One of the great features of the PalmOne Treo650 is that you are connected anywhere. Sure it's a great combination of cell phone and pda, but wireless is the awesome bonus.

Well, if you are a Verizon customer, don't count on it unless you're rich! Verizon's dirty little secret is that the Verizon version of the Treo 650 has been crippled, meaning that you can't connect with data any way but via Verizon's very expensive data plans. ($45/mo unlimited. $25 for 10meg/mo. And a single page can easily get close to 100K even with pictures turned off.)

For the average person, this means that with the Treo 650 you have a cell phone and you have a pda, but that's it. I think most people are not likely to pay $45/mo (which is $1080 for 2 years!)

As a result I HIGHLY recommend that you avoid the Verizon version of the Treo 650!

But I do like the Treo 650, so I'd do some shopping around to find the right carrier version for your needs.

It might be okay if you need the very good signal coverage of Verizon and are willing to either forego the data plan or shell out the $45, or live with less megabytes and byte counting. But I'd personally have rather paid the ~$200 fee to change carriers if I had known all this in advance. I could kick myself for not checking more carefully.

Don't know if it applies to the Treo 600 also or not. If I had bought it from a Verizon store, I would have returned it and canceled my service contract even now. But I don't have that option, and I guess I'm too lazy to do all that via ebay.

Note: I probably should have waited a week or two to post this info. I'm feeling a bit burned right now and frustrated at being trapped with a plan and phone that isn't going to give me wireless data at a price I can afford. I'm sure that affects the tone of this post greatly. But I want people to have the info. I'll edit this post later if I need to tone it down. So for the moment, just pardon my heated disgust at Verizon and my situation, and take out the information for what it's worth. :)

Like I told Alex, I'm extremely frustrated right now. Mostly because I wasn't smart enough to make the right choice, so I'm stuck for a year or two with a Treo but no data connectivity when I could be browsing away remotely with someone like Sprint.

The worst thing about the crippling of the Treo by Verizon is that you can't even do WAP web browing like what you can do with almost every other (WAP) "web enabled" phone they have. This is the part that frustrates me most. I would have expected Verizon to at least allow me to use the functionality of WAP browsing that I had on my previous $50 camera phone. It would have been great with the larger keyboard and screen.

I figured I'd add a WAP browser and simply change the network connection to either Verizons proxy server for $5/mo, or if they didn't want to provide that, I would use a public proxy server. But when I went to internet connections it said that "National Access" (Verizon's pricey data network) was locked and could not be changed. I should have done more research, but there's not much info about all this yet, and Verizon is very unwilling to share the info. Certainly they don't want to publicize it. Even their customer reps don't understand it all. I would have gladly paid another $100 or even $200 for an unlocked version, except the unlocked Treos sold are not compatible with Verizon. (Another reason to avoid Verizon!)

I don't believe you can use wifi or bluetooth to connect to the internet either, unless a hack shows up and you're willing to take a chance on it. Hopefully someone will provide a hack. Shadowmite has something, but doesn't seem confirmed much for Verizon phones, and I don't know if it handles WAP or bluetooth or just wifi. If others try it first with success, I'm just desperate enough to give it a try. But, of course, it's quite risky to do something like that anyway.

Bottom line is that Verizon forced PalmOne to cripple the device and force users to only connect via Verizon's very expensive data network. I can't afford $45/mo, and don't want to count megabytes, so I'm cancelling my data plan. Funny thing is that now, not only does Verizon lose the $20 or $25 per month I would have paid for a reasonable unlimited data plan, but they also lose the $5/mo I would have paid for WAP browsing.

The Treo is a great device, but much less great than it would have been if I could have at least used it for home connection to my wireless network via wifi, or if I could have had a reasonable monthly data plan like other carriers have.

One advantage of Verizon that I must admit to is that they have better coverage area. However, I suspect that Cingular/ATT is catching up fast. Personally, I'd have given up coverage to get data at a reasonable price, and I recommend that anyone with data needs avoid Verizon.

I made a big mistake, but hopefully this post will serve as a warning to future buyers out there.

That does suck... I can't be certain, but I may remember something about various patches for Verizon's Treo, to remove at least some of those limitations.

I can't find any in a quick search right now, but I'll try more later.

Sorry to hear of your plight, Bob. It bothers me the "fine print" these companies use to screw us customers. If they had any integrity at all, they'd place all of this information in the light and inform us up front of these different "quirks" before we signed on the dotted line. Also, the multi-year contracts bother me. Being "married" to a company before finding out their foibles is completely unfair. I'm with AT&T/Cingular, partly because I've been with them since Cellular One and I'd rather deal with the devil I know than the one I don't. I'm afraid if I fell for some other company's BS I might regret it later and then it'd be tough to go back to AT&T/Cingular and get the sweetheart deal I have now.

I'm a fan of unlocking a phone for use with other carriers, but I don't see much said about it on forums. It must not be the "right" solution. I just feel like the customer should take theiir phone with them to these different companies and not have to buy their "special" version. Whatever happened to "The Customer is Always Right"?
POL9A

I asked Bob before if he wanted to unlock his phone, but I guess loss of warranty is an issue here.

Yeah, I wasn't willing to consider the hack before. I've changed my mind after we talked because I discovered I couldn't even use WAP browsing. So loss of warranty or not, I'm willing to give it a go. I've got my old Verizon phone as a backup and am willing to buy another pda if I have to.

It's just a matter of finding the hack that does what I need for my ROM version, and waiting for other people to test it enough that I feel like the odds of success are pretty good. That may mess me up for upgrades, but I'm willing to forego upgrades if I can get WAP functionality back. There's a browser called WAP Universe that seems nice. They do indicate that there are rare fatal errors, but I can even live with that.... I'm almost desperate!

I suppose I could afford to switch carriers even now if I wanted to badly enough. But I couldn't bear the thought of paying all that money just to switch carriers. I've got to keep some money around for my next super-pda also! :)

Well I guess this answers my question. :(

Why can't you get out of your contract?

Note to self ::: Stick with Sprint.

Well I guess this answers my question. :(

Why can't you get out of your contract?Technically I could switch carriers for a fee of something like $160 or $180 or whatever the charge is.

If that was my only expense and trouble, I'd do it and switch to another carrier. But remember that I also have a Verizon-only Treo now that I would have to sell. Plus I would have to buy another Treo and start service with another carrier without my nice DevCon discount.

Plus there's no official place to ask the detailed questions that you really need answered. And an new unlocked Treo runs for about $700. Which still doesn't guarantee there are no more gotcha's!!! (Wouldn't that be a kicker if I paid all that and got surprised the second time around with more problems!)

I don't need the headaches or expense, so I'll probably either wait for a hack or live with a 10meg $25/mo data plan with Verizon. As much as I don't want to give them another cent, I may have to just admit that I'm defeated and have been beaten by their tactics and suffer through the shame and expense of their data plan until I can leave Verizon more cheaply. (Like when I want a new pda anyway.) But I can tell you one thing... Verizon will need a pretty awesome deal to ever win me back as a customer.

Or... maybe I could even teach myself how to hack through into WAP access on the Treo? I think I only need to replace that "National Access" with something else to get to a WAP proxy server like all the "cheapo" phones can do. How hard can that be? ;)

By the way, lest the Treo 650 get caught up in this too much, I've got to point out that the Treo itself is great. I'm really impressed with many aspects of it, and it's built very solid. I love the one-handed control of apps. And the way they've both integrated and separated the pda and phone functions is awesome.

In fact, even without a wireless data plan, it's well worthwhile. It's just that if I had chosen another carrier besides Verizon I might have had all that and much, much more by getting a reasonable data plan on top of it all.

Ok, so dont ask my why it took me so long to register but I finally have (thanks BobR);

back to the topic:
I've always said that VZW isnt a smart choice. Service aside, they do not cater to the customer and are only slower than Congress when it comes to moving with the times. I'd tell you to sell it BobR for as much as you can and use the money to cancel the contract and put towards an unlocked 650. Granted, you will be forking out more funds, but there is something to be said about being mobile without a chain to your wallet along the way.

We're honored have you here and registered at MobileRead Antoine! Your views are always interesting, whether on one of the sites you write for, or comments in forums like this one!

I may yet switch providers, but for the immediate future I'll see if I can survive without being connected, or if a hack comes out.

As far as I can tell, the existing hack hasn't been tried much yet on Verizon. And it is for Bluetooth DUN, dial up networking, which I assume is for connecting a laptop to a the Verizon data network via the Treo. Not what I need. But it would have potential if it allows you to connect to a dialup provider from the Treo and works with a Treo browser.

The unlimited data plan is $45? We just came from a Verizon kiosk and they wanted $79 for unlimited data.

Yes, I've heard about that. I think I read an article saying that they just recently lowered the one plan to $45/mo (and therefore I suppose that more drops in the price may take a while), but that if you want their new high speed network you still have to pay the ~$80 fee. I can't confirm that, but it matches what you were saying. Was that price quote you got based on service via a laptop card for wireless data network access?

Either way it's more than my wallet can stand without a real good reason.

But now I'm wondering if I might get really lucky... I cancelled the $25/mo for 10meg plan today. And have no per meg service. My CSR said there is no way to be charged for data connection now. (Of course that wouldn't include things like SMS message charges.) Yet I still seem to be able to connect so far. Are they still going to charge me, or does it take time to disconnect, or (be still my heart) do I get unbilled service? I suppose if I get lucky and have free service, I might stick to just WAP browsing to be fair. Or I might not! We'll see when I figure it out in a couple of months from the billing.The unlimited data plan is $45? We just came from a Verizon kiosk and they wanted $79 for unlimited data.

But now I'm wondering if I might get really lucky... I cancelled the $25/mo for 10meg plan today. And have no per meg service. My CSR said there is no way to be charged for data connection now. (Of course that wouldn't include things like SMS message charges.) Yet I still seem to be able to connect so far. Are they still going to charge me, or does it take time to disconnect, or (be still my heart) do I get unbilled service? I suppose if I get lucky and have free service, I might stick to just WAP browsing to be fair. Or I might not! We'll see when I figure it out in a couple of months from the billing.

At least with the Treo 600, there is a way to get data without paying for an extra data plan, and it seems like you may be hooked up with that option right now. I would not wait until your bill arrives to find out.

Verizon has an unpublicized option where instead of charging data by megabyte, it comes off as minutes from your monthly allotment. This is great if you use the phone mostly at night or on weekends, when all of the minutes are free. For some people like me, who use the data stuff mostly on weekends and at night, it's great, and since I'm not paying for any data plan, Verizon is actually cheaper than the other carriers.

However, you HAVE to be careful, because the Treo doesn't automatically disconnect (and if you see little arrows above the bars, you *ARE* connected even if you aren't doing anything), and you can quickly run over your weekday daytime minutes and run up a bill of more than $1,000. If you're doing this, get Battery Doctor. Now. It'll automatically disconnect you after a set amount of time.

You can find more information here: http://mytreo.net/treo600faq/VerizonNoDataPlan

One person's experience:
http://www.zacheverson.com/Blog/200...e-treo-600.html
Click on comments to get more info and more links.

Bob I am glad you bought a Treo and sorry to hear about your Verizon troubles. You can find a lot of information on hacking your device on this site (http://shadowmite.com/roms.html).

We're honored have you here and registered at MobileRead Antoine! Your views are always interesting, whether on one of the sites you write for, or comments in forums like this one!

Thank ya much :D

It may have a happy ending. cnek has made a point that might save me. I am on an old plan (no longer offered by Verizon). I had requested an upgrade from my current 300mins/mo to 450mins/mo plus free in-Verizon and prevention of roaming fees. Both have free long distance, and free unlimited off peak. I wanted the better plan, but have cancelled the switch and am staying with the old one.

It seems that on this ancient plan I appear to have (still not sure), it charges MOU for data (Minutes Of Use, ie airtime charges only). Like cnek said, I have to take steps to be careful about airtime charges if data connections persist accidentally, or can wake up without my knowledge. And I'm not sure exactly how it will work for me, but I will give it a try and see. I may have become lucky. But I'd still rather have bought a Treo tied to a wireless company that has a public, supported and promoted plan that I can live with.

In case you're wondering, I've also taken this page off the front page. I think the point has been made, and to be honest, I'm embarrassed by the tone of the writing. It's not horrible, so I'll leave it as-is in terms of the text, but I should never have written while in the heat of the emotions. It spoils what could have been a really great article if done with a positive approach. Sure, it's information that needs to get out, but I just wish I had packaged it differently. Lesson learned.

Thanks for everyone's input. I'll let you know over the next couple of months what happens. I hope to learn soon because I need to decide about my choice of plans so I don't have to extend my contract much if I switch. Who knows? Maybe the 450min plan will also handle my data needs as MOU?

I do want to provide a little balance once again...

Verizon has frustrated me with the Treo and data plans, but they have been a great carrier as far as wireless voice goes. The rates are approximately competitive for voice plans. The customer service is great on the voice side. I have, until now, had less unpleasant surprises than with the competition. Many of the people I know have Verizon phones, which makes in-Verizon promotions very nice. And most of all, they have the best signal coverage. So no matter how much I don't think they're a good fit for small budget Treo data users, I'd say overall they are a decent carrier in a business that doesn't exactly promote trust, goodwill and joy.

And finally, lest anyone misconstrue any of this to mean that the Treo 650 is not spectacular, let me make it perfectly clear.. I love my Treo, and like it better every day. PalmOne did a wonderful job with it, and despite the smartphone neccesitated compromises like screen size and memory, it's pretty much everything I need, and an excellent tradeoff.

I heartily recommend a Treo 650. However I would warn everyone to (1) Check carefully into all charges for data, and (2) Consider a non-Verizon Treo 650 if you are interested in a data plan and are on a budget.

Okay, enough clarification! I'm done. :)

Some hints for using "minutes of use" for Verizon data:
1. Go ahead and change your plan to 450 minutes if you want the extra time. MOU is not a plan per se, but a feature that can be turned on for any "National Access" or "America's Choice" plan. You may need to be persistent with the customer service people. Keep saying, "I do not want a data plan. I want 'minutes of use.'"
2. Some programs like SnapperMail have a feature where they automatically disconnect when they are done.
3. As I said before, get Battery Doctor:
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&PartnerREF=&siteid=1&prodID=60548
It's five bucks. It absolutely saves you from blowing billions of minutes (and $$) when you forget to disconnect.
4. Use #646 to check how many minutes you have left in the current billing cycle.

It sounds like everything will work out, but Verizon does offer a 15-day window for terminating the new service w/o penalty: http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/globalText?textName=RETURN_POLICY&jspName=footer/returnPolicy.jsp
It seems that you didn't buy your 650 directly from Verizon, but I imagine that it would still be returnable.

Thanks cnek. It almost works. I did already buy Battery Doctor.. it's very nice!

But Verizon apparently does audits that would find people on MOU, and supposedly they will charge you for data usage as if you were on the pay per meg plan. You might be able to fight with cust service to get charges removed, but that's not a nice result.

So Verizon's tactics are too good for me. I resign myself to no data or $45/mo data, just like they wanted me to. This great smart phone was designed for data connectivity it was built for, and that side of it may just be wasted on me unless I splurge on the data plan. Quite a shame, and extremely frustrating. I hope some real information gets out about the data access costs for various carriers so future consumers can be educated by a simple web search.

For a little perspective, my last two (cheap) Verizon phones had unlimited WAP web data access for $5/mo, and if I went back to them I could still do it. My friend has a Cingular phone with 500meg data for $5/mo. I've heard Sprint's unlimited data plan is $15/mo, and it works with the Treo. Those numbers are all just rumor because I didn't check on them, but Verizon gives a measly 10meg for $25/mo!

So here's the situation as I understand it:

1) Verizon requires a data plan with the Treo 650. But sometimes CSRs will just add one and delete it because they don't know better, or because they are pushed to do it by customers.

2) If someone uses wireless data with the Treo (which I can right now), Verizon supposedly will charge for it eventually because they are beginning to audit data usage. I've heard that twice now so it seems real.

3) Some Treo owners are hoping that by altering network connection settings to be on another data network they can only incur MOU. Similar to what cnek spotted. It's intruguing, but I'm not convinced, and I'm afraid it may just lead to problems when audited anyway. There's really no way to confirm all this with Verizon.

Okay, for balance...

Verizon does have good cust srvc for voice calling, and they have great signal coverage, and they have in-Verizon free minutes in some plans. One more nice Verizon option is insurance for the Treo for about $5/mo. Same price as every other phone they have, and it covers up to 3 claims per one year period. That could be reasons why people might want Verizon to be their carrier even with a Treo.

I regret my choice of carrier, but I don't regret getting the Treo one bit, even without wireless data. It's a great little smartphone, and it's really growing on me.

Still, verizon has something going for them! They do have great service and you hardly lose service like I constantly did with sprint. Plus the type of people you see with the Treo 650 usually write it off as a business expense. So, let their businesses worry about that. Its a phone for "corporate users."

-Jordan
Editor at www.2hot2handheld.com (http://www.2hot2handheld.com)