Hi,

I recently purchased a couple of ebooks for my newly aquired PRS-505 and am not happy with the whole ebook experience so far.

With the first book it is not possible to jump to a chapter from the table of contents. Some chapters work, some don't. Those that don't can be up to 20 pages out. The book is a reference book so I want to be able to jump around at will. It is an epub document and was supplied by Waterstones- the preferred supply in the UK.

With the second book, the formatting is messed up unless it is viewed on the smallest font setting which unfortunately renders it impossible to read even when using reading glasses. Increasing the font size does strange things like loses line breaks. This is a pdf document and I bought it from Books on Board.

Is this normal or have I bought a couple of duff items?

I am running the latest firmware on the sony (1.2.00.18050) and Adobe Digital Editions 1.5

Thanks

stu

I wouldn't say it's normal, but then with all the vast number of ebooks out there, it's hard to say what's normal. I haven't bought any reference books, so I can't speak to that side of things, and I don't have a 505 or 700 (yet -- it should be here this afternoon) so I can't speak to the epub side of things either.

But on my 500, the formatting on all the books I have purchased has been fine and resizing the font hasn't ruined anything. I've only bought novels, though.

I haven't come across formatting that bad, but I have not bought anything from Waterstones (yet). The book I'm currently reading, from Fictionwise, has a typo every few chapters. It is annonying because there is no simple (or official) way to correct them. If the formatting is that bad I would demand a refund.

The ePub one sounds like an error on the part of the document creator - I'd request a refund from the publisher.

The PDF case is more problematic. It is, from your description, more than like a case of a PDF document for which "reflow" doesn't work very well. PDF was never intended to be an eBook format and generally doesn't do at all well at it. It's far better to buy in virtually any other format than PDF if you can possibly help it.

The book I'm currently reading, from Fictionwise, has a typo every few chapters. It is annonying because there is no simple (or official) way to correct them.

In my experience, ebooks (other than PDFs) definitely have more typos than pbooks. :(
I don't think they're subjected to the same proofing procedures as pbooks.
I'm currently reading the ebook version of Steven King's 'The Stand', purchased from FictionWise. So far, I think every occurrence of 'corner' has been rendered as 'comer'. A typical OCR error.

In my experience, ebooks (other than PDFs) definitely have more typos than pbooks. :(
I don't think they're subjected to the same proofing procedures as pbooks.
I'm currently reading the ebook version of Steven King's 'The Stand', purchased from FictionWise. So far, I think every occurrence of 'corner' has been rendered as 'comer'. A typical OCR error.
Wow, and for this (http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook69719.htm?cache) they ask fifty bucks?!

Thanks for your comments and the heads up about pdfs. I've requested a refund from Waterstones and BooksonBoard. I'm a bit miffed about BooksonBoard as they say, on their site, the Adobe Digital Editions format is not pdf.

Cheers

stu

Now I'm scared. I just bought the Chronicles of Narnia series from BooksOnBoard in Adobe digital editions format. My PRS-505 should be here tomorrow, so hopefully this format isn't totally screwed up. Anyone else have experience with adobe digital editions?

Thanks for your comments and the heads up about pdfs. I've requested a refund from Waterstones and BooksonBoard. I'm a bit miffed about BooksonBoard as they say, on their site, the Adobe Digital Editions format is not pdf.

Cheers

stu

if it is adobe digital editions it could be epub format, which is not pdf.

Now I'm scared. I just bought the Chronicles of Narnia series from BooksOnBoard in Adobe digital editions format. My PRS-505 should be here tomorrow, so hopefully this format isn't totally screwed up. Anyone else have experience with adobe digital editions?

My mother taught me that if I can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all.

(OUCH! That Adobe DE burn I got is still raw!)

Wow, and for this (http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook69719.htm?cache) they ask fifty bucks?!

It's now $2.95 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Stand/dp/B001C4NXKM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1226588903&sr=1-1) at Amazon. I paid $9.99 for it a few months ago at Amazon and $17.?? for a LIT copy at Fictionwise at the same time. Don't know what they're thinking about.

It's now $2.95 (http://www.amazon.com/The-Stand/dp/B001C4NXKM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1226588903&sr=1-1) at Amazon. I paid $9.99 for it a few months ago at Amazon and $17.?? for a LIT copy at Fictionwise at the same time. Don't know what they're thinking about.

2.95 vs $50. That will pay for about 7% of your joining the Kindle book club.

BOb

Now I'm scared. I just bought the Chronicles of Narnia series from BooksOnBoard in Adobe digital editions format. My PRS-505 should be here tomorrow, so hopefully this format isn't totally screwed up. Anyone else have experience with adobe digital editions?

I wouldn't worry about the Narnia books. I bought them (Kindle version), and I'm up to book 4. I haven't found any typos.

I would bet the person who made the ebooks did it out of love for the series. They did take the time to scan and include the original pictures, after all.

I'm talking about the reflow issues with PDF. I noticed that the Narnia books from BooksOnBoard are in fact protected PDF files and not ePUB as they lead you to believe. The info on their formats page says that the adobe digital formats they sell are not PDF, and then the sample book they have you download is ePUB leading you to believe that you'll be getting ePUB.

In the future I'll probably stay away from the ADE eBooks (in fear of the PDF), and do the MS Reader deDRM and convert thing...

Now I'm scared. I just bought the Chronicles of Narnia series from BooksOnBoard in Adobe digital editions format. My PRS-505 should be here tomorrow, so hopefully this format isn't totally screwed up. Anyone else have experience with adobe digital editions?

The Mobi versions of the Narnia books are extremely nicely done, with all the original illustrations. No reason at all to suppose that the ePub versions shouldn't be equally good.

TI'm a bit miffed about BooksonBoard as they say, on their site, the Adobe Digital Editions format is not pdf.
Yes they need to update their web site. Before "Adobe Digital Editions" meant ePUB. But Adobe has changed their license servers to include handle both ePUB and PDF. I have some old PDF that worked with Adobe 7. The latest one bought only worked with Adobe DE.

Any how BoB has changed their terminology. ePUB are called "Adobe ePUB" and PDF are "Adobe Digital Editions"

Now I'm scared. I just bought the Chronicles of Narnia series from BooksOnBoard in Adobe digital editions format. My PRS-505 should be here tomorrow, so hopefully this format isn't totally screwed up. Anyone else have experience with adobe digital editions?

They are PDF. If they where optimized for a 6" screen you would be okay, but my experience is that most PDF on BoB are letter.

The Icons they display to denote PDF or ePUBs are different here is how they look.

EPUB Icon
http://www.booksonboard.com/softwareLogos/ePubBuyNow.jpg

PDF (Aka "Adobe Digital Editions")
http://www.booksonboard.com/softwareLogos/AdobeBuyNow.jpg

Thanks for the info. I contacted BoB this morning about the issue and I was told that the PDF files should render exactly the same as the EPUB files on the Sony Reader. I hope he's right. :(

I'm feeling a bit burned by my first eBook experience! But as with anything new, it'll take some mistakes to learn. :)

I think it would be better if they used the same icon as the desktop version of Digital Editions to separate it from regular PDFs.

Thanks for the info. I contacted BoB this morning about the issue and I was told that the PDF files should render exactly the same as the EPUB files on the Sony Reader. I hope he's right. :(


No, that's absolutely NOT true.

When the Sony Reader renders a page of a PDF file, it takes the current page of the PDF (PDF is page-based, not continuous text like ePub) and attempts to "reflow" the material on the page to fit the generally much smaller screen of the Reader. You'll still get a page break wherever the original page finishes, which may well be half way down the Reader's screen.

It really cannot be said often enough. Avoid PDF like the plague, unless it has been specifically formatted for the screen size of the device you're reading it on.

I noticed that the Narnia books from BooksOnBoard are in fact protected PDF files and not ePUB as they lead you to believe.
The BooksOnBoard Format Selection Guide (http://www.booksonboard.com/index.php?BODY=formats) is wrong. Adobe Digital Editions ebooks (e.g. the Narnia books) from BoB are Secure PDF ebooks, and they have a red Adobe logo icon. At BoB Secure ePubs are called Adobe EPUB and their icon is a smaller red Adobe logo with a book in front. See, for example, The Gate House by Nelson DeMille (http://www.booksonboard.com/index.php?BODY=viewbook&BOOK=304064&v=details) which has all the ebook formats that BoB supports.

In defence of BoB, calling Adobe Secure ebooks "PDFs" is true but misleading because they can't be read by most PDF readers (including those from Adobe). They should update their Format Selection Guide though.

EDIT: I see =X= has the icons in post #16

I think it would be better if they used the same icon as the desktop version of Digital Editions to separate it from regular PDFs.
They do see my post
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=288447&postcount=16

Their help documentation is however incorrect and is the cause of their confusion.

Here is a link to a book that has all the file formats. Where the ePUB, and PDf are different icons.
http://www.booksonboard.com/index.php?BODY=viewbook&BOOK=222157

Thanks for the info. I contacted BoB this morning about the issue and I was told that the PDF files should render exactly the same as the EPUB files on the Sony Reader. I hope he's right. :(

I'm feeling a bit burned by my first eBook experience! But as with anything new, it'll take some mistakes to learn. :)
You know I'm real surprised that they chose to release this as a PDF vs. an ePUB version.

That said I am also skeptical that the PDF will work just like the ePUB. Unless the PDF was created for the SONY, and I doubt that.

The good news is PDF books bought from FictionWise and BoB tend to reflow much better than the average PDF. So it should not be to bad.

=X=

Hi, I thought I'd mention a little 505 workaround for people who find a problem in a TOC and can't jump to a certain spot in an ebook. You can enter a page number with the numbered buttons along the side.

For example, if you guess that the place you need to get is at or near page 305, you hit the buttons (slowly) 3, 0, 5. They will appear on the screen and then you hit the enter button (circle inside circle button on lower right). This will take you to page 305, or whatever page you enter.

Comes in handy sometimes.

I'm feeling a bit burned by my first eBook experience! But as with anything new, it'll take some mistakes to learn. :)

I can understand your ire and can only imagine that it's worse since it was a reference book instead of a general reading book.

I remember when the first few books I picked up were formatted (badly) for handheld devices and contained horribly wide margins, TOCs that didn't actually link anywhere and misspellings and bad hyphenation. Basically the books being sold were hard formatted for PDAs or just scanned in, ran through a OCR and packaged in whatever ebook format was for sale.

Oddly enough readers seemed to notice these problems and, in our standard formation of pitchforks and e-tar, let the vendors know. They in turn made the publishers aware that sales were being lost. (A lot were lost to self made versions of works too. Kinda embarrassing to charge as much as they were and have it be completely inferior to a version here at Mobileread.)

Excuses were made. (One of my favorites was that it took a lot of work to get a new book into an e-format. Lots and lots of extra work on top of everything needed to get it into paper form. It's not like you could just plug an electronic manuscript into some sort of program and have a readable book just pop out! sigh.....)

Having said all that, most books now, especially the newer ones, ARE formatted correctly. You actually have to work at it to screw them up now. The more mainstream the title or more inclined the publisher is towards d-formats (O'Reilly technical books is a good example of the latter) the better they read and navigate. Low volume books and ones published a few years back are the ones most likely to still have problems.

(Though I've heard rumors....vague rumors....that some people will still go to extreme lengths to avoid anything with a DRM that can't be circumvented yet to avoid the exact problem you had. A badly formatted book without DRM can be fixed. A badly formatted book with DRM should have coupons for some sort of over the counter pain medication. Like a hammer.)

They do see my post
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=288447&postcount=16



That's what I was responding to. The second icon looks like the normal Adobe Reader icon for PDFs. The icon I have for Digital Editions is very different and easy to tell apart.

That's what I was responding to. The second icon looks like the normal Adobe Reader icon for PDFs. The icon I have for Digital Editions is very different and easy to tell apart.

Oh got it. Didn't Adobe do the ol' switcharoo. I remember the ADE was supposedly written for the ePUB and we were "pleasantly" surprised when it also supported PDF. I think all this re-defining of their products is really confusing people and giving Adobe and Bob a bad name

=X=

BoB was kind enough to offer me a 50% store credit for the Narnia books. I suppose that's better than nothing.

Basically in the email they were trying to explain how much of a headache the whole Adobe Digital Editions, PDF and EPUB thing was causing. In their wisdom (BoB) they decided that calling the EPUB and the PDF format just Adobe Digital Edition would keep the confusion down... :rolleyes:. I wonder why publishers are even choosing the PDF format over the EPUB anyway?

Think you should carefully consider the formats you buy, the Sony Reader's ability to render them accurately, and DRM issues.

My wife and I buy almost all of our books in LIT format. These can be easily converted to other formats so that your investment is protected if/when you change devices. LIT preserves formatting nicely, doesn't have the reflow issues that PDF has, etc. MOBI and eReader formats are other good choices as well IMO.

Diego

Ya, I'll be using the credit they gave me to re-buy the books in .Lit format so I can strip the DRM.

Okay, re-purchased the Narnia books in Microsoft Reader (lit) format, used LitConvert to strip the DRM and then used Calibre to convert to LRF. Everything looks great, very very happy. I think I'm going to stick to Microsoft Reader format as much as I can, seems to be an easy solution for avoiding DRM.