

Dale

Yeah it was extreme usage like I had mentioned. It probably is temperature related because it was 100 degrees Fahrenheit and in direct sunlight. Also, I dredged up an operations temperatures thread http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31585 .

Stensie4JC
07-09-2009, 01:34 AM
I have wondered this myself. I hear again and again the eink is easier on the eyes and better in bright sunlight. I've never had eye problems reading on LCD, and I very rarely read in bright sunlight. When I decided to buy an ereader I looked for an LCD device but there are just not that many out there. I think that's why there seems to be a bias. I believe the Sony with the touch screen also is backlit, but the resolution is poorer and it bothered me.

mtravellerh
07-14-2009, 02:27 AM
I have wondered this myself. I hear again and again the eink is easier on the eyes and better in bright sunlight. I've never had eye problems reading on LCD, and I very rarely read in bright sunlight. When I decided to buy an ereader I looked for an LCD device but there are just not that many out there. I think that's why there seems to be a bias. I believe the Sony with the touch screen also is backlit, but the resolution is poorer and it bothered me.

The Sony 700 is not really backlit. Actually, there are LEDs mounted between the proper screen and the display.

I never had problems reading on my iPhone outside, btw! Reading in plain sunlight is not good for your health, anyway!

Stensie4JC
07-14-2009, 01:52 PM
Good to know that about the 700. My husband has an iPhone and I couldn't stand to have one myself. I agree about reading in the sun, I love to read, but if I'm going to be out in the sun I am usually doing something sunny.

HarryT
07-19-2009, 08:32 AM
I believe the Sony with the touch screen also is backlit, but the resolution is poorer and it bothered me.

eInk screens are opaque, and hence cannot be backlit. The Sony PRS-700 has side-lighting for reading at night. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "the resolution is poorer". The resolution of what is poorer than what?

Stensie4JC
07-21-2009, 02:54 PM
"Resolution" is probably the wrong word. Looking at the Sony that had the side-lighting, I felt like the type was not as crisp the other model. It would have driven me nuts.

Lemurion
07-21-2009, 03:45 PM
"Resolution" is probably the wrong word. Looking at the Sony that had the side-lighting, I felt like the type was not as crisp the other model. It would have driven me nuts.

It's the touchscreen. There's a layer over the eink screen itself that provides the touch functionality. Unfortunately the display loses a lot of crispness because of it.

It's one reason I bought the 505.

voidIndigo
07-21-2009, 06:10 PM
Nobody said that CRTs would be better than LCDs. :blink: But if you have to use LCDs the whole day and you have sensitive eyes than it *can* cause eyestrain. (I know it because it happens to me every now and then)

I read somewhere that when people use computers, they tend to blink a lot less, which dries the eyes' surface (I don't know how to translate "córnea") and causes irritation, like sand in the eye.

This used to happen to me quite a lot (I work all day in front of 2 screens, and LOVE to play games at home), but then I learned to pause every now and then, blink a lot, stare in the distance, etc. and never had a problem anymore.

About the LCD-eInk discussion, having one of each type, I must say that I use both in very distinc situations: my PRS-505 during the day, mostly because it's light and handy, and the REB 1200 at night (in bed, the backlight is a must have!) or when color is desirable (magazines, graphics, photos, comics).

But IMHO, the eInk IS the future. I don't see an LCD device coming close to the autonomy of an eInk.

What I would like was a color eInk reader! Shipped worldwide! At affordable prices! Wi-fi wouldn't hurt. And note-taking. Handwriting recognition. Multi-dictionary support. And that burned fat. (Now, THAT would be a feature!!:D)

Damn! I want one of those Star Trek (TNG) thingies!

Stensie4JC
07-23-2009, 03:22 PM
I don't know how to translate "córnea"

And that burned fat. (Now, THAT would be a feature!!:D)


I am pretty sure co'rnea (sorry, don't know how to do special characters) translated is cornea. I've never studied Portuguese, but this happens all the time between Spanish and English, and I hate looking up a word in Spanish just to find out it's basically the same as the English.

And yes, I am all about the fat-burning feature!

Hellmark
07-24-2009, 12:23 AM
I read somewhere that when people use computers, they tend to blink a lot less, which dries the eyes' surface (I don't know how to translate "córnea") and causes irritation, like sand in the eye.


Just so you know "córnea" is "cornea". Both languages shamelessly steal the word, as well as many other medical terms, from latin.

For me, I know when reading on my N800, unless I look away a lot (like if I am reading while at work), I start having trouble focusing until I give my eyes a rest for a bit. I am under the understanding (based on my brother the med student), that this is due to the backlighting. Usually people don't stare at light sources.

doreenjoy
07-24-2009, 01:05 AM
Staring at light sources gives me migraines. No LCDs for me (I even have to limit my computer time, and the LCD is turned down very low)

LDBoblo
07-25-2009, 05:24 PM
I generally disdain staring at backlit screens when their light output is incongruous to the surrounding environment. A bright backlight that improves apparent contrast and color saturation often far exceeds what ambient light would otherwise dictate.

However, if the backlight is handled well, I don't find it particularly uncomfortable.

I got an e-ink device for a few reasons:
a) on my EEE PC, I find myself easily drawn to other tasks like email or productivity things. With a dedicated book reader, I can envelop myself more in the reading.

b) EEE PC is too slow to boot up. I have gotten it pretty optimized, but from startup through login is usually 15 seconds. Then I need to navigate to my requisite files or software. My Sony is in standby most of the time with pretty instant switch on, right back to the book I was in. Battery life on my EEE can't guarantee that if I'm reading it periodically over a few days.

c) EEE PC is not really good for ebook interfacing and reading in portrait orientation. It's a bit bulky and navigation isn't wonderful when the book is turned to portrait.

However, I am pretty dissatisfied with e-ink as well, since the text quality is pretty poor overall (in bright conditions, it looks like someone printed on toilet paper with an ink jet printer...feathered edges with poor contrast. I have been looking at UMPC tablets and such that would give me a much better reading experience, with better quality displays. Perhaps not as good as print, but not as pathetic as e-ink.

Pixel Qi looks promising, if a bit low in contrast. It would be interesting to see up close how text shows. If clarity can be had over that of e-ink, I'd abandon the Sony in a heartbeat I think, despite the other inconveniences.

carld
07-25-2009, 05:31 PM
Pixel Qi looks promising, if a bit low in contrast. It would be interesting to see up close how text shows. If clarity can be had over that of e-ink, I'd abandon the Sony in a heartbeat I think, despite the other inconveniences.

I haven't seen the new Pixel Qi screens up close yet, but I have seen side-by-side comparisons between the older OLPC system and e-ink readers, and I thought the XO (I think it's called) had a clearer display.

Sweetpea
07-26-2009, 01:39 AM
I generally disdain staring at backlit screens when their light output is incongruous to the surrounding environment. A bright backlight that improves apparent contrast and color saturation often far exceeds what ambient light would otherwise dictate.

However, if the backlight is handled well, I don't find it particularly uncomfortable.

Yep, the same here. When I read at night, the backlight of either of my devices is turned down to the minimum. I rather like my JE100 for that more than my PDA. The backlight can be turned lower than on my PDA. I yesterday got the remark from my husband who thought I was just laying in bed, reader in hand, without any lights on (neither the bed light, nor the backlight). While I was reading with the backlight turned on ;)

Abelturd
11-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Recently I bought a htc hero phone with capacitive touch screen and I've noticed that reading on it puts markedly less strain on my eyes than reading on ipaq 214 with a resistive touch screen. Has anyone else noticed the difference between capacitive and resistive touchscreens, or is it just me fooling myself and transposing my momentary liking for my new toy into this? Thanks.

Sweetpea
11-26-2009, 02:10 PM
Recently I bought a htc hero phone with capacitive touch screen and I've noticed that reading on it puts markedly less strain on my eyes than reading on ipaq 214 with a resistive touch screen. Has anyone else noticed the difference between capacitive and resistive touchscreens, or is it just me fooling myself and transposing my momentary liking for my new toy into this? Thanks.

As I've absolutely no idea what's the difference between them, I can't comment on it. But what's the resolution on your HTC and on your Ipaq? I notice less strain on my 3.4" Loox 720, with a 640x480 resolution than on my 3.4" Loox 600, with a 320x240 resolution...

Abelturd
11-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Ipaq's res is 640x480, hero's is 480x320, hero's screen is smaller though, so the pixel per inch ratios are not that far off. Resistive touchscreens have more layers than capacitive, perhaps this could explain the lesser strain on eyes.
But I'm more interested if someone else subjectively perceives the capacitive touchscreen to be less eye-straining in comparison with the resistive one when it comes to reading.

HansTWN
11-27-2009, 01:32 AM
Ipaq's res is 640x480, hero's is 480x320, hero's screen is smaller though, so the pixel per inch ratios are not that far off. Resistive touchscreens have more layers than capacitive, perhaps this could explain the lesser strain on eyes.
But I'm more interested if someone else subjectively perceives the capacitive touchscreen to be less eye-straining in comparison with the resistive one when it comes to reading.

I have both an Iphone 3G and a Touch Pro2 (800x480). Both are just bearable for reading when I read white text on a black background. No difference for me, just backups for when I don't have my reader with me.

Sweetpea
11-27-2009, 05:34 AM
Ipaq's res is 640x480, hero's is 480x320, hero's screen is smaller though, so the pixel per inch ratios are not that far off. Resistive touchscreens have more layers than capacitive, perhaps this could explain the lesser strain on eyes.
But I'm more interested if someone else subjectively perceives the capacitive touchscreen to be less eye-straining in comparison with the resistive one when it comes to reading.

I've no idea what system my devices use...

Highroller
03-21-2010, 10:28 PM
Ok one more try here. Not all lcd ereaders have backlit screens. Have ANY of you tried the reflective TFT lcd screens. The stronger the light the easier they are to read at least for me. Hence they work GREAT in sunlight for me. Now I have VERY little experience with e-ink readers. That said, most people that like e-ink seem to use a variation of the following statement, "e-ink is almost as easy to read as a real paper book" I have a jetbook lite that has a tft reflective screen. For me it is EASIER to read in bed using a bedside lamp and causes less eyestrain than reading a paper book under same conditions. So assuming the e-ink devices ARE as easy on the eyes as a real book then for me I deduce my jetbook lite is better than an e-ink for me. For backlit lcd devices I agree they do seem to add to eyestrain. However the key thing in this lcd vs e-ink for me is how well an e-ink compares to a modern lcd that is NOT backlit. (by modern I am talking resolution) For me the only advantage e-ink has over a reflective lcd is battery life. I get some 23 hours between battery changes on my lcd device. I am quite happy with that.

DoctorOhh
03-22-2010, 04:29 AM
Ok one more try here. Not all lcd ereaders have backlit screens.

...~~~ yada yada yada ~~~...

I am quite happy with that.

This was covered in this thread over a year ago! I'm glad you're happy with your Jetbook and I agree with your statements but :stop::deadhorse: and let this thread be.

Start a new thread if you like but stop digging up the dead.

Because the dates at the beginning of this thread were March 15/16 I thought this was a new thread, but aren't I foolish to be following someone else into the swamp of days past.

Since I can't delete this post at least I can make it relevant.

kacir
03-22-2010, 07:20 AM
Have ANY of you tried the reflective TFT lcd screens.
...
So assuming the e-ink devices ARE as easy on the eyes as a real book then for me I deduce my jetbook lite is better than an e-ink for me.
Have YOU actually seen an e-ink display in person?
Have YOU compared your Jetbook to an e-ink device side to side?
I feel I can see a very strong, unwarranted pro-reflective-TFT-LCD/anti-Eink bias in your post ;-)

:deadhorse:

DoctorOhh
03-22-2010, 08:15 AM
I feel I can see a very strong, unwarranted pro-reflective-TFT-LCD/anti-Eink bias in your post ;-)

:deadhorse:


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Lemurion
03-22-2010, 08:55 AM
I read on both: I have a Sony 505 and now a Droid. The Sony is much easier to read for long periods of time, but the Droid is more flexible and always with me (the screen's smaller but the much higher DPI makes it usable).

I think people need to understand it's not a one size fits all situation. Different devices fill different needs for different people.

I have both, I use both. They each have benefits.

Highroller
03-22-2010, 01:15 PM
Have YOU actually seen an e-ink display in person?
Have YOU compared your Jetbook to an e-ink device side to side?
I feel I can see a very strong, unwarranted pro-reflective-TFT-LCD/anti-Eink bias in your post ;-)

:deadhorse:

Sigh. I already said I have very little experience with e-ink. What little direct experience I had of e-ink supported the generalized saying of it being "as good as a paper book".

What I DID say I had compared side by side was a paper book and reflective lcd. And I went on to say many people seem to say e-ink is almost as good/as good as reading a paper book when it comes to eyestrain.

What I have is strong bias against people that use statements that I know to be false such as the "fact" you cant read lcd in sunlight and the "fact" that lcd causes more eyestrain than e-ink. ie no qualifiers.

So in answer, no I haven't compared e-ink and reflective lcd side by side I compared them both to a paper book and drew a conclusion that applied to me.

Now, have you compared them side by side?
If so, what were your results?
Have you compared them both to paper books?

Unless an e-ink devices causes me considerably less eyestrain than a paper book does, for ME its not as good as reflective lcd. Because the reflective lcd DOES cause me a good bit less eyestrain than a paper book. I haven't seen anyone that stated e-ink was that much better than a paper book when it comes to eyestrain. Not saying its not possible for some people.

As for the age of this thread, to me its still valid. I haven't seen any substantial changes in reflective lcds or e-ink devices in the last year.

The crux of the e-ink supporters liking seems to be that it doesn't shine light in their eyes ie no backlite. Which is why I only compared reflective lcd to e-ink and agreed back lit lcds tend to cause more eyestrain.


So yes I have a bias but its not against e-ink its against the all encompassing claims made by certain e-ink supporters. Thankfully not as much of that here as on certain blogs.

kacir
03-22-2010, 02:40 PM
What I have is strong bias against people that use statements that I know to be false such as the "fact" you cant read lcd in sunlight and the "fact" that lcd causes more eyestrain than e-ink. ie no qualifiers.
I am afraid that there are many, many people that do not realize that there are non-backlit LCD displays. Lots of people can not understand that displays they see on calculators, old mobile phones, cheap digital watches and old palm organizers are too LCD, just different than their new TV or flat monitor. So when you hear that lcd can not be read pn direct sunlight you can see that that person does not understand what an LCD display is.

My calculator, my old digital watch and also my previous book reading device - Cassiopeia A-20 were perfectly readable on direct sunlight. Jetbook features display that is two generations ahead of my Cassiopeia screen, so I am pretty sure that its display is perfectly readable.
I just wouldn't go so far as claim that either display is clearly superior to the other one. The displays are different.

Let's have a look at some pictures that I found using google.
http://www.dobreebooki.pl/eczytniki_images/ectaco_jetbook_08.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/3077630421_a7d980557f_b.jpg
http://jim.pp.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/0_263d6_8b468b5a_xl.jpg
http://czech-dictionary.ectaco.name/images/geardiary_ectaco_jetbook_screenshot_24-500x316.jpg

Sweetpea
03-23-2010, 03:22 AM
I am afraid that there are many, many people that do not realize that there are non-backlit LCD displays. Lots of people can not understand that displays they see on calculators, old mobile phones, cheap digital watches and old palm organizers are too LCD, just different than their new TV or flat monitor. So when you hear that lcd can not be read pn direct sunlight you can see that that person does not understand what an LCD display is.

My calculator, my old digital watch and also my previous book reading device - Cassiopeia A-20 were perfectly readable on direct sunlight. Jetbook features display that is two generations ahead of my Cassiopeia screen, so I am pretty sure that its display is perfectly readable.
I just wouldn't go so far as claim that either display is clearly superior to the other one. The displays are different.

Let's have a look at some pictures that I found using google.
http://www.dobreebooki.pl/eczytniki_images/ectaco_jetbook_08.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/3077630421_a7d980557f_b.jpg
http://jim.pp.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/0_263d6_8b468b5a_xl.jpg
http://czech-dictionary.ectaco.name/images/geardiary_ectaco_jetbook_screenshot_24-500x316.jpg

The fact is, that even some backlit devices are perfectly readable in direct sunlight... Most people just want to ignore transflective screens. It's a technology on which the PixelQi screens are based upon...

Lemurion
03-23-2010, 03:32 PM
I know that personally, the trade-off for back-lighting isn't worth it for a primary reading device. Reading in the dark is a nice benefit - and it's better on my Droid than the light-wedge on my Sony - but I don't like the battery life.

akira28
04-13-2010, 03:09 PM
Nate,

In my experience there is a definite bias against LCD. Individuals offering opinions against the majority of e-ink owners or even by suggesting there is a bias here are subject to ridicule and attack. I offer two examples:

In this thread ( http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59937 ) I suggested to Mr Turcic, the thread's originator, that 1) setting up new forums appeared arbitrary (it can be when one person decides to set a minimum number of required posts and doesn't disclose that figure, allowing that number to change at will) and 2) there was a bias at MR. My bias suggestion was ignored and an explanation was never given as to why it took 18 months to implement a Jetbook (LCD) forum. A poster and myself were subsequently attacked by another poster. Mr. Turcic, who I assume is also a moderator, was silent as these attacks occured. Instead of defending people of the right to voice their opinion, by remaining silent the attacks were encouraged. If a forum moderator allows this to occur then why should anyone think that MobileRead is anything but unbiased.

In this thread (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79623) someone ran a poll in the General Discussion forum which posed the question of the two which [screen] technology was better overall. The poll was getting swamped in favor of e-ink. After reviewing the voter demographics, I suggested that the poll results could have been invalid. I was attacked and accused of "berating" people who favor e-ink and of having called them "unworthy". It seems that people who do not go with the groupthink are not only marginalized but are sometimes abused.

Thank you for the opportunity to address this concern.

idraw22
05-16-2010, 10:23 PM
Well, I get confused on which is which, but I have a Jetbook Lite, and love it! I intend to get another reader and I've been looking at the Kobo & the Sony Pocket. The only thing I feel anti against, is high-priced readers, or anything over 200 dollars. I like the way I don't see after images when I use my jetbook. I've been "visiting" the Sony Pocket at Best Buy and other stores. I don't like the way the screen goes black when you turn pages, but... I do like the price. I've seen the new Kindle commercials, too. They don't seem to advertise it as a book, but rather than it brings out your imagination, I guess. The Kindle does the same thing with the pages blanking when they turn, but there are things you'll overlook for a nice price and a good read.:bookworm:

luqmaninbmore
05-18-2010, 09:13 PM
There are some e-Ink readers (such as the Cybook Gen3 and the Pocketbook series) that allow you to turn off the flash.