Anyone successfully used the newest gen3 firmware and used it to update their starebook? Am not liking the extremely short battery life I seem to get with the 685 firmware :blink:

How do you obtain a licence to run the Gen3's firmware on the StareBook? Do Bookeen sell a separate licence for the firmware?

How do you obtain a licence to run the Gen3's firmware on the StareBook? Do Bookeen sell a separate licence for the firmware?

Since Bookeen most probably are distributing material they do not have the copyright for they cannot sell you a licence.

I thought they'd now satisfied the GPL by releasing source code?

I thought they'd now satisfied the GPL by releasing source code?

If you read the thread it does not seem to be the case since code for drivers have been removed from the source they have distributed.

Be that as it may, I'd still be interested to know how the original poster has obtained a licence to run the Gen3's firmware on this other device!

Be that as it may, I'd still be interested to know how the original poster has obtained a licence to run the Gen3's firmware on this other device!

It seems impossible to obtain such a licence so why do you wonder that? And if you in some way have en electronic files in most country you can do whatever you want with it. Why do you think a licence is needed?

Don't you think that a portion of the price of the Gen3 is payment for the software on it? I'm sure that Bookeen are paying Mobi some kind of royalty payment for every machine that they sell. If one hasn't bought a Gen3, one has no right to use that software.

That's my suspicion, anyway. What do you think?

Don't you think that a portion of the price of the Gen3 is payment for the software on it? I'm sure that Bookeen are paying Mobi some kind of royalty payment for every machine that they sell. If one hasn't bought a Gen3, one has no right to use that software.

That's my suspicion, anyway. What do you think?

I do not think you have the moral right to use the software in the Cybook even if you bought it because of the GPL issue.

If you buy something you can sign a contract promising things. I am not sure exactly what you can sign away according to laws. But in this case why do you assume that the firmware is bought? There are links in this forum were you can download the firmware without saying you accept any conditions. Or you can get the firmware from a friend. So legally you can use it.

Putting aside the issue of GPLed software in the Bookeen image, a licence is still needed to use the MobiPocket reading capability. Cybook owners get a MobiPocket licence via Bookeen, but running this on a starebook is definitely bootlegging the MobiPocket copyrighted software.

Bookeen doesn't currently conform to GPL not only because they didn't issue full source code, but also because they have to make it known to the user that the application contains GPLed code - for example in the About page - and latest firmware version doesn't do that. So currently Bookeen firmware is illegal in all countries that respect GPL, and using it is just like using pirated software.

When they start conforming to GPL, the Linux kernel and operating system they use on Cybooks will be free, and every user should be able to install it - however, without Bookeen's BooReader application, ie reader and library application, which contain Mobipocket's code, and don't contain any GPLed code, as far as I know (they might contain GPLed code for mp3 player, but I'm not sure about that).

If Bookeen doesn't make it possible to install and use Linux on Cybook without their application, it would mean the application and Linux should be considered a single module, and then the application would have to be released under GPL as well for the firmware to conform to GPL license. (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#MereAggregation)

So in my understanding, some more time will pass before that firmware becomes legal to use.

Don't you think that a portion of the price of the Gen3 is payment for the software on it? I'm sure that Bookeen are paying Mobi some kind of royalty payment for every machine that they sell. If one hasn't bought a Gen3, one has no right to use that software.

Bookeen don't have permission to use the software either. So even if one bought a Gen3, one has no right to use the software.

If Bookeen doesn't make it possible to install and use Linux on Cybook without their application, it would mean the application and Linux should be considered a single module, and then the application would have to be released under GPL as well for the firmware to conform to GPL license. (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#MereAggregation)

So in my understanding, some more time will pass before that firmware becomes legal to use.

By your definition, NO eBook reader is "legal" to use then, because on none of them is it possible to install Linux without the associated reading application. You can't install Linux on a Sony Reader without Sony's reading application, so does this mean that, in your view, it is "illegal" to use a Sony Reader?

You are seriously saying that all these companies are selling illegal products? With respect, I'm sure that they all employ lawyers who know rather more about what is or is not legal to sell than you or I do.

This strikes me as being a quite ridiculous argument :).

Bookeen don't have permission to use the software either. So even if one bought a Gen3, one has no right to use the software.

So you're not using yours, then?

By your definition, NO eBook reader is "legal" to use then, because on none of them is it possible to install Linux without the associated reading application. You can't install Linux on a Sony Reader without Sony's reading application, so does this mean that, in your view, it is "illegal" to use a Sony Reader?

You are seriously saying that all these companies are selling illegal products? With respect, I'm sure that they all employ lawyers who know rather more about what is or is not legal to sell than you or I do.


I am sure they do not. I am sure we know better how GPL works than Bookeen.

I do not understand why you refuse to accept that when Bookeen sell a Cybook it is copyright infringement. But if nobody takes them to court it is pretty safe to continue selling the Cybook.

According to GPL2 you do not have to be able to install the firmware. In GPL3 the seller has to provide the method to install the firmware. So for the Cybook they do not have to provide the installation method.

So you're not using yours, then?

That depends on how much you respect laws. I trust you do not use yours since you seem to want to respect all laws.

So you're not using yours, then?

I do - but then, I'm an old pirate, like most of Polish people didn't switch to legal things immediately when Poland acknowledged there's such thing as copyright, and that one is relatively small crime in my eyes.

Plus I'm waiting to see how OpenInkpot works out, to switch to it when its usable.

That depends on how much you respect laws. I trust you do not use yours since you seem to want to respect all laws.

My "contract" is with Bookeen. If THEY have not acted in good faith, that is not my problem. You claim they are guilty of copyright infringement, but to the best of my knowledge nobody has charged them with doing so. We have a quaint custom in my country of assuming that people are innocent until proven guilty. Until or unless a court rules that Bookeen are guilty of copyright infringement and tells me that I cannot continue to use my Gen3, I shall do so with a clear conscience.

By your definition, NO eBook reader is "legal" to use then, because on none of them is it possible to install Linux without the associated reading application. You can't install Linux on a Sony Reader without Sony's reading application, so does this mean that, in your view, it is "illegal" to use a Sony Reader?
Sony provide full sources to the Linux kernel and the drivers which are compiled into the kernel. They also have a clear mention of GPL in the manual. They do not provide sources for loadable drivers for the SD/MS cards, the sources for the reading application or instructions on installing your own kernel on the device as, alas, this is not required by the GPLv2 (and one of the things addressed by GPLv3).
That said, you definitely can "install Linux on a Sony Reader without Sony's reading application" even if it's a bit complicated.
http://openinkpot.org/wiki/ProgressOfWenjieGsoc

So, Sony knows GPL and they abide by it. Bookeen did well by releasing (partial) sources, but they're not fully compliant just yet.

Hi Igorsk,

I think that Krystian meant that no eBook reader is legal unless it will run its own Linux kernel compiled from the released GPL sources. Can you create and install a runnable kernel from the source that Sony provide? If not, I think that Krystian will regard it as illegal!

I'm aware of the OpenInkpot project - it will run on the Gen3, too. It looks like an extremely worthwhile project.

Yes, you can compile Sony's sources and use the compiled kernel to run it - that's what Wenjie started from.

Thanks!

My "contract" is with Bookeen. If THEY have not acted in good faith, that is not my problem. You claim they are guilty of copyright infringement, but to the best of my knowledge nobody has charged them with doing so. We have a quaint custom in my country of assuming that people are innocent until proven guilty. Until or unless a court rules that Bookeen are guilty of copyright infringement and tells me that I cannot continue to use my Gen3, I shall do so with a clear conscience.

But please can you stop pointing out possible copyright infringements in MobileRead then. Nobody has shown in a court that infringement occur so why remove links and why do you ask questions like the question about licences in this thread? Nobody has shown in court that it is problematic to use the Cybook firmware on a Starbook.

why do you ask questions like the question about licences in this thread?

Because I'm (still) interested to know how the original poster obtained their software licence to run the Gen3's firmware on a StarEBook. I think it's undeniably true that the Mobi Reader is licenced commercial software, and that you can't run it (legally) without a licence to do so. Wouldn't you agree?

Because I'm (still) interested to know how the original poster obtained their software licence to run the Gen3's firmware on a StarEBook. I think it's undeniably true that the Mobi Reader is licenced commercial software, and that you can't run it (legally) without a licence to do so. Wouldn't you agree?

Mobi Reader undeniably is fully legal commercial software. However, status of BooReader with parts of Mobi Reader code in it isn't presently as clear.
Since running it without a licence hasn't been yet challenged in any court, I think we can safely assume we don't need a licence yet.

Because I'm (still) interested to know how the original poster obtained their software licence to run the Gen3's firmware on a StarEBook. I think it's undeniably true that the Mobi Reader is licenced commercial software, and that you can't run it (legally) without a licence to do so. Wouldn't you agree?

I do not agree if I am using your standard to test things in court first.

And not using your standard I think selling the Cybook is copyright infringement and I do not know how laws work in this case. I cannot see how Bookeen can sell a licence to something they have no right to distribute. So how can a licence then be required?

Because I'm (still) interested to know how the original poster obtained their software licence to run the Gen3's firmware on a StarEBook.

Why do you assume he obtained one? I read the purpose of your question as pointing out that the poster have done something you think is illegal.

I think that the majority of reasonable people would assume that a licence would be required, Tommy. It is a generally accepted fact that using commercial software (the Mobi Reader) without a licence would be inappropriate.

I think that the majority of reasonable people would assume that a licence would be required, Tommy. It is a generally accepted fact that using commercial software (the Mobi Reader) without a licence would be inappropriate.

Since it is not tested in court I do not see how you can accept this (I might accept it but then I do not demand things to be tested in court). It is a generally accepted fact that distributing GPL:ed binaries without the code is copyright infringement. Why do you have different standards for this case?

Why do you have different standards for this case?

Because I'm a hypocrite, obviously.

I'm afraid I don't understand your attitude to the Gen3, Tommy. If you are so absolutely convinced that it is (in your view) illegal to use, why don't you return it to Bookeen and request a refund of your money? You repeatedly tell us that EU laws give you the right to do so.

Why do you continue to use something that you believe that you shouldn't be using? That seems like hypocracy to me - you tell other people that they shouldn't buy a Gen3, and yet you use one yourself. How do you rationalise that?

Made the mistake of not checking this thread for a day or two...

Anyway, from a technical point of view, has anyone got the firmware to install? Seeing as this was the initial question :)

:thanks: in advance, I'll report back this weekend if noone has, just haven't had time to try it myself yet.

Because I'm a hypocrite, obviously.

I'm afraid I don't understand your attitude to the Gen3, Tommy. If you are so absolutely convinced that it is (in your view) illegal to use, why don't you return it to Bookeen and request a refund of your money? You repeatedly tell us that EU laws give you the right to do so.


I was going to return it but now I am planning to use only OpenInkpot on it.

Because I'm a hypocrite, obviously.

I'm afraid I don't understand your attitude to the Gen3, Tommy. If you are so absolutely convinced that it is (in your view) illegal to use,

Have I really said that? When I tried to check I could only confirm that it was distribution (like selling your Cybook) that was legally problematic.

Made the mistake of not checking this thread for a day or two...

Anyway, from a technical point of view, has anyone got the firmware to install? Seeing as this was the initial question :)

:thanks: in advance, I'll report back this weekend if noone has, just haven't had time to try it myself yet.

There was links to firmware in some threads in the Cybook section. Search for fmt in the name of the link.

OK, all this legal banter is nice and fine, but one thing irks me...

The Mobipocket software is free, I can download it to any of my devices (PC, Mobile Phone) without paying and without signing any special contract (apart from the usual terms of use you click when downloading).
So, what is so different about the Linux version that is running on the Iliad, Gen3 and other devices???
An, who is going to lose anything on this anyway? Mobipocket gains more sales with every device that runs their software (that is why they give it away for free after all I guess...) because people then buy books in mobipocket format...

Well, anyway, it's a moot point since the new firmware won't run on the STAReBOOK anyway...you can't flash regular Cybook updates onto the STAReBOOK withou modifying the firmware file, so I guess this whole discussion is a bit pointless.

There was links to firmware in some threads in the Cybook section. Search for fmt in the name of the link.

Thanks for that, I've already found the file, I signed up to Bookeen's website and downloaded it directly from them a few days ago, just gotta try it :D

Regards, Simon

The Mobipocket software is free, I can download it to any of my devices (PC, Mobile Phone) without paying and without signing any special contract (apart from the usual terms of use you click when downloading).
So, what is so different about the Linux version that is running on the Iliad, Gen3 and other devices???
An, who is going to lose anything on this anyway? Mobipocket gains more sales with every device that runs their software (that is why they give it away for free after all I guess...) because people then buy books in mobipocket format...


Mobi come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on people who distribute their software without authorisation - we've had experience of that on this site, as you know, after some joker tried to do something of dubious legality with the Java version of the Mobi Reader on the iLiad. Don't mess with Mobi's lawyers - you'll regret it!

Yep, I agree with you there...never mess with lawyers...^^

Anyway, the only one here who might get into trouble with Bookeen is Delphidb since he is the one who posted the files necessary for converting devices like the STAReBOOK to a Gen3 and he had/has some kind of agreement with Bookeen if I remember correctly.
Bookeen seems pretty unlikely to sue anyone anyway since their legal status is pretty slippery anyway and Mobipocket would be pretty stupid to sue somebody for using their software...and I'm not convinced that it really is illegal to install the Cybook mobi reader on another device, but I don't have the necessary contractual information from mobipocket about that so I can't say for sure, maybe somebody can dig it up.

Modifying it surely is illegal, ripping the DRM of mobi files is also pretty sure to get you into trouble, but installing on another device...I'm not sure, but I'm no lawyer (luckily) so I don't have to know stuff like that.

And one last thing....nobody is distributing Mobi software illegally here...Bookeen offers the Firmware on their website, free for all who want it...

Yep, I agree with you there...never mess with lawyers...^^

Anyway, the only one here who might get into trouble with Bookeen is Delphidb since he is the one who posted the files necessary for converting devices like the STAReBOOK to a Gen3 and he had/has some kind of agreement with Bookeen if I remember correctly.
Bookeen seems pretty unlikely to sue anyone anyway since their legal status is pretty slippery anyway and Mobipocket would be pretty stupid to sue somebody for using their software...and I'm not convinced that it really is illegal to install the Cybook mobi reader on another device, but I don't have the necessary contractual information from mobipocket about that so I can't say for sure, maybe somebody can dig it up.

Modifying it surely is illegal, ripping the DRM of mobi files is also pretty sure to get you into trouble, but installing on another device...I'm not sure, but I'm no lawyer (luckily) so I don't have to know stuff like that.

And one last thing....nobody is distributing Mobi software illegally here...Bookeen offers the Firmware on their website, free for all who want it...

I have no agreement with Bookeen. (I'm not employed by Bookeen and do not, at this time, work for any company which *is* in a relationship with Bookeen. :) ) And it was not *I* who modified the build538 update firmware to allow it to initially install onto the Netronix/STAReBOOK/etc. I simply posted a link to the modified files.

OK, sorry, that was a misunderstanding then. I thought I remembered something about you beeing in some kind of contract with Bookeen about the Cybook and NAEB thingy...

I'm afraid I don't understand your attitude to the Gen3, Tommy. If you are so absolutely convinced that it is (in your view) illegal to use, why don't you return it to Bookeen and request a refund of your money? You repeatedly tell us that EU laws give you the right to do so.

Harry, by the same reasoning, if you are so absolutely convinced that it is (in your view) illegal to use the firmware on another device, why don't you tell Bookeen and have them make a public statement here?