I just finished A Fire Upon The Deep by Vernor Vinge and wanted to give a very short review for those who haven't read this.

Absolutely brilliant! This is definitely one of the best real *science* fiction novels I've ever read and I'd say one of the best books from any genre I've ever read. There are countless plot summaries out there and many more comments that pick apart the book so I'll leave that out here.

Very, very good read - highly recommended. :)

Fully agreed. And the sequel A Deepness in the Sky is as good, if not better.

"A Deepness in the Sky" is a prequel.

I've heard mixed things about the prequel - should I ignore what I've heard and just read it now while _A Fire Upon The Deep_ is fresh in my mind?

I think it's very good. I recommend it.

I think both books could easily stand alone. My preference was Fire Upon the Deep, but Deepness was also good. As a matter of fact, a week or so ago when I was cleaning the bookshelves, I decided Deepness could not be rehabilitated and tossed it out. (I have a history of cruelty to books, slicing them into many smaller volumes in order to make them easier to hold.)

I think maybe it is time to get Fire and re-read it. Thanks for the reminder!

I think both books could easily stand alone. My preference was Fire Upon the Deep, but Deepness was also good. As a matter of fact, a week or so ago when I was cleaning the bookshelves, I decided Deepness could not be rehabilitated and tossed it out. (I have a history of cruelty to books, slicing them into many smaller volumes in order to make them easier to hold.)
*shudders*

I don't think I could bring myself to cut up a book I liked. That's just wrong - wrong I tell you! :p

*shudders*

I don't think I could bring myself to cut up a book I liked. That's just wrong - wrong I tell you! :p

Even worse.... I slap them back together with a rubber band, then usually either share or donate. The first time a new friends gets "gifted" with one, I always have to explain about the sliced/dogeared/crumpled/swollen from getting soaked condition.

But the words still taste the same!

Speaking of Fire Upon the Deep, Nate's pup looks like I imagine the pups in the story.

Hehe I have a totally different image in mind for the Tines :)

Hehe I have a totally different image in mind for the Tines :)

Do tell?

Speaking of Fire Upon the Deep, Nate's pup looks like I imagine the pups in the story.

I should have named her "Tines".

She has recently developed a new endearing habit. She decided she likes to sleep on top of my blankets instead of beneath. The only problem with this is that when her feet get cold she tries to shove them under me. This is not a good way to be woken up at 3 am.

Well...

* * * MILD SPOILER ALERT * * *

See there were enough comments about the elongated necks plus remember that at first Johanna thought they looked much more like giant rats (R.O.U.S. anyone? hehe) than dogs. So I really made myself stop and picture them instead of falling into picturing medium sized dogs. :) By the end of the book there I really wanted to have a long conversation with Peregrine (the Pilgrim) because he would be so fascinating to talk with.

Oh and totally branching off the main conversation here (forced pun, watch for it!) how 'bout the Skroderiders? :) I've never been so emotionally involved with a rolling, talking plant! I realized several times that I kept picturing them too small! What sold that point strongest to me was near the very end of the book...



* * * HEAVIER SPOILER * * *

...when Blueshell carried Amdijefri (all 8 members of Amdi's pack plus Jefri) on his skrode. That really tells you just how big the Skroderiders must be. I kept picturing these little potted ferns that were only a couple feet tall, but these guys have to be more like 5 feet or more tall *plus* the height of the skrode and the width has to be at least 5 feet square I'd think, maybe more. I don't remember Vinge ever telling us exact dimensions though.

* * * END SPOILERS * * *

Ok enough rambling for me :)

Both great books, both Hugo Award winners. I actually started reading science fiction again after stumbling into "A Fire Upon The Deep." Here I am now, 3 e-book devices later and two hundred books down the line...Thanks, Vernor!

I've been looking for an ebook version of this for some time. Anyone know where to get it (nonDarknet)?

Fictionwise has both titles in MSReader.

Hey Nate, I have a question....

I can usually unlock pdf's and convert them to something my reader will handle. What exactly does it mean by "secure" pdf? Or would it be better to get one of the other two versions and try to convert it?

THANKS!

"Secure"means the PDF has DRM. I don't know of any widely available method to remove the DRM.

Oddly, these books are mentioned on the Baen Books Webscriptions site, but listed as "not currently available". But if, like my dad, you have a free disability subscription to the site, they are both downloadable in several non-DRM formats.

Fans of Vinge may like to know, if they don't know already, that his latest novel, "Rainbows End", is available for free here http://vrinimi.org/rainbowsend.html in html format. Haven't read it yet, so I can't comment.

Thanks for that link!

*shudders*

I don't think I could bring myself to cut up a book I liked. That's just wrong - wrong I tell you! :p
A long time ago, I worked for a library. One of the chores I still remember with a shudder was being told to destroy a set of the Encyclopedia Britannica. It had been badly damaged by patrons, and was being thrown out and replaced, but it still felt like sacrilege.
______
Dennis

A long time ago, I worked for a library. One of the chosres I still remember with a shudder was being told to destroy a set of the Encyclopedia Britannica. It had been badly damaged by patrons, and was being thrown out and replaced, but it still felt like sacrilege.
______
Dennis

i don't think i would have been able to do it. once when i returned a very old, beat-up, dusty, slightly sticky book* to the library, the librarian took it rather gingerly between 2 fingers and said something like "no hurry to return this one, i think it's going straight to the trash." i was shocked speechless with horror for a moment. instantly i regretted having turned the book in to meet such a cruel fate.


*it was already in that state when i borrowed it, i hasten to add.

Try to find a copy of this (http://www.netfunny.com/hugo.html). You may be able to track a copy down, even though they seem to be rare. I was lucky enough to order one in 1993.

Try to find a copy of this (http://www.netfunny.com/hugo.html). You may be able to track a copy down, even though they seem to be rare. I was lucky enough to order one in 1993.
I have one. The Science Fiction Writers of America has an Emergency Medical Fund, to benefit members who incur medical expenses and aren't covered by insurance (like, most freelancers...). EMF Benefit auctions are held at various SF cons around the country. A copy of it was donated to a con a couple of years back as an auction item to raise EMF funds, and I bid and won. Finding something I could use to read the RTF versions of the works included on my PDA was a bit of a challenge, but they are a happy part of my portable library.
______
Dennis

Oddly, these books are mentioned on the Baen Books Webscriptions site, but listed as "not currently available". But if, like my dad, you have a free disability subscription to the site, they are both downloadable in several non-DRM formats.

Fans of Vinge may like to know, if they don't know already, that his latest novel, "Rainbows End", is available for free here http://vrinimi.org/rainbowsend.html in html format. Haven't read it yet, so I can't comment.
What sort of disabilities does Baen recognize?

Fictionwise has both titles in MSReader.

Woah I missed that completely. I thought I had looked there first!

What sort of disabilities does Baen recognize?

Just about anything that makes it difficult for one to read. The original program was inspired by interaction with Jimmy Grimes (now deceased) who had tremendous physical problems reading paper books. His situation also inspired ReadAssist.org. They're really quite flexible.

btw, the reason Vernor Vinge's books are marked "not currently available" is that there was a shortlived experiment between Tor and Baen, where Tor books were to be released by Webscriptions. High mucketymucks at Tor's parent company pulled it back for further negotiations, but not until some people had already purchased it. Baen keeps it available for those who bought it, but not for new sales. (on the good side, there are new high mucketymucks, and negotiations are ongoing again. There may eventually be more Tor Webscriptions.)

btw, the reason Vernor Vinge's books are marked "not currently available" is that there was a shortlived experiment between Tor and Baen, where Tor books were to be released by Webscriptions. High mucketymucks at Tor's parent company pulled it back for further negotiations, but not until some people had already purchased it. Baen keeps it available for those who bought it, but not for new sales. (on the good side, there are new high mucketymucks, and negotiations are ongoing again. There may eventually be more Tor Webscriptions.)
As I recall, the stumbling block had been the fact that Webscriptions books are released sans DRM. The deal was a go until someone at Tor parent company Holtzbrink realized this and pulled the plug.

I believe Holtzbrink got a new CEO who is opposed to DRM, and reversed the decision, but reinstating the deal is a more complicated matter. It looks like Holtzbrink is trying to unify its US imprints under the Macmillan umbrella.

And Tor sister company St. Martins is dipping its toe into the digital publishing waters, recently releasing the first two mysteries by Julia Spencer-Fleming as free downloads in PDF (both), Amazon Kindle (The first) and Sony Reader (both) formats, as a promotion for her third book, and to get folks to sign up for a mailing list.

Offhand, I'd say the whole bunch are groping for a coherent digital strategy, and it will be interesting to see what shape it finally takes.
______
Dennis

I just finished _A Fire Upon The Deep_ by Vernor Vinge and wanted to give a very short review for those who haven't read this.

Absolutely brilliant! This is definitely one of the best real *science* fiction novels I've ever read and I'd say one of the best books from any genre I've ever read. There are countless plot summaries out there and many more comments that pick apart the book so I'll leave that out here.

Very, very good read - highly recommended. :)

I have to agree - this is a stunning piece of writing.

Best Wishes
David

And Tor sister company St. Martins is dipping its toe into the digital publishing waters, recently releasing the first two mysteries by Julia Spencer-Fleming as free downloads in PDF (both), Amazon Kindle (The first) and Sony Reader (both) formats, as a promotion for her third book, and to get folks to sign up for a mailing list.
Amazon offered Kindle editions of the first two books in the series for free -- which I "purchased" on 6 June. This was a promotion in advance of releasing the 6th book in the series. I have since purchased Kindle editions of #3 and #4, but I'm stymied because #5 is not available for the Kindle.

I wrote directly to Ms. Spencer-Fleming and she replied with the e-mail address of a contact at St. Martin's Press. I promptly wrote to this contact and have not received a reply.

Now, I find it easier to forgive TOR for giving us book #1 in lots of series with *none* of the follow-on books available. I can't figure out why in the world St. Martin has chosen to release 1-4 and 6 but not #5. Makes no sense at all.

Reverend Clare Fergusson series:
1. In the Bleak Midwinter (2002)
2. A Fountain Filled with Blood (2003)
3. Out of the Deep I Cry (2004)
4. To Darkness and to Death (2005)
5. All Mortal Flesh (2006)
6. I Shall Not Want (2008)

Amazon offered Kindle editions of the first two books in the series for free -- which I "purchased" on 6 June. This was a promotion in advance of releasing the 6th book in the series. I have since purchased Kindle editions of #3 and #4, but I'm stymied because #5 is not available for the Kindle.

I wrote directly to Ms. Spencer-Fleming and she replied with the e-mail address of a contact at St. Martin's Press. I promptly wrote to this contact and have not received a reply.

Now, I find it easier to forgive TOR for giving us book #1 in lots of series with *none* of the follow-on books available. I can't figure out why in the world St. Martin has chosen to release 1-4 and 6 but not #5. Makes no sense at all.

Reverend Clare Fergusson series:
1. In the Bleak Midwinter (2002)
2. A Fountain Filled with Blood (2003)
3. Out of the Deep I Cry (2004)
4. To Darkness and to Death (2005)
5. All Mortal Flesh (2006)
6. I Shall Not Want (2008)

You do know Kindle has them all now, right Elsi?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_kinc?url=node%3D154606011&field-keywords=All+Mortal+Flesh&x=0&y=0

Now, I find it easier to forgive TOR for giving us book #1 in lots of series with *none* of the follow-on books available. I can't figure out why in the world St. Martin has chosen to release 1-4 and 6 but not #5. Makes no sense at all.
I'll be interested in hearing what St. Martins has to say, if they ever get back to you. That is truely odd. Best case, they do plan to release #5, and it just hasn't wended its way through the ebook production process yet. (One thing I'm curious about is who actually prepares the Kindle versions Amazon offers. My guess is Amazon, not the original publisher.)

I don't see anything to "forgive" in Tor's offer. They stated that the freebie ebooks were promotion for the new Tor.com site. They never said they were anything else, or that they indicated any future direction Tor planned to take in ebooks. I agree that it would have been splendid if Tor actually had the remaining books in ebook form for series they offered the first of in the promotion. But I wasn't angry about it. I can't justify getting angry about not getting something the other party never committed to supply in the first place.
______
Dennis

Amazon offered Kindle editions of the first two books in the series for free -- which I "purchased" on 6 June. This was a promotion in advance of releasing the 6th book in the series. I have since purchased Kindle editions of #3 and #4, but I'm stymied because #5 is not available for the Kindle.

Now, I find it easier to forgive TOR for giving us book #1 in lots of series with *none* of the follow-on books available. I can't figure out why in the world St. Martin has chosen to release 1-4 and 6 but not #5. Makes no sense at all.

You do know Kindle has them all now, right Elsi?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_kinc?url=node%3D154606011&field-keywords=All+Mortal+Flesh&x=0&y=0

All RIGHT! They finally filled in the gap. I'll be sure to buy it to reward them for following through. (I also clicked the "I want this book on my Kindle" link on the page for the paper book.)

(One thing I'm curious about is who actually prepares the Kindle versions Amazon offers. My guess is Amazon, not the original publisher.)

Me too. These particular books are in the infamous "Topaz" format and are full of eggregious errors. I'll take some screen captures to show you what I mean. I plan to send some feedback to Amazon's Kindle support to indicate that these books have such poor production quality. Since I did enjoy the stories, I'm not going to clamor for my money back, but I would appreciate getting an updated & improved copy.

Me too. These particular books are in the infamous "Topaz" format and are full of eggregious errors. I'll take some screen captures to show you what I mean. I plan to send some feedback to Amazon's Kindle support to indicate that these books have such poor production quality. Since I did enjoy the stories, I'm not going to clamor for my money back, but I would appreciate getting an updated & improved copy.
Sounds like an automated conversion from poor source. I'd like to know what they started with.

For the most part, I've been pleased with ebooks I've seen from commercial sources. I did see one amusing bit, in a book from the Baen Free Library, that had things like author's notes to himself still in the text. A query revealed that this ebook had been generated from an Advance Reading Copy (uncorrected galley proofs) in order to get it out in time for inclusion on a CD to be bound into the hardcover.

I wasn't unhappy at all. The oddities didn't really affect the readability of the ebook, and the glimpses into the writing process were fun. But it stuck out by example: normally, Baen's ebook production is first rate.

It's a reason why I'm hoping ePub succeeds as a standard format. Not for the end user, necessarily, but for the publisher. ePub contains all of the elements needed for an ebook, and should be a good base from which to convert to whatever format the end user will actually read. And it should be possible to automate that conversion, so that once a good quality ePub version exists, the rest can happen automatically.
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Dennis

Am I really dumb, or did other people have difficulty with the online copy of Rainbow's End ? There were a number of links, but no text.

I'd be willing to buy the book, but where?

Point of Clarification: When I do find a book that I want besides Connect.com or the marvelous collexion here at Mobile Read, what's the best format for the PRS-500?

Am I really dumb, or did other people have difficulty with the online copy of Rainbow's End ? There were a number of links, but no text.

I'd be willing to buy the book, but where?
Vernor seems to have taken the electronic version down.

PM me with an email address.
______
Dennis

You do know Kindle has them all now, right Elsi?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_kinc?url=node%3D154606011&field-keywords=All+Mortal+Flesh&x=0&y=0
More eBook nonsense. All the other eBook shops that have her eBooks only have two of them. This is a total farce. It's enough to make me want to tell people who ask what to buy for an electronic book reader to say nothing at all and just stick to paper books. We are getting shafted. Why is it we cannot have complete series in formats we want?