I started another thread in a different forum but have abandoned it because I decided it was too egocentric - all about what "I" wanted. So I am taking another approach and posting here.

I have recently been enamored of determining the mother of all lists of "classics" and putting them all in my Sony Reader. Loading the Harvard Classics was a great start. I have also combed through other well-regarded lists of "classics", "great books", "western canon", etc. I generated a merged list of all these things.

From that merged list, one can sift and sort in various ways.

Here is my first short list. This list is all the items from my huge list that are NOT available on MobileRead, yet ARE available from Project Gutenberg or other good sources.

These are not necessarily my favorites - simply things that should be here to round out what we can. For anybody looking for a book to try to create, this is a good place to start.

Aristophanes - Clouds
Bennett, Arnold - The Old Wives' Tale
Calderón de la Barca - Life Is a Dream
Chekhov, Anton - The Cherry Orchard (in Plays, Second Series)
Chekhov, Anton - The Seagull
Chekhov, Anton - The Three Sisters (in Plays, Second Series)
Erasmus, Desiderius - The Praise of Folly
Goldsmith, Oliver - The Vicar of Wakefield
Herodotus - Histories
Huygens - Treatise on Light
Irving, Washington - Rip Van Winkle (in The Sketch-Book of Geoffrey Crayon)
Johnson, Samuel - A Grammar of the English Tongue
Nash, Thomas - The Unfortunate Traveller
Pushkin, Alexander - Eugene Onegin
Sanger, Margaret - The Pivot of Civilization
Schopenhauer - Studies in Pessimism
Strindberg, August - Miss Julie (in Plays, Second Series)
Tacitus - Agricola
Thucydides - The History of the Peloponnesian War
Wollstonecraft, Mary - A Vindication of the Rights of Women

I'd be willing to take on Rip Van Winkle. I mean, the Sketch Book of Geoffrey Crayon.

I just need to turn it into a prc ... right??

Here is another list. It is really more for the Gutenbergers - in that there is nothing WE can really do about it. This is a list of things that are missing from PG that really ought to be there.

I obtained this list by checking my huge merged list against PG. All of these authors are already well represented within PG, yet these particular works are missing. In many cases they are a missing part of a set. In other cases, the work identified is actually more famous or more seminal than other works that PG does have.

If anybody is lurking here from PG, I would think working on these should be a relatively high priority. This list is "only" 130 entries - and given the bazillions of files they already have, this is an amazingly short "to do" list. Relatively speaking!

Aquinas, Thomas - Treatise on Law
Bergson - An Introduction to Metaphysics
Bergson - Creative Evolution
Bergson - Matter and Memory
Bergson - The Two Sources of Morality and Religion
Bergson - Time and Free Will
Boswell, James - Boswell's London Journal: 1762-1763
Cather, Willa - A Lost Lady
Cather, Willa - Death Comes for the Archbishop
Chekhov, Anton - The Kiss
Cicero - Academics
Cicero - On Duties
Cicero - On the Ends of Good and Evil
Cicero - On the Nature of the Gods
Cicero - Orations Against Catiline
Cicero - Philippics
Cicero - Stoic Paradoxes
Cicero - The Laws
Cicero - The Republic
Cicero - Tusculan Disputations
Crane, Stephen - The Blue Hotel
Dante - On Monarchy
Dante - The New Life
Descartes - Objections Against the Meditations and Replies
Descartes - The Geometry
Dewey - Experience and Education
Dewey - Experience and Nature
Dewey - How We Think
Dewey - Logic: The Theory of Inquiry
Donne, John - A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning
Dreiser, Theodore - An American Tragedy
Einstein - On the Method of Theoretical Physics
Einstein - The Evolution of Physics
Einstein - The Meaning of Relativity
Eliot, T. S. - In The Sacred Wood
Eliot, T. S. - Tradition and Individual Talent
Emerson, Ralph Waldo - Journal
Erasmus, Desiderius - De Copia Verborum
Erasmus, Desiderius - De Ratione Studii
Faraday - Experimental Researches in Electricity
Flaubert, Gustave - A Sentimental Education
Ford, Ford Madox - Parade's End
Freud, Sigmund - Civilization and Its Discontents
Freud, Sigmund - New Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis
Freud, Sigmund - The Future of an Illusion
Glasgow, Ellen - Barren Ground
Glasgow, Ellen - Vein of Iron
Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von - Elective Affinities
Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von - Poetry and Truth
Gogol, Nikolay - The Diary of a Madman
Goncharov, Ivan - Oblomovka
Gorky, Maxim - The Artamonov Business
Haywood, Eliza - Love in Excess
Hodgson, William Hope - The House on the Borderland
Huizinga - The Waning of the Middle Ages
Hume - History of England
James, William - Essays in Radical Empiricism
James, William - The Principles of Psychology
Johnson, Samuel - Dictionary
Joyce, James - Finnegan's Wake
Kafka, Franz - Amerika
Kafka, Franz - The Castle
Kant, Immanuel - Perpetual Peace
Kant, Immanuel - Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics
Kant, Immanuel - The Science of Right
Keynes - The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money
Lagerlöf, Selma - Gösta Berling's Saga
LeFanu, Joseph Sheridan - In a Glass Darkly (5 stories)
Leibniz - Discourse on Metaphysics
Leibniz - Monadology
Leibniz - New Essays Concerning Human Understanding
Lewis, Sinclair - Arrowsmith
Luther - Three Treatises
Marx and Engels - Capital
Maupassant, Guy de - Two Friends
Maupassant, Guy de - Walter Schnaffs' Adventure
Mill, John Stuart - A System of Logic
Moliere - Don Juan
Moliere - The Critique of the School for Wives
Moliere - The Would-Be Gentleman
More, Sir Thomas - Epigrammata
Newton - Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy
Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm - On the Genealogy of Morality
O'Neill, Eugene - Desire Under the Elms
O'Neill, Eugene - Mourning Becomes Electra
O'Neill, Eugene - Strange Interlude
O'Neill, Eugene - The Iceman Cometh
Ovid - Art of Love
Plautus - Pseudolus
Pliny - Historia Naturalis
Plutarch - Lycurgus and Solon
Plutarch - Moralia
Poincare - Science and Hypothesis or Method
Pope, Alexander - (Horatian) Satires
Racine, Jean - Andromache
Racine, Jean - Berenice
Rousseau, Jean-Jacques - Julie; or the New Eloise
Rousseau, Jean-Jacques - On Political Economy
Rousseau, Jean-Jacques - Reveries of a Solitary Walker
Rousseau, Jean-Jacques - The Social Contract
Russell, Bertrand - An Inquiry into Meaning and Truth
Russell, Bertrand - Human Knowledge, Its Scope and Limits
Saki - The Open Window
Santayana - Persons and Places
Santayana - Skepticism and Animal Faith
Saxo Grammaticus - Gesta Danorum, Books 10-16 (medieval)
Schiller - On Naive and Sentimental Poetry
Shaw, George Bernard - Saint Joan
Shaw, George Bernard - Widower's Houses
Smollett, Tobias George - Humphrey Clinker
St. Augustine - On the Teacher
Stein, Gertrude - The Autobiography of Alice B Toklas
Stein, Gertrude - The Making of Americans
Stephens, James - The Charwoman's Daughter
Strindberg, August - By the Open Sea
Strindberg, August - The People of Hemsö
Strindberg, August - The Red Room
Tolstoy, Leo - Ivan the Fool
Tolstoy, Leo - What is Art?
Toynbee - A Study of History
Toynbee - Civilization on Trial
Turgenev, Ivan - King Lear of the Steppes
Whitehead - Adventures of Ideas
Whitehead - An Introduction to Mathematics
Whitehead - Science and the Modern World
Whitehead - The Aims of Education and Other Essays
Zola, Émile - Drunkard
Zola, Émile - La Bête Humaine
Zola, Émile - Nana
Zola, Émile - Thérèse Raquin

And now - the most curious list of all. Here is a short list of titles that is on almost everybody's short list of great works. None of these are at PG. Even curiouser, none of these authors are even represented.

Another thing for the Gutenbergers to contemplate.

Baudelaire, Charles - The Flowers of Evil
Bentham - Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation
Bentham - Theory of Fictions
Euclid - Elements
Galileo - Concerning the Two New Sciences
Galileo - Starry Messenger (sidereus nuntius?)
Hegel - The Philosophy of Right
Heisenberg - Physics and Philosophy
Hippocrates - Hippocratic Writings
Juvenal - Satires
Kepler - Astronomia Nova
Kepler - Epitome of Copernican Astronomy
Kepler - The Harmonies of the World
Kierkegaard, Søren - Fear and Trembling
Kierkegaard, Søren - The Sickness unto Death
Laclos, Pierre Choderlos de - Dangerous Liaisons
Maritain - Art and Scholasticism
Maritain - The Degrees of Knowledge
Maritain - The Rights of Man and Natural Law
Maritain - True Humanism
Sartre - Being and Nothingness
Sartre - Nausea
Sartre - No Exit
Solzhenitsyn - Cancer Ward
Solzhenitsyn - The First Circle

Finally, a disclaimer. I was able to automate some of this, but there was still a lot of handwork and eyeballing. So while "99%" accurate, there are bound to be a few errors or oversights on these lists. But you will at least get the idea.

I've started working on the Sketchbook .... so aside from reformatting it and reading through it to make certain there are no errors ... is there anything else I need to do??

I don't know about PRC or any other format - I need it in LRF. I haven't looked at it at all, so don't know for sure, but I think there are multiple short stories or verses in there. It would then need a TOC of links.

And now - the most curious list of all. Here is a short list of titles that is on almost everybody's short list of great works. None of these are at PG. Even curiouser, none of these authors are even represented.

Another thing for the Gutenbergers to contemplate.

Baudelaire, Charles - The Flowers of Evil
Bentham - Introduction to the Principles of Morals and Legislation
Bentham - Theory of Fictions
Euclid - Elements
Galileo - Concerning the Two New Sciences
Galileo - Starry Messenger (sidereus nuntius?)
Hegel - The Philosophy of Right
Heisenberg - Physics and Philosophy
Hippocrates - Hippocratic Writings
Juvenal - Satires
Kepler - Astronomia Nova
Kepler - Epitome of Copernican Astronomy
Kepler - The Harmonies of the World
Kierkegaard, Søren - Fear and Trembling
Kierkegaard, Søren - The Sickness unto Death
Laclos, Pierre Choderlos de - Dangerous Liaisons
Maritain - Art and Scholasticism
Maritain - The Degrees of Knowledge
Maritain - The Rights of Man and Natural Law
Maritain - True Humanism
Sartre - Being and Nothingness
Sartre - Nausea
Sartre - No Exit
Solzhenitsyn - Cancer Ward
Solzhenitsyn - The First Circle

Errr... Not all of these are public domain.

It is reasonable to expect to find works by Baudelaire, Bentham, Euclid, Galileo, Hegel, Hippocrates, Juvenal, Kepler, Kierkegaard, and Laclos in some online archive such as Project Gutenberg. Note that although the original works may be out of copyright, English translations might still be copyrighted, though.

As for the others:

Sartre died in 1980. Being & Nothingness was published in 1943; Nausea in 1938; and No Exit in 1944.
Jacques Maritain died in 1973. Art & Scholasticism was published in 1947; The Degrees of Knowledge in 1959; The Rights of Man & Natural Law in 1943; and True Humanism in 1941. I did find a copy of Art & Scholasticism at http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/art.htm
Heisenberg died in 1976. Physics and Philosophy was published in 1958.
And, I believe that Solzhenitsyn is still living.


Another thing for the Gutenbergers to contemplate.

You, too, can be a Gutenberger!

I don't know about PRC or any other format - I need it in LRF. I haven't looked at it at all, so don't know for sure, but I think there are multiple short stories or verses in there. It would then need a TOC of links.

Well, then someone is going to need to tell me what I'm going to need to go from PRC to LRF, because I don't have a Sony and don't plan to get one.

However, I can and will get it from txt into prc. I can also produce a TOC, but again .... I have no idea (since I have only created PRC) how to get it into the format that you specifically want.

I know HarryT has a primer somewhere around but I can't find it. I'll keep looking.

Well, then someone is going to need to tell me what I'm going to need to go from PRC to LRF, because I don't have a Sony and don't plan to get one.

However, I can and will get it from txt into prc. I can also produce a TOC, but again .... I have no idea (since I have only created PRC) how to get it into the format that you specifically want.

Ricky:

The workflow I've been using is described at http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=198344&postcount=4 I used Harry T's two excellent guides to Book Designer and MobiPocket Creator, though I did discover that there are a few tips in the book building thread that one needs to know about.

Do you know what I want as an ebook?

Idiot's Guide to Anthropophagy


P.S. This was a joke.

Do you know what I want as an ebook?

Idiot's Guide to Anthropophagy


P.S. This was a joke. But I just *had* to go look up the word to make sure I knew what you meant. My "word origins" vocabulary training is a bit rusty, so I didn't trust my own disection.

My fantasy - if I was Bill Gates I would buy up the copyright to a set of current text books on every school/college/university subject in (say) four major languages, and then release them online for free in a format (rtf?) that people in even the poorest communities all over the world would be able to access.

(RCR hums the coca-cola theme tune: "I'd like to teach the world to sing...")

Mighty big word for such a little puppy but I can see why you're into it (I had to look it up myself).

Kierkegaard is largely unavailable because the translations are too recent. Sartre didn't die till 1980, so is still in copyright (with a couple of creative commons exceptions). Bertrand Russell survived until 1970, so all his work is in copyright, except for the pre-1923 works, which are available in the USA only.

Solzhenitsyn is also in copyright everywhere. And his translators also hold copyright in their translations. Ditto Maritain.

I don't see the point of listing things that are not in the public domain. And a moment's googling, or a wikipedia search, will usually establish the author or translator's death date quite easily.

The Baudelaire poems are available in French. But most of the Fleurs du Mal translations are in copyright, or bad, or both.
The Zola is readily available in French (try the Gallica site). The English translations that are in the public domain are mainly the Victorian ones by Vizetelly. They are awful: very stilted and dull.
Les Liaisons Dangereuses only has recent translations, still in copyright.
The Euclid would be very difficult to format, because of the diagrams. Plays are also often troublesome.

Do you know what I want as an ebook?

Idiot's Guide to Anthropophagy


P.S. This was a joke.

I'm probably going to have to write it myself. Would anyone like to help me with the research?

There is a sticky thread to request books. For the last year or longer this has worked well.

Ted, you have demonstrated that you are adept at extracting data from Gutenberg and making lists and indexes. There is a lot of effort to creating an ebook unless you follow the mechanical approach employed by manybooks. In fact almost all of the files at Gutenberg are currently available in LRF format at manybooks.

Count me in Nate. It sounds like a great project and we have so much source material here in the DC area.

There are several Kindle books (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=Anthropophagy&tag=lexico&index=blended&link%5Fcode=qs) on the subject but no "Idiots Guide" Or "Dummies" versions that I can see.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If something is at PG and not here, then the best way to get it here is to "do it yourself". It's really NOT difficult - I've written tutorials explaining one way of doing it (there are many others) here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313) and here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17914).

Most of the books here have been uploaded by a small number of people - it would be great to expand the number of contributors to our book collection. Please do "have a go"!

Do you know what I want as an ebook?

Idiot's Guide to Anthropophagy
<snicker>

I'm probably going to have to write it myself. Would anyone like to help me with the research?
note to self : add Nate to the list of people from whom never to accept an invitation "for a meal".

Count me in Nate. It sounds like a great project and we have so much source material here in the DC area.
note to self : add RWood to the list as well.

Well, then someone is going to need to tell me what I'm going to need to go from PRC to LRF, because I don't have a Sony and don't plan to get one.

However, I can and will get it from txt into prc. I can also produce a TOC, but again .... I have no idea (since I have only created PRC) how to get it into the format that you specifically want.
What you do is use Book Designer (also include the Book Cleaner files as well) to make the LRF. Rgen follow HarryT's directions on how to then turn it into a PRC. Then download and install the Mobitools, Mobi2IMP and EBook Publisher so you can also turn it into IMP for the eBookWise 1150 and 1200.

Sounds more of a task then it actually is.

That's one of the frustrating things about living in the U.S. It has the longest copyright length for existing works of anywhere in the world (life + 95 years). There are works recently gone into the public domain in (life + 50) countries that I would be willing to do the work on, but I'm legally bound to do nothing on them for the rest of my life...

Coming soon to public domain in life + 50 countries.

James Branch Cabell (Jan 1, 2009)
Henry Kuttner (Jan 1, 2009)
Raymond Chandler (Jan 1, 2010)
Lester Dent (80% of the Doc Savages written)
(Jan 1, 2010)
Ernest Hemmingway (Jan 1, 2012)

Ricky:

The workflow I've been using is described at http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=198344&postcount=4 I used Harry T's two excellent guides to Book Designer and MobiPocket Creator, though I did discover that there are a few tips in the book building thread that one needs to know about.

I'm having no problem with MobiPocket creator. I've done a few of the Beatrix Potter books using that, although I have not posted them here because I think they are already posted ... just in a form and format that I do not like very much (color images do not display very well).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If something is at PG and not here, then the best way to get it here is to "do it yourself". It's really NOT difficult - I've written tutorials explaining one way of doing it (there are many others) here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10313) and here (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17914).

Most of the books here have been uploaded by a small number of people - it would be great to expand the number of contributors to our book collection. Please do "have a go"!

I would agree. I've written a few macros that allow me to reformat a PG book in a matter of a few seconds. I think what is going to take the time is proofreading each book to make certain the PG people didn't make any errors.

Bye the bye, the Laurence Donovan (Died 1950) Doc Savages are available at P.G. Australia, should someone in the life + 50 world like to convert them to MobileRead formats...(I can't...)

What you do is use Book Designer (also include the Book Cleaner files as well) to make the LRF. Rgen follow HarryT's directions on how to then turn it into a PRC. Then download and install the Mobitools, Mobi2IMP and EBook Publisher so you can also turn it into IMP for the eBookWise 1150 and 1200.

Sounds more of a task then it actually is.

I'm curious as to whether Book Designer will take HTML. I'm finding it very easy to take the txt files and put them into HTML, and from there through Mobipocket Creator into prc.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other, I suppose.

I'm curious as to whether Book Designer will take HTML. I'm finding it very easy to take the txt files and put them into HTML, and from there through Mobipocket Creator into prc.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other, I suppose.
I have used HTML files in BookDEsigner although I feel that I have greater control when using a DOC or RTF as the source file.

There are several schools of thought here. One favors doing a majority of the editing in BD while I am in the other school that does the majority of editing outside of BD.

I will add graphics to the ebook in BD. I currently create the Mobi and IMP files from BD although I am starting to learn the other approach.

I don't see the point of listing things that are not in the public domain. And a moment's googling, or a wikipedia search, will usually establish the author or translator's death date quite easily.


Sorry if I don't have the time or capability to do a complete and thorough job. But I posted the "work in progress" that I had done - hoping it might shed SOME light on things. I thought Elsi's response was helpful and in the spirit of what I was trying to do.

And for all I know, some of these may be in ill-repute or otherwise not wanted by anybody. I was hoping the rest of you could provide your various perspectives and expertise and whittle this down into an actual "want list".

Do you know what I want as an ebook?

Idiot's Guide to Anthropophagy


P.S. This was a joke.
How about a copy of "To Serve Man"???

Hint: It's a cookbook... :eek:

Xenophon

How about a copy of "To Serve Man"???

Hint: It's a cookbook... :eek:

Xenophon
but, Xenophon, is it available as an e-book ??

How about a copy of "To Serve Man"???

Hint: It's a cookbook... :eek:

Xenophon

I was going to do a list of books, and that was on it. Another title would have been "Selected Recipes of the Sierra Nevadas" by George Donner. Also "The Uruguayan Air Force Cookbook". But then I decided to go for the simple and obscure. That's how my sense of humor works. Plus, some of the titles were unfair.

I was going to do a list of books, and that was on it. Another title would have been "Selected Recipes of the Sierra Nevadas" by George Donner. Also "The Uruguayan Air Force Cookbook". But then I decided to go for the simple and obscure. That's how my sense of humor works. Plus, some of the titles were unfair.

Nah .... I think having a book by Alfred Packer would go further than one by George Donner. (This despite the fact that his family's name was the one associated with the ill-fated group. As I recall, he was not one of the people actually accused of cannibalism.)

There are works recently gone into the public domain in (life + 50) countries that I would be willing to do the work on, but I'm legally bound to do nothing on them for the rest of my life...

Coming soon to public domain in life + 50 countries.

James Branch Cabell (Jan 1, 2009)
Such as? An awful lot of Cabell is already available.


Henry Kuttner (Jan 1, 2009)
A fair bit of Kuttner, too. I have _the Dark World_, _The Time Axis_, _The Valley of the Flame_, and _The Creature from Beyond Infinity_ here.


Lester Dent (80% of the Doc Savages written)
(Jan 1, 2010)
They used to be available. So did The Shadow. I think I have them all.


Raymond Chandler (Jan 1, 2010)
Ernest Hemmingway (Jan 1, 2012)
It would be nice to see these folks, however.
______
Dennis

oh, Raymond Chandler, yes please !!!

A note about Doc Savage:

They are not in the public domain. The files had previously been hosted on PG Australia because the admin had turned a blind eye.

A note about Doc Savage:

They are not in the public domain. The files had previously been hosted on PG Australia because the admin had turned a blind eye.


Nate, this brings in a piece of copyright law that I'm not fully knowledgeable about. How do works for hire copyright length get set? Particularly in a life + 50 country? Since Laurence Donovan died in 1950, life + 50 should be 2000 (i.e.public domain in a life + 50 country). How is that being overridden? (anybody else who knows the answer, please chime in.) RSE

Nate, this brings in a piece of copyright law that I'm not fully knowledgeable about. How do works for hire copyright length get set? Particularly in a life + 50 country? Since Laurence Donovan died in 1950, life + 50 should be 2000 (i.e.public domain in a life + 50 country). How is that being overridden? (anybody else who knows the answer, please chime in.) RSE

There are different rules when an entity (corporation, etc) owns a copyright. In this case it is based on the date the item was first published. From the US Government copyright FAQ:

For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

Other countries may be different.

BOb

There are different rules when an entity (corporation, etc) owns a copyright. In this case it is based on the date the item was first published. From the US Government copyright FAQ:

For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

Other countries may be different.

BOb


Thanks mucho, PilotBOb. The Mickey Mouse act of the late 90's suddenly became clear! 1999 - 70 was 1929, when Talkies first came available in Hollyweird. The pulps were just "collateral damage" for saving the copyrights on all the Talkies that hadn't accidentally fallen into the public domain due to their renewals not being properly filed....

Nate, this brings in a piece of copyright law that I'm not fully knowledgeable about. How do works for hire copyright length get set? Particularly in a life + 50 country? Since Laurence Donovan died in 1950, life + 50 should be 2000 (i.e.public domain in a life + 50 country). How is that being overridden? (anybody else who knows the answer, please chime in.) RSE

I had to go look it up again, and I don't think Commonwealth countries have a work for hire rule. I've found anonymous author rules, but that's not the same thing. Pilotbob is correct on the years.

BTW, not all the Doc Savage novels are work for hire in the US. I know of at least once that Conde Nast, the copyright holder, bought the copyright from an author's widow. I don't think any of the books are work for hire.

I had to go look it up again, and I don't think Commonwealth countries have a work for hire rule. I've found anonymous author rules, but that's not the same thing. Pilotbob is correct on the years.

BTW, not all the Doc Savage novels are work for hire in the US. I know of at least once that Conde Nast, the copyright holder, bought the copyright from an author's widow. I don't think any of the books are work for hire.


Which loops me back to where I started. If a Doc Savage novel was written by author X, what controls the public domain date in a life + 50 country. (I looked at the Canadian law web site, which implied either 50 years after the publication (Psuedonemus works) or author's life + 50 years. Laurence Donovan died in 1950, Harold A. Davis died in 1955, and Lester Dent died in 1959. The others died much later or are currently undetermined.) Are there overriding treaty agreements with the US?

Which loops me back to where I started. If a Doc Savage novel was written by author X, what controls the public domain date in a life + 50 country. (I looked at the Canadian law web site, which implied either 50 years after the publication (Pseudonymous works) or author's life + 50 years. Laurence Donovan died in 1950, Harold A. Davis died in 1955, and Lester Dent died in 1959. The others died much later or are currently undetermined.) Are there overriding treaty agreements with the US?

In Canada, the pd date is the year the author died +51. For example, Laura Ingalls Wilder died in 1957. On 1 January 2008 her works entered the public domain in Canada.

Since Canada is a strict death+50, so the first two are out of copyright in Canada right now. We can host their works here at MobileRead if someone will upload it. The third author's work will become pd on 1 January, 2010.

Australia is the same except for the thirds author. The Dent works have a copyright of death+70 because of a 2006 treaty signed with the USA.

P.S. Just because the work is still in copyright in the US doesn't mean it is in other countries.

In Canada, the pd date is the year the author died +51. For example, Laura Ingalls Wilder died in 1957. On 1 January 2008 her works entered the public domain in Canada.

Since Canada is a strict death+50, so the first two are out of copyright in Canada right now. We can host their works here at MobileRead if someone will upload it. The third author's work will become pd on 1 January, 2010.

Australia is the same except for the thirds author. The Dent works have a copyright of death+70 because of a 2006 treaty signed with the USA.

P.S. Just because the work is still in copyright in the US doesn't mean it is in other countries.


Thanks, Nate. I can't do the work, as I live in the land of the Mouse, but my list of Coming Soon is still valid.

Thanks, Nate. I can't do the work, as I live in the land of the Mouse, but my list of Coming Soon is still valid.
That's actually an interesting question.

You live in the US, where a work is still in copyright. It's out of copyright elsewhere, and you find an electronic copy, which you massage into a form usable by MobileRead visitors. You upload it for posting, and it gets stored on a server where the copyright has expired and it's a legal download.

How much trouble can you be in for having done the conversion? And who would be likely to go after you for having done it?

I'd be more worried about possible dangers to MobileRead for accepting work from from me in that case than I'd be about getting in trouble for doing it.

Copyright infringement suits presume damage in the form of lost revenues from the infringement, and take time and cost money to prosecute. Someone would have to see real potential losses to bother.

I'm not sure I'd let living in the US deter me from doing the work.
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Dennis

That's actually an interesting question.

You live in the US, where a work is still in copyright. It's out of copyright elsewhere, and you find an electronic copy, which you massage into a form usable by MobileRead visitors. You upload it for posting, and it gets stored on a server where the copyright has expired and it's a legal download.

How much trouble can you be in for having done the conversion? And who would be likely to go after you for having done it?

I'd be more worried about possible dangers to MobileRead for accepting work from from me in that case than I'd be about getting in trouble for doing it.

Copyright infringement suits presume damage in the form of lost revenues from the infringement, and take time and cost money to prosecute. Someone would have to see real potential losses to bother.

I'm not sure I'd let living in the US deter me from doing the work.
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Dennis

I can give you one example. We could legally host "Gone With the Wind" because the author died more than 50 years ago. But we won't. There is even a source file (http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200161.txt) at PG Australia to work from.

One of the moderators has a legal copy, but has decided not to post it because the Mitchell estate has threatened other websites (even though those other sites were not breaking any laws).

Copyright infringement suits presume damage in the form of lost revenues from the infringement, and take time and cost money to prosecute. Someone would have to see real potential losses to bother.


That was what I thought too, Dennis, when I asked why it mattered that Bookeen hadn't released the GPL sources for the version of Linux running on the Gen3. Nobody's lost any money as a result, so why bother? I am informed by those who claim to know, that "punitive" damages can be awarded even when there is no loss of revenue.

That's actually an interesting question.

You live in the US, where a work is still in copyright. It's out of copyright elsewhere, and you find an electronic copy, which you massage into a form usable by MobileRead visitors. You upload it for posting, and it gets stored on a server where the copyright has expired and it's a legal download.

How much trouble can you be in for having done the conversion? And who would be likely to go after you for having done it?

I'd be more worried about possible dangers to MobileRead for accepting work from from me in that case than I'd be about getting in trouble for doing it.

Copyright infringement suits presume damage in the form of lost revenues from the infringement, and take time and cost money to prosecute. Someone would have to see real potential losses to bother.

I'm not sure I'd let living in the US deter me from doing the work.
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Dennis


Let me answer you hypothetically. If I do the work 1.) In the US, and 2.) as a US citizen, then I am a target for an infringment lawsuit because I infringed the work in the US. As a matter of fact, I'd make an excellent deterrent (Jammie Thompson type) lawsuit target. My Nom De Plume would be on the Mobileread Download. I prefer not to do it for those legal reasons. (Not moral reasons, I see no reason to say it's immoral to violate a life + 95 copyright vis a vis a life + 50 copyright, when the whole purpose of copyright was to be a wasting asset to encourage the creation of new works. Dead people don't create new works.)

Let me answer you hypothetically. If I do the work 1.) In the US, and 2.) as a US citizen, then I am a target for an infringment lawsuit because I infringed the work in the US. As a matter of fact, I'd make an excellent deterrent (Jammie Thompson type) lawsuit target. My Nom De Plume would be on the Mobileread Download. I prefer not to do it for those legal reasons. (Not moral reasons, I see no reason to say it's immoral to violate a life + 95 copyright vis a vis a life + 50 copyright, when the whole purpose of copyright was to be a wasting asset to encourage the creation of new works. Dead people don't create new works.)
That was my assumption.

The question becomes "How likely do you think anyone would be to come after you?" As mentioned, infringement suits take time and cost money, and get brought because someone sees potential losses from the infringement. In the vast majority of stuff offered on MobileRead, I can't see anyone finding it worth the trouble to go after.
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Dennis

That was my assumption.

The question becomes "How likely do you think anyone would be to come after you?" As mentioned, infringement suits take time and cost money, and get brought because someone sees potential losses from the infringement. In the vast majority of stuff offered on MobileRead, I can't see anyone finding it worth the trouble to go after.
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Dennis

Ask Black Mask, or Conde Nast. Where there is a continuing revenue stream involved, there'll be lawyers. If somebody has a few million for the defending lawyers, I suppose we could talk....

What I find interesting is the chilling effect mentioned by Nate. I gather there has been no case law on the subject in Canada so far. (Is Canada a "loser pays" civil legal system?)

That was what I thought too, Dennis, when I asked why it mattered that Bookeen hadn't released the GPL sources for the version of Linux running on the Gen3. Nobody's lost any money as a result, so why bother? I am informed by those who claim to know, that "punitive" damages can be awarded even when there is no loss of revenue.
Perhaps. But as mentioned, bringing suit requires time and costs money. Someone has to be motivated to spend the time and money to do it. What would be the motivation?
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Dennis

Perhaps. But as mentioned, bringing suit requires time and costs money. Someone has to be motivated to spend the time and money to do it. What would be the motivation?
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Dennis

The deterrence factor. By scareing the people to not make public domain titles in a country available, they get to keep the market for themselves (and at the prices they choose to charge.)

Ask Black Mask, or Conde Nast. Where there is a continuing revenue stream involved, there'll be lawyers. If somebody has a few million for the defending lawyers, I suppose we could talk....
I know the proprietor of Blackmask. There hadn't been a continuing revenue stream on the properties for years. CN went after him because they hoped to generate some by licensing the Shadow and Doc Savage characters for movie deals for multi-million dollar fees, and wanted to establish clear title to the rights. It took them seven years to get around to doing it. (Someone at CN's parent company decided to try to mine their IP for more revenue when their numbers weren't what they hoped for.)

CN "won", technically speaking, and Blackmask went down (to be reborn as Munseys, sans the offending content), but shot themselves in the foot longer term in the process. The discovery phase was...interesting, and various things CN would probably not have made public voluntarily (like the way they bought the rights from Dent's widow for a pittance) are now on the record.

What I find interesting is the chilling effect mentioned by Nate. I gather there has been no case law on the subject in Canada so far. (Is Canada a "loser pays" civil legal system?)
Good question. A lot of pressure like this is successful because those pressured either can't afford to or prefer not to spend the time and money defending themselves, regardless of whether they are technically in the right.
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Dennis

The deterrence factor. By scareing the people to not make public domain titles in a country available, they get to keep the market for themselves (and at the prices they choose to charge.)
And what demand do you see for the sort of titles normally uploaded here?

"OK, I filed suit and scared people, and I now have the market to myself at prices I set. The problem is, nobody wants to buy them!"

Unless someone sees some actual potential revenue in the titles, I don't see preemptive strikes to protect them as likely.
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Dennis

I was going to do a list of books, and that was on it. Another title would have been "Selected Recipes of the Sierra Nevadas" by George Donner. Also "The Uruguayan Air Force Cookbook". But then I decided to go for the simple and obscure. That's how my sense of humor works. Plus, some of the titles were unfair.


Another good title would be "My Brother, My Lunch.". Plus a little background music always enhances the reading experience.

And what demand do you see for the sort of titles normally uploaded here?

"OK, I filed suit and scared people, and I now have the market to myself at prices I set. The problem is, nobody wants to buy them!"

Unless someone sees some actual potential revenue in the titles, I don't see preemptive strikes to protect them as likely.
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Dennis

Let me rephrase my statement. Rather than a continuing revenue stream, replace with perceived copyright value worth litigating over. A continuing revenue stream is just the most obvious value. CN was looking at a potential big dollar sale for Doc Savage. Gone With The Wind still sells. So does Chandler and Hemingway. Kuttner and Cabell you might have no problems with (unless some publisher was just looking for a target). I'm just refusing to risk being that target. Feel free to volunteer....

Let me rephrase my statement. Rather than a continuing revenue stream, replace with perceived copyright value worth litigating over. A continuing revenue stream is just the most obvious value.
I made no assumptions about continuing revenue stream. The whole question was "perceived copyright value". I see the perceived copyright value of the majority of what gets uploaded to MobileRead as negligible.

CN was looking at a potential big dollar sale for Doc Savage. Gone With The Wind still sells. So does Chandler and Hemingway. Kuttner and Cabell you might have no problems with (unless some publisher was just looking for a target). I'm just refusing to risk being that target. Feel free to volunteer....
Various people have had no problems with Cabell and Kuttner, as witness the amount now available, like http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/c#a166

Chandler and Hemingway are tougher nuts, because they do still sell, and there's an incentive for those holding the rights to hold onto them.

Meanwhile, do as you wish. I just see less risk than you do.
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Dennis

What I find interesting is the chilling effect mentioned by Nate. I gather there has been no case law on the subject in Canada so far. (Is Canada a "loser pays" civil legal system?)

What I understand happened with "Gone With the Wind" is that, even though it's in the public domain in Canada, its US rights-holder (and it's still a major revenue earner, seemingly) basically "bullied" a number of sites into removing it on the (highly dubious) grounds that by not specifically blocking people from the US from downloading it, they were guilty of contributing to the act of copyright infringement. Basically a case of "we've got deeper pockets than you" in the lawyer-department. Pure "scare tactics", but who can afford to risk a lot of money proving it?

What I understand happened with "Gone With the Wind" is that, even though it's in the public domain in Canada, its US rights-holder (and it's still a major revenue earner, seemingly) basically "bullied" a number of sites into removing it on the (highly dubious) grounds that by not specifically blocking people from the US from downloading it, they were guilty of contributing to the act of copyright infringement. Basically a case of "we've got deeper pockets than you" in the lawyer-department. Pure "scare tactics", but who can afford to risk a lot of money proving it?
Intimidation by threat of suit is an old tactic, and not just in ebooks. Going to court takes time and money, and a lot of folks either don't have it or have better things to do with it. Easier to cave in.

And even if you have the money and inclination to fight it out, it's dangerous. This sounds like a court case could involve setting a precedent that might require sites not in the US to block US downloads of material like this. Best not go there...
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Dennis

This is the sort of rubber hose treatment that make me fight tooth-and-nail against US copyright laws....AARGH.

(Slaps self a couple of times....Takes a deep breath).

You know, if I were hosting a Canadian web site, I think I'd open a mail-order business that mails only to Canadian addresses, selling Gone With The Wind as a e-book on a CD in every format I could put it into.....

I don't see the point of listing things that are not in the public domain.

Distributed Proofreaders, the major supplier of Project Gutenberg, has several threads discussing which classics are still missing.

The one book that seems to appear on all the lists is:

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky (currently [May 2008] in progress at DP, in the first proofreading round)

Some of the rest (in no special order, comments by the volunteers who listed these):


Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann
The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann
Remembrance of things past by Marcel Proust
The Mathnawi by Jalalu'l-Din Rumi
The Bostan of Saadi (The Orchard) by Sheikh Saadi of Shiraz
The Death of Ivan Ilyich and other stories by Leo Tolstoy
The Bhagavad Gita
Metamorphoses by Ovid. PG does have a version of the metamorphoses, but a different (and arguably, much preferable) translation by Dryden is currently stuck in a queue somewhere at DP.
Fear and trembling by Soren Kierkegaard
La vita nuova by Dante Alighieri . (There's a particular edition I'd like to do. I've bought a copy for scanning the pages that Microsoft missed when they scanned it for TIA).
Pensées by Blaise Pascal. (PG already has an English translation. There's a particular French edition I'd like to do, one that includes the commentary by Voltaire. I have scans for the missing pages).
The social contract by Jean-Jacques Rousseau. On my list to do.


Further lists, including their availability at PG or their status at DP:

http://www.pgdp.net/wiki/100_Most_Influential_Books_Ever_Written
http://hume.vm.bytemark.co.uk/pgdp/top-books/


Disclaimers:

Just because a book is being processed at DP doesn't mean you will get to see it soon at PG. The process sometimes takes years.
Sometimes only the 'wrong' translations are available.

Now that I've done more research and created a few eBooks myself, I would like to suggest the following. In Samuel Pepys's day, these three books were highly esteemed:

1. Religio Medici by Sir Thomas Browne

2. Advice to a Son by Francis Osborne

3. Hudibras by Samuel Butler

#1 seems to be widely reproduced, including in the Harvard Classics.

#3 I made a nicely fromatted eBook recently - see uploads on this site.

#2 I have not yet found even any raw electic text to work from. Any advice or help on locating same would be much appreciated.

2. Advice to a Son by Francis Osborne

#2 I have not yet found even any raw electic text to work from. Any advice or help on locating same would be much appreciated.
See Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=WDc1AAAAMAAJ&dq=Advice+to+a+Son+by+Francis+Osborne&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=HCUKFXoM-y&sig=91fSG4CPxoHZUAwwW6LtZvrxxjg&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result), which offers a PDF. The PDF will be scanned page images, and you'll need to OCR and convert.
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Dennis

I am also looking for the VERY BEST, least typos, highest quality text for KJV Holy Bible. I don't want to redo something that has been done before and done well - but I now know how to make a really great multi-tier TOC for something like a bible that will be dynamite for a Sony Reader. I would like to have this good version of the text, so I can add this TOC. Nominations please.

I am also looking for the VERY BEST, least typos, highest quality text for KJV Holy Bible. I don't want to redo something that has been done before and done well - but I now know how to make a really great multi-tier TOC for something like a bible that will be dynamite for a Sony Reader. I would like to have this good version of the text, so I can add this TOC. Nominations please.
I don't have a specific text to recommend, but I can suggest a couple of places to look.

I run an open source Bible reader app on my Palm OS device called Palm Bible + (http://palmbibleplus.sourceforge.net/index.htm). PB+ has an assortment of different bible versions available fior it, and the website points at resources for others:
http://www.gospelshare.org/
http://thechan.com/

as well as pointers to instructions on getting texts into the PB+ format.

You might look there for source texts.

MR poster Alex Pruss is a professor of philosophy and a major contributor to PB+, and can likely provide pertinent suggestions. You might PM him. I believe his screen name is Pruss.
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Dennis

2. Advice to a Son by Francis Osborne

#2 I have not yet found even any raw electic text to work from. Any advice or help on locating same would be much appreciated.
See Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=WDc1AAAAMAAJ&dq=Advice+to+a+Son+by+Francis+Osborne&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=HCUKFXoM-y&sig=91fSG4CPxoHZUAwwW6LtZvrxxjg&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result), which offers a PDF. The PDF will be scanned page images, and you'll need to OCR and convert.

On the Google Books page, there's an option to view plain text. The "viewer" is some strange thing, but you can -- if you're careful -- copy/paste into a text document. I did this with a 200 page book. It was tedious and the viewer threw up some repeated text, but if you're patient, it may be easier than trying to OCR the PDF file. (Of course, I've never OCRer a PDF file, so it may be easier than I am thinking it would be.)

INTRODUCTION

ALTHOUGH Francis Osborne's Advice to a Son has ^
been reprinted in this century, the public seem to
have called for no further edition of his complete
works since 1722. In his own day he must have
made a considerable mark, not only among students
but also among contemporary men of letters.
Aubrey speaks of him as the friend of Hobbes,
and Dr. Blackbourne confirms this by setting out
a list of the patrons and friends of Hobbes, among
whom we find " Francis Osborne, Esq., whose
writings are sufficiently known," placed between "
Mr. Samuel Butler who wrote that admirable poem '••-
entitled Jfudibras " and " Edmund Waller of Beacons-
field."* Pepys in later years studied the Advice to
a Son with affectionate particularity and in that
strain of homely vanity which is one of the greatest
charms of the Diary records, October 19, 1661, "
I not being neat in clothes, which I find a great
fault in me, could not be so merry as otherwise, and
at all times I am and can be, when I am in good *
habitt, which makes me remember my father Osborne's
rule for a gentleman to spare in all things rather
than in that." And again, Jan. 27, 1663-4, details
a literary conversation with Sir William Petty at
a Coffeehouse, " who in discourse is, methinks, one
of the most rational men that ever I heard speak
with a tongue," saying, " that in all his life
these three books were the most esteemed and
generally cried up for wit in the world — Eeligio
Medici, Osborne's Advice to a Son, and Hudibras."
But the taste for Osborne's writings, perhaps
naturally, gave place to better things. Swift in
the Tatter ranks Osborne with some others, who "
being men of the Court and affecting the phrases
then in fashion, are often either not to be understood
or appear perfectly ridiculous." While Dr. Johnson,
being moved by Boswell's expression of liking for
his works, sums him up in one contemptuous phrase : "
A conceited fellow. Were a man to write so now,
the boys would throw stones at him." Boswell, however,
is not ready to accept this summary criticism
of his " favourite author."
Needs some cleaning up by perusing the PDF file, but if this is the only source available, you might spend 1/2 hour a day until the task is done.

On the Google Books page, there's an option to view plain text. The "viewer" is some strange thing, but you can -- if you're careful -- copy/paste into a text document. I did this with a 200 page book. It was tedious and the viewer threw up some repeated text, but if you're patient, it may be easier than trying to OCR the PDF file. (Of course, I've never OCRer a PDF file, so it may be easier than I am thinking it would be.)
Depends on the PDF file and the OCR software.

If the PDF contains text, it may not be necessary: unlocked PDFs will have an option to save the text to a file. You lose images, fonts, formatting and the like, but you get the text.

Other PDFs are simply collections of images. Those would need to be OCR scanned, if possible.. You would also need to do substantial editing and cleanup. No OCR software guesses right all the time, and image quality is a factor. Ligatures are particular problems.

The PDF in question is a collection of images of page scans, and the View as Text is the result of OCR.
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Dennis

I am also looking for the VERY BEST, least typos, highest quality text for KJV Holy Bible. I don't want to redo something that has been done before and done well - but I now know how to make a really great multi-tier TOC for something like a bible that will be dynamite for a Sony Reader. I would like to have this good version of the text, so I can add this TOC. Nominations please.

I would consult Deputy-Dawg. He has uploaded several versions of the Bible to our upload section, and is in holy orders. So he would be well-placed to advise you.

Sacred

Nearly all of the online versions of the KJV stem from the one in the Gutenberg Project. So unless you need something in a format other than what the GP has online I doubt if you will find one that will better meet your needs.

The GP is very fastidious in reviewing and correcting their online offerings. The kJV has been through a number of revisions since it was first put online sometime I believe in the late 1990's.

I look forward to seeing how you manage the TOC in your version. Frankly I could find nothing that works as well as PDF and with the new firmware the PDF versions load much faster than before (a few seconds instead of nearly 1.5 minutes) and since the new PDF reader reflows the the the type documents that are designed for the PRS505 are quite good.

It is perhaps worth noting in passing the interesting fact that the KJV is not in the public domain in the UK. It is protected by a "perpetual" Crown Copyright.

The GP is very fastidious in reviewing and correcting their online offerings. The kJV has been through a number of revisions since it was first put online sometime I believe in the late 1990's.


The stuff that goes that DP these days is pretty good, but it's certainly not true to say that all PG books are equally good. Many of the early book (which were typed in by hand) are truly dire, with literally thousands of errors. A particular "shocker" is the PG version of Dickens' "Oliver Twist", which has a typo in most sentences, many sentences and even paragraphs missing, and, in the worst case, about half a page of text omitted.

The early additions to PG are sadly in need of being re-done by DP.

I agree that I have found the quality of the PG stuff to vary widely. Is there a way I have yet to discover whereby the quality/pedigree of each document is signified? Given the nature of the PG initiative and its several decades of history, it is only reasonable and understandable that these differences exist. We just don't want any surprises.

I agree that I have found the quality of the PG stuff to vary widely. Is there a way I have yet to discover whereby the quality/pedigree of each document is signified? Given the nature of the PG initiative and its several decades of history, it is only reasonable and understandable that these differences exist. We just don't want any surprises.
Check to see if it's a Distributed Proofreaders submission. (Current stuff will be.) Quality has improved immeasurably since DP became the feed for Gutenberg editions. And books have credits indicating who was primarily responsible for producing them.

Also, check back periodically on important texts, and new revisions get posted. One thing I do wish for is a Change Log, so I can tell what got changed, and whether the new version merits grabbing a fresh download and conversion.
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Dennis

It is perhaps worth noting in passing the interesting fact that the KJV is not in the public domain in the UK. It is protected by a "perpetual" Crown Copyright.
And what must you do if you want to produce an edition of the KJV, in print or electronic form?
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Dennis

And what must you do if you want to produce an edition of the KJV, in print or electronic form?
The Queen's Printer (currently Cambridge University Press) produces the KJV in Britain. Though I believe that Collins is allowed to produce it in Scotland because the rules are different there.

There's a procedure you have to go through to apply to reproduce material that's under Crown Copyright. I've never done so myself, so I'm afraid I'm not sure what it is. Basically, though, unlike in the US where most material produced by the government is in the public domain, in the UK, most such material is covered by Crown Copyright, which lasts forever.