View Full Version : azw -> any other format : possible?


Dave Berk
08-27-2008, 07:22 AM
Recently I'm seeing more and more books that I want which are available exclusively for the kindle.

For example:
The Tyranny of the Night: Book One of the Instrumentalities of the Night (http://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Night-Book-One-Instrumentalities/dp/B001DABP2S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1219833714&sr=1-3)
Chronicles of the Black Company (http://www.amazon.com/Chronicles-of-the-Black-Company/dp/B001AUGO86/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1219833714&sr=1-2)
Hawkwood's Voyage (http://www.amazon.com/Hawkwoods-Voyage/dp/B000OIZUEO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&qid=1219835737&sr=1-2)
As for the last book, I don't understand the logic of it. It's the first book in the series of four, but Fictionwise and BoB are only stocking the last one... :chinscratch:

My question is twofold:
1. Is there a way to buy kindle books without having a kindle (some hack)?
2. If there is, is there a way to format shift it into mobi or htm? (mobidedrm perhaps? or some other way)

I'm not talking about the legallities of it all. I do not consider format shifting a moral crime. Once I have paid for it, it's mine. (Please do not start a discussion about this, there are too many around as it is :))

igorsk
08-27-2008, 08:40 AM
1. You have to have a Kindle registered to your account, regardless whether you have one or not :)
2. Mobidedrm works on AZW files (which are actually Mobi). It doesn't work on AZW1 and TPZ (Topaz) files.

Dave Berk
08-27-2008, 08:50 AM
Thanks, Igor.

Since I don't have a kindle, is it possible to register the same kindle on more than one account? That way I can get a friend to register his kindle on my account as well.

Also, is there a way to find, before buying, if the book I want to buy is azw, aw1, or tpz? What's the difference between these formats?

desertgrandma
08-27-2008, 09:21 AM
Thanks, Igor.

Since I don't have a kindle, is it possible to register the same kindle on more than one account? That way I can get a friend to register his kindle on my account as well.

Also, is there a way to find, before buying, if the book I want to buy is azw, aw1, or tpz? What's the difference between these formats?

Per your first question, No, you can't register one Kindle on two accounts. You can register two Kindles on one account, using the same credit card.

One question two, I"m not sure, but maybe downloading a free sample would tell you?

daffy4u
08-27-2008, 11:10 AM
Recently I'm seeing more and more books that I want which are available exclusively for the kindle.



If that's true, maybe you should consider adding a Kindle to your arsenal of ebook readers. Just a thought :)

slayda
08-27-2008, 11:48 AM
But an expensive thought!:rolleyes:

daffy4u
08-27-2008, 11:51 AM
I'm a high priced thinker. :p

Dave Berk
08-27-2008, 11:58 AM
daffy4u: Sadly I can't. I don't live in the states.

Anyway, there goes my dream of outsmarting Amazon and getting their books on my reader......

JSWolf
08-27-2008, 12:48 PM
Recently I'm seeing more and more books that I want which are available exclusively for the kindle.

If that's true, maybe you should consider adding a Kindle to your arsenal of ebook readers. Just a thought :)If that's true, maybe you should consider adding a Kindle to your arsenal of ebook readers. Just a thought :)
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.

desertgrandma
08-27-2008, 01:13 PM
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.

HUH?? The Kindle has everything I want in an E-book reader, and I'm not supposed to buy it because EVERYONE can't access Amazon's books? BS!

daffy4u
08-27-2008, 01:23 PM
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.

We don't know that it's an exclusive deal. The first 2 books on Dave Berk's list are from Tor and will probably be available through their new site or the deal they have with Baen in the future.

The last book is from a publisher names ACE. i don't know enough about them to comment.

As much as I agree that ebooks should be open to everyone I will not stop purchasing books from Amazon.

bwaldron
08-27-2008, 01:31 PM
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format.

I agree. It's especially egregious with books in .azw format, which Amazon could obviously make available through Mobipocket.

I like Amazon. I have spent much money there on other things (like DRM-free music). I don't like some of the things they are doing in the print-on-demand and ebook markets.

These things do have a way of working themselves out, though, and it's still early days for ebooks (even though some of us have been reading that way for many years).

desertgrandma
08-27-2008, 01:44 PM
Isn't this a little like when Microsoft first started out? No one could copy their programs, right? They kinda had the software locked up.

But what happened? People became so incensed, they figured out programs that got around the microsoft lockdown. You used to not be able to get Word, or the microsoft office tools without buying a licensed copy from the. Now, there is "open office" almost an exact duplicate. You don't need to use Internet Explorer. you can use Firefox. You don't even need Windows. You can use Linux. (Or Mac)

My point is this. Eventually, someone, somewhere will come out with ways around Amazon's "exclusive" deals, and product. Legally. And cheaper.

Already, thanks to people on this forum, there are ways to change titles, authors, etc., and God knows what.

Trying to get Amazon to change its policies will not work. They don't care. When you rake in the money hand over fist, you really don't have time to care.

Someone, somewhere, will solve this issue.

Leep
08-27-2008, 02:50 PM
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.
I respectfully disagree with JS. A business should have options on who they serve and what they sell - Through history, businesses are sucessful because they serve a market niche, instead of trying to be all things to all people. Proprietary products and services are part of maintaining a business model.

Why should Amazon be expected to operate any differently? Not every book is available in paperback, not every gas station has diesel, not every airline serves St. Louis. Should we ask our friends to boycott them?

rsdavis9
12-02-2008, 11:31 AM
1. You have to have a Kindle registered to your account, regardless whether you have one or not


So to summarize. To purchase ebooks from amazon.

You have to have a kindle pid which you get from a kindle serial number which you have to buy a kindle to get?
There isn't anyway around this? Like faking the serial number? Finding kindle serial number's someplace on the web?

I have a prs-505 and would like the option of purchasing ebooks from amazon without paying $350 dollars for a kindle which I probably won't use.

bob

texasnightowl
12-02-2008, 11:41 AM
So to summarize. To purchase ebooks from amazon.

You have to have a kindle pid which you get from a kindle serial number which you have to buy a kindle to get?
There isn't anyway around this? Like faking the serial number? Finding kindle serial number's someplace on the web?

I have a prs-505 and would like the option of purchasing ebooks from amazon without paying $350 dollars for a kindle which I probably won't use.

bob

No, there is no way around this...Amazon will not let you purchase kindle books unless there is a kindle registered to your account. So even if you did "find" or "fake" some serial numbers, that does nothing for you as far as having a kindle registered to your account.

texasnightowl
12-02-2008, 11:48 AM
Also, is there a way to find, before buying, if the book I want to buy is azw, aw1, or tpz? What's the difference between these formats?

Downloading the samples will show you. AZW is the default. AZW1/TPZ are different and allow for embedded fonts. The TPZ books I've seen so far look like they were scanned in and had marks and such like you would see when photocopying.

The other way to tell before purchasing that I've seen is:

When browsing on Amazon site using your PC, if the description of the ebook contains both page numbers AND file size, it is usually AZW. If it does not contain file size information, only lists page numbers, then it is usually AZW1/TPZ. This does not work when searching from the Kindle itself on the Amazon store and the info doesn't seem to get listed.

pilotbob
12-02-2008, 01:13 PM
There isn't anyway around this? Like faking the serial number? Finding kindle serial number's someplace on the web?


Nope.

1. You can only register valid Kindle S/Ns.
2. You can't register the same S/N to more than one account.

Perhaps you can advertise "wanted broken Kindle"... or something and you can register it if you can fine one. But, buying from Fictionwise makes a bit more sense. You might pay a few extra dollars for some books, but you save $350.

BOb

cynoclast
12-10-2008, 01:47 PM
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.I would gladly purchase the books I want to read in other formats, since I do not own, and do not want a kindle.

It's funny that Dave Berk specifically mentions books I want to read in this post, because I'm looking to do the very same thing he is.

I desperately want to be able to read ebooks on my preferred reader, not Amazon's preferred reader, and I'm perfectly willing to buy them, but not if I can only read them on the kindle.

cynoclast
12-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Proprietary products and services are part of maintaining a business model.This is true, but an intrinsic part of every proprietary format is the market created for unlocking it. See printer the printer cartridge refill market for example (HP printer ink is more expensive than human blood).

I am very eagerly awaiting a place where I can buy any ebook I want without the prerequisite of owning a Kindle. And I'm willing to pay for it.

DaleDe
12-10-2008, 02:19 PM
This is true, but an intrinsic part of every proprietary format is the market created for unlocking it. See printer the printer cartridge refill market for example (HP printer ink is more expensive than human blood).

I am very eagerly awaiting a place where I can buy any ebook I want without the prerequisite of owning a Kindle. And I'm willing to pay for it.

Try looking in the wiki http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E-book_stores

Dale

RickyMaveety
12-10-2008, 02:32 PM
I have to disagree. The more Amazon makes exclusive deals, the better off we are NOT purchasing such. It's bad for eBooks to have any eBooks be exclusive to any one format. And if we allow this to continue, you'll have Amazon thinking it's ok. It's not ok. It's bad. And has to be stopped. If you want to help eBooks, do not purchase any eBooks from Amazon that are not also available elsewhere in other formats. of course, not purchasing a Kindle would help as well.

Wow ... I really disagree with that statement. No surprise in that, I guess. It's bad for reading in general that people have to pay a bookstore (or live near a library) in order to get access to books. All books should be absolutely free ... that's what's good for reading.

Oh, wait ... that's not very good for authors. No one would be paying them any royalties. So then authors wouldn't write and that wouldn't be good for reading.

Hmmmm .... and naturally Sony should not be able to have any books that are in a proprietary format either. No one should buy a Sony reader until they stop trying to make money .... it's not supposed to be a business, dammit!!

:rofl:

cynoclast
12-10-2008, 05:03 PM
Wow ... I really disagree with that statement. No surprise in that, I guess. It's bad for reading in general that people have to pay a bookstore (or live near a library) in order to get access to books. All books should be absolutely free ... that's what's good for reading.

Oh, wait ... that's not very good for authors. No one would be paying them any royalties. So then authors wouldn't write and that wouldn't be good for reading.

Hmmmm .... and naturally Sony should not be able to have any books that are in a proprietary format either. No one should buy a Sony reader until they stop trying to make money .... it's not supposed to be a business, dammit!!

:rofl:Electronics and the internet are just new things that the market is still adapting to.

Look at the timeline of information encapsulation and note that every single one of these is a method of recording information for distribution:

Hand copied books - ludicrously expensive, being nothing but a scribe was a well paid profession.
printed books - much cheaper, but still expensive, few homes had any, only the weathly had a "library"
recorded music/spoken word (wax cylinders) - very expensive, specialized machinery required to perform it, and to produce copies
recorded video (reel to reel) - see above
recorded video with audio (reel to reel) - see above

I'll skip the description of all of the intervening formats from laserdisc (I own several!) to Blu-Ray here, but you get the idea.
Throw in an honorable mention for mp3s and audio/video encoding, and ebooks. Add the internet and watch the bottom follow out of the information encapsulation market.

You'll notice that with each step, the cost of producing copies goes down.

Naturally, artistic works, such as movies, music and books still have value, but due to technological advancements, the value of the recordings have progressively gone down with no end in sight.

What we're seeing these days with DRM, lawsuits, the DMCA, etc. is an attempt by those with a vested interest in selling things comprised mostly of what in this day and age is artificial scarcity to preserve the viability of nearly obsolete business models by criminalizing any attempt to cut out the middle man. Nothing more.

To me, their efforts appear no more sane than saying we should all still be paying scribes to copy books for us by hand, and getting fined or thrown in jail for attempting to create a printing press.

It's obvious to anyone with a lick of common sense that all the laws we have protecting Intellectual (Imaginary) Property were created not in the public interest, but for the sole purpose of attempting to maintain the profitability of some outmoded business models.

While I disagree with all of their efforts philosophically, I don't blame them for trying, but let's just say I wouldn't invest in any industry that relies on artificial scarcity of information. They can subvert the legal system to their advantage all they like, but you can't stop billions of people from doing anything.

RickyMaveety
12-10-2008, 05:12 PM
Electronics and the internet are just new things that the market is still adapting to.

Look at the timeline of information encapsulation and note that every single one of these is a method of recording information for distribution:

Hand copied books - ludicrously expensive, being nothing but a scribe was a well paid profession.
printed books - much cheaper, but still expensive, few homes had any, only the weathly had a "library"
recorded music/spoken word (wax cylinders) - very expensive, specialized machinery required to perform it, and to produce copies
recorded video (reel to reel) - see above
recorded video with audio (reel to reel) - see above

I'll skip the description of all of the intervening formats from laserdisc (I own several!) to Blu-Ray here, but you get the idea.
Throw in an honorable mention for mp3s and audio/video encoding, and ebooks. Add the internet and watch the bottom follow out of the information encapsulation market.

You'll notice that with each step, the cost of producing copies goes down.

Naturally, artistic works, such as movies, music and books still have value, but due to technological advancements, the value of the recordings have progressively gone down with no end in sight.

What we're seeing these days with DRM, lawsuits, the DMCA, etc. is an attempt by those with a vested interest in selling things comprised mostly of what in this day and age is artificial scarcity to preserve the viability of nearly obsolete business models by criminalizing any attempt to cut out the middle man. Nothing more.

To me, their efforts appear no more sane than saying we should all still be paying scribes to copy books for us by hand, and getting fined or thrown in jail for attempting to create a printing press.

It's obvious to anyone with a lick of common sense that all the laws we have protecting Intellectual (Imaginary) Property were created not in the public interest, but for the sole purpose of attempting to maintain the profitability of some outmoded business models.

While I disagree with all of their efforts philosophically, I don't blame them for trying, but let's just say I wouldn't invest in any industry that relies on artificial scarcity of information. They can subvert the legal system to their advantage all they like, but you can't stop billions of people from doing anything.

Keep in mind that it used to be difficult to mass produce copies of any given work. Even if you made a cassette tape of some songs off of several albums, and then copied those tapes, you lost most of the fidelity over time. The music became more and more degraded.

Same thing even back when you had scribes ... it was expensive to employ a scribe and it took one hell of a long time to make each copy.

Now we come to the digital age. And, what do we have ... just an extremely easy way to make flawless copies of books, music, even some artwork, and to distribute them all over the world with a single click.

Of course the legal distribution chain is scared as all hell. What they need to realize is that if they come up with an inexpensive and fairly uniform method of distribution, people will buy into it without resorting to theft.

I like to think that they will eventually come to that conclusion as they see other companies that use that model being successful with it.

However, I don't believe that massive theft through file sharing is a way to create anything except a reactive reflex in the form of tighter DRM restrictions.

cynoclast
12-10-2008, 05:32 PM
Of course the legal distribution chain is scared as all hell. What they need to realize is that if they come up with an inexpensive and fairly uniform method of distribution, people will buy into it without resorting to theft.I'm glad we agree. I deliberately purchased the last album I bought was from amazon because the MP3s were DRM free. Before that, I bought albums from NIN after they ditched their label. Not that I download the rest or anything, I have extremely narrow tastes in music, so for me to seek out something new is unbelievably rare. I consciously and deliberately support business models that steer clear of DRM and embrace modern technology because I want to help it along.
However, I don't believe that massive theft through file sharing is a way to create anything except a reactive reflex in the form of tighter DRM restrictions.But you really need to stop calling copyright infringement stealing/theft. One is literally, infringing upon the owner's sole right to copy something. The other is deliberately and permanently depriving the owner of a piece of physical property. Two, very very different acts.