Right now, Ondrej, as part of Google Summer of Code (GSoC), has been hard at work porting Open Inkpot (http://openinkpot.org/) (a distro of Linux 2.6.x) to the Cybook Gen3. Clearly, work needs to be done to understand how the SD card and the USB port interface to the S3C2410 ARM CPU, but here's a photo of the OI kernel happily running. Note that the Cybook is now showing it's true colors! :D

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14170&stc=1&d=1215465440

Derek

wow, impressive! Or is this like the Windows on the Iliad thing? :)

Wowww! Very Cool! Is it kind of redevelopment on Cybook hardware?

I am expecting this, a open-source kernel and develop environment for Cybook Gen3! By the way how do you plan to continue for the graphics part? You are not considering X-windows, or do you?

Wowww! Very Cool! Is it kind of redevelopment on Cybook hardware?

I am expecting this, a open-source kernel and develop environment for Cybook Gen3! By the way how do you plan to continue for the graphics part? You are not considering X-windows, or do you?

We do (and yes, we also hate bloated monsters, such as KDE or GNOME - there are alternatives).

It's not the redevelopment of hardware, Ondřej just removed the cover to attach the serial console.

I am expecting this, a open-source kernel and develop environment for Cybook Gen3! By the way how do you plan to continue for the graphics part? You are not considering X-windows, or do you?

As far I can tell they are exactly using (planning to use) X:
http://openinkpot.org/roadmap

Would you have any better suggestions available?

BTW: framebuffer is an answer to the hardware part only...

Would you have any better suggestions available? Aenea ported Qtopia 4 to the iLiad, see Nice little "make people curious" message! (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14221). I don't know if this is a viable option without a touchscreen though.

Why Qutopia is better?

/me is pretty bored from all the Qtopia/FBdev/etc suggestions.

If you want to see $your_favorite_gui then go ahead and do it. All source code is available.

Why Qutopia is better? One potential reason is that it is closer to the device (Qt -> framebuffer vs GTK+/Qt/?? -> X11 -> framebuffer), and has been designed specifically for small resource limited devices. Also, the iLiad can run relatively few applications, because the apps it likes were developed 10-15 years ago before computers got fast and APIs got heavy. Going with Qt limits choices too, but there is a selection of small device apps available and they are all more modern (and maintained) than the ones running on the iLiad. If a device is only an ebook reader, then all this may not matter - since all you need is a file manager (?) and an ebook reader (FBReader).

I am following OpenInkpot's progress with interest, and I agree that it opens up the possibility of multiple solutions on top of the same kernel.

One potential reason is that it is closer to the device (Qt -> framebuffer vs GTK+/Qt/?? -> X11 -> framebuffer)


This is meaningless. You can't just count the number of layers and predict ANYTHING.

and has been designed specifically for small resource limited devices.

kdrive - embedded X.org configuration - has been designed specifically for small resource limited devices.

Also, the iLiad can run relatively few applications, because the apps it likes were developed 10-15 years ago before computers got fast and APIs got heavy.

I have no idea why iLiad can run only those apps. It has nothing to do with X.org.

I am following OpenInkpot's progress with interest, and I agree that it opens up the possibility of multiple solutions on top of the same kernel.

Please read about the X.org developments and especially kdrive a bit. Every single person complaining about X.org had NFI about kdrive before I pointed to it.

Damn, people associate X.org with behemothic KDE and GNOME nowadays. I hate it.

Please, please.

One potential reason is that it is closer to the device (Qt -> framebuffer vs GTK+/Qt/?? -> X11 -> framebuffer), and has been designed specifically for small resource limited devices. Also, the iLiad can run relatively few applications, because the apps it likes were developed 10-15 years ago before computers got fast and APIs got heavy. Going with Qt limits choices too, but there is a selection of small device apps available and they are all more modern (and maintained) than the ones running on the iLiad. If a device is only an ebook reader, then all this may not matter - since all you need is a file manager (?) and an ebook reader (FBReader).

I am following OpenInkpot's progress with interest, and I agree that it opens up the possibility of multiple solutions on top of the same kernel.

Enlightenment Foundation Libraries (EFL) works either directly with FrameBuffer, or through X11, QT, QTopia, DirectFB, OpenGL, etc. That gives a pretty decent set of widgets and canvas for lightweight windows management. Given that many of the older devices have 64MB to play with, lightweight is better.

One of the OI people has thrown together a bare-bones library bookshelf called MadShelf, I believe using EFL, and it may well turn out to be the library manager. But from what I can see, it's still early stages.

Derek

Wowww! Very Cool! Is it kind of redevelopment on Cybook hardware?

I am expecting this, a open-source kernel and develop environment for Cybook Gen3! By the way how do you plan to continue for the graphics part? You are not considering X-windows, or do you?


Nano-X and Nano-GTK are both lightweight. So X-Windows has always been a viable option.

Derek

Nano-X and Nano-GTK are both lightweight. So X-Windows has always been a viable option.

Derek

Nano-GTK is more like Qtopia, but Nano-X is lightweight X11 implementation - you're right.

However, as LunohoD measured, font rendering in Nano-X is way slower than kdrive + freetype. kdrive is quite fast.

wow, impressive! Or is this like the Windows on the Iliad thing? :)

Pieter,

This is going to be a complete replacement of the OS. (Okay, the Cybook already runs Linux - my older version runs 2.4.x and the newer versions should be running 2.6.x.) OI will be 2.6.x-based and will have the feature that it *IS* completely open-source for all supported devices. That means Sony, Hanlin Jinke, Netronix, Iliad and all the rest of the e-ink readers should, eventually, get the same version. And the distro will include the library manager (whichever is developed) and the ebook reading app (FBReader right now - but maybe in a year or two something else could come along.). Now, as with the iLiad, the open-source nature of OI will allow developers to create other apps. (And if you want a calendar app for the Cybook, why aren't you developing one??? :) :) :) )

Derek

Nano-GTK is more like Qtopia, but Nano-X is lightweight X11 implementation - you're right.

However, as LunohoD measured, font rendering in Nano-X is way slower than kdrive + freetype. kdrive is quite fast.


Granted. I was just pointing out that X-Windows is not unreasonable for an embedded device. :)

Derek

Enlightenment. Man I haven't used that windows manager in ages. Back in the day when the only developer for the WM was rasterman. I pretty much stopped using it when he stopped developing it.

Have you looked into BlackBox (http://blackboxwm.sourceforge.net/) not as nice as Enlightenment, but it is very light weight. I was very skeptical about this WM when it first came out but it has proven itself. Over the years is has built a large community as well as widgets for the BB.

=X=

Enlightenment. Man I haven't used that windows manager in ages. Back in the day when the only developer for the WM was rasterman. I pretty much stopped using it when he stopped developing it.

Have you looked into BlackBox (http://blackboxwm.sourceforge.net/) not as nice as Enlightenment, but it is very light weight. I was very skeptical about this WM when it first came out but it has proven itself. Over the years is has built a large community as well as widgets for the BB.

=X=

Oh, no! We never looked at BlackBox! You're right! We'll shut down the project immediately because we are clueless idiots who use abandoned software (despite the high volume of activity in the E mailing list).

P.S.: do you know the difference between graphical toolkit and window manager?

We do (and yes, we also hate bloated monsters, such as KDE or GNOME - there are alternatives).

It's not the redevelopment of hardware, Ondřej just removed the cover to attach the serial console.

Yes I know the difference between a WM and graphical tool kits. But your conversions are also talking about window managers as well.

This is going to be a complete replacement of the OS.

And the distro will include the library manager (whichever is developed) and the ebook reading app (FBReader right now - but maybe in a year or two something else could come along.).

So what exactly is the advantage of this? Will it support any DRM formats? My understanding is the FBReader doesn't support any DRM at this time.

Why will OI be better than the software that Bookeen/Astak/Sony provides?

BOb

So what exactly is the advantage of this? Will it support any DRM formats? My understanding is the FBReader doesn't support any DRM at this time.

Why will OI be better than the software that Bookeen/Astak/Sony provides?

BOb

I don't think that OI, the operating system, will be necessarily *better*. Rather, it will be portable across the various e-ink platforms. Thus, any OI app that runs on, say, the Sony PRS-505, will also run on the iLiad, the Jinke V3, the Cybook, the Kindle and the Astak models - and maybe even the Readius when it comes out.

Also, there is hope that we can get it set up to allow OI to run 'from SD card', which means the original firmware will still be present on the device. This has not yet been implemented, but work is ongoing in that area, if I understand right. This latter means that you can own a Kindle and read Kindle DRM ebooks *AND* read non-DRM eReader ebooks without having to buy a second ebook reader or go through the conversion process. Think of the joy of being able to open a CHM ebook on your iLiad, Cybook or Readius, all without having to extract, re-format and convert!

Derek

Think of the joy of being able to open a CHM ebook on your iLiad, Cybook or Readius, all without having to extract, re-format and convert!

Derek

To be fair, if you install FBReader, you already can read such books on the iLiad.

Man take a chill pill did you forget you meds. Now I may be calling you something else but I was not calling you an idiot. It was just a suggestion.
Secondly my comment was directed to delphidb96 not to you so if you take offense make sure people are talking to you first.

And yes I know the difference between a WM and graphical tool kits. But your conversions are also talking about window managers as well.

Yes, I think dottedmag understands that about the windows manager.

You have to understand that dottedmag is far more involved with the actual development than I am. I got involved simply because I have both a Cybook and an EB-100 and I wanted to see if they were hardware identical - they are. I'm, at this point, more of a rah-rah-rah cheerleader than a hard-core programmer on the OI project. I hope to become more involved in the programming end.

But you have to remember that much of this has been debated, ad nauseum, over at OI and the progress has reached the point where to re-open the debate would entail backing-down from much of what is already working on the V3. And given the wide range of backgrounds, I'm sure the initial debates over what to use were occasionally quite acrimonius.

So, if you would rather use QTopia or BlackBox, then please feel free to snag a V3, the OI source as it stands, and start developing an alternative graphical tool kit and window manager. As OI is open-source, I'm sure there will be others who will gladly embrace your work. :)

Derek

To be fair, if you install FBReader, you already can read such books on the iLiad.

So I've been told elsewhere. Of course, as I do NOT own an iLiad, I want this same capability on my Cybook and EB-100! :D (Although I must admit that most of the chm'd Linux technical books I've converted to Mobi do read okay. But it's such a hassle to extract and re-format. :( )

Derek

First of let me apologize to you and dottedmag. I obviously struck a nerve with both of you without any mal intent on my behalf. I just saw this post and gave my unsolicited 2 cents. I was not aware I was rehashing some hot debates.

Much has changed since my earlier days when I heavily participated with the Linux development community, before new comers where always welcomed. I will refrain from taking any more of your time.

=X=

First of let me apologize to you and dottedmag. I obviously struck a nerve with both of you without any mal intent on my behalf. I just saw this post and gave my unsolicited 2 cents. I was not aware I was rehashing some hot debates.

Much has changed since my earlier days when I heavily participated with the Linux development community, before new comers where always welcomed. I will refrain from taking any more of your time.

=X=

=X=.

I'm *NOT* angry with you. Far from it. And I think that MR is one of the best places to ask questions and toss in one's $0.02. :D

When I urged you to 'have at it' with QTopia or BlackBox, I meant it. It may be that you'll come up with a better toolkit for ARM devices than already exists in that area. If you don't want to, or don't have the time, I believe someone else will rise to the challenge. After all, this is what started OI in the first place. :)

Derek

Some ideas:
For my point of view it is not necessary to have any windows manager, neither blackbox nor enlightenment. The program that is useful for a ebook reader, for example a library browser, reader, pdf or so, this can all be implemented without any libs from a windows manager.

Apart from the X there is also the possibility to make the application purely in framebuffer. Some GUI interface to framebuffer is demonstrated already, especially these two, looks quite interesting:
http://home.comcast.net/~fbui/
http://home.comcast.net/~fbui/fwe.html
The FBUI works only on Kernel 2.6.9. I think it would be very tedious to implement programs based on X.

Anyway Derek, it is really a brilliant idea. Highly respect!

Some ideas:
For my point of view it is not necessary to have any windows manager, neither blackbox nor enlightenment. The program that is useful for a ebook reader, for example a library browser, reader, pdf or so, this can all be implemented without any libs from a windows manager.

Apart from the X there is also the possibility to make the application purely in framebuffer. Some GUI interface to framebuffer is demonstrated already, especially these two, looks quite interesting:
http://home.comcast.net/~fbui/
http://home.comcast.net/~fbui/fwe.html
The FBUI works only on Kernel 2.6.9. I think it would be very tedious to implement programs based on X.

Anyway Derek, it is really a brilliant idea. Highly respect!

Hanselda,

Don't respect me! :) I'm just one of the fringe people at OI. But feel free to pass your respects onto dottedmag, ondra, wenjie, lunohod and the rest of the gang! :D

Derek

hello, being very interested in the above operations to the EINK machine you have made. can you open the source and the instructions including the hardware interface(RS232->X). i want to follow your instructions to do same operations like you.

hello, being very interested in the above operations to the EINK machine you have made. can you open the source and the instructions including the hardware interface(RS232->X). There is a lot of information on the OpenInkpot Trac (http://openinkpot.org/), and OpenInkpot has a mailing list there.

I have seen the openinkprot before, which didn't provide intructions with more details for these operations. i should directly ask the author to ask for help.

I have seen the openinkprot before, which didn't provide intructions with more details for these operations. i should directly ask the author to ask for help.

Yunhaid,

Which e-ink reader do you have? Different models have different rs232 connection points.

Derek

i have three eink books as iliad, hanlin v3, starebook. and starebook is same as the machine you have done. i want to follow your instructions to do same things as you have made. thanks a lot.

Yo folks,

Thought you folks would like to know there is a new blog post up on http://blog.openinkpot.org/ regarding our GSoC students.

Please read (http://blog.openinkpot.org/2008/07/gsoc-update.html), and leave a few encouraging comments for our hardworking students! :D

Is it legal to delete the original firmware, and use an open source alternative?

Will OpenInkpot run on any device, or just on specific devices?

I like the idea very much! Does it mean that we can achieve more features on a device than the official features? For example, if a device does not support X file format originally, but we install OpenInkpot, can we read the X file format, despite that the device doesn't support it officially?

Is it legal to delete the original firmware, and use an open source alternative?

It's fully legal. However, Jinke and any other manufacturers (Bookeen, Sony etc) can refuse to support/repair your device (in theory).


Will OpenInkpot run on any device, or just on specific devices?

That's the idea :) But realistically, we are restricted to hardware our developers have access to. (which is pretty much most of the eink devices on the market at the moment, apart from the Iliad & the Netronix/Astak range)


I like the idea very much! Does it mean that we can achieve more features on a device than the official features? For example, if a device does not support X file format originally, but we install OpenInkpot, can we read the X file format, despite that the device doesn't support it officially?

Exactly! If you wanted support for say postscript, or ODF (why would you? :P), you can in theory write a plugin to add support for that :)

Is it legal to delete the original firmware, and use an open source alternative?

Using opensource firmware is legal. In fact, the original Jinke firmware is illegal! It is violating the GNU GPL license. :angry:

Using opensource firmware is legal. In fact, the original Jinke firmware is illegal! It is violating the GNU GPL license. :angry:

Jinke is not alone (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24509) in this... :(